Learning to Lead Before You’re Ready with Michael Eck

0:00And we spent an hour just complaining and raging and throwing things and punching things and then It's sort of dawned on us. I described it as it got really quiet. It was like oh no No tape no school no from my no hope for a Notre Dame scholarship. No, no nothing What do we do? And I have this memory and again everyone takes credit for it I do not Because it wasn't me someone said well, why don't we just do it ourselves? And then sort of was like do what ourselves we talking about Well, we practice and play and so I'll short short get because I hope I've written it better than I'm telling it We spent the next six hours in the basement Dividing ways to practice and play games without coaches and it was the parts of the practice that we thought would be most useful and how we would

1:00Practice as players and people describe well. There's all kinds of player coaches. This is not player coaches This is a very different thing. This is playing and coaching at the same time No one does that and so it was like how would we actually do it? When we're practicing and need the practice and then playing and coaching at the same time So we devised this and I had reached out Yeah, I didn't volunteer for it, but I was the quarterback of the team and so I became spokesman Today's episode sponsor is Aditon creators of Aditon operations kit the military's go-to software for personnel and equipment accountability A.O.K goes where you do any network anytime any place I got to know Aditon's co-founders James and JJ several years ago They are former army and COs who have years of experience in the tech industry They understand that most military jobs are performed behind a computer desk

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3:02For a limited time listeners of the from the green notebook podcast can try out log E for free Visit at atonpbc.com 4-slash ftgn-log E to get started that's 80 Y T O N pbc.com 4-slash ftgn- L O G E How do I know what I think until I see what I say The green notebook Carried by military leaders around the world within those pages are swept Tears triumphs and the hard one lessons of life Lessons worth sharing each week the team dies into the notebooks and military leaders Business professionals Authors Athletes and coaches and entertainers to share lessons and help you lead with the best version of yourself

4:08Welcome to another episode of from the green notebook. I'm your host Joe Byerley And this week we're diving into the green notebook of Michael Eck author of strike season In the fall of 1979 Michael was a 16 year old quarterback playing high school football in western Pennsylvania His team was loaded with talent ranked number one in the area and entering a season That could determine whether many of them would have the opportunity to play college football Then their teachers went on strike And because their coaches were teachers eventually the coaches had to walk away too Suddenly a group of 16 and 17 year old kids were faced with a choice Except that their season was over or Figure out how to keep it alive themselves So that's what they did for five weeks and five games the players practice themselves Coach themselves called their own plays made their own adjustments and somehow went five and oh scoring 127 points while giving up just one touchdown But what makes strike season such a great story isn't the record

5:11It's what happened when a group of teenagers was handed responsibility They weren't supposed to have and forced to grow up faster than anyone expected In this conversation Michael and I talk about those five weeks the chaos of their first practices the fights the mistakes And the moment a few players sitting in a basement finally asked Why don't we just do it ourselves We talk about their head football coach coach Walker who chose to stand with the teacher's union while promising the players He would never abandon them and the secret notes late night meetings and examples of leadership that Michael still remembers decades later And we get into what Michael carried from that season into his career on Wall Street The importance of creating one clear mission Roll modeling the behavior you expect from others and being as he puts it ruthless and patient and equal measure when developing people What I loved about this conversation is that the need to this incredible football story is a bigger lesson about leadership Ownership and what can happen when a team decides to stop waiting for someone else to solve the problem

6:16So grab your green notebooks and please welcome to the show Michael heck fantastic being here Joe Thanks for having me we were talking right before you hit the record button That I was concerned you know we were I was working with the publicists trying to get an advanced copy of your book strike season and It finally I finally got a copy of it last week like Thursday or something and I was like there's no way I'm going to finish this before the interview next week with all the other stuff I have going on but I ended up binge watching it like a Netflix season and Are binge reading it and I kept finding myself popping up sharing stories from the book Like I was like recounting scenes for my favorite football movie like remember the titan stuff like that So uh, so I'm really I'm really looking forward to today's interview and having you share a little bit of that same story I read with uh with my listeners Fantastic I'm glad you enjoyed the book um, you know terribly unspeaked heroes the first time authors so

7:19Anything that sounds like uh people like the book is is music to my ears. Well, let's let's talk about As we get in this story I like for you to share kind of um, you know growing up Uh in this in this football culture because I think like some of the like the stories that you talk about like middle school football Would almost be like unrecognizable today like as I was reading I was taking back to Catholic middle like Catholic school basketball practice with a coach that was Showing up with alcohol on his breath and would would get mad and like Chunk a chair at everybody and then we wouldn't he would just disappear We wouldn't see him again for the rest of the season But you guys had something similar growing up playing uh football Yeah, yeah, this is uh pissburg 70s late 70s. This is you know, growing up in the 70s So I say pissburg is famous for two things uh world glass steelmaking and football

8:22Um and exporting both of those products throughout the country and other parts of the world um So yeah, it was a completely different environment and as an apparent now as we talked about earlier too uh, I Wouldn't allow it would pull my kids from the teens But it just was a different era Uh, particularly in the Catholic school era. We're reading writing arithmetic and a smack on the back of the head And we're part of the curriculum and No one complained to be fit for the people when it complained to it was just part of Um, it was just a part of part of the learning And when you had that in the schools you had it you know New power power by ten on the on the athletic fields and you've experienced yourself and Yeah, and and and again looking back I say and as I talk about it in the book I understood it. It was part of the culture if for sure make me a Better football player, but it came with a you know it came with a cost um

9:23And yeah, it there's there's a reason Some of that has been uh chased chased out of the up Up upbringing of young young student athletes Yeah, it's uh, it's funny. I remember Um, just a couple of years ago they uh, it was like school auction to raise money for something And they were auctioning off coach kelly's paddle Um, and this is like I grew up in the 90s and it was like the You know, that was like a dying thing, but like you could choose to get suspended detention or A more swift or punishment of a paddle with holes in it um to to keep keep the I guess to help with airflow And uh in the swing and I thankfully was never on the other end of it I was I always took the I always took the paddle um, and it was always two days of standing in class and everyone knew why you were standing and so Yeah, that that was uh those are the part part of the curriculum

10:25Well, you guys you guys grew up this this again the Wild West of of Catholic schools Back in the day and then you you get to high school Um, you know you guys are cruising along a new coaches come in he's turned the program around and as you're approaching Your senior year you guys are on On path to not only potentially win a state championship But um you guys had a lot of prospects on the team, right? Yeah, we had 14 15 legitimate D1 prospects going into that year And unlike today where you have tons of film and lots of people that can Watch and stream how you've played and practiced all your career It was this this it was this season we were going to get judged on Um, where we went how we went how we played so it was

11:28championship or bust and it was also Get seen or in some cases not go to college in some cases um, you know, not you know, not not not get seen not have the opportunity to play in college and You know, those of us that had aspirations for scholarships and division one and we had a couple of real legit folks players that had professional aspirations and So yeah, it was all on this season And what was it like once um you talk about in the book But like your mom comes in and you know, it tells you that hey You know the teachers union is going on strike and that includes The coach and as the as the information comes out the coaches aren't going to be allowed to coach So everything looks like it's in peril for you guys what like what what was going through your mind at that time Yes, so Separate the timing just to touch so they had never gone on strike My mother must have known something I didn't I wasn't paying attention figure even if they go on strike

12:34We were all talking about Wonderful then it'd be like the extended snow days will keep practicing will play will be professional athletes Couldn't think of anything better That's the mind of a 16 year old knucklehead and so When she came at me about you know, what if they go on strike it was like One, they won't go on strike wrong They did go on strike and two if they go on strike there's no way they're going to affect our season And so when they went on strike They continued to allow our coaches to coach us practice and games the coaches in the morning would go to pick it lines They would come to our practices And they were four practices and then we had a game with our coaches and we're just thinking this is the best Um But it turned out not to be because after that second game Um our head coach and each of the coaches individually had to make a decision and they supported the union And then I described and john you've read the book that saturday morning call from my head coach

13:36She said, you know, meet me at the Nearby Catholic school in the playground get all your teammates together and I Didn't ask any questions just said sure And we show up and they deliver the news that they're not going to coach us They're going to support the union in every way possible Um, and then he stresses that'll never abandon us um But as of right now the season's over And so that's You know from a Friday night and we were read the paper the next morning with a number one ranked team and both papers in the area and the hot bed up High school football where we went really high and then about two hours later. It was holy crap Now what we've been abandoned by our coach foods. We were mad at one of the priests at the you know We're mad at everybody and parents Get union. We were just Whoa, what do we do now? And and then You get together and I'd like for you to talk about this because I think a lot of times

14:40You know, we get bad news and we just kind of like roll over with it Or we're so angry that it didn't Pin out the way we thought it would we like push back against reality Um, but you guys accepted it And then came up with the plan to move with it and I I love for you to talk about that I think it was a Sunday morning in uh There's Saturday night Sunday morning in uh your buddy's basement Yeah, yeah, we had I like everyone has of what we refer to as the Mottley's pub which was a dump of a basement In a beautiful house that The parents allowed us to crawl in and out of and that's where we solved all the world's problems. So We went after we found out to the basement to the pub um that we referred to as a pub and it was the four captains and then a couple of other seating years And the and we didn't have a plan that you You make it sound much more we didn't have a plan. I I described it as reading react and most of it was They can't do this to us. There's no way what you know

15:44And we spent an hour just Complaining and raging and throwing things and punching things and then It's sort of dawned on I said describe it as it got really quiet. It was like oh no No tape no school no from mine no hope for a Notre Dame scholarship. No No nothing What do we do? And I have this memory and again everyone takes credit for it I do not Because it wasn't me someone said well, why don't we just do it ourselves And then it's like do what ourselves we talking about Well, we practice and play and so I'll short short net because I hope I've written it better than I'm telling it We spent the next six hours in the basement Dividing ways to practice and play games without coaches and it was the parts of the practice that we thought would be most useful and how we would

16:44Practice as players and people describe well There's all kinds of player coaches. This is not player coaches. This is a very different thing This is playing and coaching at the same time No one does that And so it was like how would we actually do it When we're practicing and need the practice and then playing and coaching at the same time So we devised this and I hadn't reached out Yeah, I didn't volunteer for it But it's out of the quarterback of the team and so I became spokesman It reached out to the chairman of the school board and asked for a meeting chairman of the school board His son was our statistician was just a great guy But obviously on the other side of the table and he said sure got the school board together And we went in front of the school board the next day I made an impassioned plea And lo and behold What was happening behind the scenes is the union thought the moment they pulled our coaches from the side line the board would pay they didn't The board said the moment they allowed us to coach ourselves with some conditions to where three administrators that had to be present at the practice

17:51They had to open they had to Be on transportation with us There were three administrators that were part of the condition. They weren't coaches in any way shape or form And the board thought when they poundered With will allow them to play practice and play games that it would basically solve the dispute in hours And lo and behold they check made it each other and we were this pond and we just Begin practicing and playing on our own Well, the team go well and I said you read it It did not go well in the beginning No, and the administrators you mentioned are not coaches these guys and these guys aren't like football Um, officianados either so with it were there a little bit of like relief When you guys show up with your own plans for how this is going to work Yeah, they were Particularly the one that was supposed to be in charge He was Excuse my line of scare of shippling and and And he had the right to be because he wanted him to expect it to last

18:55Two he knew he was just being put in this position as a marker and three, you know This is Western Pennsylvania. It's Violence it's controlled violence most of the time And he's on the field where a lot of violence is happening and so it wasn't He's not sitting in an office You know shooting out memos is this and so They were they were scared and um We had to devise ways that you know again physically to protect them Um, so they wouldn't get hurt so we made them stand on the sideline in a certain area and told everybody you You get these guys were we're done and so you can't you gotta stay away. Can't him anybody And once we you know our first practice as we read about was a disaster Our second practice was more of a You know run to your drop and then we slowly figured out ways to

19:55practice and And plan Well, it's and I think I appreciate it a lot more now my son is 16 You know, he's he's in so he's they're gearing up for the season now um and so I I just can't imagine You know him and his buddies like taking over these practices and You know like coaching and so I think what's amazing too is that You know coach walker Who was trying to do the right thing? You know for the teachers union decide with his co-workers because as you talk about in the book there was so many pay issues Um and other issues for educators in that area that that he had to but at the same time That promise of not abandoning you guys he he held true to that So I would love for you to share kind of what that first week look like With coach walker because

20:56Again as you read the book like you see I see the movie Um, I see the movie play out, you know as it goes. I was wondering if you could share that a little bit too Yeah, so We were rip-roaring mad at it coach walker and and all the coaches um But in a funny story that'll bring back You know he he didn't abandon us um I would get Secret notes put into my locker about observations about practice from the picket line And we also devised the way to sneak over to his house one night a week and so in the very first week we had our First and they had cop cars out front because the union was basically Defend this is exactly what they didn't want him to do they did not want to communicate with us in any form They couldn't find the secret notes that might that appeared in my locker um But they were trying to prevent us from going over there. So four captains and I

21:58It's not over there parked the car two streets away. It's not through backyards jumped over defensive Hope to wear at the right house. We didn't know what his house. We've never been to his house So we're approaching get from the back and so we didn't he came to the end It wasn't very helpful when you're approaching get from the back. So we weren't even sure we got to his house Um, but we did and and I described in the book that at least for the first hour it wasn't about football was about What they were experienced how To born they were and again, I didn't have an appreciation of this. I did I hours hundreds of hours of interviews I said I remembered about half of this and but half of this I was learning as I did Research for the book I didn't experience or have any appreciation for what they were going through and we snuck into this basement And I see a picture of him and his family and this is the shower as it sounds. I realized that he was a human being And I was like oh This is this is this is this is better than football. He's got four kids that are going to another high school Because they can't afford to live in our town. I said this is that's not right

23:02And I wouldn't have appreciated it without this happening, but we And so each week we would sneak over there Um, and I don't want to do any spoiler alerts. He did get and we did getting trouble a couple of times for our communication during games And so it was you know, he was born never gave up on us tried to communicate as best he can but as the season went on again. This was multiple weeks The union really restricted him from communicating with us. So as time went on We became more and more Independent but he never left us never left us in any way shape or form Other than not being on the sideline. Yeah, I'm interested you like like we talked about earlier like he came in You know, I don't think that your program was that strong before he came in Turns it around And even here recently in our our small town I had the head football coach came in just a couple years ago and the programs like night and day. What what is it about

24:09You know, whether it's at the collegiate level professional level or even the high school level A coach coming in and and turning a program around or you know strengthening a culture Like what insights did you gain from this experience on that? Yeah, so I'll make this personal because it was more he I think came on a coach at the late 60s and he had 10 years I've really helped him turn as you describe helping turn the program around But for me this experience was I saw And which which I'm gonna answer your question. I saw another part of him in a different form That was beyond football. So it was Walking and talking he kept saying I will support the union I need to support it for my family, but I'll never abandon you guys And he would say that again and again to wherever we're asked from the union the board or us

25:09And he lived by that in in face of criticism from the teachers criticism from the board criticism from parents he wasn't on our side. Let me put the coaching us in the same fashion And so he was he was torn in the way that I don't know I can't describe maybe there's been other situations like this we couldn't find them torn in a way that no other coach has been torn And he didn't he was loyal to the union and he was loyal to us as much as he could In it in his own way. So the answer your question off intensity Living it talking it role modeling it most important And gaining respect he wasn't a guy that that did smack you in the back of the head he he but he man when he talked you listened um and so I I I experienced more authenticity from this coach than

26:10And lots of different ways than any other coach that I've played for um And he he walked it talked it role modeled it it wasn't Ra Ra was real and it was real on the field And off the field and I think that's part of what the cook You know if I'm I don't want to get on that stool or anything but again on and off the field role modeling the behavior comes onto the field you breathe it you know And it has an impact and the best coaches can do that And in the fact that he said he'd never abandon you guys I would imagine too like You know That it's hardest things are for this guy like he's in your like he will be in your corner no matter what And I imagine there's uh There's some motivation and strength But behind it's in real trust Yeah, we're in his basic suit cop cars that from You know He was think he was taking a risk and the story I was going to tell you so

27:11I launched the marketing of the book as part of the NFL draft there was a Friday night lights exhibit At of in-mount leavening at the Historical Society of two Well, I don't know why I sold out booktops Coach Walker K 90 years old and the head of the union Mark McCloskey came who's another hero in this story McCloskey didn't know as I'm telling the story like I'm telling it to you That we snuck over to coach Walker's house to this daily Well, and so they were had this exchange in there was and McCloskey says why I guess statue of limitations are up with the union And he laughed and coached Walker was like well, I think my just just parametizing it didn't there were There was only one cop car and I think they were just driving by so They didn't they never had this conversation And it played out in front of everyone and it made it So authentic I didn't know McCloskey. I thought everybody knew everything and coach Walker was like

28:12Well, he's dramatizing it is right here for the book and you know something like that Yeah, so it's been crazy some of the reveal or some of the connectivity that's been the best part of this That's amazing and you guys how long did you end up coaching? Because I think everybody you know when it's strike happens everybody thinks it's going to clear up in a in a day or a week But how long were you guys on your own for Five weeks of practices and five games and what was your season? Yeah, what was your record Five and oh we scored 120 seven points and gave up one touchdown Wow, and what were some of the I guess what were some of the hard lessons That you learned during this this period of time To because like you said it wasn't perfect you guys this wasn't like Every turn of the stories of a feel good story like you guys you guys created some problems Yeah, there's a reason 1617 year old don't coach themselves is because it's dangerous. There were more fights

29:16There was less discipline We were kids enacted like kids. I started you know, I again, I described I was in a fight. I'm kicked my friend and broke this hand and as there's a reason 1617 year olds don't coach themselves Um one lesson the other lesson is It's almost impossible to really play and coach yourselves and get better It's not impossible to play and coach yourselves It's almost impossible to play and coach yourselves and get better Um because you're just not It's just you just not attuned to the level of detail that eight coaches Yellen scream and smack me and you know the back of the head can do and that's that's yeah, that's why they have coaches And the the other it took away. It's also Look, we were reading react and We came together in a way that None of us wanted to had to expect to But when you shared and we had a common goal championship and man

30:21A bunch of us had real prospects for playing at the next level and This some of the yeah, we Part of what we had to do was grow up real quick in certain ways um And so a combination of of things and again one of the motivations and writing it was And talking to my teammates on the coaches this experience Impacted our lives and and stayed with us in our careers and our families and when I'm interviewing my teammates It was like I reach back in and so it was just a profound experience that impacted all of us Yeah, and I don't want to I'll ask one more question about the rest of the season and then I don't want to give away the ending Because I definitely think it's worth reading But eventually the coaches come back and so you have this this Lord of the flies culture Um, you know for five games Uh, you guys have kind of figured it out you've developed some systems

31:21It's not perfect, but then the coaches come back in and you guys have to adjust what was that like? Yeah, it was mostly a huge relief to be basically Have that but you know the theories of the times taken out of our hands So it was mostly a huge relief But it was awkward as hell in the beginning because I thought I knew Offensively I know what it took I know what What we could do and couldn't do it was more aggressive than what coach would do But I kind of demonstrated that I knew What worked for us and so it was that rain was hard to get back um And the same thing defensively we had We had kind of one touchdown And it was my fault because I had taken the first teamers off too early And if I had left the you know, so it was like we would have shut out Um, so it was awkward in the beginning He made a point of

32:21Demonstrating the sheriff is back in town which he needed to do and use me as an example and the rest of the captains who's examples Um, but it took a couple of weeks for us to basically I wouldn't say compromise because there's no he was in charge period full stop and the story It was in charge But he allowed for more input Um, then he would have traditionally I'd like to introduce you to our newest partner Roger Bank a modern digital military bank Built by military members for military members Whether your station state cider overseas Roger is designed to meet the unique needs of our men and women in uniform I recently opened an account myself in the process was incredibly smooth It took less than 10 minutes from start to finish now. Here's why I'm excited to partner with Roger They offer high yield checking and savings accounts zero account fees early payday and automatic savings with roundup match Their military ready direct deposit form is even auto populated and signed by the CEO saving you time and hassle

33:25Plus you get free global ATM access real person customer support And they even offer accounts for service members as young as 17 Funds are FDIC and sure through citizens bank of Edmund so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind Visit roger.bank to learn more that rogr.bank I wondered too, you know like as you were looking back on that, you know that back on that period You know for me every hard thing I ever I've ever done And I'll just say like from the green notebooks a great example, you know, I started it in 2013 I've sacrificed a lot of personal time a lot of energy To keep this thing going You know along with having a full-time job And there's a lot of ignorance when I when I went into that like okay. Yeah, I can totally do this

34:25Um, and I think like I don't know I think if I had it known I don't think if I'd have known how hard it would be And if like you know would have been laid out for me at at the get-go. I would have I would have jumped on you know I'm gonna build this thing is is that was that kind of like your experience like looking back like the ignorance of a 16 year old boy thinking he could be the head coach of a football team Yeah, I'm just I'm glad I had a narrow-minded focus and some version of blinders and was selfish as hell that there was only one thing we were collectively focused on And it was again, I don't want to make this sound like we had this grant we had no plan and then we read and reacted um Not thinking it would last five weeks. We thought it would like everybody else a couple of days of practice and coaches would be right back on the field And so the rest was it improvising to

35:27save our cities in and our futures and So there wasn't a real It wasn't a debate. It was okay. This is we have to do this or We're not going to college. We're not getting to scholarship. We're not you know This is like and that's not an option. That was like though that that's not an option and so We didn't have much of a choice. We didn't have any choice Yeah, well you did it I mean, yes, we did it Again, it was a collective effort. We right you you read the book and there were captains senior leaders there was a It took a village to uh create some of those wild stories and also to create the foundation for 127 points and given up one touchdown At what way like where were your parents and all of this I'm curious like your dad and your mom Yeah, so And I've been asked that question is because what would happen today

36:30So I'm one of six and back in that day um I said the the parenting they allowed you to feel the You know the consequences of your actions and decisions so My dad wasn't standing on the sideline yelling and screaming like I would be um he was Lot practice in sport He was supporting I found out about this as part of this diligence I didn't know at the time, but he was supporting a parent group um to force the union in the school boards and negotiate And so he was lending a hand in the negotiations didn't make me aware of that because he thought it would be Too much stress on me, but I was I wish I would have been made aware of so he he was doing that And my mother was focused on The other five kids and and I was going to practice and playing games and

37:31So it was Yeah, again, I'm like today. I'll use myself as the example I you know we're More helicopter like we're more enabling I would be screaming on the sideline. I wouldn't let my kid do what I did Now as You know, it's too dangerous and it's too stupid and It should should have never happened then and it shouldn't happen now, but I Um Well parents but our parents back then were a you Were left to send for yourself much much more except the consequences good or good or bad. I'm sure they were worried Um But I had five brothers and sisters and they were just as focused on them as they were on what I was doing And you're dreaming the time like the read the whole impetus of like I have to play this season was that your goal Was to eventually be the quarterback in newter name following in the steps of Joe Montana um, but like that dream

38:31Um didn't begin with you it began with your your father so what I'm curious about that too like that was what your dad wanted for you Um, I guess what was that like and then you know with your own children their dreams like his I've just curious like have you implanted those onto them or is it did that kind of give you uh some insights in the parenting yourself Answer the question yes all of the above um my father was the Notre Dame grand He was a did his god was a lot of green is under granted degree in five years He was the first one of seven boys to ever go away to college and he went to Notre Dame My dad was an everyday Catholic so going to Notre Dame was like visiting the Vatican and The head coach at Notre Dame was like the Pope whoever it was at the time as it's time I was being recruited was the end of mind And so there was never we what listened to every game

39:32He had Basically member bill you're all over the house It was it it was that my brother went to Notre Dame Older brother and I was expected to do the same And the fact that I was being recruited Was just special on top of special um and it was his dream it detained my dream Of course if I had a chance to point quarterback yet Notre Dame it's the dream of any kid that got raised as a Catholic and Joe Montana was Brother in play to guess Joe Montana and he he was From our area and I said I didn't want to comparison me to Joe Montana and you know Swoon and fall fall fall over um But yeah, that that was that was it was a big part of my dream Big part of his dream. It was a giant part of our relationship Um, and you have to read the book to see how it comes out Uh fair enough fair enough

40:33The uh And After all of the said and done right like you have this huge Formative experience your senior year of high school and and you know you go to college and and you know fine we won't talk about it But you eventually you know you go into the corporate world um how is that those leadership lessons trends translated to your adult life Yeah, and I do this in retrospect again because I don't want to make it sound like I Came out of college and had you know had it all figured out. I had nothing figured out um, but I was Always attracted to and drawn to um Building Underperforming groups made of underperforming people meaning the biggest challenges to me gave me the opportunity to replicate Some of that feeling and so when I my first experience had

41:38City group or a version of city group again They described it as the island of misfit toys. I ran The global consumer retail groups of city group in Morgan Stanley and each of the groups before I got there were underperforming groups with underperforming people And the three things that I applied in each situation that that I'd described and I Built with other people's help those groups into um, you know Very very successful top three groups It upon Wall Street As I said I applied three principles principle one was just to simplify one mission as a team not as individuals Meaning in an investment banking. It's all about getting yourself paid Don't mean to be that But it is it's all about getting yourself paid and so the first thing I did was Establish Real simple real clear Teen goals and if the team made it Team got paid if the team didn't make it no one got paid

42:38No one got paid. I don't care how how well your individual performance was And so that was one Rule number two was To basically have Role-modding mentorship if I didn't show it As a leader then they couldn't role model or see it so I always described it rolling up Your sleeves to your elbow. I'm gonna roll up my sleeves for my shoulders And so you had to role model the behavior you had to work the hundred hours you had to do the They had to see what it was what what it looked like and then the third thing was you just have to be Ruthless in patient and equal measure To on the people side to achieve those first two goals and I say the harder one is the patients one And if I didn't see right away That that person would be successful in one and two

43:40You have to you have to eliminate them from from the team And if you saw some light and some hope and others people didn't and that's why they were on the island of misfit toys Boy turning someone around into into that was this rewarding is getting paid It's not more rewarding That's awesome the thing that you said I think that like everybody a lot of leader struggle with is the patient's piece Where there are things that you've done to Where I would imagine that's a that's a skill that you have to work at Um to be patient with with other people as you're trying to move towards your goal Yeah, and again, it's just like in Military I'll sure you experience it Your boss doesn't have that patience and so you're defending someone that probably doesn't Garner at the time that time a patient so That that's harder than firing the first three people

44:40um But it is again As some of those People that you invested the patience and planted those seeds became the absolute best performers still in contact with them today It's beyond investment banking and getting paid and that that to me made it made the Crazy competitive in a sharp like environment more worthwhile I love that you said that and you know, I remember it's very specifically I'd gotten to a new unit We're about to go to this very rigorous training exercise. It was like 30 days long in the mahabi desert It's in the summer. It's hot and you know, I was looking around at my team and I was like well And I'm getting briefed as I'm coming into this job like hey this guy is this he's really good at this This guy this I was like what about that guy like he's don't even we're about talking to him like we don't even give him any jobs He's completely incompetent and you know, just I don't know figure out something and

45:45You know just sitting down and having a conversation with him and seeing the things that his eyes lit up for that he was like very passionate about I came to find that he had skills that none of us had And he enjoyed doing things that none of us enjoyed doing And so I remember we were trying to figure out And I can't remember the vehicle count, but it was like 5,000 people. How do you You know, Marshall 5,000 people worth of vehicles so several hundred vehicles To move out into the desert once everybody was staged and we were just like Scratching our heads and all of this said in this guy was like, you know, it's very easy And he like started like working out the math and everything like that And we were all just staring at him and stunned silence And then over the course of the month like he just kept Showing up more it was like as soon as we listened to him that first time and gave him that job He kept stepping up even more and more and even to this day like looking back on that experience

46:48He was a key player on this team That I think like if if you know, we wouldn't have had the conversation at the gikgo and to find those things He would have remained a misfit toy kind of cast out of the tent so to speak Yeah, it's a great experience. It's a great insight a great example And it's more important in your situation as a military unit And it is running around in the best bank. So that's that's powerful Yeah, so I again, I think that like story really resonates and there's a lot of people out there You know, whether people listening to certain investment banking Whether they're in some consultants consulting services or whether they're in the military Is like finding their skill sets and listening and then just being able to bring people together like you guys did back in 79 You can really make some some amazing things happen and I think that's another aspect of your story is each like you like you said On multiple interviews you talk about it in the book you you know, you've even talked about it today

47:52Is it it wasn't like Michael Eck the Michael Eck show like It was the team like it was the team other team captains and each of you guys Brought something to that like a different ingredient that made it such a successful season Yeah, I said the people that I don't know 10 coaches You know, you got everyone had to step up to our position coaches. We had to define a new term position coaches So they could coach the captains that were playing themselves and so It took you know, if you all say it takes a little it there's no it took and it also took and uh Second teamers and the guys the younger guys they had to buy it and You know, so it was That that's that that's the really the amazing part. I know i joke it's There there is a reason you don't have 16 and 17 by coaching themselves

48:52But we did and so and that that we as a capital W with a big eight It was it it was a elective Because everyone it wasn't a collective Yeah, well Michael I I appreciate your time today and again. This was a It's just an awesome like feel good book and I'm I'm hoping I I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll be able I'll be able to take my son to the movie One day or he'll be taking me But if if folks are interested in learning more about you more about the book Where can they find you? Yeah, I'm gonna do one plug if that's okay. So Michael at author comm will have background booktap trailer have ways to order it all that wonderful stuff But the most important thing it will have is the proletes are going to my nonprofit Which is an organization called steer for student athletes Which I started with other other founders

49:54back in 2012 and what we essentially do is the New York metropolitan market and New York City yonkers Westchester we go into the toughest schools and the toughest places and we identify at risk with promised student athletes Assigned mentorships get them through high school into college and into the workforce That we've had hundreds of student athletes Go through the program and so this is my Very small and very humble way to again identify Houseports impacted my life and how I'm using sports in this nonprofit way to impact other lives So that and that's described in on the website as well Thanks for the opportunity to plug that yeah, no that that's a that sounds like an amazing program Michael and thanks for thanks for sharing that well again, I appreciate your time. I appreciate the opportunity To read this book and I really wish you and the team nothing but success on this and and the proceeds for for the program

51:00Fantastic. Thank you and you've been great and I hope we get to meet in person sometime we probably will I don't see it. Yeah, all right, Joe. Thanks Thank you again for listening to another episode of From the Green notebook podcast If you enjoyed the show, please give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts It helps us gain visibility and the opportunity to help more people on their leadership journey Also make sure you check out our website at www.fromthe Green notebook dot com There you can listen to past episodes read leadership articles written by military leaders from around the world You could sign up for our monthly reading list email where you can learn about new books that are coming out And our Sunday reflection email that comes out every Sunday morning is really short. It's a two-minute read But I guarantee you it's going to start your week off on the right foot Finally make sure you follow us on twitter at ftg a notebook And you can find us on instagram and facebook by searching for from the green notebook again

52:03Thank you so much for coming on this journey with us. I am humbled by the opportunity to learn these lessons alongside you So please join us next week for another episode of From the Green notebook where we're going to help you lead with the best version of yourself Run and from the law