Jayson Tatum BACK! What Should We Expect From His Return To Boston Celtics?

0:00Now in the Lockdown Celtics podcast, more Jason Tatum Talk, he's back. What can we realistically expect from him when he returns? Lockdown Celtics, Potom, but a winner, baby. And they're welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics podcast right here in the Lockdown podcast. Now, record as your team. Every day your team is the Boston Celtics. I talk about them Monday through Friday, bonus podcast on the weekends. I think there's probably a reason for me to do a bonus podcast after the Friday night game against Dallas. Plus, there's bonus podcasts all throughout the week. So check that out. I have a bonus podcast on Jason Tatum. If you miss that, just my initial thoughts, but so much more to get into here. So we're going to do that. Now my today's show is brought to you by Fandall. Fandall is giving away a turn, giving you a way to turn that energy into a bigger potential win with a college basketball, parley, profit boost.

1:00Head to fandall.com to get started. It's fandall.com fandall play your game. Did I introduce myself yet? I'm John Corales, beat writer for Celtics on SI, all that stuff. I've been doing this job for a long time. That's all you need to know. I'm doing today's show with Tom Westerholm, everybody. What up? Thank you. Thank you. I will imagine that Jason Tatum's reception tomorrow will be more enthusiastic, no, you know what? Less enthusiastic than my reception to the lockdown Celtics. Show here. I think. Okay. Cool. All right. Hey, what's your pick? All right, let's go. I think so, I don't think you start Jason Tatum. I don't think you start Jason Tatum. Yeah. Yeah. I think he comes off the bench, which means we're going to get the Jason Tatum checking in moment of like, you know,

2:06Eddie Paladino and, you know, checking in Jason Tatum, like he's going to be like, ah, as soon as he gets up, you're going to, well, the first thing you're going to see is two dozen videos on Twitter from every Celtics writer, every NBA writer there. Well, we're coming to Jason Tatum checking in. Listen to this all Asian. Um, yeah, I'm going to tell you right in advance. It's going to be a loud ovation. It's going to be a standing ovation. So, yeah, it don't be surprised. Uh, so that's the first thing that's going to happen there. But it's, it's going to be fun. It's good to have them back more than anything. My first reaction is, you know, good for Jason. Like, good for Jason, I'm just happy to see a guy put in the work and make it back and have like this cool story and have this, this moment, this season and, and to do it in 10 months.

3:10I think, I think he, he's accomplishing everything he wants to accomplish and it's going to be, it's, it's a good moment for him, for the team, for, for Boston. So I guess, I guess my first reaction is, good for you, buddy. Good for you. Yeah, I think you should tell him that. I think, I think, you know, when you, when you sit out and you call for the microphone and self-expr gives you the microphone, I think your first message should be, hey, Jason, I just want to say good for you, buddy. Like, I think you, buddy, you did it. Yeah, you did it. That should be, so, all right, so my first question, let's formulate my first question. Let's, let's say, so, so, good for you, huh? Are you, are you happy? Are you happy that you did this? Yeah, I think that would go over really well. I think that's a winner. Jason Tatum, are you happy to be playing basketball again?

4:13Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, I, I to your point, right? It's, it's been a weird stretch because there has been, right, when, when, when Tatum went down with his injury and everything felt so apocalyptic for the Celtics, because you knew that they were going to be trading guys away, right? You knew that players were going to be gone in the off season anyway. Last season felt like, to some extent, you knew there was going to be a retooling and it felt like kind of a last stand for a certain group of players. And it was a bummer because it wasn't anybody, you know, it wasn't anybody in the organization's fault that it was a last stand. It was just the CBA worked out the way the CBA worked out. And so it, yeah, I really had this kind of, kind of mini last dance aura to it. Yeah. And then Tatum goes down and it's like, well, this is, wow, this is, yeah, that is, that is, that is a, just a very sad trombone kind of way to end the Boston Celtics 20, 24, 25

5:17season. And I think the thing that's wild now is it's just like, all this time later, it, one, it doesn't even feel like it's been that long, it feels simultaneously like a long time and it doesn't feel like it's been that long at the same time. Like it's like, wow, Jason Tatum is back already. And in the interim, so much good Celtic stuff has happened. They have been, if, if people liked the Celtics more around the NBA and in NBA circles, this would be easily the feel good story of the season. They would be like, you know, I get why fans might not feel that way. Right. Right. Well, if this was any other, if this was a different franchise, this would be like the feel good story of the season. And the reaction to Tyree's Halibur in coming back is going to be a little bit more feel good. I think. Yeah. It's going to be a little bit more like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's going to be real good for him. It is. And there's going to be a lot less of like, well, like a lot of

6:18this, like, you know, Carmelo Anthony concern trolling about like, oh, he's got to, somebody's got to sacrifice like, like, okay, dude. Thank you. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, genuinely, right? Good for Jason Tatum. It's, this is going to be great for the Celtics. But I'm, it's, it's going to be fascinating, man. Like, this team is, this team is rolling. And this is going to be a really interesting stretch. I'm, I'm fascinated to see how it works out. Yeah. I mean, think about like how, how that, um, how that, you, how that season ended. The questions, like we knew, man, Porzingis is probably gone. Holiday is probably gone. But there was even some question about is Jalen? Jalen was on the table. Yeah, Jalen gone. Like, is this the time I should, I should clarify. Jalen was on the table in the way people were talking. Not right. The Celtics were never going to do it.

7:20But there was, you know, at the time, a natural kind of talking point became, well, if Jason's out in Jalen is, you know, these 29 is, is, is this the time to maximize what you get? Bottom out, you get AJ, Dibanza, and you get like all of these picks and you stock up and you just come back with Jason Tatum and Derek White and whatever else you get and whoever else you get from the, the draft, at that point, we didn't know who will Gonzalez is a future star. So, but the, he just, you didn't know, like they were question marks. He just slide that in there. He didn't know what, so, so you had to explore all of the possibilities. All everything was on the table. So for it to be here 10 months later, almost exactly. The surgery was on May 13th.

8:21For it to be here 10 months later with the Celtics in the two seed and Jalen in the MVP conversation and Ugo Gonzalez is a budding superstar. And you get Namiish Keta as the opportunity that these guys got because of everything, you know, I'm a big believer in like the worst thing that happens can sometimes be the best thing that could happen and vice versa. Like you, you, the best thing that could happen, you're like, well, wait a second, there's a downside to this and never want anybody to get hurt. But it happened. And so because it happened, you think, okay, well, what's the side effect of this? They traded away everybody and they gave these guys opportunities and all of a sudden, a bunch of guys performed at a level that no one expected. And so now Jason Tieden's coming back to this incredibly positive situation.

9:25Almost born out of the negativity of the whole situation, which is, you know, a nice silver lining to something that we obviously wish never happened. But after it happened to have this be the result, it's kind of amazing. Yeah. No, it really is. And and it's and it's wild to look back, you know, I mean, like it's wild. I know, I know we've kind of done this little retrospective a few times, but it is still really wild to acknowledge and look back at how at the beginning of the season, we said, here are the things that the Celtics would need for this season to be a success. They would need X, Y, and Z and they have shot so far past all of those things. Like it's just eclipsed, it's, it's stupid. How far they've gone past all of those things that we were like, hey, this season would be a win if, right? So I mean, you know, and I mean, it's and it's interesting to look at it from from that perspective to that you just laid out, right?

10:28Of like the best thing that could happen can also be the worst thing. And it's like, I mean, I don't know. It's hopefully, hopefully the best thing happening of Cata being awesome and Shireman working out and Hugo Gonzalez being a future star doesn't now become the worst thing now that Tatem is back and it just throws a monkey wrench and everything like, I don't know, I don't think that's not going to, I'm not saying that's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen. But yeah, Tom Western, oh, yeah, oh, my gosh. Okay, Steven A, Western home, that's me. All right, let's get to the game. We're going to get to the game tomorrow. What can we expect? How should this go? All of that stuff is next. Today's show is brought to you by Fandool. College basketball is nonstop big games, tight spreads, momentum swings, every single night from early tip offs, the late night, west coast shootouts.

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12:30Thank you for making locked on Celtics. Your first listener day want to invite you to join the every day or club. It's at locked on Celtics dot supercast.com locked on Celtics dot supercast.com. You get ad free audio for five bucks a month or 50 bucks for the year. Compatible with all major podcasting apps. You can also get access toward discord server, which is a live chat in game for Celtics and NBA fans. So check it out locked on Celtics dot supercast.com. So Tom, the Celtics will. I'm assuming that we didn't do all of this just for Jason to back out at the last second. How do you think? How do you think they didn't date him ruled out for tomorrow on the on the on the imagine what have been holding you imagine that would be absolutely. Just we did all of this. He's questionable. I mean, he is questionable. There's no he didn't say he's in. Yeah, near the ones that are making the leap.

13:30So it's on us. Well, um, Tom's is the one who's making the leap. We're just back back in off him. But yeah, that's right. Blame shoms always blame shops always blame shoms. What's your plan for Jason Tatum in game one? Yeah, I think you nailed it. I think it is. I mean, obviously, I think there is going to be obviously there's going to be like a very strict minutes limit. And I really think that it is going to be like 15 minutes, right? Like I don't this is not a ever coming back to the NBA is is really hard, right? NBA basketball is highly taxing, highly competitive, highly physical, all that stuff. And you know, Tatum needs to kind of work himself back in. My expectation for him would be that he will really struggle at first. And that's okay. That's literally all part of the process, right? That is just a part of the part of the thing you have to go through when you come

14:32back from a massive, you know, career altering injury like the one he had. So I think, you know, like a real kind of limited stint, lots of, lots of the TD Garden doing your post game question of like, you did it, buddy. Good job. I'll give him that little bit of a boost. Like, yeah, you know what? It feels good to be back out there. Feels good to kind of hear TD Garden go crazy when they see you out there. Like a lot of that kind of stuff. I don't think tomorrow is actually like tomorrow is in no way, I think, about how Jason Tatum performs on the court. I think tomorrow is about him being on the court, getting that little first taste and getting, um, yeah, just, just kind of starting to get his wind back, I think more than anything. Yeah. And I'll take it a step further. You need him to suck. You need him to go out there and struggle because that's the, that's part of the process, right? And I think two minutes into his first stint, you'll see him hand full of shorts,

15:40just hunched over like, oh my God, this is whoo, you know, turning to like Derek White like me one. I'm so so I should. Yeah, coach, um, Baylor gets your butt back in here, buddy. Uh, but you need him to go through that. That's what this is. This is the re acclimation. This is the ramp up. This is, you've done all you can do in scrimmages. It is now impossible to get into NBA shape with more practice scrimmaging. Right. I don't care who you are. There's no amount of practice at no level. I don't care how hard you actually practice. There's nothing that compares to a game. And so you, you got to take it to that next level. So if Tatum is at 80% of Jason Tatum,

16:43the next 20% only comes with playing these games, getting the wind just knocked out of you, feeling the lungs burn, feeling the legs get heavy, wondering, oh my God, when's the last time I felt like this? I said in my last podcast, the bonus podcast, I wouldn't be surprised if he says something along the lines of, yeah, I haven't felt this tired since high school. You know, like some old like they used to make us run and this is how tired I feel because because of all of this. So that's this is why I say bring them off the bench. People are saying, no, he's a starter. You started him like, yeah, of course. Of course he's a starter. That's not what the mentally he's going to start. Like that's not. I'm not saying you bench Jason Tatum. You have it. It's like when I was saying, Hugo and Zalas should go play some games in the G league. Like you're not demoting him to the G league. I'm like, just go play 36 minutes in a game.

17:45Play five games that, you know, go go spread your wings. Go run up and down the floor. Like, yeah, you got to come off the bench. I'm going to work. Hugo Gonzalez. I was going to say it isn't for us. If I'm much Hugo is getting into this. I'm every segment for the rest of the season is going to be some mention of. I just want to make I just I am self aware. I'm aware of what I'm doing. You need Tatum because Tatum and Hugo are right there at that same level. You need Tatum to go and. Hugo Gonzalez's floor is Jason Tatum. You know, Michael Jordan. No, you have you have to go out there and go through it. As a off the bench. Number one, you just don't want to disrupt the starters. Yeah. You're going to have time to play with those guys.

18:48Just my ideal situation. He comes in at the TV timeout for you know, the last TV TV timeout of the first quarter. So that's like two and change. So two three minutes of the first quarter. Then you play three minutes or so. And quarter break guaranteed timeout. Get down. Everybody comes over. Jason, how you doing? You feeling okay? Great. Okay. Get back out there. You play three or four more minutes to the next TV timeout. Guaranteed break. Come out. Sit. Every come over. Take them to the back. I don't care. You don't have to sit in the back. Go through everything. If you need to take an image of something, take it. All it. Whatever. Then half time. Get ready. If you need to take a shower, if you need to, come back out there. And in the third and fourth quarter, you do the same thing. And that's it. That's 14, 15, 16 minutes of basketball.

19:50And you do that for the first couple of games. Probably miss the Cleveland game. He's going to miss games. And then you, you just build up. So if it's 16 minutes of basketball against Dallas, then it's 18 minutes against San Antonio. And then maybe you miss the OKC game. Maybe you play the OKC game and you try whatever it is. Definitely not back to backs, but just play it by ear and and let him go through the soreness and then build it back up. And this is the whole process of ramping up. That's what it is. So that's what they should do. That's my plan for Jason. Which. I know Brad Stevens is listening. So I hope you took all those notes. Correct. Hopefully. I'll listen. Hopefully the people in charge of his rehab are listening. Because we are doctors on this podcast. Yeah. We're always saying that. Yeah. No, I think. I think just to add to your point, the only thing I would add is I think it's.

20:51It's really important as he's getting his win back to also get those first few tweaks where you where you take a step that felt that would have that would have been really risky six months ago. Right. Get those get those steps that are now safe. That those are those are now safe steps. Like if he's coming back, he's ready to come back. And that means that like those steps don't feel right yet. You know, like. Yeah. Have that feeling of like, oh man, I don't want to, you know, you have to take him. You know, you just you literally have to take those steps. And honestly, that feeling might not go away for him this year. Like that might be something that doesn't resolve itself until. You know, he has he has a half an NBA season or, you know, a quarter of an NBA season under his belt and a summer and a training camp. And you know, it might not feel right until next year. But but that's again, that's all part of the ramp up process. That's all part of this really, really important process that he's currently undergoing.

21:51So yeah, I think wind and also just kind of. Taking some of those risky steps again. Yeah. Let's let's try to project forward when we come back. Well, what can Jason Tatum be? And then, you know, almost Google Gonzalez, something might say, let's not push it. Did that one come back? Today's show is brought to you by five hour energy. It's time for the five hour energy flavor draft and with 18 different flavors to choose from, including new options like confetti craze, fruity rainbow, cotton candy. There's something for everybody to board a set. The flavors are ready. And I've got my number one pick for the five hour energy flavor draft. Now, there's different flavors. There's different kinds of things. If you've got a heavy sweet tooth, then you want maybe something like cotton candy, which is just pure sweetness from start to finish. Sweet tooth fix, but without any sugar guilt. And that's the number one thing with all of these flavors. When I mentioned confetti craze, when I mentioned.

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24:58Need to hire. This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. Thanks for making locked on Celtics your first listen every day. Go check out locked on NBA locked on NBA game night. They're covering all the big stories. Jason Tatum's a big story. So that's on locked on NBA game night is seven days a week. All the games covered on game night. I host a show on Wednesdays. So check it out. Keep up with the league with locked on NBA. All right. Let's get back to the let's wrap up the Jason Tatum is back conversation. Let's spin it forward, Tom. I'm excited for. First of all, I'm excited that he's going to be able to knock off all the rust and go through all this stuff and kind of figure out who he is and what he's going to be. Eventually, I expect him to start eventually expecting to play and, you know, be a meaningful part of all of this. But I do question realistically what he's going to be this year.

25:59Yeah. I don't think he's going to be 100% Jason Tatum until the beginning of next season, which is fine. Like no one should is 80% of Jason Tatum good enough to change this this teams for it. Like I'll put it this way. What does 80% of Jason Tatum do for this team? I mean, it's a really tough question because 80% of Jason Tatum, what are we, what percent? What is in the percent that we're taking out? Right. And I, I mean, I think the answer is like, you know, some athleticism, right? Some level of like knowledge of his own body, right? You know, that, that, that, like knowing how to operate within the physical gifts that he has, right? But then also the, but, but also what's been taken from him that he has to try to build back.

27:02Like that's a really complex. Yeah. Situation for an athlete, you know, especially an athlete as, as elite as Jason Tatum is. So, you know, I think to me, the biggest question is, okay. What, I think I honestly, I'm most interested in what he can give the Celtics. Um, I know this sounds crazy to say about, like, I, I, I hesitate to say it because I don't want to be accused of like downplaying Jason Tatum. I have not downplaying Jason Tatum going forward. But this year, I'm curious what he can do on the defensive end, right? I'm sure notes fair. Why would that downplay? That's fair. Well, because I'm most interested in what his defense, what he can bring defensively and rebounding it makes it sound like I'm calling him a role player. Um, but. Well, he ain't coming back to being a role player, doc. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I, I'm. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's, I think, I think it kind of depends on what. On, on how he adjusts to all of that because, I mean, the Celtics, I think are currently, I mean, we talked about this the other day.

28:06I, I, you know, as long as they don't meet the hornets in the playoffs, I think that the Celtics team is kind of a dark horse contender as currently constructed. And I am, you know, what can Tatum bring to that? Well, I mean, listen, Jason Tatum coming back to any team improves it. Um, but this team has been very finely tuned. And now you are, you know, putting a guy who's trying to figure himself out back into that. I do think it's, I do think that when I see people say like, well, Jalen and Jason have always figured it out before. I think that's true for next year. I do think that there's a fair question to be asked about what, what does it look like this year? This is a really good team that is going to be trying to reintegrate a really hot guy who's previously been really high usage and, you know, deservedly so, right? Should be extremely high usage. But this season, I think it is going to be really interesting to, you know, and I'm using interesting as a euphemism for, you know, potentially challenging to figure out how this all comes together again.

29:11I don't think it's out of bounds to say for, for the next two months, you got to figure some stuff out. You know, like that's, you're right. Next year is next year and that they will be fine next year. But for the next, they'll probably be really dang good next year. Right. But for the next two months, yeah, that's going to be a challenge because he's coming back. You know, he hasn't played for 10 months. That's going to be a process that's not going to happen overnight. So, yes, they're going to have to figure some stuff out this season. So, I mean, I think about like human nature. And when you're putting an uncomfortable situation, new job, whatever it is, you know, what do you do? How do people normally react? I think what you do is you lean on just the habits. You lean on the old, whatever it is, whenever people are stressed, whenever people are unsure,

30:16everybody reverts back to their base habits. So, what are Jason Taylor's base habits? He's going to drive a question if he's going to have the... I don't want to call it reckless abandon, but I question whether he's just going to be headstrong and say, you know what? I'm driving. I'm trying to dunk on people. Maybe he is. Maybe he is. I have no idea. We're going to have to see it. But when you've hurt your foot, you've hurt your lower leg and you're like, obviously he can be explosive. But are you going to really... Are you going to really jump into traffic? Are you going to really want to land on how is that going to look? Right. Because like he was doing sort of a honest thing before he got hurt, right? Where he was doing that like that... Yeah. He used these big shoulders and like power your way down hill and spray it out if you need to or whatever. Like, I mean, that was what... It was a huge part of what made him so special before he got hurt.

31:18That's going to be hard to do going forward. That's going to be hard to do this year. I don't know about... I think next year he'll be fine. But that's going to be hard to do over the next few months. I think March, April. I don't know. May. Maybe in May. Yeah. You know, it's going to be... My expectation is going to be like a little bit more jumper heavy for Adam. I agree. You know, snatchback dribbles. You know, I'm... Oh, I think I'm going to drive. But no, I'm going to pull back. And because I'm comfortable fading away. I know I can land softly. I can fall backwards. There might be a little bit more falling for Jason Tatum, kind of like sliding and then getting up and going. It's just going to be... I guess the way I'm going to put it is... How risk averse is he going to be in the early going? And it's a natural part of coming back. The...

32:19My body failed me. My leg exploded 10 months ago. Doing a natural thing. And he was just diving for a ball. But I don't want to land wrong. I don't want to be in the middle of the... You know, where eight sets of feet are. So I think it's going to be a lot more jumpers. You know, at least to start. A lot more, you know, step backs. A lot more, you know, passing out of certain situations. Maybe just easing his way into things. So hopefully I'm wrong because I want to see him be confident. That'll take time. But I think for now, it's... Especially, you know, Friday night. That's going to be... Who knows what? It's going to be... We shouldn't expect anything. But I think just setting the expectation of...

33:20Give him time. Let him get the confidence out there. Get the confidence in his body. And just the confidence in the game. Trusting the game to not screw him over again. By blowing up, just to be like, I can go play this game now. And it's not going to be something that hurts me anymore. These are the mental hurdles that just... The shock therapy, the immersion therapy. Oh, you're afraid of heights? Well, guess what? You're jumping out of a plane. That type of thing. And you just got to go do it and be afraid of it. And have it go well and be like, Oh, okay, thank God. Right. And then, in the next day, you'll be like, okay, I'm good at this again. I'm Jason Freakin' Tatum. I'm going to be fine. And build the back up to just being a basketball player again.

34:20You know, there is... This is still a big step to be taken. For sure. The good news is, for Celtics fans, which I was there to kind of help him along the way. What's that for? I said, that Ugo Gonzalez is there to help him along the way. For sure. Also, the other good news for Celtics fans is that we're the ones who are like, I mean, to some degree, you know, you said maybe 44 or 45 wins. I said, yeah, I could see it. I could also see them being in the lottery. So what we should be saying here is, Celtics fans should be expecting Jason Tatum to just like step right back in 48 minutes tomorrow. He's ready to go. That's right. That's right. Considering everything that we've had a concern about, if it follows the trend... I know. I just don't know about Neemie. As a starting center. Are we sure? Are we sure? Jason Tatum's debut. Starting 42 minutes, 39 points, 11 rebounds, eight assists.

35:22Yeah. Game seven against the Knicks. And he puts up like 48, you know, on 14 shots. Yeah. If it follows how this season has gone. Yeah. That's what it's going to be. Like, come back player of the year. They used to give out come back player of the year. But they used to do that for a guy who missed the season previously. Jason Tatum just gets it for like coming back mid season. It's like lighting everything on fire. Yeah. How crazy was it that they used to do a come back player of the year? There's so many guys that had so many injuries that they're like, yeah, we got to do it. We got to give somebody an award for coming back from stuff. Yeah. Bring it back. Yeah, sure. We need to come back for the come back player of the year. That's... I like it. I like it. It's a good place to end it. Tom, appreciate you, buddy. Appreciate you, man. And I appreciate you listening, watching. However you're consuming this podcast. I do thank you for being here on a regular basis.

36:22Monday through Friday for this podcast plus bonus podcast throughout the week, definitely when they play on weekends. Obviously Friday night, Jason Tatum returning. I will be at the garden. I will have a bonus podcast after that. So make sure you're subscribed. Watch the show on YouTube. Get into the comments there. My favorite thing for you to do is share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the lockdown Celtics podcast here in the lockdown podcast. Network is your team every day.