Long Run 258 Keira Henninger

All right, you guys. This is going to be a long run episode of me and race director, Kira Henninger.

She is one of the best race directors. She's somebody that I really look up to.

She's found a way to professionalize the sport and make these races top notch.

I've done two of her races. They were both incredible. I did the Sean O'Brien and I did the Ray Miller.

But we talk about her races. We talk about race directing, how she came into it, all those sorts of things.

Just a little bit about her life and things like that. But she's somebody that I really admire and that I have always wanted to interview.

And I'm really glad that I got a chance to and to bring her story to you because you guys might be looking for a race.

And I'd like to do a travel race.

Boy, go out to L.A. Do one of these races. You will not regret it. They are an awful lot of fun and very, very challenging.

I also wanted to point out that our episodes, the setback to the starting line have begun.

I've done, I've recorded two, released them. One was just me and my coach, the other we involved the PT.

I'm also going to interview another guy that had the same surgery as me who got back to running at a elite level.

And we're going to find someone that had the same surgery as me that didn't have a good result.

So a little bit of that and then just a lot of coaching. Like how do you start from nothing?

You know, how do you start it? Like today my workout was one mile on the treadmill, quarter mile at 8% grade, quarter mile at 6, quarter mile at 4, quarter mile at 2.

That was my whole workout. You know, I had to like get pumped up to go do it.

And it's kind of hard when you're used to, you know, you know, a normal day like today, back when I was a regular running person, I would run, you know, 10 miles at like, you know, eight to nine minute pace.

And today I'm 17 minute mile on the treadmill, but that's how we build back.

And you know, we did have a post in the Facebook group about people that are having a comeback and boy, there are a lot of people that are in the same boat trying to get back.

So if you if that's you, listen to those set back to the starting line episodes and get better with me.

And maybe maybe we'll all end up at a race together someday talking about how we can't believe we got back.

Speaking of races, the races are all filling up. And I think there's like 50 spots left in two sugar badger spots.

The 100 mile badger is about half full. So people are signing up every day and don't be that person that emails me.

We have a generous deferral policy. We'll give you back, we'll give you back credit to use for any other race for any reason or no reason, but sign up.

Don't contact me after the deadline and say, oh, I thought I had more time.

Other than that, I think that's all I have to talk to you about. And hopefully you guys are all having a great day. And thanks for being my running friends and filled with optimism finally for the first time in a while.

Good stuff. Let's go running with Kira Hanger. Here we go.

Ty one thing. I wouldn't be doing all this without you guys. That's for sure.

Don't want for 10 jot miles. I would have become a recreational biker and said screw this running. It's too hard.

Sometimes I feel like I'm recovering from me and you.

There's hope you guys just go do the work.

Yes or lottery too, because I did Craig Thornley like last week. So I'm doing all the race directors now. This is kind of exciting.

Oh, that's so cool. And it's not recorded, right? Not that I care, but I it's just the voice recording, not video, right?

Correct. Correct. Yeah. I mean, I put I put the camera on in case anybody wants to see me. And sometimes it, you know, gives you cues and things like that. But I don't produce the video at all. I just produce the audio.

Cool. Okay. So yeah. How are you?

I'm really good. How are you? Excellent.

I was I've been wanting to interview you for a long time. You were one of my first race directors, one of the first people that I met at a finish line ever.

And also I was so excited. Like my heart literally skipped a beat when you signed up for the race. And I was just like so excited you were going to come because I was like to ask, you know, like, how am I doing? And what are you thinking?

Do you have any good ideas and stuff like that? So I owe you a race. And someday if you ever want to do it, you should come because it's a lot of fun.

Oh, you're so sweet. I mean, absolutely. Like it is on my list. And I it like my husband's family so many live there in Wisconsin. So we were going to be there at that time. So I promise you, I will be at one of your races. They look like so much fun. Scott.

Yeah, they are. I mean, it's it's it's a good time. It's it's not hard. It's not beautiful. There's no nor there's no climbing. It's just it's just a good time. That's all it is.

And I'm well aware of your husband. I have another ultra running friend. Her name is Robin Grappa and she is from Phillips Wisconsin. And we always refer to Jesse as the he's the king of Phillips Wisconsin. So yeah, there's more than one.

Oh, my gosh, that is so awesome. Yeah, I just noticed too on is it's okay. I just have my picture on it. I don't know why I'm not trying to not show you myself personally.

Yeah, it doesn't matter to me one way or another. I mean, you can. I don't know why it's like that. And I don't know how to undo that. So let me see if I can push a button. Maybe that'll make that happen.

Okay, let's see. That's it.

Perfect. Yeah, why it was it was said to that. Okay. Yeah. So do you guys get up there a lot to Phillips?

We do. So mom, my husband's mom still lives on the property up in Phillips that Jesse, you know, grew up on. So yes. And she absolutely adore her. I love her so much. So she's still in Phillips and we go there at least like once a year. Yeah.

And he's a beautiful born and raised in Wisconsin guy born and raised in Wisconsin. He was. Yeah. Does that make him a packer fan?

No, if you can believe it. So they lived in Chicago for a little bit of his childhood. And him and his brother are super hard.

Hardcore bear spans and Cub spans Chicago. And his brother, who's just a little younger than him lives in Chicago and is a die hard sports fan. But they do.

They do like Green Bay, but Chicago is their team. Do you guys come here to Chicago to see him?

We guess we have. Yeah. Yeah, not a lot, but we have. Yeah. If you're ever in Chicago, let me know that's where I live. I live downtown Chicago.

Oh, okay. So I grew up in in outside of Milwaukee. My races are over by medicine. But I live now since law school, I've lived in Chicago. So I'm like a Chicago guy.

But I also have really good Cubs. They can still so if you guys are passing through and you want to go to a Cubs game, take my seats and go to the game.

Oh, my that, that would be absolutely wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And Jesse's sister lives in sun prairie.

Okay, over by all your events. That's why wanting to your events right by Madison. Yeah. So he has seven siblings. So anyways.

Yes. Okay. So and I look, I look, you, you have a lot of races now.

How many altogether?

So we have 11 and we just added one more that's coming up.

So in a nutshell, we had a race called Samo that started and finished at Will Rogers State Park. It burnt down. So that went away. And then we brought back this 24 hour race at Will Rogers State Park.

A lot of the trails burned, but there's a two mile loop that isn't burned. And so the park asked me to do something there to like bring it back to life kind of.

So we went from 12 to 11. And I guess now we're back to 12.

So I can't keep up. So that's a time event.

Yes, it's a 24 hour, 12 hour, six hour. But we do. I did offer. So I have to tell you Scott. It's the first time I've put on a timed event.

None of my events otherwise. I've never done a timed looped kind of situation.

So we did add like a 10k half, you know, 30k, 50k, like just do the loops.

But then also, yeah, 24 hour, 12 hour, six hour. So I'm excited. Yeah.

It's, it's fun. It's for me. I have the, I have the 48 hour, 24 hour.

But it also have the last person standing going on at the same time.

Yes. Okay. Okay. It's fascinating to watch because there's like one group of people that don't give a shit about what the time says.

Because they just, they got their 48 hours and they're going to do what they feel like doing.

And then the other group of people are just all they can think about is this hour.

When is the hour and how many minutes do I have left? How many minutes do I have to get?

You know, and it's like two different mindsets watching. And it's the most fun as a race director.

Because you usually are, you know, you go to the finish. You don't get to see people.

And in that event, that 24 hour event, you're going to see people all day and people are going to stop and talk to you.

And, you know, it's like, it's not just because you know, some, I always compare it to like a wedding.

You know, like, let's say you come next year and you do the badger 100.

I'll be excited to know that you're there.

I'll try to find you at some point to say hi to you. I'll see you at the finish line.

And when it's all over, I'll be like, Jesus, I didn't talk to her at all.

You know, I feel bad that I didn't get to school. You know, it's like all these people come to do my thing.

And I spend zero time with them because I'm doing other stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. You know what's so funny, Scott?

Is I always tell people that putting on a race people are like, isn't it hard that you took your passion and made it your job?

Like, does it make you? I said, no, no, no, I said, I am a professional wedding planner for 500 little bratty bridesmaids on their wedding day.

Like, that's my job and and planning everything around that.

I'm like, it's really like not a lot to do with running, but a lot to do with running.

So I love that you just use that comparison. Yeah. Yeah.

It's so true. I just I'm the way home.

I'm always thinking about all the people that I see once a year and I never get this many time with them.

So, but that changes in that time to that.

You really get to hang out with people, which is kind of a fun feature.

Oh, I'm so excited. Yeah. It'll be totally new for me.

So I'm going to channel your professionalism at that because I'm a little nervous.

I've never done anything like it, but yeah, I'm excited.

And it's interesting that there was a fire because so me and Thornley,

one race we both did.

Ray Miller, like 2012.

And he did a 50 K and I did a 50 mile and then there was a fire right after that.

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, is that how often does that happen?

Oh, I mean, we can go down the rabbit hole.

So, okay, little story about so when the fire happened for Ray Miller in 2013.

And I was, you know, heartbroken devastated all of the things.

And I was running with my friend, Sean O'Brien.

And those trails were closed.

And I said, what am I going to do?

He said, well, I had this 50 mile route that I run that I,

it's like a 50 mile training run that I do to train for Angela's Crest 100 mile.

And this was back in 2013, long after the Ray Miller fire.

And he's like, let's go run it.

So I think it'd be a perfect, you know, substitute to since Ray Miller's gone,

me not thinking, I thought that point Mugu State Park and Ray Miller would be closed

and gone for such a long time.

So we go run this, I go run this 50 mile route with Sean O'Brien.

And I'm like, I have to put on a race here.

This is the perfect route.

So I create the race jokingly named the race after him, Sean O'Brien.

And then the parks email me and, you know, say, hey, bring Ray Miller back.

I got the park open pretty quick and gave me a special use fire permit.

And so that, that is the story of how I ended up with Ray Miller and Sean O'Brien.

But to piggyback on what you were asking about the fires, that kind of is how it just is.

I mean, Leona divide the original course.

We had a fire, moved it to the new, we called it the new course that we use from 2014 to 2022.

And then in 2023, I really wanted to bring back the original course and all of the trails had opened.

And so now we're back on the original course, which is they intersect a little bit, but it's just wild.

So we're basically always dodging around like fires.

And, and the thing that is interesting about a fire, if it happens in a state park or like parts of Sean O'Brien and Ray Miller run on national park service land.

So they're really quick to reopen the trails, to get them cleaned up, to get them rebuilt.

Because a trail doesn't burn everything else burns around it, but you can still see the trail.

So it's like it looks like moon dust, but the trail is there.

But what is top is the US forest service. So they will close an area and they're like kind of close it for a few years.

And that would be Leona divide.

They gave me a special use. We've had a we had a fire in 2013 on Leona divide.

And then there was a fire in 2018.

It's just been a lot of fires. It's been yeah, interesting.

So then as a race director, are you like when you're out doing these races, are you thinking the what if are you?

Are you have a contingent plan like if there was a fire, this would be another way that I could do it. This would be another way I could do it.

Yeah, you know, we've had to adopt a policy that if the race is canceled because of a fire, you will absolutely have a full credit till we come back.

But like that actually has to be one of our, when you sign up, you have to agree, yes, there's a chance that this race course can burn down.

And there's a fire and it's postponed, you know, and we're very, I'm very blessed to have a lot of races so we can funnel entrance into another event.

If that happens, but as you understand, you know, it's a, it's a business and especially if the fire is a couple weeks before a race, everything set.

And so last year there was a fight, the fires in Malibu, two weeks before Sean O'Brien, it did not burn the Sean O'Brien course, but the entire palisades burned down.

And half from like Malibu, I mean, it was unbelievable.

So I didn't think, I didn't see that it was the right choice to have the, have the race. Everything was really, it was bad.

And so we postponed it till like February. So we postponed it by three weeks.

And there's a lot of people that couldn't make the new date. And so we offered a full roll over to the next year.

But we still had the race. And because it was two weeks before, you know, everything was set in place and paid for. So it's, it's always something that I'm dealing with.

And it's just part of the job, you know, yeah, it's interesting.

Yeah, well, Sean O'Brien was the second race that I did of yours. So I've done two.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was almost the last place finisher in both of them.

What distance did you do at Sean O'Brien?

50 mile.

Oh, okay.

And I was like, you know, you'd be second to last, third to last, like right in there.

Oh, I love that you did that race. You know, people totally underestimate Sean O'Brien.

You know what makes Sean O'Brien so tough?

And this what people don't understand is that, you know, it's just up and down big ups, big downs.

It's not technical at all. So, and there's a lot of downs, you know, early on.

So you're blowing out your legs and you just don't realize it.

Especially like if you're leading Canaan at mile 13.

And then you just have that sweeping zoom of fire road for about six and a half miles.

And you go from like really high in the Santa Monica Mountains, relatively speaking to the beach.

Like you can see the ocean when you come down to the AIDS station just above it.

And so it's like, man, people just don't understand you blew your quads.

And that's the hardest part because if you're in the 50 mile or 100 K, you have to survive to the end.

Well, that got me and it seemed like in the second half there was an awful lot of just being exposed in the sun.

Yes. I was 100%.

Yes. But I love that. I mean, I love those.

So my Ray Miller story.

So I would, I did like a Blake front 50 here and I finished in like eight hours.

Then I go do Ray Miller and I'm like, oh, this is going to be easy.

You know, like I'm, you know, you can be 14, 15 hours. I'm fine. Whatever.

And I haven't told this story in the podcast for a long time.

So some people won't be, you know, pissed that they have to be here.

So I go to read, I don't know anything about Ray Miller. I know anything about California.

I've never seen, I've never run out of mountain. I don't know shit. I know nothing.

And I signed up because I was going to do my first 100 and I thought this looks hard.

It's a hard 50. Maybe I'll go do it.

So I signed up for Ray Miller the day before I went to the trailhead because I wanted to kind of get a sense of like how high these hills are.

And you know, like how much climbing is involved. And you know that last hill that you come down at the end, the last little hill.

I climbed to the top of that hill thinking that was as high and as steep and as much climbing as there was.

And when I got to the top, I was like, well, this isn't bad at all.

And I ran out of the bomb. I'm fine. I'll go the next morning.

So I went to Ray Miller and I think what you need to understand the background is at that time, Jimmy Dean Freeman was like.

He was like, you know, Karim Abdul Jabbard. He was like the greatest hero in the world.

And all I wanted to do was meet him. And I was so excited that I was like in the same race as him.

And I was really looking forward to meeting him. I start the race.

We do that that first climb. And by about the time I got up to the very first climb, I knew I was just screwed.

Like I have no idea what I'm doing. This is way harder than I thought.

Way more than I anticipated.

I threw out all my plans, you know, oh, how I was going to finish.

I felt really bad. And I kept running into people and they'd be like, you're from Chicago.

What are you doing here? This is really our race.

And it just kept making me feel worse and worse and worse.

Anyway, I am. You know that super, the super, super long climb, like kind of in the middle.

Yes. The biggest climb.

I met, I'm not saying yes, yes, yes.

I met Pat Swini for the first time.

And he took me aside. And he's, you know, he's become like a good friend.

He stayed at my house, you know, over the years, but he took me under his wing on that climb.

And he's going to talk me to the top.

And he spent the whole climb with me, telling me stories and helping me get to the top.

And then he promised he would introduce me to Jimi Dean Freeman at the end.

So at the very next aid station, Pat Swini's there, he said, just so you know, Jimi Dean dropped.

My, my drop bag was the wrong drop bag. It didn't have the stuff that I needed in it.

I kind of like the whole, the all the wheels fell off that race.

And at the very end, I was like barely jogging down that last hill, practically in tears.

Just thinking, I don't know what I got myself into.

I got my metal from you. I went to the car. I cried really hard.

And then, and then I wanted to sign up for another 50 mile race right after that.

So it was just like the total, the best experience you could ever have.

Like totally kicked my ass. And then I just wanted more right away.

You know, like I, I learned that I didn't know anything at that race.

That was like my, my coming to age in ultra running.

So.

Yeah.

I know that that story is from so long ago.

Like we're such a cage races is such a well oiled machine now.

But you were with me in the rookie years.

Like I was just a baby just learning it all.

How old was the race that the first year was 2011 2011?

I believe.

So you were, you were in the second year.

Really?

And at that time, did you have just that race?

Leona divide was my first race that I ever acquired.

It was gifted to me.

So in 2008 and 2009, I sort of took over as the volunteer coordinator for Glenda Kimberly.

And at the time, she was like 60.

And her and kind of the people that did put on that race were all in their 60s.

And they were just done with it.

And so then in 2009, she said,

will you take it over entirely?

I'm just going to give it to you.

We don't want to do it anymore.

And I remember I just couldn't believe it.

I was like, what do you mean you're just going to give me this race?

And she said, well, you just did such a good job with the volunteer coordinating.

And I, and she really like walked me through it all and helped me so much.

It was, it was, it was my destiny.

I know that, you know, and in deep in my heart, it was everything I was meant to do.

And it just the way it came together so wild to me.

So yeah.

But Leona was the first one.

Everything else I've built from the ground up.

And that was in oh nine.

Oh nine.

I was a head volunteer coordinator in 2010.

I took it over myself.

Okay.

Without.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you had already been ultra running for not that long.

A few years at that point.

Not that long.

I think late 2005.

I did my first 50 K.

So yeah, it was like just a grassroots backyard 50 K here.

And then so yeah, not that long.

And that's in.

Did you, are you born and raised in Southern California?

Is that?

Yes.

What's that Orange County?

Yeah, we're in South Orange County.

So all of my, I do have a few races that are kind of right out my backyard.

The bulk of my races that I built and that have had the longest Leona,

Ray Miller, Sean O'Brien, Griffith Park, those are not close to my house.

So like you, they're not near me.

But yeah, born and raised in SoCal.

I was born, I was born at Palomar Hospital and raised in Temecula,

which is like kind of East Riverside County.

Oh, anybody's listening.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, you're kind of like in the middle of everything.

Like, you know, Palm Springs LA,

San Diego, right in the middle.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it was a really great week.

I grew up in the wilderness.

So where our house backed up to the San Mateo wilderness.

And you know, all I did was play outside and trails as a little girl.

So for me, it was great.

It definitely was how I became addicted to the outdoors and the wilderness.

Yeah.

Did you find ultra running the way normal people do?

You know, you ran in high school.

You, you know, started doing five Ks marathon.

Like, what was your progression?

How'd you find it?

Yeah.

So I did run in high school,

but I had a severely traumatic and abusive childhood.

So for me, I turned 18, had my son at a very young age,

not to just the year after I graduated high school.

And I started to jog with him in a baby jogger.

And the running for me became my therapy.

And it just, you know, it just went from there.

I was pretty early, pretty young, starting in ultra marathons.

I did, I did a few marathons,

but it wasn't too long by like my late 20s that I was running ultra's.

And it just became, I look back and I spent just hours running, hours training.

And most certainly became like the healer of the childhood trauma.

You know, like when you said that,

so I have a lot of childhood trauma,

sexual abuse, surviving from my father,

and you know, just a lot of horrific things in my past.

And it has, you know, I just got done talking to a therapist about,

like maybe every 10-ish years,

I have like a PTSD flare up kind of coming back from that.

And one of the things that we talked about is that I loved,

what I love about ultra running is that when I'm doing it,

there's no other noise.

Like it's, it's all I can do to focus on that,

and that it kind of closes everything out around me.

Is that something that you can relate to or that you found in,

in why you enjoyed running or no?

That is every reason why I enjoyed and loved running,

still loved running.

And it absolutely became my outlet.

I would just run for hours and,

and to be totally honest with you, Scott,

when I first started running and like my first ultra I did,

I was kind of in the middle back, like I wasn't fast,

but then it was just that hours and hours of training

and it became, you know, and healthy eating

and I sort of learned myself.

Okay, I can really do this,

but I didn't even realize, at the time,

I was completely self-healing myself.

And that was, that it's exactly everything that you said.

And I think that that's why I love putting on races so much,

is that I know that when people come to an event,

it's an escape.

They're going to come there and, you know,

the trail running community is so welcoming and so loving

and you're going to show up and the guys that are doing parking,

they don't care where you come from,

what your beliefs are, like they're going to,

they're going to help you park all the same.

The gals that do my check-in and the volunteers there

and my finish line staff are going to love you all the same.

We're going to get you checked in and everybody just loves everybody

and you're going to get on those trails

and the volunteers are going to bring you in an aid station

and love you with open arms and, you know,

fill up your pack and handheld and that whole day,

we are going to take such a good care of you

but you're going to be able to escape

and all that's going to matter is you're going to be on that trail

and in that place and being able to just be in that moment

and I believe with all my heart that long distance trail running

is one of the few things that can,

can help you do that.

It's like you're just there in the moment

and you're trying to get through mile by mile

and the world shuts off

and I used to say,

and I've heard a lot of younger people saying this now

but way back in the day,

I used to always say like,

going for a run clears your mind

but like running 100 miles clears your soul

and it's just so true

and that's what I love to give to people

and I just love my job so much

and I just think that it helps us shut off the noise.

Yeah, let me sit a lot there.

Did you transition right from bad childhood to running

or did you go down the bad path for a while

and then self correct with running

because it sounds like you found just the thing,

you know, at just the right time.

Yeah, I love that question.

I was very lucky that I had a baby at 19

because he was my saving grace.

So I never went down the bad path.

The never drugs, never alcohol like stuff like that

because I was a mama and when he came into the world

I had never felt love like that my whole life.

So he was the first thing that showed me unconditional love.

I couldn't believe I loved something so much

and so I took right to motherhood

and his dad is wonderful.

We're like best friends.

And we were just kids, you know,

but he stepped up too and he comes from a wonderful family.

So I had a good support system on his side.

And so I think I always tell my son like you saved me

because I don't even know where I would have been.

And I have siblings that my brother in, you know,

in and out of being incarcerated his whole adult life.

And, you know, just on and on.

And I just feel so lucky that that little baby

came into my life and saved me.

Yeah, who's he always a 29 year old grown man.

But I think that and that everybody's not that, you know, lucky.

I just thank God every day that I didn't end up down that path.

Yeah, I went drugs and alcohol first.

Like I went hard the wrong way and then corrected through school

and then didn't really find running until like after law school.

So I was, you know, that wasn't a runner.

This was, this is all new to me.

Um, yeah.

Um, but yeah, that is, it is kind of interesting.

And how did you then get into running and trail running

and all that while you had a newborn baby?

So while my first, can you hear me?

Okay, Scott 100%.

Okay.

Is it, can you hear the noise in the background or no?

Nope.

Okay, cool.

Okay.

Um, so the first like for me that really to be very transparent,

I started running with that baby jogger to get the weight off.

So I ran in high school, got pregnant really young, gained a lot of weight.

So for me, it was like a, I just wanted to lose weight.

But then that having that jogger and being able to run.

I mean, we, I would run for hours.

But I didn't run my first ultra.

I did a couple road marathons with super slow loved them.

Did a couple half marathons, just all local.

I did the San Francisco marathon.

But, um, I, I, when I started really running a lot before I had run

an ultra marathon, but just running alone for hours.

I was always at the running store, getting new running shoes.

And I met a gal named Michelle Barton.

And she introduced me.

She was just, oh, I see running everywhere.

You should do a 50 K.

So it was, I have to give her credit where credit is due.

Yeah.

So that was how I ended up running my first 50 K.

It was a local 50 K.

And she told me about it.

And I signed up like the blind leading the blind.

And for people that are listening, you should look up Michelle Barton.

She's an epic runner and absolute legend.

Yeah.

She worked right here at the local running store.

This was 2005.

What was the run story?

It was fleet feet.

It was fleet feet in Laguna, Nagel.

Okay.

Very nice.

Yeah.

I had a client in Laguna, Laguna, Nagel.

And as a young lawyer, I had to go there.

I don't know what was this maybe like 2000.

I had to stay at the, uh, in Costa Mesa.

Cause we had a big lawsuit involving the, um,

Deloitte and Tush office down there.

And I discovered that running path on the Belbow pier where that.

It's like, uh, like where that island is.

I went down there and ran.

I was like, this is the greatest thing.

They have like an A meeting at the, like the second fire pit on Tuesday nights.

And it's like running up and down that thing.

It was like, this is amazing.

That was just one of my favorite places to run.

I actually went back there for my home.

It's one of my favorite places to run.

I actually went back there for my honeymoon and stayed there.

Like some of the first few days.

Cause I love that, that little running path right there.

I think it's amazing.

Yeah.

It is so pretty.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I actually, so I, my aunt lived on Belbow Island, which is over there in Newport Beach.

And so I used to spend the summers with her at her house to kind of get away from my home and childhood.

And so I know that area very well.

It's too far for me, but so pretty.

Yeah.

For sure.

Okay.

So you, Michelle Barton and at the time would she into ultra running by then?

Yes.

She was.

So she was kind of winning any 50k that she had told the line to.

Yeah.

She was a rock star.

Yeah.

She had to have been like a huge outlier in the sport at that time too, because it was more of an older people sport.

And she had to have been really young compared to all the other people in sport.

Yeah.

And she was, she was absolutely just incredible.

And if people don't know her, they're probably, she has this long red hair.

Like dip.

And she's like barely five feet tall.

I think she probably weighs 90 pounds soaking wet.

And her hair is like down to her butt, like just strawberry blonde red hair.

And she's just a firecracker.

And so her energy.

We had this old, this trail running group called the SoCal Trailheads.

And she, you know, was like started coming to our, she told me about the running group.

And so then she started coming to our running group.

And we had a bunch of us that just ran together and trained together.

And yeah, she was a huge mentor and person that really got me into sport.

187 results on ultra sign up.

And 90% percent rank.

I mean, so she was, she was doing a lot of races and she was winning them.

And she's still around because it doesn't look like she's running anymore.

She is.

So she lives in Laguna, Nagel, so not far from me.

And definitely I still am friends with her keeping contact with her.

She is a really like hardcore mountain bike.

She does like, I believe she does like gravel bike races.

And she goes to Canada a lot.

She has like some really close friends in Canada.

And I think she does a lot of like 100 mile gravel bike races.

I know she's very into the mountain biking.

But she still runs.

I don't think she doesn't do any races.

I don't think.

No.

Yeah, I remember I first got into running.

That's funny.

Yeah.

So cool.

Yeah.

Now I was looking at the Ray Miller, the finishing.

And I finished with.

It was me.

Jay.

Jay Eddie.

Okay.

And then John Vanderpot.

Vanderpot.

You know, he's still around a little bit.

I haven't seen Vanderpot probably in the last year.

But Vanderpot.

I love that guy.

He always comes and he'll stay.

He'll camp the night before in his truck.

And then help us with parking in the morning and then run the race.

Usually Sean O'Brien or Ray Miller.

But I haven't seen him.

I know he bought property up in Oregon or something.

Because he retired.

He was a professor.

Right.

And he retired.

Finally.

But he's such a rad guy.

Yeah.

I asked him to interview once.

And I found myself he wanted to play like chess.

Through correspondence where like you you mail each other like what's your next move?

Is there something?

And he's he's a really interesting guy.

And some day I'll get Luis Escobar interviewed him.

And I was bitch and I said you sniped him from me.

Like I really wanted to because he's one of those people.

I love interviewing people where you're like.

Who is that person?

Like my wife would say to about Vanderpot.

Who is that guy?

Is he in the race?

Because he's wearing like cargo shorts.

He's got like a messenger bag.

He looks like he's kind of like maybe hiking on the trail.

I don't know.

Like those kind of people that you always see.

And you don't know what their story is.

Those are fun for me.

Yeah.

There's so many people like that in the sport.

And since I've been doing this so long.

I mean, I've just met some of the greatest people.

I can't believe some of the amazing people that I've met and have touched my heart and my life.

It's incredible.

It's so great.

I mean, I would, I literally met my husband, the love of my life through this sport.

I was volunteering at the finish line of Bulldog race in August of 2010.

And he was doing the 25K.

He didn't even run Ultras.

And I put a medal around his neck.

And I said to the race director because I could tell she knew him.

I was like, who is that?

And I mean, I was smitten on him from the first time I saw him.

And we started dating and I was like, so here's the deal.

If this is going to work out, you have to run Ultras.

And he settled up and then, of course, you know, he became a rock star.

But yeah, this, I mean, there's, it's just crazy to me.

The sport.

Yeah.

So when you were coming up in the sport and you were starting to do these Ultras, Michelle Barton.

Was there like a trail running community at that fleet feet where there are other people that did Ultras that you were learning from?

Yeah.

They're totally was we, we ended up, I mean, we had a huge running group.

So interestingly enough, there's a gal named Jessica DeLine.

And she created the Harding Hustle race.

And she used the two moon races.

She just sold them to Aribypa.

And they're here in our local mountains.

But back in 2007, when she put on the first Harding Hustle, she used to be called Twin Peaks.

So she had a 50K and 50 mile.

And we, that was my first 50 mile in 2007.

And we, we helped her with that.

But we had a huge community.

Yeah.

And it was, it really became like my second family.

Yeah.

It was so awesome.

And did you learn from like Paising and crewing?

Were you like helping Michelle run races and stuff like that?

Yes.

And Michelle had such a network.

Like she pulled me into crewing Dean Carnazies at Badwater with her.

And yeah.

So we had just so many mentors, so many people.

And then I threw, run, threw all to running like meeting, you know, Scott Mills, a racetracked

or San Diego 100.

And that whole group of people down in San Diego.

I had so many incredible mentors in those early years.

Yeah.

And you know, the one thing they always told me, I heard time and time again, was stop running like 120 miles a week.

Stop running so much.

And it's crazy now, because I'm telling young people that like, you don't need to train

and run 100 miles a week.

Like, but you never listen.

Well, and you went pretty quick.

It looks like, because you go from 2006, you're running your first ultra.

And then you're on your first 100, 2007 boom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

October of two.

Yeah.

Gosh.

Oh, I guess you're looking at it.

I can't really remember.

But yeah.

October 2000.

It was San Diego 100.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You went real fast.

And then you did the Waldo 100 K then San Diego 100 mile.

Yeah.

Along that process, was it, this is now I want to do 100 miles.

Was it, you know, like, you liked everything?

What was the, what was the juice?

Like, what was it that kept you coming back?

My juice was the same juice that you have.

When you got in the car after Ray Miller, I felt exactly the way you did.

Like, just that feel like I wanted more.

And I, I loved it.

And I knew right away, I wanted to do 100 miles.

Like, that was, I, I just wanted to push myself.

I loved going through that process of suffering and getting to the other side of it.

And it's interesting because now I still, you know, love to run 50, 60 miles a week.

Go to the gym.

But I don't necessarily know if I want to suffer that much anymore.

And I look at my husband.

He's gotten into the 200s.

And are you allowed to cut on this?

Yes, first of all, first of all.

Okay.

I call it the fuckery.

Like, it's just a level of fuckery that I don't get anymore.

And I love going out for like a 20, you know, I did 20 miles on Sunday.

And I'm like, I'm good.

So, but I was addicted to that though.

But do you think, yeah, well, but also you seem, you seem like a person that has put it together.

You know, like you have, you have, you have, you got your life.

You know, you seem very content and very happy.

Very confident.

Like, you don't seem like you have anything to prove.

Well, you never struck me as someone like that.

I never saw you as like someone on Facebook.

Look at me.

Look at what I'm doing.

You know, like, you seem like you, you have some serenity in your life.

And do you think that that is a reason why maybe you don't need to suffer or don't want to suffer anymore?

You don't have the need to go to the dark place because you like where you are?

I mean, I don't know.

That's a good question.

I was never like super elite.

And so it's important for me to say that.

I definitely won some races and, you know, I trained really hard.

But where I was at, like, I would have never gone to Western states and probably nabbed like a top 10.

Even back in the day, that just wasn't where I was at.

Like, I love the hard mountain stuff.

And I, like I said, I had a few good races and, but I really, really loved it for what it was.

So it was exactly what you said.

And it wasn't like because I was trying to be a champion or a lead or if there wasn't ego.

I just love to be outside for hours every day.

And I still do.

And it was a genuine love.

And so I guess maybe that's like where it comes from is just, yeah, it was the chase for me was never.

I just love being out there suffering and running for hours and being outside.

And maybe that contentment because I was never chasing like the champion kind of situation.

It was just for the love and, and now I've found love and okay, I'm good if I go out for like four hours.

I don't need to go out for 10 hours.

Yeah, I'm really content with that.

So it's very, but I'm also a big believer, like I live every minute of my life, you know,

what you speak about, what you think about, what you focus on when you talk about it really becomes your life.

And there is never, ever, ever not a moment that there is something to be grateful for and gratitude.

And that's not like a facade or a fake, you know, I'm not one to, I mean, it's very genuine.

It comes from my heart.

I'm so, so thankful every day to be here, to be alive, to be living.

I don't watch the news.

I don't really care what other people are doing.

I'm just happy being alive and being in love with my husband.

I love to cook.

I have a beautiful son who's successful.

There's people, I have friends, four different friends in the last two months that have lost children.

And it's like, man, how blessed I am that I'm not going through that.

And every day and every way you can always find something to be grateful for.

Period.

And if you think you can't just sit down and start a gratitude journal and find ten things you're grateful for that day,

that you can hear, that you can see, that you have somebody that loves you, whatever it may be,

that you made it through that day, that you stayed sober, that's something to be thankful for.

And so if we focus on those things and you focus your whole life around that,

it's incredible how the energy will give back.

And then all you'll see is things you're grateful for.

And it doesn't mean there's not tough times or bad days.

Of course there are.

But I don't even look at it like there's a bad day.

It's just like, there's just things.

And it's all right.

Like you're going to get through it.

Do we care about what happened six months ago, not really,

but it might have been the worst day ever.

And so it's like everything's always going to be okay and work out.

And I kind of live my whole life like that.

I already make an effort too.

It irritates my wife.

I mean like she's like, you could find a way to be happy no matter what.

Like you're always like the guy that looks on the bright side.

And when you talk about gratitude, 100% agree.

We have a saying in AA, it's like you always have to remember to be grateful

because I've never seen a grateful alcoholic drunk.

You know, like you can't be in gratitude and resentful at the same time.

Those two things just don't, they don't mix, you know.

And yeah, no, it's, it's, it's very interesting.

But I guess I want to go back and I want to just a little bit on this.

Was the, was this, was the person you were, let's say back in 2010.

Okay.

Angeles Crest 100.

You won the Angeles Crest 100.

Okay.

Were you the same person then?

Did you have this same gratitude, happiness, fulfilled fullness?

Or were you different then?

I definitely did not.

So I don't, I don't know if I was different then.

I just think I had not grown into who I was meant to be.

I was just a baby.

I was always really aware of and very much loved being a mama.

And I love to run.

I definitely love to perform well.

I don't want to ever take away from that or be dishonest about that.

So I loved that.

But I think I was just, you know, young.

I was not quite aware that we manifest and create our surroundings, our reality.

I'm, I'm, so I'm a very different person than who I am today.

Yeah.

Just, just more grown up.

Was there an event or anything or a, do you recall when you made the shift

into this kind of fully realized and kind of content person?

Or is this just a gradual process that's happened over the years?

I think it was a gradual process that's happened over the years.

I think that Jesse, my husband very much lives his whole life like that.

And his, he was raised like that.

He has a really amazing family.

And so he definitely influenced me.

But there was, you know, this is so silly and random.

But there was a book that I read in 2018 called The Secret.

And I remember I read it and it just resonated with me.

And it might have been like the end of 2017.

And then I remember like a couple months later, somehow I found it again.

I'm like, and I read it again.

And at the time, you know, audiobooks wasn't the, wasn't quite where, you know, now I just listen to every book, you know, on audio.

But, but I actually sat down and physically re-read it again.

And that was life changing for me.

And that was, that was it.

I just dove into adopting that mindset.

And, you know, yeah, so it was from that.

So that was sort of the turning point for me.

Yeah.

When, uh, so you, you get an opportunity to take overly on the divide and remind me what year was that?

That was 2010 is when I took it over all by myself.

So 2009, I was like her side, you know, person and volunteer coordinator.

But yeah.

And, and then you started, you said you started, uh, Ray Miller, maybe the next year, two years later, right around there.

Yeah, the next year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why did you decide you wanted to get into this race directing?

Oh, that's a good question.

Um, so I very much started this profession because I was frustrated at the sport.

Um, so at the time, you'd go to a race and I most certainly don't want to in any way, you know, bad mouth or old timers or anything.

But they weren't doing it to, as a business, they weren't doing it as a profession.

It was always like, you know, so I do wanted credit where credit is due.

But most of the races weren't just grand terribly.

And you were lucky if you didn't get lost and you were lucky if you got a Oreo cookie at the aid station.

And I just didn't understand because I do these long training runs and set up my parade station 10 times better than a aid station at a race that I was coming into, you know, for a race I paid for.

And at the end of the day, you were still paying an entry fee.

And I just was so blown away that they were kind of all just crappy.

And I remember I used to say all the time, like running on the trails, like 2006, seven, eight, when I'd be running with friends, like, why aren't they're like really?

You know, people that, you know, like an Iron Man or something like that or triathlon, like they're so well done.

How come are or a marathon? Like, why can't we do ultra marathons that are that organized?

And that was really what started it all for me is I wanted to put on super well organized talk not traces and gave people what they paid for.

And I remember I spoke that out loud and Scott Mills said to me, this was such a long time ago, he said, so you want to do it like a business.

And I said, yeah, I said, because if people are paying more money, they're going to expect more.

And if people expect more than I'm going to level up and step up and do a good job.

And that's literally what it turned into. It was just that.

And that was my path. That was my desire.

What were you going to be before that? Like, what was your, you know, I can't a garden teacher.

It's what I, what I wanted to be. I just, I love children.

And that was sort of something I always wanted to do. Yeah, but sometimes being a race director isn't that different from being a kindergarten teacher.

You know, now you say that. I ended up in the same line of work in a different way. Yeah.

I called there. I, Scott, I stand at the start lane now and I'll say that I'm going to come closer.

You guys are like my little children. Come on. And I'm looking now especially because they're also young. I'm 49.

And not all of them, but you know, most of them are looking at me and they're in their 20s.

And they're just so cute to me, but they are like my little children.

Yeah.

So, but now I put on, I mean, for profit races, obviously, I have a law firm. So I mean, this isn't how I make my money.

But I, but I always aspire to put on the kind of races that I would want to run.

And I have them. I always give kind of the disclaimer.

I don't have to make the mortgage from race directing. If I break even my wife's not going to be mad, you know.

So I can afford to spend more money on the races, but that being said, you know, like to your point,

there are a lot of people that are, you know, like you can tell you go to a race and sometimes they have those like safety pins that kind of fold in half

because they're kind of like the cheapest safety pin available or like the water cup that kind of crushes because it won't hold.

Like, why are you saving money on this? You know, like if there's a place you could just just get a real goddamn safety pin.

You know, I don't want to feel like I'm nickeled and dined.

And, but when you started race directing, there wasn't a lot of that.

I mean, maybe Joe presides us. And I don't know.

Yeah. That's a good one. Joe was. Yeah.

And he's my mentor. He's one of my, he's one of my favorite people in the world. He, he did my first year of the race.

So he can tell me what I was right wrong about and stuff. And he comes every year and, and helps me. But, uh, but other than him,

I can't think of anybody that had that idea of this is going to be a business.

Not necessarily, I'm going to get rich off of it, but this is, I'm going to treat it like a business, you know?

No, no, no, I would say Jamil Corey and I've known Jamil for so many years.

Um, so Jamil, but that's so funny. You brought up Joe because, um, in 2011,

I went to Bandera and I was just blown away by the, by the whole presentation of the event.

And it's literally, that was my desire. I was like, I want to put on events like this.

And, you know, at the end of the day, if anybody's going to become a race director thinking they're going to make a lot of money,

um, I, I want to give them a hug and sit them down and help them understand, you know, people don't quite know what goes into putting on events.

And especially in California, our permits and, you know, the amount of medics we have to have and you name it, you know,

but I will say that I genuinely deeply care like every race, every runner, because it's my business.

I have a staff, I have an entire staff and it's so important to me and, you know, yeah.

And, and really just putting on, and each race, I mean, I, I don't get burnt out on it.

I just have a level of perfection and I just want them all to have such a good experience.

And again, there are customers to get what they pay for.

They deserve to have a beautiful medal with a date on it, a shirt that has a date on it.

So when we do this thing, I love doing every race every year, I do different artwork for, I don't have, I don't put a logo on the same shirt every, I do my, I have an artwork gal.

And every race is always different and I just love that I like uniqueness.

I want people to wear that shirt, you know, and they're the tri blend, they're soft, you can wear it besides just running and like all those little things.

I love doing all that because I want people to love the race and love the day.

You know, I remember where's Waldo was a really, really amazing experience.

And Craig Thornley was a race director when I did it in August of, I don't remember whenever that was long time ago, I did it twice.

And that was, I thought I was really impressed by the race organization there.

I will be incredible, not making money, though, not in for the money.

That was a totally, yeah, just a, like, I mean, did you get pushed back?

Because like, I get pushed back still, like, I mean, people had to have been like, you know, what is this race benefiting?

And what, you know, where does the money go? And, you know, like, what do you mean, you're just making money off it?

And you were one of the early people to that, like, what, what was that like?

Yeah, um, you know, I mean, those that mind don't, like, I always, this is sort of what I say.

Those, those that like matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter.

And I really believe that, like, if somebody has a, and I've been confronted about it a lot, and I just look at them and I'm like, so you work for free?

I got, I don't get, people can't even imagine the amount of hours I put in.

I mean, I could easily have a 70 hour week.

And, you know, it's a full time job.

And that goes along with my sister, Amanda, she's full time.

And it's like, what, you know, I, for me, what?

Whatever somebody else thinks or believes or, you know, whether they don't have to do my race, that's okay.

I'm okay with that.

I get it, but we're definitely, you know, we work our tails off and nobody works for free.

And that's, I'm not one of those people.

And that's what I mean, I'm an awe that you put on the races and then have, for, for me, at least for as many races as I have, I can't believe that you are also a lawyer and have a, like, that's my heart and hat goes off to you.

And podcast or some very, what?

And a podcaster.

Have I been doing this for a lot of years?

Yeah.

God, you're amazing.

Yeah, I can't wrap my head around that.

That's it.

And Jesse helps me, but he's like a superintendent for big construction company.

Like, he's so busy.

And it's like, I can't even imagine.

You haven't met my wife though.

Because it's a full time job.

Yeah, if you came and you met my wife, you'd say, now it makes sense.

Now I understand.

Because she's like the massive bumblebee.

I always say, I just got done talking to quit thorny about this.

I'm like, she's African American female, 100 mile race director.

I've never written an article about her.

Like, she has an interesting story.

But she's so cool.

Yeah.

But she is the, she is the boss.

She knows how to, like, race day, I am PR and hugs.

And she is operations.

And she runs it like a, like a German gas station.

It's just like everything is fun.

Like, we do it.

So like the Badger 100.

There's like maybe, you know, five to 600 participants.

It's everything from 100 to half marathon.

And we are, our cutoff is 6 p.m.

And 8 30 p.m.

We are in a restaurant eating.

And everything is put away where it needs to be.

Don't have to go back to the shed.

You would go to the start finish and you would not even believe

that the race has even happened.

And that's my wife.

She just has that mind, the systems, you know, to get everything rolled up.

Yeah.

Same thing.

Yeah.

And Jesse is definitely like kissing babies.

And the, you know, the social, he's everybody loves Jesse.

I'm just all business.

So, but yeah, I mean, I guess that's been my answer to most people.

Like, I get it.

I understand it.

I'll give them a hug and say, Hey, you don't have to run the race.

It's okay.

Like, you don't have to agree with me.

Just because you're offended.

Doesn't mean you're right.

Whatever.

Like, but nobody works for free.

And I'll die on that hill.

And I work really, really hard.

And, you know, it's okay that not everybody agrees with that.

So, but it, but it also, you better believe I'll work my ass off

to put on a good event because people pay for it.

And I've mentioned, I was mentioned you as one of the people that has the best events

that I was blown away by those events by the professionalism that you're someone.

Like, if someone asks me about one of your races, like, she knows what she's doing.

You know, like, like, it's not, you know, there's no, there's nothing left to chance.

It's a, it's a professional buttoned up.

Well, oiled machine.

Not, not quite paddy, curry level, because I don't know if you've ever volunteered with her.

She has like fucking laminated things for how to make a pizza.

Oh, yeah.

I went to the jackpot.

She's yelling at me about making the turkey roll up.

And Jamil runs with me.

He's just like, you know, like, she's just like, you know, what's going on here?

You know, but, um, so great.

I love that.

But you're, I mean, do you have a, do you have an off season?

Do you have any period where you're just like, what, what's that?

Oh, yeah, on purpose.

So, June, the first Saturday in June is our Malibu Canyon's race.

And that is our last event till the end of October.

So, from pretty much beginning in June till the end of October is, you know,

is my total off time.

And you know, something else, Scott, that I think that I've done, I just want to add,

like, you know, in the midst of everything we were talking about,

I think I've always been very, very careful and very aware to not be greedy.

And for us, like, if you come and volunteer, even for parking, you get a free race entry.

You don't have to earn points.

You don't have to do, like, that's it.

If you come and you're with us for the day, you know, even or a couple hours,

whatever it may be, you can get trade that in for a free race entry for any of our races.

And I think that that's been, you know, and I've had, you know, even my CPA, like,

man, you know, you're giving out 40 free race entries per race.

And I said, yeah, I know.

And that's okay.

I love this community.

They're my family.

And they're coming to help.

And a lot of people are on type budgets.

And we do what we do.

So, that's been really cool too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We actually, we've gotten to the point where we do a swag bag, like for the runners, we do the same thing for the race for the volunteers too.

So there's just everybody just gets.

And we give us shit on a swag because that's like, I have no one for.

Yeah.

You guys are off the hook.

Yes.

But we do that.

And then we give some, some free entry.

And then I also always say, like, anybody that's poor, like if you, if you send me an email and you say, I can't afford it.

I'll get you in the race.

Yeah.

You know, I'll find a way.

But, you know, again, but I'm in a different place because it's not taking away money from my mortgage payment.

You know, like, there's, and I don't, I don't want anyone to think that I'm saying that the race structures that, that, that are making a living that there's anything wrong with that.

Either, you know, I'm not, I'm not.

That's why I always, like, people leave my race and they're just like, well, how come every race isn't like this?

Or they go to another race and they're like, well, they didn't give me this.

And I'm just like, listen, you can't compare it.

You know, it's not, they're not all created equally.

And you can't compare like dollars per mile.

You have per, like my whole permit is like $150, you know, for my whole race.

You have California to deal with.

You have a whole headache, you know, so they're all different.

But when you say you're off from June to October, what period do you say I'm not going to think about this?

Like, you give yourself a month or two or?

I love that question.

I would say usually, so it takes me about two weeks after Malibu Canyon's that last race in June.

And I spent about two weeks really cleaning everything, cleaning out the tubs, you know, kind of just really wrapping it all up.

And I would say about mid June.

And my sister Amanda really is good about emails.

So I can really turn it off.

We're really good.

Like, if you email us right now, we're back to, we get back to you that day.

And that's myself included.

I'm very much still invested and connected in my events.

But I would say probably about the second week in June, tell about the end of August.

I'm pretty MIA.

Yeah, I'm pretty checked out.

And Jesse does a lot of racing in the summer.

And I'm his crew chief.

And it's our biggest passion.

You know, we have so much fun.

And our best friend Jim Laurent comes.

He's like Jesse's crew captain.

And so we spend the summer, you know, doing that.

I'm traveling a lot and doing lots of fun things.

And I'm pretty checked out.

So yeah, to answer your question, I would say June till about maybe like early September.

And then I start, it starts, you know, creeping back up.

I'm like, okay, we got to start.

Yeah, for sure.

Now, do you have a facility up there in, in like L.A.

Somewhere where you keep all the supplies and all that kind of stuff?

Because it's far away from your house, like me.

So I have all the supplies.

We have our house, we have a three car garage.

And the third garage is separate.

And that's all my race supplies.

They were in storage.

And then two years ago, we bought this new house.

And now everything is here with me.

So which is great.

And my office is here.

So I work from home, you know, which is wonderful.

But yeah, so my supplies are here.

But I did have a storage unit.

For many, many years.

That wasn't far from here.

I don't, to answer your question also, I don't keep things up in L.A.

We do, I do all the prep and everything closest to me here,

even when I have my storage unit.

And then we take, you know, the, the work van and my Tahoe and drive it up to the race site.

So you're hauling everything like in trailers up to the,

and then do you buy like the groceries and things up there?

Or do you buy it there and then transport it?

No, so we have a really good system that's worked out really well.

So any of the fresh fruit and stuff that, you know,

can spoil my volunteers get and they bring it on race day and they're immediately reimbursed.

Everything else I actually still shop for.

So the crackers and the snacks and the peanut butter and the jelly and the organizing

all the goo gels and the electrolyte and everything, all those tubs.

That's all done by me beforehand.

And then myself and my assistant Amanda loaded up in the you all van and my Tahoe.

And her super like we do it all.

And it just goes up to the race site.

So we're very lucky to.

So like Griffith Park is an hour for my house without traffic.

You know, that's always the so cal.

It's like, well, is it though?

So without traffic, but like the Malibu sector races.

So Sean O'Brien, Ray Miller or even the owner divide week.

There's group camp site like where the race starts.

So we drive up and leave the stuff there.

And we're up there for a few days.

Because I surprisingly, I still, you know, self-marked all my own race courses too.

Amanda and I split up the miles.

But for me, I still do that too.

Yeah.

So all these races are between October and June.

You have Will Rogers, this O'Neill Park trail race.

Yeah.

10K to 50K.

Whiting Ranch.

And those two I've never heard of before.

So those must be relatively new.

Yeah, the Orange County races.

So O'Neill Park caspers, Whiting Ranch, Riley, Whiting Ranch and Riley.

I just handed off to Amanda, just gave them over to her.

And she took those over.

So I volunteer on those days for her, which is so much fun.

Yeah.

And so those are, those are newer, those, those popped up after COVID.

And then Griffith Park, which I've always wanted to do.

I'm always jealous when I see that one.

Paramount Ranch.

I went and ran there a couple times that when I was in LA and always wanted to go do that race

because that's such a cool place.

Now that they have a fire, is it, is that changed much?

They did have a fire that there was a western town there that was like where movie,

it was an old movie set that burned down.

And so they rebuilt it.

So Paramount was closed.

So we're bringing them, bringing that race back in December of this year.

And did they rebuild that little town there too?

Yep.

They rebuilt the western town.

And yeah.

So we're really excited.

And my assistant Amanda is going to take that race over in December.

I'm going to help her and be there.

But yeah.

Yeah.

Because I'd like to do a little less.

Yeah.

Well, have you ever thought about like when you're going to be done?

I have.

I have a plan.

Okay.

Can't talk about it here.

No.

You have to.

But yeah.

That's a plan.

You can't do it forever.

I mean, it's, it's hard.

It's hard.

It's physical and it's emotional and it's hard.

Yeah.

If there's anything that I leave this podcast with, I just would love for people

to have a little compassion for like, it is the most physically hard job.

The amount of tubs that weigh like 500 pounds, like hundreds that I lift and load

and the course marking and the stress of like the two weeks before.

There's a fire.

You're canceled.

Like it's never ending.

And you got to really anybody that thinks they want to get into race directing

or do this.

Like, you got to really, really, really love it because there's some harder days.

More harder days than, you know, good days.

And you just got to fight through it.

But it's a very physical job.

Yeah.

People don't realize that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My wife always yelling.

She's always yelling at the volunteers.

Get that water.

Don't let's got to get that water.

Because I have to stand at that finish line for 26 hours or something like that.

We got to save him.

He's been working all year.

But it is, it is very physical, very physical.

It is really, really physical.

And then the event happens.

And the, and just, I mean, the day of is so standing, just like you said,

standing on your feet, you know, all those hours, but leading up and everything.

And it's just really physical.

I mean, it's definitely kept me young and fit.

But man, Scott, I'm tired.

I've been.

Yeah.

You know my plan.

There isn't exit plan.

A couple more years.

But I have a plan.

And it's been talked in emotion.

So.

You know, my favorite thing is when, like, let's say you do come and you,

you run the badger next year, you do the hundred.

And you crossed that finish line.

I think I've done it.

You're talking in.

Yeah.

Let's say that you crossed the finish line with like Craig Thornley.

Okay.

Like two of you.

What I, what I love is when I'm just like,

Kira, did you know this person before the race?

You're like, no, no, no, we just met out there.

And I'm like, how many miles did you guys run together?

We ran 30 miles together.

We ran.

And then I see a picture of you guys like doing some other race or doing some,

you know, and it's interesting because like some people they,

they know 10 junk miles or like maybe the podcast is why they run.

And then when they get to that finish line, they break down and cry.

And they're just like, you're the reason why I'm a runner.

And you know, it's, it's this is a whole.

And then some people, you know, who the fuck I am.

They're just like, why are you trying to hug me?

What is going on here?

It's like weird, you know, it's, it's really fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, oh, I love everything that you say.

You just summed it like up exactly.

That's so true.

And especially now I have so many people that will, you know, come up to me

and they're like talking to me and they're not even realizing that I'm Kira, you know.

And they're just, you know, can you, can you take a picture?

I'm like, yeah, sure.

You know, I'm at the, so it's great though.

I love it.

But yeah, it's, it's wild.

Well, like sometimes people say, can we get a picture?

And then Joe, because he take Joe,

besides this will be the camera guy sometimes.

He'll like act like they're going to take a picture with me.

And, and then they're like, no, no, no, just, just the two of us just over here.

Like they don't want a picture with me, you know, like he just assumes.

It's very, very fun.

Yes, yes.

I know.

It's okay though.

What about your running?

Like one thing I'll say, and this must be the curse of the race director,

you have as many DNSs as I do.

And not a lot of people can say that.

Is that because you're such a busy person and a race director and you, you aspire

and then you can't make, that happens to me all the time.

All the time.

And like the thing is too, you know, this is such a blessing in a curse.

You know, another race director isn't going to, hopefully I don't get shafted for saying this.

We don't charge each other for a race entry.

Like, you know, we love each other.

And so, you know, I can always get a free race entry.

And it's such a beautiful, wonderful thing.

We're a pretty close tight knit community.

But like then it's like, I just get so busy.

Or honestly, I'm so physically tired from like putting on a few events.

And it's just like, there's no way I want to travel anywhere.

But I did get into Leadville in August.

And I kind of, I know.

And I thought, oh, I'm never going to do another hundred.

But it was always, I have to tell you Scott, it was always on my bucket list.

And because I'm not getting any younger, I'll be 52 days after the race.

I just thought, what am I waiting for?

I don't want this opportunity.

You know, I'm still blessed with the youth.

I really want to try to do it.

So I did get into it.

And sure enough, I put in the lottery and the race I got in.

And so I'm like, oh, man.

Now I know I have to do it, Scott.

You probably could have gotten anyway, right?

I just, I don't know.

Racers tend to get picked in every lottery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's exciting.

No, and you've never done it.

It's really exciting.

Have you paced there?

Have you been a part of it?

Is Jessie done it?

No, that's so with the craziest thing.

And it's always been on my list like from way back in the day.

So I'm really excited.

And I know that it's way high altitude.

But I love that it's, you know, doesn't have like 30,000 feet of climbing.

Like I can't do hard rock.

There's no way.

I feel like I can make it to the finish line.

That's my goal.

Are you good with altitude?

Yeah.

We don't live.

I can train at altitude a few days a week.

And so I can get up to Mount Baldi, which goes up to 10,000 feet.

So I have that, you know, I'm very lucky that I can get to altitude.

So I'll train for that.

Yeah.

I'm excited.

It's exciting.

I mean, it doesn't look like you've done 100 in a while, you know?

It's been a long time.

2019.

I did Rio de Lago.

That was the last one.

And that's, you know, I love that race.

But that's not very hard.

The first 18 miles is on that flat bike path.

So are you like nervous, excited, a little bit of both, you know?

Yeah.

I'm super excited.

I'm super scared.

I just want to make the cutoffs, you know?

And so I'm like, oh, man, that'd be such a bummer.

I hope I can make the cutoffs.

They look a little, you know, because it'll be I do not live at altitude.

So it's definitely going to be very hard.

So be a lot of hiking.

So, but I'm a pretty fast hiker.

So that's, I feel like I can make it.

Do you coach, though?

I do not coach anymore.

I felt like for me, I have my trail running team.

And that is a, you know, it runs twice a year for six months.

And we run together on the weekends.

And it's there.

It's not like one-on-one coaching.

But the one-on-one coaching, I feel like there are so many things

I feel like there are so many phenomenal coaches in this sport

that are so much more still in the sport, still racing still.

There's, I feel like there's better choices for them.

And for me, I'm too busy with the race directing.

And I just felt like because I wasn't in it been a few years.

I wasn't racing anymore.

I was like, you know, there's enough great coaches in this sport that are still racing.

And so if anybody asked me, I'm like, well, you know, you should ask Jeff Browning to coach you.

He's a really good coach.

Like, there's better options than me.

I don't have a coach.

I don't have a coach.

Are you going to get one for Leadville?

No, I put together my own training plan and worked it all out.

I have it all dialed.

So I know what to do.

So my coach has been tired for the last like five years.

So she knows everything about Leadville.

Yeah, she's like the Leadville master.

She's the Leadville master.

Yeah, well, we do stuff with her.

Have you ever been involved with her at the band of runners?

No.

So they have this organization called band of runners.

And what they do is they send cold star families and veterans to trail camp to learn skills about trail running.

And then also to find a community.

Yeah.

So we raise money for them all year long and all of our events too.

And she does one of our aid stations at our race.

And you know, it's one of the charities that I like to raise a lot of money for.

So it's a really good thing.

We meet those people and they're like, this organization changed my life.

I got out of the military and I found my tribe, you know, and it's, you know,

you saw the therapeutic value of running.

I mean, there's another group that could use it, you know, is the veteran.

So that's something.

I love that.

That's of me.

What about the nutrition?

Are you doing that?

Are you?

Not anymore.

That was a huge passion, a mind, a huge passion.

And that was what I did for such a long time, a nutritionist.

And, but now I just, I'm so busy with the race directing and, you know,

any other downtime I have, I think that I'm pretty, I've become pretty self focused.

I do go outside.

If I don't run for a few hours, I go for a long hike.

I go to the gym for a couple hours.

I'm very involved in my fitness.

And then my husband works a lot.

I love being his wife.

I love to cook.

And my son and daughter in law just spot their first house and they're like four miles from us.

So they're over a lot.

So I kind of just live in a really simple, easy life.

And I'm really like living my best life.

Is there any other race other than Leadville that's on your, I really want to kind of sneak that in before I.

Okay.

Bad water was.

But I, I'm in a, you know, this is, this can be a little controversial.

But man, I love me some bad water.

And I love that race director.

He's like just, you know, can I tell you something?

I have, I've always liked Cosmon.

I mean, he, he, you, I love Christmas.

I just left him out when we were talking about race structures that have it buttoned up.

Like that guy knows what he's doing, you know?

Oh, yeah.

And I've done Salt and Sea a couple of times, crewed a couple of times.

I did the Cape Fear last year was the very first time I went to bad water.

Somebody asked me to be on their crew.

And I was like, fuck this.

This looks terrifying.

This can't be fun.

And then the whole way home I thought,

damn, I wish I would have did that before I, because I can't run right now.

I have an issue, but I wish I would have did that back when that place is mind blowing.

I would, like if you told me I could fix myself and do one more race before I die,

that would be the one I would pick.

It was just, I was so taken by that race.

Everything about it.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I used to feel that way.

I crew chief Jimi Dean Freeman at Bad Water in 2010.

Like, I definitely used to feel that way.

But I think that I have to be very honest and say Scott.

I think after like maybe 75 miles in, I would just be over that payment.

It, that would be hard.

That's my only thing, but that it's still deep in the heart.

And, and I have so much love for Crossman.

So I don't know.

But I was not really.

Leadville.

What?

Leadville bad water.

Anything else?

Nope.

Never had a desire to do states.

Sorry, Dornley.

And it's Jesse.

He's had four top 10 finishes there.

Like, been part of the whole deal.

For me, I just kind of was never.

I was like, it's great.

But no, just leadville really was it.

And then bad water.

Yeah.

Let me ask that question a different way.

And I've never had to ask it this way before.

Is there a bucket list race that you wish Jesse would do?

So that you could go and crew and pace them there.

Bad water.

Bad water.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You think you would do that?

Um, I, I could probably wrangle them into it.

Yeah.

Jesse is the guy that you can talk into anything.

Like, he's just, he, he, that guy lives life to the fullest.

Yeah.

Do you regret that you never got to get into those 200 miles?

Is there anything about that that attracts you?

No, that's fuckery.

Nope.

Okay.

No, no.

What about last person standing?

Those are pretty cool.

Yeah.

I've definitely.

I mean, that's amazing.

Yeah.

Very.

Those are wild.

Do you think you've got the skill for that?

I mean, in terms of like running, stopping, waiting, running, stopping, waiting.

Do you think that you would be good at that?

It's so hard.

I can't even run my head around how hard that would be.

Like, that's so hard to stop.

And, and I'm so slow nowadays.

Like, but this stopped me.

That would be really hard.

Yeah.

I'm really giving it much.

The one we do.

It's called the last outstanding.

I'm doing like a pot of money.

Like every time someone signs up that puts money in the pot and the pot grows.

This year, they were, they were 260.

Wow.

They went an extra day.

It was just two dudes for 24 hours.

That was all I was left.

That is just, oh, they are so incredible.

I can't run my head around it.

Yeah.

It looks fun.

But, you know, I just always ask women because I would like to see a woman win.

We've never had a woman win that race.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many young, well, I don't even want to say young, but so many talented

about us women right now in this sport.

I think that we, you and I can put our heads together and get some about us women

there.

That's like, yeah.

That'd be cool.

Have you had to do anything different in terms of the, like with the gender issue, with the

non-binary and the women?

How has that impacted your race series and what you do?

It hasn't really impacted it.

You know, ultra sign up has something cool where they, you know, can add the option.

They can register as non-binary.

So that's great because for us, so all of my events are on ultra sign up.

And we also use the timing app.

Now, we're not using the ultra sign up timing app for the 24 hour.

We're doing that chip time.

But so for us, it really, we were just waiting for ultra sign up to make that adjustment

because that's out of my hands.

I don't even, you know, barely know, like, I'm the most non-tech person.

I'm like, trust me, you don't want me to even try to, you know, miss with anything with computers.

So once they did that, it was great because now, you know, they can have that option to register

where they, you know, in their heart feel they belong.

So that, that's great.

Yeah.

Otherwise, no, I mean, like I said, I, I, a trail running to me is the last place in the world

that there's anything that's, it's just acceptance.

Like nobody, the parking guys, the check in people, myself, I'm going to put the metal around your neck,

just the same, the love you just the same, the volunteers.

It's the most non-judgmental, most accepting place ever.

And I feel like if anybody wants to change that, like, saying it's not, they lost their mind.

Like, we're the most loving, accepting community ever.

And when you go to a trail race, it really is how it is.

Everybody just, it, are such good people.

So, um, and that's all I ever see.

And so that's all we've ever been.

And I'll die on that hill.

Um, so we, for us, we're like, yeah, this is whatever, we will love you the same.

Yeah.

You're excited.

And we love you.

And we were always doing that.

So welcome to our world.

That's our, that's our fun part.

We love everyone.

And our finish line, we get, I get kegs of, of nuclear spirit, which is like a Wisconsin thing

that only Wisconsin people can get.

They don't sell it anywhere else.

And, uh, we just have unmonitored kegs.

We don't, we don't give out like coupons or anything.

We're just like, townspeople, your family.

I don't care.

Everybody can just drink as much as they want.

And it just turns into a party.

It's like a long party at the finish line.

So we have a, we have a very, a very fun time there.

Um, I love it.

I love it.

Two more questions that I'll let you know.

Yes.

Uh, spread the longest interview you've ever had to do.

Uh, two more questions that I'll let you go.

I promise.

Okay.

Number one.

Uh, if I were to strand you on a desert island for the rest of your life.

Okay.

One movie, one book, one album.

What would they be?

Oh, one book would be the secret by Ronda Brian.

Uh, one movie.

Oh, um, sweet home Alabama.

Love that movie.

Um, and one album.

Oh, man.

Are you serious right now, Scott?

I like.

So a lot of people would be surprised.

I love like old country music.

So I was raised in honky-tonk bars.

I stepped out on honky-tonk bars.

And so it's been most of my,

so I let probably any George St.

album.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's the first person that I've interviewed that is,

that has gone honky-tonk on me.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Or a clean black album.

Well, I guess I have to pick one.

No, sorry.

I can't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Someone that should do one of these long interviews with me.

That people don't know about.

That would be,

this would be good for that to exist.

Like for them to be out in the world.

And people didn't know about.

Oh.

Um.

Do you.

Do they have to be in a,

in the sport, right?

Yeah.

In the sport.

Yeah.

Somehow in the sport.

Yeah.

Somehow in the sport.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's like the most incredible human being ever.

But it would be Sally McRae.

I've done her.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Okay.

That's what I couldn't remember.

Okay.

Um.

So I have to think of someone else.

Um.

Okay.

My husband, I guess.

I think he's fascinating.

The pride of Phillips.

I would, I would love to interview him.

Yeah.

Do you think you do it?

Yeah.

He would totally do it.

He loves to be,

he's,

he loves attention.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, if you can,

if you can lay the foundation for me on that,

I would definitely do that.

I would love to.

I mean, he's,

he's probably the most famous runner

that ever came from Phillips, Wisconsin.

I would think he is.

Yeah.

Well,

and that would definitely solidify my chances

of getting you to come and do one of my races too.

So.

Yeah.

I definitely want to do one of your races.

I mean, they just,

you're just such an amazing human being.

And they look amazing.

I mean, I don't do the 100 miles of the,

the one you keep the badger.

Like that one looks so,

that's what I want to do.

It's, it's fun.

People enjoy it.

I mean, there's really good eight stations that,

you know what I do is,

and I don't know if you do this,

but I get all other race directors to my aid stations.

And then I,

all of them,

an aid stations,

then I go do one for them.

Yes.

But they make really good aid station people.

So.

Of course.

That's the way to do it.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, hopefully we'll get you to come out

and don't forget,

I owe you one.

Because we have,

we don't know about that.

But we, I just give anybody credit forever.

And you can just,

we do too.

Yeah.

So you can totally defer,

even like a couple days before,

we don't care.

You know, you didn't,

you didn't defer.

So you just,

you didn't,

but it's okay.

It's okay.

No.

No, so just let me know.

And I'll give you your deferral.

But you can come to the badger 100.

You'll be too tired after a ledville though,

because it's only like a month later.

Yeah.

You might have to wait nothing.

Yeah.

Well, maybe,

what's your cutoff?

36 hours and it's really flat,

flat and soft.

So it's,

it's not like concrete.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm a pretty fast,

well, hiker,

maybe I could do it a month after.

Oh, no.

A 50.

A brisk walk will do at 36 hours.

I mean,

you don't need much.

You're talking me into it as we're here.

One of our aid stations

is an actual bar on the trail.

You have to go get a coaster

from the bartender.

Okay.

I love that.

So I don't know where else

you're going to get that.

Maybe you and Jessie

come do it together.

Have you ever done that?

Have you guys ever

wandered together?

No.

He's way too fast.

God, which is okay.

And he would make me stressed.

Like, I don't want to go fast anymore.

I just want to be out there.

Okay.

But Jessie would crush it.

We got to get him to come do it.

Yeah.

Well, I think our course records

like maybe 14 hours or something like that.

So it's a,

it's stout.

That'd be pretty fast.

But I feel like he could maybe do like 16 or 17 hours for sure.

Yeah.

Well, we would love to have him too.

The pride of Phillips.

Then we would have two people born and raised

in Phillips Wisconsin at the race, too.

Okay.

He's doing it.

We have to.

You're going to hook me up with him.

All of,

okay,

all of Cures races are on the KH races.com website, right?

Yep.

And that's our Instagram KH races.

Yep.

And I can't recommend them more.

Don't underestimate them.

They're, they're hard.

But if you want a race director that knows what the hell they're doing

and you want to run someplace.

I mean, you're right.

That's Toronto Brian.

When you see that ocean,

you're just like holy shit.

This is amazing.

Like what a place to run.

You're lucky that you get to be there.

You know,

it's Ray Miller.

You can see the ocean too, right?

You can.

You can.

And you could connect.

The courses don't at all intertwined.

But if you wanted to go for a really long run,

you could connect the courses by foot on the backbone trail.

That would be a brutal 100 mileer.

Yeah.

Well, we did that.

We put on the Samo hundred for two years.

But it was just,

it was a lot for me.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, I thank you so much for coming.

You are delight.

And you know what?

You're one of my favorite race directors.

And I'll never forget you because you handed me one of my very,

very first 50 mile medals twice.

Two times you gave me a 50 mile medal.

And I really appreciate you.

And you're one of the really,

really good people of this sport.

So keep doing what you're doing.

And thank you so much for coming up.

Oh, thank you.

I love you.

Thank you for having me.

I was honored to be here.

All right.

Talk to Jesse for me.

Yeah.

Okay.

And Philips is coming.

All right.

Have a great night.

Okay.

Thanks.

Bye.

Bye.

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Bye.

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