Ken Wilber on magic vs psychic

In the following excerpt Jeff asks Ken Wilber a question about magical thinking vs real psychic phenomena. Whether we’re talking about near-death experiences, precognitive dreams, telepathic communication, bizarre synchronicities…they all defy materialistic explanation, and yet they also seem to communicate deep truth and meaning. What are we to make of this when science says no, but we intuit that something more is going on here? Listen to this clip of Ken Wilber as he clarifies the difference between pre-rational magic and trans-rational subtle energies, and what he refers to as “the realm of transformation.”