Jano Rix | The Marinade Episode 208

0:00Ever notice how ads always pop up at the worst moments when the killer's identity is about to be revealed? During that perfect meditation flow, on Amazon Music we believe in keeping you in the moment. That's why we've got millions of ad-free podcast episodes, so you can stay completely immersed in every story, every reveal, every breath. Download the Amazon Music app and start listening to your favorite podcast that free, included with Prime. There's no shit to ours on Broadway. There's no shit to ours on Broadway. Oh, welcome to the Marinate, a free-flowing conversation about the creative process.

1:06This episode we welcome musicians, actors, comedians, authors, visual artists, filmmakers, anyone who creates art to talk about how and why we make stuff. This is episode 208 and our guest is John O'Ricks. John O'Ricks is one third of one of my favorite bands of all time, The Wood Brothers. A talented multi-instrumentalist at a live show you'll see Ricks playing the drums or his shit tar, which is a guitar fashioned into this wild Frankensteiny percussion instrument. Look it up, or contributing harmonies with the brothers. I've had the pleasure of seeing the band countless times in the honor of interviewing lead singer Oliver Wood on three separate occasions. The Wood Brothers are woven into the fabric of the Marinate, and I'm so grateful for the opportunities I've had to spread the word about their incredible music. John O'Ricks is also one half of Ricks, the father-son duo with his dad, Luther. Legacy Volume One, their record is available wherever you listen to music, y'all get down on it.

2:11The diffusion of John O'Ricks and Luther, who played in Bob Dylan's Rolling Thunder review and with Leonard Cohen, among others, is a fertile alchemy. We caught up with John O'Ricks on The Wood Brothers' tour bus ahead of their show at the Plaza Live, just down the street from me in Orlando, Florida. Rick Robertson opened the show. Jordan Fully accompanied me that night. We had such a great time. It was a beautiful night. Everyone, it is my great pleasure to bring you my conversation with John O'Ricks. The Wood Brothers is a great song. All right. Yeah? You're a hell yeah. You sound great. All right. Dude, thanks for doing this. I've been wanting to talk to you for a long time, so I'm a huge fan on multiple levels, and so I'm really excited to talk to you. Thank you so much for doing this. Hey, thank you, man. I want to start. We were talking off Michael a little bit about Seth Walker, who's been such a good friend to the Marinade and who's one of my favorite songwriters and performers,

3:19and the records that you produce with him are just produced for him are just incredible works of art. Wow, thank you. You are, man, and I think, you know, I was a fan of Seth for a long time anyway, but there's something different about when you guys are working together. And I wonder if you could speak to that and like what that experience is like for you and if you feel that. Well, yeah, I might have produced more records with Seth than any, I mean obviously with the Wood Brothers, one third of the production, but with him being labeled producer, I think I've done more records with him than anyone. I don't know, I think I just really connect with what he does, and likewise, he was opening for the Wood Brothers early on, and I would sit in with him, and we just had this connection, like just rhythmic and vibe and energy, feel, a feel connection, and then as I remember it, he was the first person I ever asked to produce their record.

4:37And I hadn't really worked a lot as a producer at that point, but we were riding in the van. I think I was doing some Seth Walker dates, like just playing drums dope, and I forget what we were listening to, but I said Seth, I have an idea. Do you want to hear it about how I think your next record could sound? And he was like, yeah, you know, and I just gave him my ideas about that. What was that record? Was that got to get back? I can't remember which record that was, but the first one I did with him as producer, and he liked the idea of it, and I don't know. We float ideas off each other real easy, and he knows I'm really willing to just chase things.

5:39And we always want to do something different than we did last time, and we go in, and I don't know, we have a lot of jokes between us. He'll call me, he's like, oh, you're going to hate me. We record parts of the record often times, and just try different things. Sometimes we go back to the first way, sometimes we grab some of the second way and the first way, so I don't know, we have a flow. I think about, I mean, I just met you, but there's the ease to your sort of your energy, and I think Seth's got a lot of that too. Like, Seth's one of the easiest guys to be around, you know. He's hilarious. He's a very funny man. He's a good person. Yeah, he is a fellow bald. Yeah, yeah, that's true. He does have such a sweet spirit about him, you know.

6:40But that's interesting to me, especially as I just finished recording my debut record. Oh, nice. Yeah, thank you. Is it already a thing? No, it's not already a thing, just the recording is done. But I would absolutely send it to you as soon as it's done. And I think one of the things that worked well for me, especially in my first experience, was that the guy who is producing at Chris Belcher, is a good friend of mine. And he is a very easy guy to be around, at least for me, you know, like we just, we get along that way. And it made me think about, like, if I was doing it with somebody else, what it might feel like. And especially the first time for me in the intimidation that I felt in the whole process. And I wonder how you approach, you know, because as producer, you're kind of at the helm, you know. And you've got to be a leader in there as well as a creative force. And I wonder how you think about each time you are producing something and whether you have to put on a different hat or like a, how your approach differs.

7:45Well, I think part of it is informed by the fact that I was a musician in the studio for many years before I started producing records. So I could see what was comfortable and not comfortable. And when people are comfortable to try things and like let it all hang out, it's okay to be uncomfortable in the studio. Sometimes that produces great results, but not really insecure and feeling like you need to impress someone or do something someone's way. So yes, I'm at the helm of it, but I like, I just feel like it's managing the energy in the room in the moment. As far as recording that part of the process, of course the process goes all the way to how is something going to fit on vinyl correctly, you know.

8:46But as far as the recording process, I just, I know what it's like to do a take and then there's silence and you're sitting in the booth. You have no idea what they're thinking saying. And so your brain starts running and that's draining energy from you that could be used for the rest of the day in your performance and adding anxiety and security, which is not going to let you let loose. Because everyone who I go into the studio with has something like wonderful inside them that they know how to let out because I've heard them let it out. But it's so hard to get that when you're in the studio and you know someone presses record and like this is it, this is forever. Like that's what you don't want to be thinking about endowed in yourself when you're playing. So anyway, I don't know if the answer is your question, but I feel like it's just managing the energy in the room.

9:51So that could be of the players knowing when people need a break. Like we're kind of putting music aside here. Obviously, we're making music and there's tons of musical decisions being made and I, I will, you know, be offering ideas for the music. But often it's best if you have the best is if you have people you love in there who are awesome, who you think are amazing at all the jobs they do, including the engineers and every person who plays an instrument. If you can get them to the point where they can all do their job and be creative, it's going to win over you telling them what to do. A lot of times I had to learn this over time. We're being like, what if you made that a dominant seventh chord? What if you, you know, saying, what if on the, on the E of four, you know, you hit a B flat there and then didn't resolve it to this.

10:58You tell someone to do that, they'll do it. But that's not the best approach because I didn't come from them. It's rare. Sometimes it's the best approach. Some people can function that way. Some people are like, oh, cool, I'll do that and then I'll make it my own. Other people it just shuts them down. It breaks their flow. Often people who are more artists and less craft person, like less studio musician. If you tell them to do exact things, I just feel like you're not getting the best out of them. Then you're making your own record. You're trying to make your own record and you should just do that yourself. You should give directions that are more energetic because what they come up with that feels, that they can just lay into and feels right, right under their fingers, right under their voice. That's going to, they're going to really be able to sell that and get behind it emotionally. I mean, that's beautiful. I don't know. That's beautiful.

11:58And that makes a lot of sense as to why it works so well that you're, you know, sounds like with their moments, you mentioned, like, lessons learned there. And, you know, with their moment, can you think of moments where you're like, oh, fuck, I shouldn't have said it that way or. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you have, you have to fuck up that everything. Oh, excuse me. You can say whatever you want. I'll fuck up everything. To really learn. Yeah, I, you know, I've had really surprising moments, surprising to me where I'm working with someone who I have just listened and watched them do magic on stage. Amazing songwriters, amazing artists. And I tell them to try changing one thing. And I was never a drill sergeant about it. You know, I was like, yeah, what if you, you know, what if you tried this? Just, what if you add this chord in there or take this away?

12:58Taking away is usually more of my speed. And I was just astounded at first how they couldn't do it. And I, you know, I have, I think, you know, I have a very creative artistic side. But I'm also like the craft of music. I've studied since I was little. Like, since I was tiny, I've been practicing and my dad's a drummer and professional musician. So I can sit in the shoes of, can you do it exactly this way? I can do that. And I was amazed that these people who were incredible couldn't do that. But as part of their glory and what them made them so good is that they just have this thing they do that they feel. They might, me even putting words to it, is using a different part of their brain sometimes.

14:00For me, it's not, but for them it is. And it totally destroyed the magic. They like would lose the time, miss the beginning of the next verse just because I was asking them to, you know, change one thing they were playing. So that was a big wake up call that that's not the right approach. And then I learned through that that even with people who can operate in that way. It's still not usually the right approach. If you have someone in there who can sight read anything and they are a virtuoso, and you tell them to do something and they'll do it and they'll be into it, they'll be like, oh cool, yeah, I'll do this. It's still usually not as cool as if you tell them what you think isn't working for you in a more general way and ask them how they would get around that puzzle. How they would solve that problem, they're probably going to come up with something so much cooler than what was in my head.

15:04And that's not because I don't think I have cool things in my head, but I don't think anything in anyone's head is that cool. I think the part of our brain we use to predict the future is slow and not nearly as cool as the whole subconscious thing that happens in the moment. When someone is just with their instrument and things just come out, anyway, that's a long-winded answer about it. It's a hell of a good answer, I love it. You brought up your dad in there and I certainly really want to talk about your work with your dad and legacy volume one, your record that came out. Cool, thanks for knowing about that. It's so good. Oh man. It's so good. I'm happy about it. I'm so glad you're happy about it. And I wonder, you mentioned, I'd kind of like to build up to it if we can. You mentioned studying music as a kid. You were being modest there with your dad, but your dad is playing with Dylan and Leonard Cohen and on and on, right?

16:10I was curious about that musical education because I might as a banker and I didn't want to do that. I wonder if at the end point you were like, did you have a rebellious moment where you were like, I'm going to be an accountant or was it always in you? What was that musical education like, especially with your dad being somebody who played with legends? Yeah, my rebellion was not against that. Yeah, I actually thought my dad was pretty cool. Nice. I was like, cool, dad didn't annoy me. That's awesome. Maybe later on, obviously, we all got a rebel, right? Sure, sure. And get annoyed. But no, I, you know, he's got that amazing resume and he could, he could do so many, he's done so many gigs and different kinds of things in his career from symphonic work, Broadway,

17:10to like you mentioned, like more high profile touring and playing on records, Bob Dylan and stuff like that. So I just grew up watching him and he gave me, he gave me a couple lessons and how to hold the sticks when I was young. Those are the only lessons I remember ever getting from him was two. He taught me like basic technique. But from the time I was tiny, I was wearing like earmuffs and sitting behind his kit when he was playing, you know, like smaller gigs and stuff. And sitting behind his kit when he was playing on Broadway, which I found like so exciting when the lights went down and like the pressure was on and it was like, when I got to do some of that and I was like, this is not for me. Not my thing. It's a very tense pressure way the book. And you know, if you know me, that's not my thing.

18:12Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, what really gets me off is improvising and being in the moment. Yeah. But anyway, there's no shit to ours on Broadway. There's no shit to ours on Broadway. I suppose if I wrote the book, maybe there would be. And then someone else would be screwed having a sub. But that's another New York centric conversation. But yeah, I grew up watching him. But I started, we had a piano in the house and I started banging on it like a drum set. I remember this vividly and they asked me if I wanted to take piano lessons and I kind of shrugged my shoulders. Okay. And so I started when I was six and then. So that's like what I studied formally. And by the time I was eight, we were driving from like NIAC into the city into New York. Every weekend for me to get lessons from someone who is more of like a jazz piano player and a ranger and great musician.

19:13So teaching stuff that was way over my head to an eight-year-old. So I got a really, but it sunk in there. But interestingly, I feel like I come back to that banging on the piano that I was doing as a kid more and more. I've been thinking about that moment and like what I first did on the piano. It was literally my fists, I think. I don't know, just rhythm. I feel like melody and harmony happened by themselves for me. And obviously I went to college. I studied jazz piano at University of Miami. Great school. So I learned all the jazz theory and it was jazz piano performance. So my fingers could move really fast and play all sorts of stuff. And I got out of school and I quit piano promptly for 10 years. I didn't touch an acoustic piano. 10 years for the most part. Just touring as a drummer.

20:14And then after that, I got a gig and I started playing again and I started rediscovering what I liked on piano. I felt like I always did what I liked on drums because I would just go practice for hours in the basement by myself. I put on a Zeppelin record or a police record or a Herbie Hancock record or a Dr. Jomer and I would just practice for hours. The piano was like pulling teeth with the egg timer and like practicing my scales. And all the way through college I felt like I just learned what I was supposed to learn, what I was convinced made you a great musician. And then I just found all the stuff came out of my fingers that I didn't care about really. And I couldn't stop it. So yeah, I just stopped playing. And then when I rediscovered it, I feel like I'm going back to what I really loved, which is like Herbie and Dr. John.

21:15Honestly, not that many piano players. I never really listened to that many piano players. I just thought I had to play piano. That's really interesting. I wish I had like a whole nother conversation that we can have just about piano because that's something that's been in my brain. What is your thoughts about piano? Well, I want to learn. I don't know how to play at all. And I'm a rudimentary guitar player. But I mean, I'm fine. You know, I get on stage and play and sing songs that I wrote with the guitar. But I'm not. That part's never come naturally to me. The instrument playing part. Rhythm though has. And there was something in what you were talking about there that I'm interested in. Has that has rhythm always kind of because you mentioned melody being there in your head fairly naturally. Has rhythm just sort of always kind of been there? Do you remember those early days like when you realize that? I don't think I was conscious of any of that.

22:15But I did hear a tape from when I was four years old playing drums and singing, improvising a blues. That I just hit record on my dad's tape deck. And that was pretty good. I was like, I haven't really gotten that much better. I mean, it was, I was grooving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I feel like we keep learning this over and over with the wood brothers. I think we're becoming conscious of how much rhythm trumps so many other things. When it comes to performing music in the moment. There's songwriting and there's all this million parts of the process. Everything is important. Obviously, you know, picking up things about harmony and melody are important. But I couldn't believe when I looked back at my education all the way through college and music, how little rhythm was talked about.

23:15I mean, unless you're a drummer. I was always playing drums in band outside of college. But in school, I studied jazz piano. Here's an example. Here's an example. When we, the wood brothers, are trying to sing a three-part harmony. And we're not nailing it. And we're working on it in the dressing room. And there's notes just hard for us to stay in tune on something. We realized years ago that we struggle, struggle, struggle. We stop and we just think about grooving with our voices. Think about where we attack the note. Where we let off of it. Just rhythm. Suddenly the pitch just, mmm, comes right. It just locks in. And if things are grooving, the notes don't even matter. Tuning doesn't matter. Like, if it's really grooving, and I can cite lots of records.

24:16You also don't have to do much. I mean, it's a classic thing people talk about. James Brown, right? You know, like, oh, they play the same thing for 10 minutes. You're not bored. You're like, do that all night because they're grooving so hard. Yeah. So how much do we all work on that? How much did any teacher ever tell me to work on it? Very, very few. And hardly ever. And people are playing all over the place. Just not really grooving. And they're playing lots of notes. And why don't we care? Well, why don't we care? It's not grooving. I mean, that's a, there's a transferable life lesson in that. How often, whatever discipline, off my, we were talking about my work as a teacher. And how, and I can, when you just said all of that, I think about when I get lost in the minutia of the paperwork and then this and then that.

25:17But when I'm just, when I'm grooving, when I'm like teaching some very difficult concept about how government works to a seventh grader, you know, when I'm grooving, they're getting it. Right. And if I'm worried instead about this political issue that I have to deal with at the school, and then I've got a conference later and all that stuff, right? But when if I'm just grooving, I've got a lesson plan, right? You've got a set list, maybe, you know, and these, you know, so there's some structure, but it's all understood. Yeah. But if you can let go of that, like I've got the structure in place, and I just need to groove, there's a transferable life lesson there, I think. Yeah, it's kind of like how you're doing something, not what you're doing. We get so worried about what, the what, all the things, but how you're doing stuff. You don't have to do nearly as much stuff in life as you're, or worry about the next what, how you're doing something in the present moment.

26:18You're really present for and really in the groove of, so. Yeah. Okay, so what did, I don't know how we got on that, but I'm happy to be here. What does grooving look like when you're there making a record with your father? Like what, that record has turned out so beautifully, it was a long time to making. What did that process feel like, and where are you grooving? Yeah, you know what's cool is, since we finished it, I had a little space from it, and listened to it, and then had to talk about it a bunch. And in talking about it, I had to go through, in my head, how we recorded it, and the actual doing takes, I mean, we recorded it so fast. And when I listened to the, the literal rhythmic groove of it, I realized, that's why we wanted to make the record. It's like, it's so easy for us to play together. Like, people who,

27:19I remember, I brought my college friends up to New York, and we had a little jam at my parents' house. And my dad played drums, and I think I played keyboards, and they were like, oh, they like recognized the groove right away. Hmm. So, like, and the singing was cool. We've never recorded together, except for this record, and never really sung together. The singing was so easy, and that reminds me of Chris and Oliver, like, when I joined them, I was like, they can sing anything together, and it sounds good. Uh-huh. Like, it can be the wildest, weirdest thing that, I was like, that shouldn't work, but, so that might just be a familial thing, like, just, yeah, family influences, just their internal rhythms, and, so it was really easy to play with my dad, and I'm surprised, in the playing, also how patient my playing is,

28:21I was struck by that recently, like, solos, like, there's a lot of keyboard solos in the record. There's like, not really a moment that I feel like I'm trying, hard to do anything. Groove it. Yeah, like, yeah, like, there's nowhere to go. I'm not like, oh, I got to make this, you know, I got to make this rip here. Uh-oh, is it good enough? You know, I don't hear myself worrying at all. Yeah. So, that was cool to realize how comfortable we felt, that I didn't feel like I had to make things awesome. They were just happening by themselves. But finishing the record was hard for me, because I think I wanted it to be good, just doing a record with my dad. Yeah, I think that's, I'm part of the reason it dragged on for 12 years. Uh-huh. Because it was up to me to finish it, you know, he did his parts, and I had to, you know, finish all the parts, and mix it. Was there something that, like, lit a fire under you

29:21to finally do it? You know, you know, yeah, I mean, I just, I was like, you only have so much time. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, and it was dragging on. I think I got some other things together in my life, too. And, I feel like, when I looked back in the last couple of years, I started attacking the harder things in my life. Things I was avoiding, I've started doing them. And part of those that is conscious. But even before it was conscious, I realized I was starting to be like, okay, sit down. Don't be afraid of this. Or be afraid of it. And just finish it. Yeah. Being an adult. Yeah. Which is not always easy. No. Being an adult gets in the way of grooving a lot. Yeah. That is a thing. Sometimes it feels like, oh,

30:21I should just go back to being, acting like a child, but grooving and moving in the moment. But yeah, I realize you got to, you can't go back. You have to evolve into a new version of yourself that is, that is both things. Yeah. A new thing. So, trying. How are you feeling about this version of yourself? Working progress. Uh-huh. No, it feels really good. It feels really good. You know, I don't know if it's so much in musical things, but just in life, like, just really taking stock. And trying to, just be real present in my home life. Uh-huh. And not let that suffer when I go on the road and keep my, keep what's important in mind more all the time. But you're right. Like, in the moment,

31:21obviously, lose yourself in the moment. But, um, I don't know. Yeah. I think that's what, and family in this record with my dad and spending a little more time with family, uh, is important. My wife and, and my parents, you know, my parents aren't going to be around forever. So, I'm lucky to have them. Still. Same. I mean, we got my grandmother. And amazing. It is amazing. She's my hero. Um, I don't know if I'm, I'm just going to say it on Mike. I'm going to name the EP for her. I'm going to dedicate it to her. And, um, but yeah, it's like a, ever-present, looming thing that my parents are old. And my grandmother's, you know, 90, she'll be 93 next week. Um, and she's still a badass. She, I'm mose-roan-fucking-lawn.

32:21You know, and 90, three of us all. Yeah. She's still different. Um, yes. But, but yeah, that's something that I think about quite a bit, um, in like connecting with him and the ways to do so without and still live my life. You know, yeah. Like, still make sure that I'm, that I am continuing to to grow and continuing to make the things that I want to make, you know, yeah, I keep those creative plates spinning. And that's been a challenge for me lately, honestly. Um, and so you do a lot, and I'm wondering what, how you maintain and like, what your practice is to make sure that you're keeping your projects all spinning the way you want them to, and that they turn out the way you want them to. Well, I wouldn't say it comes naturally and easily to me. It doesn't feel easy to have a lot of balls in the air. Mm-hmm. I'm very much a focus, loose track of everything,

33:21kind of person. Me too. Yeah. Um, so there's oftentimes when I wish I hadn't said yes to so many things or I could just, just be working on this one record or just be touring and have nothing else. Yeah. But, um, and that's not reality. And in reality, it makes life richer. You know, and it makes all the things better to have more influences and more richness in my life. I find that inspiration for music, for me, is not usually from music. There's a lot of exceptions to that, of course, but it's from having other things in my life gives me fire to play music. Yeah. And that's just work, when it works for me. But as far as having a lot of records, ah, it can be tough, you know, when I'm getting mixes sent to me or check out this new master,

34:21do you think that one DB more of, you know, high end is better on this song, what about the, you know, and we're playing a show, right, you know, and yeah. Yeah. It's a lot to handle, but, um, I don't know. I'm lucky to do it. Mm-hmm. Just lucky to do it. I've done a lot of other jobs, and, uh, I'm lucky to be able to do this job and actually make a living, making music, making records, playing with, who was my favorite band, The Wood Brothers? Yeah. Making a record with my dad, and that whole thing, coming to fruition, working with people like Seth. Yeah. So, I just try to keep that in mind when I'm feeling really frazzled. So, answer. Yeah. I'm not always good at it. I feel frazzled. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting way behind on emails and getting back to football. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But, um, yeah. I don't know.

35:21Well, thanks. Uh, I've learned nothing. Um, it's on the same way. Good. So, we can have this therapist such as you know. Um, but yeah, I still get it done, you know, and all gets done, right? I don't, but I just, I wish I had a practice and I'm pretty disciplined. I am a participant person, you know. So, I think that's part of it. And I am able to, just my discipline allows it to, to get done, you know. I guess I am too. People say that about me. They're like, you are so disciplined. And I, I don't feel like I am. Yeah. Because I always want to be getting in like myself care. Uh-huh. More, especially on the road. But, but then again, I, yeah, I try to like, I exercise every day. Yeah. I try to meditate every day. And I, I try to keep a, keep my mind. Well, those things go, those things just go so far. Like those two things right there. Yeah. Um, meditation is something that you have

36:21back into, but I very rarely miss a day of exercise, you know. Um, and it does make all the difference in the world. And when I'm not doing it, my brain isn't as sharp, and I'm not keeping up with the, the plates that are spending or the balls in the air. That's the number one thing for me, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm going to, if I have to go into the studio all day, like the most important thing is probably movement. Uh-huh. Yeah. And then, often times, I mean, I'm, I'm the weird guy who, whether I'm the producer or play it on the session, we take a lunch break, I run out the front door, and I will run around the block. Like, I just need to reset, um, yeah, I just like to, I love music, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I feel like I, I, I, the older I get, the more I just, instead of worrying about the particulars of the music,

37:21I just, I'm noticing my brain, and noticing my process. And I can feel when it starts to get tight. Mm-hmm. Or when I start to get irritable. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. Whatever I'm irritated by, is probably not the problem. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. I thought about that today. I even, in my class today, we were talking off mic about some shit that was dealing with, I'm not going to board everybody with right now, but, um, but in the class, I even just like, I'm teaching my seventh graders, and I realized how fresh air I was, with one particular kid. Yeah. And I backed off, and I, caught myself, and I just said to the kids, I was like, I'm not frustrated at you, but I am frustrated. And I need to make sure that I, back off, because you didn't do anything. You know, like, you didn't cause this problem. Now, the kid was fucking up. Yeah. But, he was fucking up.

38:21But still, you know, you create the weather in your classroom in that way. Right. And so I had to back up and be like, oh wait, the root of this problem is not that, this kid keeps like, dosing off. It's, I'm really upset about this other adult thing, and it's, and I can't let it affect the kids. Um, and so I just said it to them. I was like, if I come across the wrong way, I would like you to politely, um, tell me that I'm coming across the wrong way, and correct me. And, uh, I think the, the simple act of naming it, then I will fix myself, you know. Right. Nobody said anything, so I think I'm, okay. That's a huge, uh, that's a huge lesson for them, if they heard it. And they probably weren't able to process what that meant. But, yeah, I know. It was, yeah. In the future, I mean, just to see an, an adult really adult like that. Yeah. And be honest. That's the hope. So for where? Yeah. That's the hope. Well, dude, I want to be mindful of your time. We're probably up against doors now,

39:21and I'm so excited for the show, but I just wanted to, uh, the, the one thing we didn't get to talk about that, you've talked about plenty. So I, I don't really need to ask you about, but just, I think it's so fucking cool, that the Wood Brothers were your favorite band, and they're one, and y'all are one of my all-time favorite bands, and the idea that, it was your favorite band, and then here you are. You know, all these years later. It's not weird. It's so cool. Um, so, uh, I just wanted to celebrate that, and then we usually end things on what you're getting down on, so that's the art that has you fired up right now. Hmm. It could be music, or it could be a book you're reading, or painting you saw, or a TV show, or a book I'm reading. Um, well, a book I'm reading is, oh shoot, it's right in the other room. I'm not gonna go get it. Uh, but it's, I can't remember the title of it. It's by Chogum Trungpa Rinpoche, who, uh, is well known for starting Shambhala.

40:23Uh, I would call it Shambhala Buddhism. He kind of stripped the, religiousness, religiosity from the Buddhism. Uh, so he, he brought a lot of that new way of, of experiencing, that to America. Hmm. In, in a way that was, because he, when he came, uh, he, he realized it was hard for us to ingest this stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, anyway, I'm reading one of his books, that someone called me. I wish I could remember the title of it. But I've never read his words. I've read a lot of the words of people he taught. Uh-huh. And he's a character. Uh, he's, he's, uh, controversial. He was, uh, a drunk. That's interesting. Uh, I mean, yeah, not all the time. You can find videos of him. He was, he was very eloquent, even when he, you can tell he was a little drunk, and he's like messing with people. He was like the Zen Master,

41:24uh, drunken Zen Master. Yeah. Um, anyway. That's it. That's, that's, that's been inspiring me. I think in music, um, I get, because people probably don't know, but I, I do a lot of Latin dance. My wife and I, oh cool. She got me into that, years and years ago, kicking and screaming. I did not want to do it, because I was terrible, of course, uh, as a beginner. And then I got the bug at some point, and it went really hard for about five years to a decade, and I actually wanted to quit music, quit touring, and just be a professional. That's, uh, incredible. Yeah. Um, and we teach now, uh, we've taught for years, but now we have our own, like, thing up in Vermont, where we live now. Um, but, so I listened to a lot of Cuban music, and I've been really into the modern Cuban, uh, music. Well, I say modern, but this goes back aways. But, uh, teamba, uh, music. So I've been into a lot of that.

42:24Um, and I gather a lot of inspiration from that, um, which I actually bring to the wood brothers, even in the sounds, a bit. That's so fucking cool, but I did not know that fact about you. Yeah. Yeah. And I found a konga teacher, and I had an April off last year, and I just studied kongas the whole. It's just, I'd never played hand drums. Interesting. So that's, ah, that's been so fascinating, and it's the music we dance to, like, even, um, I don't think listeners will probably know about, Wal-Wonco, uh, GUA, GUA, NCO, it's a kind of Roomba, from, um, Cuba, that predates the teamba, and the salsa, and the song, and, the art forms that came after it, but, um, man, learning, learning, what's going on in the drums in that, and, and getting, so I can kind of do it. Yeah.

43:24And by no means a master of that, but that's really inspiring for me. So that's my answer. Dude. What a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much. This is the pleasure I knew it would be. Yeah. Fun, thanks. But I'm so grateful. I'm so excited for the show tonight, and, so excited for folks to listen to Legacy, and, so excited for folks, to listen to Legacy. So I, so I, love the smoke. You think that that I guess is a good question. Awesome! Cheers. Love the smoke. Get two records come out last year, um, the Wood Brothers public smokes and one of my favorites of the year, I hope you all are gonna play a bunch of that tonight. I bet you will, and I'm so excited, dude. So thank you so much. I thank all of you for listening to Woodbrows.com. For all things, the Woodbrothers, get a copy of Legacy Volume One by Rix at royalpotatofamily.com. Follow John O'Rix and the Woodbrothers

44:24on all the socialsmarinaypodcast.com for all things the marinade. Follow us on all the socials, y'all. I was just reflecting earlier this morning on how I'm on all the things. And there's so much to report lately. I mean, I have a conversation with the legendary songwriter Paul Kelly on the way. Also have a very special crossover episode with Ben Montgomery and Wayne Fugate of Records Revisited, where we talked about protest songs with the incredible Ron Pope. So much fun he played at Tuffy's music box in Sanford, Florida, just down the road for me. Earlier this month, and we all met up and talked about our favorite protest songs. So check that out. Should be on the way in a couple of weeks. And the best way to make sure you don't miss anything is to do two things. One, follow us on socials and two, subscribe and give us a five star radio on your podcast app. Tell a friend about the show. These are all free ways to support the marinade. Go do that right now while you're listening. Please, it makes a huge difference for us

45:26and cause so little of your time and energy. Also, please follow Life's greatest hits on Instagram, on Twitter, on Blue Sky. So you can get updates on threads. Two updates about my podcast with my dear friend, Mr. Jordan, fully, we just did an episode. We just released an episode about Ben Nichols in the heart of the mountain. And I don't, you know, I'm not one to pay too much attention to numbers, but this one is lapping the field compared to our others. And I'm just so grateful to everybody who listened and didn't to Ben for helping spread the word. It makes a huge difference. When the artist is also invested in helping spread the word about the episode. And I think it's a great episode. We're having so much fun with it. The next episode we're gonna do is the new Johnny Blue Sky's record. And we were gonna wait to listen to it together, but we can't, it's gonna be like another week

46:27and a half. Life is life-ing, right? Jordan's got a lot going on. I got a lot going on. So we went ahead and just agreed to wait until the record was released before we listened to it, but we were listening to it separately. And y'all, I cannot wait to talk about this record. It's so sexy. Really excited for it. If you like what we're doing with this marinade thing, please consider joining our Patreon community. Y'all two bucks a month, that's it. You can get Patreon-exclusive content like our show Jason's Journey, where I talk about the moments that shaped my creative life and provide a window into the process of making the marinade. If you've ever been curious about Patreon, now would be a great time to try it. You can try a free trial, see if you like it, no pressure. Try it for seven days. Set a reminder on your phone in case you want to cancel. I've been posting little snippets of the process of making my debut EP. I got the mix back on my song Welcome to Florida. I cannot wait for y'all to hear this. It sounds so good. And that is up and available on Patreon. It's the only place you can listen to it.

47:27Unless you come to one of my shows and then you can hear me play it live, but the only place that exists in recording form and recorded form is on Patreon. So for now. So check it out. If you want to support the show financially, but you don't want to commit to a monthly subscription, I totally get that. You can vim or pay palace. It's just at the marinade. And if you do that and you want to hear the song, I'm happy to send it to you as well. Just tell me where to send it. If you hadn't heard, that record is on the way. I'm so excited. My dear friend, Chris Belcher is producing any little bit helps y'all. We're trying to make some merch. And I'm going to plan a tour. We're going to try to make CDs. It'd be a dream to make, to press the divinal. So at the marinade on vim or paypal or join the Patreon, every little bit helps. And I'm just so thankful. There's no Jason Earl record. There's no Jason Earl performance without the marinade. I can clearly state that.

48:29This has been, this podcast has been and continues to be an inspiration to me. And I'm just incredibly grateful to every single one of you who has been on this journey for however long. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Until next time, go on create something. Cheers.