iCIMS Hacks: Understanding Integrations & Developer Tools

0:00All right, let's go ahead and get started. Welcome, everybody, to System Edmund Insights, a community of highly creative, Isom System Administrators, and welcome to anybody who's joining us for the first time today. Thanks for checking this out. We are recording this session, and it will be posted to the Isom's channel here in Circle by Monday, so you can go check it out at any time. If you can't attend one of our sessions, we have an all archive there, and the audio from the session will be posted to the SAI podcast, so you can also listen to it there. Link's on the lower left-hand corner of the Circle platform. We like to start out every session with a little bit of gratitude, so you can open up the chat, and I am personally very grateful for Caitlin Fale, who hasn't joined us yet, but I'll tell her again later. So Caitlin is our COO at IRD, and Caitlin has successfully transitioned us to a new payroll and accounting provider. And as we all know, transitions are a lot of work to do them right,

1:01and she has done an extraordinary job, so very grateful to you, Caitlin, for that. Angela says, grateful for warmer weather coming soon this spring, indeed, indeed. Vivian is among her many talents, is she is a pro gardener. She is a very, very green thumb. Patrick says, grateful for our company TA Manager, who has great ideas and open to suggestions, being open to suggestions is key. That's wonderful. Caitlin, hi. Paul, cano pedicures, you got the volcano pedicure? Great. You deserve it. Greg says melting snow, what else says, yes. Marigold seeds in the ground last weekend. We are all into plants. Love it. Okay. So before we get started, a quick reminder that if you'd like to receive Schirm credit for attending the session today, we will post the code as a comment on the video by Monday. So just go to the Isom's channel and filter for recordings and a reminder that you submit that code to Schirm directly to receive your credit.

2:02Later this session, we're gonna be giving away a free paperback copy of from zero to ATS hero, the accidental admins journey written by our very own Vivian Larson. It is a, it's really sort of like there it is. There it is. And it's the thing that I wish I had when I did my first Isom's implementation 10 years ago. It goes through everything you possibly need to know. And as a matter of fact, we are building a certification course around it. So just teasing that a little bit, that is plan to be released at the beginning of May. We will keep letting you know more about that as we get closer to that date. But with that said, Vivian, you have some stuff to share with us today for another episode of Now You Know. Yep. Okay. We've been doing a series on the developer site. And we've gotten through a couple of different pieces of the developer site on the Now You Know's. And for those of you that are just joining, Now You Know is a session that we do where we pick a topic that is Isom's related,

3:04whether it's a field-based, it's like how you can use certain fields in the system or how you can use features of the system. And then we just do like a little 15 minute, many tutorial on it. They're available under events. I'm seeing under courses as individual lessons. So if you wanna go back and look at previous Now You Know's, they're all available as part of the library to be part of this community. But today is Now You Know. We're gonna be continuing the series that we've been doing on the Isom's developer site. And the goal of covering the developer site in such depth is giving everybody just an idea of what's possible and where to start if something comes across your desk that is involving an integration. So we've already covered a couple of different moving parts on the developer site. We've covered getting started. We've covered some of the different moving pieces associated with it. Let me get sharing working here. Sharing is not cooperating. Well, share window. Do you need me to share the thing that you sent in Slack for me? Not just yet. Oh, yeah. That's not, yep. Stop.

4:06All right, hold on. So it does this to me when I have the circle window in the same window I am trying to share. So let me try to share a different window. Oh, one. Oh, no, no, no, no. We're still infinite. Yeah, it was not doing that to me last time we shared. A lot of share screen. Share entire screen. There we go. Sorry about this. Always technical. We see circle. Cover, say the right piece. So just as I was saying, courses all of our past now you know is right here. But for today, we're going to continue covering the developer resources site. So if you've not logged in here, you need a username and password. It is not the same username and password as your ice-synchism username and password. So if you've not previously logged into the developer community, I am going to drop the community link into chat and then encourage everyone to go and create their profile in the developer community. There's a lot of really good resources.

5:07If you look at the now you know from about four weeks ago, I covered that this is a good place to get to release notes and some of the up and coming schedules for up and coming improvements in ice-synch. So there's a lot of really good. There's a lot of meat here. So I really recommend you spend some time deep diving into this because you can find a lot of getting information about ice-synch that helps you inform some of the decisions that you're making as far as needs that are upcoming. But for today, we're going to cover the applications piece and this is really, we haven't touched on this one just yet. And the reason for that is it's meaty and it locked me out. All right. So this applications piece covers the three different kinds of integrations that ice-synch allows. They are applicant tracking. So with the core ATS, offer management has its own set of integrations and onboarding. Onboarding and offer management, they're very minimal. You see that there's only one line next to each one

6:09because more often than not, what is included in them is just the documents themselves being able to extract them into an ATS. And so more often than not, onboarding and offer management, onboard does have a couple of bolt-ons such as I9 integration and I've seen Watsi integrations with different providers and onboarding. Those are all covered under the marketplace and vendor. But onboarding by itself is typically just getting the finished documents from ISIMS into a secondary system. So I'm not gonna go into too much depth on these guys because there's only one thing here and you're more than welcome to go digging yourself. There's a lot of meat here. So we're gonna spend most of our time here today. So before you get too deeply into these, I want you to understand the core types of integrations that ISIMS, I'm not saying this is the only kinds of integrations, but the core types of ISIMS integrations that ISIMS allows. So there's three of them.

7:10And typically the two of them that you are going to build are either a REST API or an SFT P-flat file. In very rare instances, there's a streaming integration. There was a feature called DataStream that they were promoting around 2020. So some of you may have it. It is being sundown. REST API is a kind of integration that you see when you need more real-time actions. So essentially, instead of waiting on a schedule, which is what SFT P-flat file are typically set up where you can set them up. Every hour, SFT P-flat file can be hourly, but REST API is instantaneous. So a user takes an action in the system and that action can immediately sent to a secondary system. So the biggest difference between REST API and flat file is that REST API is typically immediate.

8:13It can be real-time and it reads and writes information. So REST API can write information in the ISIMS platform, not just the secondary platform that you're integrating with. Whereas SFT P-flat file can import information into the ISIMS system, but not necessarily right to one specific field. So let me give you an example. If you have a REST API integration within your offer details tab, where you have a secondary payroll system that is doing all of your payroll calculations that writes back to the offer details tab what the offer amount possibilities are, I've seen these configured by trigger status. So you have a status that says, offer approval or basically creating offer. And that triggers an integration out to the payroll system that comes back into offer management and writes into offer management on the offer details tab the different pieces of potentially offerable information.

9:15That would be a REST integration because you're writing direct information into specific fields for one candidate in real time. Whereas an SFT P-flat file would be more like sending information out of the system to export new hires into your HRIS. And then moving that information in the HRIS to an employee profile and sending the data back into ISIMS in a batch where there's one or two or however many hires in a day to update the employee tab with all of the relevant information associated with those hires. So I'm going to pause here. Any questions? I think you had a metaphor once about the different types of APIs. A REST API was kind of like a phone call. And do you remember that metaphor? It was really good. Not off the top of my head. I got to work. One was like texting and one was like a phone call, right? Yeah, I actually think that was your metaphor.

10:16Oh, OK, great. Yeah, a phone call versus a sample. Good metaphor, I barely have forgotten it. All right, I'll work on that one, sorry. That's fine. So that's REST API versus SSTP file. Those are the two that you really do need to concern yourself with because they're the ones that ISIMS is most likely to use. There are a couple of different types of API integrations out there. These are the only ones ISIMS really does. So the next thing is the different methods. So in a REST API, you're going to have conversations with folks who are starting to do the integration. And they're going to use terms like post, put, patch, get, and delete. These are all different actions that take place in an API integration. And so those actions, a get is a read or retrieve of data. It pulls information without changing anything. It is repeatable and safe. A create sends new data to create a record.

11:20Each call creates a new entity. So a create would be an instance where we were creating a job template within ISIMS. You could do a create post if that was an API. Those are typically flat file. A put is a way to replace information that is in a record. And you see this overrides entire record. What that means is the entire record that it is being mapped to. So that could be the entire record of data in one field. That doesn't mean they're rewriting, overwriting an entire person profile. Partial update is a patch. It means you're only updating individual fields that you send, everything else stays put. A delete removes entire records. So I have seen deletes written for folks that have integrations with their HIS where they have basically sundowning rules. So that's a database maintenance piece. But I've seen some automations around companies

12:23not wanting to keep employee records beyond five to 10 years. Five years is a little early. Seven is more common, 10 years is the long term. And essentially, the system just basically deletes all this kind of integration deletes all employee records that are aged out of a certain defined timeframe. So that you don't have to sit in the ISIMS system and manually remove all of these different kinds of records. From the ISIMS system over time. So I've seen that kind of thing. I don't see deletes written very often for any other reason. All right, so this little document is something that we're going to share in a post on circle after the call here for everyone to take away. Going back here, now that you understand the basics of arrest versus a flat file, these are the different things that you're going to want to really deep dive into. So the applicant tracking integrations that are available are all listed out on developer site.

13:27And the data models are important for you to know because ISIMS has a very specific language. And if you don't speak the same language as support, it can very often be difficult for them to understand what you're trying to ask for. And that somewhat syntax translation error leads to a lot of frustration. So if you say you want to update a form, you mean an eye form. And I know that miniature change might not necessarily seem like a big thing to you, but there are other kinds of forms in the system. There are interview scheduler forms. There are forms, some people actually call there offer details to have forms. Some folks call the approval page forms. So you want to try to be as specific to ISIMS language as possible when interacting with the support desk because it will help you avoid some of those lost in translation errors where you spend a little bit of time trying to figure out what each other is asking for. And so a clear definition of what a lot of them are

14:29is right here. An event, for instance, in ISIMS is any action that takes place. And so this clearly outlines for you all of the different kinds of events that you could potentially integrate with. So if you see a plus sign here on the right-hand side on the events tab, it basically explains all of the different fields that are individually possible to integrate with. So for instance, this additional details is not something that you could potentially integrate with. Whereas category is something that you could integrate with. Each one of these little values that is written here essentially means that there could potentially be information within category you could integrate with. Here is a flat file type in this case. And each one of these individually outlines what the potential output would be. So for instance, this is a currency field, which is why you don't often see a lot of information in it. And date, not.

15:31So if it says NA, it means that the output of that information is not available in this kind of a format. And so what essentially these mean is that this is a single select list options field type. And that's a real important call up for me when it comes to integrations. If you are ever planning to integrate a dropdown menu in the future, don't use single select fields. Always use list options fields. Because list options fields gives me a node ID for each value, which means that when I am doing an integration with that particular field, I'm consistently writing the same value over and over again and not creating additional noise in your system. So in the single select fields, I can't, for instance, if I would want to write this category, this is a bad example, but if I would want to write this category from a secondary system into Isems,

16:33if it were just a single select field, I could not send this particular career value data set. I could send career value as a text value. And potentially that's where you get a lot of places where you're creating multiple of the same values in a system. Whereas with a list node, I can send this list node and it will know to match it to the career fair value that's already in that list node. So I wish we could hide the single select options type. Everything should be a list node for the sake of future integrations in my personal opinion. So I'm going to shut up any questions. I'll link you up with a question. So what sort of customers are, who is this most appropriate for? Because some customers are going to want to offload this and have somebody else do it. Some customers are going to really respond to this level of visibility and granularity in terms of what you can access just through the developer site. Is there an inflection point where you feel like it's really appropriate for a customer to be in here

17:33and doing this sort of work in terms of company size or maturity? Anyone who ever has any intention of building any kind of integration should be familiar with this site. It's not a size, it's not a complexity. Now the level of depth that you are going to go into this, reading every single one of these, understanding all of the different call types. No, don't spend your time doing that unless you have a real reason to know know where you can get to the information here, know how to get to the information, be familiar with navigating it, but you don't necessarily need to read every single one of these. What's more important to smaller customers is this developer marketplace where you can see the different kinds of integrations. And then once you've decided what kind of integration you want was what we covered last time. So for instance, background screen, the different kinds of partners, background check integrations

18:34that are available there. That is something that you, this isn't the same as ISIM's marketplace where it tells you all of the different vendors who are available. This is ISIM's basically like the particular types of integrations and how they would individually map the, why is that not cooperating? Sorry, I'm driving everybody crazy. I'm going to start making everyone nauseous and go back to this one. So it just doesn't want to show that, I'm trying to click on it and it doesn't want to show it anyway. So the customer, this is not necessarily a customer size or a break point type of question. It's more, have you been tapped or asked to do any kind of integration? And if you have, it's important that you understand where to find the information for your vendor. When your vendor's starting to ask questions about what kind of integrations they can do and what's available. That makes sense. Peter had a question. He said you're talking about field types, right? I'm not sure. In this case, I'm talking about field types. So you're saying that it's better to do drop down single

19:38to like versus single to like list options? No, I'm saying the latter, the opposite. It's better to do list options. Right, right. Okay, okay, I put in the screenshot in the chat. I think, okay. Okay, that's helpful. Okay. So I've taken up about 20 minutes of our call here today. I don't want to bore everybody with going through each and every individual one of these. The only thing that you want to call out here is the concept of an event is an important thing when it comes to any kind of integration in the sense that an event is an action that is taking place on the Isim's side. So an event is moving status to a workflow. An event is changing the values in a field. An event is creating a job or creating a profile. So as far as Isim's is concerned, there's only certain types of event types

20:39that are available for integration. And that's if you look at event notifications, this is more familiar, this would be something that's more familiar to everyone here. These are all of the types of actions that can trigger an integration event. So if I am looking, so the event data model is field-based information, the event notification data model is action-based information. So the difference between these two is, I've changed the values in a field and I want to call that field or send that field out by a flat file or API. An event notification is, I have the candidate has completed their application. Someone has edited the job. Someone has posted the job. The job has been unposted. Someone has completed an onboarding portal task or someone has updated a workflow status. And in all of those cases, I can trigger an integration off of any one of these events in the system. So a lot of your integrations themselves

21:41are built based on events. And that's one of the reasons why they won't open event notifications up to General Admin because it is a place that they can't segregate between the ones that are you facing, customer admin facing and back end facing as far as building and modifying existing integrations. So it would be very easy to break existing integrations if people had access to this area of the system. So that's about as deep as I want to go for today. Does anybody have any more questions about the developer site or any questions about the different types of models of integrations? Yeah. Or any issues that have come up with integrations recently? Mm-hmm. I have a question. It's a little bit general, but I have two different pending API connector integrations. And the project manager from ISIMS reached out to us ahead of time

22:42with a bunch of questions that I don't know how to answer. Basically, it's a part of the kickoff. I'm going to see if I can find them quickly. But I guess the biggest question is where do I go to find this information? Because when I talk to my account manager about the questions and sorry, I'm trying to pull it up so that I can reference it. I didn't quite have it ready. Okay, actually I do have the questions. Like, so we talked to our account manager. We understood on a high level like what was possible with the integration. We requested it. We get in the queue for the kickoff, but we don't really know what it is because we haven't talked to anybody about it. And so then suddenly, they're asking you very specific questions like, if this is a non-custom integration, do you have an understanding of how it'll function? If the connector has any customization involved as the third party vendor prepared to flex to support, are it any API credentials necessary to be granted for now or in the future?

23:42And I'm like, I don't know the answer to any of this because nobody has spoken to me about what's even possible with this integration. So it makes me nervous that when we get on the call, we're not going to be able to fully leverage everything. And I think I need to come in with some research prepared so I can kind of speak to what's possible because I feel like otherwise, they're just going to steer me in a very basic direction. So, I'm going to vent a little bit here. And 10 years working at ISMS, this was a constant friction point, both in implementation and in the integration team. The integration teams trained and their mindset is the customer knows what they want and they should come to us already knowing what they want. It is not our place to consult or advise. And you are literally describing why this is a constant pain point and they've never fixed it. So that's my little mini rant. Now to answer your question, yes, the developer side is a good place to start,

24:44but it's overwhelming. There's a lot of information here and you don't even know what to look for initially. And I get that. The things that I would, let's use your cases and exercise here. Everybody here needs to learn these things. Tell us what their questions were and maybe we can work through them. Sure. Do you have people doing that? In the chat, if you like it's the easiest. And they just, we have two different ones pending and they sent the exact same questions for both, even though they're different. So I get the feeling it is always for questions. Yeah, it's a form letter, basically. OK, so this is a non-custom integration. Do you have a clear understanding of how the integration will function? What do you expect the connector to do? First off, what type of connector is it? Sure. So I believe that they're both APIs. One of them is for qualify and I understand on a high level how that's supposed to work. The other one is the UKG. It's their latest version.

25:45And I'm just going and looking, because I put the exact name of what it is in here recently in circle. Let me see. Sorry, I'm just looking for version three. Yeah. So those are the two that we're going to be working on. OK. So the specifics of version three, I'm actually even reaching out to an ISN team member, trying to get some details on version three. I don't really have good ones. The specifics of version three, I can't answer. What I can answer is if it is a version, it's standard. So standard meaning they have a preconfigured set of integrated values that they are able to work within. So the answer to question one for the UKG one is it's a standard integration and is non-custom. And so the question, do you have a clear understanding of how the integration functions is more a question around mapping.

26:46And what I mean by mapping is they want to understand if you have taken a look at both systems and looked to see if the fields on one system can be directly translated into the fields in the other system. So I'm doing a project for a day force mapping with a customer right now. And the majority of the conversation is, well, we call the field type, but in day force, it's called pay class. And so there's a translation that needs to happen. Thank you Angie. She just dropped it. I was looking at that one, Angie. Very Angela, thank you. Yeah. So basically, they're looking to see if the, if you understand what data translates in your system and isems to what data trends in the source system. Do you know what is going to map to what? You might call it type, you might call it type and isems, but it's called pay class in your HCM. So that kind of flow mapping is something

27:47that I always recommend everyone start as an exercise before you start an integration. Look at where your direct correlations are. So let's move on to the next one. If a connector has some amount of customization involved is the third party vendor prepared to flex. So where this question is coming from, is when it comes to standard integrations, very often the vendor is not going to assign you a resource that is capable of doing custom mapping. The vendor is very often going to assign a resource that can simply check boxes, essentially, on the back end. Where is the vendors themselves very often actually need to write code if there are customizations. And that's a different tier or level of resource. So have the conversation with your vendor. If you think there are any customizations that are going to be unique to you. So for instance, there's a different way that you manage background checks in your system than the standard way that background checks are managed.

28:47And you're going to need all custom fields. Well, now you need the vendor to know that they're calling custom endpoints that don't exist in every Isem system. They only exist in yours. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. If there's an SOW sign, so I wish I had a dollar for every time I got a customer who's like, yes, we're integrating with higher right, but they haven't finished negotiating with higher right. And so they want me to start building something when the vendor hasn't even finished negotiating the rate or signed the SOW and you don't have a resource. Where this is coming from is Isem's has a really long queue for integration resources. And they don't really have the time to wait for you to figure out your SOW situation with your customer. So they're requiring that you have your SOW finished and signed before they'll actually start a signing resource. So that's something to be very clear about. Do we need to have a scope of work signed with UKG if we're not requiring anything custom from them? As long as your admin is able to do the work themselves,

29:51no, but you need to give them the answer for number three that it's not required because your admin has the ability to do the work. Very often though, if it's vendor to vendor, like a background vendor or someone else, or an assessment vendor, you should have an SOW just so it's clear what the vendor's expectations of the interaction should be. You are the traffic cop between Isem's and your vendor. And your vendor needs to clearly understand what you need so that they can advocate with Isem's to keep you in mind when they're doing their work. Okay. Okay. Do you have a confirmed vendor contact? Again, if I had a dollar for the number of times, I had an integration start and they didn't even know who to call at their vendor, I'd be rich late. So this is a selfish question on Isem's part to ask, but it's valid because very often the TA person isn't the person that's been negotiating this procurement of this new vendor.

30:53And that conversation has been happening with a procurement person or a leader. And the person who's actually doing the implementation hasn't been given the point of contact at the vendor. It's a breakdown in communication we see over and over and over again. That's why they're asking. Do you have an internal development resource ready available? This question is loaded. This question is only really relevant if you're building any kind of API with a middleware. So if you have a middleware involved, you definitely need to develop a developer resource just to be able to ask questions and do some mapping. If you don't have a middleware that you're working with, the vendor should be enough. But if you run into any issues as far as firewall and that type of thing within your organization, just having an IT contact here should be enough. So I would say yes to this question. If you know who you can run to, if you run into a technical issue in your organization. And then finally, our API credentials necessary to be granted for now for what purpose

31:53and you need to perform IP white listening to successfully connect. If you're definitely building an API integration, yes, you need API credentials. If you are not building, if you think you're going to be building a flat file, you don't need API credentials. But the integration itself, if it's an existing integration, you're modifying, you already have credentials. So all you need to do is make sure that the endpoint that you're sending your information to has those credentials and can call the ISIN system. If it is good. How do we know if we already have, like for us, we do, I think, have a flat file or something in this case. And we're just updating the integration. How do I know what those are and where to find it? If it's flat file, you don't need API credentials. OK, I think we're moving maybe from flat file API. Then you will need them to generate them for you. So and you will need to do something in the end points as you reach your ACM or your UCG to grant them the access

32:57on the API through API calls on the UCG side. They actually should have a ISINs. Your integration specialist, when you start working with them, should have a spec notification of all of the different pieces that you will need to do steps that you will need to do to map it on the vendor side, on the UCG side. And they're pretty easy to follow. I actually just went through them with another customer this week. So overall, if you're building an API integration and you know your flat file, yes, you need API credentials is the answer to this question. Do you need to perform IP white listing to successfully connect? It's always a good idea. If your IT team has not white listed everything that's up on the community site for white listing IP addresses, which changes occasionally and did change sometime mid last year, then you should definitely be reaching out to your IT team to do a white list in order to make sure that there are no stocks between the two systems. Here, you're nodding your head. Yep. All right. Thank you, Jessica, for those questions.

33:59Very helpful. Thank you. Yeah, and thank you, Vivian, so much for talking us through the developer site. If you have a special request for Vivian, let me share my screen here to do. All right, we're here in the platform. Under Now You Know Request, we're doing one or two of these a month. So if there's some special topic that you would like for Vivian to cover, please click that link and fill out that form. Also, our coming events are over here. We are doing a LinkedIn Live. It'll be me and Vivian talking through subject material from her book, Vivian, what are we covering on Monday? We are covering chapter two. So we're going to be covering all of the various moving pieces, like the four piece of the beginnings of looking and setting up a system and understanding all of the different moving parts, process, people, et cetera. Great. That'll be Monday at 12 o'clock, Eastern. And now it's time to spin the wheel of fun. Caitlin, are you ready? We're going to give away a free paperback copy

35:02from 0 to ATS Hero, the External Edmonds Journey. Oh, it's Kathy. Or is it Lauren? So close. It's Kathy. Great. Kathy Novak, congratulations. Please DM or email your mailing address to Vivian and she will send you a copy ASAP. Congratulations. Oh, wow. Thank you. Our pleasure. With that, let's move on over to our general questions. I'll hop back over here. And we go to the Isom's channel. And we click live call questions. And Jessica, I'm going to open up the floor before going to this question. Is this question something that we already talked about? This question is exactly what we were just talking about. And I'm connecting with Jen and Angela via chat on it. Wonderful. So glad to hear it. All right, thank you. So the floor is open. Who else has a question today? No question too big or small.

36:04If you're new to the group, don't feel like we went really deep on integrations today. But we talk about everything here. So you're welcome to bring anything you'd like to the group. Greg Mendez has his hand up. Greg. Hey, it's Greg from NYU. So I was having a bit of a debate with Isom's support. I'm actually going to have a bit more of the debate right after this meeting. So it's the infamous question first in versus last in. So here's the scenario. Trying to do an event notification. And of course, event notifications work. We're going to base it on a status. So a person plays under status x and then something happens, in this case, an email. So I'm pretty, but I know this type of status, I know that people are going to put them under the status

37:04multiple times by accident. There are lots of ways this can happen. We've been asked by our lawyers, hey, we need to make sure that they're only placed under, that if they're put multiple times in the status by accident or for whatever reason, they only receive a notice once. And so my instinct was to put it under first in. So first in that status, then that way, if Greg, if Greg applicant gets put under that status, several more times doesn't matter. Greg applicant won't be bothered with another email notification. Isom's felt differently. They were like, no, no, it's last in. And I just felt like last in is counterintuitive. And I figured, let me bring up to the brain trust here and say, is it first in? Is it last in, is it counterintuitive? And it just works that way?

38:05So it really does depend on the type of action that you're taking. Can you give me a bit more granular information? Where are you acting? So this would happen under the recruiting workflow. So I have a job, a person, we have an applicant status. It's called blah, blah, blah, meets minimum qualifications. So a person, a human being has reviewed a union member, then they're going to put this union member under the status under the job. Once that's, once the person is placed in that status, the event notification will be triggered and it will send out an email from our email template library. The first time is just fine. But let's say that, I don't know, I continue dispositioning this person for the next few weeks and then I forget and I put the person back and I go ahead and I put the applicant again

39:06under the same initial meets minimum qualifications status. It will be triggered the event notification. Amitri, so our lawyers are like, we don't want to bother people. We also want to cap it. So we intentionally want to have it so that, look, if they get picked up by the filter, great, but we want to keep that email from going out more than once. I know I some said there's no counter or feature within an event notification to say, this person was really sent the email. So that's when we started saying, well, we know once the person's placed under that status, when they were placed, and if we did something like first in or not, something first in, then we could be like, that would act like a gate. The engineers are like, no, that's not going to do what you think it's going to do. They're right. It's not going to do what you're going to think it's going to do. It's going to continue to send it. We ran into this a lot with a big client of mine who you get when you go to drive, right, chair. So I won't share their name.

40:08But essentially, they were trying to do something very similar to what you're trying to do and it did not work. And the main reason is that any time you take an action in ICEMS, it is an event. And that is how events are set up. So there is no way to apply a condition to an event triggering action. I can't say it is an event only if it has not been done previously. So for the sake of event notifications, I don't think what you're asking for is going to work. The only thing I could potentially recommend is that you set up entrance criteria on the specific steps triggering your event notification to not allow someone to be moved back into that status. OK. OK. So basically, if we can't stop the node,

41:11so you're saying we can put entrance criteria to stop the person you were put in there. So I guess I would have to put an entrance criteria on the status itself, something like if you've ever been, if any, then in this status, don't allow the person to put them back in. Correct. Ever in any? Ever in any, yeah. And so that it's kind of reflecting on itself. And it's like, well, you have been and I can't put you back in. But just so I have a better idea, I know Isems wants to use last in. And I thought last in was pretty much that it gives us our integrations because we do want to do integrations. We do want the latest time as someone got put in. So what is the purpose in first in that? I'm drawing a blanket how to answer that question. What is the purpose of first in versus last in?

42:13Yeah, like, so if I were doing a report, first in would be, I want to know when someone was first moved to the status for the sake of calculating like time of action essentially. Last in is if you're looking from a projections perspective at how long it has taken from someone to from being in that status to the next status essentially. When were they last in status X and moved to status Y is a last in? So first in this kind of like a creation log in a sense. Yeah, that's how I've always used it. And so and the reason we can't use it in this case for event notifications is that event notifications, either like first in status X, the event notifications is not looking at that kind of like what Alex was saying, looking at as a creation log and is disregarding it

43:18or not treating it like we would want we would expect. So it's good. So if it says first in under status, let's say yesterday, it's not the event notification is not going to recognize that that person was placed under that status yesterday. It's just going to it's because it's looking at it not from the status perspective. It's looking at the fun the perspective of an event. The event has not yet happened. The current event. Okay. Yeah, event notifications are point in time. They take place immediately at first, their first end. That's how they're set up. So there are no conditions that you can apply to event notifications. They're just the second the action happens. The event has happened and that's the trigger. Okay. All right, thank you. Thanks for the question, Greg. Thank you. Who else has a question today? Christine.

44:18Oh, somebody has a question. Yeah. Go ahead. Peter, no, go ahead. So we have the fun conversation with our account rep for this position codes. Right now, we're writing this position using notes. I'm sure you're aware of this for the man and and there. The options they're giving us is to do a multi status will probably been solution. But that would mean create for us to create 40 different statuses because there's not selected during the interview. There's not selected during the offer. And there's a hiring manager hiring managers can select not selected. Recruiters can not selected which equates to 40 different statuses. So we can't do that. And the second option is doing an action where an I form is pops up.

45:24And you put the this position code there for not selected. I haven't seen it done. We're asking them to show us a demo. Maybe we can do it on our staging site. But it just seems clunky to me. The main goal is for reporting. We want to we want to be able to report on why recruiters and hiring managers are not selecting candidates. What is your suggestion on this? Because I don't think high sums as a good way in capturing that data aren't easy with capturing that data. So there's there's a couple of different philosophies around disposition code isimmed specifically. And dispositioning in the individual bin using a status is really the ideal way for reporting. I know you're going to hate this. For reporting purposes, having a status disposition.

46:27And let me take that step back. So if you are going to have the disposition stat, I always would build them where there was a disposition bin and all the disposition statuses were in one place. Because when you're scrolling through all of your available statuses, it's a lot neater to do it that way. But the disposition statuses that are in isems, the way that the native disposition functionality works, you can't hide it from individuals and folks that have the ability to see the individual dispositions in that area of the system. It can't you can't drive the experience using any form of entrance criteria. They just see all of the options and they can pick whatever option and say whatever they want to if you leave the add node on. Whereas with the statuses, one of the reasons the statuses are a preferable way to go is you can configure a per disposition email and send a specific notification out as part of the disposition that way.

47:29You can't do that in the standard disposition. I never thought of it that way. Yeah. And then the other thing is you can't double if you set up entrance criteria properly, you can't quadruple or double disposition somebody. You basically can say if the person from an entrance criteria perspective is in this disposition status, don't disposition them again or move them out of this disposition status. So reporting-wise, it is much easier to report on them. Jessica, you have something to say about this, though, how do you guys do it? Yeah, so we actually did an overhaul of all of our bins and statuses last year for this exact purpose. And I kind of mapped it all out and excels. So I'd be happy to share some information. Yeah. I hope you're listening. But what we did was we didn't want to have like one bin for dispositions because we wanted to be able to visually look at the job and see what stage did they make it to. So as a new submissions, screen interview hired offer.

48:33And then we have kind of all of the same rejection reasons within each of those bins. So we could visually look at it or report to say, this man made it to the screen stage and they were either advanced or rejected. So you can very easily visually see and report on what stage did they make it to and why were they rejected within that stage. And then we tied specific email templates to all of those so that we're giving those more customized reasons when we're rejecting. Sure. And it makes it so much easier than trying to sift through everything. So we really love, have loved the change. But how many statuses do you have per bin? I have to look off the top of my head. I can't tell you I can go look at a job right now. I have the document. I will say like most of the time we are having to expand to two pages of the people tab because it looks a little bit longer. But it's really not bad. I feel like option is an option.

49:34Sorry, Jessica, go ahead. No, sorry, that's it. I was going to say, I form option. I've never seen anybody do. It is an option. I could see why they're recommending that you do that. But reporting on that is going to be a beast. OK. Sorry, one other thing I thought of, the other benefit to the approach that we took is we do high volume recruiting for hourly positions mostly. So we get a lot of duplicate candidates. And what's really great is that you can put that recruiting workflow history icon on the people tab in the search results. And then we actually can click very easily and see the exact status and reason they were rejected or where they made it to when they're applying again, which was really nice. We also can go back if you ever want to re-engage or do bulk outreach based off of the status in the stage that they made it into. We like to that we had that option invisibility. So lots of benefits for us. Like how many disposition options do you have?

50:35For example, you have five. Let's see, you have 10. Do you replicate all those in the different bins that you have? Most of them are replicated. Some are not depending upon what's the answer at. So like for us are different reasons. And here I'm just pulling one up because I don't have the exact list. I'm looking in our platform. OK, so we have here are the different bins that we have. We have not considered, which if you're, are you a contractor with OFCCP, a government contractor or no? No. OK, well then the life's going to be a lot simpler for you. But we set ours up with that in mind and then our situation changed. So we don't have to be as stringent now because we no longer have some of the same contracts. But regardless, we have a bin for not considered, which is more like position put on hold. They were never reviewed or a late applicant. They were eligible for rehire. There was a work authorization or a visa issue requirement. So we have the not considered bin, which basically means we don't, you don't have to count them in AP reporting

51:37as a very simplified way of saying that. Then there's initial HR review, initial hiring manager review because for reporting reasons, you kind of want to know who it was reviewing your program. We have the screen bin, the interview bin. And so in the screen bin or an initial review, we have things like they lacked the minimum qualifications or they were not the best qualified and then we have different reasons. So we either have experience, education, skills or other or they were not selected for job fit or career goals were misaligned or interview responses, different reasons. And then at the interview stage, I think it's a certain stage we didn't really have that they lacked the minimum qualifications because by the time they made it to that stage, we already knew they had minimum qualifications. It was just often that they were not the best qualified. But again, I do have this all in an Excel document and I'm happy to send some screenshots if anybody is. Yeah, that would, I'll reach out, I'll find you somewhere. Yeah, I'm in circle.

52:38And if not, I'll drop my LinkedIn handle in the chat as well. That'd be awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for the question. Kristina, I was wondering if you had any questions today but brought you to the call. Are you asking me? Oh, I was asking Christine Dornbush. Oh, thank you. This is for a session. Sorry, Kristina. Well, we're still. Two Kristines. I'm just trying to absorb any and all information like a sponge. I have completed a system user certification through ICIMS, but my organization will not give me that level of access. Oh, interesting. So I have to basically know what to ask for from our HRIS system, like system admins who don't work in the talent acquisition team. If that makes sense, I'm on the talent acquisition team. And so if I don't expose myself to what's capable within the system, it's just never going to happen.

53:38And I can't actually poke around in our tool because I don't have the system configuration tab. So I learn by forums like on ICIMS community and webinars like this. I actually probably have a question that's easy to answer, Jessica mentioned it. What is the best way that I can see recruiting workflow history for a specific candidate without having to go into the job? Hmm. Like from their from their person profile, do I have to like ask for that ICON to be added? That's like my biggest pain point right now. So GenTable said ask for the recruiting workflow history icon. There's a little icon, I think it looks like a document. If they add that to the output, you'll be able to click on that and see the recruiting workflow history. Is that what you're asking?

54:40I don't know, because I missed some of those words, don't mean anything to me. Got it, got it. Yeah, this is a tricky tricky situation. Jessica had a great suggestion. She said ask if they'll consider giving you limited admin access, which is possible. And Vivian, we were just talking about this yesterday. It is possible to get Vivian. Can you say a little bit more about what that looks like? So essentially limited admin access gives you the ability to see everything, but the system configuration tab. So you could create your own scheduled reports. You could manage dashboards, because I'm sure nobody on the IT side is rewriting dashboards for you. You could do minor tweaks like this specific tweak that we're asking about is the modification of the output of a report. It's not a system configuration in the sake of adding fields or removing fields. So essentially, it's a limited access with that system configuration only turn off, but everything else turned on. It would give you the ability to create reports. It would give you the ability to create email templates. Stuff that IT is not going to be interested in doing for you

55:42as an end user of the system. So you can make a case to them that this is just normal system use for you to do your daily job and having to ask them to close you down. I have some of that. I can create reports, I cannot schedule them and I cannot manage dashboards. Stick a look at the chat. Everybody is hopefully giving you some suggestions here, and I agree with all of them. And then Kathy, you have something to add. Just, I don't know if this was just covered, but what if you give someone limited admin access and you mentioned that, okay, so system figures removed but they can adjust reports. If we have executive reports and we don't want anyone adjusting those, I guess that would still give that person with limited access, the ability to adjust is because it's a report. If the individual report itself is not given edit delete access, no. So you know how when you create a report,

56:44it has those two check boxes. Can see, can edit, just don't check, can edit. And it would even lock somebody in this group out. Oh good, good to know, okay. Because the limited, when we say like your limited system admin user, it's a user group that you're put in and they're setting the limitations. So like for my group, we have a child group of user admin and I named it limited user and I just cut off access to the things that I don't want them to have access to. And Kathy, in terms of reporting, you can also have them remove the ability to overwrite globally. So that way they can change anybody else's, they can only change their own reports. Gotcha, okay, that helps, thank you. Peter, you dropped a nice screenshot in there. I'm gonna talk through what you shared there. And if you got to go, I just realized we're running up on time, but Peter, real quick, why don't you talk about that? Yeah, that's just a workflow tab. And at the end, we have the,

57:45at the end, we have the recruiting workflow icon. And then when you click on that, it gives you the second screenshot. That's exactly what I wanted. I could only find that little folder icon if I went to the job for something and then looked at the candidate list for you. So that's exactly what I needed. Thank you. In new items, you can do that too, but you can add it, but you're gonna have to make for other people, you're probably gonna have to tell them to look for that and add it. We have new items that I can see it. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much for the question. Kathy, you had another question there. Vivian, can you stay on for another five minutes? Yes, I'm not really as familiar with interview scheduler as the rest of the folks on the call though. So we're still in a minute. Okay, a little bit of you. Have you touched an interview scheduler in a minute? A little bit? A little bit, yeah. Well, if you wanna stay on and talk about interview scheduler with me and Kathy, feel free. Otherwise, we're gonna wrap up for today. If you're interested in full SAI membership, there is a link in the lower left hand corner called Apply for Membership and we'll reach out to you.

58:47Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We're here every Friday at 1.30 PM Eastern. Hope you have a restful and restorative weekend. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you. All right. So Kathy, you have a question about interview schedule. We are still in the implementation stage and the question came up if we could set everyone's availability preference to eight to five. I know we can do this manually. We're hoping if there's a way to set up for everyone across the board, oh, so you wanna bulk update everyone's availability. Right, because we know it's like, it's a one and done. It's the one time availability preference in the that set. And I don't know, it would be so hard if we had to do it manually for every single one. We have like 700 plus hiring managers or to get them on board manually, just would not make sense. So we're hoping if there was, if anybody knew there was a way, an easier way just to do like a bulk setting update. It's a good question, any thoughts? Did you do the Microsoft integration? What do you mean? So did you get, were you able to get your IT team

59:49to agree to let the scheduler look at calendars? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so that's the first hurdle. The second is are they all in the same time zone? Or are they all in the same time zone? No, it's global. So I know time zones were a really big issue in that really days of interview scheduling. I know they worked some of that out, but I'm not entirely sure where that stands currently. But I don't know. Let's go. Kathy, I'm gonna throw your post up into circle. Your question up into circle, because I don't think anybody here is confidently able to answer your question. So hopefully we can ping the greater group. I personally have not touched interviews yet to learn quite some time. So I wouldn't be able to answer this confidently. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate it. We did it for our implementation. We used Google calendars, but it was too long ago when I implemented it. And I know we set it up for eight to five, sorry.

1:00:52Okay, so part of the question, Kathy, was like, if you can redo it after having set it up the initial time, right? Well, no, well, we haven't. There's a lot of people that we don't even have it set up. Yeah, it's an implemented implementation phase. So yeah, if we could set have it set up or turn on eight to five for everyone, then that's what we're trying to do instead of manually, because it would be a lot to do manually. Vivian, if she referenced Peter's site, do you think it would be useful for tech support answering that question? Like say, hey, we know that that was set up and this other company's site, or is that asking for trouble? No, sometimes it's a good thing to actually be able to mention another specific customer that has something set up. In a certain way, if you have that knowledge, it can give the help desk person a trail to go investigate. But if you're not a hundred percent positive with that other customer has specifically done or configurations, you're now asking them to trace down something to give them systems.

1:01:52So it's just doubling their work. So if you're positive, you know exactly what that other customer has done, and you can point to it directly and give them screenshots and examples. Great, but if not, you might be better off just to start fresh. Okay, so we'll post it up in circle and see if anybody chimes in. Okay. Thanks, everybody. Have a great weekend. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. Bye.