Karoline Leavitt Is Getting Out. George Conway Thinks He Knows Why

0:00Hey, everybody. Welcome to Bullwork Takes. I am Andrew Egger joined by the inimitable George Conway. George, I don't think we've ever done a Bullwork video together. So we have a lot. Might seem, but we've got a good one today because Carolyn Levitt's last day as White House press secretary was yesterday. It's the end of an era at the White House. She's head and off to spend more time with her family is what she is telling us and also may be one of the rats fleeing the sinking ship. That's a little bit more speculative slash opinion on our part. But we figured we would do a bit of a wrap up here. Look back at some of the highlights, some of the low lights, some of the laughs, some of the tears exactly exactly. So George, before we get going on this any any any leading thoughts on on you know Carolyn and what she's been up to what she's up to next. She's a very very accomplished liar. Really good at it. I mean not. I don't like to say the people are good liars, but she has a bill and ability to just say things regardless of their

1:01truth without batting an eyelash and then repeating them even when challenged and and that is the absolute prerequisite for a spokesperson for Donald John Trump. Yeah. Yeah. I'm right there with you by the way. I feel like I have this extraordinary amount of weird like professional respect for her as a political actor not as a person really because you did that there's a certain amount of you have to leave a lot of of you know your soul on the on the cutting room floor in order to turn yourself into business. You have to not have one actually I think if you actually had one it would show every so often you would look uncomfortable. So and I think you wouldn't be able to do the job. So I think whatever soul extraction has occurred in her life it occurred well before this year and last year. Let's get right into it. Actually I should say one more thing before we get started with that. Let me just say to everybody out there go ahead and like the video go ahead and subscribe to the channel. That kind of stuff helps us out way more than you can

2:05can know we're all just sort of slaves to the algorithm around here and the algorithm loves us so much more when you subscribe gets us on other people's screens helps us to get the work out there enough of that George let's play Carolyn. I think it's insulting that you're trying to test my knowledge of economics and the the decisions that this president has made. I'm now regret giving a question to the Associated Press. Arguably no one in the media who loves manufacturing and pushing hoaxes more than Jeffrey Goldberg. So it is substantiated not just by that video and the physical evidence that everybody saw and displaying the Oval Office but also by another outlet in this room the Associated Press. So you should take it up with them if you believe the claim is unsubstantiated and that's a ridiculous line of questioning. So if there were peaceful protests on Saturday for the military parade President Trump would allow that. Of course the president supports peaceful protests what a stupid question. How did the White House decide that it is appropriate for Jared Kushner to be working on matters that involve guitar the UAE Saudi Arabia three countries that combined have given him more than $2.5 billion for his investment firm. I think it's frankly

3:12despicable that you're trying to suggest that it's inappropriate. This administration has done more with the President's presence. Let me just pause this for a minute. Okay and we've seen all the techniques in just this slide. I don't know how many minutes that was probably 45 seconds worth of clips but we've seen all of the techniques. One is just a flat out lie right I mean there was a discussion in there where she's saying that there's evidence of white I mean the context is stripped from this clip but she was claiming that there was evidence that they'll basically genocide in South Africa because there are a bunch of crosses in a picture and she just you know she just continues the lie. She's challenged by a reporter she just continues the lie. The other is to be be to change the subject. I am insulted that you're challenging my view on economics which was in response I think to a question from a reporter we said listen I've paid tariffs. Tariffs are paid by the importers not by China or the exporters and she you know she can't answer that question so she

4:18says I'm insulted that you are challenging my knowledge of economics and you know and then you know the undercurrent there is that you're being something of a misogynist because I'm this young woman and you're some grumpy old guy and then you know there's deflection there's instead of insulting the reporters talking over them being completely unresponsive and there's then I'll always flat out line and that's that's you repeat and rinse and her ability to do that is really I mean it is unmatched we haven't seen anybody quite do that as well as others but I don't think that's a good trait that's not saying I mean who would you who would you what job would you give her in the private sector who needs this type of person you think she could be a corporate PR flag there's no one's gonna believe no one's going to believe her this is the one job you could really get away with doing that because you're working for one guy and your your audience ultimately are people

5:23you know hate the press and don't hate the truth and are watching Fox News to for their own to validate their views that they don't ever want to see challenged and by shutting down the press and by repeating lies she serves that function and she also serves that function for Trump because Trump is I mean the truth of the matter is Trump was always a pathological liar he lies instrumentally to convince people of things that benefit him but now he's delusional he's psychotic he lives in his own world which is why the you know I've talked about this I think last week why you know the Natalie Harp thing bears such significance which is because he helps create and seal that fantasy world that he lives in where he can you know where he can take over the stray of hormones even though we don't actually have control over where we have one a war where mission accomplished like the mean he said yesterday and where he can where he can

6:25rename lakes it will and all of these things and and that's what she that's you know she performs that function for him and no one else in the world it's hard to see anyone else in the world who really needs that service it's the combination for me just just watching her throughout her tenure the thing that always was so striking to me was the combination of flexibility you know Donald Trump is never that's the thing about him he'll he'll lie all the time but his lies won't even stay straight right he'll be lying one way one day he will turn on a dime and and swing the lies in a different direction she was always able to stick right with him and also just a complete imperviousness right there was never really like crack in the armor she never was able to get knocked off of her game never really able to get get ruffled or flustered or or if she was kind of back into a corner like you were just saying there a very seamless quick pivot to I can't believe that you would go there you're really insulting me personally right now real party foul we're going to move on with this and again never really betraying any sense of like instability or

7:30or unbalanced if you remember like back in Trump's first term a lot of his press people did struggle with this sort of thing I mean they would get flustered they would get sort of personally angry they because you know it was plain that they were kind of having to work overtime in their head and in their soul to sort of like bring themself even into alignment with these various ridiculous things that the president was asking them to say it never really felt like a struggle for Carol on 11 and that was that made her very politically useful to the president what just just one other moment I'll pick out from that that montage was I believe it was leading up to the president's military parade last year that that that birthday parade that he threw for himself when he had had said something in the oval office like if any protesters come out they will be met with really heavy force they'll be met with heavy force and Carol and love it was asked about that and that was when she said of course the president supports people peaceful protests what a stupid question and moved on I mean like that's just such a a little crystal vignette of the way that she did this job for so long we should keep going with this clip when it comes to Jeffrey

8:32Epstein than any administration ever nobody in recent years has faced more bullets and more violence than president Trump this political violence stems from a systemic demonization of him and his supporters by commentators yes by elected members of the Democrat Party and even some in the media there you go we could have just gotten to the end we'll turns out we cut in too soon play the victim again we saw play the victim and then we saw you know transparency well yeah he was forced he was forced to disclose all the Epstein I mean it's just so completely ridiculous I mean there was another one I think I remember where she said that the Epstein scandal was a hoax and some reporter asked well what's a hoax about this we see the documents he goes well I'm not saying the documents are so I'm saying the whole narrative is a hoax and and you know it should just completely just goes steers off in in another direction when the hoax is the idea that Democrats care about crime is another thing yes yes yes yes yes yes it total totally you end up you start arguing over here about topic A

9:38and she just goes off into you know hyperspace and lands in some other universe and you know in order to go back you have to say no no you didn't answer my question and she is you are just absolutely I should not have asked you a question yeah next you have control of the mic you you you control the situation I have to say and I I'm gonna call Sarah afterwards and I need a sort of combat pay for sitting in that room from time to time as you do I don't know how I mean I would lose my mind sitting in there and I just wonder do reporters really think I know you're supposed to be asking the questions but do reporters really think those sessions are useful for anything because I've never thought they were useful for anything particularly in the Trump administrations because they're not they're not actually good faith forums in which to receive and exchange information I think well two two things first of all

10:39if you if you think I should deserve hazard pay for sitting in there you should see the way I actually am in there when I go which is barely ever in a seat at all but sort of like squashed in the aisle you know cheek by the side yeah yeah yeah yeah but but no it's a really good question I mean I think I think that for the most part the the utility of the briefing room is is to be able to have a human person up there that you can have this sort of back and forth interaction with where you can kick the tires on the administration's claims and you can kind of try to catch them out in in the weak points of the argument and the parts that they would like to gloss over or that they would just assume have people not pay attention to and again that's what she was so good at is just not ever showing a weak spot that that could be exploited by the weak spots the weak spot is the sort of the old Washington definition of a gaff which is if what if she accidentally came out there and told the truth someday then and that just isn't you know and as long as she's you do

11:39have a spokesperson who's not willing to do that I'm not sure but kicking the tires is a useful function other than to just sort of stub your toe and I think of it this in a historical context I was reading the final days which is the Woodward and Bernstein book about the last few few weeks of the Watergate scandal and and there was a lot in there one of the big sources in that book was was John Zeagler and there was a lot in there about the press office and about the you know and Nixon had a really was big big on public relations is is one of his senior aides H.R. Holliman was an advertising agency executive you know those people were actually were mad by the time that Nixon resigned the people in the press office except for Zeagler who was just sad and disappointed that they were lied to by the president and that they were sent out to repeat lies and

12:42ultimately lies that were uncovered lies about you know whether Nick why Nixon had sent the C.I.A. to tell the FBI to shut down the Watergate investigation and when Nixon knew about the coverup ultimately lies are what killed him and the big difference between then and now is the willingness of people to you know for political reasons to accept and repeat and to tolerate lies I mean the Republicans on the in the House and the Senate weren't willing to tolerate lies past a certain point they were willing to tolerate spin but when we became a parent that the president was lying as a soft they they they they left him in droves and then the people in the White House were mad because they were lied to they actually because they looked up to the president they expected higher they expected higher a better level of behavior from the president the president the highest office in the land that's all gone that is absolutely all gone and nobody nobody bats an eyelash when

13:51they just spout out demonstrable lies and that's the big difference in you know that that's why we can have a Caroline Levin that's why the best person for the job now is Scott Jennings who is a practice liar I don't think you I don't know that it'll be is I don't know it'll be interesting I hope he gets the job for him let's talk about this in just one second the question of who it might be next the one last thing I would say about Caroline again on on her way out the door you know end of an era like I've been saying to your to your point here people said early on people kind of scratched their heads they were like Trump has picked the youngest press secretary in history for this job that you know obviously she has not been around Washington nearly as long as most people who it would be this role is she gonna have command of this stuff is this gonna be a mistake I think for exactly the reasons you're talking about it ended up being a useful pick because this was a person who had spent her entire life in this sort of post-truth Trump era right where where where what it meant to be a Republican was to make certain moral and intellectual accommodations

14:55for this guy who is pathologically unable to tell truth from lies who's pathologically just narrative driven in everything that he says and to her that's just she didn't have to you know it's one of those you merely adopted all she's ever known it's all she's ever known yeah yeah that is a really good point Andrew that is a really good point air you know for those of us who lived in the era with actually truth mattered not you know not as much as sometimes you'd want but but at some point you just people would just stop listening to you when they they'd hold you and discuss and contempt if you if you lied to them too often and you'd feel guilty about that and there was shame you know she absolutely I mean you know what let's see let's see uh Donald Trump went down the escalators in 2015 11 years ago and so she was 16 this is all she's ever known you're absolutely right that is a really really good point um younger is better than that and um that's that's a very good point and it's a very sad point um yeah for our society yeah and for what's coming next but but so speaking of what's coming next let's now turn you were just mentioning there

15:59has been a lot of reporting you know a lot of names have been thrown around some more preposterous than others one name that does seem like it has has been getting a lot of real attention both in terms of speculation but also people in the actual decision making areas talking about him is Scott Jennings you know longtime political operatives CNN commentator uh one of the the sort of leading commentary voices I guess of the maggot right today you'd say can you just kind of talk a little bit about what he what he would would or wouldn't bring to the table I mean I I've seen some people throw cold water on the idea that he would get picked ironically perhaps because he's too close to Mitch McConnell for Donald Trump's taste which would be a pretty fun reason for him not to get it nothing about his actual you know vices or behavior or anything like that but uh but just talk us through the the possible future of Scott Jennings white house press secretary well I think he'd be in some ways perfect for the job he's not of that same generation as Caroline I mean he's a bit older so he he knows he lived in an era where people actually told the truth from time to time

17:02and I think that maybe why part of that's part of the reason why some people in mega don't like him I mean he actually condemned the violence on January 6th and was critical of President Trump for stirring that up and that's a that's unforgivable to some people and that's that's part of the reason why he's being opposed on the other hand he is a pro he will just gaslight you death okay he has he has signed glommed right on to the Caroline Levitt school of just you know you lie you change you deflect you you engage in what about is him and make false equivalences and you insult and then you always go back to lie and he he that's what he does I mean I I it's just what has always amazed me is that CNN has paid him for so long to lie to its viewers I actually said that once during the 2024 what in 2024 I said that one morning on on KC Huntshow I have to

18:07say I mean look I mean you know Scott's lying and that's the problem with the Republican party it is continually addicted to what am I what am I what am I lying you're lying you're lying you're lying Scott you're lying about the law you're lying about what the jury was charged to find they don't have to find it on the lying crime they had to find the intent to cover up and underlying crime I don't think there's enough of that on you know when these people are gaslighting us we need to set start saying that this is a lie that's a lie and I know reporters are too polite in the in the briefing room to do that but it really would you know it's a fact so I but go back to to to Scott Jennings yeah he he meets the criteria of being a shameless liar I mean he just says things he will say things that are just absolutely untrue I think where he might not be as effective as Caroline Levin is I think there's a there's a gender issue here you can't play the victim of

19:12you know like 10 like oh you're being misogynistic because you're picking on poor old poor old 27 year old blonde me and there was one clip I was looking at this morning where Caroline Levin was being asked whether Stephen Miller would apologize to the to the family of Alex Prety. Stephen Miller's comments will Stephen Miller be apologizing to the family of Alex Prety for calling him quotes an assassin who tried to murder federal agents despite the fact that as you say this is still under investigation look again this incident remains under investigation and nobody here at the White House including the president of the United States wants to see Americans hurt or killed and losing their lives in American seats at streets and we mourn for the parents as a mother myself of course I cannot imagine the loss of life especially losing one's child in that same empathy from the president goes for the parents of angel families parents of victims of illegal alien

20:18crime across our country as well and that's exactly why the president continues to be wholeheartedly committed to deporting the worst of the worst criminals from our country but she actually did a good job of the empathic for you know the fake empath coming to say the Donald Trump has empathy for anything anyone or anything is is gaslighting of the highest order but she did you know her being a young woman gave her an advantage there being able to pull that off so she has an advantage I think over over Scott Jennings in that regard but Jennings is a great gas lighter and he'd be perfect for the job and and I think CNN would be better off if he got went to his real job which is the real job that he's suited for which is to lie in the half of a liar yeah yeah I actually I do think that Levit had and probably I mean it still has one advantage over Jennings that is even beyond just what you've laid out that's just the the the the age and gender thing I mean obviously she has

21:20she has used that to great effect but but I also think that her ability to stay unperturbed and unflavable is not something that Jennings is nearly as good at doing I mean I'm sure you've seen a billion times like I have that clip where who was he was talking to Adam Mochler somebody some Gen Z Democrat on on Abby Phillips show where he he just like completely loses his composure and is is swearing at this like 25 year old kid who is who's going after his position on the Iran war I was only a few years old while you were in the administration defending prior endless wars now this war is failing I mean it's as endless to you okay you said it was because it's six weeks you have the attention of a net I debated you on TV four to six weeks ago and you said we were weeks away from it now you're making condescending remarks because you can't defend the fact that this war is not going your way wait one more time not going one political session you know that I mean one political session I'm not gonna have this guy everybody everybody hang tight okay that is the sort of thing that Carolyn Levit has like never done she has you can't lose your

22:24temper but you can engage in fake indignation yeah yeah and and that's that she has done the indignation thing she's done that I can't believe you'd say that I'm really I'm really insulted that you would say that but even that has always been controlled from her she's never kind of like lost her cool up there I mean I think that that might be a thing that that you know it would be easier to knock Scott Jennings into that sort of classic Sean Spicer type crash out at the at the White House podium then it has ever been for for Carolyn Levit which would be not to the president's benefit I think it would be a real detriment on the job which is interesting because it would be more like the president's right responses to things I mean he you know Trump does get angry um and I I'd love to see Stephen Chung up there that would be great that would be just that would be highly entertaining he would be you would just you know call people fuck face and whatever it would be just he would he would that would be interesting he's amazing one long one long career long crash out against the media yes any other names we should be paying attention to here I

23:24you know I really don't know I mean I it's going to be hard to replace her I mean everyone everyone I mean we saw as you mentioned in the first term there were different people who had their different strengths I mean you there was Sarah Huckabee Sanders who she's not all that bright and she was she could get flustered um and she did have there were inclinations of conscience there every so often which is I think why she got flustered then you had Stephanie Grisham who was actually a good person deep down and and she was spotted up never to stand up there because she I think she knew she wasn't capable of of lying to that extent I don't know who else who else do we who can't I can't remember high-prouds of Kaylee Mackney she was the closest I think one she was the she may have been the model for this one for proto carol and yeah the proto carol but I don't know who else who else is he's gonna it's gonna be hard and it's going to be

24:29a baptism of fire for whoever it is because nobody nobody nobody there's nobody else out there who has been doing this to the extent that she I mean she did she did most of the breathing right she really wasn't really a second there wasn't really a number two who would fill in every so often JD JD bands would show up everyone's in a blue moon and do the pretty terrible yeah well vice presidents have nothing else to do um George you are called on if you were called on would you serve trump or generally as a press secretary I just meant yeah if you if you got the phone call tomorrow of but I guess yeah generally it's an interesting question too I would say you know I'd say like you know that's an inch I really would like to see more of the Epstein files I don't think that goal I don't think I'd last more than like five minutes yeah I don't know I have to say I mean one of the things the one of the reasons why I wouldn't wish that job on anybody right because it's not it's it's not a win-win situation and it's unless you are willing

25:34to act actual absolutely sell your soul absolutely and if you're unless you're absolutely capable of of remorseless consciousless lying and deflection you know that you will fail at that job as far as trump is concerned and I gather he's not a pleasant person to work for these days I mean I've seen some reporting in the last few days about how he's just screaming at everyone as a reality crushes his delusions around him and so I don't I wouldn't wish that job on anybody the list of Scott Jennings I would absolutely wish that yeah well we we should all be so lucky as to as to move into the Scott Jennings led future all right I think I think we can leave it there thank you George for coming on to talk about the tenure of Carolyn Levit 2025 to 2026 thanks for your service Carolyn you were actually pretty good at this job as we have discussed and and we

26:35hope the president will be worse off for no longer having you thanks to everybody out there for watching and for subscribing to the feed and we will see you all next time