Guy Talk: Ask your Bible questions, continued

0:00Hi, I'm Bill Arnold. Thank you for listening to this podcast. There are many more podcasts available at myfaithradio.com. Your support makes this possible. Thank you. And now the guy that would never refer to himself in the third person, Bill Arnold would never do that. Oh, don't you know it's the Bill Arnold show, it's Bill. And I warm welcome to Bill Arnold show. It is time for Guy Talk, our two, so all the way from Minnesota to Sarasota and all parts in between. I'm looking for your question. And boy, did we have great questions in the first hour. I still have some leftovers, which I will get to in this top of this hour,

1:00but the same three guys you might find this hard to believe that we're here last hour are back. So I've got a professor, a pastor and a Sunday school teacher. I have Dr. Dr. Greg Borgon, our two is here, Greg. Good to be back. Yep. And you actually found some company in your love for winter. Oh, my sisters. Yes, yes. Pastor Tom Parrish. How was your good to be here? And Sunday school teacher Jeff Verdon. Hello, Jeff. Hello, Bill. Somebody asked me this weekend about Guy Talk. What is so special about Sarasota? Why does Bill always mention Sarasota? Well, Sarasota, we got all kinds of little novelties that we use. I said, my answer, I said, I didn't know, but I said, it kind of rhymes with Minnesota. Exactly. That's why he uses it. We just want everyone to know across the country that we are open for your questions. So we're not local at all. We're all over. And there's some very special reasons that I say what

2:01I say, but I'll just leave it at that. So to get things started, I want to ask my first question that says, in the beginning of creation, Genesis, did animals have the ability to talk? If not, didn't Adam and Eve find it odd that a snake was speaking? You know, that's a good question. But that's a good, so that's a reasonable question. I have no idea. There's no other indication of any other animal speaking. And we know that the serpent was Satan attempting Adam and Eve. So it's kind of a special circumstances. So I'm going to go with interested to hear what the other guy say. I'm going to go with no that generally the animals were not speaking. But this was a manifestation of Satan in the garden. And that's why the serpent was speaking. It'd be interesting to take a look at the Hebrew word for serpent and see if it really connotes a snake.

3:03He took the body of something and communicated to them. But I agree with you, Jeff, I don't think there's any indication that any other animal, other than a donkey. Here we go with the donkey talk. I have much later, right? Much later. It's the day when it's donkey is how it is opened and the Lord permits him to speak as well. All right. My next question. Some passages of the Bible have been interpreted to indicate that God knows which of us will choose to believe and be saved. Can you please speak to this idea and its implications? Well, that's a big question. I think one of the main verses that I think I'll start with and focus on is God says that our names for those who believe have been written in the lambs book of life before the foundation of the world. And we've talked about this book a number of times on Guy Talk over the years. And it's a book that in the end, I'll say it this way, Greg, because I know that we have

4:05a little difference of opinion on how this book came to whose names were originally in it and where it is now. But we both agree that in the end, it only includes the name of the righteous that are that are saved. So so God knew that before the foundation of the world. And so that's that's a given. He's omniscient. He knows all things. He knows the end from the beginning. So God being outside of time knows who is going to believe and who's not going to believe. Now, theologically, that knowledge, you can either then say that because of his foreknowledge, God therefore causes some to believe that are written in his book and others not to believe. Or you can believe that his foreknowledge is none. It does not cause these people to believe or not to believe. So I am on the latter side of that theological debate that I believe that God has provided salvation to whosoever and that whosoever believes will be saved.

5:05God being omniscient knew ahead of time who was going to believe and who is not going to believe and wrote their names in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world. Knowing who is going to be saved is far different from predetermining who is going to save. So I agree totally with you, Jeff, that because he's all knowing, he's going to know the outcome, but it doesn't mean that he orchestrated it. Yeah, I agree. He doesn't. The word says that his will is that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Well, also big word. And that means that although he knows what we will do when somebody doesn't believe, his heart is still broken. He wants that person, the kingdom of God. But knowing what they'll do is not causation. He doesn't cause them to not believe. He still gives opportunity and that's where we go preach the gospel to everyone. But people still can choose what they're going to do. And there's some passages that puts the onus on faith back onto the people, onto the person.

6:09Just one, for example, first things to tense as they perish because they refuse to love the truth and thus be saved. So why are people not in the Lamb's book of life? It's not because God predetermined it as the word that Greg just used, but because they never believed. And God knew that was going to happen that way before the foundation of the world. So foreknowledge does not equate to causation. And I think that's where that understanding is the basis for that kind of discussion and argument. Nicely done. All right, my next thing here is praying for the dead in hopes of changing their eternal location is a prevalent belief in many religions, including Islam. I am a former Muslim and we were told to pray for our family members who had passed away. I may be wrong, but I don't know of any other religion in the world that offers eternal security as our Lord Jesus Christ promises to those who have called on him for

7:14salvation. Thank you for rescuing me, Lord. Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. Wow. Wow. And they are so very right. The biblical Christianity is the only system of belief around the world that requires no work on behalf of the person they believe and are saved. Every other religious system in the world requires the person to do something. Biblical Christianity is all about what Jesus has done. He just asked us to believe in him. All right. In a Christian marriage, husband and wife create a covenant with God and unite as one. So then when divorce happens, each have broken the covenant and the unity of man and woman are broken. Are we taking divorce way too lightly and giving up? It seems a covenant with God is very important. Please explain. And if I have incorrect questions, please correct me. No, I don't think I need to correct you in any way. I think it's a very good

8:19question. Legitimate question. The Lord takes that covenant very seriously. I think what we don't understand though is that when we break the covenant, the Lord isn't right there to condemn us. He still wants to save us, even in the midst of that. But in the midst of that, we pay a price. And I've seen this over and over and over with couples. We pay a price for the rest of our lives through divorce that I wouldn't want to see anybody go through. And so the goal is find reconciliation within the covenant. Forgive one another. And this is why my number one rule. When you come to me for counseling, it's very simple. I have one major rule that I don't care what you're arguing about and I don't care what's happened. I don't even care. You know, if you've been on faithful, if you want to restore that covenant, then I tell the couple you must pray together three minutes every day. And I will say to them, the husband gets 90 seconds, but he can't pray about his wife or what she's done. He can only pray about what he has to do and what Jesus is saying to him and the same for the wife. And I would be honest, guys, over the years, I have seen marriages restored.

9:24Time and time again is bad as it can get because the Lord intervenes and brings those two people back together. You know, it's very clear in scripture that the Lord cautions us about making vows. So there's a difference between a covenant and a vow. For instance, God established six covenants. Okay. And only three of them were unconditional covenants. What that means is that we're conditioned on anybody's response. It was his blessing towards us. There's God's covenant with Adam. There's God's covenant with Noah. God's covenant with Abraham, with Moses, with David, and the covenant of Jesus. Yep. So I make a distinction between the covenant and a vow. I'm wondering if brother or sister that raised a question is talking more about the significance of a vow versus a covenant? The only thing I'm going to comment on in addition to that, guys, is in the question, it says,

10:25each have broken God's covenant. And I just, I want to point out that not in every case are both people breaking this marriage covenant. God in the New Testament actually gives a couple of exceptions to this kind of this rule that says what he has brought together, what no man separate, right? And that is if in a case of sexual morality, Jesus says in Matthew 5, that I say to you that everyone who divorces wife accepts on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery. So in other words, there is a there's grace for the partner when you do a divorce because of adultery. It's not that God is prescribing divorce in those cases. Tom, as you mentioned, God wants to reconcile, even in that case, but he allows. Yeah, he hates divorce. And so he does allow it in that case because he knows because Israel committed

11:27spiritual spiritual adultery against him. He knows how painful that is. And so he allows it. There's another example is in first Corinthians, I believe, where God says that if the spouse abandon you or the unbelieving spouse abandons you, let them go. And so in and and then it's debated, is that an exhaustive list of where divorce is acceptable to God or allowed by God? Or is there more grace there or not? I don't want to get into that discussion. But the bottom line is there are cases specifically in scripture where the one spouse, the innocent spouse, if you will, is not specifically breaking God's covenant of marriage as the questions seem to be in the case. So I want to clarify that. It's interesting that most of the divorce proceedings or many of them always cite irreconcilable differences. And that's a catch all for a lot. So I think that

12:29the brothers such as a raise this issue is pointing to the fact that our society and our culture takes it so lightly that people walk into a marriage oftentimes conditionally. And with the full knowledge that well, you know, there may be a time when I'm just going to fall out of love with them and it'll be a season we enjoy and then we'll just move on. That is frivolous. Yes. That is indeed frivolous. So God takes a marriage very seriously. He takes divorce very seriously. But it's not a get out of jail free card. No, and then the Lord isn't looking to punish us when we get a divorce. That's not the goal of his saying. He hates this. He knows the ramifications long term that we don't even begin to know. It affects your kids. It affects your family. It affects you. It affects, you know, I told I told Jan I've done counseling all these years and I hope I go to heaven before she does. But if she goes and I will tell you guys, I would never date again

13:30and I would never marry again for a very simple reason. Everybody comes into relationships with baggage. And most people you get to my age, they've had a lot of baggage in their life and a lot of hurt and a lot of mistakes that they have not dealt with before the Lord. And until that's dealt with, it carries right over to the next relationship. And you don't want to do that. You want to keep it working on that original one. One other point that I always hear this stat that says, identifying Christians, divorce rates are no different than the world's divorce rates. And there is some truth to that that self-identified Christians have very similar divorce rates this the world does. However, however, if you look at active, Bible-believing, practicing Christians who go to church and fellowship with others and so on, I mean, I'm talking people who really take their face seriously, their divorce rates are less than half of the world. So there is a understanding in many serious Christians or mature Christians believe that divorce is a

14:35covenant before God. And we're not going to break that. They're still too high, obviously. Sure. A lot less than. All right, we're going to take a little break and come back to lots more guide talk. Let me know what question you have. The text line is open 877-933-2484. Why don't I have us back in 90 seconds. It is my deepest desire that you take the very first step of faith by placing your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. If you've got questions about what it means to begin a relationship with Jesus, text the word faith to 4122-4. Welcome back to guide talk or guys who talk, I should say. I've got Greg B. Tom P. Jeff V. That's the panel. Believe it or not, same guys that were here last hour. It's a two hour show where we

15:38try to take your questions and answer them to the best of our ability. Okay, I think it was an hour one. The subject came up about the different kinds of celebration of the Lord's supper. And Jeff, you let it off with a really great explanation. And I've got a note here. Please have the panel talk about the passage. And it comes from, I think it's, let me say here, it says, I think, let's see, it's John 6, John 6 where it says, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood, has eternal life. And I will raise him up on the last day. And the question is, can you explain this? And the last part of the note is, I'm a Catholic here. Yeah, do you want me to start here, guys? Go ahead. We'll let you take us in the direction. Go ahead. Yes. So, I mean, obviously, to me, Jesus is not requiring us to eat his flesh. I mean,

16:46that would just be cannibalism is what it would be, right? So obviously, he's saying, whoever takes me in, this is again, symbolic. It's, it's, I use the examples in our, yeah, the previous examples of that he's a gate. He's the bread from heaven, right? He's the true man of from heaven. Well, he wasn't actually manna. He wasn't actually bread. He wasn't actually a gate. So, he's basically saying, I am going to come in. Remember, John 10 or 14, now I can't remember, the high priestly prayer. I pray for them that they may be one just as we are one. And we all be one together, this union that comes together of Christ and us. We Jesus unites with us. He enters into us like we would eat bread coming in. So, I get the Catholic teaching that, that they believe it's a literal flesh and you have to eat it. But, yeah, I just, I don't,

17:46I don't, I think it's symbolic. I guess I don't want to, look, I don't, I think people who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ can differ on the understanding of the Lord's supper. The, the important thing is is that you have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and are saved first and foremost. Now, I think all doctrine is important. So, I want to understand it properly. And so, that's what we should all strive to do from our own understanding of the Word. So, I, you know, I'm not, I don't want to condemn this teaching in any way. I differ, I disagree with it, but, but I get why the, the Catholics believe what they believe. So, let's just look further in the verse. It says, on hearing it, many of his disciples said, this is a hard teaching who can accept it. And then in verse 66, it says, from this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. So, God didn't intend to confuse people. Jesus didn't intend to steer any one in the wrong

18:51direction. So, why were they turning back and no longer following him if this is such hard teaching? If it's symbolic of taking him in, if you take a look at the whole chapter, it's all metaphorical. It's talking as Jeff pointed out about the bread and about mana and the rest of it. So, it's within context. So, you know, it's a matter of how you read the scripture and commenting on just those who turned away, they took it literally and that's not what Jesus meant. Now, since the spirit of God didn't dwell in them, it was hard for them to understand the implications of his statement. And what it really meant in a spiritual sense. So, it's a stark statement. It kind of just blasts right out there, but he explains what he means about it by using the other metaphors throughout the chapter throughout his discourse. Yeah, can we just go up a couple verses? Sorry, time,

19:53I think you're going to jump in, but no one verse 46. No one has seen the Father except for the one who is from God. Only he has seen the Father. Truly, I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. All right, that's huge, right? So, if you're going to be saved, it's not about eating anything, actually, it's about believing. The one who believes has eternal life. And I could show you 40, 50 passages that say the same thing from John 3, 16 to 10, 9, Romans 10, 9 and so on. And then he says this, I am the bread of life. Okay, now, so here's the bread metaphor that started, right? And he says, your ancestors ate mana in the wilderness, yet you died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven. That's Jesus, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. So the fact that he's using the symbolism seems clear to me because he just said, if you believe you'll be saved. By the way, in John 4, just before this, he used very similar,

20:56a very similar metaphor when he said to the woman at the well, hey, if you knew who you were talking to, you would ask me for living water and it would well up to eternal life. So where's the living water? Is that literal? Is that a physical water? And the woman says, give me some of this water. And Jesus basically says, I am, he, if you believe in me, this, this, I will give you this living water and well up to eternal life. So once again, Jesus was not talking about physical water that he had some place, you know, on his body, he was referring to believing in Jesus Christ to have eternal life. I think one of the problems we have is Christians is that, you know, we get so caught between these different metaphors, symbolism, and things that are used, we don't quite understand it. I think that when Jesus, I'm not ready to go to just this symbolic and all this stuff, vividly, because he doesn't say it's symbolic, but he uses it in that context. But what I am saying

21:58is there's something between just symbolic and there where you go to the other and where it's literal flesh and blood, like in the communion, but there's something spiritual in between that I don't think we understand. And oftentimes it's a struggle when we read this because I mean, how often have we taught that the word of God is inherent and fallible? Well, for the average Christian, that means what it's saying is true. When we come back and say, well, this is symbolic, which I don't disagree with, don't get me wrong. I think for the average Christian, it becomes confusing as to how do we understand this then? What I'm saying is there is symbolism, there is metaphor. It's always in there. You got to look at how it's designed and you're right, right? It's in the context. But in the other hand, I think it's beyond that too, but what that means fully in Jesus, I'm not fully sure how that figure is out, but I'm not going to go to the other end to where the bread and the wine, like in communion always studies, flesh and blood, and you get a you got to drink all the wine and you all the bread. No, no, there's something in between and I

22:59haven't figured out what that is yet. I don't have a solid answer. Let's pick it up at verse 53, which is the heart of this. So Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you, pretty startling right now. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink, but he didn't stop there. He continues. He says, whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. As the living father sent me and I live because of the father. So whoever feeds on me, he will also live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the father's ate and died, whoever feeds on this bread will live forever. So I think I would stress that I believe it is metaphorical and it verse 58 kind of just underscores that for me.

24:05Can I ask you one more serious question and I'm really trying to learn. So let me wrong. We talk about being born again. Is that metaphorical? Because we don't see the person reborn in their body on the spot when Jesus says that or is that merely symbolic? No, I think it's an actual rebirth. Remember later on, that's in John chapter 3 with Jesus speaking to Nicodemus. He says this. He says spirit gives birth to spirit to spirit. Yep. Right. So I think what the phrase born again truly means is that you were dead spiritually and now that you believed and I have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, you've now been born spiritually or made alive spiritually. Anyone in Christ is a new creation. He's moved from death to life. All the passages that describe that you literally move from death being dead spiritually to being alive spiritually. John 3 says it this way. Spirit gives birth to spirit. You must be born again. So to me, born again is not metaphorical. It's an actual rebirth that happens when you

25:09move from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. That's why I love being on with you guys because this is why Christianity is all over the place on this stuff because the scripture with himself doesn't say this is metaphorical. This is symbolic. It gives it in a context and then we interpret it out of that context. All I'm saying is that when we talk about these things that we say are symbolic and I believe there's much of that. There's more to it spiritually than we comprehend that's going on about eating my flesh and drinking my blood. There's something greater than that. And so it's not just a nice metaphor. I think it goes stronger just like being born again is a real reality of a spiritual change just like you're saying, Jeff. Oh, I think there is a huge spiritual truth here. I totally agree with you. In fact, we've got a couple of minutes. Go back up to 29 here in John chapter 6. We work. John 6. Jesus answers, the work of God is this to believe in the one he sent. So they asked him, what sign then will you give us to say that we

26:12may see it and believe in you? What will you do? Our ancestors ate manna in the wilderness. Okay, now here's here's this bread metaphor come in in here. He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Jesus said to them, truly, I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my father who gives you the true bread from heaven for the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. Sir, give us this bread. It's the same question that the woman at the well asked about the living water. And so to me in that context, when Jesus then goes on in 35 already read that I am the bread of life and you have to take me in. And so that is because here verse 29, you have to believe later when we read that says, whoever believes will have eternal life. That is the heart of gaining eternal life. The spiritual birth that's being born again is simply by believing. And that's the testimony of the rest of the new testament all over the place. And so I think that is what Jesus is trying to teach them.

27:16Using the metaphor of bread or water in the case of John chapter four. Thank you. This is always delightful for me because I want to grow and understand. And like you guys, I want to be absolutely accurate of the word of God. So I'm trying my best to understand that. Thank you. Nicely done, gentlemen. I appreciate the banter and the discussion. And I think we're all trying to grow in our knowledge and understanding and we never, ever stop doing that. No, we don't. Amen. Until we take our last breath, we're still seeking God and his wisdom and his knowledge and understanding, which we're so glad we can do that. All right, we're going to take a break and come back. Lots more ahead. So stay with us. If you have a question or comment, the text line is just for you 877-93324-84. We'll be right back. He'll be right back. Bill needs a minute. He just needs a minute. Bill needs a minute. He'll be right back.

28:25Welcome back to the show. We appear to all be in one piece. That was a lively conversation we had. Yes. It was, but you know, it's fruitful. I mean, I come away from this bill and I'm thinking, and all this is going to do, Greg and Jeff, it's forced me back in the scriptures to look even harder. And I think that's what we all want to do and that's good. All right, here's a follow up question from last week. So thank you for listening last week and listening again this week. The question is, what are the differences between Seraphim, Cheribim and other angels, things like appearances and responsibilities, what were Satan and the other fallen angels? Well, the Seraphim and Cheribim, if you remember, the tabernacle, or the excuse me, I can't think of the name right now, where the bread was in, the man I was in. Oh, sure. What can I think of the Ark of the Covenant? Yes. Thank you. I am getting older. Ark of the Covenant. So what you have there are

29:31Cheribim, who are the only ones that had wings along with Seraphim, but Cheribim, the wings were touching each other and it was the seed of God. And so all we have to go on is that that was the the picture of those angels. So there are different types of angels. They're mentioned. They're you know, they're Seraphim, there's Cheribim, there's Archangel, as well as angels. And so there is a difference in those. So I'm going to, I agree. So the Cheribim, Cheribim and the Seraphim, the only place we ever see, either of these, and they seem to be different kinds of creatures, is in the throne of God, right? So there's, we see them in Revelation. I think Isaiah and the scene in heaven and Ezekiel, I think we see these creatures there. And these are the ones that have wings, just like you said, Greg. But then we have these angelic beings, which Satan was,

30:33which Michael was, the Archangel of Michael, and that a third of them rebelled and got thrown down to earth in the rest of them stayed in heaven. These angels, we commonly call them angels. Remember the word angel just means messenger. So we don't, and these angels, whenever they've appeared in Scripture, have always appeared in a bodily form. So when the angel appeared to Mary, he appeared as a man, and it appears in a bodily form. When the, the three angels appeared in Sodom and Gamora, they appeared as men. And that's how we see them. We don't see the, the wings, but they're messengers. But I kind of put that what we call generally called angels in a kind of in the separate class, all kind of grouped together into one kind of being, because I don't see any distinction in Scripture made between different kinds of angels, other than the Seraphim and the Seraphim. Well, the, the cherubim is actually mentioned in Genesis chapter three. That angel was the one that

31:36guarded so that they couldn't go back in again. And it says he drove out the man, and at the east of the garden, at the east of the garden of Eden, he placed the cherubim with end of flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. So I'm trying to understand what you just said, Jeff, there is, they're all angels. They're all angels, but there, there's some differences between them. I don't, I don't know what was it. Is that being the Seraphim that's in Genesis? Is it called an angel in that account? It's called a cherubim. Right. So that's what I mean. I look at cherubim and Seraphim and angels as three distinct types of beings. Oh, you're well. Okay. So there's angels and then there's cherubim and there's Seraphim is what you're saying. Yes. They, they seem different to me from the biblical description. That on, they're all angelic beings, if you will, you know, of around the throne. But only, yeah. So I just see them as kind of

32:38distinct in, in form. Because as you said, we see wings, for example, six wing creatures around the throne, the Seraphim that, you know, they have these wings, they, they worship God around the throne. And that's where we see, and yet angels, we see coming down to earth kind of in a bodily form, if you will. So I see them as a different class of being, if you will. Interesting. Nice job. 877-933-2484. Next question. Is there any type of sexual immorality in the bedroom for a married couple husband and wife? That's an interesting question. I, I'd, in the sleep, don't know biblically where it, it, it says that. Although I think there's just wisdom and what that should be. And I, I'm going to stop there because I'm going to get in trouble. So you guys want to jump in here? Come on. I need their doctor doctor. Well, if you're talking

33:39about sexual immorality, it may be, is it abusive sex? Sure. Is it dominant sex? I mean, if you're treating your spouse as an object rather than a loved one, to me, that borders right in the center of sexual immorality. Yeah, it does. Good word. All right. Oh, Jeff, you got something? No, I was just going to say that I, you know, read the passages on sexual immorality and see what they all are in scriptures and, and then understand that. And I, yeah, I think you need to have a loving relationship in, in the sexual way. It's a gift from God. So treated as a gift from God. And I, I don't want to comment more about people's private bedroom lives. So thank you for that. All right. Um, question. Why does it seem that some of the world's smartest

34:39people, and of course, smartest is in quotations. And the side people like Bill Nyer, Stephen Hawking, why they all reject the idea of a God. They're all either atheist, agnostic, or nothing. What do you think about these highly intellectual people or people that come across that way? They're so arrogant. And they, they're either atheist or agnostic or nothing. Not every highly intelligent individual is an atheist. Um, so who are they talking about? I mean, Pascal was not an atheist. He was a follower of God, a follower of Christ. Um, so, you know, Michelangelo. Um, I mean, so we're talking about a subset here. And, um, you've heard me talk on the show before about different types of ignorance. You know, you can be ignorant, unintentionally ignorant, unintentionally, and arrogantly ignorant, which is what you're getting at, that people who feel they have a corner on knowledge and, and derive their own wisdom

35:46from that, um, sense of having the correct knowledge often produces arrogance apart from the humility that comes from bending your knee to Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. What other avenue do they have? What other idol can they embrace other than resting in the arms of their own intellect and their own, um, knowing something that most people don't know and coming across that way. They have nothing else except that. I know the smartest man in the world. And I just pulled him up here. He identified as the smartest man in the world. He's got a 200 IQ, uh, Christopher Langan. And I've seen him in interviews. And he comes right out and says, well, of course, God exists. Of course, Jesus was who he said he was. He said, that's logical, which was amazing for a man as you know, that high of a scale. I think that it doesn't matter how high your IQ is, it, what, what are your priorities in life? If your priorities are wealth and

36:49its success and its fame, I don't care if you got a 300 IQ, you're going to go down the wrong path eventually and you're going to alienate. But with an IQ like this, if you really under, look, go down the path and say, there is a God. He really isn't charged. He's really revealed himself. Then I think you've gone down the right path and all of us are capable of doing that no matter what our IQ level is. Yeah. God says in Psalm 53, one, the fool says in his heart, there is no God. So they may claim to be wise, but they're really fools in God's eyes. And in fact, Romans 1 makes it clear that that God's glory as eternal power as his being has been made clearly known by what has been made. For although they knew God, they do not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking. And they exchanged the truth of God for the lives and the worship and serve created things that's Romans 1. So God does not see people

37:53like that as being smart as being wise. He sees them actually as being fools and of sees them as futile in their thinking. I see it as another form of adultery about what the idol is is your intellect and you worship your intellect and are wanting to showcase it every chance that you get. And so that is a form of idolatry in my view. Well, Jeff, you're always come up and you say it bivicly right, made up of heart, mind and soul. If I remember that, okay, and I always add body because that's in one place too, but a heart, mind and soul, you can have the greatest intellect in the world in your mind, but that doesn't mean it's affected your soul or your spirit. And if you don't have the high intellect there that submits to the Lord Jesus Christ, then you miss the whole boat. And so I think we can we can look at the Bill Gates out there. We can look at the others fairy intelligent people to develop great things for a society. But that doesn't mean that's their spiritual life. That doesn't mean they spiritually understand what's going on. And that's why even to

38:56them we have to share the gospel. I would propose that Solomon by all that he did had an extremely high intellect. He did. But just because you have an intellect doesn't mean you don't do stupid things. And he did a few of those. And and he was even given something more than his intellect. He was given wisdom. So just having wisdom isn't the answer either. It depends on how you apply that wisdom. Well, how do we get true biblical wisdom, right? So you go to the Proverbs and God tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It's the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom and instruction. And if you go on and and all the way through Proverbs seven, we begin to realize that the wisdom of God, who is the wisdom of God according to Corinthians? It's Christ. So the true wise in this world according to God are believers. They have the true wisdom of God. So that's why Paul says in first Corinthians one, but God chose the foolish things

39:57of this world to shame the wise God chose the weak things of this world to shame the strong. That's kind of what I think he meant when he said the first shall be last and the last will be first. So you look at these smart men and they're truly not smart in God's eyes because they don't recognize God. I would hope that we would see a person like that who's declaring himself an atheist and that in our spirit, we would just pray for them because at one time there will be a time where that knee will bow and that tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord and then they'll be separated separated for all eternity. Good word. That's exactly right, Bill. Everyone, I don't care who you are, are going to bend your knee before Almighty God. Everyone and your choices when you choose to do it. This side of glory or after we're dead and we're in his presence to be too late then, but you will still bow your knee against the majesty of Almighty God.

40:58It's the greatest gift we have as believers. There's nothing, nothing I want in light of my salvation. Agreed. Nothing. Because we leave it all here into eternity. We have, we're with the Lord face to face. So we're going to take a break and be Jeff, we're going to say something else before break. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. All right. We'll be right back with more guide talk. Thanks for the great questions. We still have time to get yours in. 877-933-2484. Be right back. Hi podcast listener. You know, I'm Bill Arnold and my theme song says, What's for dinner? And like, when I'm grilling, I'm paying really close attention. And I know that I deal second to get the food off the grill. Like all good and ideal timings in life right now would be an ideal time to be a cheerful giver to faith radio. Give now to support this podcast so that more people and more

42:00places might come to saving faith in Jesus and grow in their relationship and become a fully devoted follower. Click the link in the show notes or give now at myfaithradio.com. I'm back with Greg B. Tom P and Jeff V. That's the panel, the guy talk panel that faithfully come every week to spend time here on this program, which I find amazing. I'm so grateful. And so thankful that you guys do this weekend and week out and you get nothing from me. Believe me, Bill, it's our honor to be here. Okay. Thank you. All right. My next question is Ephesians chapter one verse 11. I'll read it in him. We were also chosen having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will. The question is,

43:01does God does all things according to the counsel of his will? Does that mean all? How does this impact predestination? Did God choose Saul and Paul? This is one of the places where predestination has talked about in scriptures. If you have a Bible, like an NIV Bible, it's very interesting, because it says in him, we were also chosen, but then there'll be a footnote there. And this Greek word is a little difficult to translate. Some translations will see or made errors. In him, we were also made errors having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything. So in Ephesians 1, the use of this predestination and this chosen doesn't say that some are predestined or chosen unto salvation. It says that those who believed have been made errors according to the plan of God's salvation. That's all it says. By the way, the other predestination is in Romans 8

44:02and there it says, we're predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, meaning that it doesn't, once again, it doesn't say that some are chosen unto salvation. It says that the saved are predestined to glorification. All right? So let's go back to Ephesians 1 really quick. Greg actually read this in the first hour when we get to verse 13. In verses 1 through 12 and even 13, there's about 10 different descriptions of things that we have now that we're our believers in Christ. Then you get to verse 13 and it tells you how we came into having all of those. And that is this. And you are also included in Christ when you heard the message, the gospel of your salvation, having believed you were marked in him with the seal, the promise Holy Spirit was a deposit guarantee in our inheritance. So I think scripture is saying that we enter into the state of being

45:06saved through faith, having believed. Once you believed, then God will save, save you. And who does he save? He offers salvation to all and whosoever believes, he will be saved. Actually done. All right. You know, one of the distinctions I would like to make is that when we're talking about the will of God, you have God's sovereign will that you couldn't thwart no matter what you did. It's a sovereign will. Then you have God's permissive will within that realm, you can choose to disobey God. Both are his will, but there's differences between the two. I agree with that distinction in the sense that I think Oestom mentioned a couple of these verses earlier. God wishes none should perish. He desires all to be saved. He wants the whole world to repent and to believe in him. And yet he that's not part of his sovereign will. He doesn't decree that all

46:13are saved. He offers it. That's the desires of his heart. And that's what he wants. And that's what he has accomplished through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And he offers that to all. And so he either offers it to all or he doesn't. And I think scripture is clear. So that's part of his will that he desires that none should perish, but all to come to repentance. But that doesn't mean that all therefore then repent and are saved. So there's clearly a distinction between what did you call it? His sovereign will. Yes, sovereign will is that nobody can thwart and his permissive will. There you go. When we were talking about the white throne judgment, where every knee will bow, every tongue will confess. A comment came in a question that says, just something I always think about. I always wonder if the scoffers will one day when they stand in front of God, still be so full of bravado, still be scoffing at God when they see him in his fullness.

47:20Interesting question, comment. Well, they'll be made to kneel and they will confess that Jesus is Lord. You can still be a scoffer, but then be forced to speak the truth. And in that day, they will speak the truth whether they want to or not. Yeah, that day is the only day. And throughout all of mankind's history, when everybody is together in one place and bill as you kind of intimated, that's the day that I believe that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess. You're either on one side of that judgment with Christ judging the world. Don't you know that the saints will judge the world or you're before the throne of God being judged and your names are not found in the Lamb's book of life? The good news is we can voluntarily bow now because we'll voluntarily bow then those that won't bow now will be made to bow then because he is Lord and they're not going to get around that. All right, here's the here's the lightning round because we have a minute left. Old Testament saints, were they just sleeping when they died since Samuel was

48:21disturbed? That's all had the woman call him up. That's from first Samuel 28. So I think there's this I think they're in the grave sheol. Okay. The Old Testament description. The New Testament's called the Hades. And so the two sides from Luke 16 that we see paradise on one side comfort, the bosom of Abraham or torment in the flames on the other side of great chasm in between. So I think when Samuel went to the paradise side or the bosom of Abraham side, that's where he was called up from. Luke 16 doesn't show them sleeping. I think they're conscious, conscious in this place called Hades. But remember after Hades, I'm sorry, after the cross, all of the good side of Hades have now been brought up to heaven. When David said, don't abandon me in sheol. Don't abandon me in the grave. God basically says, no, don't worry. I got a plan. And now David would be up in heaven because now Christ the Lamb of God has paid for the sins of the world. When I agree with you and think about

49:24the transfiguration who showed up Moses and Elijah, they were very much alive, consulting and talking with Jesus. I'm looking at still a number of questions that I didn't get to Chad and Jackie and Carla and Scott and Renee. I am sorry, we didn't have time to cover these wonderful questions. We'll do our best to get to them next time we gather for guide talk. That's the show though. For the day I so appreciate you tuning in. Every time you give us a little word of encouragement, I have to say it goes such a long way. It's a very, very meaningful. So thank you for your kind and loving comments. Have a great night and we'll do this again. Thanks for listening. Programming like this is made available through your support. Information available at myfaithradio.com. Coming this Easter, an epic four-part audio podcast series, The Christ.

50:27My hour has not yet come. My son, your hour was written before time. Starring David O'Yellowow, who claims to be a king, Tom Palfrey. My kingdom is not of this world. Paul Walter Hauser. He is the light, the true light. With narration from John Restavis and Patricia Heaton, The Christ, wherever you listen to podcasts. Bart Millard, lead singer of Mercy Me, says there was a season when his faith felt anything but strong. Literally feel like I was hanging by a thread. Like even the stuff is as simple as God is good all the time. All the time God is good. Like saying these things, you know, I didn't believe that. That's what would get the biggest amen if I said it from a crowd. So if I did the right things on the outside, no one would interfere with the inside. In one of the hardest times, Bart learned God's love is secure and so is his identity in Christ. Hear Bart Millard's story on this week's episode of The Unfolding on Apple and Spotify. And at MyFaithPodcasts.com