INTERVIEW: Rep. Ro Khanna Talks Epstein Files, War Powers Resolution, Iran, Plans For Higher Office + More

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3:02Check out Shopify.com, slash BEN to see why millions of businesses have chosen them to build their empires. And maybe even start yours. All of you. Every day you wake up. Make your ass up. The breakfast club. You're all finished with y'all done. Morning everybody, it's D-E-J. N-V. Jess Hilarious, y'all remain the guy. We are the breakfast club. Today we have our assistant Angela Rye and Miss Mimi Brown joining us this morning. Yes indeed. We got a special guest in the building. We have a role conner. US representative from California's 17th Congressional District. Good morning. Good morning. I'm excited to be back. All right. How you feeling? I'm recovering from a cold, but I'm better now. Do you feel like it's a target on you, Roy? Yes. Well, everything that you're doing. Well, my guy said I've taken on two-bodied fights. Yeah. I took on the Epstein class. Absolutely. I've taken on. I don't think we would have the Epstein file if it wasn't for, you know, the legislation that y'all have a minute. Yeah, the survivors get the most credit. But then, Nancy and I, you know, when we started that, it was way uphill.

4:04And people thought we were crazy. So we've taken on some very powerful people. Then I've taken on APEC. They don't like me. Then I am messy and are doing the Iran War Powers Resolution this Thursday. So there's a lot of the Iranian-American community that's upset at me because they want us to get into a war. And then Bernie Sanders and I are talking about taxing billionaires. So the billionaires are upset at me. So, you know, some people say you picked too many fights at once. But my view is we got to pick more fights against the established class of this country. And, you know, I joke around because I'm not the most charismatic person. But I say, courage is the new charisma. What people want is actual conviction. People who are going to stand up for working class, middle class families against folks who rig the system. Well, my first question is you talked about picking a lot of fights. I think that that is important given the fact that we're hearing over and over again that the Democratic Party writ large, especially in Congress, is not picking enough fights.

5:06What was the intention behind working with Congress of Massi? Do you all see a growing portfolio of how you all will work together or was this just two people trying to do the right thing because that's what the moment required? We started out being against war, you know, the famous line. You got money for war, but not for the poor. That's two bucks. That's two bucks, quote. A modification, but yes. I can't wrap, but I know the basic lines. Same thing, but two bucks said that Dwight Eisenhower said that every dollar spent on a worship, every dollar spent on a bomb, every dollar spent on a missile, is a dollar not being spent on a school or a hospital. And this country keeps voting for people who say they're not going to get us into war and they keep getting us into wars. Both sides, we got into Iraq. I was opposed to it. We got into Libya. I was opposed to it. We got into a war with Yemen. I was opposed to it. As was Thomas Masi and we don't want to get into billions of dollars in our service members dying in Iran.

6:11So Thomas Masi and I started out this year working on the Iran War Powers Resolution. We've been trying to stop this war for the past year. Then what happened is he saw that I had put out an amendment to say we need to release the Epstein files because it's the same group of people who have off-short our jobs who get us into these wars who were covering up in my view for doing some awful things to young women on Epstein's island or Epstein's ranch. And he said, well, why don't we team up on this? And I said, Thomas, we keep being on the losing side of votes. I said, well, let's do this. And we did it. And people are like, oh, these conspiracy theorists, etc. I said, no, this is real corruption. These are rich and powerful people who think they're above the law. And we got Marjorie Taylor Greene. We got Nancy Mays. We got Lauren Bulbert. We got the entire Democratic Party. And we finally forced Donald Trump to actually sign this bill. I don't think Trump still knows he signed my bill, a Democrat's bill. You know, it is the only time a Democrat is actually won against Donald Trump legislatively this whole term.

7:14And it's because we built a unique coalition. And Nancy Mays and I, you know, we got into it, which are one of these sessions. And it takes something. So I went with humility. I said, you know, Nancy, I know we had that issue, but let's come together. And she said, she's a survivor of sexual assault. And it was personal for her. And I say, I'll say, I don't take a show. She showed enormous courage, enormous courage in standing with those survivors and not being bullied by Trump. Nancy is facing a primary challenge. Billionaires funding against him. I'm facing a primary challenge. Billionaires funding this guy against me today. Are you concerned about the primary challenger? Because this is mostly centered around the billionaire tax. Billionaire tax. Billionaire tax and the Epstein, Epstein class. I mean, it's all connected. Some of them say people who are against the billionaire tax are also have their names all over the Epstein files.

8:14Who is part of the Epstein class? A lot of them are billionaires. So am I concerned? I mean, politics, you never know. I mean, I'm going to take it seriously. I'm going to fight hard. Nancy's going to fight hard. I think we're going to prevail. Because I think we're on the right side of the issue in terms of taking on the Epstein class in terms of saying the billionaire should have a little more tax. You know, I didn't want to give out one statistic. 19 billionaires in this country own 12.5% of the wealth. In the gilded age with Rockefeller, with Morgan, with Vanderbilt, that class of 0.001% on 4% of the wealth. I guess what? They built libraries and they built universities and they built hospitals. We don't have that with the billionaires. So if you can raise their tax by a few percent on their wealth and you can have Medicare and you can reverse the Medicaid cuts and you can have child care and you can have teachers being paid $60,000. And you can give a $3,000 or check every year to people making $150,000.

9:14I think that's a reasonable thing so everyone has an economic state. I agree. What shocks you the most about the Epstein file that you saw? It's like, how is everyone involved in it? How does this guy know more people than like heads of state? Why? I mean, who the fuck is Jeffrey Epstein? How does he connect with all these folks? He's like, oh, let me arrange a meeting for the Prime Minister of India. Let me go talk to the Prime Minister of England with what they're doing in terms of trades. Let me do something with the Prime Minister of Israel. Let me talk of, you know, he's got people who know Putin. How is it that every single person wants to be at his parties? Every Silicon Valley big shot? Oh, well, I'm in the files. I'm not saying they did something wrong, but like they all want to be part of his club. Do you believe he's a time traveler? What? He's asking, man, because the way he's connected to everybody is kind of spooky. It doesn't seem normal. It does not seem normal. I mean, you could be a former president, and I don't know how you have that kind of network.

10:14Where everyone wants to come to your events, everyone wants to come to your parties. You know, the former Prince Andrew, his former girlfriend said, you're a loser if you're not part of the Epstein files, because it means you weren't part of the end club. That's crazy. Well, how does this war affect the momentum of the Epstein files? Because we were really getting somewhere, and then all of a sudden, you know, the war broke out. Well, Massey believes it's a total distraction, and I certainly think Trump wanted to change the headlines. You know, remember what the story was right before this bombing, that a young woman accused Donald Trump of rape when she was 13. Now, I want to be very clear. It was just an accusation, but here's what concerns me. There were four times this woman was interviewed by the FBI. Now, the FBI doesn't just interview someone four times, randomly. They obviously thought, okay, let me interview her. Fine, okay. They release one of those interviews. Three of those interviews are not released.

11:15Like, what are you hiding? What are you hiding? I'm not saying whether they're true or not, but don't you think if there are three other interview files and someone has made accusations against the President of the United States, and you're required to release all the files, you should release them? So that was the story right before Iran. Absolutely. And then we have this whole Iran war. And, you know, I believe that Donald Trump wants to talk about anything other than Epstein. And in this country, we have not had accountability. I mean, let Nick is still the Secretary of Commerce. A question, you know, people always want to know why I didn't Democrats put out the Epstein files when Biden was adopted. Can you just explain to us plainly why I didn't have it? But first of all, they should have. Like, I don't make this a Donald Trump Joe Biden Democrat Republican thing. I think having gotten to know the survivors, they've been shafted and they've been abandoned for the past 30 years. And it should have been all of us who were speaking out earlier. And I think Thomas Massey would say the same thing. Here's the problem, though.

12:15It took a law of Congress because the Justice Department couldn't release those files without Congress. There's a law or a policy of justice that says if you do not charge someone, you can't release the files. So, under the Justice Department with Mary Garland, they had to come to Congress and say, hey, pass this law so we can release it. And it just was not something they did. Pambani was being, if she was being honest, she would have said, look, yeah, I want to release these files, but I can. I need Congress to act. Instead, they fought a tooth and nail to prevent us from releasing these files. But I don't, you know, we, if you look at the press conferences we had with the survivors, Trump, and in the beginning, we were pleading with Trump. This was not partisan. We had survivors, Hailey Robeson, who voted for Trump, who said, Mr. President, you'll be the greatest president. Please release the files. We want justice. Why do the Marjorie Telegreen was on this? She wasn't in it to try to get Trump. She said, Donald Trump, you're going to be the greatest.

13:15You're going to be the president who actually releases the files. She actually thought Trump would do it. It only became against Trump when he called it a hoax, when he refused to release these files, when he's refused to have any prosecution or investigation. So I think what made this powerful from a perspective of the Democratic Party is I would argue it is the first time Democrats since Donald Trump came down the escalator have tried to actually work with anyone who's a Trump voter. And said, like, yeah, we hear you. Yeah, there are a bunch of corrupt elites or in our government. And they're shifting you and we're going to call them out. And you know what happened when we did that, we actually got a coalition that got Maggot to split with Donald Trump. What do you all hope to accomplish though? Because I saw Nancy may say yesterday that nobody's going to be held accountable. Like she said, she has no faith in the justice system whatsoever. Nothing is going to happen. Well, there are two, first of all, around the world, people have been held accountable, right? Former Prince Andrew. We're here in America as you were talking about.

14:16Yeah. But in America, people have been held accountable in terms of losing their jobs. Now, I don't think that's enough. But, you know, you had the head of a major law firm, loses job, Goldman Sachs lawyer. You've had people resign in powerful corporate positions. But, you know, Nancy Mason and I are actually partnering to get two subpoenas out. One to Bill Gates, because he's got a question to answer. And that shows, by the way, that this is not partisan. Bill Gates has contributed a lot more to Democrats than he has contributed to Republicans. And one to Howard Lutnik. And Lutnik was there with his entire family doing allegedly business with Epstein well after Donald Trump had said that Epstein is doing terrible things with young girls. And he's got him in the cabinet. So, do I believe that people will be held accountable, not under this Attorney General, not under Pambondi? But what we need is a, the next president, to actually appoint people who are going to prosecute this.

15:16By the way, there's no statute of limitations for sex trafficking. None. You brought up the Attorney General. And right before this, you talked about Mayor Garland, who of course is our past Attorney General. When you think about some of his greatest failures, it sounds like Epstein files is certainly one of them for you. But what about his failure to timely prosecute Donald Trump? Which of those do you think is the more egregious error? Well, not prosecuting Donald Trump. I mean, I, look, I respect Mayor Garland. He may have been a fine Supreme Court justice, but he was not the right person for that time for being Attorney General. He couldn't get across the page line and suggest to see that though. The vice president, you know, vice president Harris, who did find it great. And a lot of things as vice president. I mean, she would have had a very different attitude if she was Attorney General. I mean, there are other people we could have appointed who were not heard, but I'm saying of that temperament. Because you saw her question in Kavanaugh. You saw her questioning of those Supreme Court justice. That's how she became a star.

16:17She was civil, but she was tough, and she knew what was at stake. That's how she became vice president, in my view. And we needed someone of that temperament who was like, I am going to stand for justice. And by the way, when we get power again, I'm all for reconciliation. I'm all for bringing the country together, but we cannot move on without accountability. The people who have killed Alex Freddie need to be prosecuted. The people who dismantle doge against the Constitution need to be prosecuted. The people who have gotten us into wars without authorization or killed people on boats in the Caribbean. They need to be held accountable. We need accountability. And that's Epstein class needs to have prosecutions and investigations. I mean, you have less Wexner, who's in Ohio. Allegedly, he's gotten millions of dollars with ties to Epstein. And he's never been interviewed. He's never had the DOJ come and say, hey, let me ask you what happened. Bill Gates has never had someone ask him what happened.

17:17I'm not saying Bill Gates did something wrong. But if you know this person so well, who's a pedophile, and you have 1200 survivors making statements to the FBI, don't you think that someone would knock on your door or give you a phone call? I'll say, hey, what do you know? Hey. You guys recently traveled to Ohio, though, to speak with Lex Wexner, right? What were you guys hoping to find when you went to deposit? Well, I wasn't there, but Garcia and others were there. And what we wanted to know is what his extensive relationship was with Epstein. You know, he was, they were alleged ties that he was recruiting models and what that relationship was with these young girls. And were they promised modeling careers in exchange for basically being abused or raped? And, you know, he kept denying everything. But why is, why does it take a congressional committee to ask him these questions? Why is the FBI never asked any questions? And where are we on the release of the entire Epstein files?

18:17Like, I know we've released three million, three point five million, and then we're trying to get the entire files released. Yes. Where are we on that? We've released half. Mm-hmm. And the half is pretty bad. It's got the whole country talking about it. And yet the half that we haven't seen is even worse. And why is that worse? What is the stuff they haven't released, right? Without getting into all the wonkiness. It's basically the survivor's own statements to the FBI. All of these survivors, 1200 of them, they get interviewed by the FBI agents. And that's where they name names. That's where they say, you know what, this person raped me. This person abused me. Do I believe that we should just take that testimony as the word of truth? No. But that should come out. That should support an investigation. Why hasn't it come out yet? Yeah. Because it affects the reputations of everyone from allegedly the President of the United States down. That's the stuff where their names are.

19:17And by the way, you do know it's mutually assured destruction, though. It'll be all across the board. So it'll be Republicans, Democrats, donor class, corporate people, everybody. You're absolutely right, Charmaine. You know, that's how you, I know you're right. Because guess who is the person who did not want Bill Clinton to testify the most? Donald Trump. Yeah. I don't want, I don't Clinton doesn't need to testify because he knows that it's him. And guess what? Clinton says, oh, Trump didn't do anything wrong. You know, it's a club. It's a club. And those files have, you say he didn't do anything wrong? Or did he say he didn't know? He didn't know. I just want to think they're one of me. It's fair. No one's ready for this. I thought Bill was very cowardly hunting on the should Trump testify question. I thought Hillary's answer was fantastic. I thought Hillary Clinton shouldn't have not been there. That's right. That was an absurdity. I didn't go to Hillary Clinton's deposition because I thought it was absurd and sexist. And by the way, I said they treated Hillary Clinton worse than they treated Bill Clinton to Republicans.

20:20Well, Nancy Mace, right? Nancy Mace wanted her to answer how she felt watching Bill Clinton be massaged by women. Why was that Hillary Clinton's responsibility to testify? What does that have to do? That's crazy. Yeah. With the prosecution. That's nothing. I was glad Hillary was there. No, I'm glad with two. But what I'm getting at is Nancy Mace, your colleague who you spoke in very highly of based on her own experience as a survivor, to have put a wife of a former president, a former secretary of state, the person who got more votes in the popular vote count than Donald Trump in that position to humiliate her. This is a person who you've talked about working very well with. She should have to be accountable for that. I agree with that. Look, I showed my nose. We've had our disagreements with Nancy Mace. I just said on this one issue of showing courage for survivors to get the Epstein bills. She showed courage. I disagreed with how she and other Republicans handled the interview with Secretary Clinton. I think Secretary Clinton showed a lot of grace.

21:21And she didn't need to be there. She never met Epstein. And so it was absurd. I think President Clinton was honest throughout the interview. At least he sat there for six hours. And he answered those questions. I'm just saying that the reality is Trump didn't want him to do that. And all these people are very careful because there's a huge network of people who did some terrible things. And those FBI files have those names. I just didn't like when he was asked. Should Trump have to testify in front of us? And he was like, you know, that's up to you. I was surprised by that. I mean, I think you should have just said what Hillary Clinton said. Yes. I think that he's older. And I don't know that I'm not here to defend the statement when we're the other. I just think that he's older. Hillary is older. No, no, no, no, Hillary is sharp. She could run against Trump again now. I think that Hillary Clinton is literally his hand trimmer.

22:21You can see his hand. He's not the Bill Clinton that he was in the 90s or even the early 2000s. So I just think we should. That's a pretty good idea. The fact that he took six hours of questioning, never took the fifth, answered every question. And even Koma came out and said, you know, he was responsive. I do think clearly sets the precedent that Donald Trump needs to testify. Melania Trump needs to testify. And I give both the Clinton's credit for actually testifying and taking all the questions. And if you watch it, I don't know if you've watched the entire deposition of Clinton, the Democrats asked the hardest questions. There was a Melanie Stansbury and Suhas Subramanian that asked very pointed questions of President Clinton, which shows that this thing has never been partisan. And you know who it's not partisan for? It's for people who met the survivors. Melanie has been in the room with the survivors. Right. I've been in the room with survivors where they're broken down in tears in my office. It started out as an intellectual matter for me and Massey.

23:23And I'm kind of a less an emotional guy. But this thing has become very personal for me having met these survivors. And the fact that they attacked one of my guests, Haley Robeson, who I took to the state of the union. Because when she was 16, she was being abused by Jeffrey Epstein. And she was so afraid that she would go and get other junior high and high school girls to come to Epstein because that was her only way out of being abused. And she speaks about that trauma. And they're out there calling her Heidi Flice and out there calling her a pimp. I mean, no shame. Attack me fine. Attack Massey. You're attacking survivors. These survivors have shown enormous courage in what they've done. And they've been abandoned for 30 years. And they've been abandoned because rich and powerful men didn't care. And you know how they targeted these girls? They looked if the girl had a father. If they didn't, she didn't have a father. Oh, that's a good target. They looked if the girl was working class.

24:23Oh, okay. She doesn't come from money. That's a good target. They looked if the girl was a daughter of immigrants. Oh, that's a good target. They prayed on these girls in who they recruited. And you know, this whole redaction issue. They're still people even who follow it. Don't get the whole thing what they've done. So in March, the FBI swept these files. They redacted them back in March. Then my law passed with Thomas Massey. And they did a second round of redactions. The Justice Department came out and did a second round of redactions. And then they said, okay, members of Congress can see the files. And they showed us, quote unquote, the unredacted version. Meaning they showed us the versions that the Justice Department had not redacted. But guess what? All of the major redactions the FBI did in March. And those are still there. So they've hit documents. And even members of Congress are just seeing pages of blacked out with the actual information of who these men are and these files.

25:24People say, well, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. It's all a hoax. Well, then release the files. What are you hiding? Prove me a liar. But so far, the 50% of the files you've released have shown the country that this is actually much bigger than anyone thought. Why, I want to pivot to the Iran war. Why is Congress voting for a vote on Trump's war power on Congress? I mean, I feel like five, six days too late. Yeah. I mean, look, we tried to do it last week. We didn't have the votes. I didn't want to go into it and lose 20 Democrats. So we, we said, okay, well, wait. We now have more of the votes. I don't see how you can be a Democrat and vote against this. There are three or four Democrats who are on the fence. I'm hoping they're going to come on board. Who are the three or four that are on the fence? They're going to get me in trouble. Why? If we stay true to what you've been saying throughout this interview, which is, you know, this is about doing the right thing. It's not partisanship. I think it's important. One for the listeners to know who they should be calling,

26:24pressuring to do the right thing. This is a time for moral courage. It's a time for moral courage period, especially when lives are already been lost. Well, look, I mean, they, Godheimer, Landsman, Mosquits, those are the people who are being on the, on the fence. You know, some of them are upset that, you know, I went on meet the press and I said their names. I said, I wasn't trying to single you out. I'm just saying, this is a war, this is a vote of war or peace. This is as big a deal as the Iraq war. Six Americans have died. If the war powers resolution passes, does it actually stop anything? Like, what, what, what happens? So the war powers resolution would have to pass the House and the Senate and the President would have to sign it. He's not going to sign it. But, but here's, here's why it matters. Bernie and I in a war that very few people paid attention to the Yemen war. Right. We did the war powers resolution. It's the first war powers resolution that's ever passed in Congress.

27:25It passed the House. It passed the Senate. Donald Trump vetoed it. It was such a statement that Trump voluntarily stopped the refueling of Saudi planes that were killing people in Yemen because it was a statement by the Congress. So even if Trump vetoes this, if we could pass this, it would be a huge blow to his support in prosecuting the war. It would at the very least shorten the duration of the war, especially if we could get Republicans. And then if we can't get Republicans, and at the very least will show us that the Democrats are the anti-war party. I have never seen a more dishonest campaign that Donald Trump and JD Vance running as the pro-peace candidates. Do you remember this? Vice President Harris is going to start World War III. Yeah. No new wars. Yeah. Vice President Harris is going to get us some war in Iran. We are the pro-peace candidates. Right. They total lie. Yeah. Total lie. They lied about Epstein. They lied about being against war. Yeah.

28:25Democrats need to clearly now take the mantle of being the anti-war party. And you've warned about forever wars. So is this the way to keep that from happening? This is the way for the Democrats want to say, we're the party against these forever wars. Yeah. And if we can get some Republicans, this puts pressure on Trump to not have a five, six week war. He's not ruling out ground troops. Yeah. I talked about that too. This morning, yeah, this morning that he has the supplies for ever war. And by the way, you know, who's chairing this on quietly is China. As we are running down our ammunition in the Middle East, what do you think they're thinking when it comes to Taiwan? What do you think Putin is thinking when it comes to Ukraine? We are enmeshed in this war in the Middle East. And they are looking at this saying, okay, let the United States drain its power. And we're risking our lives. And then billions of dollars. We cost a lot of money to put an aircraft carrier there.

29:25Every plane, thank God, those service members survived from those planes that were shot down. And those are millions of dollars a pop, those planes. And people here are like, we can't get money here for housing in New York. We can't get money here for childcare. We can't get money here for basic health care, Medicaid cuts. So this is a time for more clarity. Look, I, since I've already gotten myself into a little trouble to say those names, let me get myself into the board trouble. But I say, I don't like when Democrats start out with all this procedural nonsense. Well, we don't, the, the commandeer is a terrible person. Yes, he is. And it's a complicated situation. But they need to come to Congress first. How about you saying we don't want money in American lives being wasted on another war in the Middle East? Simple. In some Congress. Why do you think Trump decided to invade Iran now? And why did he be Netanyahu? Why is Netanyahu invading now? Well, I was answering your question for you.

30:26Look, Netanyahu is wanted to do this last 30 years. He's wanted to have regime change. And he finally found a president who would go along with him. But the Senator Warner said it absolutely correctly. There was no imminent threat to the United States of America. Whether there was a threat to Israel or not, I don't know. But they don't have ICBMs. I mean, they cannot launch a weapon to missile that hits the United States. And, you know, they've been clamoring for this regime change word, Netanyahu, for the last 30 years. And why? Because they want to just punch Iran in the mouth. I mean, they don't even necessarily have a plan to get rid of the IRGC. They want to weaken the IRGC so that the IRGC cannot be a competing, Benjamin competing power in the Middle East. I get it from their strategic point of view. But really, we want Americans dying for that.

31:26And by the way, then, they're telling all these protesters take back the country with no plan. I don't understand that. You're asking me. That even mean. They're going to get slaughtered. Oh, the IRGC suddenly that have been killing all these protesters are going to give the protesters their arms. Come on. Basically, have no plan to get rid of the IRGC. And then you're telling the protesters to protest knowing that they could get slaughtered by the IRGC. It is a just cynical policy. And it is it's costing lives. And for people who were tired of these war. This fast weekend, like every other Sunday, you were on the court with the guys playing bomb. Just a quick pick up game, living out your hoop dreams. No triple doubles, but me set of threes. In between buckets, one of the homies mentioned he calls on a new crib. This is big. And while everyone's asking about housewarming and making plans to celebrate, you're asking the real questions. Like has he spoken to his state farm engine yet about coverage? See, home ownership is one thing.

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36:36We keep voting against these wars. We get someone in this president and somehow they get talked into these wars. I was shocked when I was on Meet the Press. The lead guest was Lindsey Graham. It's like the guy never leaves. They wash it. It's just like a fixture. That's a Trump beat him. Trump ran against him at 16 saying, you know, Lindsey, no, we're done with these wars. The only reason he became president is sat there with Jeb Bush saying, your brother screwed up. Your brother got us in these wars. I'm against these wars. And now Lindsey Graham is the face of the Republican for policy. At least Lindsey is consistent. At least he's cheerleaders into every war. By the way, he's so consistent that Christopher Walker thought she had a gotcha mama with him. She said, oh, Lindsey, you think we're in war with the run? He said, yes, I do. She says, well, then, shouldn't you be for the war power's resolution? He said, no, I think the war power's resolutions on constitutional. I think the president can just start any war he wants. Wow. I mean, that's Lindsey Graham's worldview. But Lindsey Graham was not elected president on its dates.

37:36And he never would be elected president on its dates. But they lied to people saying they were going to be pro-peace. They got elected. And now Lindsey Graham is setting foreign policy. And, you know, what saddens me is this is what erodes trust. Because the next person who comes in, I don't care if they're a Democrat or Republican, America people are just going to roll their eyes. Ah, you know, we've heard all that stuff before. We've heard the stuff against the endless wars. We've heard the stuff about releasing the Epstein files. We've heard the stuff about taxing the billionaires. Doesn't seem to change. They get in there and then they forget everything they promised. And I don't want a politician is our government that seems to be holding to other politicians and other governments. I don't care if it's Russian or Putin. I don't care if it's, you know, Israel and that and Yahoo. Like, I just don't, I don't like that. I really do want us to be America first. Well, absolutely. We should look at our interests. And by the way, if you think that the interest as well, Iran is posing a threat to Israel. And there's some, I don't even believe that they actually had the capability to go and strike Israel.

38:38But if you really believe that, then be honest with the American people. We are, we are taking this action because Iran is going to strike Israel within three weeks and we want to defend Israel. If that's the reason, but you can't lie to people. You can't say, oh, this is going to be a threat to the United States of America. This is to protect the protesters when the protesters are still being slaughtered by the IRGC. And lie about what's going to come next. They have no answer for what's going to come next in that region. Another battle that you have spent some time talking about is term limits. And I think this is an important conversation because when you're at home and you're thinking about people who are older and Congress, how old some of our members of Congress are, you think they should leave. As a former executive director of the CBC, which is a Congressional Black Caucus, I know the only reason why we had chairs of committees is because of seniority.

39:40Yes. Which if you support seniority, you can't support term limits. Yes. Because you'll never really arrive to the to the gavel to the chairman seat. No. How do you threat that needle? Especially now because so many members, potentially even you, leave a seat to run for higher office. Jasmine Crockett, who's in a primary today, for Senate C. I've endorsed her. Well, how do you think that's going to turn out? Well, I'm hopeful for Jasmine. Yeah. But we have Jasmine has just got there. And she's, you know, become a fan favorite for holding it down in a committee room for some of the legislation she's introduced. She's brilliant. No, in terms of her, just turn up a phrase. Because I was then ready to ask you about you, potentially seeking higher office. Right. So if you're for term limits, but you leave before you get the gavel. Yeah. Does it really support the needs of your constituents of the American people? Yeah. Well, let me answer both of your questions. Yeah. First of all, on term limits, I think this is a, the best argument against them.

40:40And I've supported 12 years for House members, 12 years for senators. But the reality is with particularly the Black community. Black candidates had a very hard time getting elected statewide. The place that they could actually build political power was in the House of Representatives. And they had to claw their way into seniority. And you finally have people like Benny Thompson and Bobby Scott, chairing committees, Gregory Meeks. And Maxine Waters and you say, well, come on, you're going to, you can't just take away the one place that the Black community has built power after years of segregation and discrimination. And that's why I think any proposal needs to be grandfathered in. I don't, I do not believe it should apply to the current people who have spent literally their lives fighting for equality. But going forward, the reason I believe it's necessary is otherwise you get people who just have the connections to the fundraising. And it becomes very hard for new people to come in without those term limits. But I would grandfather in any, any proposal.

41:40So it doesn't affect people who are currently chairs or who have spent their whole lives working towards that. I was, you know, I'm lucky to be named the ranking member of the China committee. If I, if we win back the House, I would finally get one of those gavils 12 years in. And I've got to win my campaign. I don't take anything for granted in terms of my own primary. But, you know, I would do a good job as chair of that committee. In terms of a higher office, I mean, first let's get through the midterms. Let's make sure we win the House. Let's make sure that we, that I win my race. Let's make sure that we, you know, I actually do get the gavel. But if I run, I would, I would run because I think we need people who are going to stand up to the billionaire class, the Epstein class. In a new gilded age. And I see these people, I know these people, the third of the stock market is in my district. One third of the wealth is in my district. I see the economic future.

42:40And I've had the guts to stand up to them. I know the technology. And I want to make sure that we actually have every person and every community benefiting. And it will be an uphill underdog campaign if I were to run. And you're saying run for president, right? If I did, if I did. But do you think that you would be formidable against Gavin Newsom? What set you apart from Gavin Newsom? Well, we have difference of philosophy. I mean, look, I Gavin has done a good job in standing up to Donald Trump. So I'm not going to say negative things about him. But I would just say, look, I'm for taxing billionaires more. He's not. I'm for single-payer health care. He's not. I am for a free universal child care at $10 a day. He's not. I come from a more economically populist vision. I've spent a lot of time figuring thinking about how do we create good paying jobs and factory towns and I call for economic patriotism and partnering with HBCUs and tech companies to create economic opportunity for those left out. So he has his strengths. But my view is the Democrats need to go in a more economically populist direction

43:47to be able to win back the country. What about lobbyists? Because, you know, one thing that you've been hearing a lot lately is, you know, people who are very upset at folks who take money from, you know, APEC. So why is APEC taking money? I mean, why has APEC money become so toxic for politicians? Yeah. One other philosophical difference that then I answered that question. I thought Charlie Kirk's murder was horrendous. And I condemned it unequivocally. But I do not believe Charlie Kirk should be celebrated as a model for young men in America. I do not believe that his views that Ketanji, the Supreme Court Justice, Ketanji, Brown Jackson and Michelle Obama have less brain power than white Americans is something to be celebrated. And so, you know, there is also a difference in our party in how we talk about race in America.

44:49In terms of APEC, I mean, they don't like me. There's spending money against me. I don't believe that we should be taking money from APEC. I believe we should be very clear that what happened in Gaza was a genocide. That we should not be providing military weapons and sales to Israel to kill brown people in Palestine. That we need to enforce the lay he laws. I mean, that's another area of difference between some of us in the Democratic party and others. I hear people say that they're not going to vote for somebody who takes money from APEC. And my response to that is, well, who are you going to vote for? Because damn, they all don't take money from APEC. It's changing. It's changing. I think I might be surprised if from 26 and even in 28, whether many Democratic candidates take money from APEC. My guess is that will be something that most members of Congress say, no, we're not going to take money from APEC and most people who run for president are going to say, we're not going to take money from APEC.

45:51But I don't think it's just about APEC. Are you willing to call it a genocide? Because if you're not willing to call it a genocide and all these people saw what happened on their phones, well, then how can we trust you to really say the moral truth? Are you willing to say we're not going to give military weapons to Israel that are being used to kill civilians? Are you willing to say that we're going to recognize a Palestinian state? And, you know, I believe in a multi-racial vision of America. You know, one of the funniest headlines that happened in this whole Epstein thing is, you know, how many of you may remember my grandfather was part of Gandhi's Independence Movement and was in jail in the 1930s and the 1940s. And that, of course, inspires Dr. King, Mordecai Johnson had gone to India, comes back in 1949. It gives a speech and King at the time is at the closer seminary in Pennsylvania and he learns about Satya Grine and Gandhi and he has a Gandhi reader in Bible everywhere. But there was an article in the British Press saying the long tales of colonialism.

46:53Tana's grandfather jailed by the British monarchy, grandson in Congress may bring down the British monarchy. I'm not trying to bring it down, but Prince Andrew, you know, former Prince was arrested. So I come at politics understanding historical oppression. But our members are afraid of what happened to Cory Bush if by saying, you know, that they're not going to take money from APAC, that they're standing against what's happening to the Palestinians. Is that a fear though? Cory Bush was two years ahead of her time. My brother Jamal Bowman was ahead of his time. Jamal Bowman would have won today. You know, they just did those things at a time where it was a huge political price to pay. But the politics of this has changed in a way that I can't even describe over the last six to nine months. It's gone from being a position that was politically toxic to one that is actually politically safe.

47:56My stance against the Epstein class and my stance for a billionaire tax is of much bigger political risk now than my stance against APAC. And that politics shifted over the last six months, partly because of people like all of you who've been calling out folks for taking that money and not having clarity. Do you think it'll be a time in this country where politicians aren't beholden? Yes, but do I think, but the broader issue is, you know, we've got so much money in politics. How are politicians not going to be beholden to a moneyed interest? Yeah. And that's very hard. I mean, I, you know, I have a bill with summer lead to get rid of super PACs. We've got to figure out how we get more public financing and campaigns. Anyone in the system is to some extent compromised. I mean, you're not being honest. If you are in the political system and you don't think that raising funds, it makes you spend more time with people who have money.

49:03So that's a much broader challenge. And even if, by the way, someone wins for the presidency on a progressive platform, you know what the money and interest do. They find the one senator. They find the one committee chair in the house to block it. That's why half a Biden's agenda was blocked by Manchin or cinema. I mean, but Biden was way more progressive than the House and the Senate were. So there's money in politics beyond APAC is an enormous issue. And it's a, it's the cardinal sin of our, of our political system. I always thought this should have been a cap. And people run this should be a cap amount of money that people can use. Because like you said, if I go this way with APAC, I'm going to get unlimited funds. Then you look at Cory Bush that can, there's no way that she can match the funds that go against them. No possible way. You can do more small dollar donors, but also she has someone run against her who just blatantly lied and said he wasn't running against her. Yes, he did. Shout out to Wesley Bill. I'm not dressed. She's running again though. Yes, she is. I want to ask you, as you look ahead, you talked about a short-term goal,

50:06which is getting through the 2026 midterms. Well, personally and for the party. Absolutely, absolutely. So when you look down the road to the 2026 midterms, let's say it goes very well. And Donald Trump does not have his way with the elections. A federal takeover, getting the voter rolls, purging them even when they shouldn't be purged. And miraculously, Democrats went back to house. Do you see yourself supporting how Kim Jeffries is speaker? Yes. And I know he's had some criticism on this show. But I think he'll get elected unanimously. I think all parts of the party will rally behind him. And especially if we have a significant win. And the one thing with Kim is that he gives a large latitude to progressives in the caucus to go do our thing. And he doesn't have a heavy fist in saying,

51:06okay, if you're critical of Israel or if you're critical of Iran and war that please be quiet. And so I think he will have the support of the caucus. They said, did you see the story about it? They said he just got caught funneling a pack of money into Democratic primary. Is that true? I don't know if it's true or not. That's the story. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I generally don't know. My view on those primaries is that the D-triplecy should stay neutral and let the primaries fight out how they will. I don't think we should be tipping our hand on one candidate or the other. But I don't know if my sense is that he's most focused on the red districts that we can win. So I generally haven't seen that story. You think we're going to have free and fair elections? We've got to fight for it. I think D-triple tried to do everything possible to prevent it. He's going to have ice out there. He's going to intimidate election officials. We've got to uplift our election officials.

52:07We're going to be facing threats. He's going to try to get people kicked off. The voter rolls so they don't have registration or polling places when they show up. But we've got one going to make it too big to rig. We've got to win by a decisive margin. We've got to win by 20 seats. And we've got to have people being election observers showing up at polling places. I guess what I say is, is it going to be challenging? Yes. Is it as challenging as what Jim Clyburn and John Lewis went through? No. I mean, you know, it's as challenging when my grandfather went through. No. Like, this is our fight. This is our fight for democracy. Every generation has a fight. We can win this fight. But yeah, he's going to try every trick in the book to disenfranchise people. This one feels different. This feels different. Like, I've been here in my whole life. You know, it's got to make it too big to rig. Like, you've got to have the largest voter turnout. That don't feel like that's cool. Especially with things like the Save America Act, right? Yeah. So how does that work when he's implementing all of these things

53:07to keep people from being able to just vote legally in the wrong district? Yes. So they can vote for someone who represents their interests. I wonder if he does that executive audition he was talking about with you. Yeah. Control over the election. Well, we got to make sure that the Senate holds, right? They're trying to get the Senate to pass the Save Act by getting rid of the filibuster. And, you know, the Save Act basically would put attacks on every woman who's married in this country because you'd have to go literally with your marriage certificate to show that you had your proper registration. And that would depress women turnout. By the way, there are some states that recognize a hunting license to vote but don't accept a student ID, right? So it's going to hurt young people voting. But I believe we can prevent the Save Act from passing the Senate. We have to fight to make sure that's true. But look, I'm not underestimating the risks. Like, this is a guy who did mid-disc, mid-decade redistricting. No one thought he would do that. I didn't think he would do that. Like, we don't even know what he's thinking in terms of what he could do. And then Johnson can refuse to seat people.

54:07I mean, he refused to seat Adelita Grahava to prevent the vote on the Epstein files. Imagine if he's speaker of the House, and there's a close race, 1,000 votes. You just said, I'm not going to seat this person. I think he does tell us what he's going to do. I just don't think we're listening all the way, right? He says it out loud. Yeah, but look, what tools do we have? I mean, what can we do? We need election observers. We need to uplift election officials. We need to be anticipating that he's going to have ice. We did it in New Jersey. We did it in Virginia. We did it in California with Prop 50. The good news is we do have a lot of Democratic governors are going to be in charge in a lot of these states. So we need to prepare that it's a battle. And then when we take back the House, at least, then we can start to call our way back. Because then it'll be the House that then certifies the election in 2028. We don't win the House. We're in a world of hurt. Y'all get all that power back. It was going to take some real courage. I mean, I've seen you displayed. I've seen a... That's what's his name? Somnily? Somerly.

55:07Somerly. You know, people like Anaphora. There's people with courage. But you have a lot of people with courage that are going to do what needs to be done. I'm talking about like impeaching, holding people accountable, prosecuting people, asking for arrests, things like that. I'm impeaching. It's a table stakes. I mean, we got to get... We got to have impeachment. But I'm with you. We got to have accountability in this country. We never had accountability for the bankers that crashed the economy. We never had accountability for the people who tortured folks in Iraq or lied our way into Iraq. We did not have accountability for all these people in the F-steam class. We've got to have accountability. You were part of Doge that dismantled USA that led to 500,000 deaths. It's not just, okay, let's move on. And by yeah, we need to make sure that they're prosecutions. You were part of killing American citizens or immigrants or violated human rights and detention centers. There need to be investigations and prosecutions. If you were part of the killing of people in the Caribbean or Boatsman, there's got to be investigation and prosecution.

56:10I'm all for reconciliation. But before reconciliation usually comes truth. It's truth and reconciliation. And the American people are tired of a system of a lack of accountability. That's why this Epstein stuff has been resonating because it's like, finally, they're trying to have people accountable who think they're above the law, who think that they don't have to play by the rules. So I do believe though there are going to be people whether it's Ayanna, whether it's Somerli, whether it's Robert Garcia, whether it's Greg Kuzar, there are Pramila Jaipal, there are a number of us in the house who are going to insist on accountability. And the chips will fall where they may be. What's scary though is that, you know, like Republicans know that they're not just going, they're going to try everything in power to make sure they get these made terms so that doesn't happen. Yeah, that's why Trump's saying that he knows that. He knows that his presidency is on the line. And his life in terms of accountability is on the line in terms of prosecutions and investigations.

57:14And so he will do everything in his power to hold on to power. I mean, they know, they've known for the past 20, 30 years that there's a changing demographic in America. Obama spooked them in a very visceral way. And they said, okay, how do we hold on to power? What do we have to do on the Supreme Court? What do we have to do in the Senate? What do we have to do on voting rights? How do we hold on to power for the next 50 years knowing that this country's demographics are changing? And they don't even hide it. Stephen Miller is like, yeah, there are too many brown people in America. There are too many foreign board. He said that. He tweets back and forth to me. Yeah, I mean, it's not about undocumented. It's just too many people. They fundamentally reject the 1965 act, which allowed my parents to come here. Where they think that too many people from non-European countries showed up in the United States. And it scares them. What about a Thomas Massey Rollconnett ticket? I've been hearing that the last couple of weeks. Are you promoting it?

58:15I did have a conversation last week on my podcast about it. Because somebody in the room bought it up. What do you think about a Thomas Massey Rollconnett ticket? Yeah, I tell you what I like about Thomas Massey. Who would be the top in the bottom? Who knows? I just asked what he was going to do. He's got to have a girlfriend. I didn't even go there. I didn't even go there. I didn't even go there. I didn't even go there. Don't mind it. What would be the top of the bottom in that? Thomas Massey says we're a Christmas card every year. And it's got his family with semi-automatic weapons outside of Christmas tree. We've got a lot of disagreements. But the thing that people like is that we are willing to stop war. We're willing to hold accountable rich and powerful people who broke the law. And, you know, I think we have a powerful method to the country. People want some sense of coming together. So you never know in American politics.

59:17Have you ever talked about it? Yeah, jokingly. He sends me an account of Massey or Massey account bumper stickers that are out there. There's something he saw in the Epstein class. There was someone had a banner of the Epstein class and these bumper stickers. But I don't think it's about Massey and me as much as it's about this sense in this country that things are broken. And here's what I think they like about Massey. When we look across the aisle, we defied at times our own party. We're willing to risk our seats. Like, if they say, okay, we're likely to win, but 60-40. It's not 90-10, right? We're willing to take on fights. And if we both say, okay, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. We'll go back and we'll have a great lives otherwise. And I just think people want that. They want independence. They want folks who are going to take a risk. They want folks who kind of say what they believe. What did you. I'm sorry but I can't say.

1:00:17I've I have a pointedness of of of of Republican. Do you trust him answer the ride on trust, Thomas? Uh, first of all, have you won? No, not yet. I don't know what he just, he's a troll. I don't know. I don't know. I don't trust him. Jesus. Where were we talking about? We were talking about a hit. He's going to take it. Yes. right? Abortion rights and and and and immigrant rights and reasonable gun violence civil civil civil rights. I don't know his record on either do I? So you know I so you can't just say okay you know how do you have a ticket? Well it depends well where he stands although some of those those key issues but I'd say in my interaction with him on the issues I've interacted with him he's trustworthy and then when he tells you he's going to do something he does it he keeps his word and he doesn't politicize it and so that that to me me goes a long lay in in a Congress in terms

1:01:20of just his character. I'm really quickly we are still in a partial government shutdown because Democrats want you know different they want restrictions for eyes where are we on that I mean should we fund the government or should we hold out for those restrictions that that dims one on ice? We should not be giving more money to ice I mean Donald Trump already has 75 billion dollars for ice and it's a rogue agency it's an agency that is out there killing Americans killing people are undocumented having people in these detention says I went to one of these detention says California City detention center there's someone who had blood in his urine in a medical care for seven days there's a guy with a broken nose came up to me and no health care by the way they know these people aren't criminals you know how I know they aren't criminals because they had me in with 47 of these people in a room with no prison ward. Damn you know I they wouldn't do that if you were in this kind of high security prison where people like him in murders or robbery these are not these are not criminals in the sense that people think of the criminals and

1:02:22yet they're being mistreated so why would we give another dollar to that kind of agency? We had immigration enforcement from 1940s to 2003 the INS under the Justice Department where people were crane whether the same standards and law enforcement we've got to have that kind of agency again and then you have better intelligence sharing because 9-11 happened so you got to have intelligence sharing but I don't believe that the ice the way it's functioning is should be a get an additional dollar yeah a real kind of we appreciate you for joy man you know some good information this morning thank you so I remember you told me like a a year ago we were having a conversation and I was you need me to say what I was saying but you you said that the work was going to you know prove yourself and I think that you're doing that right now I appreciate you I appreciate it your conversation you know look I I just think that there's I don't know which way this country is going to go but here's what I know we've had a lot of showmen in our politics we got a lot of people who dumped their chest to know how to message or

1:03:29you know have conventional obeyed to charm people and it ain't working people's lives aren't getting better that's right we're getting into these wars right and they're not standing up against real power and all I know is we need actual substance we need actual people are going to take on real fights not performative fights and do real things and actually stand up for for people and that means why you get into politics that's what I told you I told them he's not charismatic enough you know I have a personality but he said the work will show what's up all right well thank you Mrs. Leroy thank you Mimi Brown Rokana it's the breakfast club good morning success starts with your drive an American public university is here to fuel it with affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward whether you're changing careers starting fresh or pursuing a life long passion our programs are designed for people who never stop you bring the fire APU will

1:04:34fuel the journey learn more at apu.apus.edu it's Ryan Seacrest here from on air with Ryan Seacrest this message brought you by pizza hut just casually mentioned the words how about a pizza tonight and watch out quickly you grab everybody's attention for only ten bucks the ten dollar any at pizza hut even let you choose your favorite crust can tossed thin and crispy original pan or tavern style and up to five toppings for a limited time try the ten dollar any from pizza hut carry out a large pizza with your choice of crust and up to five toppings for ten dollars for limited time at participating locations order online or in the app this is Chelsea handler from dear Chelsea after the big game like most people I kept thinking about the commercials and there was one that stayed with me it was from the blue square alliance against hate and it wasn't loud or flashy it showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it as someone who was Jewish that moment felt very real to me not dramatic just familiar and what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself but the

1:05:36impact is still huge if you saw the blue square spot during the big game it's worth thinking about and if you want to show support sharing the blue square is one small way to do that ready to discover what's next the South by Southwest innovation conference returns to Austin March 12th through 18th connect with leaders and visionaries driving the future of technology design business and culture experience thought-provoking sessions hands-on workshops in networking that sparks collaboration and creativity unlock a 10% discount on your innovation badge when you use code iHeartInnovation at sxsw.com slash iHeart discount a badge price only not combinable terms apply that ugly red couch you've had for a decade it's been living with you way longer than you ever thought it would because let's face it great quality furniture just feels out of reach or it used to until you found home sense the days of overpaying for good taste are done now you can fill your home with the standout pieces you've coveted but couldn't afford and you can finally

1:06:41kick that sad sofa straight to the curb welcome to home sense the home of no compromise this isn't iHeart podcast guaranteed human guaranteed human