Matt Groening

0:00My name is Matt Granting and I feel honored about being Conan O'Brien's friend and why, because Conan, you are the Bob Hope of the 21st Century. Oh my God. So I'm going to have a huge deal with Texaco. Yes, exactly. And stick around and show business for a really long time and confuse the younger generation. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien. Hi, I'm Matt Gurley. Hi boss. Hi boss. Driving to work today, I saw so many WAMOS driving around. I saw, I think in one minute, I saw six different self-driving WAMO cars zipped by, criss-crossing,

1:04going this way and that. I started imagining that they were ghosts commuting. Oh my God. It made me really happy. It made me really happy because I just thought, okay, there is an afterlife. You're a ghost, but you still have to get around Los Angeles. You have shit to do. Do you know what I mean? And they have to sit in traffic. You know, they have to stop and get gas and man, it's a lot, it's costing a lot right now. Straight subformers are closed. And so that, yeah, they're just invisible. They don't fly? No, they don't fly. Okay. Yeah. What are their ghost jobs that they're going to and from? Well, you know, I saw one. It was probably a podcaster. It's another one who works at Lowe's. Oh, wow. You know, in the gardening department. So yeah, they just have jobs like anyone else. And it's funny because sometimes they get into, you know, there's a little road rage and the ghost will flip someone off, but nobody knows. And so we're just thinking this all of this while I was driving around and it was making

2:05me happy because then I'd see another one passed by and I go like, oh, there's a ghost. He looks like he's late. But there's still on their phones. So there's just a phone floating. Yeah. There's a phone floating there. Watching their phones, their buying shoes on the internet when they can't wear shoes. It's just sad. I was on my way to work here one time on one block. I saw Waymo and then one of those cocoa delivery bots and then I shit you not an orthodox Jewish person on a hoverboard. You know, those one we all did a thing. Sure. All on one. But wait, if you're orthodox, Jew, you can ride a hoverboard. I think some things. I thought there was so. Oh, maybe that's a certain after certain traditions. That's just on the Sabbath. Just on the Sabbath, you can't ride a hoverboard. Right. And then you can't ride a hoverboard. I'm just going to admit that I'm, whenever I see one of those, I want to hit it with a bat. I don't have any hostility towards it. But it does look like you just want to give it a whack because it's going, it's making

3:10it. He's doing his job. Easy though. I think you're doing a lot of stuff. I have a lot of stuff. Yeah, a ghost just ordered some tacos. I love those little robots. I have a lot of sympathy for it. But it can't work. I can't believe it's still going. I mean, I just think that, you know, it's so hard to get people to follow the social contract and not spray paint over something or not park terribly or not smash something that's nice that's sitting out. It's very hard to get people to just follow that rule. But once you have a little tiny little little robot machine, I'm going to like, excuse me, excuse me. You know, I just, I mean, I'm a law abiding citizen, but I want to smash that. You know, you're not alone as the former operator of a moving trash can. I can tell you a lot of people's instinct was to kick that thing. Not just kids. And just back it up in case people aren't aware of your origin story. You, this is your origin story. This is your being bit by a radioic just spider. Your job at Disneyland was to control a robot trash can that would walk around and say,

4:17you know, feed me litter. And you were sort of in the background with a remote control in your pocket. Yeah. And a lot of little bully kids would come and just start wailing on it. Of course they would. And to the point where I would say in the trash can voice, like, where are your parents? Why aren't they doing anything? Somebody please help me. And he has a bird voice. Did you ever say, oh, the humanity. I did. I literally did. Did you say that? Of course you did. Oh, wow. Am I not a man? If you cut me, do I not lead a pound of flesh? Oh, my God. That's incredible. I should have. I would say that. If I had that gig, the things I'd be doing would get me thrown out and maybe Disneyland shut down. Yeah. Because I would say things like, I'll murder you. I wasn't far off. I was always hitting on the other trash cans and, you know, saying like, don't divorce me and things like that to the other trash cans. Like they had a prior relationship or something or why won't you talk to me? Did people, did they have to have conversations with you if you crossed a line?

5:20Was there like a manager, like a trash manager? Yeah. No, no. He had, he weren't goofy. Goofy was, oh, I gotta talk to you. He's got his art class with his penning. He's got his sanitation with coming and giving me acting notes. No, they left us alone because it was just a one person job. They often forgot about us. So I was just out there on my own for the most part. It just occurred to me what's trying to do something where we have a little cocoa bot, call a wamo and then get in. Wouldn't that be great? Try to get up. Yeah, we call, or we call a wamo for a cocoa bot and the, and the wamo pulls up and then the cocoa bot, I'm going to, and we put a little ramp up and it gets in and it goes. You tell the cocoa bot it has to deliver something inside the wamo. So that's why it thinks it has to go in. And then, I mean, I would just love, yeah, then it's a robot driving a robot around. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, my boys are at the age where they're always just going to know robot cars existed.

6:21Car, no, it's crazy. Isn't that nuts? I think about that all the time. Yeah. I would say that to Glenn, just look, no one's driving the car and she's like, big deal. Granddad. Big deal. I'm a real father. Where's my father? Who's this guy? Yeah, talking trash can. That's, that's the respect. I look Glenn bullying you. I think that'd be fun. She does. She does. Were there other trash can guys? Were you guys the crew? Well, we never worked together because it was always, you know, it was a solo job. You know, we friends. Yeah. Did you watch and we're like judging? Just one guy who was better at it than you and you're looking at a man. You're looking at him. You're the best one. It's the only brag I can do. You were the best. No kidding. I was. No, but is it a brag? I don't understand. There were other people that you knew that also operated trash cans and you would watch them do it. No, we had to originally to learn. The guy, a guy came from Florida that built this thing and showed us how to do it. But I think we all here on the West Coast went a little loosey goosey with the fear of it. I mean, sure. We are really let loose.

7:21You're in that house now, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing would break down all the time and just die. The battery would die in the middle and it would be left. So you like the voice was losing battery. So it would be like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. So wait, then could you, you'd blow your cover if you walked over and started to put it in? You had to. You had to because by then the people were like about to light it on fire. You know, oh my God. It was bad. You know what? Everyone's interesting is to trash a robot. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Why? It's a trash us, you know, it's killer. Be killed. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. They just want to deliver food and drive you places. That's what they want you to think. Yeah. Yeah. Why us? I heard the Waymo cars are being controlled by people somewhere else. What? Where did you hear those? I don't know. They're autonomous. No one's controlling them. I thought I was going to helicopter saying, take a ride. Take a ride. Take a ride. Why is your conspiracy like not the opposite of a conspiracy? It's people are controlling them.

8:21Like radio. Yeah, the food delivery robots, the Cocoa robots are controlled by people. And the Waymo's also can't have people take over when there's an issue. Yes, they can have people take over. No, but I give them what you said. Okay. But the food delivery robots are controlled by people. Oh, what do the people, what do you mean they're controlled by people? Where's the person? Is this does matter? It's remote. It's remote. It's remote. It's just, that's why like if you wave at it and say, hi, the person will say like hello and it'll wink and stuff at you. Really? Someone's sitting at a terminal. Yes. And they're, they're seeing a blinking dot that says it's going down or do they have a camera? I, they have a camera. It's like a remote control car. So now I can't trash one. No, no. Because they'll be footage of me on the internet, me saying, hey, little bitch bot. It's time to, it's time for you to taste Louisville slugger. Cut Chang. And then that's all over the internet. Yeah. Those Waymo cars too. I mean, what's stopping people from just like taking off their pants in the back seat?

9:24What? Who would want to take off their pants? Sounds like you got a little fancy. What are you talking about? What do you want them to like? Oh, my fantasy is to have my bear ass on a commonly used car seat. I can't wait. And I think people that want to do that prefer a driver in a car. Yeah. I don't know or like, you know, just like do drugs or like do probably do sex stuff. Maybe they do. Right? I mean, like who's stopping you? I think, well, I think they have like a spray that activates. I don't think there's a spray. Yeah. It's a calming soothing gel. I don't know. Makes the penis shrivel. No. Oh, that's true. I've heard that. Calming soothing gel that then makes the penis shrivel. Yeah. Well, first it calms you and sooths you. Okay. Then it makes your dawn johnson take a little holiday. Turns your dawn johnson into an arty johnson. Yeah, exactly. What? And already johnson reference. God bless you. Is that a wrap? God bless you. Yeah, I think your wrap sign wasn't arty johnson reference. That was your wrap sign.

10:24All right. Let's do this thing. My guest today is an Emmy award winning writer and animator who created one of the most iconic animated series of all time. I'm going to say the most iconic. I'm going to go on a limb. Yeah. I don't have any skin in this game or do I? That's right. The Simpsons. He also created the Hulu series Futurama, which is currently airing its 14th season. The theme on the podcast is, well, it's just been so long overdue. I am ecstatic that this gentleman joins us today. Matt graining. Welcome. It is so great you're here. Thank you. Because the fans are going to freak out. You're a big part of my life changing in this amazing way. My origin story for people that don't know is I was working on Saturday night live. I was in a funk. I love that job and I loved everyone there. But I thought I need to go. I'm just in a bad place in my life.

11:24So I walked away from SNL with no job. Two of your writers and he was a recent gene heard that Colonel Brian might be loose and available. So the next thing I knew I was submitting. I don't know some of the sketches I had written on SNL. And then I was told you've got a job on the Simpsons and you need to be here like in four days and it really saved my life. Wow. It was a magical part of my life. So I thank you. God do I thank you. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't gone there. I want you to know that your old office has been preserved. It is used for storage. And it's right next to my office. And yesterday I asked my assistant Violet and said, let me see Conan's old office like to talk about it. And she said, no, no, no, no, you can't. You can't. I said, and you cannot mention it. And I said, come on, just let me see. Please don't talk about it. Please, I beg you. And I open the door and it is Florida ceiling with Simpsons merchandise.

12:28Oh, wow. Yes. In fact, this is the merchandise that popped out. Oh my God. Look at this. Oh my, look at this. And I just want to thank you. That's after your time. This is 1997. But those are. I love Mr. Sparkle. Is it like Luzol? It's value if I open it. Yes, don't. Okay. You know what I love? On the back, Homer's head with bubbles coming out the back is saying Mr. Sparkle, first of all, it says Mr. Sparkle, I guess in, is this Japanese? Japanese. And it says Mr. Sparkle is disrespectful to dirt. I love these translations that never make sense. And this is what Homer's saying. Join me or die. Can you do any less? This is a children's toy. Well, what it is, what it is, Homer found a Japanese detergent box in the, in the, in the Springfield dump. Yeah. And he didn't understand why his name was, or his face was on the, on the cover of the box.

13:32I just love it. It's one of the great episodes. It's awesome. For Lucky Best Wash, use Mr. Sparkle. I'm disrespectful to dirt. Can you see that I am serious? This is fantastic. Thank you so much. I didn't mean to tell you not to open it. We should see one. I'm so excited. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Nolan Smith and Jackson Mark Skogl University of dryshadow! уемson's what's it like? Matt Greening. Clicking and clicking. Matt Greening. cleanup. Matt Greening. greenee. greenee. greenee. greenee. greenee. greenee. greenee. greenee. greenEEEIE gesund. greenee. integrated meerk awaken to the show in West Coast. I feel amplified recently. With cars.

14:32I feel overwhelmed. It had this, it rusty screen door kind of creaky. So you heard it and Pavelovian, we would all look up maybe foods here, you know, maybe lunches here because that's what you would hear when they would bring in the fried food that we lived off of. It and you walked in and you were carrying something you purchased in Mexico on the street and it was a very crude attempt to make Bart's head out of wood. It looked like he had swelling of the brain, like fluid build up and it had been clearly the person had taken, didn't have real stains, so it polished it with shoe polish. And it's one of the most upsetting things I've seen in my life and you were cackling and you I guess you collected. I collected those, yes. And yeah, another is too many of them. What is it? Can you think of one of the more horrible ones? Bart Sanchez was the name on the bus of Bart. And he had a son, Barreiro. And yeah, it's like, yeah, they're all over the place.

15:35There was a Russian coloring book where it obviously whoever had done the coloring book had seen the Simpsons for five seconds and then said, I do a whole coloring book. And that was very cool. I will kill you. By the way, speaking of the creaking door and the food, you did a bit one time. Oh my God, I'm so proud of this. So every single day a production assistant would come up the stairs, clomp clomp clomp outdoor stairs, making a lot of noise and then bang open the screen door with a stack of boxes. The food would come around one. And I noticed one day, we're all sitting around. It's George Meyer and Reese Jean and Jeff Martin and everybody's there. I noticed people were starting to say like, man, where's the food? It's 130. And then hey, it's 145. It's the really unhealthy hamburgers that we order from. Island. Island? Islands, islands. Yeah. Where is it? And we always got the same thing every day, but we were like dogs that knew we got fed at one. And it wasn't coming. So I quietly excused myself to use the bathroom and I went downstairs and I found a big

16:40cardboard box and I waited a while and then I clomped up the stairs, opened the screen door and backed in backwards. So you just see a jeaned ass and a t-shirt so that it's just and I start struggling with a big box. I could filled with food and everyone. Yay. And then I turned around with an empty box and I went nothing. And people were, I rage. But it made me happy because it made others sad. We were like Pavlov's dogs. Yes. You hear that noise and you start to salivate. The food is coming here. Do you remember? You wrote Homer Goes to College and I recall you pitching this one line that you were so attached to. Yeah. A B bit my bottom and now my bottom's big. Yes. Homer, by the way, Homer, Homer is saying that. Homer's the only way. Are you like me the Greek poet? Yes. Yes.

17:40But you know, I'm not only did you pitch it in Homer's voice. You were so delighted by it. You pitched it repeatedly. Then you got up and acted it out. You bent over and stuck out your butt. Homer gets, it's, Homer has to, everyone's, and everyone there is trying to think of as you got the smartest comedy writers you'll ever see. He's really brilliant people and they're all trying to think of a really clever smart line for Homer or something just like perfect, like a gem. In that moment, I don't know why, but I just, because Homer gets bit by a B, which is I think one of the reasons why... Stung, stung. Yes, sorry. In your line, it was bit. Yeah. Oh, right. I didn't even pick it up. That's right. He got stung by a B, but Homer would say bit. And so... And I like that alliteration. Yeah. B, B, B. And so I just, I don't know, these things come to me. I just said to the whole room, a B hit my bottom. A B bit. B bit my bottom. Now my bottom's big. And people were laughing, but also like we can't do that.

18:44It's too stupid. But then it ended up in the script. And I was, you know, it's one of those things that follows me around every now and then. And his big ass is big to begin with. Yeah. The way the animators animated, one cheek is very big. Yeah. It really was swollen. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so did I contribute? Sure I did. You know what I loved? One of the things that, and you can talk to this, which is, it's a phenomenon that the Simpsons did so beautifully, which is, and we did this with Homer a lot, but Homer is not the smartest guy in the world. But if it's funny for him to have a certain knowledge of something or turn a phrase, suddenly he has it. And one of my favorites of that is he's sitting around the table and Lisa's despondent. Something didn't go well for her. And she doesn't think she's going to get to go to a good school now. And she's sitting on the table and she said, oh no, now I'll never get to go to an Ivy League school.

19:45I'll have to go to Vassar, which is just this like, by the way, my wife went to Vassar. It's a very good school. But it was just this thing where in Lisa's little world, oh my God, I've been, I've been ruined. And a Vassar and Homer like slams a table and says, there'll be no Vassar bashing in this house. Homer would never know what Vassar is. If he did know, he wouldn't care. He's got no stake in this. But suddenly this is where he draws the line. And I loved that in a given moment, Homer or any character can know something they wouldn't normally know. And there's Barney at once. I think Mr. Plow, which is a John Vidi episode, Barney's at the bar. And he and Homer are competing to have the better plow business. And Homer thinks he's ahead when suddenly a commercial comes on in Moes. And it's Barney promoting his plow business with Linda Ronstadt. And so it's Barney and Linda Ronstadt. And it's like, hey, Barney, hi, Ronda.

20:45And then they go ahead and do this commercial and ends with them singing a song. And Homer says, Barney, how did you get Linda Ronstadt? And he says, we've been looking for a project together for a long time. And what I love is that doesn't fucking explain anything. How do you, what do you mean? Like, I just love that. Well, Linda and I have been looking for something for a long time. And this, this, it finally came together. That's something Sammy Davis Jr. would say about Frank Sinatra. But characters that speak not of themselves, but for a moment of beautiful clarity. We went through a phase when you were there and you helped a lot, making Homer dumber and dumber and dumber. Right? We're trying to top ourselves. We finally drew the line and he could not ever forget his own name. Okay. There's one. There is one where Homer is saying to himself,

21:48a policeman is asking him for an explanation. And Homer is saying something akin to say something good, say something good, say something good. And then Homer says, I'm watching pornography. And you cut to his brain, I guess saying say something good, say something good. Homer says the exact wrong thing. And you cut back to his head and his brain says, that's it. I'm out. Then you hear footsteps and a door slam. And this opens up. Wait a minute. His consciousness got sick of him. But he is his consciousness. So there was all kinds of shit like that. And I always credit you. You keep in the room saying, guys, come on. You can't go too far. We were like kids that just wanted to eat chocolate all the day. And that was the schoolmarm taking my finger going, no, no, that's too much. And of course that only encouraged you guys to do more. But when you that thing about, I'm out, you did that to yourself when you pitched a

22:48joke that didn't that you felt didn't land. I remember once you pitched something and you mimed getting into a tiny invisible rocket ship and shutting the door and taking off into space. Oh my God. I do for there was a long time where I thought my only job here is to entertain the other writers. Like I do believe that I was I would do it. Think sometimes where I put a bunch of Coca-Cola in my mouth and then start vibrating violently. And when it does this, it foams and comes out of your mouth and I'd be going, oh, and they would have me get up and do it in front of everybody. Realistic convention sex workers. Yes. Yes, they bring in. Yeah, it was there to be like, hey, do this soda soda soda. All right, guys, if you want. How is this moving the piece forward? Well, you know, the writers room that the table was very long. Yeah. And you were on one corner of the table. And literally you would be doing a little puppet show for the writers around you that the

23:50other people at the other end of the table didn't put in here and they're all leaning over saying, come on, do it for us too. You had a great saying there, which was things can be improbable but not physically impossible. And I thought that was a great rule, which we of course tried to chip away at that. Your point, I think it was really very wise was this is not a roadrunner coyote situation where the coyote can explode and fly into 75 pieces and then they land on the highway and the next scene. He's been reassembled. Right. So if Homer falls into a gorge and falls all the way down, he doesn't just reappear magically a second later and say, okay, I'm going to try this now. He has to be bruised bloody and he went down. Yes. Yes, maybe in real life. You weren't supposed to show blood in cartoons. It turns out, yeah, we made Homer very bloody many times. Yeah.

24:51And he fell down the gorge and that was one of the, that was very early on. He tried to skateboard across Springfield gorge. Yes. Right. And he defied physics for a moment and then fell. And then fell. And then the next shot was him being raised on a gurney. You know, he had all bandages. He's being raised on a gurney to the ambulance and his head is banging into the side of the cliff all the way up. Don't, all the way up. And then they put him in the ambulance. The ambulance goes 10 feet, hits a tree and he slides out and goes all the way down again, all the way down again. That's when I knew we had a show. That was the, that was, yeah. So I loved that if a four wheeled vehicle of any kind crashes, it has to explode into flames like a car from the 1970s, you know, detective series where it just has to go into a fireball. So there's all riddled through the Simpsons are an Amish guy driving a cart. Homer doesn't see him and drives by too fast. The guy goes, whoa, the cart and the horse go over the cliff.

25:53It's huge fireball. And so there were these things where it's like, okay, that wouldn't really happen, but we can allow that. It's not impossible. It's not impossible that that's impossible. It's impossible. It's so with kerosene. Yes. And the horse had maybe eaten a bomb. But what I remember when I did the monorail episode, there was a bit in it where we were initially trying to get George to K. That was my first idea is that George to K will play this part. And then George to K said no, because he said I'm on the transportation board in San Francisco. And I cannot. And it was all about a monorail and being a bad idea. And he said, I can't in good conscience. And I was crushed. I thought, oh, he's the guy I want to be in this. And then I think Al Jean came to me and said, we just heard that Leonard Neumoyle do it. And I was like, wait, what? That's better. He outranks. Sulu. This is great. And so the joke at the end of the episode, which I got to go and record the voice, a bunch

26:55of us went and meet Leonard Neumoyle. And it was just a dream come true. But he at the end of the episode, when everything sort of been resolved and the monorail, people didn't die. And it's the end of the episode. Leonard Neumoy says, well, I guess my work here is done. And Barney says, you didn't do anything. And Leonard Neumoy says, didn't die. And then beams out. Now I remember this being a big discussion because I remember, I think Al said, well, no, the rule is nothing impossible can happen. No one can beam out. And I was like, yeah, but it's spot. Spot can be mad. And we got into it and you said, no, it's okay. But I remember thinking, oh, I hope we get this. Yes. I hope we get this. You can, you know, for the sake, if the joke is good enough, there was an episode in which Homer is somehow on a Christian relief plane flying to a distant island. And he's trying to get off. And he says, I don't even believe in Jebus.

27:59And then they take off and he says, save me Jebus. Yeah. He does that too. And I think there's a segment where it's sort of about how out of shape he is. But he's driving through the night. And he sees a big sign, lit up sign. And it says Jim, G-Y-M. And Homer looks up at it and he goes, guym. And then he's wondering and he goes, guym. And then he parks the car and it's night time and he goes up. I think and he looks inside and sees all the people working out in the exercise equipment. He goes, guym. You're, when is so, you're so unhealthy that you don't even know it's called Jim, which you've at least heard a billion times. But yeah. By the way, so you were, you were one of the new guys. Yeah. And I was like the first, I think there was the original crew. Everybody wanted to work on that show. And you know, I'm just this poster boy for Crazy Good Luck.

28:59At the moment I became available, George Meyer had just decided to take some time off. And there was an opening. And you know, you're one of the legendary Simpson fighters. Yeah. Yeah. Just spectacular. Yeah. Hall of Famer. And you know, our assignment at the Simpson's was someone would go off and write a script. We would all pitch jokes for it and they would structure it and there'd be an outline. And then that writer would go off and work on it alone. Fascinating. For a couple of weeks. And then come back. Yeah. Oh, we'll get better. And hand in the script. And then we would all go through it, page by page and make it better. And then George Meyer would turn his in for like Mr. Lisa goes to Washington and we'd all look at it and go, I see nothing. We would change here. VD was like, I mean, just these incredible, absolutely incredible writers. Would you know one of the, you were around for John Swartz, right? Yeah. So John Swartz was another one of the great writers. And he would turn in scripts that were so insane. Yes. And we just cut out the craziest things and they would be absolutely brilliant.

30:02Yeah. We had a couple of jokes here and there. They were so good. Let me paint the page for you, John Swartz, welder. We, you know, the rest of us look like what a comedy writer and their 20s looks like, a caricature or early 30s. We all had that same kind of look. And then suddenly there's this guy in the corner who is much older than us. And he's got this incredible mustache. He looks like the Hansomist policeman. You'd see an 1890. Like a real man. And he's smoking cigarettes and he's not saying much. But when he does say something, it's brilliant. And I remember this clear as day, I get this insane opportunity to audition for Letterman slot, thinking this will never happen. And I'm asking recent gene, like they want me to go to the Burbank Lot and audition. And I don't know. I don't know. And should I even be doing this? I mean, I have no experience. I can't. So even if I got it, I don't think I could do this. An insane idea.

31:02I'll never. And I was sort of, the room started asking me questions about it. And I'll never forget. I said, I know they want me to audition to replace Letterman, who's, you know, genius and invented this new form. And I can't. And then I remember Swarchwell took a long drag of a cigarette and he never spoke. He didn't say much. And he exhaled and he went, I'd watch your show. And that was the first time someone endorsed the concept. Because most people I would say that to like, you're a funny guy, but what the fuck are you talking about? And Swarchwell was like, and he said it with this conviction of like, maybe no one else will, but I'd watch it. And I was like, thank you, John. He's never watched one. I don't know about it. I just want to say about Swarchwell. I like him, but when Clinton was in office, he bet everybody on the staff that, yes, oh, he's completely wrong. Clinton would be hanged while in office. He said, yeah, he was. Oh, I remember when he also drove the world's biggest Cadillac. Whatever the 1956 Caddy.

32:03And he would be the last one in the parking lot while we are driving away. He'd be going, remember, remember, remember, and we'd leave. And he'd still be trying to hit, rained it when he wouldn't be there the next day. So we, he obviously made it. And I always heard these stories that he like saved every dime he made. I think he, at the time anyway, he lived in like a very modest house. And I think he lived with his, he and his brother like shared a house. And I remember asking him once, so what do you, like the rest of us are going to go for the weekend and, oh, I've got a date or I'm going to go here. My wife and I are going to go there and I asked John. He said, well, do what I always do and go home. And my brother and I are going to play catch with a softball in front of our house for, you know, like a couple of hours and then we're going to hit a diner. And I was like, wow, wow. Well, because he's just from the 50s. You know, he was, he was from out of time. I mean, if anyone has ever been from another time, it was John. John Swartz welder and brilliantly funny writer, but very wrong sometimes about things.

33:04When Clinton was first running for president, people would be like, oh, he's doing really well in the polls and he's, and he would tell us with, no, Bush will defeat him. Bush will defeat him. This is the guy that would say he'd watch your show. Yeah, exactly. Wrong about everything. So we go back so far. This was in the era when you could actually smoke in diners and yeah, Swartz welder, what's the big diner on Ventura Boulevard that's no longer there? We were famous one. Is it duparts? Is it not duparts? It's other. Anyway, norms, norms. Yeah. Swartz really had a booth that he would sit in and smoke and write Simpson scripts and then they made smoking illegal. And so he had a identical booth built in his house. Yeah, totally believe that. He was that guy who like definitely gonna march to his own town. And now he's a novelist. Oh, he's a novelist. He's really funny. He's really funny. He's really funny. He writes these sort of hard-boiled detective mysteries, but they're insane.

34:09I think the title of one, which I loved, was the robot did it. And I've read these and they were just spectacular. But you have one of the best lack of a better term, rags, to riches stories that I can think of in all of show business because I saved my rags. And those rags are now where they're fortunate. I see your rags on eBay all the time. Yeah. L.A. in 1977 to become a writer. While you're waiting to accomplish that or even while you're doing it, you're washing dishes at a nursing home, clerking at the Hollywood Likersheets, a record store, landscaping in a sewage treatment plant and show furring and ghost writing for a retired director of Western films. That's right. It's just incredible. You know, so that, the last job was I wanted to be a writer. So I looked, of course, looked in the LA Times wanted ads for help wanted and it said I wanted writer, show fur.

35:11And so I applied for the job and I was the writer, show fur for this old movie director who you've never heard of. And my job was to drive him around during the day and we'd look at those sites, go through Beverly Hills and whatever and he'd say that's Tom Mixes house. And then we'd drive by the same house the next day and he'd go, that's where Laurel and Hardy lived. And I say, I don't think they lived together. Shut up. And then I would listen to his stories and at night I would work on his autobiography which was this high, because there had been a number of previous writers show furrs. And in fact, there was one, while I was out driving around, there was a guy sitting at his house on the dining room table, you know, typing it up. And I just remember reading these and the guy was obsessed with his mother. He goes, today was the day I met Cecil B. DeMille, immediately I ran home to tell mother. Mother, I said, I met Cecil B. DeMille. It was odd. This sounds like sunset boulevard.

36:11Yeah, it is very much. It is very much. Yeah. Wow. At the age of 88, mother lost control of her bowels. Oh, no. So that was the lead sentence of one of the chapters. I thought that was a whole chapter. But getting back to Schwartzweather, one of my favorite lines in one of the detective novels is they attach the detective up to a lie detector. And they say, does it hurt? And he goes, yes, a little. And they say, you're lying. They're unhinged. They're unhinged in the very best way. And I think one of them starts with the detective just getting the classic thing, getting beat up. But then it turns out that he shows up for his beatings because that's his job as a detective in an alley. I mean, it's just it's. My story begins with me getting punched in the face. Yes. You know, what's interesting to me is everyone knows, of course, you do, you know, your first goal was to be a journalist. Right. And what's fascinating to me is part one of your gigs was if someone was getting a star

37:14on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, if I have this correctly, your job was to, okay, you know, Don Nott's is getting his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. We do some research about that, but then you would go out and try and find out exactly where the star was going to be and what business it would be in front of to let people know. Right. Which no one did, right? You'd say like, oh, it's going to be in front of this tobacco shop on Vine and. I tried to get the most degrading store that was closest to the, to the, to the, and there's plenty of them. Yeah. Oh, sure. Oh, the shreds of Hollywood and, you know, all sorts of, yeah, do do in poor, and you would say, yeah, whatever. Yeah. This, you know, Miss Mayfield will be getting her star in front of the Dildo Emporia. And you kind of got in trouble for that. Yeah. Well, they called me up and asked me, please don't say what stores the, the stars are in front of. Yeah. Of course, I never stop. No. So what's interesting is again, these moments fascinate me. You time travel to, you get a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

38:18And you could never have imagined back when you were writing the stories. Well, someday I'll have my star. It's, it's ludicrous. Well, it's really fun is to take visitors from out of town and walk down Hollywood, Boulevard into it. Oh, look. You're right. If I knew you. Yeah. You were up on like, polishing it, scraping urine off of it. There's a lot of Hollywood stars now. There's a lot of them. Like they sort of doubled it up. It's not just, you know, oh, no, there's, and they have one. I do not know. And nor will I, nor will I ever have one. I'll see to that. I'm going to work on that. Oh, please do not do that. Promise me you'll never do that. So many great memories for me, but you couldn't have been, you couldn't have been prepared for the success of the Simpsons because you make a show you hope it just stays on the air at the time, primetime animation that's, you know, the brainchild of a underground, you know, subversive comic artist, this isn't going to work.

39:21Maybe it will work a little bit, but then it becomes a phenomenon. And how quickly did you realize that you've hit one of the biggest gushers of all time? The first indication was the little cart, the cartoon started on the Tracy Homan show. And they were, they told me at the beginning, they brought me in and they said, we want you to do a two minute cartoon for the Tracy Homan show every week. And I said, oh, you can't, you can't do anything in two minutes. That's not enough time. And then they call me because I know I'm sorry. It's one minute. And then they said, it's four, 15 second cartoons. So the whole thing began with 15 second cartoons. And so my, my feeling was, well, site gag, that's all we, you know, really quick, quick, quick, side gags. And what made me think that we really had something going is they put some of those cartoons on the, on the beginning of Fox movies. Yeah. And they got applause when the titles came up and they go, oh, so people are watching already. So that, that was the first indication.

40:21And then when the show came on, we did 13 episodes without a pilot. And Fox, first they wanted to do one show. And we, Jim Brooks refused and said, no, we want to do 13. And they did it. And the whole thing, the whole run was built on those first 13 episodes, which we had never seen the results of the animation before they were all written because it takes six months to do it, to do all the animation. And so we lucked out. That's all. It was, it was an incredible, lucky situation. And then there was the Fox network brand new, which didn't even hit the entire country. It was regional. Right. And even with the, the fact that it wasn't in every market in the US, it was still extremely popular. So that was amazing. I mean, was it the first episode of the Simpsons or the second or third, at what point does it become clear that, I mean, I don't remember how quickly, but I remember it was very fast. I was writing it Saturday night live when the Simpsons debuted.

41:22And we were all aware instantly that this was the probably second or third episode. Yeah. Yeah. That's the last thing ever. And I think every comedy writer was just, oh my God. I wish I was over there. That's the place to be. And that's as much as I loved SNL. It was, it was just a phenomenon. And it's, you know, when I leave, I remember thinking, I mean, I even think about it. But part of my experience has been, I leave a show and think, this probably goes, runs for a little while longer, you know, and then it will find its natural endpoint. I thought that about SNL when it was like, when I was there and it was, you know, 14 years old, we had a 15th anniversary special. And I thought, well, you know, this, this pony is going to be put down soon. I think they just had the, now it's 51 or 52 years. And the Simpsons is just, is it, how many? 38 seasons. Oh my God. We've done more than 800 episodes. That's a lot of pencil mileage. How do you think in animation terms? How do you guys guard against repeat jokes or even themes?

42:25Is there someone cataloging like an archiveist who can come in and... Well, if I were Conan, I would mime an invisible gun. Yeah. And we do repeat. We do repeat. Our motto now is try not to repeat recently. Yeah. Yeah. We know we try. You know, Al Jean is sort of the living brain. Well, he's a living inside of a video. I can watch episodes from last year. I don't remember a single moment from, because they just, when goes in and when goes out. Yeah. Very Homer Simpson style. Yeah. And people like Al Jean and the internet help us say, did we already do that joke? Yeah. And yeah. I mean, now it's going to be easier and easier to track it down. Yeah. Because of a little amazing thing called AI. Hey, AI, just a quick plug for it. No, no. No. No. Okay. Stop. It was an AI sony I can use. And now, and now we are, because of the internet, we are being congratulated for predicting the future. Because the next thing I was bringing up, which is I've had people ask me, how is it that

43:29you guys, meaning any Simpson's person? How is it you guys were able to predict the future? And I'll say, you're not being serious. They're totally serious. They think that the wizards work at the Simpson's as opposed to it's a volume business. You throw out a lot of things. Maybe you make a joke about, yes. And the president in the future will be real estate asshole Donald Trump. And it's just a quick laugh in the room. And then later on, it's a chilling. Oh, man. Yes. Of what will, but there have been so many of them now. Well, Dan Greeny, the writer of that line about Trump being president, we've done in like 2002, something. Yeah. And then, at least it was president. So we don't get everything right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And he's taken that to heart. And now he dresses up like a prophet and and and and and he's running for president. So I mean, here Dan Greeny was running for president. Yeah.

44:30Well, vote for him. Yes, of course. Sure. I want to see the outfit for not predicting he wins, by the way. These days, I would think anyone would have a chance. That's the world we're in right now. Let's talk about Futurama because I've always believed that there are two really fun things to write. One is someone who has unlimited wealth, which is why writing for Mr. Burns was my favorite thing. And I think all of us loved it. And you know, I'm doing the voice. I love doing the voice. Yeah. I mean, I used to pin. And you also tinted your fingers. I've tinted my fingers. Yes. It seems to me. And I loved, I used to pitch in the voices and I thought that's what people did and people were like, what are you doing when I first showed up and I would do the different. I don't know. Homey. Maybe in the building. What are you doing? What are you doing? And I thought, I thought we'd pitch in the voices and like, no, you don't pitch in the voices. No one does that. I loved writing for Mr. Burns because it's a kind of silly writing you can do where he

45:34can, if you have, if a character has unlimited wealth and is evil, they can have anything, that can be built by man can exist in that person's dungeon basement. They can have hyperbaric chambers. They can have escape pods. They can, all kinds of sinister things can happen. The other fun one I always thought would be writing about the future because one of the miracles of the Jetsons, I think, that made it so much fun to watch was the world's your oyster. You know, you can just writers are completely free to imagine anything. To me, that's why Futurama always made so much sense. Was that part of the initial appeal? Well, part of it was looking at the Jetsons, which has the greatest theme of all time. Yes. Right. It's all of these apartments and stuff that are on stilts. In the class. And you never see the earth. Yeah. And I thought, well, let's do the future. Like what's going on down there? Yeah, it's got to be pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It did feel like it allows you to use a whole other area that, you know, the Simpsons

46:39can dabble in every now and then if someone's imagining the future, but Futurama just felt like it was really fun. And it turns out that science fiction and comedy don't necessarily work together. I mean, you can make it funny, but if you're, if just just a piece of advice, if you're doing a science fiction comedy, don't have the rocket ship be shaped like a salt shaker. For instance, it's funny the first time, maybe, right? It's irritating the second time and it's infuriating the third time. So anything that you see over and over again, make sure you can live with it. The series begins. Who are you creating it with was David X Cohen? Yeah, that's right. I know David Cohen. Yes. He's called David X Cohen because there are other David Cohen's in the right. Is that why he put the X in there? Yes. I always just knew him as David Cohen, but then he put an action. He's David S Cohen, but there was another David S Cohen too. And X is pretty kind of a feature of that. I should change the Conan exo-Brian. Yes, I'm sure there are other Conan O'Brien's out there trying to your wife, but you have to change into an exo-Brian.

47:40Yeah, I see. Congrats. You're fired. You're fired. By the way, you know, Homer Simpson seems like a pretty random name, but it turns out it's not the most random name and we did get a letter once saying, thank you for ruining my life. Oh my god. I can't order pizza. I can't do this. I can't do that. Signed. Fuck you. Signed. Mrs. Homer Simpson. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh wow. There's a documentary about all the real people named James Bond and what they have to live with as they walk through the days. Terrible. Well, the other thing is that I, you know, I named the characters after my family. That's right. So my father's name is Homer. My mother's name is Marge. I have a sister Lisa and I have a sister Maggie. And I kind of wrecked their lives, you know. Now. Marge's hair. I know it's, it's kind of modeled on right at Frankus time, but also did your mom? My mother had a very tall beehive when I was a kid and from the angle that I was looking at her, it really seems big. And she always denied it, but I do have photos.

48:42So in my dad loved the Simpsons except when Homer was mean to Marge. He did not like, he got, he called me out. He called me up after there was an episode in which the Simpsons car breaks down in the desert. And while the family was sitting under the shade of a big boulder, Marge has to carry a tire back to town. And my dad was so mad that Homer made Marge carry the tire. Yeah. And I said, he strangles his kid and my dad said, I don't care about that. Did they make you stop the strangling at a certain, because they know early on there was, you know, Homer would really throttle Bart, grab him around the neck and go, you know, and I think that went away at a certain point. No. It went away and then we get tired of repeating the same joke. But then it wasn't out of concern for Jimmy safety. No, you know, we wouldn't do spanking because that's too real. So it's the strangling. This is our very, yeah. That's true. And never bothered me. And by the way, I struggle my time.

49:42It's always, yeah. It's always, why you little? And then in general, Bart tries, you know, reaches for a frying pan and hits him. And yeah, Homer gets us come up and there was one episode in which Homer went, why you little, and he comes over very slowly and strangles him. And it was so freakish that we cut it. It's only for some impulsive. So impulsive anger. Impulsive. Impulsive is funny. We did it. We did an episode in which Homer and Smithers got into a fist fight. And they were hitting each other. Smithers had an old-fashioned rotary fun. He was hitting him in the face and they're back and forth and really harsh, harsh animation. And I remember coming to the sound mix and it's just horrifying. And it was not funny at all. And we could not figure out how, you know, we're stuck with the animation to show, there's a lot of Thursdays, shows coming, airing on Sunday. And we tried, okay, let's make the sound effects funny. You know, Boeing, you know, no, it made it not funny at all.

50:44And so finally, as an experiment, we took out all the sounds of exertion and just let sounds of pain. Oh, you know, all that kind of stuff. And that made it fun. So that is that is my comedy tip there. Pain is funny. I, one of my scripts I wrote that Mr. Burns wants to kill someone with a baseball bat. It's sort of that thing that's, it's, it's that old trope where Al Capone is walking around the table with a baseball bat and we got teamwork, we need teamwork. And then he lets loose on one of the guys who's a traitor. But my thing was that he's so weak that he's going, and that bat is just barely touching the guy and the guy just says, what are you doing? And Mr. Burns says, I'm thrashing you to the needs of your life, but he's incredibly exhausted. So my way out is that he's incredibly violent and homicidal in that moment.

51:45He can't do anything. And the other thing our member is going back to the Fox lot a couple of times I've gone and I'll, you know, walk up to the old writer's room, which is it looks like an old 1940s hotel motel. It's, you know, that it's, it's two stories and there's a staircase that goes to the second level. It looks kind of dilapidated and I push through the same old creaky door and some of the same faces from when I was there. Everyone's got gray hair and they look up and he went, and lunch, yeah, lunch, that's still nothing. But now I would hang out and chat with him a bit and then I would say, well, I got to go, please. No, I'm going to go shoot a travel show. I'm going to, you know, Paris. Palace. I'll see you later. Oh, kill me. Kill me before you go. I showed my, my 10 year old at the time, old episodes of Andy Griffith and he liked

52:50them, but he said he really liked Gomer Pyle and I said, well, Gomer had his own show and he goes, what? What? And so we watched like 150 episodes of Gomer Pyle, USMC. Yep, huge. And in the background is that writer's building as a barracks. Oh, there you go. Yeah, they filmed it on the, on the Fox lot or at least part of it. And someone told me across from where we did on the Fox lot, across from our sort of old, rickety building, there was a little bungalow and we would sometimes meet over there. We would look at animatics. We would look at, oh, now the color corrected versions come back. We're going to look at that. We'd have meetings over there sometimes and someone told me that that was once Marilyn Monroe's dressing bungalow on the Fox. I heard that story. No idea if that's true. I don't know. It's either. Where it's where Lora and Hardy got together. To have sex. Sadly, that room is still where we watch animatics. Is it really? Yes. Okay. Yeah, so nothing's changed. Nothing has changed.

53:50And then these little odd things pop up. I remember we were writing an episode and everyone's sitting around. It's Patty and Selma, Margie Sisters and their voice also by Julie Kavner. And one of them, I think it was Patty or Selma has a iguana, a pet iguana. At one point, we needed to know the name of the iguana. So Al Jean just said, oh, no, we need a name for this iguana. And I remembered the whole room is just like thinking and I, like having a spasm. I just said, jump, jump. And I remembered Al went, okay, jump, jump. And then it's one of those things where people, real Simpson's fanatists will come up to me sometimes and go, jump, jump. And I'm like, oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. But you started using that phrase all the time. And you had a fictitious product or something called jump, jump. Yes. I built a whole religion around jump. That's right. I was saying jump, jump a lot. And then it's one of those things where it's annoying to everybody all the time. And then the one situation came around, what do we call this iguana?

54:53And I just went, jump, jump. And they're like, okay. But yes, that's actually the way it happened. Something was wrong with me. Glad it all got fixed. Oh boy. There were throwaway jokes that then become part of the vernacular. I think it was George Meyer. I may be wrong, but he reached over and grabbed something and said, you ain't. Yes. And so now that became a thing where you say the sound effect of the thing that you're doing. Yes. And then George got sick of it, but we still use it. Yeah. First of all, there has to be a part two. If you've got the time, you're welcome here anytime you want to come in because we barely scratch the surface. There's so much to talk about. So it's an open invitation anytime you want to come. Thank you so much. It's really nice to see you relaxed. The last time I saw you, I visited the office here and then you came out dressed in a German sailor suit. I do remember that. I'm a very strange lady. And you didn't acknowledge it. Yeah. Hey man, what's going?

55:54Never acknowledge. He didn't know. He didn't know. He was like, I'm like, Homer, I often forget. Completely who I am and what I'm doing. During the German Navy. No, you, I mean, clearly you've brought the world so much joy, but me personally, you changed my life. And so I will never thank you enough. I honestly don't know. I don't know if my life would have unfolded the way it did if I hadn't had that time at the Simpsons. It was really perfect. Well, you were great in the room and I wasn't surprised that you went places. In fact, when you were, it was announced that you were going to be the host. New New York Times called me up and said, is who is this guy? Is he funny? I said, he's funny. America will love him. And they printed that on the front page because I was the only guy who knew who you were. That's right. And this is back when every other quote was Jim. You know, he looks like an idiot. And so the fact that I, the knives were out for you. Yes, they were. Because they were a writer. Yeah. And I was like, quote, because I was desperate for anything that would keep people in

56:57bay. You came back to the, the, the lot. Yes, I know. It's a beautiful thing to do. He's very, he's very appreciative and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I know I, I've seen everything else. You've done. Yeah. No, but anyway, thank you for your service. Oh, you know, and, and also, again, about the Simpsons and, if you draw them and everything else, it's a collaborative effort. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a combination of great writers and great actors and great animators and great musicians and, oh, it comes together. So I'm the spokesperson model. Yes. Yeah. Well, sir, I thank you and I'm desperate to get you back here anytime you want to be here. Thank you very much. Any reason. Thank you guys. Good night. And, yeah, bless. Hey, I have something to talk about. Yeah. Which relates to us, Sonah.

57:57Uh-huh. A couple of days ago, I'm hanging out at my house. It's a weekend. Everything's chill. And all the sudden, Sonah sends me a text. I looked down and what are the texts, Sonah? This, the text said, hey, your car is going to be a few minutes late. And it's very matter of fact. Yeah. Oh, your car is going to be a few minutes late. Yeah. Which is the kind of text you send me if I've got to go to the airport. Right. You know, I'm, I'm supposed to go to some function. Some scuttle, just some work thing and a car is going to take me there. You know, can I just say, because I was your assistant for such a long time and I used to book all the cars for you. Yeah. And then David took over, but it's still my phone number. Right. So without even thinking, when I get a text about his cars, like either coming or information from his thing from his drivers, I just text it to David and Conan without checking. I don't even know what he's up to. Uh-huh. Oh, my God. So it's really funny because Sona, um, Sona has no connection really to the day-to-day stuff. But then out of the blue, when I do get a text from Sona, it's either a picture of her

59:01two twins, um, hot wearing a car or, uh, it, um, it's to tell me that a car is waiting for me out front. And then I go, Oh, okay, yeah, I'm supposed to go to the airport or I'm supposed to go make an appearance on this show or that show and they've sent a car from me. Let me see if I can find this. Where the hell is this going? Okay. Hold on. So I get a thing. I'm going to read it to you now. Sona, your driver is running a few minutes late. I text back four, like question mark, like to take me where? And I, for a second, I'm just thinking Sona just decided I need to go. So your driver is running a few minutes late. Sona, four, Sona. Um, I, she wrote texted, um, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, um, comma, I don't know. I just got a text and I texted back. I ain't going nowhere. And Sona texts, this is fun. Now, David Hopping is on the thread and, um, he suddenly pipes up.

1:00:03That's weird. And then I text feels like a kidnapping plot. And, and, cause why is this car waiting for me? Then Sona texts, I think it's a scam text I fell for. I'm embarrassed. Um, uh, what? You go and then I'll read the text with the guy. Okay. So Sona writes, writes, I think it's a scam text I fell for. I'm embarrassed. And then I wrote to Sona, now they have your nudes. She gave that a nice double estimation point. Sona wrote back who doesn't? Then listen to this. And Sona texts, oh, wait. I ordered food and it's about my food. Then Sona texts, I'm sorry, but this is hilarious. Then David Hopping texts, this is my favorite text thread. Yes. I text, that's great. David Hopping, what did you order? And then I text, we got to read this on the pod. Yeah. Then Sona writes, this might be the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

1:01:05It was awful. Then Sona texts, goop kitchen. And then, um, that's what she ordered. And David Hopping writes, Gwyneth really knows what she's doing with that kitchen. Yeah. And I write, if you charge my card, I'm having you arrested. And then I said they have turkey meatballs that are shaped like ovaries. And that's, that's Sona writes, I don't charge your personal card. I charge your company and it's a write-off. So you're welcome. And then Sona said, I'm proud of you for typing ovaries. I know it's difficult for you. Yes. I wrote, I cried twice. Sona said, I enjoyed picturing that David wrote hashtag growth. Yeah. And then I wrote to David, David is, oh, I wrote it to both of you. David's headed to Vegas to see Kelly Clarkson and Sona's ordering goop on my dime. You guys have made it. Meanwhile, I've been slaving away in the yard for two hours. What were you doing in the yard? I know. And then Sona says, what were you doing in the yard? And I say, I go into my yard to men'scape.

1:02:05Oh, that's pretty much the gist of it. This is the bullshittery that goes on. The three of us aren't doing anything separately. And it's like you set off a room full of mouse traps. It's just I was like, oh, okay, I'm doing my job. Like your car, your car's a few minutes late. And then why is it? Why are we even on these doors? You didn't remember that you had just ordered food. I completely forgot. And then the guy, he sent me a text, he goes, your driver is on their way now, but it's running a few minutes late. And so I go, okay, I'll let him know. Thank you. Who knows exactly the edibles that you had. No, this is my sober state. And then afterwards, I was like, wait, who is this? And he goes food delivery. And I go, okay, thank you. And then he said he's on his way. And then when I realized it was the food that I ordered and the driver that I had requested that was about me, I was like, do I even tell a phone in or can I just pretend there was a mix up

1:03:07and not the car company messed up? But then I ended up telling you a story. You know, which made me feel really stupid. A strength of so-and-so is that she's honest. She's very honest. I might have just said, oh, some kind of error. I just chewed the car company out and let them have it. No, yeah. But you didn't do that. No, yeah. And they're a really good car company, so I don't, I wouldn't want to. But yeah. Well, anyway, good to see that you're on it. Yeah. Boy are you on it. How's the Goop kitchen? Good. It's really good. I don't know, man. It's good. I was just embarrassed. It was an embarrassing myself in front of Conan is the worst type of embarrassed. Slash best thing. It's the best thing that ever happens. Good for the show. Well, I think we all learned a lesson, which is trust but confirm, you know, or verify. Terrible. Just terrible. Just terrible. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian, and Mac Gourley, produced by me, Mac Gourley, executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao, theme

1:04:10song by The White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Genering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns, additional production support by Mars Melnick, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Khan. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of Sirius XM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are down the road.