0:00Welcome everybody to another episode of the Glorious Rocky Podcast. I'm your host Jumpt's Patrick. Joining me, fellow co-host, Alistair Kirsch, pull AKP welcome to, I think this is episode 145. How long did a road to glory run for? How long was that on the arcs? I feel like they may still have this beat in terms of number of episodes, but I haven't actually checked. Yeah, it's the longest running, longest running, official, unofficial, or glory DC podcast. There you go. Okay, well, if we surpass that number, and that was a very good episode, that was a very good podcast. I liked it. If we have surpassed that number and we can look it up, is it noteworthy enough for the Guinness Book of World Records to say, hey, we're the longest active running, oh, glory,

1:04Rugby DC podcast. I mean, one of one, right? Anyway, while AKP looks that up, maybe I'll reach out to James Dean, maybe he can verify. He's the data guy. Anyway, AKP, the biggest news that we have to talk about, and certainly a little bit of the surprising news, although we had a little bit of an inkling, a little bit of a heads up on this, but didn't want to spill anything. The biggest news AKP. I would say this is shocking because when we were talking about it, this was not, I don't think we discussed him, but obviously Connor Buckley is not coming back to old glory DC, or at least he's not going to play for old glory DC for the 2026 MLR season. Sounds like it was a little bit of a surprising news from management, the coaching staff, also according to our sources, maybe the doors left open for a potential return. I don't think it's the last one for here of Connor Buckley, in terms of on the playing field. So there's a lot going on here, AKP. Give me your initial thoughts

2:12when you first heard that Connor Buckley was not coming back to old glory for the upcoming season. Yeah, so it was surprising. We did get a little bit of a hint. There was some chatter like a day or two before that there were going to be some, that there was going to be a roster change, even though they had already announced that the full roster, but no one was willing to spill who it was, and then, and then, yeah, the news came out. And as far as I can tell from talking to multiple sources about this, it was basically a job opportunity came up, a career opportunity, and it was this sort of opportunity. He didn't feel like he could refuse, and so he took it, and it means not playing rugby professionally anymore. And that, I don't know, is definitely unfortunate. It's one of those things that to see a guy who, you know, really one of the most promising, basically the most

3:18promising young scrum half in the league, and, and, and for the US national team, and then decides to give up rugby, but that to a large extent, that's just the, the way things are in rugby right now in this country. I mean, MLR can't pay a competitive rate to a, you know, a big city proper job, and it's certainly not a career like that is. I mean, if MLR sticks around, I'm sure Connor Buckley could play until he was, was, you know, in his early to mid 30s quite easily, and that would give him less than 10 years of, of playing time, of, of a career left. And, you know, that's, that's, that's something, but it's, it's not obviously going to put food on the table for your, the rest of your life, and it's not like he's getting paid so much money that you can just retire after that. So it's, that, it's always going to be the case. And he's, he's far from the

4:18first player we've seen who's from all glory, who's, who's given up on the professional, on playing professional rugby to pursue a career, because that's, I mean, you got to do what, you got to do. At the same time, I think for the team, this was pretty last minute. I mean, they knew before they announced it. It's not like they announced it at the moment. They, they learned what was going on. But as far as I can tell, they only knew about a week ahead of time. And that's, that, you know, a week before the preseason camp starts and you're, you're starting scrum half just decides he's not playing that season. That's, that's pretty big news. Very big news. Very shocking news given that let's go back in that, you know, the last year, it was basically Ethan McVee and Connor Buckley, 1a1b. You, you know, you decide who's 1a and who's 1b.

5:21Both excellent scrum half, obviously, Ethan McVee. Cap, he goes up to New England because a spot freed up there, which I'm pulling out coming back. It seems like given the opportunity to be like the starter there. So, you know, basically down here in the DMV, meaning Connor Buckley was going to be the, the right it in pen. Scrum half with John Lafayette coming up behind him, Aiden Ridgeway ride, maybe seeing some minutes there, potentially a fly half. But with the departure of Buckley, and like you said, the ogori had something in the works, right? Because the very next day, they announced this replacement AKP. Let's cover the replacement real quickly here, right? Former Houston Saber Katz, scrum half Jay Renton, who's been in the league for a bit. I think he's from New Zealand former New Zealand like you 20 scrum half. Certainly a good enough to play at an MLR level. It's 27 years old. Let's talk, let's talk a little just quickly on Jay and

6:27then we'll go back to Connor here in a little bit and all the implications and all that stuff. But is this a one-to-one replacement here? Is there certain things that Jay can do that Connor? Can is this a net plus your thoughts on that? Yeah. So, as far as I can tell, and this is he's Jay Renton's not a player. I've paid particular attention to. He's not not someone that's jumped out to me. I knew his name before he was signed by us, but it's not like I'd ever really looked into him. So, all of this is sort of on paper. He seems to be basically a similar level of replacement to Connor Buckley. I mean, he's played a fair amount in in MLR. He's been a fixture of the NPC. So, that's the New Zealand's national provincial competition. They're sort of top level before you get super rugby. And he's sort of been a regular in that league for years.

7:35What he isn't though is up to the tier of the normal tier of forum player that the Simon Cross has been bringing in. You look at players because Simon's really had this strategy and philosophy. It seems of bringing in these forum players, these anchor players who are older, like they're almost all, I think they're all over 30. And they're all, you know, had top tier club experience overseas, so playing the top 14 or the the premier ship or super rugby. A lot of them have international experience playing for their, I mean, Kirby My Hill is capped Welsh international. Not all of them are because some of them are, you know, Perry Humphreys didn't break into the English national team, but I don't think that's really a mark against him. That's an incredibly high bar to reach. But all of these guys are coming in

8:37with massive amounts of really high level experience. And Jay Renton is sort of an exception to that. The only other exception to that would be Callie Martinez, but he's sort of a different, that's a different story because he was here before he counted as a forum player. And we drafted him in and like, that's a different story. But so there is a question of whether, and especially when you look at the fact that Jay Renton is a forum player, he's going to count against that forum player cap. You know, we don't just need him to be as good as a domestic player. We need him to be good enough to take a spot from a forum player. I mean, you think about the fact that like if it's you've got to take off, I don't know, Jordan Jackson hopes you can put Jay Renton on, like that, that becomes a much bigger deal in terms of the impact it's having on the team. So

9:39yeah, that's that's sort of my thinking on that whole situation. What how does he fit into how glory DC wants to play or what Simon Cross and the coaching staff wants out of the scrum half position? And from what I can tell, it seems to be a pretty good fit from that side of things like I don't think the coaching staff is unhappy with having to bring him in like they they seem to like the way he plays and they want like it seems like he'll do a good job on the team. The the real concern is just that he's he's not he doesn't have some huge wealth of experience to pass on to the domestic players who will be behind him and he doesn't have and he'll be taking up one of those forum players thoughts like that's I think he'll probably do reasonably well and like I don't have concerns about him as a player that he's going to not be good enough for the team or something like that like that. I think the coaches have that

10:41covered and I think they've made a as good a choice as they can make their given the the circumstances. Yeah, let's go back to the circumstances then. Right now we get it like Emelard's not at the level where they're providing contracts to players that you know we'll set them up for their idea right like you you could go to top 14 or the premiership or super rugby and probably at a minimum with that top line research really necessarily on this you probably earn and you know if you're a mid-tier player 100 grand maybe a little bit more in US dollars which you know is it would be would be fabulous for a major league rugby player to earn that and one season that's not happening here right given that there's been some tightening of the screws and just the money isn't there yet right and we know most of the top players who have played in this league have had to have have had a second job right have had to work outside of the MLR to pay rent and cover you know

11:42cost of living and all that stuff there's another players we know like you can go on LinkedIn and you can see jobs they've had while they're working in MLR what is interesting is that those guys have been able to have other careers and look I'm not faulting Connor at all for needing to think about life after rugby because it could end at any moment and you need to be able to support yourself and you can't wait 10 years and then turn you know in your mid 30s and decide oh I need a corporate job now right where you've lost a good five six seven years of being able to internships or career opportunities and experience and things like that so like I don't fault players I'd offer trying to do what's best for them about what I find interesting is that some of those players have been able to work it out with their employer right both employers like okay yeah I've got this nine five maybe remote thing and maybe the hours a little more flexible and I can do this so I can also play rugby it doesn't seem like that is the case here with Connor or maybe it's not necessarily that maybe it's Connor saying hey look if I want to jump into this career I need to like give it 100% otherwise

12:48I'm doing a disservice to both so I just wonder what happened there where he was there was the inability to do both and I'm not saying hey Connor if it's there you should do it because I got imagined that's very difficult to do so I can't imagine it's a very easy process for Connor to say I need to step away here let's add another layer to this a gay panigan this is pure speculation on our parts we've talked a little bit about this off camera let's bring it on to the recording here but how much do you think weighed into this uh Connor's being on the fringe you know I've been a part of the larger player pool for the US men's national team and not getting a cap at least yet do you think any of that factored into this at all like is the path not there and he's like well if that's not there then I need to start thinking about something else again pure speculation here but what do you think your opinion on any of that yeah I mean that I think that's that's a

13:51perspective that multiple people have brought up about whether is can we blame Scott Lawrence for this basically for for not bringing him in when he clearly was I mean there's not a lot more he could have done to make himself an obvious pick for the national team I mean short of going full like Antoine Tupon and just like being a god tier player there's he was he was one of he's one of he has been one of the most reliable best US eligible scrim halves both in the league and around the world for for a few years now and it just wasn't any as young he's up and coming he's got plenty of like running time as far as he needs this sort of he's it was like 25 26 and you you want that's exactly the sort of player you want to bring into the national team he's already performing well you can get him used to that level and he's

14:55going to play in the next he's going to be sort of young enough to play in the next couple of world cups easily and that's that's great that's that's exactly what you want but instead Scott Lawrence and I don't know why but he was it chose Ethan McVee over over Connor Buckley although you've even Ethan McVee really hasn't gotten that many opportunities and chosen guys like Michael Basca who really haven't done a whole lot recently are a lot older and it's it's always been somewhat baffling and I think if you're Connor Buckley and you look at the situation you know it's great being the starter at old glory but if that's the cap of what you can achieve if the next level and we know that Connor Buckley I mean we talked to him and he said in an interview that he really wanted to make the Eagles like that was a a clear goal for him and if that's just cut off because the the coach just doesn't seem interested for whatever reason just doesn't seem

16:00to to care that you're playing well and I can see how the BD motivating and you'd say well I'm capped out I'm at the top of where I can get in rugby right now I'm gonna I'm gonna go get a job and that's it's unfortunate though this is this is this is an interesting conversation right because some would say well you know someone say well there must be a reason why Connor Buckley hasn't earned it yet right maybe there was something in his play where the coaching staff out on this they want to say this is all Scott learned suppose that what I'm suggesting here we're just having conversation about what maybe going on here maybe maybe maybe he just isn't good enough at least according to son to be an international scrum half okay that may be the case fine I don't know the reasoning behind it but from a fans perspective and from some other coaches in the league who we've talked to a lot of them are wondering why hasn't it happened yet because it seems like he's been one of the young premier scrum halves in MLR has played certainly been good enough

17:03he competed with guys currently capped that from us we have a lot of questions because we're like what are we not seeing that others are seeing and okay I get it I'm not a high performance international coach right I totally get that but it seemed like others are wondering why hasn't it happened yet and then the coaching staff is probably given very specific reasons why I just wonder I guess to your point if that if that route is it closed meaning like hey man we like you you're a great player but it's not gonna happen man I'd get pretty discouraged pretty quickly and say well then okay if I mean like for real for real like is this it and if that's the case then okay I need to figure out something else to do and I don't know if that happened here and again I'm not trying to blame Scott Lawrence and USA men's Eagles for like the reason why Buckley's not playing but it just seems like from the outside a lot of folks are just wondering why it hadn't happened yet because it seems like he's on par with the scrum halves that have been capped and have played for the men's Eagles over the last couple of years I just don't understand

18:06I just don't understand yeah and to not even like invite him to the camps and give him a proper opportunity to show himself like to not even throw him in in a game that you know you're gonna lose anyway or you know you're gonna win anyway it's not hard to to find a cap for a guy and say okay this is your shot impress and even if you're skeptical there's no reason to take a guy who's playing at that level and not see whether he can make it like maybe he's not right for the national level maybe he's there is some limitation of his game that would prevent him from being successful at that level maybe they're maybe the Scott Lawrence and the coaching staff are right that with their choices but you don't know for sure until you give him a shot and there's plenty of guys throughout history you've been overlooked and then suddenly they get the opportunity and suddenly they impress and it's like well yeah we all knew this but I don't know and there's

19:06a number of players counterbucklies far from the only guy that that Scott Lawrence is seemingly overlooked but but that's a that's a whole not their conversation like this like this summer the men's Eagles are already qualified for rugby world cops certainly you want to start fine tuning things figure out your selection for 2027 but there's gonna be a match or two in there where we're playing a squad where it's like hey we could probably cap some players here and see what they have if if I'm counterbuckling I'm in this situation where I'm looking ahead to rugby world cup 2027 wanting to make the squad trying to show everyone like what I can do and they know what the schedule is like the coaches have told them we have an idea when we know the matches in some of the opponents there's a couple on there where I've circled like what you probably see some guys get capped here if you're being told like hey you're not part of the plans then yeah I guess okay I'm not part of the plans then I need to I need to find something to do with my career

20:10and and and move on like I just yeah I just don't know and as it's frustrating and I get it I don't we're not privy to those conversations and yeah we can ask questions I'm sure Bill Berg and I will try and talk to Scott Lawrence here soon and ask him what's the deal Connor he's maybe sick of asking being asked those questions but that's his job he's the head coach this is the these are normal questions I don't have a lot of sympathy for scholar and so I'll be honest but I think the the big thing here too for from an old glory perspective it's just the timing is so bad and particularly you know because this being snubbed by the national team that's nothing new that's nothing nothing about that has changed recently but you know why is you think about like why is Ethan McVee not playing for old glory it's because Connor Buckley was here and had clearly taken the starting job and Ethan

21:10wanted to be a starter somewhere and so now he's going to New England where he can be a starter and it's hard to blame him for that he wants he wants what he wants and old glory can give what it can give and so fair enough but if you just think about an alternate reality where Connor Buckley had left the team earlier or it had been clear that he might leave the team earlier is there a chance Ethan McVee would stick around and we'd have a we'd have a quality domestic scrum half because McVee was still a very good player is a very good player no one's I'm not no one's suggesting that he's maybe he's not a good player yeah we both so we're on the same page on that yeah it's it just because Connor Buckley was maybe slightly better and I managed to secure that that starting spotted old glory didn't mean that I would be perfectly happy with with Ethan McVee being the starter but now we don't get that opportunity and you you look at a guy like Jay Renton like I'm sure he'll be he'll be fine but I would have loved to see what the who the coaching staff could

22:16have brought in if they'd had a month two months to look for a guy rather than a week and that's the sort of thing where like the timing becomes just yeah just so bad yeah so much of the and other positions you could work around yeah well I wonder if some of it had to do with you know the ongoing negotiations between MLR and the MLRPA and just financially like maybe some of that held up but sounds like a contract was I mean he was announced that coming back so soon a contract had been signed it's unfortunate that there's not a domestic replacement you know that that's going to hurt on the match day 23 but yeah I was gonna say the last thing I was going to say here was that maybe this is an opportunity for Jonathan as yeah that's exactly what I was thinking so it's definitely an opportunity and for eight and Ridgeway I mean you could you could see both of them on

23:18the the roster and especially if if John Lefev can show that he's he's got it what it takes to be a decent stand-in it could be that it's more valuable to put him in and potentially have a slightly I have a less experience scrim half but be able to put in a different form player somewhere else and you look around the rest of the squad to even if we do roll with Jay Renton as the starting scrim half that means there's one more domestic spot open on the roster somewhere else and you know it goes from there's a good chance we'll see Colin Gross or Aiding King or we'll see John Powers or Harley Wheeler players like that players who you know or someone like Koi Koi no like and like maybe he takes on the starting hooker role because we just can't afford to put

24:21Kirby my hill in and that yeah yeah I will say be prepared be prepared for anything in MLR 2026 that like be prepared to see some guys maybe I shouldn't say out of position but be prepared for some wild combinations all across the lake because of the challenge of MLR 2026 given everything that it's going on AKP we know that MLR training camps have started you know if you follow all go already seen and then any of the other leagues and players on social you can see they're reported to camp so that's taking place it's good news right leagues happening yeah there's now there's not a last minute little you know wrench in the plans here a couple of things I want I want to note on that one is that it's just much small it's just much shorter preseason training camps far as I understand it right because first games we're basically what 30 days out from the

25:22start of the regular season right I even there's a the first game for all glory DC is April 3rd that Saturday April 3rd there's a there's a there's a match in March regular season then on official starts because of the quirkiness of the schedule there you got the Seattle Seamwell is going to South Africa to train but they are playing a like a tune up match before the season the end of March against local club there in the Seattle area we're not gonna I don't think we're gonna see a lot of preseason matches here so like week one and week two are gonna be very interesting and we know that week two we got to go up to to New England and play the free jacks there so buckle up strap up because it's gonna be like it's gonna hard it's gonna be hard to predict how teams are necessarily going to perform week one and two right and then by the time you get to week three it's only a 10 week regular season yeah it's there's not like a little ease into the season

26:27type situation here every single match table points have got to be on the taking like you go a week without getting any table points man you were really really set yourself back given how competitive things should be yeah it is gonna make it very hard to predict and I I mean I'm sure probably starting in a couple of weeks there's gonna be people putting out social media posts of who they think is gonna do well and who they think's gonna make the playoffs and stuff like that and it's just like this season especially I just it's so hard to say because Anthem looks to have done the right things to have made themselves competitive I'd be surprised if they didn't win a game this season and then everyone else it's like all these teams have have chopped and changed and added a bunch of great players to their roster with the consolidation of the teams in the league and so it's I really don't know who's going to I think everyone's gonna be good I

27:33don't know who's gonna be better than anyone else I didn't it's anyone's season this season I think well you mentioned you mentioned to Anthem so Anthem they kick off MLR week one against the California Legion that started in March 28th so that's this month California Legion now are the last team to announce a four roster this Seattle Sea wolves did that just the other day California's still kind of like dribbling it out they did announce that Joe Mano former Utah Warriors wing who was back in consideration for you know the player pool for men thank you the first time he put on a men's equals jersey I think he scored a hat trick against who was that I can't remember Romania maybe wasn't Romania any Belgium maybe it was Belgium any he's back in the mix he's back with the California or he's signed with the California Legion I'm sure at some point the Legion will announce their full roster but you said the mixing and matching it's it's going to be a

28:36stacked competition with very little room very little margin of error you know um particularly when you find out you're starting to scrum half it won't be with the team 2026 that certainly makes things a little more difficult AKP I guess like you're put on your head coaching cap for a second here like what do you want out of these next couple of weeks in training camp like what do you want to see what do you hope to get how do you approach like the first couple weeks of season yeah that's a good question I mean this season more than most we at least have a pretty clear idea of who the the first choice set every position is so it's not a like it's not really a surprise not really a question there's a clear sort of anchor player who's incredibly experienced in each role on the team and so the question isn't really what's the ideal starting lineup it's

29:37that you can't do your ideal starting lineup because of foreign player slots and so who are the the three foreign players that you replace with domestic players and so the key there is to figure out who who are those those best domestic players who are those guys who earn a promotion into the the starting ranks you got I mean it's and that that calculation is basically which domestic players are the least far back from their you know where's where's the impact to get the least going from one of these experienced foreign starters to someone else and so someone like Koi Koi Nelligan could be an option there yeah but it'll depend on yeah he might need to be an option and partly it's going to depend on whether a guy like Koi Koi is is fully fit partly it's going to depend on how these guys who are new to the team perform you know is maybe Rick Rose is playing at such a level where you can

30:42afford to take off for a partly I mean that seems crazy you're a partly great player and a great leader on the team but but if Rick Rose is at that level then maybe you maybe that's what you do if Max Schumacher is is killing it at fullback maybe you put Damien Hoyland on the side lines I mean you again Damien Hoyland fantastic player but you've got to find where those those areas are that you can swap in a domestic player and Jordan Jackson will not be able to play if John Powers has to jump in there like there's like I almost guarantee that you're not going to have Jason Emory and Jordan Jackson Hope because you just can't afford to throw two foreign player slots at the centers you would you would have to put then like an Owen Chi and John Rizzo on the wings and a Max Schumacher fly half you know because I gotta be given the domestic in the foreign player arrangement yeah so it's it's that's that I think there's two things that the

31:46training camps like really gonna do first of all it's gonna be a competition among those domestic players to prove that that they're in that top class of guys who the the sort of I don't want to call them the second the challenger tier of domestic players because obviously a guy like Cory Daniel he's just gonna be the start he's I don't think he's got a lot to prove to anyone anymore like we we know who he is same with like Ben Panasso and it guys like that but did that challenger tier player it's gonna be them competing with each other to show that they are the ones who deserve that shot in the lineup and then it's also gonna be getting everyone on the same page yet there's a lot of new additions this year it's it seems like it didn't I didn't think we were gonna have this much changed necessarily at the beginning but it's ended up being quite a lot of change you're gonna have to get you know Jay Renton and and John Lefeve and Adrian Ridgeway playing well and working well with

32:52Jason Robertson that that half back connection is important so you're gonna have to get them on the same page with each other you're gonna getting things like the attack working it it's so much about guys being where you expect them to be you know if you're if you're a center if you're Jordan Jackson Hope and you're in the lineup you have to know where your wings are gonna be where your your fullback is gonna be where these guys are going to be around you because every team does it a little bit different and you don't want to instinctively look and throw a pass and then turns out the guy wasn't there and that's the sort of thing we see a lot in the middle of the season or in the early season before teams have really gone and players have really gotten comfortable with each other and that's true defensively too so a lot of it is just gonna be going through these motions of like here's how this team plays and getting them all comfortable with each other with all of these new pieces we know that injuries with the smaller rosters injuries are gonna happen it's gonna expose

33:57depth or continuity issues with on the field roaster construction it's gonna be exposed to here if things aren't working and players coming on yeah we're really gonna see here we're really gonna get a good sense on if players are good or a good fit for some of these systems and it's gonna be it's gonna be a challenge some teams are gonna eat exposed and I you know I hate for injuries to happen but it's inevitable in a sport like rugby but you're gonna see matchups exploited I think a lot more you know as subs roll rolling and out that the teams I really do their homework that know their system best the players are comfortable sliding in and out right because you're gonna you're gonna the combinations are gonna could be could change every single week right I'd be highly very surprised if there's you know one backline that starts the same guys like all the way through right like I just don't think that's gonna happen you know obviously you want continuity as

34:59much as possible but the teams I can really adjust and make the tweaks and hopefully get lucky and stay a little healthy and they're the ones that I'm saying because again there's there's such a small margin of error this this season that I'm fascinated and it can't wait to see how this is gonna play out yeah me too I think it just want to be one of those four teams that make the playoffs and then from there anything can happen absolutely all right AKP final thoughts before we get out of here my final thought is that as far as I can tell there have only been in what 52 episodes of the the road to glory podcast counting the original version and then the rebooted version so we've long since passed the the road to glory in terms of episode count uh so we officially hold the unofficial Guinness Book of World Records for the longest or DC podcast yeah yeah I think we can find that on that note from my co-host Aleister Kirschpool

36:07I am Jeff it's Patrick you've been listening to the glorious rugby podcast we'll catch you back here next week