Holy Cow, ‘The Pitt’ Took on ICE!

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1:03fun to miss. Hey everybody welcome back to the bulwark. I am Sunny Bunch. I'm culture editor at the bulwark and I'm really happy to be talking to Adrian Karskyo today of our huddle masses newsletter you know about immigration DHS ice all that stuff because we've got a little bit of a we got a little bit of a mix here we got a little bit of a you know a crossover event because Adrian had a really exciting interview with an actor on one of our favorite shows the pit Adrian who did you talk to and and why were you talking to them? Yeah first of all I'm so excited to do our crossover event of the summer of you know I guess not the maybe the spring. It's really awesome to talk with you also about a show the pit that I love so I'm really glad that we had to talk about this. I spoke to Giselle Mariano who actually plays one of the ice agents so this is the episode that people have been talking about I know we'll get into it of oh the pit is going to have an ice episode and you know we already know the politics of this last year so we know how polarizing that would be and all those things and I see this guy make a post and I don't even follow him yet right it's just the algorithm and and he sort of makes a post that's like hey guys I played the ice agent

2:09don't hate me but but you know he talks a little bit about being on one of his favorite shows and shows photos with the cast and I was just like intensely interested in this because I watch the show I enjoy the show and you know he talks about stuff that we are not familiar with in our personal lives at times and it sort of humanizes doing things that you may not know about and all of a sudden I'm getting hit over the head with immigration which I'm covering all the time and I'm like oh this is a little bit a little bit more serious and it's kind of impacting more than I thought just to see it dramatized in that way anyway I talked to him and he said look I made the post because sometimes people have trouble separating the character from the actor and so I thought that was like fascinating but he said he got so much support from the pit fan base that there are very savvy audience that they understand he's playing a role as I'm rewatching the scene I'm thinking to myself is it just me or are they doing sort of like a good ice agent bad ice agent either there's a tall guy with a mask and he's sort of he looks very physically imposing because of his height the way they shoot him but at the same time you know he's got the mask on

3:11so he looks like all these guys that we've seen in videos it looks very intimidating and then the guy that I'm speaking to Jacelle he's playing an ice agent who's showing his face they're both ice agents of color which we can get into very fascinating and and something that we've seen in real life and so then you have the guy with the mask is sort of more you know a little bit you could tell he's a little bit more serious a little bit of meaner and then Jacelle who we're talking to is not just by showing his face but you can even see in his in his response to the doctors into the scene that he's a little bit nicer and things like that so anyway I thought it was really cool and I was really glad to be able to talk to him for my for my newsletter which is going to get into ice in hospitals and what that has looked like over the last year yeah it's a really it's a really interesting sequence in the show because the show has always a it's it's funny watching the show because there's it does this kind of you know Michael Crichton thing and this of course was like kind of started as an ER spin off and there was there was some drama there so it's not but Crichton was you know the guy who created ER but it does these things where like there's definitely like these little moments for the show stops and we're like we're having a discussion about issues

4:15and then and then it and then it goes on again but this really incorporates the ice in hospital thing into the flow of the episode very well a kind of these agents show up and it changes the dynamic of the entire ER for that for that episode and I mean I don't know if you want to get sunny into it quickly of just like that this was talked about in the industry right like Matt Bell and talked about this that people were like oh the the ice in hospitals episode is coming yeah I think that what I've always thought and the reason I say that it it show it showcases humanity in this show me an immigration coverage I've learned that that like if I'm talking to you about half a million deportation if I'm using these numbers no one knows what that means these numbers are sort of hard to understand when you zoom in and you tell a story of a kid in a detention center in Texas things like that so I've always noticed that you know there's one episode where there's a guy who's morbidly obese and one of the young doctors is sort of judging him for his life choices and then they get into like oh he actually was in a car accident causing so gain

5:18all this weight so like they do this across all of their plot lines but of course when they come in and in the show it's it's a lady who comes in who's distraught not just because she's taken by agents but because she's hurt her arm because they've they've rated a restaurant that she works in and as people were running she sort of got thrown down the stairs and she has a rotator cuff injury and I think Dr. Robbie says he's probably a torn rotator cuff so you know that's how they bring it into the episode and now you know some of the controversy was what are they going to do with this scene how are they going to position it politically where is it just like complete compassion and empathy and we feel bad for this person and I think they tried to do a sort of middle of the road there's multiple issues going on here I think Dr. Robbie sort of says like the best thing we can do is treat her quickly and get her out because this is going to affect the whole ER one thing that just so told me that I found fascinating is he didn't read through the whole script because he didn't want to be affected by the other stuff going on in the episode he sort of wanted to keep a tunnel vision on being an ice agent in this episode and he said he didn't even know that other

6:22people nurses other healthcare practitioners and patients in the ER waiting room we're leaving because of the ice agents right and so funny enough and crazy enough because this is sort of what I'm doing this newsletter and why I think it's really awesome I spoke to this professor Loyola who like does this stuff with medical ethics and hospitals and things and he was telling me that sometimes ice agents are roaming the hospital gonna go get some food gonna come walk around and they're terrifying everybody in the hospital right so so I thought that was like really interesting how like this real life thing is actually being echoed in the episode that you see a guy with a mask people are like terror like what the hell's going on here you know yeah it's interesting there are two there are two kind of separate the business of Hollywood slash culture things first was you know the the question of balance storytelling balance right as you mentioned the showrunner of the pit was on Matt Bellany's podcast the town and it's it's it's a really interesting interview I think everyone should listen to it you know maybe we can link to it

7:27but he one of the things he's talking about is this need for balance and let me just pull it up because because of the second issue here which is that the the Warner Brothers Paramount merger is you know happening right now there's Warner Brothers there's Netflix there's Warner Brothers Paramount there's a lot of talk about you know oh we don't want to cause headaches with the administration we don't want the administration to you know turn the eye of Sora on us we don't want to like you know cause any cause any issues here so this is what the the showrunner this guy Wells said no they being HBO just want to make sure it was balanced the thing we have to be careful about when we're talking about any of these issues when we're talking about vaccines when we're talking about the way in which the healthcare system works is to make certain that we're actually presenting both points of view because we're not really in the business of preaching to the choir on the show there are real issues about immigration there are real issues about immigration enforcement within public health system in which you really need people to come in that's what we were dealing

8:30with and they just wanted to make sure it was balanced they weren't saying don't do this or don't do that end quote and that that's really interesting because honestly you this is one place where you don't need balance this is what like it's not a news show this isn't date line it's not it's not you know the NBC nightly news it's not CBS whatever it's like this is a TV show you can have a point of view here and still I think that is dramatically more satisfying to have that kind of well on the one hand on the other hmm first of all thank you for saying of this administration the eye of sore on I tried to put that in a story one time and I think they thought it was too nerdy and so they're just like this is not making into the story but I was like don't let don't let Sam take your take out your I think it was I think Sam did take out my Lord of the Rings reference um and um you know I think later in that interview he also says we also know during this administration telling certain stories can get you know like again can get that eye towards you can just

9:30bring up maybe headlines they don't want while they're trying to deal with this merger stuff so yeah I think that look for the most part I thought it was a pretty good portrayal I didn't think that they they held back in a super hard way there is that the actor did say they cut down that scene so when I told him was there like a good ice agent bad ice agent thing going on he said yeah like I'm glad you noticed because they we we sort of tried to do a good cop bad cop thing he's like but I didn't know if it was gonna sort of the evident of the scene because they cut it down he's like that episode is jam packed he's like if you watch that episode is jam packed he's like so I don't know if it was length of episode or content that they shut they cut down that scene he did say interestingly that the the woman who plays at the tini tells her story to like one of the doctors or nurses and that the he has the ice agent without the mask over here is that it has like a a reaction to that an emotional reaction so they did cut that out right so you so you so you you start you do think about the content and what could have been in that scene you look I I am a religious pit watcher and I do love that show there's an episode earlier this season where

10:35there's a Haitian family and there's a young son being taken care of a young man being taken care of by his older sister and once you find out sort of what's the drama here what's the tension that their parents were deported to Haiti and then the sisters the doctors do say something one of the people who's working with the family says only to the effect of like well also maybe maybe they are gonna have to deport him it's actually better sometimes for young kids to be back with their parents so I also thought like maybe they're trying to show balance on immigration this season and make you know the ice the ice episode may not have as much of that balance for for obvious reasons but um yeah I mean look you could see it in the episode where people were terrified and and people are leaving I found it interesting that Dr. Robbie was like saying you some of my nurses are leaving and some of you might not want to say who's leaving and who's scared for various reasons like I think the one one of the characters said oh no I'm here legally but I'm still terrified right like because I have this whatever status and I'm not trying to deal with this right so um

11:36it was just fascinating it was fascinating to see this issue that I deal with all the time like blown up in one of my favorite shows yeah no it's uh it was it's a it's a it's a really good episode so when you were uh so you said that um the actor has had pretty good response to it people have been pretty sympathetic and and understanding because a lot of the times in these online fan spaces there's there's not a lot of nuance and depiction and endorsements uh you know he said pretty understanding what I did mention to him was I saw this it's like this this this this thread or something right from threads and um it just seemed like a bot it was like I'm no longer watching this show that I watch all the time you know what I mean and I was like so he made me think about the whole bots of it all and the immigration piece and he said it's what do you say that he said I put this post up and I get mostly nice responses uh like you know the proponder it's right over 90 percent he's like and then I get this one weird comment from a profile that seems fake that says like oh you're you know you're leaning into this and you're it's un-American whatever it is

12:36and he says all the people start defending me in the comments so now that makes that comment rise and now it's one of the most prominent comments is all these people responding he's like and I wish people just weren't responding to this comment you know that is uh that is uh the algorithm in a nutshell right there that is like you so many nice comments and then one bit of antagonism kind of comes up because that's what gets juiced it's that's a that's that's that's that is a whole another podcast right there um we uh wait I want to talk to you a little bit about the pit because I have wanted to talk to folks about the show I know you know we have fans of the show here at the podcast I know Jonathan Cohn has been trying to get know a wily uh to talk to him so if no if you're listening now a guy guy who wants to talk to you and it really does feel like the TV industry is reinventing the procedural from first principles it's like well you know what worked ER that worked for a long time maybe we do that again and you know what gosh darn if it doesn't if it doesn't work uh I say this as somebody who has always been kind of like I don't need CSI I don't need

13:38law and order but like the pit love it I love it yeah uh I was so glad you reminded me to listen to the Matt Bell in the episode because I had I I like to listen to the watch from the ringer and they had mentioned it also that like there was this sort of like drama in the background but the entire beginning of that podcast is like why does this show work what text credits are we getting from California yes we built this super expensive set but we use it all the time they're not going to document Robbie's house and they don't need to show that set right so so I love that it's yeah going back to sort of old TV but I think the the showrunner was also saying that people want this they they want to show that they can watch weekly and then talk to their friends about and I feel like that's an old idea and we talk about um you know monoculture and we talk about the water cooler show but like I have uh my brother in law is like I want to I want some episodes to rack up so I can watch them together I'm like no I love to watch it just like episode because so much happens to the to the to the point there's so much jam pack into these episodes that I actually do enjoy just sort of that once a week like whoa getting hit with honestly I kind of that when they get it at that humanity stuff I feel like it's a lot of

14:42what we've gotten away from with this administration so I do feel like it's a balm for the soul a little bit when I'm watching that show you when it gets tough to watch I'm like it feels good you know yeah I will say the the weekly structure of it is great too because my my wife and I we were late to it we did not watch it on a week to week basis we we like kind of binged it um after after that first sees or like towards the end of that first season we we binged it to kind of catch up and it was a lot that was that was that was overwhelming to watch hour after hour you know on the couch there that's not not fun do not recommend yeah um uh to tense uh but it is it is it is it is so good and it is um it's just it's not quite the same like hope core thing of Ted Lasso right it's not it's not saccharine there aren't there are life lessons but it's not like here's I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a little speech it just feels like a nice real thing of people trying their best that's what I

15:45think that's what people want right now yeah and if we're doing the half cup empty half cup full thing um I love industry on HBO and that shows sort of like like like um you know it's pigs wrestling in the mud of of what our world is now and it's showing us this like terrible version but we're kind of like it's kind of real that these people exist this is what our society is now and so I feel like the pit is also showing us humanity and and some of the dark side but a little bit more hopeful like ultimately like if we kind of if we or if we work together and we can you know we can cross some of our divides and things but yeah I love that show I love that cast so just being able to interview one of the actors and but then getting into this issue that is going around I mean and and and that's one of the things he got into which was he said that just so Mariano said that there are things that we don't consider because we don't live our lives like you know we may not ever be faced with an ice agent or concerns about ice enforcement but all of a sudden this episode makes you consider that and sort of you know uh have that empathy or compassion and I think I've always thought about the show doing that like things that I would never consider or that it

16:48would never affect me you know if it's a woman dealing with pregnancy different things where all of a sudden you're kind of putting those shoes and and that's good for all of us you know yeah I there's there's it's hard to imagine a place where you need more empathy than uh than an ER just dealing with all these random things well Adrian uh your newsletter is huddled masses everybody should make sure uh if you if you haven't signed up for the newsletter if you haven't signed up for bulwark plus go do it like I don't know what you're what you're waiting on um but the uh but the but again the newsletter is huddled masses uh google it and and read this one because it's great it's uh you you gotta you gotta check it out watch the pit everybody loves the pit it's fun show I hope folks read your newsletter and check it out thanks for thanks for talking with me about uh about this uh this episode thanks so much sonny this has been really fun hey it's Cole Swendell after I give everything I've got to land a perfect vocal I usually take five before jumping into the next track and I've learned exactly how to recharge in that time some folks grab coffee I hit a quick good looks then next thing you know the break is just as fun as

17:49land down the track a better break makes for a better take need a break less chumble no purchase necessary btw group void were prohibited by law 21 plus TNC supply sponsored by chamba casino this is mike follow of lexicon valley and i'm bob garfield are you one of those people who sometimes uses words do you communicate or acquire information with you know language hey us too so join us on lexicon valley to chew over the history culture and many mysteries of english plus some ice cracks find us on one of those apps where people listen to podcasts this podcast is sponsored by iqbar I've got good news and bad news here's the bad news most protein bars are packed with sugar and unpronounceable ingredients the good news there's a better option i'm well and i created iqbar plant protein bars to empower doers like you with clean delicious low sugar brain and body fuel iqbars are packed with 12 grams of protein

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