Hell and Gone Murder Line: Larry and Josh Schulman

0:00This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Imagine if your Wi-Fi was a lot smarter and way more reliable. Picture it. Your TV, phone, laptop, even your fancy fridge working together to make life easier. Well, Exfinity makes that dream a reality. Devices so insane you'd think they're telepathic. Wi-Fi that knows when your device needs a boost. The best equipment to stream or games at once with multi-view or stream your favorite podcast on iHeart Radio. That's the magic of Exfinity. It's seamlessly in tune with you. Exfinity. Imagine that. Restrictions apply. Sink into affordable luxury. Anabay is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. With stain resistant slip covers and a cloud-like frame-due bay, everything goes right in the wash. Plus, the modular design lets you change the look of your space any time. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Shop up to 60% off site-wide. With sofa starting at just $699 and a 30-day money-back guarantee, shop now at washablesofas.com.

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2:04terms and conditions apply. Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stock, sponsor, options, crypto, and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtests it against the S&P 500. Then, you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. It's public.com slash podcast, paid for by public investing, brokerage services by open to the public investing ink, member Finra and SIPC. Advisory services by public advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor. Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

3:09School of Humans Helling on murder line actively investigates cold case murders. In an effort to raise public awareness, invite witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. On August 21st, 2017, 70-year-old Larry Schulman was sleeping in his upstairs bedroom at his home on Outer Bridge Lane in the Providence Commons area and a fluent suburb of Charlotte North Carolina. Providence Commons is a quaint area in South Charlotte.

4:10It's located off a highway, Glen McConnell Parkway, and it only has six streets. It's a quiet little neighborhood, but that was about to change. Larry was on his own in the bedroom that night. His wife Andrea was out of town on a trip to New Orleans where she was visiting family. And his 25-year-old son, Josh, also lived at home. But Josh was out for the night with friends. Josh worked behind the bar at an upscale steakhouse, the Capitol Grill. Larry said that he went to bed at around 9 p.m., then at some point later in the evening, Josh came back home and went to bed. Then at around 3 a.m., Larry was woken up in the days. He found someone on top of him brutally beating him with a gun. So I was out of sleep if I could be. And all of a sudden, somebody was hitting me in the forehead, pissed the whipping me, yelling, where's the safe, where the watch is, where's the money, stuff like that.

5:15It's all slow motion for me, and I'm crying, and he puts me on the ground. He puts the gun on my shoulder, my back shoulder, and shoots me. And then I had one of these things you and I fell and I can't get up. I placed a button and yelled at the machine, get the police, get the police up and shot. The machine Larry was referring to was a life alert system, which is a medical alert device, targeted at seniors. It's usually worn around the neck. This device became very famous after advertisements in the early 2000s. Larry's medical device was wired so that if he pressed a button, he was immediately connected to life alert personnel. He could notify the police in the event of an emergency. So that's what he did. He pressed his life alert button, and the gunman took off. But Larry soon realized he wasn't the only victim in the house.

6:15Down the hall, his son Josh had also been shot. I did not hear Josh being shot, but then I went to the phone and called the police myself and they said, no, we know we're on our way, we're almost at your door. So I crawled out of the room and we were on the third floor and I looked to the left and there's Josh in his t-shirt underwear laying on the ground and he takes a deep breath. I never heard his shot and he was shot in the head. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past eight years of making my true crime podcast Helen Gone, I've learned that there's no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families and their communities.

7:16If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone murder line at 678-744-6145, that's 678-744-6145, or you can send us a message on Instagram at Helen GonePod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

8:21This case is still classified as an open investigation, which means that our FOIA request has not been answered yet. So we're still trying to get exact details of what went down that night. Was this a robbery gone wrong or mistaken identity? Or could the killers have been targeting Larry or Josh or both? And if so, why? Josh was in the hallway outside his bedroom when Larry saw him. It's not clear whether he was shot there or whether the paramedics moved him out into the hallway to administer first aid. Larry can't be sure. Still in a days, Larry looked on in horror as he realized he was watching his son, Josh, take his last breath. And then I kind of pulled myself down the stairs and opened the door and they came running in with ambulance and stuff and the stretchers and they're yelling, the guy upstairs is

9:23working, the guy upstairs is working, so they take him and take his boat to the hospital. I grabbed my cell phone, Andrew was in New Orleans and I called her and I told her what happened and then they just took us to the ER. One of the ER doctors came in to see me and he said, your son is a lot worse than you. It's not even clear who got shot first, Larry or Josh. WSOTV did an interview with Larry in 2022 and in that interview, Larry said when he pressed the life alert button, he heard another shot in the hallway, which the news channel said must have been the second shot, the one that killed Josh. One year after the shootings, Larry told WBTV QUOTE, I never saw anybody, he had total control of me, but I heard a shot down the hallway, they shot my son in the head. The bullet came out the other side, went through the floorboard, three floors down and came

10:26out in the kitchen, so they had to have held him down and shot him in the head. So in some of these previous interviews, Larry said he did in fact hear the gun shot that killed Josh, but when we spoke with him, he told us he did not hear the gun shot. Of course, memories even traumatic ones can fade and shift over time. And because the killer immediately started berating him, Larry was more focused on staying alive than paying attention to his surroundings. He wasn't able to get a good look at the gunman, so police had no description of the suspect to go on. But Larry does wonder why, other than a few things that he says the killers grabbed in his room, they didn't steal anything else. Since the person beating him was demanding to know where the watches were and the safe were, it was all very strange. But, Larry says that he believes that it's likely that his life alert and hearing someone say the police were on the way saved his life.

11:29I was on the ground shot and he left the room. Now, you know, they didn't take anything. So when the voice came on, we're sending the police, we're sending the police because that frightened them in some way, I don't know. That was another big question because the showmen's lived in a big house and had lots of nice things inside and yet absolutely nothing of value was stolen according to Larry. This home invasion did not seem to fit the pattern of other home invasions that had taken place in that area. So what happened? Did the home invaders realize they had the wrong spot? Or did they not count on Josh and Larry being home? And then things got out of control. Could Josh have been the target? Larry said that everyone loved Josh. He was gregarious and very popular at his high school, Charlotte Latin School. Josh was a pretty serious athlete.

12:30He played football, basketball, and baseball. After high school, Josh went to the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa. He joined the ZBT fraternity. He seemed to thrive there. He made lots of friends. His obituary described Josh as quote, a caring, loving, generous soul who never met a stranger. He enjoyed the company of many lifelong friends, including furry friends. Josh loved all animals, particularly dogs, and they loved him. In quote, according to his obituary, Josh liked to play fantasy football to hang out with his friends and watch football games with his family. One year after Josh's shooting, Larry talked to a local news station about what he remembers from earlier in the day of the home invasion, which he said he replays constantly for any clue to the horrors that were coming. That what Larry described seemed like a very routine day. On the day of Josh's murder, Larry said that he and Josh talked.

13:32He remembers them having a conversation about sports, which they did a lot because Josh loved sports. And Josh had told him he was going to come home early that night because he said he had an interview the next day. Then, Larry said that he talked to his mother on the phone and went to bed. Larry did say that Josh's job put him into contact with a lot of different people, and that police had been asking Larry questions about Josh's friend group. At the time, Larry said the family didn't have a ring camera or any kind of surveillance. In 2017, ring cameras were definitely around, but I'd say they were still a few years away from having the type of mass saturation they have now, where it's just kind of assumed almost everyone has one. Not again, because this is still an open investigation. We don't have concrete details about this case. We don't know whether police canvassed and asked neighbors if they had cameras that could have seen something that night. Police were also mystified as demotive, because there was no son of forced entry into

14:36the home. Larry said Josh often left the back door unlocked. My son often would go on the patio at night and leave the door unlocked in the back, and I think they just came straight into the back door. There was no sign of breaking in. Though Charlotte does have crime and property crime, South Charlotte is one of the safest areas in the city. It's known for excellent schools and a low crime rate. So this home invasion shocked the neighborhood. Larry, who was being treated for a shot to the scapula in the same hospital where his son had been rushed, remembers the doctor is giving him the heartbreaking news that Josh was not going to survive. And then, just as he was processing that information, that Josh, his only son, was dead, tragedy struck again. Because the next day, Larry was told that his mother, Dorothy Schulman, had died. The day after this happened, my mother, who was in hospital in her apartment, died.

15:40We had a funeral that following Friday, where my mother and my son, it was standing room only. My parents have lived there since 1954, and they were just well-loved and like people in the Jewish community. And my son was an athlete and a good student and also a loved. So for him, I was basketball coaches and different teachers and all his friends. All that was there. One guy gave the eulogy and my mother and my son were the same. They had the ability to make people feel better about themselves. So there was a lot of very grateful people there. Josh opted to be an organ donor. So even though Josh was legally dead and brain dead, he was kept on life support for the next three days so that the doctors could harvest his organs.

16:42Eventually, Josh's organs would be given to six different people, saving lives. A few days after the funerals of his mother and son, grief stricken, Larry said that he and his wife were called to the police station. They were expecting answers or maybe closure. Larry was shocked to discover. Police considered him their number one suspect. Imagine if your wife I was a little hot smarter and way more reliable. Picture it. Your TV, phone, laptop, even your fancy fridge working together to make life easier. Well, Exfinity makes that dream a reality. Police is so insane you'd think they're telepathic. Wi-Fi that knows when your device needs a boost, the best equipment to stream or games at once with multi-view or stream your favorite podcast on iHeartRadio. That's the magic of Exfinity. It's seamlessly in tune with you. Exfinity.

17:42Imagine that. Restrictions apply. Kids, pets, life, your sofa sees it all. But with a washable sofa, stains don't stand a chance. All of our sofa collections come with fully-machine washable covers and cushions, making clean up effortless. Liquid and stain-resistant fabrics provide extra protection against everyday messes. Plus with modular designs, you can rearrange your sofa however you like, perfect for growing families and changing spaces. Starting at just $699, it's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Flag football is exploding and iFlag is leading the way. As the Guinness World Record holder, iFlag hosts premiere flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first-time players to elite competitors, iFlag delivers top-level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it? Join the movement. Find your tournament and learn more at iFlag.org. That's iFlag.org.

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19:47Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com slash podcast, and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash podcast, paid for by public investing, brokerage services by open to the public investing ink, member Finra and SIPC, advisory services by public advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor. Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures. A few days after Larry Shulman's only son, Josh, was fatally shot during a home invasion, Larry said that he and his wife Andrea were called in to the Charlotte Mecklenburg police station. Larry said he expected to hear that police were pursuing a suspect, and was stunned to discover the person of interest that police were focused on was him. The reason police suspected him, Larry said, was because of a family trust that had been set up by his mother.

20:51Larry was Dorothy's only son. Josh was her only grandson. Larry's father had already passed away, so police somehow believed that if Josh died, Larry wouldn't hear at that money instead. And apparently, police believed Larry might have orchestrated Josh's murder in order to collect. Larry said the police's belief there could have been a financial motive, just didn't make any sense, because he said his mother was a wealthy woman and she left her estate to him to Larry. Larry claimed that Josh could only have collected if Larry died. Larry said that law enforcement had their financial facts backwards. He believed that, unfortunately, influenced the direction of the case. So they're asking me questions, and then it was obvious the questions were leading toward them, accusing me of murdering my son. My family was a wealthy family, and there was a trust involved that my mother lived on,

21:55and I was the next beneficiary in the trust. Somehow in their convoluted ways of thinking, they thought like me having Josh killed would give me the trust, which is really the opposite. So then I came out of there, I said, so either arrest me or let me leave. And they said, well, you can leave. Larry worked as a psychotherapist, who specialized in trauma and grief, skills that he needed to get through the brutal reality of what occurred on August 21st. Larry hired a private investigator, who he said was a former FBI profiler. To help him get answers. Police immediately concluded they did not believe this was just a random home invasion gone wrong. They believed the home invaders were targeting someone in the home. That could have been partly because of the time that the crime happened, 3am. This is a very high risk time. It's not like coming in during the day when you believe people could be at work. Coming in at that hour, it's very likely someone will be in the house.

23:00The home invaders had to know that. If they did have a target, another theory that has to be considered is, what if the target wasn't Larry, but Josh? Police have said very little publicly about the investigation, but in 2018, on the one-year anniversary, Detective Antonio Eccles told WBTV quote, it was a breaking and entering quote. But then, he wouldn't specify if any items were taken. Police did say at that time they did not recover the murder weapon. Detective Eccles said quote, we've been interviewing a lot of people, a lot of people that were close to the family, a lot of people that were close to Josh, a lot of people he worked with, hung out with. In quote, that does make it seem like police considered the possibility that the home invaders could have been acquaintances of Josh. But again, there's so much mystery surrounding this case. We don't have a description of the gunman or women. We don't know how many people were in

24:02the house that night. Larry said he believes there were at least two home invaders who came in and attacked and shot him and Josh. But a lot of that was still a blur, so he doesn't know for sure. Larry said the private investigator he hired looked into Josh's friends. Josh was very social, so he had a big social circle and also just had a lot of contact through his job at the Capitol Grill with the public in general. So one theory could be maybe someone knew that Josh lived in a nice house with a lot of expensive things and decided to break in. Or maybe one of Josh's friends knew he had a habit of leaving the back door unlocked. Larry said he does remember one particular friend of Josh's, someone who came into the hospital on the night Josh was killed. There was a friend of my son who came drunk to the hospital that night. He was the last person to see Josh alive. There were really discrepancies between what he said when he said

25:04he left Josh and would be told the police. I don't know what that means, that they mean something. There was some thought that my son was involved in something that people had it out for him and this was a hit of some kind. Now I don't believe that and my detective didn't and I talked to all his friends and stuff like that. He wasn't up to anything. Larry claimed that because the police were so focused on him, he believes they missed many opportunities to find out who was really responsible for his son's death. And because they treated him like a suspect, police were not giving Larry as much information about the developments of the case as they could have. Then there was a rumor, you know, this was a, this was a rumor in town that my gambling death, that the gamblers had this happened. I'm a psychotherapist, I'm not a gambler. This crazy shit. So we started having these TV interviews and we're having this one interview for

26:10mothers of murdered people and this was on the ABC station and they interviewed the other mothers. And while I'm in this room with all the other fathers, their experience with the police was yeah, they're giving us all this information, they're following this, they're following that, they felt phenomenally supported. I have not yet heard from the police on their own in these nine years. Imagine if your Wi-Fi was a lot smarter and way more reliable. Picture it. Your TV, phone, laptop, even your fancy fridge working together to make life easier. Well, Exfinity makes that dream a reality. Devices so insane you think they're telepathic. Wi-Fi that knows when your device needs a boost, the best equipment to stream or games at once with multi-view or stream your favorite podcast on iHeartRadio. That's the magic of Exfinity. It's seamlessly in tune with you.

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28:33Form for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable, and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash podcast. Paid for by public investing, brokerage services by open to the public investing ink, member Finra and SIPC. Advisory services by public advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor. Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only, and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

29:35Now a natural question and one that I asked was, how could police think that Larry shot himself in the back? This was one of their assumptions, since police apparently believed Larry could have been responsible for the murder of his son. Larry believes that police considered the possibility that he hired a hitman. He was talking to us about the Alec Murdoch case. He said that in the Carolinas, stranger things have happened. You know, this was at the same time. Shortly after that guy Murdoch and South Carolina, he killed a family. He had somebody shoot him in the head. I have no history of deviant behavior or criminal behavior. Another possibility that Larry considered was, could the killers have come into the wrong house, especially since they were asking about safes and watches Larry said the family didn't have? Larry said someone had moved into the house next door shortly before the murder of his son,

30:38and that he had been getting their mail and vice versa. Could this whole thing have been a case of the killers mixing up the wrong address and getting the wrong house? I was looking at photos of Larry's house, and like I said at the top, the Providence Commons neighborhood only has six streets. A lot of the houses have a similar vibe, but they're not all identical still. Some of them do look very similar. It is possible that the home invaders had the wrong address. Then again, maybe they just went around trying doors until they found one that was open. But if that's the case, why did they specifically ask for watches and a safe? Was that just random? Or did they think the shulmans had these specific things in the house, and if so, why? Normally, home invaders who target specific homes have information that the people there have something they want. The most common items home invaders target first are cash, expensive jewelry, and gold, followed by electronic devices like cell phones that can be wiped clean,

31:40and prescription drugs. Back in the day, home invaders tended to take things like TVs and computers, but the retail market for those items has plunged, plus they are really hard to carry, so those are not the items of choice anymore. The set of circumstances at this home invasion actually most closely matches very targeted robberies. When the home invaders go into a house where they know the person inside has a lot of cash or high-value items. They want those items, and they are willing to use extreme violence to get what they want. Fast. The home invaders asked Larry, where's the safe? They went in at a time when they knew he would be in bed, vulnerable. They clearly believed they needed him in order to get what they wanted. It's also interesting that the angle of the bullets shows that Larry and Josh were shot while lying down, so the home invaders made a deliberate choice to go into two bedrooms to confront these two

32:41men, rather than just grabbing stuff lying around and leave. That could mean they believed there was something hidden in Larry's bedroom, like a wall safe. People often hide cash or valuables in their room. Most home invasions take place when the home is empty, which is what the people stealing things normally prefer because it's much less risky. These killers chose to go in at 3am. They chose to stay once they knew there were people upstairs, and then they chose to confront them both and to use lethal force. Finally, even though according to Larry he was cooperating, the home invaders fatally shot Josh and shot him, and they got nothing of value in the end. Larry told the news station WBTV that one theory he considered was that a new neighbor, someone who moved in a few weeks before Josh was shot, might have been the actual target. He said quote, by some of the questions the guys were asking me the assailants, I wondered whether they just had the wrong house and that the moving company movers had seen something in that guy's house,

33:46because I didn't have the things they were asking about, but the police have checked that out. The house is very identical, end quote. However, Larry said that the private investigator he hired looked into that possibility, but found nothing that would indicate the house next door had those kind of valuables either. Just shortly before that somebody moved into the home next door, and I thought maybe they were looking for that home, my detective followed up on that and they didn't have a safe. I didn't have a safe, but we did live somewhat of an affluent lifestyle, and you know Josh worked at the bar of Capitol Grill restaurant. He was part of the late night world. He had nice things, you know. So according to what Larry told us, it seemed as though the PI dropped that lead, but police seemed completely focused on Larry as a suspect. He says because he inherited that money. So with the help of the private investigator, he started doing some of his

34:49own investigation. In 2018, a year after the shooting, Larry's family publicly stated there was a reward in effect. In addition to the $5,000 that was pledged by crime stoppers, the Shulman family put in $10,000 of their own for a total of $15,000. Larry told us that Josh was shot with nine millimeter bullets, which can be used in a lot of different kinds of weapons from handguns to submachine guns. So that doesn't seem to narrow it down a ton, unfortunately. Both bullets traveled in a downward path from the third floor where Larry and Josh were sleeping to the first floor. Josh was only shot once in the head, which probably means he was either lying in bed when he was shot or that he was held down. But we don't know what direction the blood spatter was in. If there was blood left behind or even if Josh was shot in bed or in the hallway. By the way, there is also the possibility that this was completely random. People do sometimes

35:52die and botched home invasions, but this one seemed more intentional. In 2023 and 2024, the FBI issued warnings about burglary tourists who targeted wealthy suburban neighborhoods. They were frequently linked to South American theft groups. Data from the FBI reads, quote, these sophisticated, often out-of-state or transnational crews specifically target high-end homes, scouting them for valuables such as cash, jewelry, luxury handbags, and firearms. End quote. But then the FBI goes on to say these gangs normally surveil their targets and tend to pick times when they're not home. They also use things like signal jammers to jam up the Y final arm systems, which didn't seem to happen here because again, Larry said they did not have that type of security back then. The South American gangs have been most active in California, but cases have also been reported in Michigan, Indiana, Texas, and North Carolina. There have also been other home invasions that have made headlines in North Carolina in 2026,

36:57including one recent case where the perpetrators tied up their victims and tortured them, which brings me to another fact about Larry's case. And we talked about this briefly with Matt Stewart's case a couple of weeks ago. Someone came into Larry's shulman's house. They demanded certain items, but the killer didn't give Larry a chance to really respond. They just started beating him. They didn't do what some of these other home invaders have done and tie him up or try to get information out of him. They just attacked. In 2020, Larry told WCNC News, police were being more communicative with his family. Larry said he felt that the reason why the case hadn't been solved was because police were so focused on him as their suspect. He said he was happy that police were taking another look at the case. In 2023, six years after Josh's murder, Andrea and Larry met Gloria Lindsay, the woman who'd gotten Josh's heart. On what would have been Josh's 31st

38:03birthday, Gloria said, quote, I really wanted to meet them and just to let them hear his heartbeat, just to let them know that a part of him is still alive. End quote. Understandably, Larry did not look at the crime scene. His wife Andrea came back from New Orleans to Charlotte to be by his side at the hospital. And Larry said that after that, they never spent another night in their family home again. Eventually, the family relocated to Jacksonville, Florida. And now, when Larry thinks about Josh, he prefers to remember the happy times, rather than obsessing over how his life ended. He was a great kid. He was a great kid. I mean, people loved him. You know, there's the story and the true story. When Josh was in the night back, they were three guys that came to the school. And it was a clicky preppy kind of school. And these guys came and they were kind of sitting by themselves separately.

39:05And he went over to each of these kids and said, come on, sit at my table, sit at my table, be part of things. And he was just a welcoming, welcoming kid. But Larry said he still hopes that someday someone will come forward with a missing piece of information, something that will help him get answers about what really happened to Josh, and why. He has said he is not motivated by revenge or hatred he just wants justice for his son. I want the same thing and I am terrified on behalf of the residents of that community that this could happen again and that the killer or killers are still out there. There is currently still an active $15,000 reward in effect if anyone has any information that could lead to the apprehension of Josh's killer or killers. The number for crime stoppers, if you have any information, is 704-334-1600. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen

40:10Gone Murderline. Helen Gone Murderline is a production of School of Humans and I Heart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me, Catherine Townsend, and produced by Edelies Perez. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance, and James Wheaton for Legal Review. Noah Cameron mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Cele, executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and LC Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone Add Freed by subscribing to the I Heart True Crown Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you are interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, you can follow the show on Instagram, app, hell, and gone pod. If you have a case, you'd like me and my team to look into. You can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murderline at 678-744-6145. That's 678-744-6145. School of Humans Imagine if your Wi-Fi was a little hot smarter and way more reliable.

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