Hour 3: Mel Kiper Jr. talks NFL Draft

0:00Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces, TGL playoffs are here. First, Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club, then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers Jupiter links face-off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? Keep up, it's playoffs. Tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6.30pm and 9pm only on ESPN and the ESPN app. This is the TPH Rowan in Rothenburg podcast. Let the Wilder Rump is begin! This in live weekday mornings from 6 to 10am on 880 ESPN in New York, the ESPN New York app, and on YouTube by subscribing to the ESPN New York YouTube channel. Tutorial on surfacing three times as many people as he's able to get to. So Jeremy Paine, you may have one of the thickest necks I've ever seen in my life.

1:01Jeremy Paine University of Maine is where I went to college. That's interesting. There is no separation from his neck to his head like his head. Where was Jeremy Paine that you've uh... I'm on. Look at their roster right now. It's unbelievable. This might be the... I mean... Their outfield is Tatees Rodriguez and Soto. When we go to Mel at 845 today, I will not take any blame. Who's the manager of the Dominican team? I have no idea. Albert Pujols. Oh, okay. I had heard that actually. The machine. This will be Tony Paine. I love Tony. Tony Paine gave me my first ball at a game. Oh my god. I love Tony Paine. What? No. I mean, you understand now we have like nine minutes. Oh, listen. Keep the CMT nice and tight. Okay. It's a good thing they've already did the legal today so we can just move on. I didn't do the legal yet. Oh, sorry. You need to try to... At least you remember me. At least you remember. You know what? Let me do the legal now. Me, me, me. Here we go. You're listening to D.P.H.R. Underothenberg on WHSQWCBSFMHD2, New York.

2:06That was nice. Of course that would be his warm-up too is me, me, me, me. It's always about you. Well, you know what? That's how you warm up. Okay, well, Kippie. We, we, we. It's got to be me, me, me. That's what the pigs do. No. You're a me guy. That's what the pigs do. Me, me, me, me. And me guy. Pigs do that? I guess. So, we talked for a lot of the morning. By the way, if you missed it when the show's over, check out the podcast. About the quarterback options for the jets. Archer, there was a lot of podcast heat with you gone. A lot of angry people. Yeah. I don't want people. Angry. Yep. So, cutaway trash. All of which I've tried to create a realistic option of how they would acquire the jets being that team. The, these quarterbacks. Cutaway trash. The avenue that you would go. What it be? Kalamari is a free agent. Estimated a couple of million dollars a year. What it be? Ty Simpson. Theoretically at number 16. Hmm. But because the more you read, the idea of him falling out of the first round seems.

3:07He's not going to go to second. No. Yeah, it seems smaller by the day. Well, you also heard, I was listening to the afternoon show, the relationship between him and Todd Monkin. Yeah. Who Alan kept saying Monkin. Tom Boykin. You don't. Unbelievable. Yeah, no, it's Monkin. Um. Well, you know who we took, excuse me. Of course, of course. So, or would it be the final option? Would it be Malik Wallace? At? Let's call it $25 million a year. All right. So, what's the exact question, please? What would you do? You would pursue. Well, okay. I would marry Willis. Short-term deal. Cuddle Simpson and Treasury. Wow. So you're, you're, it seems because you're diametrically appalled as I'm just rephrasing. You would much rather pay Malik Willis $25, $26, $26, $27 million a year than you would. Well, I think upside like Malik Wallace is very unknown. Like, I think he, I'm not expecting that he's going to be like a friend.

4:08I mean, Chris Sims loves him. Yeah. So, I think there's a chance that you put him in the right position and he's really good. And maybe, maybe next year you don't need a quarterback. I think there's a better chance of that than Kyle and Murray. Kyle and Murray, I know he's fine. But you're not going to get to the end of next year and be like, I don't need a quarterback. I've got Kyle and Murray. So, that's true. The only thing, and I'm not sure I disagree with you. The only thing I have. And they have a fortune of money, RJ. They do. They have 90, maybe more million. The only thing I would rebut with is it could, I don't know what to do with it. But it could cost you $75, $78, $80 million to get that deal done with Mullik Willis. It's possible. But I also have a fortune of money. And even if I draft the quarterback next year, it's going to be in a rookie contract. Right. I'll say it again. Murray Willis, cuddle Simpson, trashman. Right. You could still take the quarterback in 27. Sure. Depending on how many years you get done with Mullik Willis. I'd like to disagree with Dave. But I will, in order to keep this thing nice and tidy, agree across the board. All right. On we go. Go.

5:08So today's deadline day. For a franchise tag. For a transition tag in the NFL 4 o'clock today. And Breeze Hall is the name worth watching locally. So, cuddle my trash. This is a rephrase now. How you think Darren Moosey will handle the situation. Okay. Would that be the transition tag at $11.3 million meaning that's a number he'll play for for the Jets. Unless he gets an offer for another team of which the Jets would then have to match it. Or they could let him go get some compensation back. No, you don't get any compensation. Or excuse me, yeah, you get no compensation. You get nothing. You just, he just is gone. You lose it. Would it then be the franchise tag where he played for the Jets at $14.3 million? Mm-hmm. Or do you think they'll get a long term deal, Darren? Of which Rich Samini says the sweet spot according to his story. $13 million would be $13 million here. You're up. And I'm a first on this one. Give me the hard one. I actually think if the intention is to sign him once you put the tag on him, it would make more sense to do the transition tag.

6:10Because now you get a better idea of what the market is willing to pay him, which would alleviate some of his concerns. Right, I think it would actually make it easier or could potentially make it a long term deal easier. So I'll go transition tag, Mary. I will cuddle. I'm a right-down lady. Gritty. Now I guess I would cuddle tag and then I would trash long term deal getting done before the deadline. Is there a fear that you put the transition tag on him and somebody makes a crazy offer? Well, but how crazy are you going to make an offer? I don't know. No. So you don't think anybody goes three for 45? Three for 45. But at that point, I mean, if there's a team willing to do that, whoever the team is, I mean, doesn't that make you more comfortable just getting it done? I know the sweet spot's 13, but if he's telling you the entire time, no, it's 15 or whatever it ends up being and you're like, okay, prove it. Yeah. At least this gives you the opportunity to have someone like have improve it.

7:10So this is what Muji is going to do, RJ, right? Yes. And plus you save a couple million if you can't get a deal done. And no one offers him a deal. You have to match. I think I'm going to marry franchise. I'm going to cuddle transition. I'm going to trash. So you're totally, yeah, well, 40, I mean, three million bucks, I guess. If you're at the point is if you really want him, why, why play the game, right? I guess that's the point. Well, but here's the thing though. Here's what I'll say to that though. And I don't know what his mindset is either. Right, but if you've been trying to play the game the entire time, kind of like the whole Lamar Jackson conversation that they were having. Yeah, they have been playing the game. Right. And if you're playing the game and you clearly have a number you want to give him, and he's not happy with the number because he says on the open market, I can get more. It would actually probably make the long term deal a little bit easier if you put the transition tag on him and said, okay, show us that you get more money. And if he does, then you feel more comfortable signing into the deal that he's telling you anyway because you know another team's willing to pay it. Yes, it's an interesting situation because so.

8:11I mean, give credit to their offensive line, which was, I think, right spots, ish on offense and you're going to have both regards hit the market. And your two most talented players have both in the past been vocal about perhaps it's not being the best fit with Jets. So you throw money at the problem. You don't think ABT is back, right? You're asking me. It sounds like he's going to actually have a legitimate market. Yeah. ABT screams go to the Eagles on a one year deal. Oh, no. And be an all pro. No, great. No, because because Beckton did it. I mean, Beckton's party, the equation, but he's not the reason I say this. But Beckton left there and he fell apart again. Yeah, yeah, I saw he could be it. He could be unlike with Beckton though. Like you, you know, you know. You know, ABT is tired. You know, it's not that the guys are not good. It's just that the guys are not healthy. Correct. All right. Roger, how would you answer that question? I would transition tag for the Mary. I would, I, for me, I would, I would actually cuddle the long term deal.

9:16I'd like to get something. Well, I know, but you only have to forecast it. But I didn't think it was what I'd like to do. I thought it was what I expected to happen for Moosey. But correct. So I guess what I expect then, yes, I from entering that way. Then I would go transition franchise long term. Trash. But I don't like how this has been handled. Because you're either going to have to throw probably more money than you want. Because I do think there's a market out there. Running backs are back in Vogue. I, I actually, I was listening to something I forget where. But from a credible source that said if, if the NFL was, was, um, just making all players available. Like, Bijan Robinson would go for numerous ones. Or it wrecked currently right now. The view point of, of the, of the running back around the league has definitely come back around. Like, the CLC ox are going to walk away from the Super Bowl MVP with kind of walkers. And they want no part of them because they just think that the market's going to be way beyond what they, what they think.

10:18There's going to be really, really good running backs available on the, on the free agency. Yes. All right. So succinctly, which New York coach or manager, and this was spurred from a nice ESPN.com article about the match in the pressure on. Damning Carl's Mendoza is under the most pressure. These are for different reasons. And the, the goal posts are different for all of them. Most pressure to win right now. Would that be Carl's Mendoza with the match? Would it be Mike Brown with the next? Or would it be Aaron Glenn with the Jets? And obviously the term win is different for all of them. Hmm. Is back to me, huh? Yeah. And no one expects the Jets to win. So I'm marrying the most pressure to win. Yes. Wow. This is, this is a good question. I have my answer. Ooh. I mean, all have pressure. I think I'm going to, wow, this is a really tough question.

11:22I, I think you're going to disagree with my answer. I think I'm marrying Aaron Glenn. I mean, if the Jets don't win some games, he's not going to have a job. Yeah, but you're also, I mean, you're also trying to get the head of Woody Johnson, though. Yeah, but if they go four and 13, he's gone. And he has been, and he'll never, he'll never coach again as a head coach in his league. Right, but his bar for winning is a lot different than what Mendoza in. Of course. Mike Brown's bar is, but I'm meeting, meeting winning of like just, just the bare minimum to keep employed. I think the most pressure is on Aaron Glenn. Right, but if they go out and spend a boat loan of money on defense, I mean, they could win six games. Is that enough winning? Might be. Right. So, I mean, Woody Johnson's a wildcard. I think that Aaron Glenn needs to win a lot of cards. And I also think, I think there's a clear, I think there's a clear marry here. Oh, so you're going to, you're going to marry Mike Brown. No. You're going to marry Mendoza. Yeah.

12:22See, I think if the, I think if the, if the, uh, the next flame out in the postseason, Mike Brown is probably going to be going. They, they fired Carlos Mendoza's entire staff. You think Mike Brown. I mean, maybe a first-round loss. You think they lose round two? Mike Brown's out. No. I think he could be. I think he very well could be. Yeah, with Mendoza, like Rick said, they brought it like right to the water line. I think it's a good question because I think all of these guys have tremendous pressure to meet that bare minimum. Steve Cohen is not going to deal with it. He's not going to accept another year of not winning. No, he's going to, he's going to demand success. He's going to demand winning. And I think, and I think Woody Johnson in his own way is going to not settle for a three or four win season again. Okay. You marry who you want to marry. All right. I'm, I'm marrying Glenn. I'm, I'm cuddling, uh, Brandon. I'm trashing Mendoza. That's a terrible trash. I'm going to marry Mendoza. I'll cuddle Glenn. I'll trash Brown. I like the disagreement. I like it. All right. RJ, you be the, um, the, the siding vote here. How would you answer it? I would, I mean, you never ask Ray.

13:22Well, because Ray, I think Ray's doing the sound stuff. I'll ask Ray too. Next. I would marry Mendoza. I would cuddle. I would cuddle Glenn and trash Mike Brown. Yes. I don't see the same as Ray. Yeah, I don't see there. I don't really see a world because because this is a different conversation. I, we were talking off to yesterday about this, the fastball of this next team is, is 99. And I don't see them flaming out in the first round. But that's how I did. So, so Nick's losing five games to Cleveland. Mike Brown is back. I think so. I think that, I think that Dolan was part of this decision too to move off from tips. Well, I also, I also the confidence he was. I don't know if he wants to be a one and done with the coach he helped just hire. Yeah. And they, with the way they shopped the job last, last summer. Do we know that like, I also don't see that happening. Yeah. Like, I really don't see that happening. Do we know that they'd be able to just pluck a coach from anywhere? But those are his group was like inches away from being fired.

14:27I mean, if you're going by who was closest and using that as your benchmark. Yeah. I'm with you. I think when those is the Mary, Glenn's the cuddle. And I know, like I said, I don't, I don't think Brown's in any danger at all. I already before we get to Mel. So, Rick, this for you. So Dave, the last. Oh, God. Here we go. Well, we got to hear me out here. The last year or so. Dave has had a ruffling of the feathers around these parts for perhaps sharing too much from his email inbox, of which none of us have any access. So, it's time to assess the situation. Not quite an intervention, but an assessment. Close. So, cut him out trash. How Dave should continue with his email. Okay. Should he continue to be as open as he has been? Just caused a lot of problems. Spend a lot of time now putting out fires. Maybe, scale it back. But leave the lines of communication open. Or is it time to maybe, just maybe, give it a little bit of a rest. Cool.

15:29Interesting. Because I think there's a way that you think I'll answer this question, but I think I might surprise you. I'm trashing. Give it a rest. Right in the garbage. He wants something. I want something. Now, let's see if he wants to continue the way we are. Or if he wants to change up a little bit. Okay. Here's the thing though. I actually wish that there was another answer which said ramp it up. Oh. Because I would marry ramp it up. Oh, he wants all the smoke. I want all the smoke. I want to put on all the fires. I love it. The workplace is meant to be uncomfortable. That's it. I will marry. Keep it how it is. And I will cuddle. Just tone it down a little bit. But I would really marry to be uncomfortable. Ramp it up. Wow. I love that answer. I didn't see that. Yeah. I kissed you right on the forehead for that. Me and you, baby. Oh, that's, you know what? Good for you. And this is why you're my rider die. You know what else is that rider die? You know. That's Mel Kiper. Mel Kiper. Mel Kiper, who is the fancy of everyone's eye, joins us here on ESPN New York.

16:31Good morning, Mel. How are you? I am good, guys. How you been? We miss you. Every day we don't speak to you is just, it's an eternity, Mel. We love you. I don't know why. I appreciate that. Mel, you know what I do? I appreciate so much entertainment and knowledge to the show. Mel, you know what I do when I miss you? This is what I do. It's how much I love you. I actually keep a fat free whipped cream in the refrigerator. And if there's a time, like I was watching the combine the other day, and I was like, you know who I miss? Mel. I walk over to that refrigerator. I squirt that whipped cream right in my mouth. And guess what? It goes on anything. I got a crumb cake in there. I had that last night with a whole fat, pumpkin pie, brownies. It goes with anything. I mean, you can put that on any top of anything or just use it alone. It's a standalone, if you want it that way as well. You've eaten bowls of whipped cream in the past, though? Oh, God, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All right, Mel. So last week you had the jets taken the safety, and you had the giant's taken the offensive lineman. We have the combine happens. Styles goes crazy. All these things happen.

17:31Would you adjust that now? Would you stand with the jets still take the safety and the giant's take the offensive lineman? Well, the jets are the interesting one. Because obviously the giant's and trademys are automatic. They're taking the pass rusher. Well, which one you're taking? Some people have them taken Bailey. Some people have them taken Reese. So you still don't know which one and both aren't perfect. And that's where you get into Caleb Down. He is a guy who will impact your defense immediately. And bring all the things I said last week to your football team, not just your defense. So if you want that kind of guy, if you just want to replace a player you traded, then you take either Bailey or Reese. But Bailey had in one year at Texas Tech. As many sacks as he had in three years at Stanford. As I told you guys, he was a decent, a good player at Stanford. He was a great player this year at Texas Tech. When he had Lee Hunter, a defense attacker, Romela Hyde coming off the other side. Jacob Rodriguez is an off-ball linebacker. So he had some great players around him. So you can argue that. If you don't want to, you know, nitpick here. If you go to Reese, Reese had, then the final six games didn't have a sack.

18:31He didn't have a force fund when it's career. Is he going to become Micaparsans? Micaparsans had, you know, a ton of force fumbles. And he had, you know, they did more. And he didn't force it in play that 2020 season because of COVID. So if you think he can become Micaparsans, maybe you take Reese, right? If you think that, you would take him. But it's a projection. Bailey is kind of a one year wonder. That's why I think Downs for me. But I understand what people are saying. They're not going to take Downs or take one of those two. Well, which one? To this day, some people in the field of projecting and doing mock dress have Reese. And probably half of them have Bailey. So, yeah, that's the question that they're going to have to answer is, okay, or decision they're going to have to make. Which one of these two? And you think about Aaron Galani wants to win this year, right? You want to turn this thing around a little bit and get some victories. He can't have, well, repeated what he had this past year or he won't have his job. So all of a sudden there, do you take the guy who had the big gear rush in the past or which was Bailey or do you take Reese, who, as I said, you're hoping off the edge can develop into what Micaparsans has become? Mel, how concerned do you about Caleb Downs' knee, though?

19:32You know, you're concerned about everybody who has any object of injury. You're probably about, everybody plays a game of football you worry about. You got come into camp healthy and get hurt in July. It happens all the time. July and August preseason games. So, you know, he's played, he played three great years in college and he's been impactful every year. And he's a dynamic presence in that, the one that football team. So for me, he's going to go into top. There's no way he gets past. I can't see him get past the Giants. Some people he could get down inside ground 10 to Cincinnati. He's going to go high. So the Spencer Fano had the arm length issue. You have to bet the Giants what they take Spencer Fano. The arm length issue is there. It's real. That's arm length issue is with Ruben Baines. Some people still think he could get on the top five. Ruben Baines got, is going to have to be an outlier, who ends up playing well in the NFL despite the shortest arms we've seen for a defensive end edge rusher. Same thing. We're Fano attackers. He's going to have to be a guard or a center. Are you going to take a guard center at that spot as opposed to the right tackling? Maybe you go French CC Malinoa from Miami. So I think the arm length opened up some questions

20:34about some players. And obviously you mentioned injuries. There's other factors as well. So it's wide open right now after the first pick-out. I mean, then nobody knows who the jets are taking. And after that, the guy that's hot right now, the red hot player. It's going to be a difficult projection in terms of a mock draft. It's sunny styles from Ohio State. He had a awesome workout. He had a great year. He improved dramatically in terms of cutting down on the mistackles after being a former safety. I'm moving the off-ball line back or two years ago. He is a guy that I had going seven to Washington. Something he could go as high as five. sunny styles that he was 12 in my first mocked at Dallas. So he's the kind of guy you have to date. Off-ball? Value there? I said, hey, Rokwan Smith, look what happened there. Look what happened to a lot of the other guys and what they've been able to do in the NFL playing that off-ball spot. Fred Warner is the cop. But you love that, like that Fred Warner. To me, I think sunny styles is the one it's going to be. I think the toughest guy to figure out just how high can you push him up when he had an unbelievable work.

21:34I mean, off-the-charts workout that you have not seen before. So sunny styles is kind of the talk of the town right now. I would love the Giants to take styles at five. If downs is there and styles is there. And the Giants were to take styles over downs. Do you stand by that you think that's a mistake or is he done enough now that you've seen that you couldn't make sense of styles at five? Oh, you can make sense of styles at five when you do what he did. I mean, athletically size-wise, athletically, speed-wise, everything, great kid. Obviously, he's got some versatility because he can spy the quarterback. He can cover, like I say, a former safety. He can chase down ballcar. He can chase down. He can chase down quick and do anything. From just the standpoint of range and being able to play in today's NFL the way it is. So styles is a tough one to pass up because of that. And then downs is tough to pass up because you know you're getting an incredible mind. You're getting a guy who's going to be versatile. You're getting kind of a smaller version of Kyle Hamilton is what you're getting. That you can move around.

22:34He can impact the game in a lot of ways. So to me, that's going to be the tough call. The Giants want to be in play for downs. If John Hardball sees a little hill. Kyle Hamilton and Caleb Downs, which you think he would, that's going to be interesting there. And of course, the lowest point would be the bangles at 10 for Caleb Downs. So, you know, like I said, this is why it's interesting because we don't have any outside of the first pick. We're going to do field eight tonight. Next week we're going to do a rapid fire mock where we pick, you know, keep going right through. 32 picks and not a lot of time. We're going to go rapid fire. Whoever, you know, I have the first pick obviously and take him and those will see what field does at two. And then I have to make a decision at three and we rotate one down. Not trying to match teams with doing what we think they would we should do. We'll do kind of a combination of both. So that's going to be one of the more enjoyable mocks will ever do, which will be next week when we do that rapid fire mock draft. Mel, what you just said actually, it kind of frustrates me a little bit, but also maybe give some insight as to why it feels like the NFL draft can be such a crapshoot a lot of the time.

23:39You just mentioned sunny styles and you gave a comp of Fred Warner, right? Like I'm so I'm sitting here with the second overall pick. And if you told me right now with the second overall pick, I would get Fred Warner. I don't care what but like I don't care what the positional value is. I'm taking like Fred Warner is a difference maker. Do you think that these teams get to know to wrapped up sometimes with positional value as opposed to just taking regardless of position that who they know is going to be the best football player? It's hard. It's evaluating and ranking. This is a very tough business. You got to get very lucky. You got to be very fortunate as a general manager, as a personnel director, or whoever it is making the final call. It was a head coach whoever it is because it's very, very tough. I mean you go through, you just agonize over. I do it. I'm not even in the league. I'm doing this for the fans and just to have fun with and I agonize over. I know your field does and I know George and Matt and everybody does. They agonize over this stuff. They didn't look what the teams have to do. This is their livelihood. Everything rests on these decisions. They're future rests on these decisions. So when you get a guy, I know when they see these guys come to camp and they see how the teams, the veterans react to these rookies, they know pretty quick who they hit on them, who they didn't.

24:47They wrote pretty quick. So they just say, I think we got the right guy. Thank God we got the right guy. And that's what you have to do because you don't know. He's playing great at Miami with the short arms. What are you going to do? If you take him and he doesn't pan out. You know what I mean? How'd you take a guy with 30 plus and not even 31 arms? You knew he was in hell. So you get such a fauna. How'd you take a tackle with the short? If you already knew that, how'd you do it? You're trying to find an outlier. And Bill Polly and I always scream when I was up with Bill all those years at the ESPN, you don't draft outliers. You just don't. You got to have parameters. You got to be disciplined in your approach. Stick to your parameters. If you know a wide nine, you've got to run a 4-6-5 or better. If he runs 4-6-8, you can't take him. You've got to have parameters. You've got to be disciplined and stick with in those. And that's why I say, you talk about Caleb Downs. You say, OK, if I knew Caleb Downs was going to be kind of a version of Kyle Hamilton. Kyle Hamilton is right now one of the best defensive players in the league. Certainly with the Ravens, he is one of the best in the league.

25:48One of the most impactful. Then Nick Eman-Warrior, the safety came to the Seahawks in the second round. Had a great combine. Still went in the second round after a hell of a year. He was impactful. He could help lead that team to a Super Bowl that day one. So we're saying safety. Yeah, I think of safety. I say, would you like to have Kyle? You mentioned would you like to have Fred Warner, would you like to have Kyle Hamilton type? So I understand he's not Kyle Hamilton from a size and overall talent standpoint. Kyle is a freakish talent, but he didn't run well. Kyle ran 4-5-9. Then 4-5-6 and people were concerned. He had an injury. He had a knee to that final year, right? He goes 14. How did that work out for the Ravens? How did it work out for those teams picking a little earlier? There's a couple of guys coming to the Giants who took two guys that didn't turn out too well. Could have had Kyle Hamilton. So for me, it's a rough business. It's a tough, tough business in terms of evaluating from one level to the next. College of Pro, it's very, very difficult. Mel Kuiper Jr. with us here at ESPN, New York on DPH run in Rothenburg. We don't know what the Jets are going to do at quarterback. You've heard maybe Simpson at 16, maybe not.

26:49Is there a chance that he's not there for the Jets at 16? Or is that an unrealistic thought right now? No, I think there's a chance he could be gone. These quarterback sometimes rise up higher. Sometimes they fall. There's no perfect world on that. I mean, Miami's sitting there. What does Miami do? I mean, they go from one Alabama quarterback to another. Who knows? I know Jordan Reed did a boxer F today. You know, he talked about Arizona's and different teams that could be in the mix late to get back in there. To take him. If he drops into the 20s, will somebody that already made a pick jump back in to get Ty Simpson? Is he good enough from a skill set standpoint to be a top 16 pick? You have to decide that. He measured 6-1 and changed. Not 6-2. You know, Mac Jones was 6-2 when I had 217. He was 6-1 and changed in 2-12. So he's not as big as Mac Jones was. Mac Jones went 15. Is his arm strength stronger now? They have about similar arm strength. Is he a better athlete? Will faster than Mac probably? Okay. So are you thinking faster and more athletic Mac Jones?

27:49But he doesn't have the size that Mac did. So, you know, when Mac had 17 starts, he had 15. So very similar in terms of starts. Everybody's worried about the 15 starts. Mac Jones only had 17. Well, Mac Jones. Why are you compiling? Why are we excited about Mac Jones? Mac Jones had a really good rookie year in New England with Josh McDaniel. He left. He struggled. He's out in San Francisco. Played well, right? In place of party. Now everybody thinks, I'll bring him in to be our starter. Oh, Sam, we can't trade him. We're not trading him before. Now we need him. He's too valuable. So this is the way the league is, guys. One year, you think the guy can't play it. Next year, you think he can play. And now the comps, everybody gets excited about comps. They hear Mac Jones. The Thai Simpson. Why would you want Thai Simpson to first? If he's going to be Mac Jones. So again, everybody's all over the place. I think Thai Simpson's there at 16. From what I'm hearing, people say, nah, the Jets won't take him. I haven't gone to Pittsburgh at 21. And like I say, some have him to Ram's late in the first. And some have him in a trade going to other teams. Maybe like even an Arizona Cardinal football team. And Mel Kuiper joins us here in the show. Mel, who hurt themselves this week? Because I mean, we're here at some of the Mekai lemon.

28:49Heard his interviews were awful. Some of the stuff you saw in front of a microphone was a little bit alarming. Outside of him or him and just in general, like, who hurt themselves this week? Well, I think the arm length of some guys, which I thought hurting yourself. That's our interviews. Guess what? The interview with one team. The interview with another team. Mekai is a hell of a player. Mekai is a baller. So, I don't have any problem with Mekai lemon. I think the arm length of a monster delay into corner back out of Virginia Tech's another one. In terms of 40 times, everybody says carnaltate. That's the one that everybody's harping one today. It was a talk yesterday when I was showing that. Carnaltate. He didn't run great. But then some stopwatch that had him at 447. But officially, he was in the 450s. What does that do to him? Jerry Rice ran 460s. I can give you a host of receivers ran in the 450s. Pook him the cooler ran 457. So, we're all going crazy about carnaltate. Yeah, you would like them to run a great 40. But look at the receivers that have run great 40s over the years. I'm a witch you never heard from. So, to me, it's how fast you play. So, carnaltate's the one that, because they say, well, he's going to drop a little bit.

29:51Well, I said yesterday, well, if he drops the chance of city at nine, or even New Orleans at eight, they're going to be static. They're going to say, thank you guys. Thank you for passing Cleveland in the Giants when carnaltate and the Saints get them, I'd like to say at eight or nine. So, carnaltate would be the one 40 that, I guess, you know, raised some specularity, some speculation, and concerned about, you know, how great can he be in the NFL? I think you should just look at the guys I mentioned. You can say, that shouldn't affect what kind of player he is in the NFL 40 times. That's in the 450s. All right. So, this is the one for me, which is kind of interesting. Because everyone's in love with Jeremiah Love, and he's the best player. Like, overall, player in the draft, he might be in the number one player, like, surest, upside, you know, immediate impact, all that kind of stuff. Two things with the Giants, because the Giants, apparently, they want to get involved in the running back game, whether it's in free agency, or with love in the draft. I don't, I mean, I live this, this life, as far as, say, Juan, I'm not, I don't want the running back five. It would that be a misstep in your mind if the Giants were to take Jeremiah Love

30:51with all the needs they have defensively right now? And really, what the rest of the team? There would be some of the luxury picked at that point. I picked it to say, okay, he's the best player on our board. He can be a wide receiver. He can be a slot receiver in situations. Obviously, a great running back, who's a dynamic home run hitter. In the last couple of years, that's two years, that's 15 runs of 24 more yards. So, yeah, I mean, he's a special entity, but again, you got some backs there. They can get the job done one coming back from an injury. And you can find running backs. In this draft, there's going to be some decent running backs. I mean, this running back group is terrible. Well, after Love and after Giddari and Price, good luck. Well, Mike Washington Jr. out of Arkansas, formally a Buffalo. University of Buffalo in New Mexico state. We didn't do much. He goes to Arkansas. This year, and he lights it up. He had done an unfortunate fumble late against Memphis. There were only in the year outside that. He was outstanding, caught the ball, ran great, tested great. 612-23. Mike Washington Jr. I know Jordan had him in a second round. I thought it'd probably be a third-rounder. Emma Johnson may drop the loop didn't run great. He may be in that third-fourth-fifth round discussion.

31:51So, you can find some running backs. So, for Love at that point, I would be a little surprised. First of all, some people think now, because of the way the dress unfolded, with some of the arm-length issues with some guys, I mentioned Fauna and Bane, that you could see a player like that rise up like Jeremy Love. Rise up to that third-fourth pick in the dress type of range. So, he may not even, based on that, which I heard yesterday, there's a possibility. I don't think it's a strong possibility, but there's a possibility that Jeremy Love could be going by the time the Giants pick. Now, last one for me. So, we mentioned Mendelsoe, he thinks going one. I think everyone thinks he's going one. And then Ty Simpson is clearly the second quarterback in this draft. After what you saw during the Combine, who do you think that third-quarterback ends up being? Four-quarterbacks that are in that mix right now. I think if you talk to Fauna, you'll get a different third-quarterback from just about everybody. It could be Carson back. Carson back through with a lot of inner-twenty-four inner-ceptions over the last two years. Fernando Mendoza threw 12 inner-ceptions over the last two years. Backly, I'd say double that. So, but back to that, a really good year. He got a clean pocket. He made throws.

32:51He's got everything you want from a size standpoint, an arm strength standpoint. So, it could be Carson back. Haylen Green had remarkable athletic numbers, but he's an erratic as a passer. His accuracy is all over the place. His decision-making, the interceptions. So, are you going to gamble on the talent that you can fix and sing and coach him up as a developmental quarterback? He would be a Drew Aller. Drew Aller threw the ball well. We know he can throw the ball well. He's got an NFL arm, but he makes some scratcher head decisions on throws that he should make. And his accuracy is kind of up and down. So, is it Drew Aller? And then Garrett Nussmire. So, well, he was hurt all year. That affected him. He said, he just wasn't right because he had that injury. He was playing through. It was painful, but he gutted it out. Are you going to take a chance on Garrett Nussmire? Who makes some throws that say, why did you make that throw? Why? I didn't just see that. It's the son of a coach. He's got talent. He can spin it. So, any one of those four, any one of those four, you will hear, if you call a team, you would get one of those four. You may get all four of them.

33:51You might call four teams, get all different answers. But those are the four you're really choosing. He'll call Peyton from North Dakota State. It's more of a guy you can use in packages because he's a great athlete. And maybe his running skills lead to him. I say being on the field some, even as a rookie. But the four quarterbacks I mentioned all to me. Our guys are in line to be QB3. Who would I go with right now? It wouldn't be tailing green, because he's erratic as a passer. If you probably said right now, I'd probably roll the dice that he was hurt. He's a smart kid. He's been around football. I might roll the dice on Nusmire, because he had to give him a little bit of a mulligan because he had that injury this year. And that would be that. And maybe back would be right in there as well. Take a shot. He's got some talent. He's got arm-town. He's got size. And he took a lot of, he stuck it in there. And he played well with Miami. He said, what you want about Carson Beck? He had a heck of a hero with the Miami Hurricanes this year overall. But there are those throws. He said, well, why didn't you see that? Why did you do that? But I think it would get down to me. And we'd get down to Bob Beck, Nusmire, Aller, one of those three with Green

34:52just being a guy you got to develop. So yeah, I said the other day. One of those eight or nine, I haven't even mentioned something. Maybe you hit on as a guy that later in the draft, or even mid-draft becomes a decent starting quarter back in the rest of them. Our backups are just fall by the wayside. All right, Mel. It's always fun. It's always informative. We appreciate you. And we'll talk to you again soon. And as we gear up for the 2026 NFL Draft. Speculation continues. Guys, it's always fun. Take care, man. Look forward to it. That, of course, is Mel Kuiper, Jr. Rich Eisen here. You know that feeling of handing off your taxes? And then hearing nothing? Total radio silence. Well, not anymore. Now your taxes are done for you by a TurboTax full service expert who checks for every deduction. And keeps you in the loop with real-time updates on your phone. Just match with your dedicated expert upload your docs and go live your life. Confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. This is how taxes should be. Visit TurboTax.com today to learn more. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app.

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37:57They're everywhere. I know you're here. Catch the show on demand wherever and whenever you want. Woohoo! Over here! Just subscribe to us. Rate us and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Apparently weather is an issue. What a surprise that is. Um, some bleeding, some snow, some slosh, all that kind of stuff. What but later in the week, supposed to get up to a balmy 70 degrees. So we've got that going for us. Alright, so Mel is always a pleasure. We appreciate his time and his efforts and you know, he kind of echoed what I've been saying and that is Jeremiah Love is, it's just, I don't understand, it's not a necessity. If the Giants can get, if they really want to get into this running back game, and they can get Kenneth Walker, Rico Doudal to me, that is the answer that you go with. And then even Mel said, he's like, that's a luxury. The Giants don't need to take a Jeremiah Love. Right? So what are your thoughts on what Mel had to say? Well, they don't need to take Jeremiah Love. But I mean to the point RJ was making earlier in the show, he said he read the article that if,

38:58you know, B. John Robinson became available. Right? Like if every player in the league was available, what would teams trade for B. John Robinson? I'll just talk about multiple first round picks. So if you think that's what Jeremiah Love has the potential to be, do you let the idea of, you know, him being a running back and the positional value make your decision for you? I kind of would. Now, and the reason I kind of would is, I see other great options. Like Caleb Downs to me feels like a great option. Sunny Styles feels like the perfect option. I would prefer, and I don't think love is, I think love is really good. But it's like, I need playmakers on defense and there's two that are going to, I mean, you have to imagine at least one is going to be sitting there. I would prefer to take one of those two guys over someone like Jeremiah Love. Not that I don't like Jeremiah Love. I just would prefer other guys over him. Right, because you feel like that you have a pretty good running back room. I feel like it's competent and I feel like if you don't think it's competent and you want a big physical back or a better running back, then get one in free agency.

39:58Well, that sounds like, I mean, and again, I don't know if they're just playing the game, right? Like if this is part of, you know, lying season where you want people to think that, you know, you're really interested in running backs to the point where you may take Jeremiah Love with five, which could take, you know, one of these other teams that's below, you can't the city and say, hey, you want this guy you got to trade up, and then we're more than happy to take your pick and whatever else you're going to give us, because we need more players, we need more talent. But I just think that, I think that part of the reason why this becomes such a difficult process is because you're taking all these other things into account as well, which is positional value. Like what do I look like if I take a safety with the second overall pick or a running back with the fifth overall pick, and he is a generational talent. Now I look like an idiot because, you know, as far as people are concerned around the league, there's no positional value doing that. I mean, if you're convinced that Jeremiah Love is a, you know, is a much better player than you currently have and is a much better option or will be a much better option than Kenneth Walker, whoever else is available in the market, then, and you expect to win a Super Bowl

40:59in the next five years, I mean, I could justify it. Yeah, I think you're going to justify it. I think you have to have a faith in John Harball that you haven't had in the past. Like if this was Dave Gettelman, I think it's easier to attack you. Well, but that felt so transparent while they did it. It was terrible. Right, you know what I mean? I feel like that was a, a move out of desperation. Like, simple part of Eli was it. I mean, it was so obvious, right? Eli is at the end. He's got very little left. I mean, in actuality, he probably didn't have anything left and you should have moved on from him. They didn't want to. They wanted to try to give him another chance. So you draft the, you know, running back that was, you know, touched by the hand of God. Well, whatever. Listen, I just think this draft for me, I mean, the Jets probably, from what I've read, it sounds like it's between Reese Bailey. Okay, come on. Here's the question. I guess this is the better way to ask the question. Yeah. So when Dave Gettelman said that Sequan Barclay was touched by the hand of God, and now you've watched Sequan, and he had great rookie year. But you've watched Sequan Barclay's career unfold the way that it's unfolded.

42:00And the success that he just had two years ago. Are you, like, how far off was Dave Gettelman? But I, I don't know. Okay, no, no, no. I'm, I'm taking you somewhere. I don't need you to, don't interject your opinion yet. I want you to answer my questions first. As far as the running back is concerned, Sequan Barclay is amazing. Okay. But in the situation he was drafted into and where the team was at talent wise, he never really fully reached his potential. Agreed, disagree. Totally agree. Okay, so then he was close a few times, but he never, I mean, his rookie year was really good. Then he got hurt. Yes, I think he said, he never really reached his potential. All right, so then he gets traded. Then he, then he, signs as a free agent. Then he signs as a free agent in Philly. And you saw what he was saying. So now he reaches his full potential, his, his ceiling in Philly, and they went to Super Bowl. So here's my question. If, if, now I don't know if you feel this way, but if John Harbaw thinks that Jeremiah love is that kind of talent, do you think over the next five years because you'll have four plus the option

43:01that the giants will be in a, will be talent wise in a similar situation to the Eagles were. No. Okay. I don't, I mean, the Eagles were one of the most talented teams from top to bottom. We've seen in the NFL, I think in the last 20 years. Okay. So I mean, if that's, if you, but you keep telling me that they're going to win a Super Bowl in five or less years. So what tells me that they're going to have to be pretty talented to win a Super Bowl? I think you can get talented. I think you can get talented and be competitive to win a Super Bowl. But I don't think it translates to being as talented as what Philly Delphi was. It pains me to say it. That Philly team that won a Super Bowl dominated. They dominated the line of scrimmage. They had great receivers. They had a great running back. There's, I mean, they manhandled everyone in that postseason outside of the Rams. They, they destroyed, we haven't really seen the chiefs ever look like that. They destroyed Kansas City on the biggest stage. Right. In the reality of Jalen Hertz and what we've seen now from Jalen Hertz is that he needs that running game to be what he ends up in.

44:01Yeah. Like that's an important piece of that. I also, I think, I've also seen John Harbaugh in what he's just recently built in Baltimore and like how Derek, you know, how Derek Henry helped to drive that offense. Like how good Derek Henry was. To the point where sometimes it's like, why is Derek Henry not on the field more? Like we need to see him more. So like, I mean, again, it's, it's what you prioritize. Like what I guess I would retort that like you think you think Kenneth Walker is pretty good running back, right? I think Ken, well, I think Kenneth Walker is a good running back. Yeah. Okay. So, isn't it worth signing Walker? And then, and then, well, no, because if I, someone else, well, if, if, if, if, if you told me, I need the running back, I would say get one of the free agent running backs if you need the extra running back. Okay. And I understand what you're saying. You're getting, it's, it's added value, right? Like you get the running back with just money and then you use the traffic to get these whoever it is. I get it. But I, do you think that Kenneth Walker is Jumeer Gibbs? No. Okay. Do you think that Kenneth Walker is B. Jean Robinson? No. Okay.

45:01If I told you that Jeremiah Love was going to be Jumeer Gibbs or B. Jean Robinson, what would you rather? I'd rather Jeremiah Love. Okay. But would you, at, at the cost of Caleb Downs or Sonny Styles? I don't think so. So there's not that much of a gap then in your opinion. Yeah. I, I think that, I, if you, if you told me, I have Kenneth Walker, Skataboo, and Tracy, my running back room is, I think it's great. I think it's, I think it's up there in the top five in the NFL, as far as not, not, not individual running backs, but the full complement of running backs. And now I can get down to the styles, sign me up for that. I'm not going to freak out if they go with love, because I have enough belief and hardball that he's, he's just, he's good, really good, maybe great. But I, just, my preference is to go in the other direction. Yeah, right. But even then, I mean, even then, there'll be a, it gets a safety and it's a linebacker. Right? Thanks. It's not, like, the value wise, right? It's still,

46:01it's not running back, but I just, you can't have enough great football players. What I'm going to hold up with this draft, specifically, is that the blue chip prospects in this draft, position value, does not, it's not equivalent to what they are. Right. That the top two players position wise are a running back and a safety, and you would prefer not to take those guys two, three, four, five, whatever. Right. Let's continue this conversation. You have something you want to tell me before we continue this conversation? I got exciting stuff. Oh, yeah. I don't know if you can be able to contain yourself when I tell you this stuff. It's almost too good to be trying me. Okay, well, it's got a, it's got a fun nickname too. Basketball fans, it's almost time for the Super Trey Day sweepstakes. Fandals, all about those three pointers made. And on March 3rd, that three, that's three three on the calendar. March 3rd, three three. You'll have your own shot at a big win from downtown. Place a three-point wager, and you'll be entered to win a share of over $3.3 million in bonus bets. Download the sportswalk app by

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50:02Looking for more access to the show. Why? Because you know why. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And D.R. on ESPN. I can't help but sing the song every time it's a very catchy tune. I'm having some camera problems at the moment. What have you done? If you just bought yourself a full-time iPad for the situation, it would make a difference. It's the connection. Let me see. Put that back. Why don't we hide your camera crew? A full crew? Now it was a time to do it, because John is distracted. We're all those guys. Those two young fellows that were rubbing, um, the wax all over you. TJ Niko? T.J. Niko was the spider-tech. The wax, that was spider-tech. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I'll rub it Nico. Where are those guys doing now? They're probably at therapy. Nico. I think Nico's like a big I have a hair city. That's Nico Harrison isn't it like TJ's running to some some trouble. Oh, that's because He's got this because he's mentally scarred when you tell him to rub the spider tackle. What does that mean? I don't use it. That's right specifics really work with that spider-tack really become familiar

51:07I think I think Nico was taking his career I believe he looks at that old show. We did as a a springboard into massive success And it's really literally ruining the baseball before our eyes RJ correct me from wrong and be be honest now. Yep. Okay, you've been on a night in a nice run You've had no like no one corners with Dave you haven't been nasty like you really don't let him go to RJ Please Play play the the oh Robert tell me that's not maybe like the creepiest sound, but you've ever heard your really work with that spider-tack Really become familiar No, you heard you heard you heard before even that RJ more use it. That's right Goodness the fact that everything that happens on this planet He he brings to the bedroom says a lot about him without last one that last one's tough more use it. That's right. Oh Jeez, it's cringey and you wonder why TJ's career is taking a turn I have TJ. I have Nico. Do you view yourself as responsible in any way? What do you mean responsible?

52:10You said TJ's gone to some some dark corners of I don't have this confirmed. This is kind of rumors. I've heard is that This is the double-edged sword for you because but on the one hand you can you can launch people to great success as you've done in the past But but on the other hand, you can just send people to a downward spiral I don't know what I sent into a downward spiral. Yeah, we talk about know that we talk about your success stories What about you know the skeletons in the closet people have gone the other way? Listen, it's the risk you have to take so you're either going to be very successful. Oh your life is going off a cliff I don't I don't think that's necessarily true. Go ahead, baby flip that coin. That's the picture you're painting No, but I think the coin lands on heads many more times and tails I think you're a lot more success than failures It might be a 50-50 proposition like look at people with acronym like I would love to see the hit rate Yeah, I love to see emails. Here's an email for you. I'll bleep you R.J You can't get rid of the emails Dave, you are the best for reading all these emails. You're the goat R.J. Sucks

53:14Positive inbox I love it. Give me more inbox that breeds positivity. Yeah, love it Well, there's a lot of positivity Here you know what Eric Davis would you say a lot? When the camera cuts to the control room, I have to say Raymond May actually have better hair than R.J. R.J.'s hair gets all the love but raise hair is incredible I think there's some kind of hair Beautiful stuff that's Eric Davis So that's not very positive. I think that's actually positive. I'll take that right I don't even think it's a question. I'm like I say think I know we have the best control room hair in the country in the world and the world problem. I go as far as full show Ah It's fine. Yeah, but those two are just different level though R.J. doesn't have to put stuff on it. That's the difference. Ray, do you put stuff in here in the morning? Not in the morning. No, no, he doesn't If there's nothing in that. No, no, he's got gorgeous hair. It's think it's lustrous. It's it's beautiful Dave, every day you come in here and you don't wear a hat I actually think the same thought every time there's there's something there

54:18I think it's like there's a everyone on the show is pretty well-loss in the I think we should judge you R.J. want to judge it up a little bit. Yeah. Well, there's there's so much potential Like you're you're you're you're your early 50s and you're still rocking like a nice time Yeah, I mean to be in your early 50s and have a really full head of hair But he's saying that you you should embrace it more you should have more I think I should have more hair. Yeah, we grow it out. No more hair style Right, like I think we should do more with the hair that I have Yeah, but you can only do so much with it so short you're getting here so early now too Like I think there's potential there those extra few minutes. We can really feel so you want to start to style my hair Well, I'm not gonna buy 40. No, but here we run into the problem. I'm not gonna do it We get you a stylist. I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure we can get something I mean you start making sound effects like you made with with T.J. As you work the hair the hair gel in more use it. That's right. Yeah, I'm not ready to get some activity Do R.J. just really work with that spider-tack. Really become familiar. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend using spider-tack You heard the uncomfortable laugh guys, right? Really work with that spider-tack

55:21Really Because I'm I'm curious I Don't I don't like where this is headed. What's the safe word? I thought this was about baseball. Yeah, I thought this is spider-tack Kaby out of here. We good. Yeah It was like more about Nanagini's love life. Oh, come on. You sure? I told you that in confidence In confidence you mentioned it on air. Nothing is mentioned in confidence here unfortunately You're the one who says it's a locker room festivity here I thought that Nanagini's happiness would be like a nice little thing for the show I mean she's a little face head really I didn't think that Nanagini all of a sudden would now be painted as a Attemptress that's working the Good for her. I don't frown on her. I love it. I can't imagine that Nanagini unless she's been playing us all this entire time That she's can be that active trust me when it comes to that people find a way Good for her. I'll frown upon Nanagini. I welcome that

56:25Yes, she's 96 years old though. She's 96. I thought so the boyfriend was 96. They're both 96. Yes. Oh my god. I know us. I'm saying I didn't think it was I didn't think it was gonna happen again still works Well good for her good for everyone involved Thanks for listening to that dp atro win rathan brew podcast. I'm just trying to have the best possible show That's what I'm trying to do. Why does that start? Listen live weekday mornings from 6 to 10 a.m. on New York the ESPN New York app and on YouTube by subscribing to the ESPN New York YouTube channel As you know managing maintenance repair and operations is never easy But for the ones who always rise to the challenge Granger has your back from professional grade products. You can count on too fast dependable delivery They're there to help you keep things running smoothly Plus their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions And because Granger knows safety is always a priority

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