Hubert Davis OUT at UNC (w/Greg Barnes)

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Yeah, that Chuck Norris was tracing the Tyrannosaurus Rex,

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You're listening to Stugatsu Company.

Moments before we started recording here.

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A tailor said to me and he said to Mike EA and he said it out loud.

Pete Thammell, welcome to my world.

I had this story 72 hours before you did.

I mean, we're talking about North Carolina and the fact that they got rid of

their head coach, Uber Davis, after taking them to a final four,

winning an ACC championship, beating Coach Kane his final game.

Uber Davis is God and I, of course, when I heard the news,

hopped on a bird because this is important to me.

It's important to Taylor.

If it's important to Taylor, it's important to me.

And so I flew right to Chapel Hill to try to get to the bottom of this

and what happened to Uber Davis and who's going to replace them as the next head coach

of the North Carolina Tar Heels.

But the T and Taylor, it stands for Tamil.

How about that?

I would say this for Taylor.

I will mock him.

I will make fun of him at every turn when giving opportunity.

Right.

He absolutely crushed this one.

He had this.

He had this three days ago.

Pete Thammell was like, oh, breaking per me and somebody else.

I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

Taylor broke this three days ago.

You're just confirming it.

Right.

He did.

Yep.

So I kind of proved it with the Bill Bell check hiring when Bill Bell check

came to Carolina and Adam Schaefter was doing the, this isn't done yet.

And I was like, Schaefter, that ink is, is long dry.

Right.

Things don't happen in Chapel Hill without Taylor finding out.

I put it on the pole to think, does anything happen in Chapel Hill without

Taylor finding out?

Why am I here?

And you're not.

How come Stu's flight was delayed and we didn't know?

Right.

I mean, Jesus.

I mean, how come your boots aren't on the ground?

Because you don't need boots on the ground.

Everyone's boots are your boots here in Chapel Hill, right?

Correct.

I'm working the phones right now.

I'm trying to figure out.

Is it going to be Billy Donovan, T.J. Ozzelberger at Iowa State?

Yes.

Maybe at Michigan?

Yes.

You didn't really report it that you, you speculated that you were Davis was going to be fired.

You need to report it next time.

If you're that confident, you need to scoop Thammell 72 hours in advance.

That's it.

You make it in our business.

Just take a shot of flyer.

It's OK.

So I knew, I knew for certain Carolina was moving on from Hubert Davis.

I just didn't know what the language was going to be because Carolina and Carolina's administration

wanted Hubert Davis to resign.

Right.

Hubert Davis.

There was some push back there.

He didn't want to resign.

He still thinks he should be the head coach at North Carolina.

He was fucking you.

Yeah.

But there's also some reports that when Hubert Davis took the job, right?

He didn't necessarily want to take the job, but Roy Williams kind of pushed the job on him.

Right.

It's like, OK, Hubert Davis, you didn't really want to take this.

This is not what I want to do today.

I don't want to bash Hubert Davis.

Wait, I just want to be clear of here because it's important.

Carolina did not want to fire Hubert Davis.

Anyone who knows anything about this program knows it's a family oriented program.

If you're in the, if you're in the Tar Heal family, you're in the Tar Heal family for life.

They usually hire from within that program.

Guys who are familiar with the program, how it works, played their coach there, have some coaching experience.

So they wanted Hubert Davis to be celebrated on his way out.

But Hubert Davis had no interest in being celebrated on his way out because Hubert Davis is not ready to quit coaching.

He wants to continue coaching. He thinks he should be the head coach at North Carolina.

I'm not certain if Hubert Davis will get a job at any other college coaching basketball.

I'm not certain, but Hubert Davis told Carolina, I don't want your fucking celebration.

I want your job.

And Carolina said, no, you're fired.

And that's how it went down.

How do I know boots on the ground?

Yeah.

The takes just flow into you from the streets.

I go, I stand.

What's the main street here, Taylor?

Franklin street.

Yeah, I go out to that street, Franklin street.

I just stand there in the middle with my boots on the ground and all the news comes to me.

That's what I did.

Did you see Bella check this morning?

I did.

Yes.

He came to me on Franklin street.

He put his boots on the ground.

Oh, Jesus.

The bell.

Give him a, give him a boot out of town.

He's the longest 10 year coach in North Carolina.

I love the idea of you across the quad going, Willie.

Willie.

I'm also laughing because Taylor.

Mikey, we've been doing this for a little bit now.

He left into news gathering mode.

The second Hubert Davis was let go by North Carolina.

And we have a beat reporter coming on.

We are going old school right now.

A beat reporter.

That's what sports radio is all about.

You're right.

You're right.

Yeah.

Right.

But you're, listen, you're going to an expert, but you're the expert.

And so what I'm wondering here is you have, you have your own career to think about here.

Okay.

You're the guy who reported this 72 hours before Thamble did.

Okay.

He was late to the party.

Right.

So the only people, the only person that people should be going to is Taylor Vipolis.

That's it.

Like the guy we're having on here, he should be talking to you.

Not the other way around.

That's all I'm saying.

So this is where there's the Stu got to strong in me.

My confidence comes from inside Carolina's confidence.

Oh, good.

And that's why we got Greg Barnes because anything that I'm kind of hearing.

Most likely has come from Greg Barnes and inside Caroline.

So he got it before beat Thamble.

Okay.

But he didn't report it as certain, right?

With certainty.

He just said he was speculating.

Correct.

They, they, inside Carolina all weekend was reporting that a change is coming.

A change is expected.

Right.

Just working on the final language.

Okay.

So you need to next time.

Okay.

When you feel like you have the story, like, but Greg Barnes.

So he has a reputation to uphold.

So just beat Thamble.

They will not report the story until the story is done.

Okay.

So in an effort for you to become the Carolina insider.

Next time you have something from Barnes.

Okay.

And you feel good enough about it because he is.

Listen.

He has to appeal to a certain.

He has.

He has employers.

He has.

Journalistic integrity.

Integrity.

All the things that you don't have because I'm your boss.

And you have no integrity.

And the reason you don't is because I am your boss.

And I'm your mentor.

Okay.

And so what you need to do is not wait.

Look at him smiling.

Mentor.

Mentor stretch.

Yeah.

Well, mentor of sorts.

And so what you need to do.

You got 30 mentors and he doesn't make the list.

No, no, no, no.

Nor is he.

It's unbelievable.

It's everyone who's not associated with this show.

I have no idea.

Who is your mentor?

Is it Barnes?

On my top two mentor.

My top mentor.

I would say Dominic Foxwork.

He's so cool.

Just because he's cool.

What kind of advice is he giving you other than he's cool?

Just jackets.

Style.

That's a mentor right there.

Who's number two?

Maybe Beaumonti.

Oh, really?

I don't think Beaumonti knows that though.

He does.

So, so like do you talk to him ever when he's not on the air with us?

No.

That's it.

So how was he mentoring you?

Of sorts, of sorts.

Of sorts.

Right.

So it's not me.

It's not from afar.

It's not like.

Yeah.

Okay.

So this is all I'm telling you.

Okay.

As someone who is sort of a mentor.

Next time you feel good enough about that news, you need to report it with gusto.

And I will back you up and I will get behind you.

And so is real goodie.

Eras.

And trust me when I tell you Israel getting behind you is far more important than me getting behind you.

Because if Israel says this is valid, this is good.

I believe in Taylor sources that everyone's going to believe you.

Okay.

If I back you up, no one's going to believe you.

The beat reporter who feeds Taylor all his Carolina information.

Greg Barnes.

Next.

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Greg Barnes is a senior reporter at Inside Carolina.

He joins us right now. I'm in Carolina.

I am in Chapel Hill, and I'm telling you you can't take a step

without someone asking you about Uber Davis,

or who the next North Carolina head coach is going to be,

Matt's basketball. Greg is with us. Greg, were you surprised

by Uber Davis being let go by North Carolina?

I really was. There was some belief late in the season

that with the injuries, he was probably going to get another year.

But there's always that stipulation of,

you know, he needs at least show well in the postseason.

And clearly, North Carolina did not,

and that lost the VCU.

And things came apart very quickly behind the scenes for him,

and by Friday afternoon,

a large percentage of the boosters were ready to move forward.

When you say things fell apart behind the scenes,

can you elaborate on that just a little bit?

Yes, so, as everybody knows, in this modern era,

you've got to have sufficient funds to be able to fund a basketball roster.

Right.

And in North Carolina, this current season, 2526,

the roster was valued at about $14 million.

When you look at how North Carolina has the rev share split out,

a football gets $13 million, basketball gets $7.

So I get you halfway to that $14 million.

And with how things have played out,

and there's frustration with Uber,

he's never been really good with boosters.

This is not something he enjoys doing.

Right.

There was significant concern that they could reach $14 million again,

to the extent where they thought it was almost impossible.

And that was a driving factor in this.

In today's college basketball,

you can't not have the winning and not talk to the boosters at the same time.

That just doesn't work in today's college basketball.

You have to win and win big.

If you want to blow off the boosters,

I was not aware that that was something Uber Davis didn't like to do.

And I'm certain win or lose that had to bother people here at North Carolina.

Right.

Yeah, for sure.

And this is something he hasn't enjoyed doing from day one.

And I think kind of a good example.

Everybody knows Mac Brown is a fantastic fundraiser.

He does that as well as about anything.

If you look back at the 2023-24 financial data,

the football program raised $7 million in donations.

Right.

The men's basketball program raised $760,000.

Wow.

Gentiles less.

Wow.

I kind of speak to the differential.

If Caleb Wilson, I almost said Williams,

the quarterback for the Bears,

if he remains healthy, they get to the sweet 16.

Does Uber Davis still have a job?

Bill Belichick would love to have Caleb Williams.

If he was awesome.

Probably so.

And that's kind of how 50-50 this was.

I think if North Carolina had had fared better in the ACC tournament,

and then maybe won a couple games and then see the late tournament,

there would have been enough support to get another year.

Right.

But even saying that,

if Uber Davis would have come back next year,

I mean, clearly he would have been on the hot seat.

Clearly there would have been even more drama around the program.

So I think there was a lot of a lot of belief behind the scenes

that is probably better to go ahead and make a move

because next year it could really be a bad situation

if the team doesn't play well.

Greg, on the topic of Bill Belichick,

you're looking at some of the coaches on Carolina's searching on their hot board.

A lot of them have big buyouts attached to them.

Does the financial commitment the school made to Bill Belichick

kind of handcuff them anyways in the search?

I don't think so.

In fact, one of the key things coming out of that Belichick search

was, yeah, I mean, it's kind of been a disaster thus far.

But it really convinced everybody associated with the program

and around the program that if we want to be a legitimate

national contender in the revenue sports,

we're going to have to open up the pocketbook.

And they know that even when Bill Belichick moves along,

they're going to have to spend similar money for football.

And if they want North Carolina basketball to continue to be

an elite program, that means you can't pay the next head coach

what you were paying to your Davis, which is $3 million.

You're going to have to invest a lot more,

not just in head coaching salary,

but also in support staff salary,

also in in aisle commitments.

And then part of that, of course,

is that buyout package that you're talking about.

Greg, how much did his coaching tenure sort of sully

Hubert Davis' name in North Carolina?

And do you think that that sort of thing

will affect how they look at their next head coach?

No, I think with them getting out when they did,

it probably helps that.

Now we'll say the expectation and the hope starting last Friday

was that they could have this nice ceremony

and as Hubert Davis decides to step down,

they could celebrate him.

And he did not.

He did not want to resign.

It's a North Carolina ultimately had to fire him on Tuesday.

So that changes.

He wasn't playing along, which I find,

which I think is great of you were Davis.

He doesn't have to play along.

Right?

Sure.

He does not.

But I think if this would have gone on another year

and the team was not good next year,

it could have been very problematic for his legacy.

I don't think that's going to be the case now.

So it's interesting because Carolina,

it's a family.

They usually hire from within.

Hubert Davis played at North Carolina.

And Hubert Davis, I understand,

blowing the 18 point lead,

but the body of work five seasons,

125 and 54 made a final four.

You know, big coach K and coach K's final game won

the ACC regular season championship in 2000 to 24.

This seems very uncarolina like the way they went about

doing this.

Yeah, the other aspect of that is North Carolina

was a six seed in the NCAA tournament.

Yeah.

This year.

Yep.

That's the second best seed North Carolina has had since

2019.

Yikes.

Yeah.

If you look back at a 1985's when the tournament expanded

through 2019,

Carolina was a four seed or better 78% of the time.

Right.

So about four out of every five years,

they've been a four seed or better once in the past seven years.

Right.

Okay.

Yeah, the standards very high and he's not,

he's not meeting those standards.

Go ahead.

I think it seems like Dusty May, Tommy Lloyd,

TJ Opselberger on UNC's board of candidates.

How does that work with them still coaching teams in the tournament?

Yes, a good question.

And at this point in time,

when you've got so much agent representation,

there can be back channeling that takes place to see

what kind of interest levels there are and those sorts of things.

Of course, the coaches are not going to be able to have conversations

until they're done with our playing season.

And that's part of the process here.

If you're aiming high,

which North Carolina is,

you have to be willing to wait and that the challenge of that is

the National Championship game is April 6th

and the transfer portal opens on April 7th.

So it is a tight window of the names you've heard.

What's the name that gets or you think would get the fan base most excited?

Is it Billy Donovan?

I don't think it's Billy Donovan.

Brad Stevens name's been out there.

We all know that situation plays out.

I think Tommy Lloyd is the guy given his track record.

I think he's got the personality that would fit at Carolina.

And I think a lot of people like what he does at Arizona right now.

If you're Carolina, this is a different, you know,

it's a different world in terms of college basketball and college football.

Where Rick Patino was beloved now,

but you know, a couple of decades ago that wasn't the case.

Why wouldn't you turn over every stone if you're North Carolina?

Meaning why wouldn't you make a call to a guy like Rick Patino?

Why not?

I don't think there's any reason not to.

I do think one thing that's relevant here is that there are probably certain people

that don't have the right personality.

There are some coaches, as we all know, have a little bit of arrogance,

a little bit of brattyness to them.

For some sites, that's perfectly fine.

For Carolina, that's not going to fly.

You have to be a little bit more personable in those types of things.

What is it about Carolina? Explain that a little bit.

It's the 2020. I got to be honest with you.

It makes me hate North Carolina. Go higher.

Fucking Rick Patino.

I mean, jeez.

You're on the ground.

You can go talk to the people I am.

I have boots on the ground.

You're right.

It's the Southern gentleman charm, right?

I guess that's the best.

You're right.

Like Roy Williams was a perfect fit for that.

Yes.

Exactly.

You're right. And Dean Smith, right?

Look, Carolina hasn't had a coach that will cuss other than a handful of times

and 50 years.

I know. I know.

But college basketball is no longer college basketball.

And Carolina might want to rethink about how their approach

and how they move forward here in 2026.

That's all I've said.

Baby steps.

Baby steps.

You're right.

Greg, you mentioned that Billy Donovan wouldn't be most UNC's fans first choice.

But what if I say if Billy Donovan leaves the bulls for Carolina,

John Shire leaves Duke for the bulls?

Oh, jeez.

That's a two birds one stone kind of.

Yeah.

That's a possibility.

And look, I think it's pretty clear that Billy Donovan wants that at Chicago.

And his name isn't a lot of searches right now behind the scenes.

Certainly, I think he would be interested in Carolina.

It's just a matter of the Carolina would really be interested in him in terms of the packing order.

Shire's success here would do that had the factor in the Carolina doing what they did, right?

It does.

And I think that's a good thing for Carolina because Duke is setting the bar.

And North Carolina does not want to take a back seat.

Is there a former Carolina guy that perhaps were not thinking of that could be Kenny Smith on the radar?

Someone like that.

I don't think so.

They're pretty dead said.

I'm making sure they hire somebody that has a proven track record.

Right.

There's just nobody in the UNC coaching tree right now that has that.

Right.

And some Southern charm.

That's what they need.

Yes.

Greg, how does Bill Self being unsure if he'll return to Kansas?

Effect Carolina search.

I think that is a massive elephant in the room.

Because it's one thing if you're the only blue blood searching for a coach.

But once you add another one like Kansas.

And every all of a sudden everybody's kind of competing for the same positions, which means that the bidding process is elevated.

There's a lot of other dynamics to go into play.

So one of the advantages North Carolina has at this moment is that they have an open, open coaching job.

Right.

Kansas does not.

Yes.

But that's going to change.

I would imagine very soon.

Right.

Well, I mean, these jobs usually they never become available and to have Carolina in Kansas.

A bit Roy Williams want to Kansas so we can wait for the Carolina job.

I mean, this is crazy.

And Dean Smith.

Yeah.

I know what a time in college sports Indiana dominates football.

We appreciate your time, man.

Listen, if I hear anything, I'm going to walk around and would talk to some people.

See if I can get to the bottom of this.

If I do, I will, I will shoot you a text and let you know.

Okay.

Before anyone else does.

You can't cast in Chapel Hill.

I just said.

I've got five tons during this interview.

Thank you, buddy.

Thanks guys.

All right.

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This episode is brought to you by Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab, hosted by Katie Milkman.

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Sometimes all we want is more of the same, like another round of golf played from a channel with 24-7 coverage.

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