INTERVIEW: Tim Shriver Introduces The Dignity Barometer, Explores Hatred In America + More

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3:10Morning everybody, it's DJ, NV, Jess Hilarious. Shalom in the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Longer roses here with us as well. We got a special guest in the building. Yes indeed. We are Tim Shriver. Welcome. Yeah, we are. Thank you. Nice to be here. Appreciate it. Y'all having me. Tell them a little bit about who Tim Shriver is before we get started about why you're here. Well, I grew up in a big family. A lot of politicians. I started my career teaching. I spent 15 years teaching in the New Haven Public Schools. Created a field called social and emotional learning. Looking at the mental health issues and the challenges a lot of kids face across all income, race, gender, all that kind of stuff. And spent the last 25 years in special Olympics. Working on disability, healing the gap between people who do and don't have intellectual development. All disabilities in the last couple of years have been trying to figure out there's a way to heal the gaps in our country. You had a chairman at a special event? Yes, sir. Yes, yes. And Tim has created a survey that tracks how we're treating each other in America

4:12called the Dignity Barometer. Dignity Barometer. What is that? So the question, you know, Shar, we've been asking, I think the country's been asking is, what's tearing us apart so badly? Why are we so angry? Why are we so anxious? Why are mental health problems growing? Why can't we talk about issues? Why can't we solve problems? Our view is that we sometimes I diagnose the problem as we differ, come from different backgrounds. We don't think it's differences that are the problem. We think it's how we treat each other when we differ, which is a whole different set of questions. So we decided to measure how do Americans think about how they're treating one another? And this is why we launched this called the Dignity Barometer. And we think at the heart of figuring out how we get more justice, more joy, more progress as a country is figuring out ways to treat each other better. And that's what the survey tells us. The survey said that 94% of Americans believe that all people deserve to be treated with dignity.

5:12So what do you believe that? That's time not going to last seem high, but who's going to lie about that? No, I know, but I mean, we were hoping we would get like 55% because I was worried that when we asked that question, it was going to be like 40 or 30%. No, I don't think those people should be. I don't think Republicans are Democrats. I don't think people that come from New York or people that come from Mrs. whatever. I thought we were going to get a lot. 94%, that's an aspirational goal for us as a country. And what's equally interesting, I think in the barometer is that they say this is just as important, almost as important as the economy. People say, I think the number is 86% say the cost of living is the most important issue. The next one is 83% say toxic, the toxic culture is the next most important issue. So it's a kitchen table, we call it kitchen table issue. When you're talking about the price of eggs, when you're talking about can you walk on a safe street,

6:14you're also talking about, do you trust your fellow Americans? That's important to people and they see it as a crisis. Who does that tell you about society when you see 94% of Americans believe that people deserve to be treated with dignity? What does that tell you society wants? That tells me that people are hungry for leadership to show them how to do that. They rate the problem is coming from politics and the media, honestly. But they also realize they're not living up to their own aspirations. This was surprising. More than half Americans say, we're not doing this. We want this, but we're not doing it. So it's a little bit like we're naming the problem as politics, the algorithm and all that stuff, which is really problematic. But we're also naming a problem that we can each be a part of solving. I said, the other day just came out of my mouth. Not most of us can't solve the war in Iran. But we can solve the war at home. We can, that's it within our power. We don't have to wait for the president, the senator,

7:14or a governor, mayor, police chief, superintendent of schools. We don't have to wait. I mean, if we had leadership from those people, it would be great and we do have in some spots. But we can heal. This is, you know, you've been talking for years now, Charles, about mental health and about the urgency of facing mental health issues. How do we build mental wealth? You find and you feel like you're treated with dignity. Absolutely. That's where it starts. When your dignity is violated, how can you be healthy? How can you not resort to hostility and anger and violence? Our goal is to help people figure out how to find their own dignity and treat others with dignity. I think that would go a long way towards helping us get out of the mess we're in. Absolutely. You say people who use this index, like in politics, it won't like censor like government, right? But how do you not censor like looking at the people who lead our government in certain administrations or whatever? How do you not censor but also tell them to treat other people with dignity

8:15when a lot of what they're saying and doing is the opposite to treating people with dignity? Well, we're just trying to, like, what I like to say is there's a new issue. So we might differ on what we should do on climate change, right? You and I. But we can discuss it. And you can say, well, on this, this moment we should have done this or we should be funding more for schools or whatever. On this issue, we should have discussions. Is it appropriate for the mayor, the governor, or the president, the senator to speak this way? How do you defend using this much contempt, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Madam Senator, you know, Madam Governor, whatever it is? I like the second part of that. I don't like the first part because the first part is asking in answer. We know that it is the way that they should be conducting themselves. But I think the second part of how do you, what would you, how do you continue? Like, what did you say? Well, what I'm saying is, here's the thing, sure, most people don't see their own contempt. Do you see the contempt in other people? But you don't see it in your way. Like this woman said to me, I hate hateful people.

9:19Yeah. But she didn't see it. She didn't see that she had begun with you. Yeah, that's right. I did that last week in my therapist house. I literally, I literally was talking to my therapist about somebody that I was saying I hated it. And I felt so bad because I couldn't believe I had gotten to that point while I felt like I hated this individual. But I didn't actually hate them. I hated what they represent. Okay. The point is like, I became what I, I became an energy I didn't like. You, you, we all do that. And we, we get, but if we started to catch ourselves, challenge ourselves, we've seen this with, you know, like with Governor Cox, for instance, in Utah after the Charlie Kirk murder. He really tried to treat the, the, the, the, the accused perpetrator, the victim, his family, the country with a certain degree of dignity. He tried not to get trapped in the political vice, the same thing, you know, we've seen in other situations. And we saw this in mother manual church, you know, over a decade ago, people trying in the face of violence, in the face of that kind of contemptuous action,

10:23hatred with a gun, to respond in some way that would allow us to see there's a way out of hatred. We don't have to return hatred with hatred. If we give the, you know, the perpetrators of the crime, I often wonder about that. I don't know if that is a real emotional or they just doing that because they feel like that's what they need to do. Well, I think in your heart, you know, we all know the difference. We, we lie sometimes when we say what we think people want to hear. But I think there's also real evidence that many people have been able to transform hate and turn it, you know, like Dr. King said, you know, the only thing that will, you know, defeat hate is love. And I think people understand at some level within themselves when they can find that. It's not easy in the face of somebody treating you with contempt to return that contempt with, with your principles, but without hatred. I mean, our point here is don't, don't dim your principle. You know, don't, don't sit, don't be a centrist on everything.

11:23Don't become, you know, like that, that's not the point of dignity. The point of dignity is to fight for your principles. We say, add one, when you're fighting for your principles, treat the person on the other side with dignity. And you will actually make a much better case for your principles when you don't treat the other person with contempt. When you treat them with dignity, but challenge fiercely, strongly, passionately, there are programs, there are plans, there are the outcomes of their behavior. Like you said, you were so angry at what the person was doing. That doesn't have to be the same thing as being angry at the person. There's that kind of sensitive separation, I think we can make. And this is what the poll is telling us. People want, you know, when we said, why should we bother treating each other with dignity? You know what they said? Kids are watching. Our children are watching. Our children are watching. You look at the mental health crisis in kids. If I'm 15, 16 years old today,

12:24and I see a country I don't trust, I see institutions I don't trust, I see people who threaten me, I see a future, I can't understand, I see a job market, I can't plan for. Why wouldn't I be, why wouldn't I have a mental health crisis? We have to reverse this because our kids are watching. They want to see something they can believe and every child does. And if we keep showing them nothing but hatred and contempt for each other, we're going to see these numbers get even worse. They're bad enough right now. And some other data that the dignity, Marava to show it was 31% of the people say, we actually treat people with dignity. What did you think of that in them? I think it's honest. That's the thing that seemed very low. It's low but it's true. I mean, if I sit in a room, it doesn't matter whether the room is super conservative or super progressive. And I ask people, last time you talk politics, I give them the dignity index. And I show them, here's a one. A one is violence and hatred.

13:25A two is hatred. A three is disdain. You know, and a four is just, I'm superior to you. So those are the scores. Hatred, disdain, violence, and superiority. I say, when you last talk politics, how would you score yourself? Did you use violent rhetoric, hateful rhetoric, disdainful rhetoric, or just superiority? Most people go to themselves too, which is hateful. When I speak, when last time you talked to your friends, you were sitting around talking about what whoever was Trump or Schumer or, you know, the mayor, what kind of language. Most people rate themselves. They don't rate, other, they rate themselves. A two or a three at the bottom, towards the bottom of the scale. So this number in the barometer backs that up. We don't realize we are being as hateful as the people we're attacking. But when you ask people, they, they, I think they're pretty honest. Only 30% of us, 30 plus percent of us think we treat each other,

14:27other people with dignity. Shouldn't we hate the current system? Yeah, I shouldn't hate anyone going on in this country right now. Can you hate the system or the program or the policy without hating the person? This is a question. Not right now. Yeah, you know, especially when you have an outspoken, like we hear things from a person every day, almost. You know what I'm saying? Hateful things about other people, other groups of people. You know what I'm saying? People are not treating being treated humanly. You know, I think it's actually, it's crazy to say that. I never thought about it. But I've also never thought about hating a particular politician or elected official. I think for some reason, it's easier to hate the system and the ideas of politicians that it is. They hate the actual. Well, that's pretty sophisticated. Honestly, that's, that's, I would, I want to sounds like, silly, but that's advanced to be able to say, I hate the way we allocate money for schools. Or I hate the way we allocate money for law enforcement. Or I hate the way we allocate money for public works.

15:29Or I hate the way we spend money on defense. Or I hate the way we don't spend whatever it is. That's most people just say, I hate Trump. Or I hate Biden. But you know, if all you do is hate Trump or hate Biden, you make an enemy for whatever your ideas are from everybody who loves Trump or who loves Biden. So, you know, does that matter at a time like this? Do we want to change them? I mean, we have, I'm guessing most of your listeners, if not every single one, would prefer a different president. So that means you got to get 51% of the vote for a different type of leader. Do we want to convince the people? I mean, we have people in this country, a lot of them who voted for Barack Obama and Donald Trump. You want to convince them to vote for a more progressive candidate? I don't think it's going to be effective if one wants to convince them to vote for a more progressive candidate to say how much you hate the candidate they voted for. That just creates tribal defensiveness. If I say I hate people that work in this studio,

16:29I hate everybody that works for you, Sean. All I do is make an enemy. If I say this one person has behaved in a way or something they said on the show yesterday or last week was really troubling to me, then I have at least a shot of winning you over because I'm actually engaging in a conversation that I think you might be open to listening to me. What if I say I hate this system that has put us in the current condition where people, you know, can't afford just to make ends meet. Can't afford to care. I would just say, tell me what part, like tell me something that we can fix. Tell me something we can fix. Can we fix healthcare? I mean, it's complicated. I'm sure maybe there's great ideas about it. Can we fix? How can we create housing? Housing housing, yeah. So what's the solution there? I mean, I think to have a conversation about that, do I hate the mayor because we don't have affordable housing? I mean, I don't think it helps. Yeah, I don't hate the one. I can't hate the one individual because I know it's bigger than that one individual.

17:29Right, right. But that's like I said, that's why, honestly, that's why you're able to bring so many people into the conversation because I think you're able to sort parts of the country or parts of the system or parts of policies that you find, you know, injust or unacceptable from hating individual people. And I think that's what the country is not doing well right now. How do you think the TSA workers feel? Airports, they say, do you think they should hate the system or hate the man that they hear, the president that they hear every day saying like pretty much he doesn't care about them not getting paid. In fact, he's going to send ice. Oh, he is paying to go to the airport to help TSA workers who are still expected to show it without getting paid. Like do expect them to hate the systems or can they hate the man in charge?

18:29Because they definitely hate not getting paid. I mean, here's the thing, when I was a kid, I don't know about you all at your dinner table, but my mother used to say you're not allowed to use the word hate. I don't know if anybody else had that, but my mother said you can call people like she, I don't know, she came up with the name elephant ears. You can call someone elephant ears, but you can't say you hate them. That's a dirty word. Yeah, then my house too is well grown up, yeah. Okay, so you heard the same thing. A lot of moms, a lot of our moms and grandmoms and dads and stuff gave that message. I don't think that message was misguided. I think there are moments, you know, I wouldn't tell you to listen to somebody who walks in here with a gun and start shooting. It's not a good time for dignity. It's time for safety. It's time for emergency response. It's a time for protection. It's time for maybe even retaliation if you can defend yourself. So the goal of this dignity conversation is not to say there's an absolute right and wrong in the way you treat each other. The goal is to say that when we see our own contempt,

19:33we almost always want to change it. We want to do better. We want to do a little better. Like we don't want to be hateful people. Most people don't want that. They may feel it, but they would rather be able to transform the situation. The TSA worker you described. I think they'd rather figure out why the heck does the system not, why can't we get paid? Why can't they pass a bill? At the third time, you know, why can't they Republicans and Democrats agree? And I'll tell you, the primary reason they don't agree is because they're so contemptuous of each other because they hate each other and they're using their hatred of each other to advance their own political agendas. I'm sorry to say. I think that's true. I grew up in politics. I had senators, presidents of the United States and my family. But today, politicians, many of them are motivated as much by using issues for political advantages they are for solving problem. You can hate this system or you can say to your senator or your congressman, I want solutions.

20:34I don't want to hear how much you hate the other side. I want to hear how you're going to solve this problem. The certain instances, I do believe that you can hate somebody. And I feel like, in my opinion, it'll be okay, right? So I'll explain it like this. In certain cases, you can dislike their policy, right? You can dislike the things that they're doing. But if somebody comes into my house and kills my family, I'm going to hate that individual. I'm not on a healing journey to the point where I say, well, you know what, I'm going to turn my other cheek or I'm going to forgive them. I don't think so. And I see people do it all the time. I think majority is bold crap. Part of my... I think majority of biblical teachers... Yeah, I think it's bold crap, in my opinion. And I also do think that some of it is, they do that because they feel like that's what they should do. But now, do they believe it in their heart? I kind of find it hard to believe when you just took my whole family out or you just did something to my child or you just did something to my mother or father or, you know, when you see people in the church and somebody will come in the church

21:35and just shoot the whole church up. It's difficult to believe that because I feel like it allows you to open that up for something like that to happen again. Just in my opinion, when it comes to a quote-unquote hate. Now, when things with politics and things like that, yeah, I feel like people dislike policies. But if you're a hateful person and a nasty person, in my opinion, you're me saying, I hate that person. It's not the same as a person doing evil things. You just don't like the fact that that person is doing an evil job. Yeah. I can hate the devil. Is that mad saying I hate the devil? You know what I mean? So I feel like when it comes to that type, it's certain things. It's like you can't experience it. I can't give everybody grace. In my opinion, I'm not there yet. You can't, my family, I can't give you grace. I'm sorry, I'll highlight the big man when I get there, but I just can't. Yeah. I hear you. I don't think it's always a fake. I don't think that's true. I just say all the time. I think sometimes I do feel that way. I think sometimes people aspire to be forgiving, even though in their hearts they aren't yet. And so they say they are in maybe in hopes of becoming

22:38what the words they use. Sometimes people just lie and say I'm forgiving and they're harbor hatred and they don't care about the lie. But I think a lot of times people do move. I mean, I've seen in my own family, my own family, we've had, you know, we've been, violence has taken people from my family. You know, this is, can I say who you're uncle? Yeah, sure. John F. Kennedy. Of course. So I grew up in a situation where violence robbed us as children of safety, of the health of our parents, of people we loved. And I've seen people struggle with that their whole life, you know, and I've seen people try to really hard to forgive so that they would be able to get the devil out from inside of the anger, the hostility, the vitriol, the pain could be eased for the act of forgiveness. So sometimes maybe it's not even selfish.

23:39I mean, it's not even selfless, it's selfish to forgive because that's where healing, I think, happens. But here's the thing, this is a conversation the country needs to be trying to have. I'm not here to tell you, like, I'm not a preacher. I'm not here to say this is the commandment. I'm here, I'm here to say I think we're seeing a new issue in the country and asking ourselves how we treat each other as an issue. I mean, what is, you know, this is a conversation that has focused in many, many different moments in time on issues of race and culture and these kinds of things. What is racism, if not institutionalized hatred? Let's show. Okay, so it's an institutionalization of the humiliation and demeaning and hatred of a group of people. So, you know, if we want to end it, we have to end hatred because at the surface,

24:42at the heart of it is hatred, is sense of superiority, is a sense of disdain for people that come from a different certain background or certain skin color. It's crazy as it is, that's the reality. So, I just want to talk systems, I want to talk housing, I want to talk healthcare, I want to talk education, that's my background, I want to talk all those things. I also want to talk about this. As a country, and that's what the Barama says. Where does the hate, how do we stop hate, right? Especially in an algorithm. That's a really good question. I feel like our community has seen probably one of the worst hate, right? I can tell you from my dad serving in Vietnam, him and the troops coming, you know, going to a restaurant, the white troops going to a restaurant, he has to sit outside, right? That's hate from built up, he will never forget that. He talks about that all the time, you know, how he feels towards people because those are the same people he fought for this country for. And they looked at him differently when he got off that barit. You know what I mean? So, it's like that's embedded in his life and how he feels.

25:44So, he always looks at white people like that because he remembers that. He remembers taking a bus and having a seat in the back. He remembers being a bus driver and throwing things at him. He remembers those things. So, that hate is embedded because those people hated him. I, you know, as a country or as a person who believes in this country, it breaks my heart. I know it's true. That happened and it happens, right? It's not just what your dad experienced. As, you know, I don't have to say it on this show. That kind of behavior still happens. And it's a, it's a stain on our country and it's a stain on me as a white man. And I, you know, I'll come back to the question you asked which is how do we end that? And, you know, there's a lot of theories on how you end hatred. One of them is you kill people who are hateful. That's war. One of them is you cancel, destroy, demean, humiliate people who are hateful.

26:45That's prison or a cancel. And, you know, those things, you know, like for all Williams said after, you know, I use a great, I think it's a great quote from for all Williams. He just said it on a daytime talk show about eight years ago. He said, you know, you have to choose what side you're on. So what side you, what, you know, his, his language was, I'm going to choose empathy. I'm going to choose, choose inclusion. I'm going to choose love for everybody, just wishing people the best. As a way of transforming hatred. I don't know that it always works. We know parents want to feel confident as their teens navigate social media. With Instagram teen accounts, teens get automatic protections by default. The teens between the ages of 13 to 17 are automatically put into a protective experience. That means they get built in content settings for what they see, contact limits on who can contact them and time management tools like daily time, limit reminders as well as sleep mode, which mute notification from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m.

27:48Plus teens on the 16 need a parents permission to change any of these settings to be less strict. Instagram continues to work on building new safety features to help create age appropriate experiences for teens. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to help protect teens online at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. What up everybody, it's DJ and me from the Breakfast Club. Now, you know me and my wife married 24 years and together over 30. And yes, we still speak on the phone every day. I mean, the early days, I didn't have a cell phone. I couldn't afford a cell phone and the cell phones were like the size of a man's purse. But anyway, I love speaking to my wife over the phone. People say we talk too much, but that's my best friend. Why shouldn't we be able to talk all the time, all day long 24 7? But did you know that 2026 will mark the 150th anniversary of the first ever phone call? It took place March 10th, 1876. And that call sparked it all for the first long distant phone lines. The first lines across America, the first line across the Atlantic, the first round the world called the first commercial cell service.

28:51The first 911 system, AT&T has been connecting people for 150 years in so many different ways. Thank God we have cell phones. I can connect to my moms, my pops, and my whole family. Thank you, AT&T. Connecting changes everything, AT&T. Hey y'all, what's up? It's Lorna Rosa. Okay, let's talk curls for a second. Because you already know if you have curly or coily hair, moisture is not optional. It's essential. Dryness is one of the biggest challenges for curly hair. In most products, they clock out after wash day. The new ultra moisture collection was literally designed with our hair and mine. Curls, coils, all of it. Powered by Botanol oil and Jamaican black castol oil, which means the science is actually doing the work, clinically proven to help retain moisture for up to five days, five whole days. The shampoo gently cleanses without stripping. The mass, deeply conditioned, it helps reduce breakage. Believe in ads, a lightweight hydration with hyaluronic acid and the curl cream defines without crunch.

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30:51A state farm agent can more than assist you in finding the right coverage for your new place. If you have a claim, the local agent can help you file it. Yup, that's right. Over the phone, in person, online, or on the out. They are ready to help you and they don't drop the ball. You know what I mean? Like a good neighbor, state farmers there. Success starts with your drive. An American public university is here to fuel it. With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion. Our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire. APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. Not maybe not in the short term, but in the long term, I think, you know, the thing, you know, like if you're a teacher, and you go to, you're in the playground, you're in the cafeteria, and there's a fake going on. You know what everybody says? He started it. Of course. He started it at a certain point.

31:53Like, who, I mean, it's important who started it, but who's going to stop it? Who's going to stop it? Who's going to stop it? Who's going to stop the behavior that damaged and demeaned and humiliated your dad? Who's going to stop it? And how are we going to stop it? And what's the atonement for it? And what's the, what's the reconciliation, you know, the truth and reconciliation like they did in South Africa? What's the reconciliation process? What's the, you know, you know, in schools, we try to get rid of punitive discipline and create restorative practices so that people can learn how to make amends for things they've done wrong to kids at 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 years old can learn the process of undoing the pain through making some kind of restorative practice, through apology, through rebuilding trust slowly, slowly, trying to, trying to start on a new foot. But that's a tall order when, when everything that you said is, it feels like it's dialed back, right? You say what, or how do, how do we stop it?

32:56When in 2026, 2025, they pulling books out of schools which is African-American legacy, right? You have all these amazing black entrepreneurs in all these different stores, right? And they wouldn't be in those stores, but they would have to force. And those products are selling amazing, so that means it was the right thing to do. They pull back the, now all those people that were selling, taking out of the stores. So how do you do that when it feels like it's dialed back in 2026, when things are supposed to be getting better and we're supposed to be moving on and dignity and all that, but it seems like every year, it gets worse. It gets worse. And how do you expect people not to hate the system that's making it worse? I don't think anything that you said there is hateful. I think what you said is the system, there's laws and rules that are unfair, that are unjust. I mean, I happen to agree with you. Somebody else, my senior said, I don't agree. I don't like affirmative action. You know, or I love affirmative action.

33:58I happen to agree with you, but I don't think what you said was hateful. I think what you said is there's policies that are damaging the lives of Americans, hardworking, caring, smart, creative Americans are being hurt by policies being enacted by this administration. Game on. Let's have a conversation about it. Is DEI gone? I mean, maybe in some places, people are changing their language and stuff like that, but is this country no longer committed? I mean, in the Special Olympics world, we call ourselves the inclusion revolution. That's the eye of DEI, inclusion revolution. We go all the schools all over the country, trying to help people see that this child you thought was hopeless and helpless and a victim, and somebody you wanted out of your school, out of your classroom, out of your place of business, belongs. People are still welcoming it. So I think the heart of the country is open.

34:58I mean, I think there's a possibility in the future. Maybe I'm naive, you might say I'm naive. I've been accused of that before, but I think our history tells us that leaders can rise up and can change the narrative for us and can bring us greater dignity. We've seen this in other countries when there have been governments that have appeared totalitarian or if it appeared authoritarian and leaders rise up sometimes from the people and they say, no, we want a different path. Or do we want to just retaliate and do revenge because they started it? Yeah. And you know what they say? The guy before me started it. So we're going to end up in either a revenge cycle or a healing cycle. And maybe there's a little bit of us in each one. There's a little bit of us that wants healing and a little bit of us that wants revenge. Okay, game on. Let's have that conversation. This is an interesting conversation because you know, enemies are not wrong, you're not wrong either. And like you said in light of history,

35:59I think about like Martin Luther King Jr. There's evidence that what you're talking about is work. And okay, Junior always talked about, you know, the power of love, right? He talked about how he decided to stick with love because he knows that love is ultimately the only answer to human kinds problems. But you still have to have a leader, like Yonko, John F. Kennedy, who understood that, who felt that, who had compassion for what other people was going through. So I wonder was that message, was that what made your uncle move the way he moved? That message? I think, I think so. I think look, he grew up with a sister who had an intellectual disability. So take this, you know, in 1920 to have an intellectual disability, you got put an institution for life. Locked up, parents told, give up your kid, put it in his, you know, half the time no clothing. So that's what would happen to his sister, but his sister stayed home. My grandparents made the most important decision. I think of their lives, which is to keep their child with a disability at home. So that young man, John Little John Kennedy,

37:02grew up with a sister of the world hated and he loved. And so he knew something was wrong with the world because he knew his sister was beautiful and competent, caring, and funny, and playful, and socially great. And she couldn't go to the school, Char. There was no school, literally. So he had compassion for Mars in a life community, though. I think he learned it at his own kitchen table. Just like a lot of us learned it at our own kitchen tables. And so the question is, can we create a viral movement? That's what Dr. King did. He awakened people to the dignity. I mean, that's what the march was. That's what the city and protest were. I'm sitting here because I own my own dignity. I'm not getting up from this seat. No, Ms. Park said, I am not moving. And all of a sudden, you know, not all of a sudden. That's the wrong way to put it. But over time, hearts began to soften. If you read that, if you want the best treatise in American history on dignity, in my view,

38:04just my personal opinion, reread. I know everybody's read it, but reread after this conversation letter from a Birmingham city jail. Read the long version. Don't read the short version. The people, sometimes you see it on the internet. You get the three paragraphs. It's not three paragraphs. It's like 5,000 words. And he fiercely challenges the bigotry and the segregationists and the accommodationists of both religious leaders, but find in there a hateful word toward them. I was talking to this guy the other day. His, he runs the one of the big museums in Atlanta. And his grandfather was one of those white ministers in Birmingham, who Dr. King was writing to in that Birmingham. And he, I haven't dug into this much, but he said, you know, that letter changed my grandfather's life. And the grandfather's still alive. So I'm guessing a couple of those preachers

39:05that he was writing to, those ministers he was writing to are still living. So I just think that's, we got a better shot that way. I just wondered if that would be. That would be quick. You know, taking somebody out is quicker. Yeah, I just wonder if that will work with this, with a regime implementing the authoritarian strategy. That's all I just, I just wonder. And also I wonder if it's even about the regime. Maybe it's just about us. Maybe us as people, because you know, I feel like the greatest, you know, political institution in this country is we, the people. That's it. That's right. So maybe it starts with us having dignity for each other. Maybe we need to be the body that, you know, comes to you. I mean, that's, that's what the data says. I mean, in the end of the day, I'm here because there's new data and the data says people want that. And we don't have to wait for the president, but let's be clear. Hateful politicians survive and thrive when they tap into the hate in us. On both sides. Now, I don't know, I'm not saying that it's morally equivalent on both sides,

40:06but I'm saying the tactics are sometimes equivalent. Hatred on one side is not necessarily better than hatred on the other side, even if the cause might be better on one side of the other. So I think people are starving to hear a conversation like that. I mean, I'm get, I hope. People's like, wow, that's interesting. I agree with him. No, I don't agree with him. No, maybe we should try it there. Maybe we shouldn't try it there. Maybe I could have said that differently. That's what kids all, when I present this stuff, invariably, kids say, you know what? I put a post up. Yes, I'm going to take it down. I attacked, and kids see this. Kids see the attacks. The vicious, you know, you, you're disgusting, you jerk, you're hopeless, you're ugly, you know. This is what kids are seeing at 10, 12, 14 years old. And when they hear that there's another way to do this, they almost all of them. I'm telling you, it's amazing. I've talked into assemblies, five, six, seven hundred kids. They almost always, I'm going to take a post down. I put up yesterday. Wow. But there are actually like the streamers that categorize rage bait.

41:10It's called rage bait. They do nothing, but people to be angry. They say things, they can be, not just racist things, but just anything like to get people routed up. Like that's an actual category on the street. It's a business that, you know, a man who really calls them conflict entrepreneurs. Oh, I like that. You know, and they're just out there trying to get us furious. Yeah. So that you go to your, you have to go to your therapist and say, I hate this mother. I hate this mother. Well, I can't stand it because you've been more often than not. You've been caught by rage bait. Yeah. And you've been, you've seen the conflict entrepreneurs. And you know, sometimes like I said, I had this focus group with seventh graders out and eighth graders in Des Moines, Iowa a couple of years ago. I was talking about bullying and contempt and what's it like in your school? And kids, well, young girls said, ah, you know, we don't have much bullying in the schools. I asked another question. It's like, when you do, do the teachers care? Yeah. Yeah, the teachers care.

42:11I said, well, what about you and the peer groups when there's bullies? She says, that's the third question you asked me about bullying. I'm telling you, we do not have a bullying problem. Says, you want to find bullies? Go look at the adults. Wow. In ties and suits and boardrooms and halls of Congress. That's what she said. She said, when I go home, I see my mom watching TV. That's where the bullies are. Bullies aren't in my school. Oh, wow. Yeah. So the kids know that it's us. And again, I'm not saying this is the absolute, you know, right and wrong. I'm saying when you start to see like the map in your mind, like you were just describing to me this map in your mind when someone comes in and takes the life of your children, your family, and how you would move from being a, maybe a peaceful or a happy person down, down, down, into the descent of hatred and venom and retaliation.

43:15And that's a map. We've all know it. And there's a map that lets us move up, you know, in the steps we can go through and the healing we can go through and the therapy we can go through and the faith we can manage and the trust we can build. You know, we all have different solutions. The music we can listen to. I think that's a good conversation like how do we move up and how do we get the, you know, the rage bait out of our system. I mean, if you said have a cup of poison in the morning, that's not good for you. But we consume a whole dose of rage bait. And that's not good for you either. That's even, in my view, I mean, depends on what the point, it's almost worse. The data says people understand that. Meet me at a question. Well, we were talking, you were talking earlier, and I'll bring it back to rage bait. We have our president of the United States basically rage baiting us every single day.

44:16I mean, he recently just said he was happy that Robert Mueller, you know, was dead, right? So how do we, how do we continue to process that when every day we continue to hear things like that coming from the top? I don't have a perfect answer for you there. I tell you what I do. I limit my intake because some of that is not news. Any more than I would watch a Ku Klux Klan website, I don't go there. I don't mean it's not happening, but it's not important to me. I think a lot of people in schools were doing this now, limit your intake. Don't click on everything that says something that you think is outrageous. Not because, you know, you want to live in a fantasy world, but because you want to limit the poison going into your body. And sometimes that's all it is. Sometimes we're just spinning on poison. So one thing is limit your intake. A second thing is to figure out how to process

45:18and manage your anger and channel it into things that will make a difference because just retaliating that that post is offensive or hateful would have, I think what a lot of people want to do is figure out how to create an alternative. And to your point, I think a lot of people are doing that. We have the No Kings protests, right? Yeah. A lot of people are pulling together to fight back and to say that this is not OK. Yeah. I think a lot of people are. And I just hope, you know, the next round of political action doesn't begin with no. I mean, no Kings, I get it. But I'm hoping the next round of political action begins with what we want. Yeah. What do we want? We want a country where people treat. I mean, look, maybe AI is coming for our jobs. I don't know, you know, maybe nuclear weapons are coming for our lives, I don't know. But in the meantime, we have 300 plus million people in this country.

46:18We got a lot of pain in our past and in our present. We got a lot of anxiety and our children and our families. There's one group of people that can do something about it. That's us. I think it's a good place to start. Not that we have this data. What do we do with it? I know you got the website dignady.us. Dignady.us. Check out, you can check out the data there. We have a series of training programs we're doing with businesses. We've trained like 30,000 employees in companies that want more dignity in their leaders, in their problem solving, in their team building. And we're getting great results from that. We have a partnership with the National Governors Association and try to get governors. We're not at the level of the federal government, but the states are really important and how our governors lead is often a big part of our daily lives. So we got a lot of governors, governors like Wes Moore, Josh Shapiro, Spencer Cox, Kevin Stitt, who are joining us, Jared Polis, who are joining us

47:20and saying, I'm committing the leading with dignity. So we're working with politicians to try to train them in the skills of dignity. And we're working with schools. And here's the newest one. We haven't really gotten going on this, but we've had a lot of requests from faith leaders. You know why? Because they say they're trapped in hating other faith leaders. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they have hatred within their Congress. Why would they hate each other? Like, for what? Well, you see progressive faith leaders who see these white men. What's that? You get more time than offers in meals on a day. Like, what's the word? Maybe, but maybe it's just they see the violation of their principles. Somebody claiming to be a Christian who is pro immigrant. Some mean claiming to be a Christian who is pro white nationalist. And people go, I can't, that person is, I hate that guy. And so the breakdown in the faith-based community, and let's be honest, I mean, I'm a person of faith, but faith is, you know, saved my life,

48:21but it's also been a source of a lot of hatred over the years. So we have people in the community of believers who haven't quite figured out how to answer the question. We're asking ourselves this, which is when we see things that we find unacceptable unjust, how can we respond with love? Can we do what Dr. King said? It's not easy. Even people who preach it, can't necessarily do it. So we have like a whole skills framework, char that, you know, you can show you how to be a better listener, show you how to be more curious, show you how to stand up for your principles without dehumanizing other people. So we're building a little toolkit to try to... Yeah. You know, to your point, the protest in Minnesota, with the pastor. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you saw this, and a lot of those people were faith-based, you know, at Lutherans, you had Catholics, you had a lot of people with other different, and a lot of people who weren't faith-based, and a lot of what happened there, and, you know, it's not, it doesn't excuse any of the things that happen there. But a lot of what happened was people stopped,

49:23people saw the dignity in the protestors. They were, they felt like Americans, and I think even the president said, wait a minute, that dignity, you can't beat that. People see that, that's, let's change course here a little bit. Well, dignity.us, you want them to go here and what? I want them to go there, I want them to download the dignity index, I want them to invite us to come and work with your schools, your school boards, I tell you that's, as another place we get a lot of interest, because people come to the school board ready for war. How dare you, you know, they are attacking the school board members, there's been violence, so we, you know, how do we have a discussion about our textbooks, how do we have a discussion about the curriculum without hatred, that's another area where, so we want people to get involved, join the dignity movement, be a part of a movement that's about dignity. I want this show to have a weekly episode,

50:23don't have to be with me, somebody reporting on dignity and contempt. You could do this, I can't pick, who would be my choice for a reporter on this, but take, take, like once a week, take three speeches or three sections of quotes, and score them, let people listen, let people chime in, let people voice what they, how could you have said this differently? How could, how could you rewrite this tweet that Tim Schraver put out? And, you know, we determined it was, you know, it was so hateful. And how, let's have a discussion about it. I think, I think your listeners would really be fascinated, because it's, first of all, it's a little bit fun. I mean, we do this all the time with kids, score this social post, score that one, with using this scale we have. And so kids like it, they can score the, get us a good dress, they can score, I have a dream speech, they can score, sojourner truths, they can score George Washington, they can score Thomas Jefferson, they can score the Declaration of Independence.

51:23It's fun. Okay, let's go ahead and before you go, score this, right? Yeah. This is Brooks Pateguyer. He's an anvil, anvil, and what's the word? Evangelical pastor. Okay. Who has been described as petexep's closest spiritual advisor. He said this, he said, first and foremost, we pray to the man like this would be cut to the heart. He said, he puts Talleriko in the category of public enemies are those you are not called the love. This is where you have impractical, imprecatory Psalms. This is where you pray strongly. The psalmist is not shy. God destroy them, make them is dung on the ground. I pray that God kills him. Talking about James Talleriko, the pastor said, ultimately that means killing his heart and raising him up to new life in Christ. How do you rank that? That's a one. That's as low as it goes. No zero, it's not a zero. Damn, okay. That's the lowest it can go. Thank you. Your humanity has doesn't matter. You should be destroyed. So that's a one. Now, if that guy was sitting here,

52:24he'd give you all the justifications for it, but it's still a one. And he would say something like that guy started it, that's dangerous. So look, I think that's a one. All I can say is there's better ways to make that point. Whatever point he's trying to make, I assume he doesn't like Talleriko because if you want somebody to die, what's the better way to say it? Oh my God. That's a say. You're good at having you. I wish you a beautiful afterlife in the end with the angels and the saints, you know? Dignity.us, man. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Good morning. You're all finished or y'all done? Success starts with your drive. An American public university is here to fuel it with affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs. APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh,

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