Leading with Purpose with Sujatha Ramani

0:00Welcome to the software people's stories. I'm Shiv. I'm Chitra and I'm Gaiti. We bring you interesting untold stories of people associated with the creation or consumption or software based solutions. You'll hear stories of what worked and sometimes what didn't. You will also hear very personal experiences and insights that would trigger your thoughts and inspire you to do even greater things. Before we jump into today's conversation, a special thanks to PM Power Consulting for encouraging and supporting this show right from the start. With over a thousand person years of collective experience, PM Power has helped many organizations, teams and individuals chart out their own journeys of excellence and make progress. Thank you, PM Power. Now, let's move to today's episode. I'm very excited to welcome all of you into the March

1:08month where we are showcasing extremely powerful individuals right from a climatic expert to a person who's actually beaten all odds in terms of health and the technology world. She's a senior director for a software and I'm also super excited to share our male ally to share what he thinks about women who are breaking various constraints and various barriers and how he looks at the world very, very differently. In this episode, you will hear Sujata Ramani talk to my co-host Shiv Guru about her journey and how she started in her grassroots in Krichi and moved on to Chennai and working in H.P and in big enterprises and moving into startup and creating her different sets

2:09of micro entrepreneurs in her current role as CEO of pollinate. She covers how she had to fall back on her enterprise connections as and when mentoring and deep connections were needed as well as what it takes to alleviate poverty and bringing awareness at extremely important stages of creating social change at the mindset as well as at the grassroots. Listen on to this outstanding conversation with Sujata Ramani. Hi Sujata, I welcome to these software people's stories. Thank you so much Shiv, my privilege. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah, I'm very eagerly looking forward to this after our brief conversations that we had earlier. I think there is so much that you have to share and that we're inspiring for our business and as I mentioned, this is going to be one of the women's month episodes.

3:12So I think there will be more women expecting with things that would inspire them to probably achieve at least a part of what you have achieved. But before we get into that, we will start with your origin story, how you got associated with IT also and then roughly your project will take you from there. Sure. Thank you Shiv. Like I said, it's a new genre for having this privilege to talk to you today. I'm born and brought up in Chennai and then my dad got transferred to Trichi so I completed my college and then my post-grad in Trichi and the story starts from there. So when I finished my school, I got into Bitsbilani, one of the A schools in India and I'm the only daughter amongst five boy cousins that I grew up with, one brother of my own. And you know, as you will know, was the highly cherished in the family. But that cherishing

4:13came in the form of a barrier for me to say, no, no, you can't go that far to Rajasthan to pursue your college education. So I was Chris Fallon and I said, now that's something that I'm not taking it lying down, but I couldn't prevail, right? My family said, no, no, that's not done. So the only privilege that I had was to say you can go, you know, overnight train journey to any location that you would like to. So well, then I continued my education in Trichi and then I moved on to coming to Bangalore to start my career in IT, which is that one overnight journey from Trichi and that's how I landed here in Bangalore. And yes, of course, my IT journey started from there. I worked with the best of the brands, Microland, Vipro and HP, HP was my longest tint around 17 years. And from there on, I almost was not expected to quit from HP, but I did finally with the bug of startup, you know, having bitten me and I said, I have to do something now in the startup area.

5:17And I always had this urge as a kid to do something on my own. And so I said, okay, now if not now, when else? And in 2013, I quit HP after spending 17 years there and I tried one startup idea and then I moved on to try another startup idea. And then in 2017, I moved to the social space ever ever been here. So since then, I've been with in the social space trying to, you know, create a change in the world that we live in. And since 2019, I'm here with pollinate group, the organization that runs with the poorest of the poor women, marginalized women who have access to no education or raw opportunities. We work with them to help them build a small micro business and have access to income. So that's in short, my career journey up until now. Wonderful. Yeah, before we go deeper into the social space, what are the kind of roles that you've played, whether it's in the micro land, the commitment used to be more of the networking company. Yes. So the pro HP

6:20was it the hardware side, sales side, R&D side? Yes. So this is another interesting story. I graduated in 91 after my management and it was kind of the early stage of the IT industry blossoming in India. And I my target company at that time was CMC, right? I'm coming from a public sector background of my father and BHL and so on. So I said, that's my goal company and I wanted to prepare for an interview for with CMC and before which Michael and came to the campus. So I said, let me get one practice interview with them. And as luck would have it, their offer, you know, went off the cutoff mark for me to sit for any future interviews. And hence, I couldn't go for the my goal organization and I joined micro land. Fantastic experience being there as a software product executive was my first role there. And this is another interesting piece. I was told that I have the flare to, you know, get on to sales and business development, but I refused. I said, no, I'm not here to go and convince people. I'm better off creating products, understanding

7:22products and features and benefits and creating a tool or a method to explain the product to customers. Well, and then I joined VIPRO in the peripherals and international business division. And there I again, you know, moved a little closer to the market. I worked with the channel partners of peripherals and helped grow the channel business for peripherals under RNA in VIPRO. And then I moved on to compact and HP that got merged together. And that's how my journey in compact and HB. In fact, if I add compacts 10 years along with my HB channel, it will be about 18, 18 and a half years in the combined entity. At HP is where I think I blossomed into who I am right now. I took my first business development and sales role in that organization. And I think I've never had to look back after that. I want to share this experience because the kind of, you know, constraint I put to myself saying I won't do sales turned out to be the best, you know, ability

8:23that I had when I joined HP. It just turned out to be one of the most compelling, you know, attributes that I had. And I got chosen within three years of being in the organization to get the president's award, which is a top one percentile of HP employees. And there were about 120,000 employees in HP worldwide at that point in time. And to get chosen to be a top high performing, you know, sales person was testimony to the fact that I had my own, you know, restraints and I didn't have that self-belief in me initially, which I broke, you know, and then it kind of, you know, took me to different different levels. And those 17 years in HP were truly transformative. You know, I did multiple roles, managing enterprise business, managing channel partners, managing distribution, doing global marketing and communications, then doing global R&D. And when you say R&D, I'm not that nerdy techy person at all, but it was a huge opportunity when globally a technology that was all

9:25developed and, you know, originated and developed in the US was transitioning to India. And they wanted a marketing and sales and customer champion to also be a part of that tech transition. Because technology alone, when you bring, and if you don't bring the knowledge of the customers that have been, you know, adopters of their technology and continuous supporters of their technology, you're leaving a piece behind. So I joined that team of knowledge transfer as a customer, global customer programs advocate. And that was also a beautiful, you know, transformative experience that I had on very proudly bringing one technology and developing that technology in India for the global market. And, you know, continuing to have those customer relationships, understanding the future roadmap of development for that product through those customer engagements and providing that input to the R&D team. So that was a very enriching experience that I was going through in HP after which, you know, I think they start a bug bit me and I quit HP to run my own

10:26organization after that. So one of the things that we always wonder about people who are in the tech side is that they get absorbed in the technology. But when you want, like you mentioned in it, the customer program advocate, how do you develop an understanding or empathy for the users of the customers? Fantastic question. So this is one of the most important things that you learn only by being in front of the customer, right, which I learned the hardware first five years in my Vipro and Michael and days. I was more a backend person trying to do that. But I think when I spent those years in front of the customer, even today, I feel while you're challenged the most when you sit in front of the customer, you also learn the most when you sit in front of the customer. Not just because what the customer is describing as what they want, but also from the fact the choices that the customer has from competition and how do you describe your product and solution and

11:32services in the context of what the customer wants versus what the competition has and how do you in a nuanced manner explain this to the customer to say this is the best option for you. I think that is a place where we learn the most and I cannot be more thankful for having that experience at multiple variants of all of that having managed customers directly then having channel partners who manage customers then managing distribution which also goes back to customers at the end of it all. So I think it gave me a whole and then marketing and global communications was another aspect of bringing in the news that needs to be fed to the customers and so on had a lot of layers that had left with me to be able to confidently drive that global program because that global program needed me to work with Emia the Americas and Asia Pacific as a region to understand all of these you know types of customers and it's not just the types

12:34it's also the multicultural ways in which they decide on anything ways in which they look at solution. So it was a very very enriching experience to work with about 100 HP internal ambassadors who were also managing the customers at the other end and we used to run these ambassador programs that helped me manage this and learn a lot from that experience. So are these skills trainable skills or are they based on what you're in a very good question. So Shiv I think you know I'm a firm believer that you just need to be a good material right with that material you can make a shirt you can make a kurta you can make a blouse right I think that flexibility one should always be showing see I am this person with this attributes now this attribute can be used towards doing something as you know item A or item B or item C I think the aptitude comes with the attitude that you show towards

13:38what is in front of you and somewhere I think in my upbringing I was given that much of freedom and I mentioned you read I grew up with four you know four boys and one brother of me on totally five I think I've had to always fight for my space and in doing so I think I opened out many you know aspects of myself to be you know made malleable to be made adaptable for all of this. So I think it's about how you lend yourself to you know the situation that is in front of you and how you want to explore yourself to be fitting into that solution and making the best of that opportunity that comes by your way I think that I think women demonstrate that in a large way but I think we also sometimes put constraints to ourselves saying no this is not something I should be doing but I think we have demonstrated in many ways in other aspects it's high time we brought that to our professional life as well. Yeah so that is probably my indirect question that is running the back of my mind when you impose certain constraints on yourself saying that

14:39probably either because of gender stereotypes or otherwise saying that is not something I would do or I can do is there a role for or your formula no for seeking out or getting help from mentors or no being in the right place at the right time yes yes absolutely brought in this beautiful mentors I think that's very important every time I did a role I took on a new role I'll take it up first year one will be the year of learning year two I will do it very well year three I will excel and then I say no I need to learn something new but in that year three I will have this conversation very open conversation with my current boss and I will tell him listen I want to do this next and I want to find a mentor you know who can prepare me to be going on to this level next and I have always had highly supportive managers who I continue to have very very lovely relationships even now who fueled my you know hunger for growth and I think we should also you know identify

15:43those mentors and put ourselves to those challenges right if you put yourself out to take on those challenges I think the world and the team and and the people around you will always be supportive and help you to get there and I always love those challenges and new learning and wanting to do something new was always I enjoyed a lot and I think my my organization and HP being that organization I always used to say this to all my customers there's not a single planet single company on this planet that's as good as HP you were starting with a tiny little you know storage reel that you used to you know storage unit that we used to sell up to a high performance computing solutions we had everything including a consumer group right in the middle of all of that so the flexibility that it offered for me and my hunger for growth was a mix I just tapped into a very small potential of all of that right so I lucked out from from from being a person working in HP but at the same time in our own scope of whatever we do I think the more we put ourselves out

16:43to take on new challenges the more we learn the more we grow and I see that in the small organization that I'm running right now I have my team members that put up their hands for someone in finance put up her hands saying I'd like to do operations right someone from HR said I'd love to do you know learning and development entire training of my marginalized women and training of internal people so her job was only recruitment and operations but those are you know very important ways to demonstrate the appetite for growth and I think it fuels your you know growth and in your career taking you ahead I just staying on this mentorship are there any tips of how to seek mentors or know what how do you where do you go look for mentors yeah so as we speak I still have two coaches that I work with I get coach so my learning doesn't stop and every time I come out of my coaching conversation I'm always thinking oh wow I I've learned something new and I'm going to

17:44try this in my next you know interaction with this person or in my next conversations with people so continuously you know wanting to learn something new is the first attribute for you in your sitting in front of the mentor and I think when you seek mentors always look for mentors that have done what you're aspiring to do so that there is correlatable learnings um and I I don't again try and say take it only from your vertical of experience but even if it is coming from a different industry if it matches your aspiration within your vertical or your industry take that right and go very well prepared when you're sitting in front of a mentor go with a set of questions and these mentors have gone past the path that you're aspiring to walk so they're only going to turn around and tell you what they're experienced and you as a as a person that wants to walk that path are far more aware of what you're going to be encountering as you you know progress in your journey in a very you know simple way it's not like a

18:49Google map which definitely tells you there's a traffic jam here take another route it's not as simple as that but your experience will be distinctly different from what your mentor is explaining but at the same time it opens you to the blindsidedness that you might have and with that knowledge and wisdom you're far more better prepared in your journey of where you want to go so choosing a mentor is very important um from the point of view of where you want to go and also preparing for each of those mentoring conversations is equally important um no mentor is going to spoon feed you saying I'm this is my journey he's listening right but they're going to only be responding to what you want to achieve in those conversations so I think that's where I think the whole mentor mentee conversations becomes very rich uh yeah staying on the same topic for a little longer because one more in the course uh see in an organization like hb which is a global organization which you said it's just thousands of people uh it's probably easy to find role models within the organization

19:53on going to mentors and so on uh but we'll delve into the in the startup part but before that I'm re-empting one question uh it'll start up you're kind of on your role yes right so how does this feature change well you're absolutely right finding role models and you know managers that you're in awe of is is very easy because hb has that ability to find the right talent to fit into their organizations and everyone is a gem of a person that you're working with but when you move to the startup world all of that is disappears it just disappears right so um that is when the network that you've built over the you know 2022 audios that had spent in the IT industry before I ran my own startup came into play I quickly went and took advisors for two three functions that I wanted and here's an interesting story on gender again so uh one of my colleagues from hb was my uh co-founder she was a finance come you know compliance lady and you know as as hb's business practices

20:58we are all compliance first and then business next right so that's our that's our you know our pedigree and that's how we are all born and brought up in hb so she was that ops and finance specialist so we together wanted to start this and uh for the tech development piece I wanted a solid developer and when we were going around asking for funding um I was told no you need to get techie who should be a guy because you're already two women in the team uh it didn't bring well with me at all so I consciously chose this chose this woman right there are many finance and compliance folks there so I consciously chose this woman I'm gonna consciously choose another tech lady to be my tech co-founder but I found that the business challenge that we were trying to solve it was assumed that it was tough for memento handle and it was important for a male to be a part of my equation but I kind of took to my values and said when when to the next investor mating introducing you to my lady co-founder who's my tech co-founder again didn't sit well with

21:59with the uh with the investors but I kind of didn't want to let go of my values and I had to dispense with my you know startup idea you know probably in a sense also because I stuck to my values but yes I think it's important when you move to the startup world to have the right kind of people advising you and that rich advice I got from the network that I built in hb and the customers that I in fact even today I have two of those customers continuing to wish me on my birthday there are many people in my family which forget my birthday but these people always wish me on my birthday so I cherish that a lot and these are people that have always been a part of your growth and will continue to support you and be by your side whatever you do and I think that kind of people's interest is what also is another important element for success in life that you cherish people ensure that you are always putting people first in whatever you do wonderful so from this if I may call it the comfort zone of being in a large organization having the opportunity to

23:05take on different responsibilities and enjoying what you are doing that came out pretty much the way you described it what was the attraction of the startup truth be told Shiv I think I said before I say I will put one Italy guy that was my line at least you know and my husband used at least you know something on your own is at least one at least shop so and then my husband was very supportive he said at least you leave the at least it won't go waste right so at least good but yeah that was the whole idea I mean you know in the 90s and in the early 2000s startup was not a great fancy in India right it was a global phenomena you were seeing all of these things happening across the world and India it was it in the mid you know to 2010 to 2020 I think is where the whole startup was you know really blossoming and growing very well from 2010 onwards up until now and to layer it to saying oh these are girls who are coming

24:05and running this startup was not an easy you know garden to walk into but what is life without those challenges without breaking those gender norms without challenging those things right so we said and my family is super supportive I think that's another important thing you should I want to you know express here always choose your partner very very consciously right you know the partner who will support what you want to do and does not have and and their own agenda to say hey I'm going to do this and you will do this right so fortunately you know I really lucked out in choosing a partner that was fully supportive of what I wanted to do with my life and while it is not a right statement to say that I have the freedom because all of us should have that freedom I had all the freedom and independence to do what I wanted to do with my life and my career so that's an important tip I want to leave for the women out there make that choice very very consciously because it shouldn't become another barrier for you even if you have the energy and the appetite that shouldn't be another unasked for barrier that should come by your way so here we were

25:09you know he also quit and he ran his own idea I also quit and I ran my own idea and yeah so I think it's important that when you have an idea do not let go of that give it some life give it some energy give it all that it takes but also be prudent beyond a point if you're draining your bank account and if you're not getting that right you know support from the marketplace be conscious of it you should not try you know you should not get drowned in that whole idea be aware of what is right for you and wait for that for another day right another chance will come by your life and have that optimism in life to say okay this didn't work and have that ability to let go like and that's an important thing as well it was my pet idea I mean the idea was very simple and today it is still not an idea that has come to life I wanted to aggregate paying just accommodation providers into a digital platform right it's all these PG buildings that were all around us and I want to bring that into a digital platform for parents to see the kind of properties that are there

26:14and not come here and see go in and out of buildings eight nine buildings in a day and then decide on which PG building their first time employee child is going to come right these are all a accommodation meant for first time job seekers that was what people trying to do and as we speak it is still not a digitized place right so probably the idea was still too early for its time and I still don't see that happening yet so it's important to let go and then say okay another day another time and always you know the earth will conspire to make it happen for you so I think that's an important thing that one should realize yeah so that brings me to how do you choose what space to work in yes there is one thing about yeah the idli could I or whatever but then on what basis do you pick yeah particularly you sit up all night and you're in the social space yes that's a very different space right yes yes yes but I would like to bring that continuity right so here I did this because I came as a person who came into Bangalore with my

27:17first job and I told my family that I will go figure right so nobody accompanied on my first trip to Bangalore my classmates that picked me up from the station and he took me home and aunty and uncle gave me my breakfast and we started walking around Malishwaram to look for a PG right and 15 years later my you know another cousin of ours who's coming from Bombay when she came to look for a place in Bangalore in 2010 or 2011 it was exactly the same thing that she did so I said how is it that something like this has not changed and in Bangalore is a tech capital and people have still not figured out a way to solve this problem and her parents were not able to figure out where their daughter is going to stay and that was a need I felt that we should be able to you know solve for ourselves so that was the origin of that startup idea that I had and at the same time it's not just for women or men right the situation is the same for men

28:17and women but parents don't worry much about where their son stays but parents worry a lot about where their daughter stays and they want to make sure it is said they want to make sure it's close to workplace they want to make sure it's close to shops pharmacies in case she's unwell and so on and so forth so now fast track and you know come to the work that I'm doing right now it's all about you know women having not having those opportunities right so I think somewhere I'm drawing that that parallel of how women are are not supported enough by a generic engine that is required to support and do certain things needs change needs correction right so that that said the work that I do is not just about women right so the work that I do right now in pollinate has got gender has got clean energy and has got poverty elevation associated along with it so the whole point is when you when you put two three elements to it and you see it work it it becomes completely magically

29:21right so that's where the element of a woman who's got no access to income if she sells clean energy products to communities that live off the grid no electricity no power and they have solar right now and by doing so if she's earning margins and she's earning income is a compelling you know reality and it feeds into my entrepreneurship that I always wanted to do now I'm creating micro entrepreneurs to the women that we work with so somewhere I'm seeing the dots all connecting and aligning a shift yeah so when in this space of reaching out to women who need support is probably as disorganized or probably even more than New York pg space so how do you find the deserving women or women who have the potential and support them yes so yes this is actually quite tough the whole origin story of pollinators also the original idea was to solve the energy poverty

30:22in these communities right these are communities that just just drown into darkness after sunset right around us in metro cities and in rural areas while India is very very tightly electrified come sunset the electrification that's required for irrigation is not as continuous after sunset and in the urban areas these are people that move from rural to urban in search of livelihoods and feed the labor requirements of the fast growing cities in India every minute as we speak 27 people move from rural to urban in search of livelihoods that is huge because these people are small farm holders are not even landowners and have no access to anything as income to manage food for themselves that they come and live in unspeakable conditions in blue tents around us so originally you know again tech comes into play we understand these communities through google maps and we were able to go there and serve them with solar lights

31:23and solar fans and solar torches over a period of time we've started working with other NGO partners that are working on women's initiatives children's initiatives in the rural areas if they are working on agree on farmers there is always a woman behind them if you're working with children there is the mother if you're looking with farmers there are female farmers there are wives of farmers thus we've been able to identify potential women from a pool of women that they bring to the to an orientation program we run a small psychometry to understand is this woman able to speak is this woman have the hunger to make something else out of her life a beautiful segue into the mentor conversation we had a few minutes ago these women have no mentors her mother didn't do anything different her sister didn't do anything different her aunts are not doing anything different so herself belief is almost zero so we have to really ask her what is it that you want to do different in life and they all turn around and say at least want my child to have a better life than me I want them to have access to education I want them to have better quality of life and live greater than me if that is a goal that she's defined for herself our job begins then we give

32:27her the entrepreneurship training entrepreneurship training is not some you know business canvas training that you need to read 10 books it starts with simple cash management understanding how to talk to customers describing a product and features and benefits and then managing inventory and managing outstanding very simple which any you know street vendor is capable of we tell these women and at this point I want also you know underlying the fact that the women that we work with are a level or two below the street vendors level or two below the cook or the maid that comes into our homes and why because all of these people have a paka house and they have access to water they can bathe they can can come and cook and clean for us these women have access to water once a week so they do not have and the women and the children and the girl children can't bathe during daytime and they find 3 AM 4 AM timelines to bathe in the you know in the dark so that nobody sees them one of the most important you know heartbreaking stories that I heard from one of our

33:32empowered women is she's made enough income through our program that she moved to a paka house and she said my daughter can now bathe whenever she want that really shook me I said this work if I'm doing it with thousands of women I have to take it to many many many thousands of women in the future because as basic as having a bath is not in their hands it's not in their right to have a bath when they want to so that's the kind of women that we work with just before we started the recording you also kind of indicated something about generationally how things like that yeah so I think you know well I described my own story of how I was not allowed to go to Bidspelani my grandmother was married at the age of 9 right and you know how just after puberty they are all married off and my mother was married when she was 20 right so I think but she studied and she was working contrasting against my grandmother

34:34not allowed to even pursue studies after she attained puberty she was married off but my mom got educated she was working in an organization and she still had to quit when she had us near my brother that was a social battle you have two kids your priority are your kids then you know my own barrier of not having gone you know far away into the northern part of the country but today my daughter is living in a different country is building a life of her own is working on the top edge of technology in FinTech and I see these four generations progress right comes not just by chance it comes with clear intent of how we put ourselves and how we define and take space for ourselves and how the immediate family and immediate society around us is shaping it for us so while I speak today to all women I think we should also not shy away from the fact that we've come a very long way from where we were decades ago and I truly wish these transformations happen much much faster in the coming decades and I think the shoots of

35:38all that is already there but that said it is each one's responsibility to take ownership of that and I'm not now talking just to the women I think it's a whole lot of responsibilities also fall on the men like I just mentioned about my own partner story we have to ensure that men are part of this conversation and have to become enablers in facilitating this we have a lot of forums and 90% of the mentors that I had were all men I consciously went and chose a female mentor early in my career but even at that point in time we did not have men who were mentors for us women who were mentors for us so I'm seeing that change today we have a lot of women mentors who are now shaping the lives of many more women but at the same time just because we have more women I think the conversation shouldn't stop amongst women I think we should bring in more men into the conversation and ensure that the next generations have less and less and less reason to

36:39speak about gender equality and it's already established. Even said okay the next one this probably a little more knifle saffical you can choose to answer a lot which is as say the next generations get more empowerment or have more opportunities and so on there is also this discussion on the aging population and then how it has become more nuclear families and the support and particularly you're asking this in the context of a women who throughout their lives have been supporting both what we generally call the work life or what I have responsibilities in multiple spheres so where do you yes you see some approach to addressing yes so this is where I see this you know I mean there is a reason why goddesses have more hands than gods right if you've seen right why do goddesses have more hands except you have one villain god

37:43who's got more heads and hands all the male gods have only a pair of hands but if you see the female goddesses as part of our mythology or culture it's by definition we are designed to do more right if we are designed to take on more than what we can you know chew that should not stop with your fundamental responsibility of just being a caregiver and women can do it because they have those extra hands they have that extra strength they have that ability use it in fact I was told this you know by a very dear friend of mine when I was working in Vipro you know during festivals she'll probably you know take an hour off and go early and she'll say why don't I have to make these sweet meats for this particular festival and she said I've chosen to take this occupation because I want to work but at the same time I won't shut my responsibility off having to do that and she said her husband will be back home and together they would do that resonated so well with me you take on these responsibilities and you're able to shine I challenge any man to do the same

38:48I think by DNA we are all designed to do all that we are required to do and we are designed to be the caregiver we are designed to be the family you know the center of the family and we are designed also to be successful outside of family and the other basic responsibilities that we have so I think women should take pride in it women should add more fuel to that energy that we have and you know try and that brings us to another important point where why I've even called the weaker gender we are certainly not the weaker gender when we give more output and more results right so I think there is this definition for weak coming from so I think there is so much that needs to be spoken off in that direction and I have not yet heard of anyone that is sharp their family responsibilities to be successful professionally right I think that ability to thrive doing both is demonstrated by women adequately and immensely

39:50there is a couple of questions which are my favorite questions with every guest which is more like in a career tips for two segments of our people you know those who are considering a career in 90 now with all this confusion and all these predictions that you keep hearing and the second normally I ask for people who may be facing what may be called as a mid career challenge or mid career confusion but in the case of women probably there are some more aspects particularly the career re-entry when they take a break and come back and so on yeah so you have any thoughts for them yeah so I think here again women with their ability to adapt you know by design we are the ones who walk into another family after getting married right why why don't the men come into another family because they're the reason is we are more adaptable by design we are more adaptable lean into that strength dig deep into that strength if you see AI coming and you know

40:54disrupting you I think women are far more better positioned to re-equip themselves by design right and by their ability to multitask ability to learn things new ability to configure themselves reconfigure themselves for the new realities I think women are better positioned so lean into that strength that you inherently have right and this thing about career break I I mean it's become a kind of a thing that is put stuck on women right because they are the they are the mothers they are creating a human and they need that time and energy to give for that new human whereas man is not required to do that so I think it should be looked at very differently to say she did something in that two years which a man cannot do and I think we need to write that story write that narrative strongly even if a man took that two years break what could he have done in that two years right whereas you've gone and created a human you've nurtured that human you've kind of

41:59led that human to be taken care of by someone and your returning so let's take pride in that two year break that only a woman can take and even if a man desires cannot do that right so and men should understand this and not stick it on a woman's face saying you took a two year break go take that break and tell me what you can do is what that woman should tell them right so let's not make this as a a thing that is happening but it is required to keep the world alive to that this world is not progressing so let's look at it as a nurturing face for that woman and then you know talk of it as something that has happened in her life and cherish it in our organization we celebrate a woman who comes back from her mad leaf I think it's it's a great way to welcome her to say hey here here is a place for you to come and thrive again and we give you all the time and space to balance this both okay so I have a bonus question yes go on no which is

43:02with so many hands all this ambidextrity and then handling so many juggling so many things and so on are there any personal practices that you have to stay grounded that you would like to share yes very nice question ship I think you know early on in my life you know my energy and enthusiasm was also tempered with a lot of what do I say energy that I was not utilizing right right let me put it that way but I think after learning certain you know practices of meditation I was able to channelize my energy in a much much much better fashion and today I think my morning discipline and my morning routine is is something that's taking me by and I think I have to credit my mother-in-law for this she gave me one tip she said whatever happens you prioritize your health so that was her you know fantastic tip to me you know a kind of a naughty me will say oh my god only if I'm healthy I can take care of her son but no that's just being naughty right

44:07I am fundamentally taking care of myself and that is very very important even if you are doing you know half the things that you're doing right now prioritizing one's self and one's health is non-negotiable because once that fabric is done if that fabric is neat and clean you can make anything with that fabric like I housed like I always started this conversation with if that fabric is crushed and old and weak and feeble there's nothing that one can do with that fabric so please prioritize your health do your exercises do your morning routines do what it takes to be mindful take those 20 minute meditative breaks it only energizes you to do what you want to do and you're a you're a much higher functioning person when you put that one hour for yourself in a day and my biggest tip for anyone that wants to manage their life and their health is to give that one hour to yourself you know 20 minutes of meditation and 40 minutes of exercise is

45:11non-negotiable on that wonderful note I think we are almost out of time this probably can continue much longer thanks a lot Sujata for sharing your story from your experience and how you've been able to manage all these different situations as well as creating an impact for all these undesirable that's really touching thank you Shiv in fact you know I derive a lot of inspiration from the women that I work with right you know if I go to their you know blue tent homes the warmth with which they welcome and when I say how are you they say I'm very fine but that contentment I see in their face sometimes I say no she shouldn't be so content she should aspire for more but the contentment that she shows in her face I think you know all of us have so much to learn from from the kind of work that we do and these women fuel me every single day with nothing they the kind of you know positivity they show the kind of energy they bring to the table to do

46:14what they have to do I think it's immense I want to you know conclude this conversation with one inspiring story of one of the women's that women that we work with I'll take a minute more with your permission ship so there was this lady who's been working with us for about three four years and we graduate these women about two to three years and so we called her as an independent woman entrepreneur and I asked invited her to share a story with my entire team and she says I'm not here because I'm earning more money than other women in in the group I am here because I have my two daughters who are educated and are continuing their studies I said what do you mean she said I am 32 and my daughter is in college my heart sank which means she's gotten married in her early teens and delivered in her early teens my heart sank the story doesn't stop there she says when she finished her school she wanted to become a nurse my mother-in-law came and

47:16gave me this ex amount of money and said here it is a money for you but not for a education for you to marry her off now she said no can I use this for her college fees the mother the mother-in-law grabbed that money back she went to her husband husband said you will follow my mother's thing you will not do what it takes she said no I will make sure that my daughter realizes her dream because I didn't have that option she goes and finds out how to become a nurse and they figure out that you have to write an entrance exam and the mother-in-law and the husband create chaos in the house of feeling illness and they made sure the child did not go to write that exam that day this woman my Suriyamuki as we call her my woman entrepreneur does not give up even them she goes to a nearby hospital which has a nursing college and says I want an admission for my daughter this is a 12 standard marks and she needs to become a nurse they said no it doesn't work that way she said I'll give you my kidney your hospital does it work that way at all please don't even talk that

48:18then someone saw this happening in the webcam and then the management inside came out and said I see your intent I'll give you a discount this is your discounted fee please I'm happy to enroll you as your daughter as a nurse she sums up the story by saying it's not the money man because the money the the hospital you know reduce the fees and there was someone sitting in the reception who funded that thing but the courage that I had to stand my ground is what pollinate taught me nothing else is you know everything else somebody else could have done but this is something that I gained as my internal courage so this story you know speaks volumes of what women have been deprived of and how much of work is required to be done at the most marginalized level and I think you know I I want to sum up this whole conversation to say let's create more women who are able to just speak for themselves and stand their ground.

49:20Absolutely wish you all the best in your dreams thank you wish you thank you so much thank you so much yeah I like that you said dream but be pragmatic yes absolutely wonderful thank you thank you so much we thank Siddharth for the music and Anita for promoting the software people's stories if you like this episode please subscribe on your favorite podcast line and spread the word in your network if you'd like to share your story contact us at podcasts at p.m. hyphen power consulting dot