Losing Control & Finding Freedom - The Stoic Paradox

Do you like being in control?

Do you sometimes feel out of control?

Would you like more freedom in your life?

Well, you're in luck because today's episode we're talking about letting go of control

and finding freedom, the Stoic paradox.

This is the extension so podcast, I'm Randy, that's Danny, what's going on Danny.

That's right.

We gotta shorten these.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, most people tune out before we're done with the title anyways.

Yeah.

Well, just put the whole thing in the title, you should start doing that.

Absolutely.

That's an interesting one because I mean, we were discussing beforehand what this actually

means, but I kind of see it clearly how most people like control, at least some semblance

of control in their life.

But oftentimes the less control you have, the more freedom you get.

People want both control and freedom and they don't really go hand in hand.

It's usually like opposite ends of the scale.

Well, yeah, control usually comes with restrictions, right?

And yeah, so it could be considered a Stoic paradox how letting go of control can actually

give you the freedom that you want in life.

Okay.

So like, for example, for example, you don't want to control everything because like people

say, oh, I love change, except for one is bad.

But like change is something that we want to control all the time.

People do crazy stuff to their face because they want to control the way they look.

They do crazy stuff at their job and all types of unethical stuff because they want to control

how much money they make.

So like people do all this crazy stuff to have control, but in doing so, they lose a lot

of freedom because you need to continue to grasp that control and that's something that

is completely out of your control.

Well, I think that, yeah, that's what I think is interesting is this idea that you know,

like hitting on a dichotomy of control, right, this idea that what most people are usually

trying to control are things we really can't, which is these things external to us.

Like you said, like how much money they're making, right, and taking any means necessary

to get there, you know, killing themselves to do it, right, or like aging, things like

that.

You know what I think about all the time is like this whole concept that we have of like

grinding and becoming better in life and making more money and all that stuff.

And we have, especially the people who have already made a lot of money.

They all say, yeah, if you don't have it, you're just not working enough, you're not

grinding enough.

But like we completely miss out that could just be a survivorship bias.

Like 100% could be and they're like, no, I mean, take it away and start over again,

I do it again, but you can't take it away because they have the connections, they have the

experiences, they have all the, yeah, it doesn't go away.

So it could 100% be survivorship bias.

Well, it is.

It's also ridiculous because it's also like you're, we have a tendency to when like with

things like that, we have a tendency to assume way more responsibility for things than we

actually had.

And I'm not saying that they didn't, like that people didn't work hard or didn't do something,

they must have done something, right, to have the opportunity and take advantage of it

when it came, but you miss out on all the luck, the, you know, the just basically chance

that played into that.

And I think that's more than anything most of the time because you know, most people,

I think about that a lot, right, like think of all the other people around at the same

time as these people that are now billionaires who were doing the same thing, working just

as hard and they didn't make it, right, because something failed or whatever.

So it's, yeah, but that's like that idea of control, trying to control the world, trying

to control everything and we lose our freedoms.

It is an interesting kind of conundrum, right, because the more we try and control what's

outside of us, I think the more we also, it's like you also can easily slip into other

side, which is like victimization, blame and stuff, because you don't, you don't have

control of these things, you're trying to control them, you can't, and then it's like

now you feel like a more trapped and less free than ever, right, yeah.

But so like on kind of in the same vein, you have to question like, well, do we actually

have free will?

Do we actually have freedom and because we can't control anything, but then do we actually

have free will or is that stuff going to happen anyways?

That's like a whole other topic.

I mean, I know we've done episodes on it.

I know.

I don't know.

You know, I thought about that so much and I don't know if we do.

I think it's like, I don't know if it's like, because you know, I was listening to

it.

You can't prove it.

No, I can't.

Well, experientially, we have no proof.

There's no proof of freedom experientially, right?

There's no way we can verify.

The only thing we have is our own self sort of like consciousness or awareness of

our self.

And the problem with that is, you know, it's like, there's that brain body connection,

right?

So it's like the brain thinks it's operating the machine, but there's actually intricate

connections between the two influencing each other.

So it's not even clear that that is what we take to be free is actually free.

It might just be that, you know, because I think sometimes if we didn't think of ourselves

as free or like, you know, we wouldn't assign responsibility.

We wouldn't, you know, we wouldn't probably be able to act in the world very well effectively.

And I think that's part of it.

It's like probably like more, you know, what do you call it, like an evolutionary thing

almost.

And it is actually a reality, maybe.

Yeah.

And then when I came out, like, it's just like a really good sentence completion engine.

But then I was like, well, isn't that kind of what we are too?

Isn't that what intelligence is, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it is funny when you think about that too.

Like I was, there was an interesting article on that talking about, you know, what is intelligence

and is that any different, like no one will come next and like being able to find things.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So then I like having control, but oftentimes I don't, and I like having freedom, but

oftentimes I don't.

And maybe it's just being content with however things are.

Maybe that's more of the key.

Oh, I think that's sometimes, I think freedom sometimes is that, right?

It's like letting, because think about it, right?

Like when we want to control the outside world or things that are literally outside of

our control, like other people, you know, work, whatever, you know, how things play out

in the world, like the state of affairs, I think we got caught up in it.

But when we let that go, it's like, that is freeing because now all you have is, you know,

you to worry about in a sense and what you can do.

And it's like taking things more in stride, I guess would be a way to think of it or

as they come.

That kind of gives us, because I feel like I do, I feel like I get there sometimes.

When I'm in that state, I feel like I'm very happy and then like, you know what I mean?

Like when I'm not trying to control everything around, I mean, I'm not trying to influence

all these things and I realize like what I have power over, it's very freeing to realize

that, hey, I can't change that crap.

All I can do is do what I'm doing, right?

And you know, look at like my attitude, my responses, the things, how I'm like what

I'm actually physically doing, everything else I can't do anything about.

So it's kind of green because it sets, it kind of pushes that responsibility or that,

that need, I guess, to be responsible for away from us and it frees us from that kind

of burden.

You know, there's, there's an analogy that I was just thinking of, like water, because

everybody always, and you know, makes analogies with water, like be water my friend and everything.

Well, that was, that was love, it's a great, it's a great way.

Yeah.

So like, I love to watch people swim because most of the time they just look like drowning

monkeys.

They're like doing so much stuff to stay afloat and it, and they're like gulping up water

while doing it.

And it's just very entertaining because like, when I learned, I used to swim like that too

until I did a triathlon and then I was like, oh my gosh, that just like destroys you

if you try it.

Super inefficient.

Yeah.

So then I learned this total immersion swimming method that's basically all about just

floating.

And it's like the, the easiest swimming thing ever because if you just let go of control,

like stop trying to control everything about swimming, then you essentially just float

and there's no energy involved in swimming.

Oh, like letting, letting the water do the work basically, kind of like control.

Let the water hold you instead of trying to hold yourself up on the water.

Well, I think this is like, that's very similar like with the Dallas talk about, right?

With like the going with the natural flow of the universe versus going against it.

Most of us think of control as literally going up the river against the current all the

time.

And then like control is just forcing one leg after the other right pushing against it.

When a reality, we're just making our life harder and harder and harder because if we turned

around and went with the current right and let the, let the water just do what it was doing,

we're carried with it that way.

It's so much easier to move.

And I think that's like, yeah, very good analogy with the swimming, right?

It's like the idea that we could, the freedom that comes with that because now we're not

worried about trying to push against everything or actually acting with it.

I like that.

I knew that because I've been pushing against the water a lot to pass a couple of days.

We all do, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's, it's very much to like, I think that's very much also like, I'm very much

socially, you know, learned to because the way our culture and stuff, we, this, especially

the US, the individualism and the idea that you can kind of do anything and you just

got to work hard enough and you just got to do this and that and all.

And it like, it really does kind of screw up your perspective because it makes it seem

like you have power over everything, like you have power over the way the world works.

And it's just that you're not doing it right or you're not doing it hard enough and it

really misses like luck and all this other stuff, you know, and I think, well, yeah, I

was thinking about that too because I mean, granted, yeah, sure, if you keep at it forever

eventually, one of the times it'll turn out.

But it's for people to say that like if it, if it hasn't worked out yet, it's because

there's something you did.

It's just naive.

Yeah.

And it's also just like, also to a certain point, like it's like, is that what you want

to?

Like is that what you want for life just to keep pushing and pushing?

And like, you know, like maybe it's something else you've been doing, right?

Maybe there's, maybe you are pushing against the wrong thing.

You're working against the current.

I mean, I think that's also the other thing is like, if we can take our step step back

and trying to control things, we have no control over, it also gives us an opportunity

to think and maybe figure out what's actually better for us anyway.

And so it won't be such a struggle because that's the other side of it too.

It's like, I mean, there is truth, there is some truth, right?

That like, if you're not doing this stuff, when opportunities come, you can't take advantage

of them.

Like if you're not, you know, if you're not actively doing things or whatever, have the

skills or whatever, that's true.

But you know, I think we also lose sight of a lot of stuff when we're trying to force

everything because we're so focused on that stuff, we're not really living our lives,

we're not present, we're constantly looking at goals beyond things, you know, being

to satisfy it's, yeah, it's hard to, it's hard to live.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb here.

I've been listening to this stuff by Neville Goddard, who basically talks about making

the assumption that everything is always working out for you.

Like as your base assumption for all reality, and then eventually the world will do it.

And you can't prove otherwise that things wouldn't work out that way.

But like, we struggle all the time thinking that it's up to me when it could just not be

up to us.

Yeah.

Kind of nothing to do with us in some cases, right?

Yeah.

You know, it's funny.

It's like, oh, you know, it's, it is we're like, how many times have things happened that

are positive but seemingly randomly, you know?

It's like, or how many times do bad things happen that five, ten years later, you look

back and be like, you know, that was really good.

Yeah, exactly, right?

Because you learned a lesson or it helped you realize something important and fix something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's the other problem, right?

Like the story we tell ourselves to is in retrospect.

Like we don't, we usually don't know what any of this crap means in the now.

It's only later when we look back and we put it in terms of our whole life that we make

sense of it.

And then there's meanings change every time anyway.

So it's like really, you know, we can control that.

I guess we can control our narrative to some extent, but, you know, we can't really control

like what's happening or what the future is going to hold for us because we don't know.

But we try really, really hard to do that.

Yeah, because it seems like we should, I guess, yeah, I guess it's more of like our western

way of thinking.

Well, I think that's a big part, but that's also infected so many other places too that

I think that's the other problem, right?

What's like, it's like we were saying before we got on, it's like, it's also just like

thinking.

Consciousness sucks sometimes.

It is the problem, right?

Like being aware of all this stuff because you know, you're also aware that's the other,

I think that's the other hard part is like, we're also made aware all the time by everything

of what we don't have, right?

And so of what we could have of what without like, you know, all these like images we see

of people's lives, carry it in like the ultra wealthy and all that crap and celebrities

and stuff.

We're constantly showing like what you could have, only the X, Y, or Z or whatever and

it's like, well, that also makes it hard because it feels like even that, you know, yes.

And then people talk about it and they make it seem like it's in their control that they

got that.

And so yeah, it makes it a very test point too.

You know what I was thinking about this past week is like the whole concept of like

dieting and people thinking that if someone's not a certain weight is because they're not

dieting.

But it's like for literally the whole entire history of humanity, people were on the

verge of emaciated and then all of the sudden in the past 20 years, people have like ballooned

up.

So it can't be a change of like will.

It's not like people had, well, it's like, well, back in, you know, you know, when

people were probably people and was every star, right?

Because like, that happens and you know, it's funny.

Well, that's also why you know, you look at the old painting boil your shoes, you know,

you look at the old paintings.

Now, if I all like the, you know, beauty was defined by, you know, wealth.

So it was the heavier people because that was the people who had the money, you know?

And it's, yeah, it's kind of interesting.

And it's also probably was healthy looking, right?

Because some happened.

You had excess.

You could like, me get through and that's the other problem too that we changed things

so much in the world, like from a, like in the human world all the time.

And very quickly often, because of technology, the world, our world changes, but we're, we

don't change that fast.

The what wear is the same for the past.

Yes.

So adjusting to that, adapting that takes time.

I think that's the other thing, right?

We have all this stuff that like supposedly makes like easier, but also rods of our freedom

as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was, I got stuck in kind of like overwhelm again the past couple days because I just got so

many things out.

It happens to me all the time.

It's so easy to be up to so many things at once and be making progress in all of them,

but feeling like you're just spinning your wheels.

Well, because if you're doing too much, you're never really getting that far in anything

right?

Or you're not seeing the type of progress I guess you want or whatever.

It's hard because it's like, yeah, you have hobbies and stuff and like, and everything

else.

You do all these things and time and yeah, responsibilities and stuff.

It's very difficult.

Uh-huh.

But that's just it.

When you try to control things, I think you create more responsibilities that you tie

yourself into and then you don't have time for the other stuff.

Well.

All right.

Well, anything else?

No.

There you have it.

Very close anyway.

Very close anyway.

Freedom solved.

Never again.

Just let go.

Never again.

Yeah.

Yep.

That's the Buddhist way, the heart of non-clinging.

Yeah.

What's the point anyways?

Yeah.

What's the point?

We're all going to die.

Even the people who want to extend their life forever and do all types of crazy things

they're going to die to do.

Uh, yeah.

I think Marcus Aurelia said something like that where he's like, what's the point of living

three days or 300 for like, especially who's talking about those guys who would have

like crazy injuries from war, they would be gourd by a bull or something like that.

And he's like, what does it matter?

Because we're all just going to die anyways.

We did.

Yeah.

That's the point.

Uh, this is the Accentral Stoic podcast.

Until next time, I'm Randy.

That's Danny.

I'll see you later, Danny.

Later, Andy.