Mathew Hebert - Expand Our Capacity for Love

Hi all! This is the first episode of my new podcast, Eat The Strawberry!

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Faolan Sugarman-Lash: On this episode, I interview a friend of mine named Matthew. And he is an entrepreneur and a world traveler and philosopher, I would say. And in this episode, we dive into love and trauma and making the most of life, which is the whole point of this podcast. 

And it's just such a beautiful conversation. 

 It was a joy to interview Matthew he's one of the most articulate and. Wise and grounded people. I know. And so. Yeah, I hope you enjoy. This episode number one of eat the strawberry, the podcast. Thanks for being here. 

Mathew Hebert: Hello, sir. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Thank you for being here. [00:01:00] It's 

Mathew Hebert: truly my pleasure. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: I'm glad because that's the whole point of the show. Um, I was thinking about who in my life I'd want to interview first for a show about making the most of life. And, uh, yeah, in my, my life, in my circles, you're, you know, a person who came to mind about who I really look up to in terms of your capacity to live in integrity with yourself, to fill your life with joy, to speak words in a really intentional way.

And yeah, so I'm super excited you're here and grateful to have the chance to explore this together. 

Mathew Hebert: Thank you, brother. Thank you for the kind words. the honor is truly all mine. And, I'm humbled and, can echo the same sentiments about you as well. So thank you for having me on.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: You're welcome. And thanks for being here. So, I would love to start by just telling the audience a little bit about how we met, [00:02:00] because I think that that will funnel us into, uh, Making life an awesome adventure.

So I met Matthew at the airport in Costa Rica, at this little shop and I was standing behind you in line. And I remember you had a really cool necklace on and I immediately got just totally a vibrational hit of like, I need to talk to this guy. And so I just said, Hey, cool necklace, I think.

And yeah, the rest is history. We both were going to the same music festival envision, and then paths kept crossing there. And Now we've seen each other all over the world And yeah, so it's been such an adventure even in the last, what, year and a half of knowing you.

And yeah, would love to hear a little bit about what brought you to that festival, what you remember of, meeting, and yeah. 

Mathew Hebert: Sure. So I, distinctly remember that interaction [00:03:00] as well at the airport. And I believe we even took it one step further and took the bus ride together which was about a three to four hour ride. Uh, Journey from San Jose to a beautiful Pacific coastal area of Costa Rica called Uvita, where this festival Envision was taking place, and I think that Bus ride really solidified our opportunity to get to spend a lot of time and space together as I got to know you pretty intimately on that ride alone and also felt The similar vibrational connection where I thought, okay, this is a human being that I would love to have in my life and spend some more time with and get to know deeper.

And as [00:04:00] you alluded to our time at the festival was extraordinary and crisscrossed paths a tremendous amount, spent a lot of sacred moments together, and that's allowed our relationship to have become this really expansive abundance, of friendship over the past year and a half.

And we'll shortly be coming up on our two year anniversary soon. And the genesis of me attending that festival was extremely spontaneous. Very spur of the moment. It was loosely on my radar, and I was down in the country of Colombia, and a friend of mine called me named Heidi, and I had met her camping at Burning Man at a wonderful camp called Ashram Galactica in 2019.[00:05:00] 

And she reached out to me out of the blue and said we need a little extra help with our build team and offered me a ticket in exchange for my physical services and I immediately accepted. The flight from Colombia to San Jose is very short. There's direct flights, and I saw it as a wonderful opportunity to continue to put myself in situations around this planet, energetic vortexes, where the best.

People exist like yourself. And so almost right before the festival, I accepted this wonderful invitation and went to help build these structures four to five days. Prior to Envision, which would become these extravagant balanis style eco [00:06:00] VIP cabanas and that was my foot in the door for Envision and there were so there was such an abundance of wonderful humanity to come out of that for me.

Such an energy, such a beautiful, energetic space. And certainly the reason we're sitting here today.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Totally forgot about the bus ride, but you're right. That was where it all started. And one of the things that happened on that bus ride is that you were talking with some people in Columbia about your project that you're working on there. And I'd love to go into that later and how that has all come up.

Um, it strikes me that the people listening to this might not know you as well as I do. And so, and it's an opportunity for me to get to know you better too. And I was looking at your LinkedIn today because I was like, what is, what's Matthew's journey been like? And many, many years [00:07:00] ago, according to your LinkedIn profile, you worked at IBM in IT, I think.

Um, is that correct? 

Mathew Hebert: Yeah. Well, I didn't even remember I had a LinkedIn That's crazy. . That thing hasn't been updated in probably almost 15 years. so, out of university age, I went the traditional route, with a corporate job and, very quickly realized that that was not, a path that I was ever going to walk.

Um, Ialways had had a tremendous amount of, entrepreneurial presence in my life. I can give my father a lot of credit for, forging his own path. And although it was, as far as corporate jobs go, it was great. Flexible hours, the, corporate credit card, the whole nine. Uh, I knew that it was not a [00:08:00] place where my soul really felt at home.

And, uh, the, the money aspect of it was very secondary to how I felt every day, having to put on a suit and tie and, go to a place that, didn't really strike me as a, a forever home. And, so I, quickly realized that, that that was not going to be, uh, uh, a forever situation for me and retreated from that existence and fell into, the event planning world, starting here in Washington, DC.

And was able to, through a number of different wonderful humans and, and, and stepping stools build a, a wonderful event, uh, planning practice here in Washington, and then, be very fortunate to have hosted some, [00:09:00] events, all over the world. And, that was absolutely the, the, the pillar, for what we'll segue into later and what I'm embarking on right now.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Yeah. Beautiful. And thanks for sharing for people. I was shocked to see that you had worked in corporate and the sentence that stuck with me from what you just said is that It didn't feel like the place that could be a forever home. It didn't feel right in your soul. And I'm imagining you at 23 or 22 or however old you were.

And yeah, there's this quality about you even then that I, I didn't know you then, but there was a quality about you of this doesn't land intuitively for you that I'm picking up on. And I'm wondering that intuition, that sense of self, that Way of being in the world that you have. How have you cultivated that then and now, and [00:10:00] what does that mean for you?

What is that? 

Mathew Hebert: Sure. So, frankly, that I'm even shocked that that was brought up because, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's not something that many people know about, frankly. It's not something that I, I, I rarely, openly speak about it because it was such a. A brief snippet of my life in a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, as they say, um, but in now that I am consciously thinking about it, perhaps it was a pivotal moment as all of the moments are in our life where we have the opportunity to go left or right.

And, um, I think at the time I was, very much still figuring myself out, which frankly is, is a forever journey. And,I felt like, okay, I should do what everyone else is doing. I had a number of friends up in New [00:11:00] York city that Came out of university and got high powered, high paying jobs in Manhattan, and I think at the time I felt like, well, maybe that's what I should be doing too.

And, uh, but I guess, uh, to your point, I have always had a certain intuition, although at the time it was like baby intuition, you know, but I still felt it. that this isn't serving me. And, um, I think it's something that I've absolutely cultivated, a thousand fold over the years, to be able to intuitively and very easily and very quickly decide, what frequencies are going to serve my life.

What support systems to invite in and then what energies are best to let flow around me and wish them well, uh, on their journey with grace. [00:12:00] And so, um, I, you know, I can't, there's not really one particular thing I can point to, in terms of cultivating that. What I can say though, is that, uh, throughout the years since, that.

Opportunity. I've continued to intentionally surround myself with, uh, people and environments and communities, where I could learn and be hyper curious and hyper spongy to, information and resonance that was far beyond my own, sort of, as the cliche goes, it's good to be the dumbest person in the room.

Only if you're willing to, to learn and grow from, from, from that ethos. And, uh, fortunately for myself, ever since I was a child, I've always been a, an, an insanely [00:13:00] curious creature. And, since that, corporate gig, with, I-B-M-I-I flourished in environments. Where I felt like that everyone in the room was far more advanced than I was, and then figuring out ways to get to those levels by, uh, integrating certain pieces of various puzzles, that were gonna, um, fit, fit my greater tapestry.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Yeah, I'm sorry for springing that on you. It sounds like it was no, 

Mathew Hebert: it's all good. It's all good. That's great. That's great. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: I was just thinking about how normal that is, you know, to go into a typical career path. And, you know, you and I very, very quickly, both of us realized that that's not what we want.

And, um, Sure. This idea of, of putting yourself around the people and in the [00:14:00] spaces where you can feel intuitively the vibration that maybe there's something here to learn. I think that hearing you say that it's something about you. That is so. Real and the humility that you always have and carry to have that.

And, I feel like that, you know, could segue us in. You said that there was a time 11, 10 years ago, your first burn, I imagine was probably one of those. Oh, wow. This is a different experience, a different feeling, that you could learn from. So would love to hear some of that story. 

Mathew Hebert: Yeah, that's a wonderful segue.

Um, so, uh, a decade ago, I was sort of at the precipice of, of my own personal growth journey. and, And I had a pause you and just what does that 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: mean to be at the precipice of your personal [00:15:00] growth journey? 

Mathew Hebert: well, I was undergoing a huge life shift and there was a number of factors in my life from, switching, pivoting within the event industry.

 a failed relationship. starting to come to the realization that, perhaps the people that had served me in my early to mid twenties were, were not the individuals that I wanted to walk the path with moving forward. Um, and so that. all started happening, right at the precipice of Burning Man.

And, uh, they always say, you know, things come into your life when they're meant to. And, certainly Burning Man was one of those things, ironically, not dissimilar from the Envision Festival. [00:16:00] It really wasn't on my radar. Um, I have a great friend who, has attended me, Burning Man with me every single year, since that moment and it was, Brett, Podesky and, He was the, initiator of my Burning Man, journey, as it were.

Uh, he was friendly with a gentleman who ran a camp there and was offered two slots at the camp. And, I feel very honored that I was his, first thought about attending this, this event in the desert. And so I immediately said yes, because why not? Right. And I love adventure. And this is Matthew, at, you know, 20, 27, 28 years old.

I love adventure. I [00:17:00] love a good party and it's the greatest party in the galaxy. So let's give this thing a go. little did I know at the time, just how profound of an impact this, utopian mirage metropolis, as I, lovingly refer to it. Would totally alter the course of my life. And it's very interesting that since the moment I stepped onto the playa where I had this in the playa is what we refer to as the desert.

 I had this electricity bolt. flow through me the very first step, like Neil Armstrong landing on the moon or something. And I immediately knew that, first of all of the skills that I had acquired in life up until that point were built for this place. So I had an immediate sense of comfort, which is not true with [00:18:00] everyone out there.

 it's a very challenging event and environment. but since that moment, I can very distinctly trace the woven thread domino effect, to exactly where I am right now and what I'm doing. And that's, pretty miraculous. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: I would love to hear more about what it is exactly you're doing now. I mean, I know some of it, but I feel that that might help illuminate some of what you're talking about.

Mathew Hebert: Sure. to give some, context on how Burning Man has, led me to, where I am right now. I had never been in a situation or environment where I felt like all 80, 000 people [00:19:00] were at a greater level of consciousness than I was, I had never been exposed to an environment that was so loving, so supportive, where the currency is love.

The currency is, gifting all of the creative elements that people spend all year. Manifesting and then physically building. It's all for the people. And in the default world, as we refer to it at Burning Man, I had been in some wonderful situations with extraordinary people, but I never, In fact, I don't think there's anywhere else on planet Earth where such a baptism through love can occur.

And that really impacted me strongly throughout that week. And I was fortunate to [00:20:00] meet a plethora of divine guiding lights at that first Burning Man, some of whom lived in, in Latin America. And, I was fortunate to be put in a Spanish immersion program when I was five years old, by my beautiful mother, Brenda.

And, it sort of clung to my soul. And so pairing the opportunity to Continue to journey to Latin America, but not just as a traveler now, but as someone who is, staying with and bearing witness to what people are creating there, was really profound and planted the seed many years ago that I've henceforth been watering and that has led me to.

My own project right [00:21:00] now, in the beautiful country of Columbia. And, for the past two years have embarked on this, not even new chapter of my life, but the whole new novel of, building out a land project, the mountains, of Columbia about an hour and a half outside of. Of Medellin and, with the idea, that's sort of twofold.

Uh, one is for personal, sovereignty, and sovereignty for. those closest to me, my friends and family to be able to create a Eden, as, as much outside the influence of societal trains of thought of, societal norms of government influence, to be able to create a life of freedom. And [00:22:00] then the outwardly expanding, of, of the property directly comes from Burning Man, where I was able to, over the last decade, bear witness to, just how much this, community really, it's more than an event.

It's a, it's a, it's a community, uh, how much each individual. is impacted through love and support at Burning Man. And then like a dandelion flower, those seedlings get redisbursed into the default world. And witnessing how many similar things to Burning Man that have popped up globally even just in the past decade, is, is extraordinary.

And that speaks to the effect. That this one week a year is having. On a [00:23:00] global scale and the way that it's, changing hearts and minds for the better. And so if, over the course of, a couple of years or decades or a lifetime, through this, uh, conscious event space, if I'm able to, um, anyone who walks through the doors, uh, for whatever modality it's for, or if it's just to come and hang out.

And get a little, uh, extra piece of, of serenity. if I'm able to redisperse those dandelion flowers, uh, seedlings back into the default world, perhaps I'll have left, a small footprint through love over the course of my life,

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: it's really beautiful. A sentence you said about your first burning man was that it was a baptism through love. And that you really needed that [00:24:00] and hearing the purpose behind what you're building now and how that you want to offer that to other people, that feeling of safety of retreat from the default and into this serenity maybe, or, or love or beyondness, but also being here ness at the same time.

Um, yeah, I'm really inspired by that. And I'm also curious for you, like how you navigate. Relating to love is really the question that I want to ask. 

Mathew Hebert: Sure. Well, let me start out by saying that, a philosophy that I've come to know over the years, alluding to what you just mentioned about the beyondness as well as the here ness, when I think about these, these concepts that are in duality, I try and think of, oneness [00:25:00] and that.

Everything like the yin and yang, although they may be two separate parts, they create a whole. And so, one, beautiful concept, around that, that I believe I've helped some people with over the years is coming to the understanding that, we only experienced deep grief because we've known deep love and that it's it's two sides of the same coin.

And so I try not to think about these things as separate. But as, the greater parts of, of oneness. And, as far as how I've cultivated, the, deepening of, my own love throughout the years, it it's come from a tremendous amount of. of healing, of shedding, trauma, inherited trauma. Every human on this planet inherits [00:26:00] a certain level of programming from their parents, from society, from, expectations, from friends and, relatives.

And, I think, the majority of, The past decade has been unwinding that programming, and being able to, feel like I'm alchemically changing pain into love. First and foremost for myself, because once we are able to, discernibly change and transmute pain into love, we then free up space as we're shedding the old.

 which is a necessary process, in nature, we then can invite in the new and when we're inviting in the new, that integration is, literally done through a rewiring of our heart, of our DNA, of our, neural [00:27:00] pathways, and we can then feel like along this path. That we become the most authentic versions of ourself and it's, a forever journey for sure.

but at this current point in, time and space, on some level, I feel like I've achieved that for the first time and understanding who I am. As, a human being and, and the things that, that I desire through love, for myself and then being able to speak. From a place of authentic truth through love, and once that process is feels like it's somewhat complete, it never is.

But once you really start to understand the self through love, which takes a tremendous amount of of pain, frankly, but again, two sides of the same coin. We can then be [00:28:00] expansive, without love and, hopefully, invite others into this, miracle that we've been able to bear witness, for ourselves.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Boy, there's so much in there. I've been thinking a lot about this question for the podcast and it's really an intuition of why I'm here doing this. And there's the intellectual reason for me being here and interviewing people and bringing this work into the world. And it's really to make the most of life and what that is.

But then there's the emotional calling to this or the spiritual calling. And The more I've really been sitting with the question, the intellectual question, the more this spiritual knowing has come out of how capable can we be? How big can our capacity be to feel love, to feel, [00:29:00] And like you said, with the wholeness of love, both the pain and the love, the grief and the, maybe the joy, like it's all part of this, this aliveness.

And so listening to you speak, I'm, I'm called back into that calling or idea of, of what this is for and what gift I really would love to deliver to the world from our conversation and from all the conversations I'm having. And I think that the idea of shedding, shedding something in order to let in or create space or, or feel have a higher capacity.

That's really like, it I think, like you said, and yeah, it is about trauma and it is 

Mathew Hebert: about, 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: yeah, go ahead. 

Mathew Hebert: Yeah. And it's a supremely challenging process because, most of this, stuff that we inherited since we were [00:30:00] conscious in the womb, is this subconscious psychosomatic programming. And, unfortunately, I think most people have never been given the opportunity to become aware that their human vessel is being exclusively driven by programming that is, is, not of their own.

Thank you. And it's, when they say enlightenment or awakening, in my eyes, it's the first moment, the first aha moment, the first step through the door of realizing that, basically your entire life, is being driven by, programming from the word go. Parents, schools, relatives, you know, you go to kindergarten and you go to first grade and then here's the curriculum, and so on and so forth.

Go to university, [00:31:00] marry the girl, get the house. And I don't think a lot of people have ever been given the opportunity. To come back to authenticity in a way where they, they find themselves. Although I do feel, there is a conscious awakening in the world right now and, feel very blessed to be a part of that, a second coming, if you will, over the past 50 years.

 and it couldn't happen at a, at a more necessary time, but it's, perhaps giving the gift. through the project that I'm embarking on of this, awakening that I think is, a really, profound and necessary, gift through, through love so that people can have the opportunity to, build an authentic truth within themselves and then be able to give from, from a space of love and authenticity.[00:32:00] 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Yeah. I'd love to live in that world. I mean, I, we do, but you're, you're well 

Mathew Hebert: on the way, brother. You're well on the way, my friend. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: And I think we all are right in just that the conscious awakening that's happening, hopefully not everyone. Well, hopefully as a collective, we might move in that of, of awakening and yeah, that first moment where for me, I remember I was, uh, sitting on a bench in New Zealand and I've told the story a lot of times, so I won't go into a lot of detail, but basically I realized for the first time that my soul was mine in a felt embodied somatic way that the life that I was living was my life.

Not a life that [00:33:00] was constructed by these preconceived notions, or as you put it, unconscious psychosomatic programming, which is so real. And I see that in, in my work. And so, yeah, bringing this around back into this trauma piece and the shedding, I would love to just get your thoughts on how an enlightening moment fits into a letting go, which fits into a letting in, if that makes sense.

Mathew Hebert: Absolutely. So somewhere along the way, I started to become aware of, my own psychosomatic subconscious programming and bringing that into consciousness. And that's a very challenging thing to do because it's very painful. You realize that, you've basically been Living a lie most of your life and, that's a very hard thing for a lot of people to grapple with.

 [00:34:00] but in, in bringing a lot of this trauma to the surface, I was then, uh, I think the most, the most powerful part of it was, self forgiveness for a lot of the mistakes that I had made in the past. accountability for myself. in those moments, which I think is, is very challenging. It's very easy to, brush off when you can say, Oh, you know, I, I did this because of X, Y, Z, or, or you're constantly pushing the blame aside, um, to really being, uh, really taking accountability for my life and being able to look at myself in the mirror.

And say, you know, there were moments where I was not a good human being and I, hurt people along the way that I cared about. And, I don't want to do that anymore. And [00:35:00] how can I become the person that I know I can become? And a lot of that starts with forgiving the self for those errors and mistakes.

And once we can do that, then we can become expansive with the forgiveness. And, without getting too deep into it, there was a number of, of very important people in my life, that I had to forgive as well for not knowing how to love me in the right way, because they weren't loved themselves in the right way.

And, it was through self forgiveness, the forgiveness of others through love, and then subsequently, bringing to the table, real conversations that at the time were terrifying, uh, telling someone you deeply care about that, you feel a tremendous amount of anger towards them because of the way that you were [00:36:00] treated and, just laying and putting all the cards on the table.

And there's a lot of tears involved and, your only hope in that situation is that once you put your truth out there that it will be well received, but you never know until you try. And, fortunately in, in my case, it was real well received. and these, important people in my life are now walking the path with me, which is really beautiful.

but it takes a lot of courage. to engage in any of those steps that I mentioned, never mind all of them, but that is the process of shedding. And only then can the, can the new be invited in. And I also think that once you're able to speak from a place of, true authenticity.

And [00:37:00] you're, putting it out there, into the world, into a given situation or, with an individual, it's a wonderful filter system for who deserves to be in your orbit. And who doesn't. I love to say that all life is information and our power simply lies in what we do with that information. And so if, you put your truth out there and it is coming from a place of, authenticity and love, and it's not received.

How you envisioned it being received, or it's not received with at least a level of empathy or compassion to attempt to understand. that's probably a good, moment to say, well, maybe this situation or individual isn't As supportive in my life right now on this journey, as I thought they were and [00:38:00] let that flow through you with, grace and love and wish them well on their journey.

And, stark reality is, time is both our greatest asset. And our, our greatest, mortal enemy in this human form, this iteration as Matthew, and, I've come to a very simple conclusion that, the rest of my days, the rest of my breaths, will be spent in spaces and places, where there is at least, a cohesive, Intention for empathy and compassion as I'm speaking my truth, and if there's not, c'est la vie, the world's a big beautiful place, and I've just got too much to do.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Thank you for sharing all of that, and the journey that you described is one that I, [00:39:00] am on, have been on and help my clients on. And that first bit you mentioned of realizing that you've been living a lie and how painful that is. For so many people, you know, a lot of my clients talk to me about the grief that they feel for having lived 40 or 50 years in a way that's not authentic and not aligned.

And then just that step one, right? And then there's changing all of the dynamics and relationships, addressing old pains, letting go of the trauma, letting go of belief systems, uh, and having the courage along every step. So it's, really. It's beautiful to hear and see you doing that and having done that and to feel, you know, in our shared connection, what life can feel like on that journey between people on that journey, uh, [00:40:00] especially somewhat far along maybe.

And there's this idea that you've brought up a few times of living from your deepest, most real authentic self. And when you bring your truth to life, if life doesn't react the way you might want, then that's, that's okay. Cause the truth remains and the path remains. And the question I have in here for you is really around this idea of truth and living a truth or speaking a truth and how to tell, uh, what Is that subconscious belief programming or fear or trauma speaking or living versus what is truth or authenticity living through you and and if there's an embodied felt sense of those things being different for you.

Mathew Hebert: Oh, absolutely. [00:41:00] It's not really, it's, it's, it's very hard to put into words because it's not a, it's not something you can feel or touch and perhaps that's what, uh, you know, we allude to as our soul or religion refers to as God. I'd like to just say the consciousness of the universe and, through that entire process that I just went through, as you become more in tune with the self, there is a resonance to everything.

 I think the language of the universe is frequency and vibration. And as you start to hone and refine your own tuning fork, you get a lot better at feeling situations through vibration and frequency. And you can just feel it in your [00:42:00] body. what feels right and what feels wrong. And there's not really a word for that.

You can say I feel good or I feel bad. I mean that pales in comparison to to, to what's actually taking place, but there becomes this intrinsic feeling, almost like if you were in a dark alley and you felt someone walking behind you are, fight or flight. In this, extremely Darwinian evolution type of way, the alarm bells start to go off.

 or if you're sitting in a beautiful meadow, listening to a river flow and there's butterflies flying around you, you haven't equal. equally profound reaction, and that's about as close to,, explaining what happens within the body. and when you get really good at it, those [00:43:00] reactions now become your subconscious programming through your own truth, and you're not even having to make conscious decisions anymore and stop and think.

Is this going to be good for me? Or is this going to be bad for me? You intuitively can feel it in your soul. And it becomes just such a very easy, , flow of, life. Once that takes place and, deciding, , which doors to walk through and, which path to choose. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: That was very cool. what you just said and It's not something that I've experienced, or maybe I have in little bits, but it sounds like is that what I'm referring to specifically is that moment or evolution where the subconscious programming becomes the, the feeling of rightness or wrongness like that, that knowing that intuition, that indescribable mystical [00:44:00] flow becomes just life and how you are embodied in life.

And yeah, it's not something I've. Fully embodied or experienced in all of my time on this planet yet, which is great because there's stuff to learn and places to go. so what is life like in that way of being? What do you find? Yeah, you know, if you can remember five years ago or 10 years ago, what feels different now?

Mathew Hebert: well, time is the great, the great teacher. And I have a couple of years on you, my young Jedi. And, it has been over the course of, time. that I've continued to refine that skill set. And I could make the simple analogy of of playing the violin or shooting a basketball. if you want to get really good at it, you've got to put in the hours.

It's not many people are are [00:45:00] given with The, the, the born gift to come out of the womb and play Mozart. It's, it normally takes thousands of hours of practice, but it is through that practice that, for someone who has been playing at a, at a concerto level or orchestral level for 30 years. It just becomes them and they could probably put that violin down for 10 years and pick it up and it's just like riding a bike and it's the same with developing that skill set for ourselves and moving it from the conscious into the subconscious programming where it just becomes you.

It takes a lot of time. And a lot of intention and a whole lot of love and, that's the word you'll constantly hear me come back to is, doing these practices and engaging in situations [00:46:00] through the most love that we can feel. And I do have a belief system around a conscious universe and the karmatic law.

 that we know all too well. And, I do believe that, over the course of the last five or 10 years, as my own capacity to love. has gotten deeper within myself and I'm able to handle situations, through love that perhaps I wasn't able to in past iterations of myself, that there is a, a very conscious universe that rewards that, tenfold.

And, How it feels is, living in, a beautiful state of gratitude and, just being very observant to the miracle of life. in every moment and, being open [00:47:00] to seeing and receiving all of the abundance that it comes with.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Yeah. Well said. I imagine, or I'll just speak about my own experience. I find it difficult to maintain that all the time. It's definitely there in me. And sometimes I feel this and I notice in my life when I am veering off of my rightness path, when I take a left turn and maybe drive for a year or six months in the wrong direction, the feeling and the felt experience of gratitude, of, of noticing the miracle of life lessens for me.

And there's something about that, that I feel you might have some things to say. 

Mathew Hebert: we have to fail in order to succeed. That is one of those oneness, duality, [00:48:00] same side of the coin things. And if we never try, then we never fail, then we can never learn from those experiences. And Lord knows I've failed infinite amount of times in my life.

 personally, professionally, relationships, but I fortunately within myself had the capacity to learn. And the desire to want to better myself. And there's that old saying, you can only take the horse to the water, but you can't make it drink. And, I've had the desire to drink my whole life.

I've had that fire within me, but people have to find that within themselves. And it is through. That constant refinement of the self, as I mentioned, over many years that will go with another analogy here. [00:49:00] When you, picture a labyrinth, this expansive maze that is our own life. And at the center is Valhalla, or whatever we want to call it, infinite love.

And, that's the end of our life, in human form at least. And, the more that as we start going through this labyrinth, we, as you mentioned, we tend to hit a lot of dead ends. And then you're kind of wasting time and you're having to double back to find the right path. but the goal is, through that personal refinement through love and through those, somatic energetic subconscious experiences now where we can, feel life better.

We are hitting less and less and less and less dead ends. And that creates a [00:50:00] fluidity of life that I do believe allows one to live in a space of mostly constant gratitude and, happiness and abundance and an observation of the miracle of everything. And it's funny, I actually had someone, a few weeks ago.

When I mentioned to them this type of concept, and they said to my face, and it wasn't offensive or anything. They just have never known this. They said, I don't think it's possible to feel that way. this particular individual just spent the last three weeks with me. And at the end of that time, they looked at me again and they said, it's possible.

I get it. And I said, me too. Yeah. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Oh, that's so good. Yeah. It's one of those things that I I've really learned from you and, and seen in you [00:51:00] too, there was that moment. I remember we were sitting. in Milan and eating pizza. And that was an awesome conversation. And one of the things that I remember from that conversation is just realizing that I think we were talking about you.

And I was like, is this guy real, you know, and, and is this possible? And just to actually like live in such a profound state of, Blissful gratitude, even through the trials and tribulations of your life, which are real, you know, they must be, you're human. And so, that's something that I really admire about you and, have strived to learn and embody and, Yeah.

It's really cool hearing about this person in your life too. 

Mathew Hebert: Yeah. And it all ties together, my friend. I mean, that is the process of, shedding the old and replacing the new and being able to come at life, from the most authentic [00:52:00] loving space that we can. and that's all it is.

the whole ball of, web, the whole, tapestry, everything is, interconnected as this Theme of, of oneness and the ability to feel that way, was taking all of those steps along the way and, being able to really develop new, new ways of, feeling love within myself and, also new neural pathways and ways of thinking, and exploring my own truth And being able to reframe things from a negative into a positive.

And it's really that simple instead of looking, at a situation, as being detrimental to my life, I say, okay, well, how can I overcome this obstacle? through love to the best of my ability with this incredible support system I've surrounded myself with. And, how can I learn from it?

And, in that way, there's also [00:53:00] a subconscious. Constant refinement, that takes place and you're always growing. You're always learning. You're always getting better and nothing is perceived as a failure anymore. Just opportunities to, learn and grow. And it's through that. reframing process that I think is able to keep me in, such happy spirits most of the time.

And, and in a state of, mostly constant gratitude for, the privilege of this life that we've been gifted. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: It's so beautiful. And it's wild to me that you're sub 40. On this, this lifetime. I'm so excited to know that you, you know, 

Mathew Hebert: like most there, but yeah, we, we will, 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: well, we will long. Um, yeah, it's, I'm just like feeling really called into [00:54:00] witnessing what we're talking about here and how.

It's like, I don't like using the word level because I don't love comparing self or, or ideas, but it's pretty high level, the stuff we're talking about, you know, in order to have a conversation like this, I think it requires having done a lot of those steps earlier around letting go around acknowledging the self and the lie and pivoting and all that stuff.

And, I guess that what I'm really curious about here is. If you were to, meet someone, along in this life journey or this, this person who you met, right, like what's the process by which someone who doesn't believe that life can feel this way can come into believing that life can feel this way?

Yeah. Well, I think first and foremost, the individual has to have the capacity to be able to learn and grow within themselves.

Mathew Hebert: The, you can take the horse to the [00:55:00] water, but the horse has to drink. analogy is so simple, and yet it's so true and so. No matter what I do. at the end of the day, that individual has to undergo that process within themselves, and if they're unwilling to or unable to, then it doesn't really matter what I am or what anyone else is anyways, right?

you know, you can, listen to. a thousand, Tony Robbins podcasts and you can drink ayahuasca a hundred times. but until you're willing to internally take the steps to change, all of that stuff is just wispy fodder out here. And, I was just myself. The whole time I really had to do nothing other than just be, and it was through the way that I've decided to live, and perhaps some of the [00:56:00] magnetism that I've gained along the way.

And, the way they were able to observe me in challenging situations, come at it from a place of love, was impactful, to this individual, where they were able to observe, ingest this information, and then realize they had the capacity. Within themselves, to change. And so, what is it all about, right?

when we think about these extraordinary figures throughout history, Buddha, Allah, God, Jesus, the list goes on and on and on, throughout, uh, human history. it comes back to love. And the more that we can embody that first and foremost for ourselves, then we can pour from a cup that's full and be expansive with it.

[00:57:00] We, need not have to do anything, but just be ourselves. And for the people that do have that capacity and desire to change within themselves, that's enough.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: There's two things in here. One, beautiful. I love what you said about the embodied love and just being yourself. And that's all that one needs to do. I think that's so true. And it's something I've, I hear from my clients that it's not always the questions I ask or the things I say, but the energy I bring into a space that is the healing part. it's the, The level of authenticity or love that we can carry in ourselves, in our bodies, and then burst with almost, so I just really appreciated that and counter on the other side of that for me, like in this [00:58:00] podcast is also this idea of just overthinking. You know, it's my first podcast back in a while.

And I'm like, Oh, what's the best question? What are the listeners going to think? You know, what's Matthew thinking? And then there's just letting that go and embodying a state of love, which is so much richer and, and more beautiful because. What will be said and heard and received and felt in that is, you know, transcendent to the best question that I could come up with from my rational self, from my thought brain.

Mathew Hebert: So, yeah, I think love is transcendent to life in general. I think because my belief system is that the language of the universe is vibration and frequency that this energetic field That we're putting out and that can be through a lot of different emotions. when it's done through this expansive love [00:59:00] that, it becomes eternal.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: I have a question for you. It's going back a little, that was really beautiful. And this is on the last thing you said. I just wanted to catch it, which is, you said, if people have the capacity or interest to learn or grow, then they will, if you, if the horse wants to drink, then it will.

I, I think that's true. And I also like. Seems kind of scary that some people might not have that, or not want to have that. And even in myself, I recognize that sometimes I don't want to have that. You know, sometimes I want to just dissociate and watch TV and not have to feel through the pain. And so I recognize in myself, that same horse who is sitting next to the water and being like, nah.

so I just, yeah, any pieces of thoughts, beliefs around that. 

Mathew Hebert: Sure life is best lived [01:00:00] in equilibrium in some kind of balance. And, I've even seen people in the spiritual community go too far, with the pendulum and, are too deep in the healing modalities to see the forest through the trees.

And so there has to be some level of balance. There has to be some level of time spent. alone feeling and discerning, those feelings, but there has to be some time for, healing as well. and perhaps some time to just switch our brains off and that's okay too. And all of that stuff lives in some level of equilibrium and in every person's life.

And it's about finding what works [01:01:00] for each individual, to be able to feel the hard stuff, to be able to really enjoy the beautiful stuff. And occasionally to be able to just say, screw it all and watch Netflix. You know, , I think we're constantly told, especially in, some of these spiritual communities that this is bad or that's bad, well, what is right and wrong anyways, and I always have thought.

That each human life is so unique. Each set of circumstances and what we inherit, is so unique that it really has to be felt and understood by the individual and every single person's journey, to get to that place. it's going to be, it's going to be different and we're very fortunate to have, a lot of tools and support systems today.

 but the, end, [01:02:00] product of, what someone is, going to ultimately become or not become is really on them and I think. In order to continue the personal ascension, as it were, that there has to be some level of balance, and that's with everything in life. If you're giving 90 percent to a situation that's only giving 10 percent back to you, unless you're a fool.

 you're probably not going to stay in that dynamic, and so that is a simple analogy for ourselves. If we're giving 90 percent to X, Y, Z, then we're only able to give 10 percent to something else, and that's an imbalance that rarely works, and it's up to each person, to figure out what that feels like for them.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Yeah, that feels really [01:03:00] real. And what you said in there is, we all have ownership of our own lives. And I really love how you put a lot of that because there was no judgment in there. I think that's something about you also I'm noticing is you're just not a very judgmental person at all.

And. this equilibrium or balance, you know, it's all okay. Like how it is now, we all are okay how we are now. And paradoxically, in that whole yin yang thing, there is an opportunity to grow, and there's an opportunity to elevate, and learn. And so, and I, I feel how difficult it is sometimes, like the real shedding process that happens hopefully many times in our lives.

And when I went through a coming of age program, when I was a kid, they described it as a crayfish shell, which I love because These crayfish get bigger and bigger and [01:04:00] over and over need to let their shells die and leave them behind in order to have a new one. And in that transition period, there's, there's just rawness, right?

There's no exoskeleton. And so in this shedding process, it's super vulnerable. It's super. dangerous even in a way, because it exposes our, ourselves to the world. And, I don't really know if I have a question here, but I just really appreciated what you were saying, because it's not, it's not so forceful.

I think that that's something that I've struggled with is this idea of maybe spiritual perfectionism or like rushing. 

Mathew Hebert: Well, the only thing we're forcing is ourselves. Where we are most of the time, our own worst enemy. And you mentioned the lack of judgment and that's been a learned practice for me. That isn't something that.

necessarily came [01:05:00] naturally. but first and foremost, as with everything that I've said today, it starts with the self and it's about releasing judgment or as the kids today would call FOMO. it's about releasing that for ourselves. And realizing that as mentioned, each human life is going to be so unique because of the, vastly different perspectives that we're, coming at life through and the things we're having to deal with, internally and externally that once we can, we can release judgment or FOMO for ourselves, we can then walk at our own pace and not feel rushed for anything based on, exterior circumstances.

And I think that's a really powerful thing that, [01:06:00] that, I've done my best to embody these days. is just, dancing to the beat of, my own DJ and hell with the rest, you know, I know that this is what I want and this is what I'm going to do. And, there's really no rush, to get anywhere as long as I'm staying intentional with, the things that I want to achieve.

within myself , and the exterior world. And, a lot of that has to do with just releasing the, judgment, for ourselves. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Yes. So much in there. There's a quote literally sitting on my, computer screen that says, do what I want and happily miss out on everything else. It's from Cal Newport.

I don't know if you know him, but just really exemplifies what you just said. And it also another story from my life popped up while I was listening to you of. walking the Camino in Spain, and everyone [01:07:00] walks at their own pace. And it was a big lesson for me that you're reminding me of, of some people are gonna pass me.

Some people are gonna fall behind some friends I might have for a period of time, and then they might want to go at a different pace or move to a different part of the journey. And there's this This releasing of the rest of the world, there's a release of control of everything else outside of oneself in order to simply just walk and enjoy the journey of life as it is.

But so, Being 

Mathew Hebert: able to stay present to the miracle of everything and, the rest of the noise is, is just that. And then you can sort of live in this constant state of gratitude. be thankful for the person that may come into your life for one minute or one day or [01:08:00] one year or the, the soft breeze that, that allows you to feel, some universal beauty that only lasts for 30 seconds.

 and I think it's, those, it's that intentional presence of sacredness that allows us to release that judgment. And, walk at our own pace, knowing that the, love and the, intention behind that love will, take us wherever we need to go. 

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: So beautiful. I'm getting the intuitive feeling that we're coming to a close on this conversation.

I don't really know why, but it feels like that's happening. before we do any, anything else that you want to share, anything you want to name or speak? 

Mathew Hebert: Well, I am just. Extraordinarily grateful for you, [01:09:00] for the opportunity to express myself, in, in such a wonderful way. And I couldn't think of doing it, with, a better human, someone I know that'll be in my life for, for, for many, many moons to come.

And just really feeling grateful for. All the things that have happened in my life, good or bad, that have led me to, being able to, speak from, from this type of place and space. And, you know, up upwards and onwards and here we go. And, let's. Continue the, building of, dreams and continue the unyielding support for each other.

And, if we can, if we can literally walk flow through life. [01:10:00] And try and think about leaving every situation, not just with a person, every flower we see, every tree we touch, every molecule of air that we flow through because of this frequency of love that this aura we've built around ourself. If we can leave each micro moment in a better place that we found, then we found it.

I think at the end of our breaths in this. iteration of conscious human life. , we can be thankful and we can think I had a life well lived.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: What!? That was so beautiful. I'm just like, I was feeling, I'm feeling that, , carrying ourselves with an aura of love through each micro moment of life so that we can leave everything a little bit better. [01:11:00] Wow. What, what an incredible philosophy and ethos to live with. Matthew, thank you for being here, , not just here on this podcast, but here.

in this life and present with me and with yourself. And, , yeah, I'm excited for more adventures to come with us. And 

Mathew Hebert: yes, sir. Look forward to seeing you down south soon. My brother love you. And, , yeah, it's, , , it's just a continuation of, , of everything that we discussed and, uh, just so grateful for you.

Faolan Sugarman-Lash: Likewise. 

Thank you, everyone, for listening. It's really nice to be back doing podcasts. I really enjoyed talking with Matthew. Yeah, as you can tell, he is so articulate in how he chooses his words and uses his language to describe things that are really hard to describe. So it was good to talk to him. if you'd like to follow up with either of us, feel free to email me at [01:12:00] hello at Phelan.

com and I can direct you to him. Phalen is F A O L A N. If you're interested, hello at phalen. com. And if you like the podcast, please follow it, subscribe, rate and review. and then also if you would like to follow along with my blog, which is also the same thing as the podcast, you can go to eatthestrawberry.

com and subscribe there. It's eatthestrawberry. com. Alright, I'll see you next time. Thanks.

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