Interviews on 92.3 The Fan: March 9-13

0:00I'm Sarah Austin-Geness, the Moth's executive producer and longtime host of The Moth Podcast. Every week, we share true stories told live and without notes by real people from all walks of life. Stories about disastrous haircuts, may-december romances, photographing Pluto, fighting for justice, and so much more. Some stories make you laugh, some make you think, and many stay with you long after they're told. Discover the power of story. Follow and listen to The Moth wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about a new trend for me here recently. Yeah, I don't know. It's a good development. We'll get to that before the end of the hour. Are we at the lead coming up at five? We've also got Darryl Ryder celebrating the new league here coming up at six o'clock. But I was a half-hearted attempt. I want you to know what to really get into it. Let's play Darryl happy new league year. No one. That's a better version than the one earlier. No one can ever top that from Darryl.

1:01So I just I'll play second fiddle on this one time. People can give it their best effort. I've wanted to multiple times, but I've definitely made business decisions not to. Yeah, well, why don't you do it? You can't leave the show here. When you hear it, there's a real urge just to scream it out of the top of your lungs. And I've just resisted that all day. I just don't have that urge. But I do have the urge to go on to the make it right. Call Kyle Ryan Hotline, CBS sports NFL analyst Mike Renner joins us now. Mike, welcome to the show. Hey, fellas. Thanks for having me on. Well, it's great to have you here. Happy new league year. I wish we had hats to hand out. But this is the time of year where we do hand out the monokers winners or losers in free agencies to be better if there were monocles. Do you think the browns are closer to being winners or losers over the first three days in free agency? I mean, it's hard to call them a huge winner, right? I don't think this team is too much different than it was prior to. But I think the way they've rebuilt this offensive line is at least gives them a floor.

2:02So from that perspective, they were never going to be the winners coming out of this. But I think the moves they've made, they're all upgrades. And you at least have building blocks there to where this offensive line isn't going to be a complete disaster the way it was in 2025. OK, so you see a massive upgrade. Because in certain areas, I agree with you. And then I think about it. And I'm like, well, Potonio is better than the left guard will have now. Why you tell us better than the right guard will have now. Like the tackles are an obvious upgrade, but it's not, I don't know that it's easy across the board, while I also admitting that last year was one of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen. Mike. Yeah, I think that's it. It's just it was so bad, but they won't be done, right? I mean, this isn't just, they're going to be adding a bunch in the draft. It's a good draft to do so. I think day one, maybe number six overall might not get the guy you got at number six overall tackle last year. But I think there will be someone for them there. And then on day two, there's a lot of interior offensive lineman. So this might be it for free to see, but they're not done and dressing an offensive line. So it's interesting that we're talking about this because we've had the philosophical

3:02debate about wide receiver at six and tackle or offensive lineman at 24 or strike that and reverse it. I guess what it comes down for me is like, I don't want to, I don't say reach, but I don't want to pull a tackle up the board a little bit. If I might get a number one wide receiver at six, if the opposite is, I overdraft the left tackle. And then I'm drafting a number two wide receiver, maybe a 24, does that kind of make sense with where maybe we're going here in the draft? Yeah, I just think this draft, though, again, at number six, I don't think there's either a surefire starting tackle or a surefire number one wide receiver is I think the biggest thing you're running into is that they're between six and 24 at both positions. It might not be that huge, but I think it probably gets a little bit bigger when you talk off at the tackle just because I think there's at least a few guys in this class that you feel safe about their prospects of being a starter in the NFL. And I do just think this wide receiver class gets a little bit deeper into the 20s and

4:02then into day two. Oh, so if it's Carnival Tate at six, let's say that you, that's not an A grade for you. I think it's not, I think he's a great player. I just don't think this is, you know, the wide receiver, they traditionally go that highly in the draft. I think just profile out to a little bit better than the top of this year's wide receiver class. It's, again, not a knock. It's just, you know, he's heteromic mill and went eighth overall last year, right? I have heteromic mill. It's considerably higher grade than I do Carnival Tate. So that's just where I see this year's class at that position. I just don't think it's going to be that big of a difference maker year on year to what you traditionally get at number six. Mike, I, I'm just going to lead with all my opinions and then I'll have you react to that. The interviews going, sorry, I, I am a little, I'm a little worried that everyone's just been quick to normalize Shadour versus Dishon Watson. I would like competition in that room for Shadour because I don't ever want to see Dishon play for the Browns ever again.

5:02But it does seem like everybody's just cool with this playing out. How do you kind of view the Browns quarterback room and where they should go from here? Well, don't forget Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel can be in that mix too. I think I forgot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can see why, but I just overlooked him. I do think that you do. I do think though this quarterback class, I just might get overlooked. It's not, I know that was, that was going to, it's just not a good quarterback class. And so I would not waste one of those first round picks on QB2 in this class just because you need it that desperately. It just doesn't seem like the year that QB2 is going to amount to much. So I would hold off if you wanted draft one on day three, by all means, throw one more body into that mix, but this is a roster that has too many other holes to just go searching for that next guy when you're already kind of did that just last year. One thing I like talking about people on yourself that know that basically every player and all the stories attached to every one of them in a way that is just very in depth is that sometimes you guys have fun stories or fun thoughts about these guys.

6:05So if I say Zion Johnson, Tevin Jenkins, Elton Jenkins, Titus Howard, out of those fours or any one of them that you gravitate towards as seeing as either a big possibility for the Browns or maybe a head scratcher for the Browns is how we got here. I think the most interesting one is Elton Jenkins because if you recall, there was a time where Elton Jenkins was the starting left tackle for the Green Bay Packers. And he was pretty darn good at left tackle and they moved him inside out of necessity. And the fact that they had actually a surplus of tackles at one point, but would not surprise me if he is starting at left tackle for the Cleveland Browns next year just because one that improves his sort of career prospects, that improves his longevity and money-making potential. And two, because he might just be the best guy. So I think that's the most interesting one. Is that Elton Jenkins, he's played all five positions in the NFL and he's done them pretty well. Have the need to left tackle. That seems like the one position where he could be used. Mike, I'm curious your read on the Ravens pulling a plug in the Max Crosby deal.

7:09I think a lot of people look at this as Max Crosby and Trey Hendrixson as a one for one, but it's interesting. I think Max is the better football player. So if we say how much they get worse, the Ravens did from going from Max Crosby to Trey Hendrixson. What would your answer be? Yeah, I think it's a good amount. I don't think it's two first round picks amount though, is a calculus that they were doing. I don't think they thought Hendrixson would be available at the price point they got him at. And I think that may have played a factor. Now, there are a lot of things he say, it's where up and down that that wasn't, but I mean, Trey Hendrixson, everyone thought I think he was going to go for a lot more. And for him, like I said, he's not much, he's worse than Max Crosby. He's not the all-around player Max Crosby. He's two years older than Max Crosby. But Trey Hendrixson, two first round picks, is a lot better from a team building perspective than Max Crosby and no first round picks, so I think that's where they were at with that decision. What do you think the price tag on Max Jones will end up being?

8:10And should the Browns be in on it? I don't see how it's any higher than a third, and even that seems rich to me. I get that he can be effective in the NFL, but a lot of guys could be effective with Kyle Shanahan. We've seen that historically, and a lot of them were not effective with anyone else as their play caller. So you're just taking a big risk to get a guy like Max Jones with, I'd say, very little reward. This isn't like a Malik Willis situation where the guy has insane tools. We know Max Jones tools. We've seen that two other spots. It didn't work out. I think it's safe to say that if he were to go to Cleveland, he wouldn't just have what he had in San Francisco. So my pitch would be like a fourth round pick in Dylan Gabriel for Max Jones. I feel like because they get a long term backup and a high, what is a day, three pick, what do you think about that trade? Yeah, I would be all for that from the Browns perspective. Yes, that's the guy who has, you know, again, I'm not convinced he's going to replace

9:10what he did in San Francisco, but he's got a higher floor than should do our standards, right? We're even just Sean Watson at this point. And from the four and I are suspective though, I'm not sure they say yes, given Brock Perties. I think they got hurt last year, given how well Max Jones played, given how cheap he is to them. I think they would probably ask for a little bit more. So I wonder if he does just stay as a backup there. We've debated past couple of days about like what a better situation is for Kyler Murray if it's the Vikings, is it the Browns? What's your read on Kyler Murray in this free agency and how it seems like he's destined to go to Minnesota? Yeah, I think that's the best landing spot. Not only for the Vikings, but like he needs to resurrect his career, right? And we've seen Minnesota and what they've done with pretty much everyone, not named Jason McCarthy. It's made them look a lot better than they probably are. So that feels like for all parties involved the most likely in landing spot. The only thing is can they guarantee him a starting role there or they're going to say you're for sure our starter because if I'm Kyler, that's kind of one thing you would

10:12really want considering how in demand you'll be if that you don't want to go somewhere and be a backup because then your earning potential goes way down if that's the case. So I think my big question is, and I haven't heard a lot of talk around this, but you're such a darn good football guy. Maybe you're the guy that kind of put this to the other guys who've been more pocket guys. I know Kyler can play from the pocket, but I feel like when he played in the Drew Petsing offense, which is a derivation of the Stofansky offense, all the on schedule stuff took away some of the playmaking that Kyler did early in his career that I think made him more of a of a of a boom quarter back. And I feel like he would be doing not exactly the same thing, but similar stuff in Minnesota where and maybe a more wide open offense, a la Todd Monkin. I feel like that's maybe actually a better football fit, even if that didn't come with Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and Kevin O'Connell. Yes, he's the ladder is kind of important. It doesn't ski, ski mulligan gets you so far, and I think one thing is the Stofansky or

11:13not. With the New Year upon us, there's no better time to take control of your finances. Follow and listen to Jill on Money, wherever you get your podcasts. It's the six o'clock out. Someone step on a duck on afternoon drive. One hour to go, Nick Wilson, Jonathan Peterland back on afternoon drive. In case you missed it coming up in about 40 minutes time there, we continue to enjoy all the NFL breaking news. Calvin Austin signing a one year deal with the giants after a little run there in Pittsburgh on a four and a half million dollar deal. So the signings, although they are not as bound to full as they were two days ago, continue to come in there and to talk about the Browns moves so far. The shop season time at the quarterback room. We head out to the make it right call Kyle Wright hotline and welcome on as we do every single Thursday at six o'clock, Lance Ryzen, Cleveland.com and 92, three, the fan coach,

12:19welcome to the show. Absolutely. Thanks for having me guys. What's going on? Not a whole lot. What's up, coach? What's going on, JP? Not much. Nick was making fun of me earlier because I got out for the first time on Sunday. I went out to sleepy hollow and I got my ass kicked, coach. It didn't go well. That's a start though. I know. That's a tough start. I know. But I've been thinking about it all week and Nick says I need to get over it. I mean, you just jumped right down to the honors course. What are we doing here? I mean, you got to get loose, got to get loose a little before you hit back nine or front nine? No, front nine. Yeah. Oh boy. That's a tough start. So yeah, you got out. That's the key. That's the win. You got out. Tell him what's supposed to look at it. But for some reason, I just, I can't and I felt bad. I didn't want to tell you all week long. Yeah, you know, you get so excited all winter long coach to get out there and play. And then the opportunity comes and then you just, I got to be better, coach. You will. You just got to get back on the horse. There's no, there's no stress. It's early. It's early golf. It doesn't, it doesn't count until until the end of March. So you're good. And now there's a way to look at it. It doesn't count until the end of March. I just keep doing it. Kind of like how I'm going to take the quarterback room until they unless they had a quarterback

13:23before then. All right, coach. Let's look at the beginning of this. I know you've sent me over a couple of scouting reports here. Let's start with the offensive line. How much better do you think the offensive line is after the four editions they've made? Well, I think they did a great job. And here's, here's why I think so. I've trying to explain this to people because they've had some all four of these guys have had grades up and down on pff and other, how other people grade. Here's what I look at when I watch them on film. I see guys who understand, so understand the game. What I mean by that is you got a guy like Brown fans and myself included have been kind of spoiled with guys like Wyatt Teller and Antonio and even caught them when he was healthy. Guys that just physically knock you down and then they had chub, which, you know, in the NFL, you're figuring out ways how to block the seventh and eighth guy in the box. Brown team care. They blocked everybody up front and chub ran through everybody. So now they were able to do that because those guys are so physical. These guys are physical, but more than that, they're guys who have really good feet. They take good steps.

14:24They understand leverage. They understand where the linebackers are supposed to be. They understand fronts, coverages, how they're tied into the linebackers. So it's a very smart offensive line, which makes sense because Munkin, not only with the skill guys, but with the line and their week to week. Some weeks are going to be more gap scheme. If they're facing a pressure front, some, some weeks are going to be more zone if they get guys who want a two gap and play the line of scrimmage. So I think they did mean great. I think the guys, you know, they're not going to wow. They will buy vertically, dispacing everybody, but there's going to be a lot of guys with the hats on the defender's hats and you won't have as many run-throughs. Coach, I think the versatility is interesting with all these guys. They can play all sorts of different positions across the offensive line. But it also then kind of begs the question of where are these guys going to play. We had Mike Renner on yesterday. He was making the case that Elton Jenkins could be a left tackle. So give me, give me the, and then put to Juan Jones in the mix. Give me your as of right now, assuming Betonio is just retired or on a different team. Give me your left to right. What do you got?

15:25Well, you got to go Howard at the right tackle. Then you go, what, Zion at one of the tackles, then you go Jenkins at the center. Then you got to go, I think you got to go to Juan Jones at the left tackle. And then I'm not sold on Kevin Jenkins yet, but I like him if he stays inside at guard. I think he's got a much better chance. So I'll go Kevin Jenkins at the other guard. All right, coach. They also added Quincy Williams, longtime NFL linebacker off the Jets here. He's going to replace Devon Bush who went to sign with the Bears. What do you make of this linebacker free agency trade for the Browns? Well, a lot of people have pushed back on me because I think this was incredible. First of all, to get a guy that matches your scheme after replacing a guy, I was really, really high on Devon Bush. I thought he had a great year. And early in the week, I tweeted out, this could be a loss for both sides because Devon Bush to me played really well and he earned his money. And I never take money out of people's pockets and regardless of what they do. So he earned what he got, but you always have to be careful when you go to a scheme

16:29that maybe doesn't fit you. And this idea of these linebackers running downhill, cleaning up with the defensive line kind of made the mess they made is really was really good for Devon Bush. It got him a big contract. Now, I say this is what I'll hesitation as much as I like Devon Bush. If Quincy Williams, there's a lot tied into people like he got benched last year. That's a really bad defense. Came back from injury. There's a whole bunch of things that tie into it. But this is a guy that comes off the edge very well. He's very good in coverage, better in zone coverage than man. But this is a guy who plays with his hair on fire. So two things are going to happen. One, it could be a cheaper contract, but it might be an upgrade. And I say that, I don't say that lightly because I really like Devon Bush. But this is a guy that I've broken down on film for years and I really, really like him. So if you can play like he has in the past, not last year, Browns could have themself a steal. The other thing he does is he's kind of the emotional leader. And as incredible as Carson Swesinger was and will be, it's nice to have another guy next to you that can take some of that leadership responsibility off you. Another guy that could put the green dot on if necessary.

17:32Another guy that can be the vocal guy. Another guy can get guys lined up if they're struggling against fronts and coverages and all that kind of stuff to you. All the calls you have to make as a linebacker. So I think that really will improve Carson even more, even though I think he's going to be an all pro as soon as this year. I think it's even going to help him. So I really like and I like how fast they did it. And you know, I'm hard on Andrew Berry and some of the stuff he does. But I thought that was we lost a guy who was really good in this scheme. Let's get another guy that's really good in this scheme. And so I like to pick up a lot. Yeah, coach, he's the only new addition to the defense as far as a starter is concerned as of right now. When you look at this defense though, are we going to have any other changes? Or do you feel like this is about going to be it and then you supplement through the draft? Well, you know, here's a thing. And I think is Ronnie Hickman the answer at free safety? That would be my only thing if they're going to stick with the one high hat. Is Ronnie Hickman the guy that you trust back there? I think he tackles. Well, I think he's played great. But that position has to create more turnovers for me. That position has to be the last line of defense making sure you're making tackles,

18:33making sure you're covering over the top and man coverage. If one of your guys gets a bad matchup, you got to recognize those things. If they think he's the guy and they tender them, then yeah, I think that's pretty set. However, if there's a guy like Caleb Downs who's available at six, I think you got to take a look at it because there's a guy that now it makes the defense scary good. So I don't know. I think they can't be done and I'm not sure they would take Caleb Downs. But if they believe in what Ronnie Hickman's doing and they want to keep, you know, to help it down in the box more like they have, I think that defense is going to be outstanding this year early too. And they're going to have to be coach a fair amount of people who didn't like design Johnson signing, quote, his overall 57 PFF grade from the 2025 season, which was the lowest of his career. When you put on the tape for Zion Johnson, what caliber guard do you think the Browns added? I think they got a really good guard. But again, it's not a, it's not a Wyatt tele guard or a Joel Patonio guard guys who

19:34just physically take the three technique and knock him backwards. This is a guy that says the ball's going here. I need to step with this foot, make sure my pads are right. So he's technically sound. The other thing that he does at a very high level, he understands what defenses are trying to do based on the front. So if they come up in a forefront, he knows that if there's a three technique that backers in charge of a, and you can see it on film, especially with blitzes and things like that. Now he has struggled with some twists inside and some movement things. But again, that's getting coached up and you got to think a guy like Warhop thinks he can help with that because a lot of times when you're missing twists or you're missing backers run free, that's not, that's not athletic ability. That's just understanding what, what you're trying to get accomplished on the off inside the ball. And coaches, we feel that we can correct that. But I like the fact that fundamentally how sound he is, how with the pad level, he plays that most of the time, the footwork he uses. The idea of, you know, they talked about playing right and left guard and I've had a lot of people talk, you know, you just can't make a right tackle, left tackle. No, there's different footwork. But if you understand what you're doing, a double team is a double team.

20:36If you understand what you're doing, you understand getting to the mic backers, getting to the mic backers. So there's that flexibility. I think he's a really good pick up. I think with Warhop, he could be a guy that could be really good. We'll see moving forward because I was wrong on Cornelius Lucas because he was really good in Washington and then really struggled with the Browns. So obviously it's good on film. Now they got to come in and prove it. If we see it right now, three new guys of the line, Johnson Jenkins Howard. Let's say Tevin is the right guard and Dewan is the left tackle for right now, at least. How hard is that to make that many new additions and try to make it all work seamlessly and do it for week one? Well, I think the one of the things that people have said that I think is you got to be really, really careful about is look what Chicago did. What Chicago did was an outlier, you know, the quarterbacks who can play under six foot. The linebackers can play under six foot, you know, all those outliers, you've seen those guys be successful, but there's very, very few of them. What Chicago did with their offensive line is very, very rare. Those guys were good and they were good real fast. So there's going to be a little bit of a learning curve.

21:36Now, I think what helps the Browns is with hot munkin, he's not focused on what they don't do, what they do poorly. He's focused on what they do well. So that helps in what they're, you know, kind of minimizing some of their weaknesses, but the thing that's really going to help them is they're going to have an identity. Their identity is we're going to maximize what we do well and we're going to attack what the defense does. So again, if it's a gap, if they were facing the Browns, like Munkin did, we're going to trap them and counter them and crunch them. If we're facing a team that plays a line of scrimmage, we're going to double them. So it's kind of maximizing the strength and having an identity because really what an identity is for me, it's not what you run, it's what you can fix. And that's what Munkin and Warhop do well, these older coaches, that's what I love about them is that they stick to what they do because they can fix it when things go wrong. All right, Coach, after a couple of moves in free agency, have your thoughts on what the Browns can do at six and 24 changed? Yeah, they have. So if you're asking me what I would do, I would still take a game changer.

22:38And last week I heard what I was jumping the car and JP was like, you were saying to about Jeremiah Love. And what I mean by guys like Jeremiah Love and guys like Caleb Downes, these are guys that changed the direction of a football game. So now that you've improved this offensive line, if you can go out and you can get, let's say, Rashid Walker. You somehow that happened or whatever, you get a left tackle that you're confident. Then I think you take the game changer at six. And if you think that game changer, you need an offensive guy. I've seen Jeremiah Love run routes. To me, Jeremiah Love is a touch guy. So people are like, we have judgments, but don't think of them as a tailback. Think of a guy like Jeremiah Love as a touch guy. He's a guy. Great hands can do multiple things. We're just going to figure out which Munkin does very well. Players over plays. How we can maximize this guy. But then if you take a guy like that or down to six, then I think you've got to try to trade down. And I think you've got to go get my road-freeling. And if you stay back, then you've got to take a guy like Max Yannachor from Arizona State.

23:39But the more I watch Freeling and knowing how raw he is, he's going to be, I think, a really special left tackle. So maybe taking that game changer and then figuring out how to get moved down a little bit and take my road-freeling. So if you come out of here, you guys will get endless texts for me if they went Caleb Downes and came back and got my road-freeling. I think that's an outstanding early draft. All right, coach. I will tell you, I think JP's getting ready to burger bet you because he's got the Jones in. And so if you want to start dreaming stuff up, I think you've got maybe somebody to take you up on that action. Oh, we got some action, all right? You any early thoughts, JP, what you're thinking here? You can take Caleb Downes. I'll take the field at number six overall. That's always in place. That's dirty pool. Oh, you're going to give me one guy versus in there. That's more than 30 pool. That's like sewage water. But still. That's the current standing offer. All right, what about Caleb Downes and Monroe Freeling versus the field? No, because Monroe Freeling still satisfies my offensive side of the ball thing, which I think after this, after this little week here, coach, I feel like more and more people

24:40are going to actually go towards your game changer side of thing and they're going to move off of my offense and stop thinking about the defense. Trying to sell you coach. Don't buy it. I know. I appreciate that. You're trying to. He's not budgeting. I'll give you Jeremiah Love too. I'll give you David Downes and Jeremiah Love and I'll take the field. How about this? What about what about what about what about what I'm doing? I'm doing it. What about tackle or you? No, no, no, no. Why are you in the corner? Quiet in the corner for a second. I'm just trying to help coach. I, I, I, I, I, Caleb Downes, Jeremiah Love and I'll take the field. If you get, I'll say that. So put it on. We'll put it on night here. You get me Monroe Freeling. No, three. I'll give you the field. No, that doesn't work for you. All right. Well, what about you take tackle or wide receiver and then coach gets anybody else? No, because if they make a trade for like AJ Brown tomorrow, then all of a sudden, I'm just, I'm just out. I'm just, I'm just sitting over here, just hanging out. Way to stand behind your scruples there, Jonathan. It's not standing by my scruples. You don't get to win burger bets, which I've never done, by the way. That's true. By just, just, you know, adhering to every demand that people across from me make.

25:40But you don't win at life by trying to turn one of our good friends into a show. No, I see you doing up of this and what this, how this works. I got to put myself in an advantageous situation and I've not done nearly, nearly well enough of a job of that. Wide receiver at six or the field is advantageous as it gets. Giving him Caleb Downs or Jay, what Jeremiah love and telling him to put his money where his mouth is with these game changers. That's that's where that's where it's really that's where it's right. Why one percent one more guy? One percent you think it's going to happen. You think it's Caleb Downs? Do you think it's Jeremiah love? All right, all right. Fine. Give me, uh, you want one more? Who else do you feel really good about? I'm real feeling none of the groups. We're not doing that on the board. That's come on. What are we doing here? Childs play. All right. Coach, keep working on it. But don't agree to anything until you're back on with us because he is. No, this is a very shiny room for your corner is all that's happening here. I don't appreciate it. I don't appreciate it. I don't appreciate what's happening. I'm excited and unfair. All right, coach, be good. Thanks coach. See you guys. See you guys. Lance Reislin on the make it right. Call Kyle Ryan hotline. Give us plenty to think about.

26:42What's up little psychos. I'm investigator slater host of the psychopedia podcast. Psychopedia is a true crime podcast. Delivering raw, real, and absolutely gripping episodes every single week. I dig deep to uncover fascinating details of heinous true crime cases while exploring criminology and psychology theories. I take you into the absolute darkest corners of the human psyche, my favorite territory, and present cases like you've never heard them before. Follow and listen to psychopedia everywhere you get your podcasts. Just what the hell are them browns going to do after all these moves and this free agency? How much flexibility do they have at that number six pick? How much flexibility do they have at 24? It could they do the impossible and take Alabama's Thai Simpson. Nathan Ziger are going to answer all of them questions after this. But first, 92 through the fan is looking for a winner. Enter the code battle. That's B-A-T-T-L-E at 92 through the fan dot com before 10 a.m. For your chance, 20 pair of tickets to the Mac men's semi finals this Friday.

27:44That's today at 5 p.m. at Rocket Arena. Tickets at rocket arena dot com away. We go. Nathan Ziger joins us browns radio analysts. He's on the make it right. Cocoa right hotline. He has a senior broadcaster analyst. All those things. He's wonderful. And he joins us. Hello, Nathan. Hello, Canada's great to be with you. How you doing, brother? Doing well. Doing very well. Hopefully we're going to be doing even better. You know, they address the offensive line. I'm open minded. You know, I'm afraid of free agent offensive lineman. But it was moves you had to make. So this is the business we've chosen. They made him. Hopefully they're going to work out. Who are you most excited about with the offensive lineman that they're bringing in here? I think it's just a combination of all of them because the Browns needed to get new starters on the offensive line. A complete overhaul. And so you bring it tight as Howard who's been a very, very good pass blocker throughout his career. A guy that I talked to this week who said, you know, he's going to come in and be the right tackle for the Cleveland Browns. You bring in Zion Johnson who former first round pick, much like Titus Howard, a former

28:46first round pick who maybe hasn't reached his full ceiling yet in his time with the chargers. But the Browns have George Warhop here and one of the things that George Warhop is known for is getting the best out of young offensive lineman and Zion Johnson. There's been a very good run blocker in his time here in the National Football League. He will play one of the guard positions. Elton Jenkins can play guard or center. I think you look at his career. He's probably been better as a guard moving to center last year really for the first time in his career. About 80 to 80 plus percent of the snaps he's ever played in the NFL had been at guard even some a little bit at tackle. But was a two time pro-buller at guard there for the Green Bay Packers and now an opportunity to give you some guard center flexibility there. Luke Whippler is somebody that the Browns are still high on internally. So maybe he could be the center Jenkins could be at one guard and then Kevin Jenkins you bring back. You know, if you look at it this way, you could say right now we could roll out there with four starters. And Kevin Jenkins at one guard, Zion Johnson at the other, Elton Jenkins at center and Titus Howard at right tackle, Whippler and Dewan Jones coming back from injuries obviously

29:48for the Browns. And I don't think they're done there. But it's really more the collective of the group, right? As long as you can have no real weak links on your offensive line, your offensive line can play solidly. And we have seen in the past when we had the luxury of having Bill Callahan here that when you have an offensive line coach of that ilk and I'm not saying George Warhop is Bill Salaham but George Warhop is certainly very well regarded. Joe Thomas certainly sings his praises. Todd Munkin wanted to bring him with him from Baltimore and Titus Howard who actually was coached by Warhop in 22 in Houston said that he was the best offensive line coach he's had. And really he thought George or George Warhop is where his career took a turning point for the better. So you're excited about the fact that now the Browns actually have an offensive line. Still one more piece that left tackle obviously to fill in and that's a big one. But there are a bevy of ways to do that. I think the longer that Rashid Walker stays on the free agent market, the longer or the better chance certainly that there is an opportunity for him to be available at a better price

30:50than you may have thought. And then obviously in the draft the Browns will have the opportunity to get a left tackle. Do you think that that left tackle thing is going to be something they want to address at six in the draft? You think they could trade back there is at a 24 spot. What do you think draft wise is the most likely outcome for that? Yeah, I think it's just going to depend. I think it's going to depend on just the way that things flow and how they view in their grades that tears between the wide receivers, between the wide receivers and the offensive line. And because if there is a tackle that they think it's sick, it's head and shoulders better than anybody else that they could get, then they'll probably take them there. Now if they go out and they sign Rashid Walker, now that changes everything I think in the draft. You're still going to want a tackle for the future, but you might be saying, okay, at 24 with Blake Milorotic Clemson, who's a guy that a lot of people like, we can be a little more patient. I think Monroe Freeling projects as the most true left tackle in this draft. The question is, he's been a late riser. He sees somebody that rises all the way up to number six.

31:50When I was at the combine, you know, he talked about the 2020 draft that had the four big left tackles in it, Andrew Thomas, McCuy Beckton, Jed Willes, and Tristan Worst, two of whom have now become, you know, mega stars. And one of whom in McCuy Beckton played on the Super Bowl team and he's moved into Garb, so it's been a very good pro that nobody in this draft classes of those guys level. Now that's always projection. They get things wrong all the time. I'm on Rob St. Brown, went in the fourth round. So that's one of the areas you have to look at. And then you look at your team and you say, what impacts us the most right now? What impacts us the most? We know we're going to need help on that line, but boy, we sure do need weapons. And as Ken knows, I've been banging that drum for years and years and years. So are you better off with a carnell Tated Six and then getting a tackle like Blake Miller 24? Are you better off going with freelling at six? And then there's a group of wide receivers who could potentially be there at 24 Jordan Tyson, if his medicals push him down, that you're talking about Denzel Boston from Washington, Omar Cooper from Indiana, there are plenty of receivers that could be there as well. So those are the calculations they make. I don't think anything's off table. And I also don't think if they were to sign Walker who's still out there in free agency

32:52to be their tackle. I don't think that preclude them from taking a left tackle early in this draft either. Well, I think what it does, you know, there's a lot of flexibility. I'm trying to open my mind. I mean, there's for a long time, you know, I've warned against trying to move guys around, but I think that there's some flexibility there. And also, you know, I agree with you, Nathan, I don't think it stops him from drafting a guy and then going, okay, just like a lot of QBs, I don't need to start you week one. I don't need to plug you and play you because we might have some flexibility there. We can let you get your bearings here in the NFL because Nathan, you know better than anybody here. There's a huge difference and it's growing even more so when it comes to college offenses and when it comes NFL offenses here. I absolutely and I think that's one of the reasons why you see some of those learning curves and you know, they say tight end, you know, can be one of the more challenging positions to come in. And Harold Bannon did an incredible job in his rookie year as certainly as a task catcher, but some of the nuances in the blocking schemes and the things that people are asked to do in the NFL, those things take time to adjust to and kind of what you're asking even an offensive

33:56tackle to do in college when it's so much quick game, whereas in the NFL, it's not quite as much quick game. There's a lot more complexities, a lot more nuance to what you're doing, not only in your passets, to your runsets and then of course, there's also the under center play action component that is a huge part of generating explosives in the national football league. There really isn't a huge part of college football and it's not part of, you know, these guys, okay, let's really sell this run action here. Like when Kyle Shanahan was here where everything had to look the same, sell this run action, but it's actually a pass. So there are a lot of things for these offensive linemen to learn. I do think for the Browns, though, if they get to the point where let's say, let's say Luke Whitpler Chan started center and he got Elton Jenkins and Zion Johnson are your guards. Kevin Jenkins now becomes your swing guard, which is great. Elton Jenkins has the ability to move in as your backup center. Juan Jones who when healthy has played very well for the Cleveland Browns over the years, you know, he's now your swing tackle. All of a sudden, you say to yourself, this is way better depth than we've ever had with the Cleveland Browns. Like guys who have started ready to step in.

34:56This is a huge year, my opinion, for Zach dinner, like we have got to see something for Zach's dinner. Zach dinner was drafted in the third round to be the succession plan for Wyatt Peller or Joe DeTonio. That is not materialized. He wasn't even active a lot last year. So George Warock got his work cut out there, but Zach dinner is somebody that you need to step up. And if you can get Katie Leviston, who at least played some games where he left here, all of a sudden we have at least some depth and then it gives you the flexibility to be maybe more patient with a younger player or to say, you know, we're going to throw him in there. If it doesn't work, we give an opportunity to slide somebody else and get him kind of reset and go from there. But I've been arrested for agency to necessarily change what the Browns do in that first round. I do think, let's say they do sign Walker and now you've got your full starting offensive line set. You know, maybe that gives you the flexibility to say, you know what, we think Caleb Downs is a transcendent player and we would take Caleb Downs. But I really think for the Browns, the first three picks have got to come down to most likely are receiver and two offensive line and one on the outside, one on the inside.

35:59Because even though you've added all these pieces, you still need air appearance and you need people who are going to be able to take over for Elton Jank and long term answer. Four tightest hours is probably not a long term answer and have that succession planning in place. Given what the quarterback room looks like right now, what level of interest do you think the Browns should have in adding somebody in the draft to that room? I think I look, you're always until you have the solution, you don't. So you should always be searching for it. I think right now it's a, you know, Dishon Lawson, Shadour Sanders competition to be the starting for back to the Cleveland Browns. I do think I, you know, could I Simpson be somebody that really intrigues them that they think is, you know, a real likely answer possibly, possibly would I be surprised if you was taken in the first round in this draft by the Cleveland Browns? Yes, I would, but that doesn't mean it could not happen. What I think is more likely is that a guy like Drew Aller, whom the Browns were very, very high on.

36:59And in fact, I think had Drew Aller come out last year, may have played a better game against Notre Dame, comes out. I think there's a good chance that Drew Aller is the Cleveland Browns. So these somebody that now they would look at a year later and say, okay, yeah, he had that injury. And I think that's one of the things that Penn State that went on perhaps those offenses, the system that they had there, maybe it's not all his fault, but we liked that ball of clay. Plus he would, you know, obviously the hometown stuff doesn't matter at all in reality. But if somebody who understands this franchise understands this organization, but I could see them taking a flyer on Drew Aller in the third or the fourth round and saying, okay, here's another guy that we have, we really liked, we were very high on a year ago, that maybe he has the tools, he has the size, he has the arm, he has all of it to become the answer for us a quarterback. So that's, to me, it's much more likely that they take a shot on a guy like that in the mid rounds than it is that they go for a quarterback early in this draft. Nathan's a good joining us on the show. I have my reservations, none of it's Drew Aller's fault.

38:00I got my reservations. I also have reservations about Tyson Simpson. I know he's very good with the anticipatory throws, some of the, some of the highlights have been fantastic. I think he's tough, but he's kind of brittle in so many ways, got banged up a lot. They started much. Yeah, got banged up a lot this last year. How much, how much interest do they really have in a guy like that, because that's not just like taking a flyer on a guy, that's a big investment. Right. And I just don't think that the Browns are at that point in this draft where that somebody is compelling them, this is a, you know, look, the reality is this is a very quarterback meaty league. And the error, let's take the Arizona Cardinals, for example, who picked before the Cleveland Browns. If there was a quarterback that they really thought could be the answer in this draft, they're taking him. And nobody's even talking about that. So it doesn't feel like, and that's not to say that a quarterback drafted in this draft can end up being a good starter, but there isn't somebody that is going to become compelling teams in the top six to take a quarterback.

39:01And so how does that, what does that look like, how does that shake out? We'll see. It obviously takes a gamble on Tyson's in at some point, because that's what this league is all about. It's finding that quarterback. And then if you can get a quarterback, you're in a much better place as a franchise than you are without one. I do think in a sense about Drew Allen, there are plenty of guys in this draft that were two years ago, thought of very, very highly like this was supposed to be the year when you had Nessemire and Clubnick and Carson back and all of those guys. So we'll see you take a shot on them. Yes. The calculus that you asked away is you can say, okay, yeah, we're taking a shot in the third or the fourth round. But those for our team right now, those are picks that probably have to be contributors. And so are we in a position in the fourth round, maybe sure, because the percentage of that pick working out is we know what it is. But those third round picks are valuable. And we use the third round pick on a quarterback last year that a lot of people think it could be a very nice backup in this league, but not necessarily a long-term starter in this

40:03league. It would be judicious with those picks as well, given where we are as a roster and all the needs that we have certainly on the offensive side of the ball. And, you know, probably some succession planning, as I like to call it, on the defensive side of the ball that's needed. One minute. I have to ask this question. I think you and I are going to agree, though. What would you say if Andrew Barry and the Browns did what Eric DeCosta and the Ravens did earlier this week with the Max Crosby deal? I'm just glad that is not a scenario that I would have to entertain or try to go on my various radio shows. And I thought that was shady. Do I think that it was probably the right move at the end of the day for the Ravens? Yeah, probably. They were able to get a guy who maybe is not quite as good as Max Crosby, but they're going to pay him similar money and keep their two ones after they got pillage and free agency. It's just, and I go back to it like if somebody pulled something like that and your fantasy football, you throw them out of the league and people will be pissed.

41:04I think it's shady. I don't think it's, I don't think that it was, you would have a very difficult time convincing me that this was simply what it was that he just failed the physical. I think they thought Trey Hendrickson was going to be off the market or certainly cost a lot more. They didn't get involved with Trey Hendrickson until Crosby was there, so the idea that they wanted to pair them together really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think it just is what it is and there's no punishment that should be, can be handed out. It should be, and I think it's going to be how some of these things are done because it's just, it wasn't fair to the Raiders, honestly, the way that it all went down. So, I'm glad that it didn't happen at the, if you're just an isolation, take a motion out of or take right and wrong or morality out of it, it was probably a smart move by the Baltimore Ravens, but that doesn't make it feel any better or seem like something that should be happening in the NFL. Nathan, I'm surprised. I can't wait to talk about this in five minutes. Nathan, thank you so much for the time, my friend. All the best. All right, you got it. Thank you. Nathan Ziggur, a Brown Senior Radio Analyst on the Make It Right Call, Call Right Hotline.

42:08I got it. I like it. I like it. It's shady. It's greasy business. If it happened with my team, I'd be celebrating. We'd be playing, we'd be playing Michael Stanley. I'm telling you why in five minutes on the fan. It's Thursday, it's eight, twenty two, it's time for Mary Kaye. She's on the Make It Right Call, Call Right Hotline, a Mary Kaye cabin at the Cleveland point here at Cleveland.com. Hello, Mary Kaye. Hello, guys. What are you doing? We're doing wonderful. Jason is in for Anthony today, Jason Lloyd. Lace enjoyed as I want to call him. He eats breakfast sandwiches in a German made automobile. He's a pig in every sense of the word, however, Mary Kaye, you are wonderful. And we thank you very much for your time. You said Andrew Berry aced the assignment to address this offensive line. Take us through because that's a strong acing the assignment is a strong, strong word. Well, they needed to throw some bodies at this and they needed to throw some money at

43:12it and he accomplished that. Now, how it all works out in the end and how all of the pieces fit together, we'll see how that goes, but it's not easy to land a starting tackle in the NFL of veteran tackle. So he did accomplish that with the trade for Titus and then just all of the other pieces. I mean, he got starters all across the board and there will be some competition for some spots. But if they had to play a game tomorrow, they could feel the pretty decent offensive line. How has what they've done dictate what they're going to do at six or did they already know and that is what allowed them to set the course? I don't know if I asked that properly. Sir, I'm saying. Yeah. No, I know exactly what you're saying. And I don't think it really changes the strategy too much. I do think that they will still look very strongly at left tackles or tackles in the draft and you have to do that. You have to restock those positions. So they don't really necessarily have their starting left tackle of the future just yet

44:17unless Dewan Jones comes back really healthy and proves that he can be that guy. So I think they will look at Spencer Fano and Friedling and all the guys that we ended up talking to at the con by. Mary Kay Cavitt joining us here on the make it right, coca right, hotline. What do all these deals mean maybe for the future of Joel Batonio in a bronze uniform? Well, it seems to suggest that Joel might not be coming back but the book has not been closed yet on that. They're giving him the time that he needs. He's already decided he's not coming back. That's what it seemed like as they just kept signing one guy after another, but you just never know when you put a little bit of time and distance between your aches and pains in the end of the season, sometimes you decide that maybe you can coax one more season out of your body. So we'll have to see how it goes. They really could use them for a number of reasons, including trying to be the glue that can hold together a completely new offensive line and serving almost as a coach in meeting

45:22rooms and on the field, but it does seem like there are a lot of indications that he might be gone. Do you think he retires or do you think he's elsewhere? I would think that he would retire. I think if he's going to play more football that it would be here, he's sort of like Joe I think in that regard that if he's going to play, he's going to come back to the team that really wants him to be here and appreciates him and the community that he's very established in. How close were the Browns paying attention to the whole Max Crosby, Trey Hendrixson thing, just how to do business, how not to do business? Is it at all true that the Browns may be or one of the teams that wouldn't do business with the Ravens in the future because of this or is it just like, hey, well, they probably wouldn't do a lot of business because they're division rivals. Well, I'll tell you what, the Cleveland Browns not too long ago were a team that rankled all of the NFL owners or most of the NFL owners by doing the first and only guaranteed, fully guaranteed contract in the NFL for Dishon Watson.

46:24So the Browns knows something about being a team that teams don't want to do business with or might look side-eyed at them because of something that they did. So I don't think that other teams should be as judgmental about this whole situation as it seems like some of them are being or what we're hearing coming out from other GMs and whatnot. This is a business you have to do what you have to do for the best of your club. And if they thought that they didn't feel comfortable with the medicals, then they're not going to give up two first round picks for him. That's a mighty steep price to give up for someone if you're just not comfortable. Yeah, they'll get over it. There's only 32 of these. You have a limited number of trade partners. And if there's somebody on that team that you want, you have no choice but to work with them. So yeah, I agree that I think that there's a stain on them maybe a little bit now, but I don't think it'll last. No, I don't think so either. And the Ravens have always been viewed as just a very professional organization and they

47:29do things the right way and people respect them around the league. So yeah, I don't think so, but I do think that it might remind other owners and other teams and other GMs to just be a little leery of bashing another team for how they're doing their business. When do you think the Browns will start to finalize their draft board and what do you think the odds are that they would trade down again from six? Well, I think the odds are pretty good if they can find a trade partner. I think Andrew would love to trade down from number six and he's basically said that he's open to doing that. I think they're more than open to doing that because they need, once again, to be poised to take a quarterback in 2027 if the occasion arises. And right now it seems like they are marching forward with Dishon Watson and Shagor Sanders and they're going to let those guys compete for the starting job. That's what it seems to be for now. That can always change because in the NFL, we know you have to be ready to pivot depending

48:34on what becomes available. But as of right now, it seems like they're going forward with those two guys competing for the starting job and then see how that goes this year and then revisit the quarterback thing next year. So therefore you want to have, if you can get it, another first round pick for next year. Well, that's what I was going to ask is it feels like the 27 draft first round picks are a lot harder to come by. I know the Ravens just almost traded one, but for the most part, you get the sense it's going to be harder for a team like the Browns to acquire a first round pick next year in a draft that could have, I don't know what, four or five quarterbacks go on the first round. Yes, it could definitely be harder. It's probably not going to be as easy to get the kind of hall that Andrew Berry got out of the Jaguars last year. And when you look at that trade, I mean, that is, yeah, that trade was incredible. So he would have to work really hard to try to find something like that again.

49:36But if you can get a first round pick and again, it will not be easy. But if you can get one, you want to try to do that. And short of that, you know, you want to try to at least get maybe a high second or something like that. So yeah, I think that he will definitely try, especially after what he was able to get out of the Jaguars last year. How serious are we about Ty Simpson? Oh, you know, I think Ty Simpson is one of those players where you do your diligence and depending on where his market goes, you're just going to keep an eye on that. And you never know with a player like that that's only started 15 games in college. You don't know what the market is going to be, what the, how he's going to fall down that board or not fall down that board. So you have to be ready to go. I mean, they like him. They have their eye on him. I don't see them taking him at number six, or even if they traded back some. I'm not viewing him necessarily as someone that they're going to bring in here to be their quarterback of the future.

50:37But you have to be ready to pull the trigger on a guy like that if he starts to tumble in the same way that they did with Chador last year. Mary Kayke, have you joining us on the make it right? No car ride hotline. So not any, we always say open competition, no competition is really open. How badly does the Browns want Chador to take the reins of the offense this year at least? Well, he's got the chance. He's got the opportunity. And I think the Browns believe that Todd Monkin and his offense and his coaching and his scheme and play calling will be really good for Chador. They think that, you know, about the Sean as well. I think they're very, very eager to see what Todd Monkin can pull out of Chador's standards. So this is his opportunity. This is his moment to step up and really prove to everyone in the NFL, the Cleveland Browns fans, his critics, that he is as legendary as he believes that he is and it's all up to him now. He's got to do what it takes to go out there and prove it to him and prove it to them.

51:41If he can do that, then he will be the starter on opening day. Who gets to make the call on who the starting quarterback is? Is this a solely Todd's decision or will he have influence from above? Well, it will be, Todd will have the final say on that because obviously once you get to that point, it is the coach who gets to determine who is actually playing and starting. But there will be collaboration on that because there always is in this organization. He of course will put his head together with Andrew Berry and others in the organization and I'm sure that they will decide together for the most part. But it will be Todd's final say on who is going to play on opening day. Mary Kate Cabbage running us here on the show. Why are receivers who we in the market for? Are we still in the market for them free agent wise? I don't know about free agent wise. Those are starting to dwindle. I think at this point now, you might be looking at a trade sometime between now and the

52:42beginning of the season. And what you need to find is sort of a disgruntled receiver. Sometimes you find your best guys like that and Andrew has. He has found receivers that need a change of scenery. So they are at that point now where you would have to find someone who is looking for a new opportunity and a new contract and all those kinds of things now. They might skip all of that and just go straight to the draft and decide that maybe another premier receiver is going to come in the first round or the second round or whatever because they are running low on options amongst the veterans right now. Mary Kate, if you heard the rustling going around, I am very sorry about that. She didn't hear anything. He's a writer and he is not a broadcaster. Turn your mic off and stop sucking on hard candy while talking to the guest. I took it out. I've got his feet kicked up and everything over here. God, I'm very comfortable. It's amazing. It's up very early today. Oh my gosh.

53:42Oh my gosh. Actually, I want to go back to the offensive line for a second. How close do you think they came on Tyler Linderbaum and did the price just get too high for where they were with the cap or why were they interested, not interested, but not at that price? You know, I'm guessing that they were not interested at that price. I'm sure that they kicked the tires. I'm sure that they inquired. I'm sure they looked into it, but I think early on, they recognized that he was going to hit the jackpot and that they probably were not going to be able to land him. That was my sense on it. That was always how it seemed like it was going to be even heading into it. So I'm sure they made that phone call even as the negotiating window opened, but I think they knew that he wasn't coming here. What? Your turn. Well, I'm sorry. I'm just needed to make sure everything was okay over there. I don't know when you're picking up or when you're not picking up on these things.

54:43Mary Kaye. So I got to go back to the wide receiver thing, disgruntled wide receiver. I think you scared the B. Jesus out of every fan out there when you said looking for a disgruntled wide receiver might want to change a scenery because we went and got a disgruntled wide receiver who needed to change a scenery and things were good for a year and then it became awfully disgruntled again this last year in Jerry Judy. What makes it? What makes us think that it's going to change this year with anybody else? Well, of course, I know it doesn't have to be disgruntled, but it can just be a receiver that needs a new opportunity. So it has to be disgruntled. Okay. Sometimes if you're going to land a really good receiver, it's going to have to be somebody at that point that is looking for once again, more money, new contract, new opportunity, change a scenery. Any interesting names there? Any names? No, I don't. I don't see the brand and I. You can ask that. I was just going to ask that. That's where I was going. Yeah, I don't.

55:44I'm not feeling that one. Not that. There could be somebody in one of those categories that I mentioned. And sometimes those things happen after the draft when, you know, if you draft a couple of guys, then you don't have a need for a veteran or maybe somebody's getting up there in years, a little bit or something like that. So I don't think they know exactly who that person is yet. And I don't even know if they will look for a veteran, you know, maybe they'll go carnal paint at number six, who knows. But, you know, I do think that they need one or two more premier pass catchers on this chain. Mayor Kay, do you have anything else, Jason? I'll give you one more minute, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Any chance the first player off the board is a defensive player for them since this is a defensive heavy draft? Well, yes, there is a chance. I mean, I'm not here. Sorry. Whoa.

56:45Okay. Shut up. You don't got to dump all over it for crying out loud. Are you even wearing socks? What a hog. Go ahead, Mary Kay. I'm sorry. Well, they're poised now to do anything that they want to do. And that's how Andrew always likes to head into a draft. So if the highest rated player at number six and they decide to stay there is a defensive player, sure, they would go ahead and do that because, you know, they have more opportunities to restock the offense. Mary Kay, we thank you now for your time. Thank you for putting up with his intolerance. You should see him. I mean, he's totally an unprofessional. All right, Mary Kay. Andy, you go. I see how you tied your shoes. All right, Mary Kay. Thank you very much for the time. All the best of you and yours. And of course, we'll talk to you next week. I might take them off. That's good. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Mary Kay Cabot on the make a right call call right hotline. Can I tell you my theory about shoes? Do I ever tell you my shoe tie theory? What? Oh, I know you're fat on your shoe ties. What the way you tied your shoes? They're tied like a normal human tie. I will explain why also defense at six.

57:46That's a hell of a possibility that Mary Kay just said. What this week, what Mary Kay just said, what this week might have changed or what they do in April. That's also coming up in five minutes on the fan. He's the man in charge at HoopsWire.com. You can read Sam Amiko's coverage of the NBA. All over his fine website, it's HoopsWire.com and Sam joins us right now. Hello, Sammy. Hi, fellow. How are you? We're just great. Thank you very much. So last night, the Cavaliers go to Orlando. Lose a contested game, a good one. Jared Allen didn't play. But Franz Wagner is still out for the Orlando magic. And right now, if the playoffs started today, it would be the calves against the magic in the first round that I'll be honest. I do not like that matchup at all. What do you think? Yeah, you like the Toronto Raptors matchup. A lot better, but they've fallen down to the play in area, Toronto. And listen, Orlando is a team.

58:48Even though they've had their struggles this year, they kind of play off-style basketball most of the regular season. And by that, I mean, they're physical. They defend. They've got, you know, when Wagner comes back, they've got to, if not true, all stars, borderline, all stars, and Wagner and Ben Carroll. So, yeah, that would be a tricky and tough matchup. I like the calves, obviously, in a series like that. But we saw a couple years ago, even though the lineups were a little bit different, the calves or the magic gave the calves fit. So, you know, I think we saw last night that they always, it seems like Orlando always does a pretty good job on thought of in Mitchell, too. So, yeah, I mean, if we're speculating who could be a potential playoff opponent, I would think that the Cavaliers would prefer the Toronto Raptors as opposed to Orlando.

59:49Is Desmond going to be the bane of our existence for the playoffs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All I can think about was Batman last night, especially when he hit that bucket late, that three-point, that off-balance, three-point shot, that was kind of the backbreaker at the end of the game. I'm like, ah, why is this guy able to do this to us? Yeah, yeah, sometimes guys just get hot. You know, I don't know that that's something that would be a major concern game to game. OK. That's what I was hoping to do last night as I was watching. Andy, the one he hit at the end, where he was fading to the side and threw it up there. And I'm like, that's the shot you want him to take. And it just happened to go in. So yeah, I wouldn't be too, too concerned with seeing that again. Sam and Miko joining us hoopswire.com. I think I'm wrong on this. But as I was watching last night, and I'm seeing what's going on, and Jared Allen sitting there on the bench,

1:00:50I thought, is this team fragile? Is this team one injury, one guy being out away from having any issues? I think I'm wrong on that. But when Jared was sitting there, I just thought, there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for error here. But what do you think, Sam? Now, in one hand, you're right, Jeff. They're role players. Listen, role players always play better at home. And I think that game last night, we saw that. To me, it was just like, you're not going to go 82 and 0. You're playing pretty well. Your defense probably wasn't as, you probably weren't as motivated as you should have been most of the night defensively. And at that, and you're on the road, and you still had a really good shot to win, if it wasn't for some amazing shot-making by Orlando at the end. You just put yourself in a little bit of hole there.

1:01:53So listen, I think as long as James Harden and Donovan Mitchell are on the floor, they're going to have a shot against anybody. But they're going to need one of the two big guys, most nights, as most teams would. You want your core out there. So on one hand, yeah, Jeff, you're always one injury away from going downhill fast. But at the same time, I do like their depth, especially at home. I thought Thomas Bryant played a great game last night. I thought Sam Merrill played a very underrated game. They've got to get, I don't know what it is, but they've got to get Jaylen Tyson going again. I think that'll help them quite a bit. He's not been very good since the All-Star break. He's not been terrible. He's just not been the guy he was before the break. So they've got some things. They've got to figure out and protect themselves

1:02:55for the event that there is an injury. So I just think this is a team that they've got. When they put it all together, they can really go play. So what is that? Are you looking at a nine-man rotation for the playoffs? Was that too much? Generally, I think Kenny Atkinson, we saw last year would use nine guys. That ninth guy is probably playing like 10 minutes. But a lot of it depends on your playoff matchup. A lot of it depends on how much success you're having. But it's usually, as Mike Brown used to say, probably eight and a half guys at which I quickly asked him, how do you play half a guy? Yeah, how'd that go over? He laughed and said, I just sliced them right in half. I don't know. Hey, don't know that by a half really, you mean those guys play in 10 minutes, 12 minutes?

1:03:57It just depends. A lot of it, you play a big team. Thomas Bryant's going to probably see more minutes. He's got plenty of playoff experience. You play a smaller team than all of a sudden you're looking at maybe Craig Porter Jr., who didn't play last night. So I think, but by and large, Andy, it's probably eight, maybe nine if you can squeeze another guy in. Sam Amico joining us from HoopsWire.com. The Cavs last year were the team to beat in the Eastern Conference. I look at the Eastern Conference right now, and I don't think, and I don't think you think, I don't think Andy thinks that the Cavaliers of the team to beat. But is there a team to beat in the East? Is it Detroit? Is it Boston now with Jason Tatum back? Is it the next with Mike Brown splitting guys in half? I think just based on what we've seen since the All Star break, it's probably Boston, which is kind of stunning

1:04:57when you think about how they went all season without Jason Tatum. Didn't really skip much of a beat. Lost for Zinges, Norford, and Drew Holliday. And they just revamped the whole starting five of others in Jalen Brown. So they've looked really good. They're doing the same thing that they always do. People key on Brown and Tatum. And you have guys like Sam Hauser, Pete Pritchard, and those guys hit three, and that's a killer. They're quite obviously. So I think that that's probably the team to be just because they've had so much experience in the playoffs, when they change the trip and all that. Whereas Detroit, they've had a fantastic year. Number one seed so far. And we've said this for years, Jeff, young teams. They don't often do very well in the playoffs.

1:06:01They've got to kind of take the natural steps. So if you have your question, I'd say Boston. Then I'd say the caps. Then I'd probably say the mix and then Detroit. Sammy, do you think Hardin has settled in at this point? I thought I heard that he's still living in a hotel. So I'm just wondering. He's not going to go buy a house. No, but after this year, but you can get like executive housing for a month or two months, I mean, I'm Andy Baskin. Do you need a place to live? I'm just saying. I mean, I thought I heard him say last night that he's still living in a hotel. I'm just curious. He's out of the road half the time. Well, no, I get it. But my point is do you think he's settled in? Do you feel like he settled in last night? I was watching and I was like, OK, we passed that honeymoon period with him. Yeah, on the court, I think he's comfortable. But I think that he's fit right in. What are the guys now, nine and three when he's in a lineup or eight, three, or something like that?

1:07:01Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, so listen, they're going to lose some games sometimes. But I thought last night was not a terrible loss. I just thought it was a game that they had their moments that you can't have on the road that moment. So I think by and large, you look at him. What I liked about him against the magic is he didn't force anything. He's not forcing things. But there are times where it's like, OK, they need me to score where he's able to do that. So I just think he's very comfortable playing alongside the guys. I think it's pretty evident that, yeah, he finally got some practices with them. Same thing with Dennis Schroeder. And especially, we saw what Keon Ellis did. The past week Keon Ellis has been fantastic. He looked great last night. Yeah. So executive suite or hotel room, I think James Harden

1:08:01is pretty comfortable with that. Sammy, do you think it would be wrong to have an automatic review on plays that go out of bounds that even have a little bit of ambiguity in the final two minutes, like we saw last night, the one ball went out. Now they did slow mode again. And it was a little, maybe Harden did get his hands on it. Went up in the air, but he didn't think he did. And should you have to have to call for a replay in that situation or should it just be automatic in the last two minutes? If there's any kind of controversial call on an out of bounds play, which I think is the hardest call for any referee to make, you know, it's just a hard call. So why not help those guys out in the final two minutes? If you're going to use replay, what's interesting is Ken atkinson hates replay. And he wishes it would go away. But I thought last night when they challenged at the end of the third quarter, that was their second challenge. They won their first. And there was a second challenge on a Keon Ellis foul.

1:09:02That wasn't even a three pointer. And it was at the end of the third quarter. It was kind of a throwaway play. And Keon Ellis got a tee on that play if you remember that technical. I think he did it because he wanted to defend his player. But that's exactly why he did it. But I just let it go. Because guess what? Arleino ended up getting the technical and then hit the basket. So I was like, there was no point challenging that. Because all he was going to do is take two free throws. And I get what you're saying, Andy, where it was like he wanted to do a first player. But now you lost your, you'll only get two challenges. And they won that challenge. But now you don't have one for the end of the game when you really need it. And I understand, look, Kenny Atkinson, his guy wanted him to challenge it. And it was the right challenge. But I think it's your question, Andy. Yeah, I would love to see if you're going to have replay and all that stuff,

1:10:03then get it right all the time. Yep, I agree. Great. So yeah, automatic, just like in the NFL, where they do it on all scoring plays. Sure, do it. Do it on these out-of-bound plays with two minutes or less. See, I'm Amiko joining us hoopswire.com last thing. You take 43 shots from the field. You're going to score a lot of points. But if you take 43 free throws, you're really going to score a lot of points. 83 for Bam out of bio the other night. How'd that sit with you? I know the folks in Washington weren't real crazy. They do it still in the game. Yeah, I mean, listen, is he a top 30 player in the NBA? Probably not. He's probably right on the edge there. And now he's going to go ahead of Kobe and behind Will. But you don't want to take things away from people. I mean, even if he only had 60, it's an amazing game. But there is a lot of questionable stuff that happened in that game.

1:11:03You saw people missing free throws on purpose so that Washington would get the ball and they could foul them and they could ball back and get it out of bio. So yeah, he had to take away. I don't want to say that I mean, he obviously had a masterful performance otherwise. But the way they went about him getting to the 83 points was very gimmicky. And I've heard multiple times now since that Adam Silver is not happy with how that all played out at the end there. Yeah, Adam's not happy about much of these days, this is him. Well, hey, buddy, thank you very much. All right, guys, thanks for having me. We'll talk to you soon. Sam Rico HoopsWire.com, HoopsWire.com, Sam's website covering the National Basketball Association. Sam said these Celtics are the team to beat in the Eastern Conference.

1:12:03I think it's hard to argue with that. Then he said the Knicks or he said the Cavs. And then the Knicks and then the Pistons makes me wonder, are the Cavaliers a team to beat in the East? Or are they just the team in the Eastern Conference this year? 2-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-0-9-2. It's baskin' if it helps you're on the fan. To get us ready, there's nobody else we can talk to. Other than this man, is there Andy? No. No one. He's the guy. He's on the make it right. Call Kyle Wright, hotline. He went to Wright State. Pitch for the Indians. He pitched for the Angels. He pitched for the Diamondbacks. And now he's the color analyst for the Tampa Bay race. He also pitched for the Royals. I don't think I missed anybody. He's Mr. Brian Anderson. Hello, BA. Hi, hello, gentlemen. I just want to warn you that the end of this phone conversation could get a little awkward. So I'm a way to pick up the kids. They had a half day today as they get ready for spring break. And it was field day.

1:13:04So I don't live that far from the school. And pick up is between 1215 and 1230. So as this phone call is starting to wrap up, I will probably, the kids will be right there. My point saying all this is I told them, listen, when you go to field day, you will sweep all of the running events. And you will sweep all of the throwing events. And if you don't, then you will run yourself back home. I don't live that far from the school. So if, indeed, those questions are asked at the very end. You may hear live on TV that either Harper Baker or both may be running home from school if they did not sweep their events. Wow. That's some good pair to the end. That's going to raise them right there. Those are elite athletes. You've already got all about the experience. Andy, results don't matter. The question is, if they were hitting, would they shake hands with the catcher? No, they would not. They would absolutely not. I was, and I love Randy Rosarena. Absolutely loved him. He's one of my favorite rays, obviously former ray now.

1:14:07But I don't mind at all what Cal Raleigh did. Today's, there's a lot. I remember when I played for Cleveland my last trip in. I became friendly because we were basically the only two veterans on the team with Bob Wickman. And then I got traded later that year to Kansas City. And so I'm in the outfield in Kansas City during our batting practice. In Cleveland now, they have come out to start playing catch and to start loosening up for when they're going to hit. And I know the no fraternization thing. That's just something that is, don't do that. They do now. There's lots of huggathons out behind second base, five minutes before a game's going to start. And for old school guys, that's just not what, you know, that's not what you wanted to project to the fans. So there were rules against that. And I remember being on the on written rules against it. Yes, unwritten. I think when my first year with the Diamondbacks, it was not unwritten. It was Buck Show after saying, you are not

1:15:08going to be playing grab, but especially with people in the fans. So that was just not going to be put up with. But all that to say, there was a ball that got hit down into the corner. And I was shagging in the outfield. And I went over to get it. And I was close to Bob. And I tried to walk by him and went to start a conversation. And she didn't even look at me. He said, don't talk to me out here. He said, you know how it goes. As he's playing catch, and he's not even looking at me. He said, we'll touch base. And under the stadium, when batting practice is over, but run along, basically. And that's just kind of how it is. And that's kind of how it works. I was so surprised. I'm just absolutely shocked that you had that conversation about with him. I know. He could be a little prickly. But we, like I said, being basically the only two veterans on that team, we hit it off. So I understood what he meant. And I just, hey, listen, I went and did my thing. And we caught up later. So when Randy goes out there to shake hands with Tal, I have zero issue without saying, just step in the box.

1:16:12We'll be friends in a couple of weeks. Right now we're competing. Let's go. I love it. That's fun. That's fun. How big of a deal are spring training performances for young players when it comes to making the team? And in this case, or what we might expect. In this case, I'm thinking about Chase to Lauder in particular for the Guardians. He's having a good spring. But I would think unless he fell off the face of the earth, he's starting in the outfield somewhere, BA. Well, yeah, I think that for a young player, I think it's most important for them. You want to head through spring training and feel good about your game as you're getting ready for the regular season. Whether that be at the big league level, or whether you get sent to AAA, AA doesn't matter. You want to finish spring strong. You want to have a good spring. You want to feel good about yourself as the season gets ready to start. Also, you want to impress as a young player. You want to impress the big league brass. You want to impress the front office.

1:17:12You want to impress the coaching staff. You want to leave a mark. And ultimately, you want to make that team. And so I think all of those things are important. I think when you start to break down performances, you have to look especially when you're talking about spring training. If you're having a good spring and you're hitting well, who's he hitting well off of? Is he hitting well off of number 98 with no name on the back of the jersey? Or is he hitting well off of big league established pitchers? I think that all needs to be taken into account before you crown anybody. And even then, it doesn't matter. Because you're going to see it year in and year out on every team, guys that have a big spring, and you're like, oh, wow. And then the regular season starts, and slowly but surely, they disappear. That happens every year. And it happens just about to every club. So it's great that he's having a great spring. I absolutely love that for the kid. And hopefully that translates into an opening day assignment

1:18:15of being a starting big league outfielder. That's great too. But again, you've got to also look at where is this production coming from? And take some of that into account. But listen, all you can do is go out there and compete against whoever is out there on that mount. Or if you're a pitcher, whoever is stepping into that batter's loss. If it's a minor league guy or a non-rosser and bitey, that's that up to you. You just have to do your job. And it sounds like he's doing it quite well and good for him. B.A., eight o'clock tonight, USA Canada in Houston, Texas. Yeah, I'm calling it two to one, USA win in extra innings. Just keeping up with the hockey take. Oh, good call, good call. Didn't even think about that. Who will lose teeth in this game? Let's let's go. I don't know, but you know, you can't do that in the Olympics. But when they got together for that four nation tournament and they threw down three times in the first nine games. It was so awesome. Tell me that was not the best. It was awesome.

1:19:16I'm just going to add it. I love it, absolutely love it. I'm going to tell you right now that I love hockey. I love USA Canada, the men's in the four nations in the Olympics, all of that. But I'm going to tell you what, one of my favorite events to watch, and you get to see it maybe once a year, once every two or three years in really meaningful tournaments. But it's the USA win at a women's hockey teams. They're the best in the world by far. And they cannot stand each other. Those games are absolutely not down, dragged out, amazing events as we just saw in the Olympics. So those are some great things to watch. You just sports at its core. Where you are out there laying everything on the line to win for your country. And we get another opportunity to see that tonight, even though obviously there's restrictions in place as far as usage and players and all of the things.

1:20:17But you can tell these guys really care about what they're doing. All right, so I'm going. Aaron Judge to lose his teeth for USA. We'll go Bone Ailer. I'll stay home here for us. Well, listen, you got to be wary of the Canadians. But I will tell you this, the USA team got some size. You start throwing, you know, Judge is 6'7, 285. He's a Russian. And then you've got Schwarber. I mean, they got some boys that could throw down, so. 6'7, 285, you know, that's an outfielder. Goodness gracious. 6'7, and yes, I am doing it with my hands right now. 6'7, 285. There you go. That's the way it is. That's the way it is. That's the way it is. That's the way it is. You know, when you watch the WBC, BA, the, and that's a lot of initials I just threw in there. I apologize for that. When you watch the WBC, these guys are obviously having a ton of fun. You're seeing a little bit more of that in the majors, I think, you know, like guys get home runs and they get a crown on their head or they're wearing a cape or whatever. Should there be more stuff like that in Major League Baseball, more of the camaraderie

1:21:18and fun, or as 162 games so much, it's just all business or mostly business. You know what, there is, I think that there is, there can be a happy medium. You know, I've been one of those guys that I never like to see a hitter, you know, that flip and all of those things. The generation that I played in, if you pull the stud like that, you were going to wear one in the rigs next time. Yeah. And that's just the way it was. I mean, and you understood it. If I do that, a good chance I'm going to get dosed to my next tab that and you just, you just accepted it. I don't mind some of the showmanship of today's game. It's a different generation. They've grown up playing the game a little bit differently and it doesn't bother me like I thought that it would. Now some of this stuff gets a little absurd. I mean, let's be honest. There are some of the celebrations that we've seen, not, you know, not calling anybody out of the Dominican Republic, but the celebrations have gone a little bit too far. However, I don't mind it as much.

1:22:20I really don't. At the same time, if I'm a pitcher like, and I saw him do it, Grant Balfour. You remember Grant Balfour? The closer he flows with the rays, with the aides, a couple of different teams, there's with the twins. But I've seen him yell a guy off the field after he punches him out, throw the glove and basically tell him, get, you know, so if the hitters can do it, then, then, okay, big strike out in a big spot. Let him know. You're welcome. Let's walk him right back to the dugout, if you want. But yeah, no, I love the, I love the attention that the game is getting, it's getting a lot more national attention, this particular season with the WBC, and I don't mind the showmanship. Like I said, if it goes too far and we all know what that looks like, but some of the other stuff just doesn't bother me as much as I thought that it would, but at the same time, if a pitcher wants to, you know, like I said, he wants to walk you back to the

1:23:23dugout. I've got no problem with that either. Do you ever play for TBSA or get a shot to try to make a team BOSA? You know what, I played on, I went out in 1991, I went out for the Pan American team. It was my freshman year, it was after my freshman year, and coach Ron Nishwood said, right state, it would be notes to me, sent me down there as a walk on to try out. He said, I want you to go down there and do that. I had no idea that was on the radar, and I'm like, well, I'm not gonna probably make that team, but okay. So I went down there, and I survived the first few rounds of cuts. I ended up being down there for a couple of weeks. And then finally, when I got up, all of a sudden, guess what, a last-a-lead calls. The Cape Todd League calls. Wow. So what he did is he wanted me to get some national exposure, and it did open up those doors to be able to go up and play in the Cape. And then in 1992, and this is a funny story, and this probably won't have to end on. I was a preferred walk on. So they were gonna pay for 40 collegiate players to go down to Millington, Tennessee to go

1:24:25out for Team USA. And that was the Olympic year, Barcelona, 1992. And so I was a preferred walk on. We're not gonna pay your way, but we definitely want you down there. Ron Frazier was the head coach at University of Miami. By the way, they ducked me that year, I was supposed to pitch against them. There was a 15-minute rain shower in the middle of the afternoon, and they called the game. Don't hold any grudges. Don't hold any grudges. Well, they didn't want to lose the right state on their home field, which is exactly what they would have done. However, Ron Frazier ended up asking me to come down. So I show up, and you would show up, and you fly down there, and you'd wait for an hourly wait van to take you to the barracks where you were then going to train. So there was a group of us sitting there, players from all around the country. And I asked this kid, I'm like, you know, so what's your name? He tells me. What position? Shortstop. Oh, okay. What year? Freshman. And I'm thinking there were a lot of really good middle-infielders that year. And I thought there is no way that this kid is going to make the team, but good for him

1:25:26that he's going to come out and try to get some exposure. He's asking me the same thing. Well, I'm a sophomore, starting pitcher, right state. By the way, I looked like I was 12 years old. He later was telling me, well, while I was telling him, you know, my background, he was thinking, no chance this guy is going to make the team, you know, whatever. So we go down there. There are hundreds, 200 of us. And we go through all the workouts and the inner squad games and all of that. And they end up putting down to like 10 guys. And I made it and so did this other gentleman. So we were one of the 10 that they kept. Now here comes the 40 paid. So now there's 50 of us going for 25 spots, same thing. We break off the drills, inner squad, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They name the 25 man roster. I make it so does this other cat. And I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. We make, we're both laugh and tell them the story like, I didn't think you had a chance. Yeah, I didn't think you had a chance either. You know who that guy was?

1:26:28We do, but you can know I'm guessing. I guess then I think I think we do. It was no more Garcia part. Yeah. He was a true freshman at Georgia Tech. They had a weekend series against Miami Hurricanes. Ron Frazier of course, the Olympic head coach was the head coach of Miami. We've established that. And she went off on Miami, just went off on them, all three games over the weekend. And Ron Frazier said, young man, I'd like you to come to Millington, Tennessee this summer and try out for Team USA. And that son of a gun, not only did he make the 25 man roster, we then traveled this summer playing different countries in different major league venues. We went to Cuba for four days down to whole game and played the Cuban national team down there. I got to start against the Cuban national team on the 4th of July in mile high stadium out in Denver in front of about 68,000 people. It was insane. It was absolutely insane. You remember when the Browns played, you know, the AFC championship games out there, they

1:27:29had those metal bleachers that they found. And while they were doing that, while I was on the mound getting ready to start the game, it was wonderful. Some soaked afternoon on the 4th of July and they're pounding those metal bleachers seats and the rubber underneath my feet was vibrating. You could feel it. It was insane. But anyway, I was one of the five that got left behind because in the Olympics, and I didn't have any idea about this, in the Olympics, it was only a 20 man roster for baseball. Really? So yeah, 20 man roster. So we traveled and played the summer with a 25 man roster. But then five, unfortunately, we're not going to make it. And I was one of the five that got left behind. No more made it. No more made it. And he was one of the finalists to be able to carry the American flag in for the opening ceremony. He didn't end up doing it, but he was one of the finalists to be able to do that. So that's how we met and that's kind of where he got started.

1:28:31That's funny. You know how no mark got his name, right? I do. That was one of the first stories he told me that his father was named Ramon and they just flipped it. Ramon backwards. There's no more awesome. There you go. B.A. Wait, wait, wait. The kids of the car yet? How do they do? You know what? Well, hold on. I'll text you and you can feel the audience. I did not really want to put them in that position. So I'm just sitting in the car. I will give an update. The other thing you got me thinking, did you pitch against Danny Bias when he was in Cuba? But we got to get up here. No, I did not. No. The Cuban team that I faced was before they started defecting and that was a major league team. Aluminum bats. It was not. Oh, thanks. Ouch. Thanks. Thanks, buddy. Boy, have a great weekend. Jan Anderson joining us on the make it right call Kyle Wright hotline and you want good stories. Be Asia guy. Oh. And the wise dad's name was Ramon. They just spelled it back. Everybody has a story who's still incredible to me like never ever appreciated living here

1:29:34and so many easy lives. The easy life that so many of us have just to be here after talking to Danny about coming over from Cuba. Oh, Stephen vote yesterday. I think showed us what's coming this season. We'll explain it next on Baskinifelps. I'm Susie Welch, the host of Becoming You, a podcast where I help you stop living by default and start living by design. Listen to Becoming You, wherever you get your podcasts.