Is Outer Space for Everyone?

Welcome to We Fixed, you're welcome.

The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put

them back better than we found them.

Today we're talking about something that used to be science fiction, and now feels like

a check mark on a billionaire's bucket list.

Space travel.

It's not just for astronauts and cosmonauts anymore.

These days it seems anyone who can write a big check can take a joy ride into the unknown.

If you've seen the resulting photos and videos, a space voyage looks like summer camp for

the Uber, wealthy, the ultimate experience.

And what do you get for the price of admission?

Right now we're talking about 3-5 minutes in zero gravity, and then back to the mansion.

But this is just getting started.

The push to commercialize space travel is escalating.

And an increasing number of 4 profit companies want to go to space for their own purposes.

It's not too far-fetched to think about private space stations, moon bases, maybe even

luxury hotels and cities somewhere other than Earth.

These are real conversations that are happening, and plans are in the works.

We're going to figure this all out, and ask the question, who does space belong to?

Is it governments, corporations that can outspend governments?

Should we all go full speed ahead into space for the sake of progress, or are we collectively

pushing the limits of something we don't truly understand yet?

Well, Chino, Melissa, I don't claim to be an expert on any of this.

Today we're joined by Christopher Husey.

Christopher is a global space executive and the founder and CEO of OSA Consulting,

where he focuses on expanding access to the space sector for entrepreneurs,

startups, and organizations around the world.

He spent his career in the intersection of space, policy, and business,

advising aerospace companies, working in regulatory and government affairs,

and helping shape how commercial space evolves, both in the US and globally.

Christopher, please tell us more about yourself, and also tell us about your nonprofit.

Yeah, well, thank you.

It was wonderful to be here, Aaron, with joined by Chino and Melissa to talk about space.

My career, I've been in it for almost 20 years, and I've worked in a variety of different roles.

I've worked at the State Department during the Obama administration,

and it was part of an interagency team running the National Space Policy.

I've worked as both corporate counsel and a director for a company called

Bigelow Aerospace, which sent the first expandable commercial habitation module

to the International Space Station in 2015.

But also, as you mentioned, I co-founded a global nonprofit called the Space Court Foundation.

There's a little bit of an irony, because there's no courts in space.

We created a foundation ahead of time so that people understand that the rule of law

applies to space.

And what we do is we promote space education in the rule of law.

We have a global internship program.

We take about 30 students a year.

We do original research, and you can check us out on our website at www.spacecourtfoundation.org

and at Space Court Foundation on YouTube, where we have some content

directed at getting the general public to understand what actually is

space law and regulation and how that works in your daily life.

And our flagship pilot that we have there is called Stellar to Sises.

We're re-invited three notable professionals in space law to adjudicate a fake space law case

that we presented by actual two space lawyers who were actually husband and wife.

Well, both of them are very good friends of mine, but whatever was my roommate in law school.

So one thing about the space community is what may seem it's filled with billionaires

and multimillionaires.

It's filled with a lot of average people who just have a passion for space

and want to see space developed and an economical and safe

and inclusive way.

Well, thanks, Christopher.

I'm really glad to have you here with us.

And I think space lawyers probably the coolest business car there could ever be.

You know, there's stuff more than any of us.

I'm going to try to get the rest of us up to speed in about a minute.

So modern space exploration really begins with Sputnik in 1957

and the space race with the Soviet Union within 12 years.

We're walking on the moon one small step for man.

Yay.

But the US and Soviet space initiatives were each backed by different governments,

but they were both government funded projects.

So in fact, for most of modern history, space exploration has been the result of efforts

by one government or another.

In over six decades, roughly only 360 NASA astronauts have gone to space.

That's a small group of people.

If you went to space, it was because you were a trained astronaut selected by NASA

or another national program.

But now here comes private companies like Blue Origin and SpaceX

with a focus on passengers who are civilians, rich civilians,

important researchers, pop stars, you've seen the headlines.

Since 2021, Blue Origin alone has taken over 80 individuals into space

on short suborbital missions.

That may not sound like a lot, and the flights are short.

But compared to the elite class of astronauts in the past,

it's clear things are changing.

The door is cracking open.

And it gets more interesting.

NASA plans to retire the International Space Station after 2030.

Instead of replacing it with another government-owned station,

NASA is encouraging private companies to build the next generation of space stations

as commercial destinations.

And since space is governed by agreements like the outer space treaty,

which says no nation can claim ownership of the moon or other celestial bodies,

we're entering a complicated situation.

No one country can own space, but companies can build, operate,

and profit bear under national laws.

So here's what we're going to fix.

Since it's already happening, should we all get on board with space tourism?

Our private companies equip to take the lead on space exploration and development?

And just because all of this is possible doesn't mean it should be happening

at the speed it's happening.

That's our conversation.

Chris, were you going to kick us off?

Sure.

I mean, my position is we've got to get the help that's planted.

In my career, I have, and working with different colleagues,

work to send people and things to space.

I've worked with companies like SpaceX and others, Virgin Galactic.

I'm mostly on the human space late side in my career,

but we're also moving to say a lot of operations,

and you see a lot of robust changes there.

I think what the average person needs to understand is that most of which you understand

is daily, see the art technology here on earth is not actually moved into space.

We've not tested a lot of things.

So you probably hear about things like putting data centers.

Well, when you start hearing about all these different things you can do in space,

it raises a lot of questions.

So you mentioned the outer space treaty.

The outer space treaty in Article One actually says that outer space is the common regime

of humanity.

Right?

I'm paraphrasing.

There's a different word for that.

But it's a little controversial.

I want to go down that rabbit hole.

But the whole point is that everyone is supposed to have access to space.

Over the last, I would say, 20, 25 years, there's been a huge uptick in the number of companies

that have both successfully gone to space and also unsuccessfully gone to space.

I think that's a good thing.

We have to try out how we do things and we have to see what works.

Now that's not to say that there aren't serious policy issues associated with that.

And for me, my career has been trying to get larger commercialization efforts so that

anyone, whether it's Aaron, Chino, Melissa, or your kids, your grandkids, your great-grand

children, anyone you know, well, they want to go to space, they can't go to space.

And I think there is a fundamental, at least philosophical reason for me, which was I don't

think that as a species, we're in a suicide pack with each other to stay on this planet.

Now how we go about that is the central question.

And lots of people have different ideas about settling the moon or going to Mars.

That's all great.

What you have to keep in mind is the slow role of this technology into space and utilized

by space is what keeps this podcast actually to be recorded, to be distributed.

It allows you to move money around through bank accounts.

It allows you to make your phone calls wherever you are on this earth.

And it also helps you figure out where the hell you are when you don't have a Thomas

guide anymore and you have to rely on GPS.

So our society has evolved to the point where we depend on space technology for everyday

life.

And if it all went away tomorrow, we'd all have to go back to the way the things used

to be in the 70s and 80s and rely on paper things, on institutional knowledge.

I mean, how many people even remember phone numbers anymore?

So you know, it's part of our society now and how we adapt to it, I think, is really

the important bit.

And you first start with who has access to going to space.

I think it's interesting when you talk about the democratization because it's not just

I have a right to live in a time where something exciting like this is happening and I'm watching

the progress happen and the technology catch up, but I have a right to participate.

Yeah.

I understand theoretically what you're saying, Chris, that yes, it's open to us.

But in reality, it's not.

I would just say that it's still an exclusive opportunity, you know, it's costly.

You know, all of the people you've mentioned who've gone to space have had to pay a great

deal.

And the average citizen of the world doesn't have that kind of money to be able to pay to

go up to space.

So I think, you know, to focus the conversation and I don't know how we want to do that, Chris

or Aaron, but like I do think that there are multitudes of components before we get to

the point where we can really say space is an opportunity that all of us have a right

to that we can actually participate in because I get it theoretically, we've already got

the space station where we've already done some of these things.

We've had SpaceX, we've had Blue Origin go up.

But again, it's a very limited population group that's getting that opportunity.

And so the thought is really understanding what is the client value proposition?

So the person who chooses to pay to go up, right?

And also what is the business value proposition?

So to your point, Chris, like you're, you're looking to expand into space and have the

opportunities.

So it's about business.

It's about like what are we going to be doing and how are we going to be building structures

and processes and operations and the research missions and all the things that are currently

up there and do we really even want to duplicate what's on earth to some places?

Probably no.

I don't know.

Well, it's interesting because you think of these open marketplaces like eBay or YouTube

or Etsy where it starts off with everyone's invited and everyone's diplomatic and you

can come on and have a representation there.

But then it builds into this, well, some know how to do it better than others and some are

more structured and some sell better.

And then those rise to the top and that everyone egalitarian model kind of falls away.

And yeah, you can still be there, but you don't really have much of a presence or much

of a voice and you don't do as well as others that are now suddenly at the top.

I got to jump in.

I got to jump in.

Chris, I'm so excited to have you here.

I've actually worked with the planetary society before and their mission is all about empowering

the world citizens to advance space science and exploration, which I 1000% stand beside.

I believe deeply that we need to be doing more in terms of space research.

I agree with your first statement to Chris about, you know, we need to get the hell out

of here and we figure out a different way.

And as you are talking to about how it impacts human physically to go into space, that's

all science.

And what I wanted kind of fragment this conversation because there's two aspects to this.

There's the utilitarian need to figure something better because those humans would not

never that great with our planet, right?

There's a finite time.

It's a long time, but it's finite.

What other ways to explore, but to do that, it's all based on science, right?

For me personally, when I'm looking at these multi-billion dollar companies who've invested

into space travel, my challenge here, like similar to the Titanic exploration, you're having

people do this for their own ego.

And I don't want this to be excuse my French, a dick measuring contest to see who's their

first.

And yes, I appreciate Tom Cruz going there in Russia coming into doing a scene.

We as humans need to figure out and have the science there to back it.

I want to touch on the planet here side a little bit because they had a day of action last

year to help.

They went to Congress to negotiate and hopefully rebut their claim to want to cut down their

funding 50%.

Right?

Last year.

They were able to take that.

There's going to be another day of action.

April 19th to the 20th of this year.

Go on their website to check out how you can be a part of that.

But I think that yes, there needs to be space, lawyer, but we need to make sure that this

is grounded on bringing back information in science versus just sending celebrities up

and it becoming your next holiday vacations thought because there is a need to do to explore

states and to bring that science back.

And I think, again, when we talked about, you mentioned Chris, you know, right now it's

no one's owning anything, right, as a nation.

I'm not American.

I'm Canadian.

Right?

So Canadian here, when we talk about threat actors and, you know, with the current political

climate of going on, sometimes you got asked, yes, obviously there are certain things.

But who's controlling that radar because a threat actor to you and me can look differently

depending on what that is.

And I'm sure I would have loved to sit in the room when the, you know, the husband and

wife, space, lawyers are going back and forth on that.

But that is something we need to be able to tackle.

And I do think we need space exploration.

I would love to see that backed by billionaire's Elon.

Give NASA some more money.

I know that you wanted to help TSA, you just, you know, put out a statement on X saying

that you would help the TSA, you know, providing income for the people that are losing their

income while there is the strike.

Can we add your billion dollars, more than a couple billion dollars to NASA and other

aspects so that the everyday person who is excited and who wants to be about it, who understands

the need for space exploration to become their own scientist to help bring back something

if we're going to do space exploration and tours, there should be something that we're

bringing back from a research perspective outside of just how this impacts the human body.

And I think that's where I'm finding the miss here as an everyday citizen where it's just

another luxury for the billionaires where I'm not seeing it as how are we trying to help

the human race essentially to explore space and so Chris, I'm curious because I know

a lot of people have the same sentiment.

I'm not intimately in this world.

I'm completely back the planetary society.

I love what they stand for as well and I know that you're non for profit and what you

do is exactly this.

But how would you tell our listeners to say that this is just for billionaires and what

would be the win to do that?

Yeah, yeah, I'd start with the floor in a ceiling.

So the floor is for five to ten thousand dollars, you can go to Southampton, Pennsylvania

right now and figure out if you're medically clear to go to space and you could get clear

to go work with SpaceX or Blue or Virgin or whomever else comes online for human space

flight.

They train for all that.

That is no different than doing anything that would be an extreme environment.

So you want to climb to the top amount Everest, you want to go to the bottom of the ocean.

The difference is is that when it comes to space flight, human space flight, like this

stuff is taken very seriously.

Everyone involved, it takes safety very seriously.

Do you have to understand is that all, all human space flight activities is designated

legally as ultra hazardous and the same thing that you do, if you want to do paragliding

or parachuting or whatever it's done flying, it's all, it's all the same legal regime.

Now the ceiling on this is and the sort of the pushback on the billionaires taking vacations.

That's actually not accurate.

It is a reflection because Bezos and Richard Branson had to demonstrate for themselves and

their constituencies that their spacecraft works.

The person that's not on that list, Elon has never flown to space.

Elon has never been on a dragon and he is never going to get on a vehicle unless he is

ready to go die on Mars.

You said that publicly, but that's not taking a vacation, that's a one way trip for him.

You don't hear the same rhetoric out of Richard Branson or Bezos or very few others, so that's

an exception.

Having done this for clients who tried to get a listers to space, I can tell you it's

not that simple.

The perp example actually is Bezos, so think of any celebrity that you'd like to see

in space.

Now put just one asterisk on Tom Cruise because he's the exception in all of Hollywood,

all of the a-listers because he can self-fund.

If you are an a-lister or extremely high-wealth individual like Bezos, if you want to go to

space, all of your lawyers and all of your insurers will say, sure, but you need to do X,

Y, and Z things to do that.

What did Bezos have to do?

He had to cancel all his insurance for a day and he had to resign from a bunch of boards,

all his boards are on, because the risk if he dies means everything goes into probate

or whatever, trust that he's got set up, and you don't want to deal with that.

But if you're an actor, you can't take two years off of not making movies.

Look at some of the a-lister actors, Timothy Shalamey or whatever, they're doing two-three-four

movies in a two-three-year period, so it's an opportunity cost.

Do I go and make $120 million and maybe win an Academy Award, or do I just hang out

with a bunch of people for two years and trained for space?

Now, the training time for space has significantly been diminished, but it depends on what you

want to do there and how long you want to be there.

For example, Jared Isaacman, the current NASA administrator.

He's still the only real, let's say, wealthy person that's gone to SpaceX to be their

guinea pig, and one of the consequences of him being their guinea pig is that he demonstrated

an EVA in extra vehicular activity.

So that's basically putting on a pressurized space suit, depressurizing the capsule with

all your friends inside, walking outside, doing an EVA for a certain period of time, usually

like 30 seconds and coming back in.

But I could easily see Tom Cruise wanting not to have any tether and have some sort of

propulsion system with the satellites as cameras showing him do some mission impossible

15 stunt, right?

I mean, so it's interesting and who actually can go to space and what we would expect to

go to space.

So all of these things are opening up.

Yeah, Chris, you were talking about first, and you're talking about it too, and there's

that there's like a pissing match going on, and there's a premium, you know, whoever's

going to be first to do anything in this sector is going to pay multiples.

The first VCR is to market back in the day where $1,200 or $1,500, when they hit economies

of scale and product adoption, that dropped quite a bit.

So first one in the door is going to pay that was $60 million or whatever it is.

Second, third, 28th, you know, as the line grows longer, yeah, they're booked out for the

next five, 10 years, and now maybe no end in sight, and the more that they can command

a premium for, for these elite experiences, more power to them.

But at some point, if you really want to turn this into a viable enterprise beyond just

the ultra elite that get bankrolled or can write the check, you got to figure out how

do you make this, you know, make it accessible to more players and let the doors open.

And I think just on that note too, because I, again, agree, I do think people should

be going up.

I think we should be exploring space.

We need to, for humanity.

But when we look at it from like a people and culture lens, I'm like, what does this

mean?

Right?

Again, being first is great, but I do think if you're a business that says I want to do

it.

Like again, with the, you know, for poor, not poor Katy Perry, very rich Katy Perry and

Gil Kig and Lauren Sanchez, he went up on the Blue Origin flight, right?

For one international women's day, I think it was last year, which isn't saying to think

about.

But when they came back, it wasn't saying blowback.

It didn't read well.

Katy Perry kind of had to, you know, go underground a little bit dating my former prime minister.

But it just wasn't, it didn't read well.

And so if you're a brand who's saying, okay, great, I want to bring Katy Perry, I want

to be Gil Kig.

I want to bring Aaron and Melissa and Chris to space.

There needs to be a messaging there too, because I think at the end of the day, this all

goes back to like, what is the greater good?

I believe, like you're right, Chris.

If you, you know, something happened to all the people who have made their careers in

space exploration, who've worked at NASA, there's not that many, there's not that many

people.

But are there a thousand and millions of people who are interested looking at the Planetary

Society's membership?

I know that that's, it's a fact.

And I think it's going to cost millions, but what I don't want to happen is it just

become a ego trip to go up there.

I would love to see that money being donated back.

We have in kind of, you know, donations to NASA or other private sectors that you work

with, you're not pro-profit that actually will help bring more people into the space community

because it should be accessible right now, the barrier to entry is money.

And if you're a billionaire that has no problem doing these little ego trips, I would really

hope that you would add something to it and give back as part of your trip to a, optically,

it looks good on you, but be, you're allowing for more of the space exploration and the

plans because it can't just be a trip, you know, that 10-minute concert is cool for

who?

Not me.

Not you.

It's not doing anything.

Like, what are you?

If you're going to go up there, what are the, what's the data you're gathering outside

of just what the effects are on humans?

We have a larger data set on that.

You talked about the degree of, you know, safety that we do know.

And like, there's opportunities to train.

So that's great.

Obviously, more data is important.

But what else, what else is out there that we're not touching on because we're so focused

on being the first versus looking at it from a space exploration.

I think as a business, you can't do a without that critical piece without looking like

an asshole to be frank.

And I think that if you're going to do that as a, as a business, that's, they need to

go together.

Almost.

If we put companies in charge instead of governments and make companies, the gatekeepers,

does that solve anything?

Does that make, make it better to that, to start to open things up and have companies

be the, the side be the decision makers of other companies that get to play along?

Is it supposed to governments?

Does that help to democratize the situation or is it just out of complexity?

I think it adds complexity, but I also think that what you're saying is a proven thing.

So when different companies are involved in operations and scaling or transforming,

innovating, growing a business, it's really important that they learn from their past.

And so I think Chris, you've talked about this a little bit about, you know, what do

we want out there in space and what are the types of industries that are going to be relevant,

are going to continue to, you know, bring resources in there, are going to bring travel

there, are going to be part of a critical mission, you know, that's supposed culturally

and scientifically and, you know, life changingly important.

And so that's one of the things that I was asking around value proposition, because

I think the value proposition for, I'm going to call them space explorers, your space

travelers, which would be more the citizen type of person or, you know, or the worker going

up to space is different than what the value proposition would be for a business, right?

So when you're seeing that perspective, I would hope that business leaders are, you're

getting the most innovative minds, Chris, like yourself, to help to kind of create that

roadmap.

You know, whenever you think about startups, whenever you think about corporations as they

scale and grow, they look to the data to inform them of how to do that effectively.

You know, space is still, you know, the unknown frontier, so to speak, in a lot of ways.

And even though, you know, I know you were aligning at Chris with, you know, airlines

or trains, we've all used different modes of transportation to get where we need to go.

There's still a sense of like, do I trust that this is a safe thing for myself to do, right?

And it's the same manner is do I trust as these operations grow out in space?

And do I understand, is there opaqueness or is it transparent?

What their mission is, what their critical mission is, and how can I best understand that and

align myself with that?

Because I do think it is the answer.

We know we need to, we need to look further than our, our small planet.

And I, I do believe Erin to your point, you know, that we need to be very thoughtful and

intentional about how we build that out.

And I know that there are plenty of smarter people doing that right now, but again, I don't

see that transparency that will help me as an individual say, okay, I'm willing to put

my money where my mouth is, I want to do this, I want to be part of it.

I'm kind of sitting back and saying, I'd like to see who actually ends up there and what

businesses end up there because in relation to, you know, and again, I know that we're

talking about it, you know, in a different way.

But it really, again, to me, it doesn't make sense that, you know, you're not going

to have a sociologist go up there right now.

Like that doesn't have the means and sponsorship and backing and then has that personal mission

to understand what their purpose is to do so.

So I think all of that needs to be clearly defined.

And I, you know, and again, I'm not aware of all the different things that are going on.

I know there's, there's a multitude of countries, there's a multitude of corporations, there's

a multitude of societies that are trying to push this to the forefront.

But I do feel like it needs to have a common thread between to ensure that we are building

with intention as we go to space.

So like the companies that are there have first mover advantage.

So, you know, if I, let's say I wanted to start a cell phone company and I had to apply

through the government and work through the bureaucracy and raise all the funding off.

Like that's a lot of work and there's a clear path to it.

If I wanted to start a cell phone company and I was late to the game and I had to apply

to Verizon and T-Mobile, they're going to have competing incentives whether or not

they let me in and let me play.

So are we creating this barrier already of whoever's been, you know, been proven, passed

some safety regulations and they're already, you know, locked and loaded, they're building

the space issues, they're getting the funding and all the money and not, you know, like

marketplaces that I mentioned like Etsy and those are they locking out others that

want in and just can't play along because they're too far behind.

I think those companies are limiting themselves to be honest.

So what I mean by that Aaron is everyone has that same opportunity that the, to, to

what Chris was saying, you know, it's the democratization of space.

Who's going to prioritize that?

So like if we're just talking, you know, satellites or cell phones, whatever, all of those companies

have the same opportunity to prioritize that that's what they want to invest in that

maybe only a small one will actually do it and then to your point Aaron, they're the

first ones there.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I feel like I think part of it is people not really putting, you know, or companies,

not people, companies may be not prioritizing that because they don't have a Chris on

their board to help them understand what that vast opportunity looks like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chris, should it be an open marketplace, could whatever companies can survive and thrive

and just let them at it?

Well, here's the thing, like you're talking about exactly what I've been fighting in my

entire career to do, you know, before 2000, everything was just, are you Boeing?

Are you Lockheed?

Are you Northrop Grumman?

Are you Ball?

Are you a defense prime contractor doing X, Y and Z and a cost plus contract because

that's what all of my shareholders are demanding that I charge the government.

In the last five, six, seven years, we've had an explosion of companies where you had all

kinds of investment dollars from all over the place, from private equity, to venture

capitalists, and everything in between mom and pops, starting some of these, these great

space companies, some of them get bought up, some of them fail, some of them succeed.

You know, but everyone is trying to take their space in the vertical where they're still

looking around.

They're only a couple of competitors or other partners.

And the thing is when it comes to space, it's all integrated.

You can't have a rocket without a payload and you can't have a payload without a rocket.

You can't have humans going to space without a payload and a rocket.

And if you can't come back, you never fly and have at all.

That's where all these other secondary and tertiary economies are important because once

you establish these platforms, you can get into recycling and get into smelting.

You can now take all this crap, put it in a bin, melt it, turn it into an extruder element

and now you can 3D print in space.

And you don't have to bring up any material from Earth.

And that's the biggest economic driver.

And so trying to create these closed loop economic systems is what experts like myself

and others have been trying and working in our career at so that you can not only have

an economic justification, but you're going to have, you know, as you said, the public

policy rationale, what are you getting out of it?

And so for some people, it's being able to drive to work.

For other people, it's to be able to move money to my bank account and pay someone through

my Venmo.

For other people, it's to prevent a nuclear, it's a thermonuclear war.

Yeah, well, we're not trying to start any wars here.

We only want to do good, which means we've got to fix what we set out to fix.

And you know, it's hard to wrap up in a bullet point, but we'll just say that commercial

space travel that we have, we've all seen the celebrities and the billionaires equates

in the public's imagination, that's the tip of it.

It's the very public piece of it, but there's a lot more to it.

And there's a lot more room for companies and even small companies and even startup companies

that aren't as well funded to play along.

And what we would just hope is everyone who's there and there to play along is doing it

for the right reasons.

So let's just drill it down to two points in our fix.

Let's just say space, tourism, are we for it?

Are we for expanding it?

Should we be doing it?

And then that's number one, and number two, who leads the charge when it's tourism

and exploration and commercialization governments or private companies or a mix of both?

So tourism, yay or nay, and who's in charge governments, private sector, some of each

Melissa, what do you think?

Well, definitely I am for the tourism.

I think that's an exciting and, you know, it's the wave of the future.

That's what we're headed towards.

But I do think there are some caveats to that and that includes, you know, building clear,

safety, regulatory frameworks so that I feel safe and there's transparency and understanding

the data, you know, standardizing.

And I think this has already been said, Chris has done a really good job of explaining

the customer consent, you know, the client consent, the screening, the training and all

of that that goes into being able to participate in space flight.

I also would love to see, you know, in my mind from an operational perspective that we're

really focusing on strategically positioning ourselves in this post international space

station world.

And what that would mean is, Chris, you just mentioned there's so many people that are

in the space, but they need to partner together to understand how they can make sure that

everything that they're focused on and their mission is really fundamentally being supported

by all the different aspects and actors.

I mean, it's very interesting.

I loved how you said, like, you could get up there, but then where you, like, do you have

a place to stay, do you have, you know, what, what if you, you know, is there help, you

know, what happens?

If there's a medical emergency, you know, like those are all the ancillary areas of support

that need to happen when you, when you think about space travel.

Thanks.

Well, so, you know, space tourism thumbs up, thumbs down and who do we trust to take the

charge government or company?

I hope our listeners walk away from this conversation, understanding that space literally is for

everybody.

It is interconnected, we can bring a social just up to space one day because as Chris and

the listener and Aaron and we've shared in this conversation, it's interconnected.

You need to be able to learn from each other.

So yes, to space exploration is what I would call it.

I think with that exploration, there needs to be tied as most assured to an intention,

an intention for good and I would love to see every single company regardless of what

country you're coming from has a pledge to do good, whether do good for space and for

Earth.

So whether that is helping others who, again, that barrier of entry is money.

If you can put some dollars down so that we can allow space to be for everybody because

eventually you're going to need some psychologist up there and, you know, so what to help cook

in all of this too, like that's what we want to get to.

But space is R&D.

It's the same way you look at it for any business.

You need to invest in it so that you can go out there.

You need to work with the crisis of the world so that we can get to that point.

We need this.

We've established that.

Does it need to be run by the government?

I don't think so, but I think the government can definitely help bring wider accessibility

outside of it just being within a company.

So there's a need for both government and for private sectors.

And I think, yes, there's always going to be a first for someone.

But if that's your main position as just being the first without any of that intention

behind it, I think you'll fall flat as a business looking to be that.

So just keep that in mind as you're, you know, exploring what that can look like.

I think, you know, Chris, take us home, space tourism and exploration just keep, keep

it going.

Yeah, I think it's a little evolve.

I think space tourism will continue to evolve.

I think what's exciting about the future space tourism, as I mentioned, is that we could

be getting more movies.

We could get, you know, you could probably do an episode of this podcast on an axiom

station in the future.

So, you know, the cost is slowly coming down.

I mean, it may not see it when you're still talking tens of millions of dollars.

But from where it started, oh, that is, that is, that's actually kind of cheap.

You know, dreams do come true.

And a lot of it is, it's just, you have to ask, don't expect people to give it to you.

If you want to be part of this space community, go and do it.

You want to be a sociologist.

There's tons of, I can connect you with tons of sociologists in space.

They all do analog missions.

They go up to Canada.

They go to the badlands of South Dakota.

They go to Antarctica, like, oh, there's so much activity going on.

And if there's a way that we can, we can put it together, I know it's going to start from

this podcast.

Okay.

We're up for it.

So between Chris and marketing and operations and talent, we'll, we'll get you to space.

That's our promise to you.

That's going to close out our episode.

Our mission is over.

But before we go, I'd like to give another thanks to Christopher Hearsey for spending

the time with us.

Chris, how could everyone keep up with OSA consulting and then your nonprofit?

Yeah.

What OSA consulting part of the best way to contact me is on LinkedIn.

I do have a website, but I mostly just do everything through LinkedIn.

But I really would direct your audience to the YouTube channel that we have for Space

Court Foundation and our website.

Everything's there.

We've got a pilot podcast called The Space Bar Show.

We've got a pilot animated series, MOOC Court series called Soda Sises.

We've got fake space commercials.

But we also have actual hard research.

We have our big books of National Space Law, which is a companion of all the country's

space laws and regulations.

And we have the online database where you can search that.

We've got partnerships.

We've got internships.

So if you're an undergrad or a law student or a graduate student, master's PhD, you can

go to our website, spacecourtfoundation.org, found application.

And we are an interdisciplinary, multidisciplinary group, not everyone's a lawyer.

Everyone has different parts of this.

This is what's so great about space is it's so broad and inclusive.

You can't just silo engineers and the lawyers off.

And so this is what we do.

We promote space education in the rule of law.

And the rule of law bit is the most important bit here because none of these activities will

be sustainable if we don't agree on the rules moving forward.

And you know, you want to limit conflict and space.

And that's what I spend a lot of my time talking with people about is how do we not fight

and get in a war, you know, a little bit alone, get arrested by the space cops.

So these are all things that students today can think about and check out.

There's tons of stuff you can Google.

And finally, I guess I'll just end them and say thank you, Erin, Sheila, Melissa, it's

been great being a part of this conversation today.

And I hope we can have more in the future.

Thank you, Chris.

And thank you, Melissa and Chino.

And for all of you listening, thank you.

Mark my words.

There will be hotels on the moon.

So if you've been everywhere else, start saving up now.

If you want to underwrite us as the first podcast taping in space, we're up for it.

We'll do it.

Until then, stay grounded and we will see you next time.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It You're Welcome.

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