Leafs Direction with Frank Seravalli + Blue Jays Extensions

0:00And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date? Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Ah! Mito a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways. Only pay for what you need at Liberty Mutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Liberty. Fan morning to your sports and five nights of fan, fans, brand-gunning. Leafs Bruins tonight in Boston. The appetizer for tomorrow's Leafs Rangers Affair. Just an absolute must-lose in-regulation. You can be tough though. That Ranger team only got nine shots on goal yesterday. Well, they're two. Yeah, I guess. I don't know how that works when teams are bad.

1:00But I mean, like they're going to get more than nine against the Leafs. Yeah, I mean, the Leafs have allowed almost 200 more shots on goal than anybody in NHL. The Ranger team believe this is awesome. Swiss cheese, baby. Anyways, good stuff. Talk to Frank Cerevelli, NHL insider for Victory Plus. How's it going Frank? Good morning. Pretty good. How are you guys doing? Okay, so I have this question. Because, you know, early in the week, it was started. Our boy, Gord Stella said, this is the worst Leafs season he's ever been a part of. He's a former GM. He's been around this organization a while, which is wow. That was mind-blowing. But then you think about it. Yeah, he's considering expectations. Obviously not like the worst results they've ever had. But that makes sense. Are the Leafs in the worst position of any NHL team right now? It's currently constituted with the caveat. Of course, this can look. Hey, man, maybe they're going to have the greatest offseason of all time. But like, if you were going to evaluate futures and current roster and prospects and all of that, are the Leafs in the worst spot in the NHL right now?

2:01No, they're not. The Vancouver Conox said, hold my beer. Honestly, that the Conox are in by far, in my view, the worst position in the league. Not only is their prospect pipeline more or less almost as barren as the Leafs, they already got to the point where they traded their version of Austin Matthews, who plays on their back end in Quinn Hughes. And up front, they have a giant question mark in Elias Pederson that they don't know if they can get much value for, who's signed to a deal that has, what, six years left? I mean, it could always be worse. Okay, that's honestly. Thank you. Like, that's going to keep me warm at night until the playoffs start. And I don't have to think about this hockey team anymore. It is funny the way we think about that Conox team. And like, you know, you go back to a year ago, or I guess two years ago, then when the like Miller and Pederson feud was burbling under the scene there.

3:04And it's like, congrats. Like, you both lost the Civil War. It's like the Rangers end up with JT Miller. You see the position there. And now, I don't know that the Conox are like happy with the choice they made, but it's a position they find themselves in. You know, when you, when you look at the return for, for a guy like Hughes, like, how informative is that for? And again, like this can be about the Leafs with Matthews. It's going to be about the Leafs with Nylander. But this can be about any team that's like moving on from star player X. Like, that may be a good trade. And they may have a cornerstone piece there. And in William, who knows how, you know, that progresses. But isn't it kind of informative? And it's a nice reminder for the team that like, when you're giving away the good player in the trade, you rarely win it. It's not to say you can't pivot and there can't be like happier days, you know, three, four, five years down the line. But you just rarely win that trade when you're doing the like, you know, dollar for four quarters or like you hope those quarters eventually turn into dollars of their own. I'm really glad you use that analogy, because that's the exact one that I used on the day the trade was made.

4:07As for my assessment, I said, the canucks traded a dollar and got 30 cents in return with the hope that one day, maybe it could grow into 80. Like on the best case scenario in circumstance, like that's really the truth. Like I like Zeeb William. I think Marco Roce has some potential to be a, you know, a 2C. He's he's put up points, but doesn't have the size really. And I think on a true contending team is probably closer to 3C than 2C. And so then you really got a drill on the pick that you got and like, there's a lot of things that need to go right. So really to answer your question, what it's instructive of is a reminder. Don't don't get caught up in the. Well, there's only two years left on his deal. We don't know what's going to happen. We can't give you that much because we know we don't know who it is. We don't know if he's going to resign with you or not with us or not. I think you need to have the conversation of, hey, this is one of the true gamebreakers

5:12and game changers in the NHL. There's only so many of these to go around. You can either meet the ransom or we're keeping him playing as day. And I think when you go back to Jack Ikel or you go back and look at any of these other, like really significant players that have moved. Like that's that's the reminder is that they do move. But by and large, these teams aren't getting nearly enough for these players. No, they're not. How much is this the offseason for the? I know Matthews isn't off or is an extension eligible until the end of next season. But we've got indications that that before the extensions have been signed. They've been back channel conversation, not back channel. You can just factually talk to your players. There's nothing untoward about it just asking him if he's going to resign. And they've had assurances that he was going to resign. There was no problems there. Like how much is this the offseason for that conversation between the Leafs and Austin Matthews not next offseason? Well, I think you need to try and have that larger big picture conversation

6:17because this is such a big year of transition for the Leafs. Like you can't really go through this upcoming season. Have him say that he's assured now. And then find out on the other end of it that that's changed or he's not. It's almost like you need complete buy-in. And he needs to have a seat at the table and the conversation of, okay, here's the plan. Here's what we're going to execute on. Here's where we see some changes. Where we like to fill these holes and here's how here's a reasonable approach on how we're going to accomplish that. Not a pie in the sky. We're going to bring in every single guy that we said we will or something like that. And he needs to have some overview of the process so that he can get comfortable with it and feel like he not has any say or decision making power or sway. He is known to be the focal point of it, the linchpin, the backbone of whatever happens next because if he's not, the Leafs need to go in an entirely different direction and try and get to the bottom as quickly as possible, which I actually think won't be that difficult to do for this team.

7:35And I don't mean standings wise. I mean, freeing themselves from contractual obligations that will ham up a rebuild or get in the way. I think the Leafs, the one thing they have going for them, if they do decide to really care it down, they've got a lot of pieces that they can move that will be of interest other teams. Yeah, I mean, whether it's goal tenders you're looking at, whether it is the like big two now up front in Nieland or in Matthews and even a guy like Morgan Riley on the back end. It's like, you know, I don't think there's like a ton of value to be gleaned there, but in a world where someone would take him at this current cap that I think without having to give up anything. I agree with that. You know, the team I was kind of spitballing about this. I wasn't going to do this again, but I mean, you, well, I guess I brought it up, but here we go. It's like, could you see a world where there's like a Caldubis reunion in Pittsburgh with Riley? I mean, that's a team that already has like defenders that are kind of, they've committed to. They're not asking them to come in there and be the savior.

8:35They're committed to this like, all right, it's the band of older guys. And you know, Morgan Riley is not as old as we necessarily think of him as. You know, this is a team with going to be nearly 50 million bucks in cap space. And it's not to say they have everything spoken for. They got to find a couple of goalies for next year. But I mean, what would you make of a team like that kind of taking a flyer on Riley? And the other reason I think about it as well, Frank, is that there's just less and less players of note getting a free agency. And I'm not, I'm not blind to the reality of what Morgan Riley is now, but could you see like them as a potential landing spot for him? Obviously, there's a familiarity there with the general manager and knows what he'd be trading for. Yeah, I think that's a perfect landing spot and type of scenario because the penguins aren't willing to trade future assets to try and improve their team. But if it means taking on a contract when they have to spend anyway, I mean, why not? That'd be the perfect type of addition for the penguins. And I think maybe down the line, if things don't work out for Pittsburgh, because I think they're probably pretty right for a regression next year is maybe you can then turn around and retain money and flip Morgan Riley for something pretty significant down the line.

9:52I'll give you an example. Ryan Strom, who was actually fit pretty well in Calgary since the trade deadline. The penguins were also one of the teams that was calling at a time to get in on on Ryan Strom, if the ducks were looking to dump his money. And again, reason for that don't have to give up anything. It's just cap space. Maybe this is an asset that we can mine that not only will help us, but maybe in one year's time when he's appending UFA. This is a nice piece that we could flip at next year's deadline. Let's talk about the best player in the sport, who's had like some subtle jabs at his head coach and finding for yeah is like pretty explicit. They kind of walked it back because it's not really yesterday. Okay, the Irish are not home and cool though when it comes to making the playoffs that they're third in the Pacific division. There are only four points up on on the Kings or on the outside of the playoffs looking in the Kings have a game in hand. Might as well be 10 with the way the Kings cracking and everyone else is giving away that playoff spot to the Nashville predators.

10:58Yeah, Kings cracking have lost three sharks for straight for the sharks as well. I mean, they have three games in hand, but yeah, I know it hasn't exactly been a race to the finish. Anyways, is that anything more than just a economic David being just frustrated with the season in general that this was supposed to be gave you guys this incredible opportunity with the $12 million in the last couple of days. I mean, I think you have to open your eyes to the possibility of it based on all the things that you lined up. I mean, the fact that he didn't commit long term. The fact that they can't seem to get the mix right around them. What you're seeing play out to me in real time is a guy who is experiencing grasses greener syndrome.

11:59I mean, he's getting toward the end of his 20s and he's got heart trophies and a consummice and now an Olympic silver medal and he's been realistically as close as anyone can be without winning a Stanley Cup getting the game seven. And has no team accolade really to show for it. And people painted him as being the orchestrator of bringing in Chris noblock, which I don't think was true. And now he's dealing with the frustration of everything that can go wrong around him happening, including his partner and crime being in Munich. He's getting treatment over the weekend for an injury that's keeping him out for the remainder of the regular season. So the frustration is understandable, but the unforced error is in saying what he did. What he did was he just made Stan Bowman's life more difficult. Chris noblock's life more difficult and frankly his own job as captain of the team.

13:06More difficult when look, we're not naive. We know exactly what he was doing and saying he's the second Edminton Euler superstar this season to effectively start by calling out the coach. And that cannot possibly end well for anyone, which then if there is an Euler season that ends in object disaster, which is some kind of early exit or perhaps as you hinted at missing the playoffs entirely. I mean, how would that not be on the table to really take a long existential hard look this off season that we kind of. I mean, at least me personally had written off with this free agent class. It might get a whole lot more interesting now based on conversations that maybe had between Austin Matthews and Connor McDavid, who share the same agent. Yeah, they they sure do. I don't know like they made an agent the president Edminton. I don't know if that's that's on the table here and here in Toronto stranger things have happened.

14:10You know, okay, you mentioned that there's this belief and I mean, it certainly looks that way if you just like have a brain and you look at the situation from the outside looking in. It's like, hmm, his former agent is the president. His former junior coach is now the head coach there. I think part of the problem with NHL players by and large and I want to be clear. I'm not blind to the reality that this can exist on the on the opposite side of things like we've all made the GM LeBron jokes in the NBA forever is that it feels like NHL players. They just want to know there is a good plan. They don't particularly want to be involved in it so much. I mean, like even Sidney Crosby, there is no player that wields more power in an organization in this sport in this millennium than Sidney Crosby has with the penguins. Like he is not wanted to be the guy who's like, I don't don't talk to me about why they hired Kyle, Kyle Dubas go talk to ownership. That's their decision. Like, how much do you think it kind of complicates the questions of which way for NHL teams to go with this be at the least with Matthews, be at the Oilers with McDavid that by and large, these guys don't want to be the GM as well as the star player as well as the coach. They just want to kind of be hockey players.

15:12See, I don't buy that though because they say they want to be hockey players, but then they like, let's be real. You mentioned Sidney Crosby has wielded the most power, maybe of any player in the history of the sport over one franchise. And Conor McDavid is a close second, like there's not anything that happens related to that team that isn't first run by the captain and I don't mean for sign off, I just mean, hey, we're thinking about X, like you don't blindside Conor McDavid and Leon dryside, oh, that doesn't happen. And they wield more power than that I believe everyone even fully recognizes in the moment. I personally don't believe that the Oilers make the Stewart Skinner trade this season. If they didn't throw their hands up and basically say we're done with this guy and it doesn't have to be an overt message directly from Conor McDavid's lips to Stan Bowman's ears.

16:17But it can be things that you say in the media, it can be your body language with how you react to goals that are given up and different skids that this team goes on. That forces a general manager's hands and maybe the Oilers stick with Stu Skinner and maybe they get to the other end of the season. And he's a pending unrestricted free agent and they any walks and they reinvent their goal pending position as opposed to trading for another version of them that is extended longer. Yeah, worse for more money. So these players have power. They do at times compound problems that exist and I'm not saying it's on him. I'm just saying that we live in this world where Conor McDavid with 116 points as arguably the best player on planet Earth gets no criticism. He gets no part of the blame. And I listen to those comments on Saturday and I think you're gushing about a guy that you want to silver medal with like he didn't get you to the top.

17:24You guys were at the top and part of your decision making process and your chance selection in OT is what cost your team? What about Saturday night when you're trying to run through a five on three? What about your line being carved out all night long? Like I'm not painting Conor McDavid as the enemy or the problem by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just saying to think that he doesn't hold some percentage of of the criticism for what's happened in Edmonton. I think is wrong is that it's not an all or nothing. All management zero players game. It just isn't. Yeah, for a guy like we think of hockey as the sport and certainly Canadian as the nationality of this. Yeah, we just, you know, we're here and we're not making waves and just. Yeah, he's pretty vocal, right? Like he does make waves. Well, I was going to say like, could it pass of aggressive? Just come out to that yesterday and say, yeah, I said what I said.

18:26Let's move on. Well, because on I think like walk it back. We know what you were doing. Like we didn't misconstru it. You asked the question about the lightning and you gushed about how perfectly coach they were and well rehearsed and well executed. It was there was no accident here. It was he did exactly what he wanted to do. It blew up in the exact way that he wanted to and then for team shake. Because this is hockey, we all need to walk it back the next day. Yeah. Now, I think he very much would accept a trade of Christmas block for John Cooper. I think that's clear and who wouldn't always. Yeah, but John Cooper has had Andre Vasilevsky. No, he showed that in there too. Yeah. John Cooper made sure to throw that in there. Uh, Frank, I always appreciate the time. Thanks, buddy. Have a good one, guys. See ya. Frank Servelli and Angelina Sider for victory. Plus and God, I just hate that he could throw in the silver medal stuff as if like, uh, yeah, whatever we won the four nations.

19:29Okay. Same exact thing. Just as important as we all said in the lead up to it. Yeah, as if like that's like, he wants the guy that he didn't even win with this. Like, okay. Sure. Yeah. I do. I do hate it. It is interesting, though. And I got to have like more of a think on exactly like what I think about this or what. I think I want to make. No. But I mean, who's had more success in this era? Conor, David or Austin Matthews. It's not even close, right? Like, it's obviously Conor, but he's played in Stanley Cup finals. He has won more heart trophies. He's won more scoring titles. Yeah. Like we can go down the list. More than more 69 goal seasons. Yeah. There's not a category that Austin Matthews can hold himself up above. I guess the Olympic gold medal. A silky votes. Okay. Sure. But generally speaking, like, who has had a better go of it? Yeah. I think it's all fair to say we'd all take Conor McDavid's career over Austin Matthews. And who has had a better seat for how good John Cooper has been at his job the entire time than Austin Matthews. We've never heard this out of him. Do you know? Like, how many times could Austin Matthews have taken a pot shot at Craig Baroube about how

20:30he's felt? Or the goal or the goalie or the GM or shielding Keith or Kyle Dubis before him or any of these times. And now never said boo about it. Now, I can go both ways with that. I can go like, wow, actually understands the weight of his words a little more keeps his powder dry. You could also do the like maybe doesn't care as much thing because McDavid is just like oozing out of him that it's driving him insane. There you could kind of talk me into either side of that argument. Yeah. State this topic explicitly when we did the McDavid thing at 630, but I'll do it now quickly. Okay. Oilers missed the playoffs or losing the first round or whatever. Sure. Um, who feels least likely to be with their current team once their contract is up and it would probably mean a trade before that, but Austin Matthews or Conor McDavid. Yeah. That was that was once a like crazy proposition to bring up on either account. Now it's like it does it not like I can make the argument that Matthews is just how Matthews happy to live in right backland.

21:30I don't think awesome. I've said this. Yeah. No. So I don't think he's going anywhere. I agree. I do. I think short of them being like we are capitulating. We are bottoming out forever. And even then you might have to like throw them up the door. Uncle Phil Jazzy Jeff style. Get out of here. Yeah. First, first Austin Matthews Jazzy Jeff comparison ever made in history probably. Maybe. No, I think definitely who's go ahead? What scenario would it have? Fine. Yes. You did it. You're the first person to ever do it. No, I don't. I don't. I'm sure people in Edmonton be apoplectic that you even compared the two, but come on. Like just take what we have publicly available. Mm hmm. So on the one hand, it's just like everybody all the Matthews speculation is exactly that. It's it's unsourced people assuming. Sure. Obviously can't be thinking about signing up for more of this, right? Oh, and God forbid the horrible market that everybody talks about.

22:30It's so horrible. And he loves it. Yeah, he loves it. It's by the way, anybody that's ever been here. Also, all they say is that they don't want to leave. Mm hmm. One guy. Okay. One guy. Yeah. He wears 93 and his jersey is sparkly. Sure. And his team stinks too. Yeah. I mean, the Golden Knights will figure it out in the playoffs. Just like the Oilers will figure it out in the playoffs. Well, you know why they're going to score. You know why they might one of those teams might figure it out in the playoffs. They're going to play a Pacific division. Right. That's why we actually it's like the worst thing that can happen to you is win that division. You're like, God, I play a wild card team. Why would you do that to yourself? You distract me. Sorry, sorry. I do need like before I go back to my other thing. Mm hmm. Like who likes this playoff format other than the commissioner? Like I have you met a single person that's like, this is awesome. Like keep this. God forbid we go one through eight again. No, at the outset of it, I do think there were people that bought the argument of like, oh, yeah, it's great. You'll see the teams and rivalry. Sure. And then we actually saw it with our own eyes play out all the time.

23:31Not a soul on earth likes it. Anyways. So that's sorry. No. Yeah, awesome Matthews. All he's ever said, want to be a leaf? Love being a leaf. Mm hmm. I'm a leaf. All I've ever done is sign extensions. My earliest possible convenience. I don't know. The Connor McDavid loves anything though. And like that's the difference. It's like, I've seen lots of Matthews on occasion. Be happy. I don't know if I've ever seen it from McDavid. I guess. I don't know. I have you. A smile. Yeah. No. I don't know. He made me happy when he wrote that player's Tribune article. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think he was sitting there like like just grinning you to your dictating it to some guy who actually wrote the piece for him? Who's pissier, him or Leon? It's a good question. Well, again, it's like you sometimes you spend enough time around a couple. Yeah. And you're always like, I don't know why. And that one's like, oh, yeah. I mean, you'd think you'd want somebody happy in the marriage, but apparently not. Yeah. I think it's unequivocally true that you'd feel less certain about McDavid's future in Edmonton.

24:33If things continue the way they appear to be headed in Edmonton as opposed to Austin Matthews in Toronto. Yeah. Because not to say things are good here. Well, and it's like Austin Matthews. If you also want to throw like the contract stuff into it, it's like, Austin Matthews has stayed consistent. He's like, yeah, I'm not going to take a long contract. I don't know what it's like. The last one before this one, McDavid's like, yeah, do you have 10 years? No, we can only do eight. Sorry. I'll take last money. And now all of a sudden, it's like, how about two who's trending in the wrong direction there? Yeah. Great point. Thank you. Josie Jeff. All right. When we compare, just don't understand that's right. Yeah. I was well, but damn true. He was there. Yeah, he was the both of you. I know. I was a child. Okay. When we come back, Ben Nicholson Smith is the fan morning show continues. Ben and his friend got an Exporcent 590, the fan. President Barack Obama. Virginia, we are counting on you. Republicans want to steal enough seats in Congress to raid the next election and wield unchecked power for two more years.

25:33But you can stop them by voting yes by April 21st. Don't put our elections back on a level playing field and let voters decide not politicians. Vote yes by April 21st. Vote for five Virginians for fair elections. Good morning, Joe. Sports at five nine of the fan bands. Brain gunning. Yeah, top gun theme doesn't have piano. No. Grey balls of fire has piano, which is in top gun, which I assume is the song that Mac sure there was playing on the piano when he saved his career last year.

26:35Again, like if he's ripping off danger zone on the piano, he's more talented than I knew. Well, there's a piano. Hold on. Yeah, but this couldn't be what saved a guy's thumbs. That's not enough of a jaunty tune to save a thumb. No. You're right. What? You think a little boom in there? No. Come on. Yeah. You really like just hammering it. Yeah. Yeah. I can't even miles tell her. Yeah. It's up to Ben Nicholson Smith on the line as we count down the days until a regular season baseball on Friday. So Benny. Hey guys. Yeah. That was quite a story, wasn't it? Nice. Nice to be reporting here by Ken Rosenthal. It's pretty wild that at 41, Max Scherzer found the team ward to keep that thumb healthy. Yeah. It is wild that he just came up with it on his own too that nobody said, Hey, why don't you play the piano? He just started playing as like this feels better. And now he's like addicted. Like you read the story. It sounds like, Oh, I can't stop. If I saw my thumb will explode once again. I don't know. What do you make of the spring he had?

27:35Because man, we saw what he was at times last year, which is like, wow. And I remember that starting Detroit. It was really, really good. And there were times I was like, is this the game one starter for the blue jazz considering his experience? And then yeah, fell off back half of the year and then starting game seven of the of the post season of the World Series and and keep it a minute. I gave up one run didn't get through five. But now he's throwing 95 and fully healthy. It's spring. But like, what do you make of that? Well, one he's healthy. So that is a big deal, especially given what has happened elsewhere in the chase rotation as you guys know. And then two, he is throwing 95, touching 96 and throwing strikes. So that's before where you can talk about any kind of result as far as what happened in the games. His stuff is good and he's healthy. So when you combine that with someone of his experience level and just how he what he knows about pitching, how he can get hitters out with sequencing and pitch mixing, that's

28:36a really good combination. So I think he's going to be in a good spot to get the J's off to a really good start here. A big part of the rotation to begin the season. And yeah, I'm really excited to watch him at 41, turning 42 this year. I mean, this is this is a really cool story. And more to the point, he's still has the ingredients to be a good, majorly picture. Yeah, and if you were going to say, hey, there's a time of the season we really need backshars or you know, I'm not putting a ceiling on this. I'm not saying he can't be effective later into the year. You'd way rather need him at this point in the year than as the season goes on and there's just more miles. And you know, the farther we get away from when he was born and he's deeper into becoming 41 or 42, it does feel like this is the time of the year you would want again, like, you don't never want injuries to be a thing. You never want to need any one particular guy, but if you were going to say, there's a pocket of the season that we got to trust, mac shurs or in, I'd feel way better about it at this point in time than in, you know, August or into September. I mean, we'll see how it unfolds as far as which pocket, but what's interesting is they

29:40definitely need him now. And I thought initially when they signed him, I actually thought that he might be ramping up pretty slowly and deliberately from some of the conversations that I had had. I was under the impression that maybe it is May 1st, maybe it's just, you know, easing him in and getting him midway through the year, which I thought, hey, that could have been fine as well. But clearly, he was ready. He had been working out on his own and had advanced pretty far. And because of the injuries to Barrios and the slow ramp up and shoulder impingement for your savage, then they really need mac shurs or now. So ideally, they have seven really good options by July and seven more really good options in October. But as of now, they only have five and five's good enough, but it's kind of right on that edge. So he is a huge part of what they're doing along with the others. Yeah. The savage shoulder impingement, yeah, is something that I've done a 180 on after a conversation with Jeff Blair yesterday because I thought we were just being, oh, okay, they've been hiding

30:43something this whole time. But it does feel like, hey, this is just a great spot. Nobody is upset if he's continuing to accrue Major League service time and not being in the Major League and saving his bullets for later in the season. Like, what is his return to the Major League's, if he is fully healthy, like is it dependent on a need at the Major League level, like what if, you know, maybe Cody Ponds can't hack it or Eric Lauer looks not like a viable Major League starter. Does that impact the decision making when it comes to the return to the Major League's for a tray of savages and entirely him building up to a pitch level that they want and what is that level? When he returns, you think he'll be a normal starter? That's a great question. As of spring training, the buildup plan was just to get him to three or four innings at a minimum. And they wanted that Gilly five. So if we're talking pitch camp, three or four innings, that's 45 to 60 pitches, getting right, you know, five innings at 75 plus, you know, approaching 100, which is of course,

31:45your full buildup. So he needs to be beyond 50 pitches to be any kind of a viable starting pitcher. I mean, they have a lot of different options here. Step one is to get him just fully going, you know, going not at 90%, not at 95%, going at 100%, and doing it in a game atmosphere. Even if it's a minor league game, that's fine, but that's got to be part of the buildup at some point, especially for a guy who, you know, hasn't really spent that much time in spring training period, right? He was just drafted a couple of years ago, even just getting into professional games, there's a value in that for him that not sure if there doesn't need any more, that Kevin Bosman doesn't need any more. So as he gets acclimated to ABS and to working with the Blue Jays coaching staff and captures, there is, that's all part of the ramp up that you don't just want to have him in a, in a off amount. He needs to get into games. So that will be part of it. As for the timing, I think that there are a lot of factors. If Eric Lauer goes out there and shoves for three weeks, that would probably mean that

32:49the Blue Jays don't have to rush it quite as much. If there is an injury, that probably makes them more inclined to reach for your savage when he's at 50 pitches instead of 75. And I think that's okay. I think it can all be somewhat circumstantial, but really step one is just getting him going at 100% speed and doing it in somewhat of a game setting, which my boy, because tomorrow he's going to be in a minor league game, that's an important step. Do that a couple more times, see where the shoulders at, see where the buildup is at, and then you can have a real conversation about getting them into the major leagues, which won't be a challenge if he is pitching anywhere close to his 100%. Yeah. With him having this, you know, odd start to the season, the slow buildup. And yeah, like to your point, they want to get him to 100% and they want to build up the pitch count. Does this change at all like the belief of what kind of season he can have? I mean, there was always a possibility of some level of regression. And I only say that because he was so good last year, like it seems impossible to maintain that level that he was at, especially what it was giving you kind of deep into the playoffs.

33:50But does him having this odd start to the season, like does it change your belief of what the kind of like high end he can give you this year is at all? I think it does. As far as the innings total, just by simple virtue of the fact that he is starting more slowly than we would have guessed three months ago, he's ramping up very deliberately starting the season on the injured list. So at a certain point that eats into the potential innings that he could eat. And therefore to the total production that he could have. But I think on a per inning basis, my expectation is the same as it's ever been, which is pretty high considering what we saw. I mean, clearly there's a lot of ceiling here with Traius Average. At the same time, I don't think any reasonable baseball observer, whether it's a teammate, coach, a fan, I don't think anyone is reasonably going to expect Traius Average to go out and dominate to the same extent that he did in the playoffs last year. I mean, that was amazing. It was, you know, counts among the most historic pitching performances in the history of this

34:51franchise, obviously. But, you know, I don't think anyone's really expecting him to be at that level. There has to be room for him to be a rookie in the major leagues, be a good rookie. I think he's going to be a good pitcher when he's fully healthy and going. But, you know, 12 strikeouts against the Dodgers, that's not going to happen every time. No, only because he's not going to face the Dodgers every time. Like, yeah, when he does, like, I, I expect that to be the result. Okay. So the Blue Jays have to finalize the 26 man roster tomorrow, season opens tomorrow in San Francisco between the giants and Yankees. And we've, we've got now two names of the bullpen. I'm less interested in the bullpen and Spencer Miles Chase league. And if sure, go with the, the guy who you lose if you don't put them on the roster, whatever, we know that stuff changes routinely, right? Like they ate man and bullpen in and out that could change as early as this weekend. I guess so could the bench as well. But I think people have a lot more emotional equity as they should in a guy who hit a pretty big home run in the World Freaking series in David Schneider versus Leo Jimenez.

35:56But also, man, I just, like, I go down the list of things that you're considering when considering the 26 man between the two. One guy can play shortstop, plays the infield, doesn't have options. One guy can play second base, but it's not a shortstop. And even if you're like looking at David Schneider as the right-handed platoon option for a, you know, a Nathan Lucas or a Hazus Angez, he actually hit righties better than lefties last year. Like this actually as difficult as it is to not start the season and not have David Schneider here on opening day on Friday when they unveil their American league championship banner. Doesn't it seem like an obvious choice that it's Leo Jimenez? I like your take there, Ben. I mean, I like it partly because I don't agree with it. All right, let's go. Let's go. You know, I know you have lots of smart baseball takes. So, you know, this is the fun of it, I guess, this time of year. But no, to me, I just, I think like if they had a really, really compelling shortstop

37:04that was clearly, you know, ready for major league pitching, someone who had a proven track record against major league pitching, and could handle the position defensively, you know, then we're maybe having a different discussion, but Leo Jimenez in his career really hasn't done that much offensively. And it's not like he's Andreas Jimenez defensively, with all due respect, he's a Republican infielder. We're talking about a guy who has a 207 lifetime average and a 635 lifetime OPS. I'm not going to be doing backwards cartwheels to get this guy in the roster personally. So, to me, my default would be Davis Schneider is on the roster unless someone else comes and shows that they must be on. And I personally, from the information that I've gathered and from what I saw, I'm not there. So, you're a believer then in in Joss Kassovitch. I mean, maybe Leo Jimenez, you know, he's, he's a righted and not claimed and they can stash him at AAA or maybe maybe he is claimed, but yeah, I mean, you are in real danger of losing

38:04some depth at that position, right? Like barring an injury and I don't know, Ernie Clement is a very capable shorts off as well. He's got to play second base like so to your, I guess you're of the belief that, hey, losing him as that's okay because Kassovitch can play the position and like he's major league ready right away. We don't need any more buffer between him and the major leagues and say what you will about him and as his results at the major league level they haven't blown you away. He's at times like he's looked capable, like league average-ish, right? You almost sound like you believe that. Yeah, but okay, so yeah, so are you saying you believe in Kassovitch? Yes, yeah, I am and I think that's part of the equation. Like, you're right to say that you can't be too flippant with depth and so if Leo Manna's really was that final layer of major league, major league ready middle infield depth, then there wouldn't really be a choice. They would have to option someone, whether it's Lucas or David Schneider. They would have to find a way to preserve that infield depth. Now, in this case, from what I've seen of Josh, Josh Kassovitch,

39:06he is a good defensive shorts off to play around the infield and makes great contact. And not only does he make contact, but he's finding ways to lift the ball and get it in the air better this spring. So he's healthier than he was last season when he dealt with the back stress fracture. This guy is going to play in the major league this year. He's going to have a 40-man thought at some point this season. And I'm not, I wouldn't be hesitant to put him in that spot. So that informs the whole discussion for me as well. Yeah, that the, I just wish David Schneider hit lefties better, right? Like I wish he was like the thing that you imagine him being is not what he is. I mean, he got, got like so pretty good. Yeah, sure did. He surely did. And that was a memorable moment. And yeah, his dad having the medical asses on was awesome. And I'm now a follower. His dad is a prolific tweeter, by the way, always tweeting, like nonstop, nonstop, nonstop. But I like David Schneider.

40:06I think he's a major league player and I'm really interested to see what he looks like with ABS. It's just, yeah, that's, so he's not the antidote to the Nathan Lucas, Jesus Sanchez of it all as far as a right handed option but tunewise. Like, are they kind of missing that guy? And it's like, it does feel like that you wish there was a better option against lefty starters, which is not like, obviously there's way more righty starters than lefties or righty relievers. But like, is that if you were going to nitpick the roster, are they kind of missing that guy? I think that that would be a logical compliment. And I think that David Schneider can be that guy. I am intrigued to see if he can do it this year, notwithstanding the results from last year in this split. I believe that he can, he can be that. Now, that doesn't really get them anywhere. They need results, not believe. So that's where us, signing like Aloy Hamenez is interesting. I think that Aloy Hamenez, you know, he's going to start the season of AAA,

41:08potentially get an opportunity at some point this season. This is someone who has real power and who can run into one. At the same time, I do wonder if there are ways to pitch to him. And the result certainly in the upper miners last year will not. That, they weren't, they weren't good. So I'm not just locking in loading that because he's a big name, he's going to be able to get results against the best pitchers in the world actively game planning for him. It's a tough job. And yeah, I think that it's fair to say that they could use some more certainty there. But yeah, that's, that's not uncommon at this point. You know, Yankees are trying to milk something out of Randall Gritcha. You know, that's, that's kind of, that's kind of what happens this time of year is even the good teams are looking for certainty under better. Yeah, old friend Randall, that, that I had forgotten about him. Okay, somebody who will not be a part of the Blue Jays bench, he will be a part of the starting nine and he will probably be leading off most games. George Springer. How much of a hinge point on what the Jays are offensively this season will he be?

42:11I mean, you're already suffering the loss of Boba Shatt not being in this lineup. How much can they afford a regression season from George Springer? And like he can regress and still have a very productive offensive season. But how much is he a hinge point for this team offensively? Yeah, I think that's a fair way to look at it for sure. I mean, Springer, it's, it really is wild to me looking back at last season that only two players had a higher WRC plus than Springer in baseball. And it obviously, parent judge and show here with Tony. I mean, to be third behind two future Hall of Famers, two guys who are having, you know, just incredible peaks to their career offensively. And then next up is, is the Blue Jays lead off hitter. So that's, as you said, Brent, that's a really high base to work from. And even if he falls off considerably from that, he can still be one of the best hitters on the team. He can still be one of the better lead off hitters in the American League. So I think there should be optimism that he can produce, given some of the changes he made last year.

43:11Some of the mental approach ships where he really wanted to be in a cack mode. He wanted to get his A swing off as often as possible. And we saw that translate into results. So I think that Springer's going to be one of the most important offensive players, along with Ladi, along with Okomoto. Someone like Kurt, I think we know what the Blue Jays are going to get there. I think that it's a little easier to predict. We have he's in his prime as long as he's healthy. He's not going to walk or he's not going to strike out a lot. He's going to make a lot of contact. And you kind of know what you're going to get. But someone like Springer, someone like Okomoto, I think that there are bigger ranges for what they could offer. And yeah, we're going to soon find out where exactly they fit in those ranges. Okay, but the hinge point, like the differentiator between the Blue Jays having a good season and a bad season is the eighth reliever. All right, who is it? Spencer Miles or Chesley? Who you got? I personally, I mean, are we talking prediction or who would I choose? Well, both.

44:12You give two separate answers if they're going to do that. Yeah, we'll know. I'm going to say prediction. They're going to go 3D chess mode, 4D chess mode, and take Spencer Miles, a little five pick with 10 games of professional experience. And see what happens. That's an interesting approach. Personally, I think Chesley is the more intriguing option out of those two. And so I'm making a double prediction there. We'll see which way. Ultimately, as you kind of hint at that, I mean, this is, it's going to be okay either way. This is not where the game's not in doubt if those guys are pitching either of them. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's for sure. But, you know, I look at Chesley last year, he was pretty good. And I don't know that he's done it in the major leagues. I would be, I would be going there. Yeah, Spencer Miles throws really fast, though, I guess. I don't know. I like that.

45:12That's me too. Yeah, yeah. I like it. Yeah, it's kind of the most important thing. All right, Betty. I can't wait to see real baseball tomorrow. And then for the Blue Jays on Friday. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, guys. Talk to you. So yeah, Ben Nicholson Smith. Yeah, that's right. Spencer Miles. Sure. Uh, he makes a compelling case for, for David Schneider. He's right to say that Leo Jimenez. I mean, as much as I make fun of like the eighth reliever being the hinge point, like Leo Jimenez isn't making or breaking you. I don't think like there is a scenario. Though in which it does, right? If Andre Sumanis injured, Yep. Or Ernie Clement is injured or God forbid, both of them are injured. Yeah, like you need a short stop. Oh my god. Can you imagine both? Yeah, yeah. Injuries do have. I'm aware. Yeah, I know. It's the most important defensive position outside of catcher. But you can kind of find those glove guys that would give you nothing. And I guess you can sort of find short stops as well. But you have one within the organization. Josh Casavitch, if he can do it, I haven't seen him.

46:14I've read lots of great stuff. If you feel comfortable that something like that happens and all the sudden, always not only do we get to see like you have to play shortstop. Yeah, it's like what get two turns into half to real soon. Yeah. Yeah, I just I'd be a little bit worried about that. Now I it's quite possible. Leo Jimenez just gets through the DFA process and I write it to triple A anyways and he's your depth there anyways. But yeah, I'd just be a little careful with that stuff. Yep, as would I. And I think if you have time, you should use it. And if you have options, you should use them. Thanks for the guys with them. Yep, that's the brakes. Totally. All right, we'll be back tomorrow with another edition of the fan Morning Show, Ben and a spring gunning sports net five down in the fan. Good morning.