Matt Slick Live

0:00The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. Found online at calm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turns a Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. And you're listening to Matt Slick Live if, as usual, if you want to give me a call, it's easy. All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. I think 2276 spells C-A-R-M. So I mean, somebody can check at that. I think it is. Remember that a long time ago. 877-207-Carme, the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. All right, so we have nobody waiting right now. If you want to email me, that's easy to do as well.

1:02Just enter an email to info at calm.orginfo, at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And we can get to everything you need. We can do all kinds of stuff. And an interesting call today. And so a friend of mine from San Diego, he should live in San Diego for years. And there's a gentleman who, young believer. And we talk on the phone today. I'll give you the generics and stuff like that. And it raised some interesting issues. Raised some good stuff I thought worth discussing. There are things called deliverance ministries. And we're talking about some of that. Deliverance ministries where a lot of times, they will, someone who has this word of knowledge, word of wisdom, they can just say they can know stuff. And what they'll do is sometimes they'll say, well, you have a spirit of whatever it is. A demonic presence of.

2:03And in order to break it, we have to do a deliverance. And a lot of times what they'll do is say that the means of deliverance is, well, casting out demonic forces from the actual individual, from the Christian, supposedly a Christian who's possessed. And some people, they're smarts and they say, no, you can't be possessed by demonic forces if you're Christian. And then what happens a lot of times is people will say, well, your spirit is not possessed, but your soul is. Or your soul is not possessed and your spirit is. And this gets into what's called tricotomy, which is not bad. But some people misuse certain theological possibilities. And then they do stuff like this. And then it puts people under bondage a lot of times fear. Well, my really a true Christian, I've got these demonic things in me.

3:04And it puts them under confusion. And then the deliverance individual who knows stuff, who's knowledgeable will then guide them and what they need to do. Well, often what happens is the people who are subjected to this become worse off. Because the deliverance individuals often are manipulative as well as just simply unbiblical. And so what happens a lot of times, I think, sometimes they can lead to demonic oppression. And there's a technique in manipulation where what you do is you say, let's talk about your past. And you talk about your past and the various struggles you've had. And once they've the deliverance minister,

4:05male or female, has identified something in your past that can latch onto, well, you had this problem. That means you have a demonic attachment. We've got to go through things that get them out of you. And this kind of stuff happens. So you might confess a certain sin. Well, there you go. Now they have knowledge of your personal life, your personal sins, and they're the ones in control of how to get delivered. This is manipulation. It's a cult tactic. It doesn't mean I'll talk about legitimate deliverance ministries. But there's a cult form and cult tactic. That's like that in Mormonism, Jova's Witnesses. And even some aspects of Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholicism in how they want to control you. Instead of pointing straight to Jesus as a deliverer, straight to Jesus as a savior, it's something else. It's the church, it's the prophet, the prophetess, the true church you've got to go through and they do stuff. And the deliverance ministries,

5:05well, often the individuals will use themselves as the one who is the deliverer. You've got to go to that person for control. That person for deliverance instead of the church as a deliverance, the prophet or prophetess as a deliverer. It's similar stuff, and I've seen this for years and years. So what do you do about this? Well, in first of all, before we get into that, are there legitimate deliverance ministries? Of course there are. I don't know of any, but I'm sure there are. Let's just say hypothetically that someone came to me and says he thinks, he or she thinks that there's a demonic attachment, maybe generational curse, or maybe something else. And we just talk. And we find out that the person really is a Christian. You know, you can't read their hearts, but okay, they're a Christian. And what do you do then? Well, it's not that bad, it's not that hard, it's not that difficult. There's different things we could talk about here. One of them I would say is you have the elders,

6:07hopefully you have good elders at your church and you talk to the elders about this kind of a thing. That's always a good thing if you're going to a church. But I've found sometimes that a lot of elders don't know what to do and aren't sure how to proceed. That's okay, I should write an article on deliverance ministry stuff, how to do things. And we have understand we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principles and darkness. So I'd say go to the elders, talk to the elders. If they're trustworthy, the elders, good elder, elders are knowledgeable elders are not going to get all weird. If you think something might be happening and they should be, okay, let's talk about it and they find out. This is the basic thing you do. And if you don't have access to the elders, you don't trust them. Let's just say, maybe it's too personal, maybe whatever, you know, there's all kinds of variables. Then what should happen is if the elders do get involved, or they don't get involved, you get into a prayer mode

7:07and you ask people that you trust to pray for you. And you don't have to give them all the details. If you have good friends that you trust, you say, look, I'm going through something and I don't want to give specifics, but I'm going to ask you to pray for my spiritual health and protection. That's just something generic. And you might say, you know, just ask that you pray for, you know, for the Lord to send angels to battle in the spiritual realm over me. And that's fine. And people say, no problem. And you say, I don't want to get into any details. I'm just going to ask for that kind of prayer. And that's okay. And that's fine. The elders could do that. You have friends that could do that. And the person who suspects that he or she may be under some demonic oppression. That I'd recommend that as well. But also what you do is you confess. You talk to the Lord. You spend time in silent or verbal. It doesn't matter prayer with God.

8:08You spend time with them and you discuss this with God. You say, Lord, I suspect that this might be the case. I suspect this and this and that and that. You lay stuff out. He already knows everything. And you're verbalizing it. Not because you have power in the words and you create your own reality. No, it's because you're just talking to God. And it's between you and the Lord. Not Mary, not St. Joseph or Pope Bob. You go to Jesus and you talk to him about what you think might be the case, what might be the issue. And you ask him to reveal to you any doors that might be opened accidentally or opened where there could be a venue of demonic activity that's allowed. So let's say, for example, that there's a Christian man who is backsliding and he's getting into some stuff

9:11he should not be getting into. Maybe drugs. Maybe he's struggling a little bit. It was old life for watching things. He shouldn't be watching or whatever it is. Okay. And it's getting is getting to be a real problem. These are these kinds of things are doors in that they can open you up to a spiritual oppression. Also, another thing is objects that people have given you. Now I'm not saying every object someone's given you every gift is an attachment to demonic force. They're not saying that. But sometimes these are the cases. And so let's say you have a Mormon friend who's given you a gift. Well, yes, it's a gift. Okay, Frank, thank you very much. Okay. But let's just say when that gift is given that all of a sudden weird things happen around the house. It could be an attachment there because, you know, Mormonism is not Christian. They pray to a false god, false Christ. They have everything. It's false gospel. So, you know, you might want to then take that object put outside or pray over it and see. I know this is a legit. Okay, I know that objects can have demonic attachments.

10:14And so I'm not saying all the gifts. I'm not saying all the gifts from Mormons or like that or Catholics. I'm just saying these are just the possibilities. You've got to think about them. And you pray over things. You pray through things. And in your life with God, you talk to Him. You confess your sins. You ask for cleansing. You ask for protection. And you do this kind of a thing. And I call, there's a factor as I call it, phasing to faith. Okay, to have faith on an ongoing cognitive deliberate trust. I call it phasing where you decide to trust God beyond your ability to understand. You decide to trust Him. You say, Lord, I don't understand how it all works. I choose to rest in you because of who you are. And in your prayer, you can do that. And let's just say, I'm skipping a lot of stuff, but let's just say that things get worse. It could be because you're stirring a spiritual pot and bad forces don't like it.

11:16You just keep up what you're doing. You keep praying through and you ask people to pray for you. And it'll break. It'll break. It'll end. And you move forward. And one of the things is when you ask God to reveal to you any doors, doors that might be in your life, your heart of physical, whatever it is, of family members, you just ask God to reveal them to you and to deal with them appropriately. And these are the kinds of things that need to be done and need to be talked about from the pulpit of what to do. Because there's a lot of people out there who have experiences and they don't know what to do. They're not sure how to take care of things. They're not sure how to pray through things. So one of the things you can do also, and I've talked about this on the show before, is you can take some oil. And if you're praying for somebody else, you can do it or head with oil. Just a little bit of oil.

12:16Not like pouring it all over their head, but you know, a little bit on your fingertips and just put your hand on your head. You pray over them. It's not a spiritual, powerful oil. Ooh, you know, you know, discuss and $5 into carm better or you get to the carm oil. No, not making credit like that. It's just the issue of faith. There's any anointing of the person or object for holy use. You can do that. Also a person, if you think there's something going on in the house, you go around and you just very lightly, you know, just I'd like to do this is go around to all the rooms, all the doors, everything. And just pray out loud while you're anointing, everything in the house, everything, every room, closets, toilets, the garage, everything, the boundaries. And that's what I've done before. My wife, I asked her once years and years ago to take the kids and go do something for an hour or two because they were saying in the house

13:17that they were seeing things. And you know, launch it twice, whatever. But it started happening to the point where she and I both agreed, okay, something's going on because of the ministry, I do, there's an attraction of forces. And so I did the house, I pray. And then after that, it was done. We had no more problems and no more issues. The kids didn't say anything. Were they seeing things or not? I don't know. Way to see this kind of stuff is what we deal with as Christians. That was a quick and slick kind of a low-level intro of this and you might be interested in that going to give me a call, please do. We have nobody waiting. Maybe you can call 877-207-2276. We're right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, I'm going to welcome back to the show we have nobody waiting right now.

14:19If you want to give me a call, you can. 877-207-2276. So something interesting here. I was during a break going through some of the emails. I wanted to get to, you know, just do some email answers. And somebody from Ethiopia wanted to know if we could translate to my articles. I said, sure, I just wrote it back. And the next one says, hello. I've heard of a few false teachers, typically in the charismatic movement to speak of bloodline curses. I don't believe it to be biblical, but I'm not sure how to refute against any insight to be helpful. So interesting that the same kind of a topic just came up. I might continue with this a little bit. I don't know if it's interesting. If you think it's interesting. I'd like to know if you want to hear this kind of talk. I can get into this more deeply. I used to be involved in the occult. I've seen things because I've literally seen manifestations back in the day, and it's no joke.

15:19So it's real, and we have some interesting stories about our family and stuff in history. So, you know, if you think this is interesting. Oh, no, if you think it's interesting. I need some feedback. You know, it might be good idea to have a, or they could do that. Have a feedback button on-carm for the radio for topics that you want to see. And where I could just say go to, I think, I'd be interesting. We used to have a feedback button on the homepage, but we don't anymore. Let me just check that really fast. I think we took, that's right. We don't have any more. So, I do want to know. I always want to know what the audience wants to hear. I'm not gonna tickle your ears, though. But I want to know what kind of things you're interested in. And maybe I'll do something like that. Work on a feedback deal. Feedback radio thing. Okay, making a note. Anyway, so the idea of bloodline curses. What is a bloodline curse? Well, it's not a biblical term.

16:21And we don't know if it's a biblical concept. However, there are those who will say that there are generational curses. And there's, is some support of this kind of a thing, for example, from next to this 20 verse five. Either Lord your God and Majela's God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers, on the children, on the third and fourth generations of those who hate me. Now those are for those who are haters of God. That there's gonna be curses and problems that go down to the generations. Now there's, there's theological discussion on what that means. Is it an actual spiritual attachment? Or is it the consequences of their sin manifest generationally speaking? Or is it a combination of both? So we don't know for sure, because the Bible doesn't tell us for sure. That's as close as we can get to the idea of what we might call a generational curse. However, in Ezekiel 1820, it says, the person who sins will die, the son will not bear the punishment of the fathers iniquity. So the, when we look at Exodus 20 verse five,

17:22the cursing that goes down to the generations, that's for those who are the unbelievers, and that there seems to be a spiritual effect that goes down the line. Because if you have a father who becomes an atheist and hates everything about God and teaches his children that way, they generally will come into that kind of an attitude as well and be haters of God as well, and the problems of rising with it can follow the generations. So that's one understanding of it. But we don't want to say that the children are punished for the sins of the father in that sense. We don't want to say that. So it's a fine line to work between and get through. So, but Galatians 3, 13 states something that's really interesting. He redeemed us from the curse of the law having become a curse for us. The curse of the law in Exodus 20, the curse that goes down in generation, if it's interpreted that way,

18:22is no longer an effect for the Christian. If you have died with Christ Romans 6, or you crucify the Christ Romans 6, you're died with Christ Romans 6, 8. Then you, then the law has no more power over you. That's Romans 7, 4. So Galatians 3, 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law having become a curse for us. So Galatians 3, 13 is very helpful in that that it would make this sense to say that if you become a Christian, if you suspect any generational kind of curse, I'm being very generic, because we've got callers coming in now. If you suspect something like that, do what I said before the break and even praying, but we don't have to worry about that because we're under the blood of Christ. We're no longer under the curse of the law. And those curses along the children's children is a new attachment law. So you see we're set free from it. There shouldn't be any attachment like Galatians 3, 13 is very helpful. Let's get to Peter from Texas.

19:24Peter, welcome you're on the war on the air. Hey, thank you, Matt. You're taking my call. I just wanted to ask about the deliverance ministries. I've had personal experiences with those in my family and then been to a few myself. I mean, for myself, like you, I believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit can be seen today. However, I would be open but cautious. And it's not something that I would necessarily focus on. But I just wanted to see if I could get your comments on several ministries in particular. Yeah, I think most of the ones that I've encountered or heard of are damaging and not very well theologically grounded because the people who do it seem, seem most of them that I've encountered and talk to seem to develop

20:24out of necessity and or experience and are not really digging into the scriptures about it. So I've seen this kind of a thing I've not. But it doesn't mean that they're all bad. We can have some people very knowledgeable and very biblical and can be very helpful. But the most that I've heard is that they're damaging. So I don't know what experience you had but or you know about them. But that's what I understand about them. Well, I mean, real quick experience that my aunt had actually, she has looked this and she's had that that she was, you know, a teen and she's now in her late 60s. And she had gone to a deliverance ministry event when she was a teenager. And you know, that did not go well for her to not sort of, I guess, speeder. You didn't watch it. It not happens. She tried, she tried again.

21:25And since then really she's rejected God, rejected Christianity because of that and that. So you said it can be damaging. Yes. This is one of the other deleterious effects of deliverance ministries you. There's also a psychological talk about it in the first part of the show. A psychological damage that could be done when a deliverance individual asks questions about someone's past finding emotionally charged, bad things they've done and then start speaking about it. It causes an emotional trauma a lot of times. And then they use it and say, hey, you've got this demon with you and it could be just devastating. So this is why, like I say, the most of them I've heard are very damaging, very damaging. Me things worse, most of them I've heard of. Yeah. Well, thank you for your thoughts on that.

22:26It just kind of concerns my position on things. First I go. Thank you. All right, brother. God bless, Peter. Thanks, man. All right, that was Peter from Texas. Let's get to next longest week in person is Ken from North Carolina. Oh, Ken, hey, there's a break. Well, sorry about that, brother. Hold on. Ken, we'll get right back to you after the break. And then we'll get to Luke from Washington, D.C. And we back. Happy as much as you please take two. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on air with Ken from North Carolina. Ken, welcome. You're on the air? Hey, Matt, how you doing, buddy?

23:26We're doing back up again. Oh, OK, Ken. What do you got, buddy? Hey, Matt. Do you have a barber with you? Yeah. Can we call it Melokai? Melokai? OK, what about, OK? Melokai? Yeah? It's talking about the Israelites there were as Zion, as Zion out of Israel. Now, when we're talking about this chapter right here, when we're talking about this chapter right here, on the people, it's like what is it? They're talking about the Jews or the Israelites. They're talking about the Israelites here. Who are they talking about? I had to read it to see when you say Jews or the Israelites. I noticed that phrase theology. OK? Mm-hmm. Now, in there, you know, Jacob, I love it. He's so I've hated it.

24:27So is that part of it? So I had to go through the chapter here and there. And then the original, the version of King James Version, really a little bit different than my version here. The version I got here, the burden of the word of the howl, to an unusual by a machine. I have loved you, says the howl. Yeah. No, no, no, no. What version are you using? What version of the Bible? That's the version right. The divine people that go through the name the howl. No, no, no, no. What's the name? No, no, no, no. What's the name of the Bible version you are using? The divine see from CEP. Oh, no. That's no good. What are you doing using that thing? Gosh. You know what? Look, I'm going to tell you. Look. Dude, you don't know what you're doing. Man, you don't know what you're doing. That is not a good collection. The guy didn't have any training to put this together. He doesn't understand Greek. He doesn't understand Hebrew. The only reason you guys use it is because it happens to support what you want to believe.

25:27Well, you have no business using that thing. But I'm saying what name will they use it? Well, okay, they have to work with a question pack in my ear. You don't hear what I say. You don't hear what I say. You have a faulty version to begin with. It's like being a Jehovah's Witness that uses the King, I mean, the New World Translation. I say, don't use it. And you just ignore it and keep going. It's so difficult. The reason though, I'm mad, it's just missing an answer. It's don't go on Lord and God. I don't suffer Lord and God because those are not the titles. Look, let me ask you a question. I don't want things bad to happen. Okay, I get a question. I just want to get ahead of stuff here. I don't want anything bad to happen to you. But if you're to go meet the Lord right now, you know, if you're dying to the Lord, don't not wish her any harm on you. I'm just saying, where would you go having her hell?

26:28I don't happen. Why on what basis? Why on what basis? Oh, he's saying, you're who she'll always make me do that. Why would you go to heaven? What's the reason? I've got my fingers or am I my keyboard? What are the reasons? Give me the reasons. You would go to heaven. Okay. What? I want to hear a list. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. No. Her name wouldn't have my wish, man. They'd be saved. Okay. That's all I want to say. It's basically just that Mama's killing her left over. Mama is killing her hands. Mama's killing her hands. I'll put her on the human versions. No, no. But just tell me, what the hell you got to do, if you baptized? Do you have to what's pronounced the name of God properly? What? I see. I won't be done. I won't be done misunderstanding. Mama's killing her hands says, right now. This truth verse is right here. If you ship and pass, we'll film up a dime in your whole show and say, believe in your heart.

27:32It's not what it says. It's not what it says. It's not what it says. It's not what it says. It's not what it says. See, this is the problem. You have a cult book you're using. It's a non-Christian cult book. It's false. It's not what it says. Well, God, you're talking about it. You're good. I go to the Greek because that's what the early church used. It's what God ordained to be spread all over the Mediterranean area. Not some Hebrew thing that you got later on, hundreds of years later, from a false guy, the seaford collection. Let me explain. Let me tell you, dude, you are so off-base, man. You're so off-base. You're on the moon. You're not even on earth anymore. One, one, one, Mr. Matt, Mr. Matt, Mr. Matt. Uh-huh. Do you know who the, do you know that you're who he spoke to? He spoke to the Hebrew, Israelite. He didn't speak to the atomite. He spoke to the Hebrew, he didn't speak to the Hebrew, he even made me. He spoke to the, he spoke to the Hebrew, Israelite, sir.

28:37At Mount Sinai, I've told them to go to all the books. You're not listening to anything I say. You look at this one of the things that the cult, it's one of the things that the cult don't think are noticing cults. I'll tell them something. They don't even react to it. They just ignore it. They keep going on. You see, when you don't know how to think critically, you just repeat what you've been told. You ignore comments from others. You ignore it. You just go on. That's a cult thing. Okay. It means your mind is, is, uh, is captured by cult technique and cult thought. See? If I say something, I'll get a reaction to it. Well, then. I'm not going to eat a bite. I'm not going to eat a bite. So, I'm going to eat a bite. I'm not going to eat a bite. What are you going to do all the day? You guys say, eat a bite. So, the white people, I don't affirm that. The thing in the Bible says that. I mean, when you guys get this, how to crack your jack boxes, you know, little statement.

29:39Where's your cookie stuff? You up on the east off seas. Don't deny your heritage. You're up on the we're up on the same See what you up on the east off sea. You know what it is. Come on. They don't try to play plays games We got games in there. I think that the way our brothers and sisters, but you're up on the east off sea. You know, your daddy is You might my daddy daddy Nick, do you disagree or agree? Do you agree that we up on the There are either two things we're up on the myth or truth and you're up on the myth No, you're in the mess. You agree? No, you're you're the one who's lost. You're on your way to hell How am I gonna be loved if I'm a Hebrew is like out there in the truth? Because you need a riser like stuff is a cult. It's a cult. You know, it's not Christian. You know what a christian. Yeah, I know what a christian is And I'm telling you man. You're in a cult dude. You're in a cult. It's false

30:41Do you know Christians are Christians and Catholics? You know what a christian is. Creators are liars. Okay, so you go with a divine seepher Which is a pseudo translation Motivated by black Hebrew is or like beliefs It's all it is. No, it's the truth. No, it's not What's that? The Greek New Testament is the truth What biblical texts? What? No, no, no, no, what biblical text? No, no, but you I want you to do some more. I want you to some more I want you to find the biblical texts the manuscripts that you think are true Is this any Atticus? Alexander and dryness What are the biblical manuscripts that you have because if you start studying this you're gonna find out that your boy Who did the the divine seepher man? He did not have all his pause in the litter box

31:42Vision didn't know what I I know what the truth has been here. Can we change? You change identity That's my No, you don't see you have a no let put on a responding or umpokos. See your historian in the by ultra-pais for example Columbia me nobody's Mateo. See I just said if I'm another country and And my teller my name is Mateo. I'm gonna say Mateo and and I'm gonna speak their language I'm gonna use Mateo my name is Matthew in Spanish Mateo It is because he is different from different pronunciation doesn't mean it's not the same name Translation translation is a written Trist translations are from one written language to another written language an interpretation is a spoken language to a spoken language Okay, okay, let me ask one other question. Okay. Why are you coming up? I'm gonna move Okay, so why didn't why why wouldn't The slave came to my what was saying?

32:45Huh, I don't Do you have the pronounce? I don't know. I wasn't there Why did they change that's just it? I don't know black man to white man Okay, the name took from a black to a white name come on Well, I don't know why I guess Because maybe they couldn't pronounce that how to write those things it's a game different names. I don't know Was that gonna do what you say maybe you said maybe yeah, I don't know I don't know maybe a doubt Maybe a doubt could it be that you allow you No, not knowing Not knowing something doesn't mean I'm lying. It just means I don't know I haven't studied how the name changes went from the African slaves in America or any other country I just have to study you know why hey man. There's the break. Okay. There was break. We're gonna move along Kent You're gonna move along pigeon you pigeon to false guy and you're divine see for us a false book

33:49We got to go you do some research call back. Okay. All right, man Hey, I enjoyed that stuff. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned It's Matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 here's Matt slick All right, and welcome back to the show. Let's get on the air with Luke from Washington DC. Luke welcome. You're on the air Hi Matt why haven't heard from you in a while. I'm okay, but God's grace. Thank you. How are you? Good, good, good by the grace of God good So my question is what is the difference between neo-Calvinism and the traditional Calvinist neo-Calvinism by Kaper Abraham Kaper

34:50Yeah, it's from the 19th century 1800s. So it's a neo-Calvinism was a and it's good in that it develops a comprehensive view of the reformed faith that needs to be confessional so in Belgian confessions has what's called three forms of unity Belgium confession of what's magical faith I think and what's the other one No, it's no sorry the Belgium confession Heidelberg and canna's adored and a firm the three forms of unity. It's a Theologically very astute very good system of understanding how we are to relate to God and to society in governments in uh social structures church, etc. Okay, that's it's very good. It's a world view world view cultural world view

35:51formation of reformed perspectives Okay, did you write anything about this neo-Calvinism neo-Calvinism? Let me see if I have I'm going here and I guess so much to work on neo-Calvinism and uh No, I don't have it So I'll put in my list of more articles to write Okay Like a lot of things a lot of stuff Okay That helps Okay, is that help? Yeah, I have to discuss about it, you know It's a new book of neo-Calvinism by Abraham Kuiper Yeah, he's very well known in the reformed circles very very intelligent man Very intelligent very competent and his ability to communicate so uh Yeah, you can learn a lot from Kuiper, okay, I think that the ontological seminary has a class about neo-Calvinism

36:52On semester or two semester class, I just heard about it and that's why I ask you Yeah, it might Yeah, and uh You know reform theology a lot of you'll don't know is a very very deep very very comprehensive It is if you read what's called the Presbyterian Divines They were in the 1800s well 1516s 100s basically, excuse me And uh like John Owen These guys oh my goodness their knowledge their humility their spirituality was just on another level Very godly people Worth looking into They're called Presbyterian Divines You could go to Google type in who are the elder right now Presbyterian Divines and I see right in here there we go and see what it says, okay

37:54Uh The Presbyterian Divines is specifically the Westminster Divines Were a group of over 100 theologians passers and scholars appointed by the English Parliament to reform a Dutch Church England and some of these guys in there were incredibly Brilliant very very godly people But you can read like John John Edwards, John Owen are these are Wishart Fleming these are some of these guys back in the day That would pray for example for hours a day And when you read some of the stuff from these guys you're like oh So that's what it means to be spiritual. I didn't know. That's how good they were Okay Thank you, okay, all right. Well god bless. Yeah, okay All right If you want to give me call the number is eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six John from Colorado

38:56Welcome here on the air I met hey, so what do you got? I really appreciate the work throughout the years. Okay. Thank you You taught me so much by God's grace Okay So when you have yeah The topic going to church Okay, it's very important thing. Yes But the people in the church well they don't seem like very much And it's important that the pastor does his duty his diligence and teaches the congregations without a rupture Okay Yeah, so if I come in And I'm somehow some kind of introduction or distractions wouldn't it be better if I'm not there Um depends Okay If you are are a distraction. I can't tell you if you are not if it's you who has the problem and you're causing problems with the fellowship

40:04and spirituality of others Then it probably better you weren't there But I don't know if that's the case. Well, like let's say I'm a uh young very good-looking man And I'm a leader Okay, but then the church decides all the sudden to bring in these young vulnerable women from some sort of care home or Delta or something and possessive temptations for me to be involved I mean wouldn't be better if I'd just looking in there I Think at this point you should be talking to the elders about some spiritual maturity issues Okay Well, not just that but disagreements about political and financial insight into the economic political

41:05Situation in our society in general And I bring up these disputes and now I've distracted them from their purpose. It's and don't do it Then why do it if you don't distract them? Well, if I if I'm going to do that it'd be better if I'm not there I If you're going to do it, but if you know it, how about it's better if you don't do it Just go there, but don't be a problem Okay, well it's hard not to be a problem Oh, you can't you can't hold on are you saying you can't control yourself You're saying it you go and you you're a problem you know it and you can't help it and so you go me a problem anyway I don't you're saying Well, not exactly What is what I'm saying is I'm growing up so I do that But eventually sure I'm growing up and I do it less over time as I realize that that's what's happening

42:11Okay, then you're gonna one of the things I would recommend that you do It's gonna sound very simplistic It may not even make sense to you is study body language You do two things You study body language and you learn and people don't want to hear what you have to say you watch their body language How they blink how they what they do you know when to stop You might have a condition You know, you might have Asperger's you might have some other thing you're not aware and and you're not you don't know when to turn the valve off Body language helps you read other people so that you can do that Okay, I know I have Asperger's myself and had to learn this over the years This thing there's ways to work the things you might want to consider going to see a psychologist So they can work through some issues And you need to be praying and asking God to give you wisdom and what to say you not to say and how to be a help in the body of Christ Instead of something that it seems to be your what you're saying is

43:12Some somebody that's distracting and causing problems And you've got to learn how to get over that well and how to stop that I guess my main point is The Bible does tell us to not forsake the gathering of ourselves again. That's right. He was 1025. That's right Right, yeah, so I still say it's important That if I'm going to be this distraction. I'm going to hinder these people the pastor and his congregations Uh, it's always be better if I'm not around If you can't control yourself If you can't control yourself and you are a distraction and you're being harmful in the church then maybe it is a good thing You don't go But I think that what you need to do if you're a control control yourself Well, not just me why we're all there together You see we've had conversation before and I've noticed something about you

44:13Is that I'll give you feedback you really don't respond to the feedback You just kind of move on to something else because you're more concerned about your own relationship your own this You're rather uh, how do I say this? You're more geared towards inter reflection And what you need to do and how to be around all those and how they and you don't get along and so you wonder what you can do and this is uh Not loving love is other centered guides will love the world he gave his only big guy the son And he layered like down for others you need to switch From self-interspection so much And then verbalization of that to the issue of uh, how to be loving and kind And that'll change your mind it'll change your attitude. It'll change a lot of things Okay, I'm not a psychologist Okay, but they could be helpful I've been through a lot again. I've got words of advice. I think you should follow that advice Be so do what it means to be loving you

45:16It's other centered. How can you help others? How can you serve others? Not I go in I have a problem girls commended temptation. I am this. I bring up these things. I bring up this problem blah blah blah. They don't like me What's the center you The center is you that's a problem The center needs to be the Lord Jesus And when you love him you'll learn how to love others And it's and it you'll do several things at once you'll glorify God and you'll start to change It's not easy to make lots of mistakes You study body language because I don't think you know what that is. I think you need to know it Because it'll tell you when people don't hear what you have to say Because sometimes it's just a fact that what we are going to be boring and irritating People could just are sometimes That's how it is So you need to learn this all the more so in social situations you make fewer mistakes And you learn you need to learn how to be loving Other centered and learn how to change your ideas and your your mind everything to be cry center. Okay, that makes sense

46:24Yes But the point is you still say I should go to church Yeah I think you should go to church and I think if you do go to church Don't be a problem Sit in the back Be by yourself Ask God to teach you in that situation And that you go why if you're causing problems Don't do it you can be there without causing problems If you can't be the church with all the problems then you have a serious problem Look man, we got 30 seconds in the show We got 30 seconds. Okay. Well, this is my point. So go to church. I've got problems go there deal with it Learn how to act Think of church isn't gonna thing to teach you that The scriptures are and you focus on Jesus How do you glorify the Lord Jesus and what you do when you say

47:26Turn your eyes off of yourself get them on the Lord Jesus That's you need to do all right, that'll move you to spiritual maturity. Okay, brother. All right All right, man. Hey folks. Sorry about that. It could have been off right there But there's a music Jeff from Ohio. I would love to talk about that topic tomorrow if you call back And uh, that's really interesting topic May the Lord bless you all and buy his great so back on there tomorrow and Lord one will talk to them. God bless you Another program powered by the truth network