Getting it Done: The Dale Brown era at LSU

0:00And that's the end of the first half, as the team said to the locker room, the Spartans lead the Bulldogs by a score. You guys stink. Jeez, Coach, we're only down a couple of points. No, I mean, you guys really smell. You need to hit the showers. And here, I got every one of you new bars of soap from the Sterling soap company. Each bar is artisan crafted using natural ingredients and essential oils. They also have shaved soap's cologne's beard balm and a whole lot more. Now get in there. But Coach, we have another half to play. I don't care. I can't stand to be around you a few minutes later. All right, bring it in tight. You guys are still playing terrible, but you're smelling great out there. Now listen, you're going to need to stock up for the rest of the season. We got a lot of tough games left. So go to sterlingsoap.com after the game. That's STIRL-I-N-G-Sope.com. You got that? Yes, Coach? Great. SterlingSope.com on three. One, two, three. SterlingSope.com. This podcast is part of the sports history network.

1:02Your headquarters for the yesterday year of your favorite sport. You can learn more at sportshistorynetwork.com. Take a time in his reign. He lost in Indiana in 81 in the 7 finals. And for the third time in the school's history, the LSU Tigers are going to the final pool. Sports go back in the day. From Atlanta, it's Dana on the mic, talking old school.

2:04Let's just bring a history to life. We don't need like a spiral in a super dome. Back when half-leafs, let the game do the talking alone. Join fadeaways, Jackie in the zone. Ali in the ring, many stood all along. From the Negro leagues to the ABA. We'd back it all down, yet a classic way. It's troughs from the districts straight out the boot. Southern university pride. Repent truth in the boot from bad and rose to the nation's capital. Let's just on deck. Yeah, we factual tales that are great. Glow chains and on. Baseball, who dreams enough of ball. We're all no clickbait. No fluff, just the facts we'll say. Is this story please speaking sports from back in the day? Sports go back in the day. Dana and John's got something to say. Old school team boots all the way. Is stories please speaking the real play ball day.

3:09Sports go back in the day. Legends stop on, we press play. So sit back, tune in, and hit replay. It's historically speaking sports. The classic way. Between 1972 and 1997, the South Eastern Conference and basketball grew a stature from just being a premier football conference. During that time of growth of both prominence and popularity, the team most emblematic of that growth in national prestigious located in, of all places, Ben Rouge, Louisiana. And the leader of this team from the sidelines was from of all places, North Dakota. Hello sports fans, I'm Dana Augusto, the co-host of the historically speaking sports podcast. My co-host, Charles Holmes, will be around shortly. In this all new episode of the podcast, Charles Holmes and I will delve into the Dale Brown era

4:12at Louisiana State University. Doing his tenure with the Tigers, Dale Brown didn't just coach LSU basketball. He made it matter in a football craze state. He built a national brand. He took a program that had flashes of relevance and turned it into a powerhouse that can go toe-to-toe with anyone in the country. This was the era of superstars, such as Chris Jackson, who would later become mock mood Abdul Raouf, who scoring brilliance electrified the country and garnered comparisons to Pete Maravitch. It was also the era of the unstoppable force of Shaquille O'Neal, a once in a generation talent who turned LSU into must-see TV. And before then, there was Rudy McLean, leading the Tigers to the final four for the first time in nearly since the early 1950s. But the Dale Brown era wasn't just about wins and NBA draft picks. It was about personality, passion and conviction.

5:14Brown was outspoken, emotional and sometimes controversial. The coach who wore his heart on his sleeve and fought fiercely for his players. He believed LSU could compete with the Blue Bull as a college basketball and for stretches from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s. It absolutely did. Later on in the show, we were sent a shout out to the recently departed Dwight Bolamar. While Dale Brown was a significant figure for LSU, Bolamar put the University of Louisiana at Lafayette on the map. At the time, known as Louis University of Southwestern Louisiana, Lamar was one of the most devastating scorers in the history of college basketball. In the early 1970s, he led the raging cages to a conference title. And not only did that, between 1971 and 1973, the cages possessed the second best overall record in the country, only behind John Woodens UCLA Bruins.

6:15We have all of this and more coming up on the Historically Speaking Sports Podcast to place. We'll be giving you the best of sports from back in the day right here on the Sports History Network. Hey there. Welcome to Music Meets Sports, where sports legends meet custom soundtracks. Founded by music producer Ronald Taik Oliver, Music Meets Sports was created to bridge generations, educate fans, and celebrate the greatness of both current and former athletes. We craft original songs about heroes in basketball, football, baseball, boxing, and beyond, highlighting their struggles and victories. Across all musical genres, we reintroduce fans to their favorite athletes in a way they've never heard before, from Babe Ruth to Reggie White, from rising WMBA stars to timeless NFL great stream, or download our music now on Apple Music, Amazon, and Spotify.

7:16Visit musicmeetsports.org to explore the catalog, hear new releases, and join the movement that's preserving sports history. One song at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, we're back here on this edition of the Historically Speaking Sports Podcast to give you the best of sports from back in the day. I'm Dana Auguster, once again, joined by my right hand, my partner in sports history, Crime Charles Combs, and Chuck, how you doing on this Sunday night? I am doing very well, no longer living in an igloo. It finally warmed up. I think it's supposed to possibly snow tomorrow, but apparently next weekend it's supposed to be nearly 80, so looks like the frigid portion of winter is over, but really looking forward to the date's topic, and gave me an opportunity to really relieve a ton of my childhood, so looking forward to it. And it's a lot of, it's both of our childhoods, and I know everybody that has clicked on to this podcast episode,

8:20knows what we're talking about, and to give you a little bit of a little further explanation of what we're doing. This is the, we're talking about LSU basketball, and I know that LSU basketball is not, at its best right now, but once a part of time it was, and it was under the tutelage of legendary head coach, Dale Brown. Between 1972 and 1997, LSU had, is best run of, is most successful run in the history of the program. Now, they've had some spots of success previous to his hiring in 1972. They made the final four in 1953, you know, led by Bob Pettit. They had their brief encounter with Pete Marevich, but they never played in the tournament. But this was the most sustained era of success of LSU basketball ever. And we're going to get into all of the particulars of Bob Coach Brown and what he meant to this program,

9:20and not only to, not only would he meant to the athletic program of LSU, but also to the state of Louisiana, and basketball in the state of Louisiana, which he once quipped that the hardest thing in the world to sell is the sport of basketball in Louisiana. But you know what, he did a very, very good job of doing that, doing his tenure in Van Rouge. So Chuck, before we get really rolling here, let's talk about what you remember about Coach Brown and his teams at LSU. I remember about Coach Brown and his teams at LSU. It was a lot of things, a lot of personification of necessary things in life lessons. I think a lot of times what gravitates fans to sports is how many things can parallel to life and all of that. You know, because like a lot of times, it was a lot of storylines. He was bigger than life. As you mentioned, he was trying to get the state of Louisiana,

10:21which is a vastly football state interested in basketball pretty much. So he had that fight along with LSU. They would never like a big time basketball program. But throughout his tenure, it was larger than life circumstances. Larger than life, story arc as far as the team will concern. Larger than life on the back end, larger than life characters in terms of some of the players themselves and they'll brown himself. So it was really, really, really good to go back and revisit him, because you know, it's a big part of my childhood. You know, their brown was a big icon. If you were kid and bad and rude, there's three things you like. Their brown LSU basketball, but skiing, building the Monday morning march. And, you know, junkyard dog, mid-soft wrestling, cowboy bill watch, and I'll add a fourth price to the blunt Toyota, baby. So, you know, just larger than life characters, man.

11:22So really looking forward to going down memory lane a bit. Okay, I mean, the things that I remember about LSU basketball during the time was that you knew it was a big game where I lived in South Louisiana. We didn't get a lot of LSU games on television, but with me growing up, where I grew up in South Louisiana, it was more like, if you saw an LSU basketball game on like a Tuesday night and it wasn't on ESPN, you knew it was a big game. And nine times out of 10, they were playing either Kentucky or Alabama or Arkansas, you know, doing those years. Because those were like the, those like primetime games that was not being broadcast on ESPN, they were mostly, ESPN in the 80s was mostly, you know, the Big E's, ACC, Big Ten, SEC was kind of an afterthought, you know, doing them early to mid 80s. And it wasn't until I think the success of LSU and Dale Brown in the 80s and going into the early part of the 1990s

12:24that LSU established a little bit of a tent, of a tent peg in the national consciousness when it came to college basketball in the South. Everybody knew Kentucky, everybody knew Alabama and Arkansas, everybody knew those teams, but they didn't really understand all the other teams and how good they were. Florida was not a national product then, you know, Auburn, they had Charles Barkley, but it wasn't really for a long period of time, you know. Georgia was known for football, but they had resperced, but wasn't anywhere near long enough. So LSU basically doing that time in addition to Kentucky, put the SEC on the map, it's for us like a national product, you know, I know the couple guys they would show up at LSU, show up in Ban Rouge along with Dale Brown in the late 80s, early 90s, they really put LSU on the map, you know. But there was a couple of instances where LSU caught the national spotlight and we're gonna talk about that in a bit.

13:26So who was some of your favorite players from that time period? There's a lot, you say characters and there's a lot of characters on these teams. Well, you got me to think in just and what you just mentioned in terms of the overall landscape of the SEC at the time. Like the SEC outside of Kentucky didn't really have that big time Blue Chill basketball program. Alabama could be at times. Now just caveat, Arkansas was in the Southwest Conference until like the early 90s. We may join the SEC. So they were in the Southwest Conference, that was the Joe Klein days and all that. Anyway, what I liked about the SEC, unlike most conferences specifically the big 10, not not big 10, I'm sorry, the ACC of the Big East where they had all these dominant programs. SEC, they didn't have the teams,

14:27but they had the ballers, you know. They had the ballers, like for example, you know, you know, later Dale Brown's career, you know, he had Chris Jackson, they had Shaq, you know, before that, they had, you know, other than Achimalized one, the coldest turn around jump I've ever seen in my life. The Keaton Wilson, well, nobody see it, it's turned around jumper. You remember, you mentioned Charles Barkley, you remember Barkley has always maintained the best player he ever played against in college was an LSU cat by the name of little Swat Mitchell. Yeah, little Mitchell, you know, I mean, you mentioned, you mentioned Georgia briefly. Remember, Georgia had Dominique Wilkins. Remember, a very flammable, Vern Fleming, remember, Florida had Vernon Maxwell, you know what I mean, Tennessee had Alan Houston. And then, you know, Van the built, you know, they were good in basketball, despite the limitations to talent due to their, academic standards, academic standing, and all of that.

15:28So it was a whole, then you even go back to Ole Miss, they had Roderick Barnes, they had Gerald World Class glass, you know, just, just ballers, you know what I mean? And, you know, in Louisiana, as you mentioned, we're not really a basketball state, but so since we're not, it's crazy about basketball. We're passionate about it, but not nearly as passionate about football. So winning and losing doesn't matter as much as being entertained. We're more than fine with a tournament and conference contending team with a guy that could get your 50th day at night, that they could fill it up. We're more than welcome to watch that, but the SEC was really a lot of hitting gyms in terms of really outstanding singular plays at that time. Exactly, I mean, you think of the landscape of the SEC at the time, I mean, you named the whole bunch of guys

16:30that were exactly what you thought they were ballers. They were guys that could, on any given, I could fill it up for 30, 35, 40 points, you know. And the SEC was known for that doing that time. You know, I mean, we had Kentucky, you know, who was like the only one that was like a really legitimate at times, a legitimate title contender. But as far as like individual stars that people could actually gravitate to, a lot of them were in the SEC, and I think that doing the time, the SEC kind of got a bad rap because they were still trying to have that team aspect type of thing going in college basketball. And the SEC was basically like showing what the future of college basketball was going to be in the 1980s, instead of, you know, what it really became in the late 90s and 2000s. They were, so on what ahead of the game, I think? Yes, they were definitely ahead of the game

17:31in terms of the approach. And I think the approach was, they didn't lock their guys in the barn, you know, they let their bridge run. You know, like, for example, you know, you and I have always had a running joke through the years. The only guy that could ever stop Michael Jordan was Dean Smith, you know, because he just, you know, you got big game, James, you got Mike. Why the hell we running the four corners? Right. Sam Perkins. Why you got Sam Perkins on it? Why let the dogs eat, you know, exactly, for example, you know what I mean? I mentioned a lot of ballers, I excluded a few because we mentioned Alabama as a program, but you remember, man, he's their book Johnson, their key, then they had, but for it, then they had James Hollywood Robinson, then they had a trail spree, well, they always had ballers too, you know what I mean? Just ballers, so the SEC was kind of ahead of the curve

18:32in a little bit like if you have formulating their game plans or their offensive systems to maximize the talents of their start player. You know, it was still within a team concept, but they would, you know, they knew that they would only go as far or as high as their best players could carry them. So they kind of structured the structure of the ball club as well as the schematic, especially offensively in reflection of that. All right, so we're talking about Dale Brown, okay? And his tenure at LSU is, if you look at it from a statistical aspect of it, it's truly remarkable considering everything that he's done at that school and it's somewhat, you know, crazy that he's not really remembered as well as a lot of people would have if he was at a like another school,

19:34you know, LSU of course is known for football, this known for baseball, and it's known for track, okay? Basketball in a way for lack of a better term here in Louisiana, in Louisiana is somewhat tolerated, but you have somebody with the resume, and we're gonna go through the resume in a second. If you had to resume of a Dale Brown, if you coach somewhere else, he would be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. In fact, Dale Brown is, in my opinion, is in my top five all time greatest coaches to never win a championship, you know, and I'm gonna go through that list in a bit, but he's up there and he should have won a championship at LSU, at least one with the type of teams that he had, but it's one of those things where, it's like six and one hand half a dozen in the other, you know what I mean? Because on one respect, you had a team to reach the final four that he had, that had no business being there,

20:36and then you had other teams that had more than a legitimate shot of winning it all with the personnel that they had, but couldn't get out of the first round. So it was like, you know, it was like, you've got the players, you've got the horses, but you couldn't get there, but you, in certain to the another situation, you have a team that literally over-enchieved and got to the final four unexpectedly, and in a number of cases, two times of teams that really didn't really have a, with somewhat of a, of a sender relic to make it to the final four, okay? So let's run down and, you know, just a little bit, just touch on his resume, 15 straight national tournament appearances. The only SEC coach to accomplish that, 15 straight tournament appearances, second and wins behind eight off-rump in the South using conference.

21:37Brown and Rupp are the, each had 17 consecutive non-losing seasons. Brown was one of seven coaches to lead two or more teams to the final four from the South Eastern Conference. Those other coaches, maybe you've heard of these. John Calapari, Billy Donovan, Joe B. Hall, Rick Patino, Nolan Richardson, and eight off-rump. That's a pretty good company. That's coaching. That's getting it done. That's for sure. And, you know, I guess due to his location's personality and how outspoken he could be in terms of, not only the NCAA, but also non-basketball things. Sometimes his actual, his actual competence gets tremendously overlooked as a result. Yeah, and he was very critical. We could touch on this real quick. He was very critical of the NCAA

22:39for a number of different incidents and a number of different ways, you know, for what I could remember. He used to call the NCAA, the NCAA stuff are not caring about athletes. You know, that was his, that was his ammo, you know, about how the NCAA treated players and stuff like that. He was pretty much an early proponent of fan players, you know, to come to the head. He was very, he was an early proponent of that. He was, he was a very, he was really on the side of athletes, more than most coaches of his stature, especially doing that time, you know, that he coached in the 70s and 80s. Yes, he certainly was. He was definitely a proponent of that because, you know, like a lot of these players, especially being from in the deep south and then recruiting, recruiting a lot of players from Louisiana and some of those southern states, they would have very, very humble beginnings. And so like a lot of times, they,

23:40the NCAA would kind of kind of be a bit too harsh in terms of what was, quote unquote, an improper benefit. So as a result, you know, Dale was like, man, damn, man, you guys make all this money, all these TV contracts, and then obviously this was the infancy of what NCAA sports, as well as basketball will ultimately become from a television standpoint, right? But he could, he could see the writing on the wall that you're making all this money, but then a lot of the players that are the revenue drivers, you give them hell. And all of that in terms of, you know, money outside of hoops and all of that. So he was definitely ahead of his time. He was definitely a player's coach and he definitely had all of his players and athletes back. Well, one thing, another thing that he was the early proponent of is recruiting outside of the United States. He was a early proponent of that, you know,

24:40we got like Gert Hammock, you know, and Jose Vargas, you know, Zora Giovanna Vitch, you know, he went bring players from Europe. He had no problem going overseas to recruit players to come to LSU. And he was an early proponent of that. And again, a lot of these coaches now have no problems going overseas to try to get a player from Europe or the Dominican or South America or somewhere to come play for their squad knowing that the, and he had the fourth thought that basketball was slowly becoming a global game. And he was an early proponent of trying to take advantage of that, doing his tenure at LSU. Yes, also Tito Horford. Remember Chinko, you know, cats like that. And then he was also a proponent against the prop 48 rule at the time, you know, because you know, at the time, you know, proposition 48,

25:41where I guess if a student wasn't able to get like a, even if they passed ACC, the ACT, I'm sorry. Yeah. But you didn't get a certain score or, you know, a metric, depending on a certain score, your great point average coming out of high school, you were an eligible as a freshman automatically. A lot, a lot of times. So no, regardless of, you know, what they did academically as a freshman in school, they were in eligible, because I'm the spirit of the rule was okay. He obviously needs to get his feet under him because he's a quote unquote student athlete, get his feet under him as far as being a student is concerned. Then we can add the athlete part onto it. But like a lot of times he was against that a lot of times as well because they would have to sit out an entire, an entire season and all of that. So he was really ahead of the curve and he really was staunchly against the NCAA on a variety of fronts. Now to continue his resume,

26:42two-time national coach of the year, he beat Kentucky 18 more times more than any other coach ever in any conference. And another, another stat, but I think is one of the most important stats. 115 of 160 players that he coached received their college degree. Between 1979 and 1993, LSU recorded had reached a postseason tournament either the NCAA or the NIT, a total of 15 seasons, 13 of 15 tournament with NCAA tournament players. Two final fours, 1981 and 1986, four SEC regular season titles, 1979, 1981, 1985, and 1991. 1980 SEC tournament champ, which is the only time LSU basketball team had ever won the SEC tournament. 1981 sporting news college basketball player the coach of the year and four time SEC coach of the year.

27:44So that's a pretty, pretty good resume for a team, for a guy that coached the basketball team at a college that's best known for football. Getting it done and the most important stat that you mentioned was getting those degrees, getting those diplomas from a lot of those guys, because they've had a lot of great players throughout the years. But despite that, making the NBA is a long shot. So to be able to not only cultivate the players on the court, but help cultivate them off the court, first of all, to help them see the importance and the necessity of a college education and degree. But then also, you know, cultivate and mentor them and help them take the steps towards accomplishing that feat. Just a great, great coach, great legendary coach. And as you mentioned earlier,

28:46like how sometimes he would have an abundance of talent and couldn't get it done. But then he could get it done with less talent. I think he was besieged, unfortunately, with a couple of extremes where he was so used to working with the cupid is barren. So he had to get very, very creative to kind of help overcome some of those deficiencies, whereas some of those more talented teams, it was a bit more difficult to do not only from the standpoint of navigating the personalities, but also getting people to accept the proper roles in order to, for team success. Cause you know, when nobody is no good, it's easy, I'm not gonna say no good, but they're less talented and they shouldn't, they're not really talented enough to be there. It's easy to get people to accept those roles to, you know, for the, for the grade of good. But then when you get the talented players, I think it was a tale of extremes. Like if you could have had some of the talent

29:49with the talent, but some of those intangibles from those less talented teams, then he really would have been cooking, you know, but, you know, great coach. Like I said, he took over in 1972. Now, who would have thought that someone with a legendary career at Louisiana State University would come from North Dakota of all places. You know, he from a little small town called My Not North Dakota. And this was his first college head coaching job. He had been college, he had been a high school head coach. He was a college assistant coach for a number of years before taking over at LSU in 1972. And let's give you a little bit of a landscape of LSU athletics in 1972, which I found interesting. LSU football, led by the legendary, what we used to call Charlie Mack, Charles McClendon.

30:49He was in his 11th season at LSU. His quarterback was a man named Bert Jones. Now, he was going into his senior year in 1973. Bert Jones was still the quarterback at LSU in 1972. LSU that year went nine, two, and one on the season, four, one, and one, and it was good enough for third place in the SEC. Interestingly enough, LSU, Georgia and Ole Miss, that year became the last teams in the United States to integrate. LSU Ole Miss and Georgia were that year integrated, allow black players to play in their teams for the first time in 1972, which is crazy to me. But that year they lost to Tennessee and to get this. Remember the Astro Blue Bonnet Bowl? Remember it? They lost to Tennessee 24 to 17 in that game.

31:51Meanwhile, LSU baseball finished second in the SEC, Western Division, to Ole Miss, who defeated Vanderbilt to win the SEC and the SEC tournament to go to Omaha. They had a record, LSU that year had a record, a 21 and 21 overall, seven and 11 in the SEC. Dale Brown would replace head coach press marriage, and who, of course, is the father of Pete Maravitch. The year before the Tiger from the 14th that year, let's see, I don't have a doubt, but they had a losing season under press Maravitch, this last season in 1971, so they had to bring in a new coach. Press Maravitch decided to go on, his son had already left for the pros. So Dale Brown, guest head coach and job in 1972, and the Tigers in his first season had a winning record, 14 and 10, not had a 500 record in the SEC, 99, and finished fifth in the South Eastern Conference.

32:52And of course, you had Kentucky with Joe B. Hall, who had just taken over for eight off-rub, and LSU would continue to battle their way through the mid-70s by the late 70s, I have written down. They went 15 and 12, and then in 78, they went 18 and nine. Okay, setting the stage for the breakout year for Dale Brown and LSU, which was in 1979. Yes, sir, and just kind of, the feeling of a couple of gaps in terms of the Annepte, the two of LSU basketball pride to his arrival, you know, when he arrived in 1972, they had only had two winning seasons, and no NCAA tournament appearances, and only one NIT appearance in six years. They hadn't been to the NCAA tournament, and they had only had four winning seasons since 1954. You know, so they just were totally,

33:54total ineptitude, and then, you know, to fill in the gap on press. Maravitch, he had gone, obviously, you know, it was because who his son was, it had nothing to do with him. They went 10 and 16 in his final season. So yes, he kind of, kind of at the same time, you know, as you mentioned, you know, started out 14 and 10 the first year, 99. But at first year, they finished fifth, despite being picked to finish last in SEC, and then he started the inroads, because everybody thought he was crazy, because he immediately started running all over the state, trying to sell basketball in a football rich state, not only to gain fandom, but also lay down the foundation for recruiting purposes and all of that. So then eventually, to your point, it leaves us to 1979, and the breakthrough that they finally broke through after steadily going up the mountain, bill is in. 1979, LSU goes 23 and six.

34:56That year, 14 and four in the SEC, that when their first regular season championship, first team SEC performer from LSU, these guys, the Wayne Scales and Al Green. The Wayne Scales 19.12 rebounds per game that year, and Al Green was 17 points per game that year. First tournament appearance for the Tigers is 1954, but they reached the sweet 16 that year, something that was seen insurmountable, but here's the thing, and here's the start of a recurring theme. They lose in the sweet 16 to Magic Johnson and Michigan State 87 to 71, okay? But one of the key players that they lose, early in the season, that would become a major factor down the road for them, is a forward by the name of Rudy Macklin. He got lost in the second game of the season and was lost for the year,

35:58but they end up losing to Michigan State, the eventual national champion, and which will become a recurring theme for LSU throughout not only 1979, but throughout most of the 1980s, losing to the eventual national champion. Yes, they made a lot of strides led by the Wayne Scales and Al Green, finished 14 and four in SEC, won regular season title, and as you mentioned before, made the sweet 16 before I lose in the Magic Johnson, and Judd Heathcoke and all of those guys. Greg Kelser, that team. But key component that we have to take into account, the Wayne Scales was suspended, but the entire tournament due to violating team rules. Now, once again, that goes to, that speaks to their brown in terms of his emphasis on building young men as opposed to basketball players, because you know, and I know, and probably me too, I'm not sitting one of my ballers for the tournament,

37:01I don't care what he did, but, you know, he saw the big pictures, he's trying to develop great young men, as opposed to simply basketball players. So even if it may cost them, result-wise, it even him professionally, cultivating him as a young man was more important. So you sit out for the tournament, we don't care what the consequences on the court as a result of that. Do you think that at times, Dale Brown was a little bit too much of a disciplinarian? I know he's known as the master motivator, I know that he has, he had like certain concrete rules that made him such as an old-school coach, but do you think that some of the decisions that he may, especially later in his career, dealing with that style that he had of being like overly disciplined, could have cost him later on down in the years, or have cost him in certain situations? You probably did, it probably did, but sometimes, you know, it's about the big picture sometimes.

38:06You know, you're trying to develop, you try to find anything, and I'm sure you're the same way. I try to be the same way, you try to find things in people better than you left them. Yeah. You know, regardless, and sometimes, did it cost him some success? Obviously, but I wouldn't say that he was too disciplined because all you got to do is look at what's going on now, just in the world in general, just now, how there's a lack of discipline, and people are just totally out of control, you know, and so I don't think that he was too disciplined because you know, you just can't, you know, sometimes you have to kind of, you know, kind of nip things in the bud, and you're trying to develop these young men as people, you know, now, you're trying to win some basketball games too, but you want, you know, we've covered several stories

39:06throughout my appearances on the show in terms of people with no discipline, you know, you remember? We talked about Lawrence Phillips, you know, people like that, you know, so I don't think, and then besides that, we don't know the specifics of the offenses or grievances. We don't know. They just simply say that he violated team rules. We don't know specifically what that entails. So I would give him the benefit of the doubt in that regard. Okay, so they make the tournament for the first time in 1979 on the day of Brown. Okay, so things are starting to really look up at Ben Rouge after a few years of building up, building up. 1980, they had to say in carbon copy record in the SEC of 14 and four in the SEC, but also they improved by three games, going 26 and six. Rudy McLean returns, plays the entire season. McLean and Scales turn out to be the best forward combination in the country.

40:10McLean fifth, it was named first team all SEC, 18 points per game, Scales, second team all SEC, it's 16 points per game. Both finish second in the SEC, they won the SEC tournament for the first and only time in LSU's basketball history. They reached the regional final and again, lost to the eventual champion Louisville with Denny Crumb and Darrell Griffith and Lancaster Gordon and Nat Gorp. Ethan Martin was also at guard who was really performed, who's really started to perform and toward the end of that year was named second team all SEC. That was set to stage for the next year, but let's talk about this team here, 1980, 26 and six, 14 and four in the Southeastern Conference. And they win the conference tournament for the only time in their history. Hoopin, did it done. Hoopin, man, because one of my favorite players,

41:10he, you know, I, you know, I know about Rudy McLean, I know him predominantly post LSU basketball career because you don't like a lot of times, I guess, due to his presence. And once again, at the outset, I mentioned like a lot of these guys were larger than life and they were quite impressionable, especially on us. We were kids at the time, you know, he used to be on a variety of, you know, commercial selling different things and all of that. But Ethan Martin, man, he was a hooper. You know, he was a serious hooper. They were a very good team, but, you know, the any crumb, Dr. Duck and Stein, they are griffin'. Yeah. That's a very difficult combination to overcome. And they just, they just couldn't overcome that. And even though, you know, very good team, just, I guess, just not good enough. And that marked their third year in a row, losing to the eventual champion, which has to be frustrating because if you can compete

42:11with them, you're right there, but then you just, that little extra, that you need to kind of get over to home, they just were not able to summon that. Yeah. You know, if I'm not mistaken, either my first season or second season of the podcast, I did a whole episode of the 1980 Final Four, you know, which was Louisville winning their first ever national championship, you know, with Denny Crumb and Darryl Griffith and stuff, you know, winning it in Indianapolis. But yeah, LSU, again, now will they be able to make that next step? You know, they made it to the 316 in the 1979. They make it to the regional final in 1980, one step away from the Final Four. Will they make that next step in 1981? And the answer to that question is, yes. 1981, which is the winning-ish year in LSU basketball history, 31 and five,

43:1217 and one in the SEC. They only, they missed the perfect season by losing to Kentucky at Rappereena late in the season. They won the regular season championship in the SEC, obviously, reached the Final Four only for the second time in history, the only other time, 1953. First day of the first Final Four in the Dale Brown era, and the only loss like I mentioned in conference was Kentucky at Rappereena. The accolades were four and plenty for LSU in 1981. Rudy McLean, first team All-American. I'm sorry, second team All-American, first team All-SEC. Ethan Martin, the baller that you just said, 12 points per game, first team All-SEC. Howard Carter, another... I see! Howard Carter, 16 points, second team All-SEC.

44:12That guy was amazing. That guy was a straight baller, Howard Martin for LSU. And of course, Leonard Mitchell, the one you talked about, 11 points per game in 1981. This team was loaded with players, loaded with ballers. I see, man. I see you used to be balling, man. Like Richard Bay, 17 and one, but just a little further deep dive on that. They won 26 straight games, including the first 17 SEC games. So that loss in Rappereena, they were looking to run the table for the season. But that was when... I think Kentucky, I know that was Joe B Hall. Joe B Hall was the coach. And that's when they had... I think Kyle Macy, you know, Kyle... Kyle Macy was Sam Blueey on that team, too. 81? Probably so, because he got out of there in 1984.

45:14So he probably was, you know? Yeah, he probably was like... He probably was. I remember Kyle Macy, because I remember... Yeah, Kyle Macy for sure was on that team. Kyle Macy, yeah. The battles he and Ethan Martin used to have, man. They don't need to be some major league battles. And then, you know, Kyle Macy, he went on to have a very, very solid career running to point for the Phoenix Suns throughout the 80s and all of that. So they did that. And as you mentioned, the individual accomplishment as well as that, that then they had a little home cooking because they went through the tournament. I think I took a regional and it's no better thing than having to lead eight in your backyard, basically. Yeah, that's right. On a super dome and they beat Wichita State, the shockers. They beat them. And they lived up to their name in that tournament because they upset a couple of people just to get to the regional final. That year, I mean, I don't know... If people remember this,

46:15but LSU had a first round buy and that that back when team got buys in the NCAA tournament, they had a first round buy, second round LSU beat Lamar coached by the great Billy Tubbs who would later lead Oklahoma to the final four, beat them 100 to 78. And in the regional semi-final, LSU beat Arkansas 72 to 56. You know, to set up the regional final in the super dome against the Wichita State shockers who up and tell a couple of years ago, I only think I knew about Wichita State with their baseball team because you know I'm a big college baseball guy. Yes, sir. And I think of Wichita State, I think of Gene Stevenson, the legendary coach over there, but they had a really decent basketball team there. They ended up, which LSU beat in Wichita State 96 to 85, in the super dome. And they advanced to the final four for the first time since 1953 in Philly.

47:20Question for you before you get rolling, right? Uh-huh. That game that they beat Arkansas. Right? Well, Sydney Monk Reef in town at the time. I'm trying to. I think he was. I really think Sydney Monk Reef was on that team, because then Arkansas doing that, I think either that tournament or the year before, it was like him. Either he had a shot from mid court shot against Texas. I want to say. Yes. Now look at these ballers. They also had, man. Darryl Walker. Yeah. Scott Hastings. Yes. Now Scott, he was just known for laying wood in the throat. Right. You can put it in the holy college, man. Yeah. Yeah. These, these where the days when they were, they were good, man. These, these players that they remember they had, uh, uh, old play one of my favorite players, who was a, who was an assistant coach.

48:20For um, team years under their brown, the old bullet Johnny Jones. Johnny Jones, yeah. No bullet, but he got. Cause he, he coming in, he pushed that ball. Man, no bullet Johnny Jones, man. There's was some major league ballers that you say that they, they reached the final four, but unfortunately a caveat, casualty as a result of winning that game, McLean got dinged up in that wing. So they went to the, you know, into the final four, perhaps a little bit lower, not quite a hundred percent. That's right. I mean, I was just about to get to that really McLean gets hurt, gets a little bit dinged up. He does play in the national semi-final against Indiana. He does play, but he's not at a hundred percent and is evident. LSU gets off to a really good start in this game against Indiana. However, in the second half,

49:21Indiana outscores LSU 40 to 19. They go an eight-minute stretch from the end of the first half and a good end, like the first seven minutes of the second half without scoring a point. And it just could not get the ball in the basket. It wasn't like the Hoosiers for playing just great defense. LSU just took a lot of bad shots. You know, I went back in preparation for this game. I went back in watch that game. And LSU just took a lot of bad shots, took a lot of rush shots. They just got so impatient offensively. It ended up losing 67 to 49. But believe it or not, they weren't done. They do have one more game to play. Because this was the last year of the consolation game that for third place. Oh, man. And their opponents in that game, Ralph Samson and Virginia.

50:25Okay, that's what I'm interested in. You know, they were loosed of Virginia in the third place game, which would be the last time the NCAA would have a third place game. So they discontinued it. But here's a little question for you. Did you know the championship game was nearly canceled? Do you know why? Reagan got shot. Exactly. Yeah. President Reagan got shot at the afternoon before the finals. And he talked about canceling it. You know, because a lot of people weren't going to pay. But Reagan was like, no, the game need to be played. Go and play the game. Get your mind off of this. And so the end of the playing, Isaiah Thomas had a great game. Final four MVP, Indiana wins the second national championship in five years. You know, Bobby Knight wins another championship. You know, I guess you once again got out of the tournament

51:25by the eventual national champion. Okay. They were really close. Just two questions for you. You say you went back and revisited. First had Rudy Maclin been 100%. This was a little bit before my time. But I remember how I see Howard Carter, my brother. Yeah, love him. And all that. I remember him. And he'd been 100% with that had a material effect on the results. I don't think it would have been. I don't think it would have been because Rudy Maclin did gut it out. But a lot of it was just that execution by LSU. So he didn't pull the Danny and Thomas in on you. No. I'm trying to get that. Get at you for which to me last. You know, no. You know, that I agree with you on, but you know, it wasn't. No, I think it was just a lot of bad execution. Indiana made a run toward the end of the first half. LSU tried to counter that and kind of got out of their game.

52:28It fed right into what Indiana was trying to do with trying to speed up the game. Was trying to speed them up offensively. Okay, which seems counterintuitive because of the way LSU played. But it tried to speed them up offensively. They get them out of their own rhythm. And they just hoist it up like really bad shots as well as just. You know. Had. And just had just an awful shooting night. They picked the worst possible time to have their worst shooting night of the year. You know, it's the worst time, man. And second question and then a clarifying question. Well, I asked the clear. Well, I asked the second question first, then the clarifying question. Well, in terms of. Okay, third place games, consolation games. You've known me for 29 years. Can we gain friends in 1997? So you know me well enough to know how I would feel about a third place game. You wouldn't play. Of course not. You know what?

53:28What about you? What I play? Yeah, if this was my last game. Playing in college, I probably would play for third place. Why not? Why not? I guess that's just that's just me. Why not? You know. It's it. I know it's for nothing. You know, and I know, but it just, but if I was, if I was a junior knowing I was coming back the next year, I probably wouldn't. You know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. But if this was my last game, my last collegiate game, I would play. You know, that makes sense. Honestly, when you explain it that way, it make, it makes sense. If I had a chance to go pro, okay, I would be hesitant to playing. I would still want to play, but I would be more, I'd be hesitant. If I knew I wasn't going pro, and this was my last game, I would play. You mean now by pro, you mean NBA? NBA. Or overseas. NBA. Okay.

54:28If I was, if I was, I would be more hesitant if I'm playing over, if I was playing in the NBA. If I was going overseas to play, I would still play. Okay. Got you. NBA. I would be a little more hesitant, especially during that time. Now, okay, got it now onto my clarifying question, because we spoke about 1980 a minute ago. And if I recall correctly, what's in 1980 when, um, the any crumb and their Griffin won the title. Yes. Well, John Wooden's last team with Kiki van the way, right? No. Wooden had retired in 75. That was Larry Brown. Larry Brown was the coach of UCLA. I know I got the Kiki van the way part. Yeah. Yeah. Kiki van the way was was on UCLA in 1980. Ball, by the way. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That was the Kiki van the way team coached by Larry Brown. Okay. Got it. Got it. Thanks for clarifying. Okay. 82-1985.

55:28How to quarter? And linear Mitchell is still there. Uh, but they miss the tournament. The NCAA tournament 82 and 83. 82 to go 14 and 14. 83 to go 19 and 13. Both sees as they reached the n itt. But they both losing a first round. But in 1984, they add a few guys. That would become the backbone of the team that we would come to come from. come to come to know and love in South Louisiana for the next number of years. First guy, one of your personal favorites, Iceman Reynolds. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Iceman Reynolds. He also got Derek Taylor, the Keta Wilson, Don Redden, and John Williams, not the composer, John Williams, the ball of a male A. And this will become the backbone of the next few years for LSU. That will see one of their most beloved teams to ever grace the campus of South Dan Rouge. 1984 to

56:35go 18 and 11. They get back to the tournament, but they lose in the first round the upset by all teams dating. Who's the number 10 seed? Okay? 1985. They improved by a game to go 19 and 10. They'd lose to a young David Robinson and Navy. Who's the 13 seed? They lose to them. They actually get blown out. 78 to 55 in Dayton. So from 1982 to 1985, there's not really much to speak of, but you could tell that they're making strides to make a return trip to that and make a return trip not only to the final four, but to become back into national prominence, especially at a time in 1985 when college basketball is really becoming big business and big box office in America. Yes, sir. And these are some some good years. And like you mentioned, some bothers because I remember all

57:38of the battles. You remember, because you know, as you mentioned before, O'Caugh have got before SEC LSU basketball didn't get a lot of national coverage, but that's okay. Because remember, you remember old Jefferson pilot sports. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I forget to play by play man. Was it Tim Brando? Was it Tim Brando? It was a play by play man in the color time commentator. Larry Connelly. No, it's Joe Dean. It was Joe Dean. That's right. You know, you know, when they shoot that ball, you know, Nikita Wilson hit that hit that turn around. Oh, Joe Dean saying who would eventually become LSU's athletic director. He's a old Nikita Wilson playing a little string music right now. Oh, that brings back memories. Oh, my God. That brings back memories. Iceman their tell of man. He's good player, but was funny from the top of the key. Yeah. I already talked about Nikita Wilson that that goal turned around. And then my main man, the late great I cried when he died.

58:43Don red man. Yeah, Paula. He'd give you everything he got. And then bringing up the real. Oh, you got to say his name right. Oh, John, he wasn't known as hot plate yet, but John hot plate. Well, you know, I mean, you tell me when you said Tim Brando and Joe Dean doing LSU games on television. Oh, man, for Jefferson pilot sports. I mean, for those of you who don't know, Jefferson pilot sports was the ESPN of the South. They would do the their do the SEC football games. They would do the SEC basketball games. I mean, I tell you, it was some of the best times, you know, was there. I'm not necessarily remember was golden flake potato chips, one of their lead sponsors. Yes, they were. So it's still to me, the best potato chips on planet earth. They still have golden flake. Because you know, I mean, I know you're up there in Maryland. I they probably don't go that far, but here in

59:46Georgia, they're all over the place. Golden, especially just I love the sweet heat barbecue. Potato chips from golden flake. Oh, the sweet heat barbecue. Oh, it's so good. Man, I used to love to get the nachos. The nachos. And then you open the bag. I get a whole bottle of hot sauce, dump the hot sauce in there. Then grab the bag and shake it up. Oh, yeah, that's how you do that. That's right. You eat it. And then just another caveat that has nothing to do with these people. Man, not only don't they have golden flake up here. Man, these clowns don't even have blue bill ice cream up here, man. Oh, what a shame. What a shame. I got to order it. I have the time. Man, if I wanted, unless I go back home, blue bill ice cream. Oh, my God. People look at me like I'm crazy. And I'm like, for you, they're like bored. It's the best. I'm like, man, they're not seeing blue bill. But none of this, none of this, man, onto the onto the Tigers band. The foundation was sent. Sound foundation was sent for the impending up swing. Take us away, brother.

1:00:491986, perhaps the most memorable season in program history. But it didn't start off well for the Tigers at all. The Iceman Reynolds decided to go pro. Kidney in the day year, Tito Hartford, the aforementioned Tito Hartford, the father of NBA store, our Hartford was kicked off the team. Zoran Giovanna, Vich, injured his knee, the center. The key to Wilson was academically ineligible. And the top things off, the LSU Tigers was infected with a chicken pot epidemic with sidelined a number of people doing the stretch run of the season. They started off 14 and 0 despite all of that. But when the chicken pots hit, they finished a poetry 22 and 11. So they were made so they still had enough juice to make it into the tournament. Because for the most part, they reached the semi-finals of

1:01:54the SEC tournament ended up losing to Kentucky by three. Okay. So despite all of that, they finished it finished in the semi-finals of the SEC tournament. Okay. So they were granted an 11th seed. And a lot of people doing that time were upset that LSU was given a birth despite of all of their despite of everything that happened and despite of them struggling doing the late part of the season. LSUs that year would have been considered what you would call in today's parlance a bubble team. And they were pretty much one of those last team in first team out type of things. And it was akin to and to compare it. I know it's cross sports, but it's a lot like what would happen to LSU in 1986 is parallel to what happened to the University of Miami's football team in the college playoffs this year. They got in and a lot of people got upset because they got in.

1:03:01But once they got in, they took full advantage of it and pretty much ran the table all the way in LSUs case, ran it all the way to the final four, which no one expected, especially the fact of the loaded bracket that they ran. Because let me tell you something, the bracket that they were in was some real heavy weights in that bracket. So the committee let them in, but they weren't doing them any favors. Correct. They stacked the deck against the man and they just, and like you mentioned, out of all the LSU basketball teams, this is by far my favorite team, man. And a lot of people it is. For a lot of people it is. Because as I've mentioned before, it was a lot of things like a lot of life parallels that this team had, you know, overcoming, overcoming adversity, you know, taking the most of a, taking the most of an opportunity, not worrying about what

1:04:02naysayers have, having to say, proving your things, sounds like those are like things that you can apply to life, right? Right. So then just a lot. And then as I mentioned before, like these extremities, you know, it's hard to get people to accept certain roles when the talent level is at a certain level. But when it's not, it's more, it's more easier as evidence by one of my favorite all time tigers shooting guard Ricky Blanton, you know, when they, when they had all of the injuries and they didn't have a center because Horford was kicked off. Javanna Vitch was blew his knee out. Nikita Wilson wasn't there. You know, he had to move the center at a Paltry 6-7, but didn't complain and, you know, made the most of it. Yeah, I was about to bring up Ricky Blanton is one of the two factors that led to their run in the, in the tournament. Ricky Blanton, who became the heart of that front, the heart of that team, the emotional heart of that team, who was there. And

1:05:06also the implement, the implementation of one of the best known tactics devised by Dale Brown, the infamous freak defense. Now, in the parlance of today, it would probably go with the less or more politically correct name as maybe a hybrid defense, but it was a freak defense. So basically what it was, not correct me if I'm wrong, Chuck, the freak defense is essentially has characteristics of both man-to-man and zone, right? Yes. The zone basically you have, the two types of zone LHU ran at the time was a boxing one or a triangle and two. And they kind of meshed together. It had some components of band-a-man, but some components of zone. And it was hard for a point to come up the floor. It was hard to decipher what defense that they're in. And it kind of

1:06:12disrupted the team's offensive flow because it was essentially what it was. It was a freak defense. It was like, it wasn't like a junk defense, but it was very effective in slowing the game down and causing disruptions on the opposing offensive flow. Yes. And I also think that the freak defense sort of took a life of his own if you went out opponent. Like, you know, sometimes people will show you or wrinkle like in boxing a lot of times. You know, people like Floyd Maywater would have showed the role. That's a component of his defense. He doesn't exclusively do that, but sometimes people can make something more than it is. And I think in a lot of these games, they would just, because you know, it's all in the media, the freak defense, the freak defense, the opponents, especially with the short turn-arounds of the tournament, they would just become so preoccupied with that because you remember the freak also, sometimes he'll go straight man-to-man out of it. Sometimes he'll play like a little soft match-up zone out of it,

1:07:14especially if the team wasn't particularly a strong outside shooting team. So I think a lot of teams, because those were the 45 second shot clock days, they would waste the first 25 seconds trying to diagnose what they're doing instead of running their stuff. And then next thing you know, you're in a rush to get a shot. You're taking bad shots. And to your point, since you're waiting so late in the clock to get started, you're slowing the game all the way down, which aids LSU from that standpoint, because due to all of the injuries and the lack of talent, they were only, their rotation was maybe seven. At the time, they were not playing a lot of guys. So that was helping them keep them fresh and all of that. But it was a great run. And then you could take away here, but it was also another controversial thing, because even though they were at the 11th seed going into the tournament, the first two rounds, the site was at the assembly center on

1:08:18LSU's campus. So they had a home game for the first two rounds. And that tends to everybody out. I don't think that's ever happened since. In fact, I was just about to say that the next year, they disallowed it. The very next year, the NCAA passed the rule saying that teams cannot play tournament games on their home floor. Now, we're going to get into the situation later, which LSU had to deal with the reverse of that. But that year, LSU, the first two games of the tournament was in Bad Rouge at the assembly center, which was crazy. And in plus to your point about the free defense, this was the time period in college basketball, where coaches had different sort of gimmicky type defenses and offenses, because you remember, Temple had the famous matchup

1:09:21zone. Yes, sir. You know, um, UNLV had the Amoeba defense. Yes. Pete Carrill at Princeton had the Princeton offense, which was very prevalent and nearly took down Georgetown in the late 80s. So each one of these coaches has a little bit of a gimmick with them. You don't really, you really don't see that anymore. No more Richardson later on with the hell. Yes, that 40 minutes of hell, you know, with the pressure defense. I mean, you don't see that anymore, that at this time period, coaches was a little was more bigger than life than what they are now. You know, certain coaches was basically the personifications of their programs, you know, in college basketball. This is the golden age of basketball when he came down to that, and you really don't see that anymore. It was just tremendous. And it was just a variety of factors, I think, um, because I think the coaches were larger than life to a degree, but I think also we

1:10:26were kids, so we were at the most impressionable. And, um, you know, it was the 80s where pretty much the expansion of cable movies, hip hop, um, rock and especially, especially pop and rock and roll in the beginning of the music video. Anything went, man, because I remember the song, what is it, the group? You are an obsession. You're my obsession. Yes, it is. You won't be too busy. That's it. Yeah. That song would never get played on the radio now. Or no, if you want to ride, don't ride the right horse. You remember on the radio, if you want to be rich, then you got to be a, you know, yeah, basketball was the same. It was every year, it seemed like due to TV, they were breaking new frontier. They were making new stars. You remember the big he's had became stars. Then, you know, then you started seeing Bobby Knight and Jean Katie. They both were just hell of animated and then these gimmicks with the LSU Freak defense and, um,

1:11:31they're brown with his charisma. So the tournament was really becoming what we eventually became known as the tournament. Even though they always had a tournament, this was the beginning of kind of, this was the beginning of truly March Madness, right? Yes. This was the beginning before it was just the NCAA tournament. This is when the inception kind of March Madness at this time. Right. And LSU that year, 1986 made March Mad because first round at the assembly center, they beat Purdue 94 to 87 in double over time. Okay. Round two and perhaps the greatest shot in the history of the assembly center. Again, number three seed Memphis State. Anthony Wilson hits the shot at the buzzer to survive Memphis State 83 to 81, a little 10 foot jump shot off of an offensive rebound,

1:12:34put back, gives the Tigers a win and to advance to the speed 16, where they would have to travel to Atlanta to face of all team Bobby Krimmers and Georgia Tech in Atlanta. Now, remember I said that LSU would have to face something in reverse. They would because they would have to face Georgia Tech in his in their home city of Atlanta, not at Alexander Memorial Coliseum, but the game would be in the Omni, which if you know Atlanta, where I live, is literally a 10-minute walk somewhere from Alexander Coliseum to where the Omni was, because it's been torn down by now to make room for Phillips Arena. But it's literally a 10-minute walk from Alexander Coliseum to the Omni. So it's essentially not necessarily playing or Georgia Tech's home state or home floor, but it's damn close. And there's a lot of Atlantis that was at that game. Correct. And I mean, it was the house that, it was the house that Dominique Rick Flatt built, the

1:13:38American Dream, Dusty Rolls, the young stand built. That's the house that they built. But then going back to Memphis State game, one of my favorite games, remember they had Andre Turner and they had William Buffard. They had made the final four with the three big East teams in St. John's, Villanovian, Georgetown, the year before. But then, you know, so they thought they were three seed. They thought that they would beat them easily, but you know, the game was tied. They shot the ball. LSU took a shot, missed it. William Buffard, I don't know what the hell he was doing. He had the ball in his hand, somehow he lost it, and he was a mad scrambles for the ball on the floor. And Anthony Wilson picked it up and just shot it from like 10 feet in bank that in at the gun. And the Memphis State coach was so pissed, because they're already mad, because they're basically playing a road game. He badly tapped their brown hand and bought it to shake it. Because what? Keep walking while you're talking, brother. Yeah, I'm going to Atlanta. Keep walking while you're talking, man. You know, so yeah, then that's that's the stage for what, the sweet

1:14:4316 battle against, as you mentioned, Georgia Tech. They, you know, they two seeded. How you like these names? More price. John Sally. Tom Hammons. Bruce Darrym. You know, how you like those coached by Bobby Kremens? You, you would like your chances, but take it away, brother. I mean, again, I sat back and watched this game in preparation for this. In the beginning of the game, Bobby Kremens was always known as a running gun type of coach. He was always known for that, right? LSU, with the freak defense, slowed the game down and kept the game close. Okay. And more price did the best that he could do. He was the beginning of what Georgia Tech became point guard university. He was the start of that. Okay. And if, but unfortunately, John, they could at the beginning, they couldn't stop John Sally down low. They couldn't,

1:15:47but for some reason, Bobby Kremens went away from it. Okay, which gave LSU his opening. Okay. And then from that point on, LSU kept not going to wake up, not going to the way got to lead and they spent ended up winning 70 to 64, beating a number two C. So if you're keeping score at home, they beat number three Memphis State, they beat number two C, Georgia Tech, literally in their backyard. And so now the Sunday afternoon championship, regional championship game in Atlanta against Kenny Skywalker and King Kentucky for the right to advance to Dallas in the final four. Yes, sir. Just balled in, man. And it was, it was a great game, sent the stage for it at battle, but that Georgia Tech game was great. But I just wanted to give some kudos, man. They only had, at least you only had 70 points, right? In that ball game. 50 of them came from Derek Teller

1:16:54in the late great dawn, written, man. Yes. And then you get Anthony Wilson with the time to shoot known the board. And then you look at Ricky Blatton, 34 minutes, two out of three, three, four rebounds, two assists, two steals, four points. But man, he was just in there. Now kind of playing basketball, like football in terms of just imposing this wheel, because you remember, you talked about the fast Sally start. And then it's just like just, you know, keeping possessions alive, not necessarily getting the rebound, but keeping the ball alive to get the get the possession. Just he and they just they just they basically outwilled them and they they took it from them. They took it from fan square. So they advance to the regional finals that Sunday afternoon. They played top seed in Kentucky. They've already been in the number three seed. They've already beaten the number two seed. Now they're facing the number one seed. Kentucky, Kenny Skywalker coached by Eddie

1:17:54Sutton. Again, like I said, one of the greatest coaches in the history college basketball to never win a national championship. The others, I consider great like that. Of course, they're brown, but Eddie Sutton, Ray Meyer, Lefty, Drezel, Guy Lewis, and Lou Cornaseca, all in coaches that least should have had at least one championship, you know, but for situations beyond their control, it's sometimes worth their control. They just couldn't get it done. Anyway, second final four that LSU was on had reached on the head coach, Dale Brown. There were the first 11 seed to reach the final four. And they did this, you know, by beating Kentucky, by two points. Okay. And it was a defensive slugfest. Okay, for them that whole game was a defensive slugfest, but in LSU got it done. Key shots down the stretch. Key shots down the stretch by Nikita Wilson and shut down Kenny

1:19:00Walker, which is one of the top college players of the year, that year. So LSU makes it again to the final four by a slim two point win. But most of it was basically their defense holding down Kenny Walker. Yes. And they just, and I, and I vividly recall that they were supremely confident going into the game because you remember, Kentucky was 31 and three. They had already beaten their, Derek McKeebug Johnson and Alabama four times because they had eliminated them earlier in the tournament, but beat them twice in the two regular season meetings as well as the SEC tournament. SEC tournament, they had beaten LSU, three previous times, two regular season meetings as well as the conference tournament. But they were supremely confident referring to LSU because it was nipping Tuck all three times. The second game of which in the regular season at LSU, oh Roger Harden, but that's the name. He hit a buzz if you remember, LSU was down to

1:20:07their telepool from like 18, bang, the title game with five seconds left and Roger Harden ran the length of the court and pulled from the top of the key at the gun bang game over they win. And then he sort of did the same thing. He hit a late shot in that SEC tournament game that proved to be the difference. So LSU was supremely confident going into the game because they knew they could play with them because they went nipping Tuck with them three times. But this time, to your point, they kind of is crazy. I said, you shut, you slowed Kenny Walker down. The brother was eight of 11 for 20 points. But hey, man, you got to take what you could get. And they just, they just managed to, they just, they just managed to like kind of squeak by with a well balanced effort and to your point of defensive, defensive struggle. And they kind of made the game ugly, which was imperative for them to do in order to, in order to advance, which they managed to do. Yes. So they advanced to the final four. This time is in Dallas. Second final four in the

1:21:07Dale Brown, first 11 seats to reach the final four. And they beat the top three C's in their region to get there. Something that no team has ever done since to beat the top three C's to get to the final four. But of course, continuing the theme, losing to the eventual national champion, this time, losing to never nervous, Purvis Ellison and Louisville 88 to 77 in Dallas. Boom. That's all. Terrific. Ellison. Is he perhaps the worst number one overall peak of all times? He might be. He's up there. He's up there with him. And maybe, maybe Kwame Brown. No, Anthony Bennett with the Cleveland. Michael Oliver Candy. Yeah. But they just, you know, you remember, I remember that Louisville team being extremely, um, hilarious. The best, I don't know if we thought the best player on that team was not Purvis Ellison, but Mill Wagner. Mill Wagner was a baller. He had a 16 for 22 points. But you remember, he was

1:22:12a major league problem, but he had blown his knee out. Yeah. And then came back. He was still good, but he wasn't great after that. But you remember Billy Thompson number 55. He played with the Lakers a little bit on the famous Nolook Magic. Yeah. Do it against Fat Leaver, the Nuggets. Yeah. Billy Thompson when he blabbed on the Nuggets. But um, 10, 11, 22 points. But it just seemed like, Louisville shot 56% from the field for the game compared to only 45% for LSU. And that was pretty much the, um, difference in the game. They just couldn't complete defensive possessions and stop them. And so, um, Louisville advances. And then, as we all know, you know, they played Duke Bells, Bells, they're merchants of Duke that year too. Right. When first time they made the final four with Johnny Dawkins. And, um, but they couldn't stop Purvis Ellison. He kind of took over the championship game. Yeah. He went, you know, he went nuts in a second half against Duke, you know,

1:23:16and that was time that, you know, the Johnny Dawkins, Tommy Amiker, uh, Jay Billis. Jay Billis. Yeah. Park Allery and those guys, they just couldn't handle Purvis inside. And he kind of, and he, he presided on the boards and presided on the scoreboard, as well. Exactly. Moving on 86, 87. And another great LSU team, 24 and 15, eight and 10 in conference, lose a record in conference. Okay. But still, you had to, the back ball still remain. Nikita Wilson returned. Yeah. But Nord Woodside, yet the emergence of Jose Vargas, Darryl Joe, and of course Ricky Blanton rounding out the group. Also on the team that I did not know, he didn't play much, but he became famous for LSU and another sport. We're talking about Ben McDonald, the pitcher that was the number one draft pick overall by the Orioles. I think in 1992. Yes, sir. He was on the team. I remember he, he was on the, I remember being McDonald and he's the way, he's the way to pass you a t-shirt

1:24:20right. And he just come in, laying, moving screens and lab, we eat each other now. I remember that. And also they had an, and also the return of Anthony Wilson. So you had, you had the backbone of that final four team, most of them returning. Okay. This year, once again, they're a 10 seed, they're not in the 11 seed, they moved up a seat to being a 10 seed. Okay. In the Midwest, in the SEC tournament, they reached a championship game, lost to Alabama. Okay. But they've reached a 10 seed in the tournament and they get off to this great start. They beat Georgia Tech, rematch from the year before, they beat Georgia Tech again, 85, 79. They beat the 25, they beat number two seed temple, 72 to 62. Now, who was on that team? Was that the um, that was 86. That wasn't Mark making yet. That's it. That wasn't Mark making yet. That was like

1:25:24Howell Evans. Yeah. Howell Evans and um, step-boy name. It wasn't Duane Cosswell. No, no, no. You'll definitely, but the most prominent player on that team was the point guard Howell Evans. Yeah. Okay. They beat them and then, you know, they also beat the Paul. The Paul. Yes, sir. They beat the Paul 63 to 58 to reach the regional final again in Cincinnati against Indiana. Okay. Now, they made a now went back and watch this game too. One of the things they kept mentioning was this. What it would be like if LSU won that game and played the final four, that year the final four was in New Orleans. Could you imagine that if LSU played the final four in 1987 and the final four that year was in New Orleans, what that scene would have been like. It would have been wild, but questioned for you because I distinctly remember in 87, I was in sixth grade.

1:26:28I was the year of the keep smart shot in the their home in this free throw, correct? Yes. Okay, so in the national semifinal that year, Indiana played, um, talk the shark, you and LV, you know, he's free to bank Jarve field is free to banks Jarve is, um, best night and, um, mark weight in those guys. Yeah. Yeah. What LSU been able to run with those guys? I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so because as good as LSU was, there wasn't as athletic as you and LV was and death has been you and LV calling card since Tark arrived in Vegas because you remember overall athleticism? Because you remember, Indiana had to beat them in an up and down game. They tried all they could to slow that game bound. They couldn't. They just said they just said the hell with it. We got to beat them playing their basketball and they, um, they managed to do it, um, fortunately, you know,

1:27:32under the tool it is, of one of the greatest coaches of all time who could never coach today, you know, do no father is on, but none other than the general Robert Montgomery night. Yeah, he would get fired in two weeks now. Because none of that would fly. You know, like with me, you know, I don't mind a little five-privileged soul coach. You grab me by the collar five, but if you say you're going to kick my A, well, let's go in the back room and see who come out. Let's see. Let's see. So Indiana, so they play Indiana in Cincinnati for the regional final. Nikita Wilson, 20 points. And this was probably like the precursor of what you may see for LSU for the next few years. With five minutes remaining, LSU had control of the game and a nine point lead. I remember. And they had literally had control of the game. But for situations beyond

1:28:33their control, 1981, we're revisited where they went cold from the field in the late parts, late part of the game. They just got ice cold Indiana ticket advantage. It came down to last second tip in by Rick Callaway to eliminate the Tigers with like like two seconds left in the game, which wasn't enough for any LSU to do anything. And Indiana ended up winning 77 to 76 and advancing to New Orleans. And it was one of the most disappointing losses in maybe in the history of the program because they had the game and they had they had pretty much their ticket punched for New Orleans. But they're shooting just got ice cold all of a sudden. Yes. And this was one of the probably one of the most heartbreaking losses because this is the game of two things happened. This is the game. Bobby Knight got pissed off. Yeah. You remember he slammed the phone on the scores table. Yeah. He not only didn't get through ejected

1:29:35but that would have been his second technicals. That would have been a technical or anything. Right. That should have been his tech because he got awarded a technical file like within the first I think maybe five, six minutes of the game. He got a tech for running because he called a time out and it ran out onto going to the court like almost to the other side of the court for where the bench was to argue with the referee. So they so they rang him up with a tech. Later on in the first half, he slams the phone. He's yelling at the side. You know, he got into it with the like the commissioner of the big 10 to right before half time and he never gave him a chance. They're brown too. They're brown. How almost had to get active. Yeah. There was a situation where they're brown. What they're going toe to toe with him. So it was just like it was like a lot of is very heated in the game and it got heated on the court at times between the two teams. You know, but you know, go ahead. I'll say but the make but the even make it even worse.

1:30:38This is the game went after they barely escaped. He gets in the press conference after the game and say with nine, with five to go, we were down nine. I'm like, man, we pretty much cooked. But then I looked up at the other branches of South, South, they are brown and say God, God done it. We got a shot and son of a gun if they didn't steal that game and it's just like it's like unless you just quit playing for some reason. And it's just like they tried to hold on and literally, they literally pissed the game away literally. You know, it was one of those situations looking back at it. It's like the last five minutes of the game is almost as if LSU was trying not to lose. Instead of trying to win. Correct. They're trying to invest not to lose the game. You know, and with Indiana and you got Robert Montgomery night on the other side line, you need to win the game. It's like it's like it's like it's like your NFL team and you look at the sidelines and you see Bill Belichack or Indy Reed. You got to win the game. You can't just sit down and try to run out

1:31:39the clock. No, you can't do that with those guys. And especially with an Indiana who eventually would go on, no one knew it at the time. Of course, but Indiana had more than a punches chance of winning the national championship in 87, which eventually did. Yes. Yes. And that was just a heartbreaking loss. And it's like, man, come on. You got Steve. Even though he's all he's all he's all American and Mr. Olympian and all that. You got Steve Alfred out there. You got to attack him every chance you get. You have to make him guard. You know, but they, you know, we just kind of they just kind of pissed it away that moment became too big for them. Okay. 1988, go through this real quick. 1988, they go 16 in 13, 10 in 8 in the SEC. They were a nice seed. Not much to speak of why they lost in the opening round of the tournament to Georgetown. Okay. But they would get their revenge against Georgetown in a game that is legendary in Louisiana. 1989 is the second part

1:32:47of the great Dale Brown story. Okay. He brings in this kid from from from go from Godport Mississippi. Yes. Go for it. From Godport, Mississippi named Chris Jackson. Now let me tell you something about Chris Jackson. Okay. If people, when I say this, the younger people that have never seen Chris Jackson, of course, everybody knows him, mock mood up through a ruff. When he was at LSU, he was literally a cross between Kyrie Irving and Steph Curry. That was him. Would you agree with that? Yes, sir. He was a cross between Kyrie Irving and Chris and and Steph Curry. That was Chris Jackson, along with Chris Jackson, Vernell Singleton, and even though he was in eligible place first year, Stanley Roberts, who become one half of what would later be known as the Twin Towers at LSU. The other half of the Twin Towers, we're going to

1:33:50mention a little bit later on. Jackson in 1989, all American, they have a rematch with Georgetown on January the 28th at the Super Dome, which at the time set an all time NCAA college basketball attendance record. They ended up beating Georgetown by two 82 to 80 in one of the best basketball days I ever seen. But they reached the tournament again as a 10 seed. Okay. And they end up losing to UTEP, led by the great Tim Hardaway and coach Don Haskins, 85 to 75 in Tucson. Yes, sir. What a year that was. And as I said earlier in the episode in Louisiana, we're football state. We'll watch basketball. We care about winning. But if you can,

1:34:51if you don't quite win it, but you can be entertaining as hell in the process, we'll come out and see it. And you know, LSU was always a fairly hot ticket at Baton Rouge at the time. But when Tritz Jackson stepped on campus, I still remember, because you know, this was back in the days just for context. I don't know how old a young a lot of people are. This is for context like like how now when a high school guy comes, you know, when he plays like you know what he looks like. They have all kind of high like clips on YouTube or social media. Back then, all you had to go on with Street and Smith's magazine. That was it. And word of mouth. And word of mouth. They would put they would have these things like Chris Jackson average, 35 in high school. You have no idea how he looks. You have no idea how he plays. Exactly. You don't lay eyes upon the man until he debuts in their first game on TV, which for me was against Florida, at Florida in Gamesville. And he

1:35:53put up 50 on norm slow and the Gators. And then during that year, he was just going party. And then within that year, one of the best probably best college basketball duel I have ever seen about life today. And that was in Oxford against against Ole Miss January 31st 1990. Over time, Ole Miss 79 LSU 77. Why Chris Jackson? He put up 55 and Ole Miss had a cat. Now how is this for a nickname? You know, there's a baller. Gerald, world class, glass. Yeah, 53, man. They were just going back and forth. And to tell you how much of a hoop foot they were, I know you remember this. We talked about Jefferson pilot at the time. Sometimes, for whatever reason, Jefferson pilot may not show the game. They may opt to show another game. So in those instances, a lot of times

1:36:54on the road, LSU, they would deploy out their own broadcasts to the game. I think it was the Channel 9 guy Steve Schneider and someone else. Yeah, I remember that, right? You remember, they used to have Tiger Vision select event. Yeah, you could pay $7. And get the game to come on. And my dad, Chris Jackson, had been hooping so much. My dad says, screw that. We ordering the game the night. And that's the game. He ordered on a Saturday night. He had the, you know, on the Saturday, he did it. No, they say this is a win. That could have swore that was on Saturday. But whatever, we ordered the game and we stayed up and watched that magnificent duel between the two of those guys. And like you said, he just had a magnificent freshman campaign and then, you know, ended with the duel between himself and the guy who we didn't know at the time would become, would take the world by storm. But the guy, Mr. YouTube to step himself to him hard away. We didn't know it at the time. And kind of like, man, that dude kind of nice. But then when he got to the go to stay

1:37:56warrior, then I got skills commercial for Nike. We're like, okay, that dude is a baller. Wonderful, wonderful duel where Chris Jackson came up short and the Tigers in the tournament going home in the first round. Now, let me ask you something about that Tiger Vision because I remember that and we never got Tiger Vision. But that was those games on tape delay over that line. No, it was live. Okay. You know, you know, they, they, they, they called it selective events. So sometimes, because you know, like a lot of times, like some of the LSU football road games would be on, like if it wasn't on the ESPN or anything like that. Right. A lot of the, but. So it's like an early type of on demand, pay-per-view type of thing. Basically, you're basically like the equivalent of a pay-per-view basketball game. That's exactly what it was. So they, they would, you know, like, I guess the local media, because I know Steve Schneider from, um, channel, channel nine, yeah, the nine WFB. He was the color man and I forget who was the play-by-play. They would send him there. You ordered a game. The game comes on TV live from whatever. And

1:39:00typically for the most part, he would be road conference games. Right. Yeah, because that game was an Oxford. They can't, they can't be with an Oxford, right. And, you know, he, he would just kill world-class glass with just killing Ricky Blanton, man. Just, you know, I mean, just, uh, just, just, uh, one of the best dudes I've ever seen in college. Now, with the, with the, Emergence of Prince Jackson and the emergence of, of, of Renelle Singleton, LSU would go into 1990 after number two ranked team in the country. Despite the fact losing early in the tournament, mostly because they had an addition to this Twin Towers thing that they have. And the other half of the Twin Towers joining Stanley Roberts was none other than Shaquille O'Neal. And they started the season at number two. Jackson that year in 1990, well, LSU that year goes 23 and nine in the regular season. Jackson is an all-American in his, for the second year in a row.

1:40:04They beat the eventual champion, UNLV. Did this game do in the regular season? They beat UNLV 107 to 105, who would eventually go on to win the national championship they year. They beat Texas 124 to 113. Now, these, these sound like NBA scores, but this is college. And this game here, I was at this game. I went to this game because I was such a fan of not LSU, but the team that they were playing. They beat, you and they beat Loyola Marymount 148 to 141. That was probably, I was winded after this game. It was so high scoring. You know, and one of the things that I remember through this game was that you, Loyola Marymount was running LSU so much that at the, the TV time out or something, Shaq was about to pass out. They ran Shaq so much. They were like, you were like, wait for the nail product, take me out, take me out. But they put up 148 points on Loyola Marymount.

1:41:10Okay. And Loyola Marymount scored 141. Okay. That was the heyday of the, you know, Paul West had grew up goal. Loyola Marymount Lions team would hang gathers in both Kimbo and Corey Gaines and that, and that group, purse, steamer and that group. And they also beaten Notre Dame. Once again, in the Super Dome again, they played Notre Dame 87 to 64. So they were winning games, but they were scoring a lot. But can it translate into the tournament? That was the big question because now you have a group that had a legitimate shot of winning the national championship with this line up. Chris Jackson, Stanley Robbins, Vernell Singleton, Shaquille O'Neal, Gert Hammock. You had ballers now. Wayne Sills. Wayne Sills. Money from the top of the key. Money. You know,

1:42:10but it didn't. So some reason it just didn't. They expected a big thing from LSU. Big things. However, they lose in a second round. They beat Villanova 70 to 63. They win that game, but they just didn't look right doing that game. I remember watching that game and Villanova didn't they didn't really know that Kerry Kittles at that time. No, that's a little early. Okay. Because Kerry Kittles, if I remember, he didn't appear into the mid 90s. That was probably. That's right. Because my high school lost the Kerry Kittles in St. Organ. I know. Raleigh Massimino was still the coach. I think they were just kind of coming back a little bit because you remember right after they beat Georgetown in 85, they had the whole Gary McClain thing. Yeah, that's right. Sting and all that then they were. They were. They're like also patient things and all that and I think they were just kind of coming back

1:43:13a little bit and and all the bad and that game. But before you get to that to the Georgia Tech game, it was just a great season because speaking like those two games to my point, you were like, they couldn't get it together. It was kind of what I alluded to earlier where I think they had such an embarrassment of riches that Dale Brown wasn't accustomed to that. That's about to ask. He wasn't accustomed. You know, and then oh, go ahead. No, I was about that. I was just going to say that he was one of those situations where it was like totally opposite for what he was used to in the 80s in that you had basically taking parts that did really fit a mesh together that wasn't really all that talented and getting the most out of them. The question now was, not that you got athletic and pure talent, can you lead them? You know, can you lead them over the top and that was becoming like one of Dale Brown's things that he had to answer to with the fact

1:44:19that he could take lesser talented teams and get the most out of them. But he couldn't take the overly talented teams to get them to where they needed to go. You know, and now's like the great paradox of his career. Correct, but I think it would have helped a whole lot if that previous season, because you remember the previous season, Chris came in as a true freshman. Yeah, so did Stanley Roberts, but he was ineligible due to the aforementioned position 48 rule. I think it would have had Stanley Roberts played that year. It would have helped a lot because it would have given he and Chris a chance to work together and get his feet under under him. Then now you add, Shaq, you already have an established center and you could kind of set your rotation from there. But without with that with the proper position 48 happening and Stanley coming back coinciding with the arrival of Shukil O'Neill, you remember they used to have the starting lineup. They started them both at the same time with Chris Jackson, where it's like, okay, it's not enough room for both

1:45:24of them out there. Can you maybe add like Steele Singleton, you had Howard Boudreau, you had um, cats like Wayne Sims. I thought that it would have been better. He probably, you know, more clearly defining the roles. Now with you had gotten Chris Jackson to take a back seat at that point, probably not, you know what I mean. But you could have staggered the minutes in a way. Don't play Shaq and Roberts together. Staggered the minutes. You know, play them both, you know, in certain situations, game situations, but don't start them at the same time because the kind of thing they need to offense and you basically cut down your, the area you wish to run your offense, you know, to compensate for that, you and I have to start running your offense near the mid-court line. Could there are two guys that are in there at the same time? Or even use another ball handler to move Chris over to the two. Yeah. Someone that can facilitate and kind of get everyone involved and kind of split the touches or whatever. Well, well, Chris is still going to get the line of

1:46:26share. But anyway, two of the greatest games I ever seen was that Nevada Laws Vegas game where, you know, them against Larry Johnson, Greg Anthony Anderson, Hunt, Stacey Augman. Then the very next week, the game you alluded to, I sat down and watched the late great-hank gathers, put up 48 while I'll be a young Shaq and a young standing Roberts manhandled both of them and en route the 48 points. And I mean, this was when college basketball was box office, man. Anyway, they limp to the tournament as you mentioned and then met on unceremonies in details, please. They lose the Georgia Tech 94 to 91. And this Georgia Tech team, once again, Bobby wrote another great Bobby Kremens team, Kenny Anderson, Dennis Scott, Malcolm Mackie, and Brian Oliver. I mean, again, and they would end up 1990 going to the final four. Leave the whip in three. Yep. They end up going to the final four ended up losing to Duke if I'm not mistaken in the

1:47:31national semi-final. No, they lost the UNLV in the national because that was the year they were up on UNLV at seven and a half. And then UNLV came out in the second half and just ran rough shot over them. And then that's the year when UNLV played Duke and beat them by 30 in the championship game. But then that's the year, because you remember Duke had been the self-refinder force hadn't even broken through yet. Then that's the following year when UNLV were undefeated and it meant Duke in the national semi-final. But this time Duke had Grant Hill in a final, they finally beat them and then beat Greg Ostehtag, Adonis Jordan, Rex Walters and Kansas to win their first title, first of many titles. Yeah. 1991, LSU goes 2010. Okay. 13 and 5 in the SEC. But Shaquille O'Neill, 27.6 points per game, national player of the year, first team All-American.

1:48:33Okay. Vernell Singleton, 15.2 points per game. Also adding to the attack, Gert Hammock, Mike Hanson and of course, Harold Boudreau, who pulled off the greatest in-game dug I ever saw that year. I attended when LSU played Alan Houston and Tennessee at the assembly center in, I think, February of 1991. I don't exactly remember the date. But Harold Boudreau gets a pass off of a rebob by Gert Hammock. Gert Hammock throws a long outlet pass to Harold Boudreau. He takes one step. Alan Houston's waiting for a bundle to basket. He jumps. Does the endgame 360 on Alan Houston and dunks it. Damn. I lost my mind. I was like, that is still the greatest in-game dug I ever saw live in person in my life, still to this day. Because I was about to challenge it with the Jerome Lane dunk, man. But that's a great dunk I ever saw live in person in real time.

1:49:42Because I was sitting right there on the baseline, FU was coming at me. Me and my dad and a couple of my friends went to that game. It was just so awesome to see that. Right quick, before I just entered it. Now, this time's back that we did last episode, right? Now, while all of this, we talked a lot about last week, every Johnson and Southern on the north side of town with the bluff. At the same time, all that was going on. This is what was going on at LSU on the south side of town all at the same time. Exactly right. Exactly right. I mean, me bad rules for the longer, for a very short time period. Just like in the early 2000s, when you had LSU and Southern winning national championship, LSU winning the national championship and Southern winning the Black College National Championship. This was sort of similar in 1991 when LSU was really good at basketball and so was Southern. Correct. You know, and this was like a hot bed of college basketball for a

1:50:45very short time in the red stick. You know, your Southern was good. LSU was good. This was some high times of basketball, not only in the state, because you also had ULF yet was really good at that time too. You know, even nickel state was making some noise. You know, so it was like a really, really good time for Hoops and in the pelican state at the time. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, it was. 1991, though, another early exit this time by Yukon, 79 to 62. They get blown out, but I think Shack got injured heading into this tournament. If I'm not mistaken, he didn't play much. He was injured, either in the SEC tournament or right, you know, or or doing the game against Connecticut, and they just couldn't recover. Wasn't that the year when Carlos Groves cheap shot at Shack and SEC tournament? Yeah. And they're brown. They're brown. That's right. Yeah. And he stole a lot of it in the middle of the game. He didn't. Well, I'm sorry, folks. Still means,

1:51:55still means a sucker punch, basically. Right. Well, now a sucker punch in the tradition of the term, they are brown punched and Quinn Groves was a sucker. So in that, because he Shack went up for a dunk and he just grabbed them by the waist from behind. Yeah, right. Here, remember, they're resulted in they are brown. They'll cheap shot and Shack so many times. He advised Shack to go pro before he got hurt because people was kind of maliciously trying to cheap shot him constantly. Right. But she did the following year, but in 1992, but again, the similar situation in 1992, losing a second round. This time to Indiana, you know, and a very interesting stat about Shack's tenure at LSU during that time, the Tigers had 172% of their games when Shack was there. And and they finished second in the SEC. They won one SEC title with Shack and finished second twice

1:52:57with Shack with Shack on the team. So this was again, another sustained level, sustained era of success for LSU. Unfortunately, not only no national championship, but no final four appearances. So now there's some rumblings going on in LSU and Louisiana. Like, okay, you've had all of these chances. You haven't been to the final four in five years now, five, six years now with better teams, but you just haven't been there. You're like, okay, what's going on? Okay. So and there was there was a lot of rumblings going on in the it along to buy you about LSU Tiger basketball. Now in his defense now, Dale Brown's defense, that is, whereas before we were talking about from the outset of the Southeastern Conference, that there were more of a, you know, kind of a side show type of deal. They were legit by now because you remember by the early 90s, you had LSU. You remember, Alabama had Hollywood,

1:54:01James Robinson, Robert Oory, and the trail Spreewill. You remember the battles day in LSU had LSU used to battle Arkansas. Arkansas was now in the Southeastern Conference, but this is when they had the Mayday connection, you know, the Mayberry Todd Day, Johnny Thurman, Oliver Miller, Nolan Richardson as the coach, you remember Alex Miller, he used to pull from from half court, you know, and then this is Rick Patino had kind of turned a time ahead and took it. This is when they had, um, forgetables when they had a small match burn, Ricky Farmer, um, you know, that group Sean was like Pell Free, you know, that group. So the SEC was no longer like the wasn't no longer could took everybody else. It has some real, you know, doing the time period, not only LSU had came up, but a lot of the schools in the SEC had came up, you know, Auburn,

1:55:06Auburn had gotten better. Um, Mississippi State, Mississippi State, Florida was still getting there, you know, was getting better. So, so while all of this was going on, the SEC was starting to catch up, and LSU was not able to get the recruits dead, or Dale Brown, I should say, was not getting the recruits that he would normally was getting due at that time period, 1993, 22 and 11 and 7, 97 and SEC. One of the thing you as you noticed about the SEC records is it's starting to be a little bit more 500-ish, you know, it's 500 and it's not because of lack of coaching and lack of talent is maybe the addition of talent and other schools that were starting to catch up to LSU. Also misfortune. Yes, remember starting like 93-94 around there, that's what they have. Now these the guys, we used to play against sometimes at the old armory, you know, you remember, we played

1:56:09like Clarence's and Sean Gibson, Andre Owen's. They all used to be in the armory all the time talking Brandon Titus, they all used to be in their talking, talking stuff, you know, I am, I'm out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, we, we, we, we want to see, we want to see, hell, I wasn't out there when you did it, bro, ball of top, let's get it. Exactly. But he had some misfortune at the time because you remember, he's golden goose, he's pinning hard away, he's chasing kids, they're really supposed to turn everything around. Randy Livingston. There you go. Randy Livingston. And by all accounts, he was a can't miss Perennial All-Star Hall of Fame NBA talent, NBA talent rather, and he blew his D out and he had committed the LSU and including Ronnie Henderson as well. And I think when Randy Livingston blew his D out, that just, that, that, that just did it. Once that happened, you know, you know, a lot of people wanted to compare. Now, what was I, I never think of this kid's name. The kid that went to LSU

1:57:12recently, that was a point guard from Australia. What was his name? And Simmons. A lot of people, and I call this, who blasphemy, that wanted to compare Ben Simmons to Randy Livingston? Not even close. It's not even close. I saw, I saw Randy Livingston in high school. Now, he, Randy Livingston, I swear, Randy Livingston was about the size of, like about six fours, like around the size of Russell Westbrook, their roles at his apex, with every bit of their athleticism both of them had. Perennial's even more, but he had a consistent jump shot. And even though he was tremendously athletic, could get his own shot at any time, he was a, he was probably Jason Kidd Esk in terms of elevating his teammates, because

1:58:20despite all of his immense talent, he was the past first point guard. Right. He could make all of his playoffs better. So the thing was, with Ronnie Henderson and some of the talent, and he came in, he'd have been able to elevate them, and they would have, you know, LSU would have been back on the map in terms of prominence, but then he blew his knee out and he came back, but he was still very good, but he was no longer special. I mean, yeah, I mean, I remember watching Randy Livingston and hear about how good Randy Livingston was. You know, and he was just such an incredible player. Um, I'm sitting here looking him up. Um, let's see. He's still managed a few years in the league. He played at um, he played at Newman's school, Newman's same high school as the Manning Brothers. He went to school there. Yep. Yeah. And we, you know, you know, the Manning Brothers, O'Deal Beckham, you know, is a door newman high school, the, the, the fee to school for Tulane, but I mean, I had her stories about him because my high

1:59:24school knew I bury a high was like one of the top high schools in the state, you know, was a basketball factory, you know, and we used to run into the door newman and Jesuit and St. Aug in the state playoffs every year and get blasted. You know, I mean, one year we played my, my junior year, we played, um, St. Aug in the state finals. Okay. And Carrie Kiddles was on the team and Carrie Kiddles came off the bench. Let me show you how good that team was. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You know, and they beat us by 40 in the state championship game. I've seen clips of this guy and I think I saw him because they played, um, who was it? I think they played Catholic one year. Yeah, Catholic and bad moves one year. And I saw he's, you know, a lot of times you see guys like you remember, like, you know, like certain players, you, like, you know, his reputation precedes him. Then when you see the guy, you're like, okay,

2:00:27you know, he's pretty good, but I don't see that. This dude, Randy Livingston, man, that the hype didn't do justice in terms of how cold that dude was. Right. That dude was cold, man. You know, the only other situation that I can remember with the hype was not enough hype was when I was a sports writer in Morgan City. And the Morgan City girls team went to the state championship game and played Capitol in 2001, 2002. Okay. And Capitol had this chick named Simone Augustus. I had never seen a girl, ball like that ever in life. Oh my god. There were certain times in that game. I thought she was going to dunk. I really did. I thought she told them. Oh my gosh. You know, she went on to LSU. Okay. Anyway, 93, they go 22 and

2:01:2811, 97 in the SEC, led by Gurd Hammock, Jamie Brandon, Hammock, 15.3 points per game, Jamie Brandon, 11.8 points per game. And Maurice Williamson, the son of Super Child Williamson, former star for the New Jersey Nets, 10.10.4 points per game. But they lose two cow in the first round on the last second shot, led by Jason Kidd. Okay. So here's the situation. Now, five straight 20 win seasons, you know, five straight 20 win seasons and but never rated back to the 316. Okay. So we just talked about the Randy Livingston in 94. They brought in Randy Livingston and Ronnie Henderson in 94. But from that point on, they just couldn't get back to the tournament. Okay. Randy Livingston had a myriad of injuries, mostly his knee. Okay. And the downfall really came

2:02:2996, 97 and the whole Lester Earl incident. And those of you who don't remember, Lester Earl was this high recruit that came to LSU and basically was paid off by a booster. Okay. To play for LSU, and now for the presence of time, I've remembered this because we was at Southern at this time. And you heard about Lester Earl all the time. In fact, he played a couple. I remember playing against him on campus. I was literally about to say. Yeah. You in the back and the girls, Jim on campus. Yeah. Yeah. But also we played against them a couple times because you remember, you probably don't remember guys to take you everywhere. There was a whirlwind. But you remember, we said, but no, I tear his elementary. Yeah. It's like downtown off of off of government. Not too far from Baton Rouge. I we all used to play there. He used to. Yeah. He and his brother. He

2:03:33and his brother, Lewis and they home the Cory Powell. They all went to Glen Oaks together. One of my cousins played with them too at the time and all that. So they used to be over there sometimes. So we we we cross paths with them a few times. Right. He was suspended for 11 games by LSU for accepting money supposedly from an assistant coach when it wasn't true. He's actually came from a booster, but Lester Earl ratted them out. Okay. Mostly being pressured by the NCAA to say that in which he was really lying. Okay. So he eventually transfer the Kansas and that right there pretty much fell the end of the Dale Brown era and unceremonious end to the Dale Brown era at LSU. Yeah. And you know how I feel about you know how I feel about that kind of stuff, man. Like, you know, like a lot of these times, like I remember a guy, you know, around the same time. I don't know if you remember guy that was my cousins running me.

2:04:37What's that boy named? Something cold. He played. He he the one that got Jim Harris done in at Georgia because he took all the benefits of dead out there's over with and he didn't go to the lead. Well, we didn't even have to go to class. They go, you enjoy the benefit, but then once it doesn't materialize for you, like you feel the shit of, then you snitch. Then you ride everybody out. You you ride everybody out out when you partook. Right. You know what I mean. So it's like, okay, like, you know, you know, and it's kind of similar here. Like, man, why are you going to, if you're going to partake, you know, I'm not here to say what right or wrong is. I'm just saying, but if I partook, I'm not going to get on my more high horse after the fact that then be like, well, what? You know, no, you take your lick like everyone else, man. So like you said, he kind of stitched and that just and then you mentioned that, you know, Dale Brown wasn't as successful anyway. So, you know, a lot of times you have these sorts of things when you win in going deep in the tournaments, making final fours, you're like, okay, these are transgressions that can be

2:05:40overlooked. But then when you're not as successful on the court is like, well, no, we can't overlook this. Right. So in closing of this part of the episode, if you had just succinct everything that Dale Brown means to the athletic program at LSU, how would you put that into words? How would you put the Dale Brown era at LSU into words if you could? Legendary, routine unprecedented heights because you got to think when you look back at, when you look back at it in retrospect, because you know, when we were experiencing it in real time, we were just kids. But when you look back at it in the retrospect, you know, LSU were, you know, the doogues, North Carolina's, the Georgetown's, the Syracuse's, LSU were was in that realm as far as like from a full file standpoint, you know, you know, and unprecedented success. And all of that,

2:06:43and I say, routine because he did it year after year for a time period and those have been heights that since he's been gone, they've only reached those heights once or twice. There's only been to the final four once since now's in 2006. In typical Dale Brown type of fashion, a team that had no business being in the final four making it. Of course. This is the big baby Davis era at LSU. Correct. There you have it. So and I say routine because they routinely were in the mix. And since it's the departure, you know, it's much lower profile, not only due to their last lack of success on the court, but that is also correlated with for the most part, the final four realization of unrealized potential in LSU football. You know, Louisiana for many decades was a hot bed of football talent just waiting to be kind of cultivated and starting with Nick

2:07:47saving. They've kind of been on that upward trajectory for the most part with some inconsistencies ever since. So I think between the ascension of the football and just the lack of basketball success. You know, what was once, you know, you remember you talked to LSU in the 80s, basketball was more noted than football. Now LSU basketball men's basketball ideas primarily resides in the shadows these days. Right. I mean, like, for example, like what you just said about the LSU football program that had, you know, that has pretty much taken off when Nick saving came in. You know, it has been pretty much been six, I mean, been the success ever since with a different, with a number of different coaches. You know, everybody from Mike Kelly to Ojorong to, you know, whoever, you know, they've always had success in football because football has always been the driving force for LSU for years. Okay. To top all of that off, LSU kind of succeeded the LSU football programs

2:08:53and succeeded them as well as the baseball program. Okay. Because prior to 1991, LSU was always on this upswing of talent, you know, as far as like getting to the, getting to the college world series, starting with the 91 team that won the national championship with the guys like Ben McDonald and Warren Morris and Jared Mitchell. Right. Exactly. And, you know, they had overshadowed LSU as far as historically being the bell cow of the LSU athletic program. But I wanted to at least give them their crudos and therefore I was doing doing the time period doing when you said it yourself, when we were out most impressionable, you know, with them having the success that they had in the 80s and early 90s with some of the greatest games that we've ever seen and that made us basketball fans. And a lot of that came watching Dale Brown and LSU at the assembly center on W.A.F.B.

2:09:58and Jefferson pilots sports, you know, which was always cruel, you know, and eating golden, and eating golden flake potato chips. You remember Tiger chips with old Jose Vagas from the Dominican Republic, Jose Vagas Tiger chips, you know, you know, you know, it was just like a lot of characters, a lot of larger than life characters and just a lot of larger than life games, um, player arcs, coach arcs, team arcs, program arcs. Yeah. And it was just larger than life at that time, man, you know. So, so with that, we're going to take a little short break and coming back, we're going to send a shot out, unfortunately, a melancholy shot out to one of the greatest basketball players to ever play in the state of Louisiana that a lot of people don't really know about. But his, his game was out of this world at a time where it needed to be, you know, and he put a little small school

2:11:00in Louisiana on the map in the early 1970s. We'll talk about him in a moment. You're listening to the historically speaking sports podcast here on the sports history network. And we're back here on the historic speaker's sports podcast to round out to wrap up this episode. Thanks once again for joining us here on this Sunday night. And thank you once again for joining us wherever you're getting this podcast. Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon. Wherever you

2:12:03may be checking us out. We're going to send a melancholy shot out to a Louisiana basketball legend who just recently passed away. A man by the name of the white bow Lamar from Columbus, Ohio, born April 7th, 1951. He was a two time consensus all American at the time, a school known as University of Southwest Louisiana, which of course you know now as Louisiana Lafayette. Let the nation is scoring in 1971 and 1972 season. Freshman of the year in the Gulf States conference which was the precursor of the Sunbelt averaging 22.8 points per game as a freshman. First team all American selection in 1973. Now, he was all American selection with these guys. Bill Walgum, David Thompson, and Ernie DeGregorio. Those were ballers to premium of the early 1970s.

2:13:07Avers 31.2 points per game scored 3493 points known for his long-range shooting finishes career and still the third highest scoring player in the history of college basketball. Jerry Tarcanian, the famous head coach of the UNLV running Rebels once said of him, Bo Lamar is the pure shooter I've ever seen. Doing his time at ULL or USL at the time, he had a record of 90 and 23 in four seasons. His last three seasons, the Cajuns, went 74 and 13. Only UCLA had a better record during that period. He was the third pick overall by the Detroit Pissons in the 1973 draft, but he was the number one overall pick by the ABA San Diego Conquista doors, which is one of the coolest teammates I've ever heard. In that year, he was named the ABA All-Ricky team.

2:14:16When I think of Bo Lamar and I've heard some clips of him playing, this guy was so electric and such a great shooter. For him, at the time, be the third all-time leading scorer in the history of college basketball. For a time, he was number two behind LSU's Pete Maravitch, which is insane. They missed each other by a couple of years in Louisiana, but at one time, you had Pete Maravitch and then right after that you had Bo Lamar, who was one of the great pure scorers in the history of college basketball. He is what I would call a professional score. Hooper. And his college co-set, it feels a three-point shot, them days. He had been good for 50. And then, you know me, I love a guy that I love two things about about about about a ball. I like a guy. He said, what did the guy say? He known for his long-range shot

2:15:20that some coaches said, dusted the rafters. You know, I love how they can shoot it on screen when they on TV. Then secondly, I saw a lot of his ABA highlights recently. He was a good jelly man, too, you know. I love a good jelly man, you know. Those of you who don't know is basically a finger roll. A jelly man, you know. Those of you who don't know the street ball jargon, a jelly man to somebody who could just lay it up with a finger roll and have the pretty finger roll like a George Garvin. And boy, was he like that as well. And just a pure shooter. My dad knew him. Okay, because he my dad went to UL and by the same time he did. And he was just such a, you know, just a great, great player. Still, I still would consider him the greatest player in the history of UL by far, you know. Even though you have had some success in the actually in the tournament in the late 80s, early 90s, they had some success in the tournament. In fact,

2:16:24one year, I think they beat Oklahoma in one in one round game and recently they made the the tournament in a couple of years. But, but who, but, but, but, but, but the player that really put the UL raging cages on the map, USL at the time, who put USL on the map. Now Louisiana left yet with the great ball of more. We wanted to give him a shot out. The recently, you know, the recently departed, you know, Baltimore, you know, me resting power and just just an outstanding, outstanding player. Great shout out, man. And just let your dear player, let your dear baller who left his mark on the world and will be sorely missed. Absolutely. And that will do it for this edition of the Historically Speakers Sports Podcast. And we'll be right back after this break to wrap things up here on the Forest History Network.

2:17:27Thank you once again for joining us here at the Historically Speakers Sports Podcast. This podcast comes to you as always from the Sports Wing of TN4 Enterprises, which is housed the Bill King Memorial Studio, which we are located in suburban Atlanta and the Shadow of Stone Mountain. Once again, don't forget to like and subscribe the show so you can get brand new episodes whenever they are released. And as always, please, please tell people about us. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your co-workers, tell your neighbors, hell, tell a passer by in the street if you have to if you think that they like sports history. And until next time, please be safe and we'll see you again next time. This podcast is part of the Sports History Network. Your headquarters for the Yesteryear of your favorite sport. You can learn more at sportshistorynetwork.com. Hey there, Sports History Fan. This is Arnie Chapman, aka the football history dude.

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