McStays Episode 5: The Best Friend

0:00Hi, this is Ashenshing here with another weekly episode of our latest True Crime series from 2020 and ABC audio. What happened to the mixed days? Remember you can get new episodes weekly on Tuesdays if you follow what happened to the mixed days on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or whatever you're listening now. Or you can hear the entire series right now, add free by subscribing to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today. Now here's the next episode of what happened to the mixed days. I want to hire a private investigator for some folks who are in the best. ABC Tuesday, TV's hottest PI is back. You sure you're ready to take on a serial killer? It's like a dozen more likely explanations other than serial killer. All right, maybe none of it does. In Florida, crime has no offseason. I just heard you were shot at today with a rocket launcher. Well missed.

1:00RJ Decker from his Tuesday 10-9th Central on ABC next day on Hulu. When Kathy Jarvis heard that Joseph McStay was confirmed dead, she says she could hardly believe it. When the news came that they had found Joseph's family, it was hard. It was hard to process that. It doesn't feel real. You know, just kind of, I can't be them. Like I even called Joseph's phone or something like, no, this can't be happening. You've got to come back. Kathy had known Joseph for a few years. She said she met him through her partner at the time. I'm Chase Merritt's ex-girlfriend and mother of his three children. Back when the McStays had gone missing, Kathy and Chase were still together. They had one teenager and two kids under 10. We were living in Rancho Cucamonga, the city on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

2:04Kathy says that Joseph would often drive their way to have dinner with Chase, and talk about upcoming projects. She says she got to know Joseph well. After the McStays went missing, she said that Chase wanted to be the for Joseph's extended family. But after the bodies were found in the desert, and the investigation into their murders began, Kathy says people in the McStays inner circle began to look at Chase differently. I feel like stories changed. Chase was a good guy and then all of a sudden he was submitted they would think murdered their son or their brother or their family. Kathy says the idea just didn't make sense to her. Why would Chase kill someone who was giving him work? Joseph and Chase were talking about plans for the future. Like there was lucrative contracts coming.

3:07Why would you put that in jeopardy? It just doesn't make any sense. But San Bernardino shares detectives had come to think otherwise. They now believe Chase married did have a reason to kill Joseph McStay. For them, it came down to what investigators believed happened on February 4, 2010. When they said a dangerous confrontation had led to irreversible decisions. But who is Chase married? The man that detectives now felt was capable of killing an entire family. From ABC Audio in 2020, I'm Ash and saying, and this is what happened to the McStays. Episode 5. The best friend. The best friend.

4:11Kathy and Chase met in the early 1990s. And according to Kathy, they were together. Off and on for around 20 years. They've been broken up for over a decade now. But Kathy still remembers Chase as being a good person. Even if he's far from perfect. Chase is a little arrogant. He's creative. He'll tell you he's athletic. He'll boast about how athletic he is. But the first time I saw him be athletic was at a mountain bike race. And he hopped on the mountain bike and he was about to jump over this little curb and he hit it and face planted. And he just jumps up and he's like, oh, you know, he's just like a big dork. He is funny. He's goofy. He has a good sense of humor. We laughed a lot.

5:12Kathy said that the day they first saw each other, it was an instant attraction. I actually met Chase at a country western bar. He was there playing pool. I was there to dance. Kathy described Chase wearing a cowboy hat. And said that he was in shape. She said he looked like a big tough cowboy. Who could take care of her? I happen to be sitting near the dance floor by the pool tables when he hit me with his pool cube. And I kind of turned around like, hello. And he just had no clue. He just didn't even acknowledge me. So I was like, what an idiot. So I'm like, I turned back around. I was like, okay, whatever. By the end of the night, I was on the dance floor with somebody else. And Chase was standing at the dance floor waiting, just standing there watching. And when I walked off, he was like, oh, we should go get something to eat.

6:15You know, let's talk. And I was like, okay. Not long after they started dating, Kathy said Chase took her to meet his family. They lived east of LA. Just over the San Gabriel Mountains in the Mojave Desert. At 3,000 feet elevation, the high desert is dotted with sagebrush and tuner per trees. Small towns are scattered across the landscape. Chase grew up in Hisperia, California. At that time, like the 60s, early 70s, it was, you know, pretty much the middle nowhere. The next town over from Hisperia is Victorville, where the mixed-stays bodies were found, just outside city limits. Kathy says that some of Chase's family still lived in the desert, including a sister, Juanita. When Kathy says he was especially close to,

7:18according to Kathy, Chase was from a big family. There were eight brothers and sisters. As Chase grew up, he was kind of the one that, you know, his family could lean on. If they needed something, like he would be there, he's just that sibling that I feel like they all could rely on. Over the years, Chase had some troubles with the law. Between 1977 and 2001, he had several convictions for burglary. Kathy says that when they started dating, Chase seemed focused on pursuing a career in welding. He was the skill his father had taught him. Early in their relationship, Chase set up a metal workshop in Kathy's garage. He started making these metal art wall hangings. And when I saw them, I was like, wow, I mean, that's pretty cool. Soon, she says the couple started their own metal work business.

8:21Chase was making one of a kind waterfalls. And Kathy was helping with designs. But according to Kathy, Chase could be difficult to work with. I would tell him which way I think it should be. I think it'd be more marketable if he did this color or that stone or something. And he would just not listen to me and do it his own way. Kathy said there was another reason that she and Chase would butt heads at work. Finances. Oh gosh, Chase was terrible with money. Kathy says Chase was a once what he wants when he wants it kind of guy. We had a boat. We had a couple of boats for a while. We had jet skis. We had things we didn't need. Around 2006, Chase met and started working with Joseph McStay. Chase told San Bernardino detectives that Joseph was looking for a welder. To build a fountain for him, someone recommended Chase.

9:25He said that soon, use the only person that Joseph would turn to for custom work. Kathy says where Chase's stubborn streak had bothered her, Joseph was easy going enough for both of them. He was likeable and good with people. This just seemed to fit. Joseph was really smart. He was great with customers. They had a great collaboration. Soon, Kathy says Chase and Joseph's business relationship blossomed into a personal one. Joseph was his best friend. I mean, he didn't have a whole lot of close contacts. I mean, we didn't have a large friend group. We didn't go out and do things we didn't hang out with people necessarily. So, the fact that he spent time outside of work with Joseph was kind of a big deal because he didn't really do that with many people. Investigators learned that by early 2010, Chase and Joseph had been working together for a few years.

10:31And the company had a couple of big contracts coming up. On February 4th, Chase said he had a meeting with Joseph at Chick-fil-A. Kathy says that afterwards, Chase spent the evening at their home. Looking back, there was a detail about that night at home with Chase that bothered Kathy. A phone call, she says Chase received. I happen to see the caller ID when it rang. And I told him, Joseph's calling, and he's like, I'll talk to him tomorrow, whatever. So, the next day, when he couldn't get a hold of Joseph, and he told me that, and then the day after, I was concerned. I know he was trying to keep it cool. He didn't want to overstep the boundaries. But I was getting concerned, and I told him, I told Chase, what if that was Joseph's last call to you?

11:32What if he needed your help and you didn't answer the phone? It started weighing heavy on me then. If you can't get a hold of him, that's unusual. We should do something. You should call the police. You should. That's when he reached out to the family. The rest of the story we've heard before, Chase spoke with Joseph's brother on the 9th of February, and said that he hadn't heard from Joseph for a few days. Kathy was interviewed by San Bernardino Detectives in October 2014, and they asked her about the night of February 4th. The investigators asked her if she might have been mistaken about the date of the call she said she saw from Joseph. She admitted to Detectives that she could have been. But she insisted, both to San Bernardino Detectives and to ABC News, that Chase had been at home with her on the evening of February 4th.

12:34By the time they would call Chase Merritt in for his interview, Detectives had come to believe that Chase wasn't at home with Kathy that evening. And they set out to prove it. Today I want to tell you about an exciting new deal from our friends at CozyEarth. Take a moment and close your eyes, and think back to the best night of sleep you ever had. Did it feel like you'd never sleep that well again? Well, good news. You can give yourself an amazing night of sleep every night by upgrading your bedding to CozyEarth. CozyEarth offers luxury bedding at an incredible price. Their ultra soft, temperature-regulating sheets, coverlets, and duvet covers are the perfect companion for a night of uninterrupted relaxation. Their sheets come in all different colors and stripes, so there's something for everyone, whether you're doing a big fall refresh of your master bedroom, or updating a guest room in time for the holidays. And as comfy as they are on day one, they only get better from there,

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14:38Unbelievable. And now NFL network is on the ESPN app. More football, more coverage, more ways to watch. Football's on. All season long on ESPN and streaming on the ESPN app. When Chase Marrett sat down with the San Bernardino detectives in October 2014, they had been building a picture of what they thought had happened on that night of February 4th. Four years before. What happened that night? Where did you go? I think I already heard the answer. What I'm asking for you to fill in the blank and explain to me what happened. I don't, I don't regard being anywhere except those. Probably help.

15:51The fact that when you look at the financials and some of the emails going back and forth, they weren't good. Investigators thought that Joseph had met with Chase to confront him. We believed that Joseph and Chase met that morning at Chick-fil-A. There was an interaction between them and that that meeting resulted in Chase being let go of the business. Detective thought that Chase got fired that day. And the reason, it felt that it all came down to money. So when we looked into Chase's finances, we found that he was just horrible with his personal finances. He had a gambling issue where he would go to casinos and spend a lot of money. Investigators believed Chase owed money to Joseph from previous projects that worked on together. And according to their case report, they alleged he'd also been forging checks from him.

16:55It was an email sent from Joseph to chase a few days before their Chick-fil-A meeting. Chase had shared it with San Diego detectives back in 2010. This email had several rows of figures. Big ones. Tens of thousands of dollars. Which Chase had told detectives were related to projects he and Joseph were working on together. He said the figures were a running tab of finances between the two men. But when San Bernardino investigators read this email, it looked to them like a tally of debt that Joseph said Chase owed him to the tune of $42,000. And investigators believed that Chase had been writing checks to himself. From the business account that Joseph used, several times in the days leading up to their meeting, they also came to believe that Joseph had noticed Chase moving money around. Even as Joseph is driving up to meet Chase, he's on the phone with Union Bank.

17:59Now we don't know what the context of those calls were, but we know he's checking, he called at least twice Union Bank as he's driving up to meet Chase. When detectives interviewed Chase in late October of 2014, they told him what they believed. No, Chase told detectives. Chase was adamant that he and Joseph were on good terms. And that his gambling wasn't an issue. He told detectives that he wasn't stealing from Joseph, that he wasn't fired by him. Continued to insist that the meeting at the Chick-fil-A wasn't anything out of the ordinary. But investigators suspected that the working relationship between the two men had deteriorated to the point where Joseph was ready to sever their partnership.

19:03And police believed there had been some kind of argument between them. Investigators thought that after the Chick-fil-A meeting, Chase had something dangerous, a motive. According to phone records, after the two men met that day, Joseph's phone began to move. Pinging off a series of cell towers near the highway, investigators believed that Joseph was going south, back to his home in Faubera. That he arrived there, just after 4pm. Joseph's phone made one more call that went through to Chase's at 5.48pm. The call lasted about three minutes. Then, according to the police report, it appeared that Chase's phone shut off for three and a half hours. According to authorities, during this window, several calls came into Chase's phone, when it made no contact with any cell towers.

20:07Detectives thought it was consistent with the phone being turned off. Authorities suspected that Chase's phone was purposefully turned off, or put in airplane mode. Detectives had theorized about what they believed had happened in this three and a half hour period. How and when the mixed stays had died. Investigators believed that Chase followed Joseph McStay back to Faubera. I believe it was a continuation of that contentious meeting in the beginning. Down there, they're at Faubera, an argument occurs. It turns physical where Joseph and Chase get into an altercation. Joseph and Chase are either fighting or Chase murders him right there. And then at that point, Chase is committed and follows through with the rest of the family. Detectives believed that Chase killed Joseph, Summer, Gianni, and Joey Jr.

21:12According to the investigators report, detective spoke to a friend of the McStays who'd been helping them redecorate their house. The friend told them that he'd been using a sledgehammer to close paint cans in the McStays home days before they disappeared. San Bernardino detectives noticed that the hammer was missing from crime scene photographs. And a paint splattered sledgehammer had later been found in one of the graves. Investigators believed that Chase had used it to murder the McStays in their own home. Investigators said that after killing the family, Chase logged onto the McStays home computer and created a $4,000 check made out to himself. Although that check, they said, was never printed. It looked to them like further evidence of Chase being inside the Faubera house. Chase told San Bernardino detectives that he and Joseph hadn't argued that day.

22:12And he hadn't gone to the McStays house that evening. And that he hadn't killed them. You want to shoot every night? I did not drag the Faubera on the floor. You did drag the Faubera on the floor. You were down there and found it was on the floor. What you were saying obviously is not going to change what I'm saying. Definitely is not going to change. While detectives did not have physical evidence tying Chase to the murders or the alleged crime scene at the McStays home, they believed they could place him close to where the bodies were buried in the desert. And to investigate that, they spoke to someone who knew him well. From the dope game to the rap game. A new series from the streets of Snowfall. I can't not do this. Ethics presents the drop of Snowfall saga.

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24:15There's a headline every 30 minutes for our show, I'm pretty sure. Welcome to Get Real. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch. This is the show for the Reality TV Obsessed. You thought the show was crazy, living it was crazy, though. I was dripping sweat for even stars. For the stars and fans of the Hulu Realityverse, do you think she's stirring the pot to secure a place on the show? Find and listen to Get Real, wherever you get your podcasts, and stream new episodes Thursdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. Terms apply. When Chase Merritt was interviewed by San Bernardino Detectives in late October 2014, he denied killing the McStays, and he denied bearing them in the desert on February 6th. Why would people put you up in the high desert on February 6th? I'm worried about it. I'm not the only one that I'd ever go to the high desert is for my brothers, my sisters.

25:18Detectives claimed that they knew from his cell records this phone had hanged off a tower in the desert, and they alleged that this particular tower was in an area near the McStays graves. San Bernardino Detective Ryan Smith was aware of Chase's family in the desert. In fact, nine days before Chase Merritt was interviewed, Smith had gone to speak to Chase's sister, Juanita. Juanita lived a few miles from where the bodies were buried, near the base of Courtside Mountain. On top of the mountain was the cell tower that police set, Chase's phone, Pingdoth, on February 6th, 2010. So the interesting thing about the Courtside Tower is it's right on that mountain, on the back side or the west side of that mountain is Juanita Merritt's residence. On the north side or northeast side is kind of the desert in the 15th freeway where the McStays bodies were buried.

26:20To determine if Chase's phone had pinged off that cell tower, because he was visiting his sister, Detective Ryan Smith went to investigate. He drove up to visit Juanita. By then, it had been over four and a half years since the McStays weren't missing. Smith met Juanita at her home. He sat outside and talked. We just kind of asked what what the relationship was like, and then we went into what is her relationship with Chase. Does Chase come to visit? When was the last time he came to visit? Smith recorded their conversation. Asked Juanita if she'd seen Chase up in the desert around February 2010. Juanita said, no. Chase at that time when he was with Joe never came up here. That's why I was going to ask. Can you remember it all? You can't even hardly visit. I can remember one time he visited.

27:21What about how long before? I mean, in five years, I hadn't seen him. So that's considerable. He didn't come up to the desert because he works 24-7. Smith asked Juanita if she and Chase had talked about the McStays. Did you guys ever have that conversation? Ask him what he thinks happens? I asked him, Blaine Blanky, you know, Clue. He was devastated. He lost everything. Juanita told police that Chase hadn't visited her around the time of the McStays disappearance. So a little over a week later, when he offered that as his only possible explanation for why his phone had pinged in the desert, the detectives were skeptical. In fact, five hours into their interview, Chase had been unable to give the detectives any new explanations that might have eased their suspicions about him. There was no explanation as to why he was there.

28:23We believed we had enough to prove that he was the only person who had the means, the motive, and the opportunity to commit this crime. What even should happen to the person that killed McStay family? I think they should get killed. Exactly the same way they got killed. What do you mean? I think they should get killed. I think they should be executed somehow. Well, I concluded how they want they should get killed. If nobody that kills two little kids, it shouldn't be alive. My opinion. Is that trouble you? Of course it does. You need anyone with a heart that would tear on your heart, right? That's crazy. A little boy.

29:24By this point, the detectives sitting across from him, felt confident it was Chase who killed this family. Chase left the interview room a free man, but he wouldn't stay that way for long. About two weeks later, he got some visitors at this place of work. The police. They'd come to arrest him for the murders of the McStay family. Now police finally felt they had an answer to the question of what happened to the McStays. Good morning. We'd like to get started. Is everyone ready? Two days after Chase's arrest, the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department called a press conference. Charles Chase Merritt was identified as the suspect responsible for the death of Joseph, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph McStay. There's no information to suggest there were any other suspects involved in this crime.

30:28Merritt was arrested on Wednesday, November 5th without incident, transported and booked at our West Valley Detention Center, where he is currently being held. Susan Blake, Joseph McStay's mother, was in the briefing room that day. She stood to say a few words to the gathered press. Small and blonde, she was a head shorter than the sheriff's deputies behind her. Good morning. My son and his family was a beautiful family that did not deserve this. Joey was so generous and kind to so many people. I always kept hope we'd find him and then I received the phone call. And now there's a little more chart journey. I need justice from the law and the courts and get to talk to the judge. And most of all, justice upstairs, the my lovely family. Thank you.

31:31For the family that had waited so long, the wheels of justice could now finally turn. The San Bernardino District Attorney told the press that Chase Merritt was facing four murder charges and that the brutality of the case hadn't gone unnoticed by prosecutors. I don't need to tell you that this is a cold and callous murder of an entire family. We follow the special circumstance of multiple murders. We'll make him eligible for the death penalty. Chase Merritt would said he hoped for the death penalty for whoever killed the McStay family. Would now face a courtroom in the prospect of capital punishment himself. Everyone's made him out to be the monster that he's not. But Kathy Jarvis, Chase's ex, says he was being made into escape goat.

32:32Somebody murdered this family, but it wasn't Chase. Chase Merritt maintained his innocence. And soon you would have to fight for his life. What happens to the McStays is a production of ABC audio in 2020, hosted by me, Ashin Singh, produced by Madeline Wood, Vika Aronson, Audrey Mostek, and Kiar Powell. With help from Sabrina Fang and Camille Peterson, edited by Gianna Palmer, our supervising producer is Susie Lu, music by Evan Viola, scoring by Kiar Powell, mixing by Evan Viola and Bob Mallory. Special thanks to Katie Dendas, Janice Johnson, Chris Donovan, Joseph Rhee, Sonny Andrew, Melissa Stolar, Zenderson Morris, Tom Burman, Indra D'Alessa Hume, and Blue Brownie.

33:34Josh Cohen is our director of podcast programming. Evan McNath is our executive producer. Can't wait for more. Listen to the next episode ahead of everyone else, add free. Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today. A new podcast series from ABC audio in 2020 goes inside a case that has captivated the nation. To many people, Luigi Mangione is a modern day Robin Hood. People were cheering the demise of this person they'd never met. It was a father of two and a husband and had a life and was just doing a job. From the manhunt, ending in a McDonald's in Altuna, Pennsylvania, to what authorities are saying about a possible motive, I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer.

34:34Listen to Burn in a Proof, Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts. An all-new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is now streaming on Hulu in Hulu on Disney Plus. Four years ago, we were just making take talks, but it feels like there are no friendships left in mom talk. You act like you're better than everyone, you're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. There's so much the public doesn't know.