FX Unmasked

0:00This is the debrief podcast. A wig. I do a drawing of the wig rough idea. And then I try to find pictures that has got the same hair texture that I want in the wig, or the same type of braids that I want in the wig. I send it off to Sean the Lounge to see if they like the ideas. The wig that the queen is wearing in the presentation on Season 3, the white and the cream wig, that wig was also the same wig that we had in Season 2 for the presentation. So that white wig had like cocktail sticks in it to make it have that really sort of tight curl pattern. And I think that actually putting in those sticks took about two weeks, and then it took another week, I think, to style it. So the smaller curl pattern that you put in the wig, the longer it takes. And then the installation, how long does that typically take? It is quite quick. I reckon if it was panicky, she could now do it within half an hour.

1:07This is the debrief podcast. I was down a bit of a rabbit hole this weekend of old special effects, makeup, and hair, and prosthetics. It was after I saw this clip on social media. I came across it of Jim Carrey on the Graham Norton show. You're speaking about everything he did to survive that transformation into the Grinch. If you're freaking out and you start to spiral downward, turn the television on, change your pattern, have someone you know come up and smack you in the head, punch yourself in the leg, so it was fine. It was horrifying. I was just like, it's for the kids, it's for the kids, it's for the kids. How many months was that? I did the makeup 100 times. You know what got me through it? The Bee Gees. And I'm not kidding you, the only thing that worked in the makeup chair to become through the process was everything the Bee Gees had ever done. They just made me happy.

2:09They made it possible. There'd be no Grinch without them. I like the Bee Gees. You can see that. Yeah, have you stressed to listen to the Bee Gees? I reckon that would work. Really, I just feel like it would be the same energy over and over again. Just one artist sounds a little difficult to listen to. You've got to hold back catalog of classes. Fair, fair, fair, but it's still the same kind of energy. And that's what I was impressed by is that he could basically figure out one thing to kind of make him kind of ground himself through this entire process. He was sat still in that chair for hours and up to eight, ten hours. Okay, so he goes for the Bee Gees. Who would you listen to? Oh, one person? Yeah, a band. Oh, it's still a band. The one that I could probably listen to and not get bored of because I've listened to them so much is Coltay. Okay. You sound very unimpressed. No, no, no. You're probably your oasis. Yeah, of course it would be. Now, I actually wanted to look into other characters in film and TV that have had similarly long makeup looks and processes.

3:11Things like hair or makeup or prosthetics or special effects makeup. And Vecna was the first one that came up. Oh, yeah, stranger things. Stranger things the last two seasons. He spent eight hours, Jamie Campbell Bauer, in that chair, getting ready for Vecna every single day. And each piece that they put on him, those prosthetics on his back and front on his head, was about 10 to 12 kilos. I was just expecting that that was all CGI and green screen. No, that's the thing. A lot of this is actually made for each character so that they can continue to use that exact sort of look across and have that consistency. It was the same thing with Wicked, the tin man and the scarecrow in the second movie. They took about four hours to apply everything every day. The hair, the makeup, the prosthetics, they put burlap sacks on their face and they painted, you know, like what they put, I don't know, like rice and stuff. You know that, like what they make a scarecrow out of. You know that little, the farm sack.

4:12That one. It's been a long time since I've made a scarecrow. Fair enough. And the thing is that they actually intricately painted a lot of the metal on the look of the tin man onto his face every single day, very, very intricately. And it made me think of the Wizard of Oz and how different that they looked in the original. Well, they had a lot of issues in the Wizard of Oz. Yes. So I was looking into this and they used early, like rubber foam prosthetics for the lie and the tin man and the scarecrow. And they used like these facial plaster molds and things. But their materials included things like metal-based paint in a toxic green pigment that actually caused severe health issues and permanent skin damage to the actors. And I think was it the, the, the poppy field? Yes. They had a spestos in it. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that, that, that whole film said in and of itself is a separate story. It was all that. Yeah. As far as I know. Yeah, no great. But I mean, speaking of these kind of this, this transformation because over time,

5:12you've seen such a huge change in how special effects in CGI, but mainly also that makeup and hair has really transformed over the years. That means that a lot of the characters that we know and love are really, really created by these beautiful looks that now artists are really, really strong at creating. And more recently, that new season of Bridgerton has caught a lot of new people's eye because maybe not a huge fan day. I'm assuming. Did you watch it? Um, no. I watched the crown. Is that close enough? Slightly different. But that, that too. I know Bridgerton has got a lot of very eccentric characters and costumes and outfits and stuff. So that does make sense. Exactly. But I'm not a fan of Bridgerton. But that being said, you know, in the crown as well, they did create wigs for the actors that perfectly recreated the hairstyles of Queen Elizabeth because they needed to. They needed to look precise and every single day needed to look the same. So for things like this, you know, in Bridgerton, if you've ever seen it,

6:15the Queen on the show has these massive wigs and they're filled with things. They have florals all over the miniature scenes, little statuettes are embedded in the wig. And even they have huge, sort of a little floating pool. A little of the wig. There is a gap where there is a floating pool and swans swimming on top of that pool. On top of that. What's the use? There's no use. She's the Queen. That is the use. Oh, is that a normal thing to have? That is a normal thing for the Queen. A wig with a pool in the top. Like a bird bath. Exactly. It's like a bird bath, but on top of her head and about a meter tall. Right. Yes. Okay. If you haven't seen it, please do go Google it because it is incredible. For things like this, it's basically feats of engineering, right? It looks like hair. It's not hair. These entire things are, like you said, a bird bath, but it could be made out of things like mesh and animatronics and custom wigs and installations. Basically, there are these sculptures that are created on top of a person. And the costs must be absolutely crazy.

7:17So I wanted to find out how long all of this takes to make the entire process behind creating these looks and how long they take to install and how heavy we are. They are. So I thought we'd go straight to the source. So we're joined on the show by Erica Aquifist. She's won two Emmys, a BAFTA and multiple other awards for her work as a hair and makeup designer. Now, if you feel like you've probably never seen her work before, I assure you you have. Downton Abbey, Taboo, Kirsten, even Bridgerton. Bridgerton was one of her biggest projects. And she is a person that basically transforms the people that we know on the streets. You know, the actual random actors that we know today into the people on these shows. It is amazing the kind of transformation she can create. Because when she created the wigs for someone in Bridgerton, like the queen, these massive sort of meter tall art installations on top of her head, I was wondering so much. Like, how does she even come up with the ideas behind extraordinary hairstyles that go up that high?

8:22I thought that as if I could imagine this app, I can make it. I think that if you have got an idea, you can research yourself to get there. You can't know all the techniques and also you forget things, you know. That's what you got cookbooks. You know, you remember your lemon dressing cake recipe because you make it every month. And then you forget about it for two years and then you bring out your recipe again because you don't remember exactly what was in it. And I think that that is what art techniques are like. You know, on down to Nabi, I learned how to Marcel Wave really well, for instance. And I haven't really done a Marcel Wave sense. And that's like 10 years ago. So if I need to do Marcel Wave again, I would probably want to practice for a day or two before I showed anybody what I've done. And just for the audience that doesn't know, what exactly is a Marcel Wave? So if you're looking at down to Nabi, you have got a lot of characters who's got those beautiful kind of 20s waves in their hairs.

9:25Maggie Smith has got it. And you're using a curling tong to sort of create quite crisp waves. I learned through practice. I know it sounds backwards. I only know one other person who's in the industry and successful that has no formal training. I just went by what I said to you. If I can imagine it, I can make it. And you know, learning woodwork, learning textile, painting, all that kind of stuff from where I'm from. And then just adopting those skills to other types of material, I think. You learn how hair works. I mean, hair is a sculpture. So if you know how to sculpt, adapt that knowledge to hair. I wonder if she can create me a wig. I'm sure she can. What would you do as a wig? Just a normal one, please. What is a normal one, just a normal one? A little bit of Justin Bieber. A little bit of Jon Snow. Just hanging.

10:25Would be nice. Ideally like a big set of hair. A big set of hair. Who's got a good hair? I don't know. Jon Snow is what I said. That's long. Is that something to do with Game of Thrones? Goodness, you haven't watched it. Oh dear. Jon Snow. Jon Snow. Yeah. I think I Googled the wrong one. J-O-N. Oh no. No. Oh no. Don't like that. I could go and think so. No, you know like someone with just a good set of hair. I need you to think about who you would want the hair of. Sure. But I actually did want to ask Erica. What is the process of actually creating these wigs and these hairstyles? Maybe even for Dane. But also for these specific characters. When I read something even the book, I see everything. I see the color of the house. And I know if it's pale blue or dark blue. I know the door. If it's open in or out. I know if the door knob is round or straight. Like I have a very strong visual idea when I read everything in that include scripts.

11:28So let's just say I have a cartoon in my head when I read a script. Then I will talk to the director. That director will kind of describe their cartoon in their head. And then I will probably talk to the actors as well. And they also have got their own cartoon in their head. So we all have got different films and it all looks different. And then I'll go to the art department. And I go to the costume department and I look at their drawings. I'm filling in the gaps in my cartoon. And then I just try to make things work with what the art department and the costume department. It has done quite often when I see what they've done. I'm already like we're already in the same world. I don't really know how to describe it. I think designers has got that as a gut feeling. You just know you read a script and you have got a really clear idea about style. And then you finalize it together and you create colors and shapes as well. I sound very kind of loose and fluid, but it is a process.

12:32You know, the first couple of days I might not put pen to paper. I might just sit in my head and classify what I might go through a natural history museum and get inspiration for something that I don't even know I'm going to create. So I also wanted to know how long do these wigs take to both make and then also install? When I do a wig, I do a drawing of the wig rough idea. And then I try to find pictures that has got the same hair texture that I want in the wig or the same type of braids that I want in the wig. I send it off to Sean the Lounge to see if they like the ideas. They say yes. The wig that the queen is wearing in the presentation on season three, the white and cream wig. That wig was also the same wig that we had in season two for the presentation, the white wig.

13:35So we try to reuse wigs. So that white wig had cocktails in it to make it have that really tight curl pattern. And I think that actually putting in those sticks took about two weeks and then it took another week, I think, to style it. So the smaller curl pattern that you put in the wig, the longer it takes. And then the installation, how long does that typically take? It is quite quick. I reckon if it was panicky, you could now do it within half an hour. Wow, I thought it would be longer than that. You would think so, but they've basically done all the work already. So all it really takes is putting it on and gluing it down, which is a great way of thinking about it. Now, I wanted to ask her, I mean, are the ones that make wood like a David Beckham wig be very, very difficult? Or was her usual work on these TV shows more difficult? Which has been the most technically hard for her to make?

14:36The wig that the queen was wearing with the swans swimming around in it. I thought it was going to be the technicality of making it swim around. But actually, the most difficult thing with that one was that I need to sound profit for the sound man. And that proved to be the most difficult thing. And that was something that I never thought about. Obviously, when I created it, that it was going to be a problem for sound. But you learn something new every time you do something weird. And so, yeah, next time I make something move in the wig or in a costume, I will definitely make sure it is as quiet as possible. The sound man was really, really helpful. He obviously liked the swimming swan idea because it's so crazy. You know, we worked together on that and he gave me some sound proofing materials that we put inside the wig. We did some tests and he would come in and check it on his equipment to see if it would work. And then in the end we got to something that I think he was, it ended up well in the end.

15:38But it was fun because very rarely you work with the sound and something like that. Now, imagine basically you're doing trial and error to sound proof a wig. It feels so strange to say you're working with your entire crew to make sure the lighting on the wig looks good. The sound of the wig looks good because there's swans floating around in there. It's so interesting. They can't rattle, can it? They can't rattle and it can't make any form of noise that would, I guess, overcast her voice. Because the sound bar is still above her head. It's closer to the actual wig than it is to her voice. You know, not that I'm anywhere near an expert in this. But when I was younger and I used to perform on stage, there was so many technicalities with sound. And when it came to outfits, wigs, costumes. And I've only just thought about that. Now, yeah, the rustle of a costume or a wig on stage and it's different on a TV show or a movie because you're not wearing microphones.

16:39They tend to be above you, like the boom arms. But like on stage, for example, if you've got a huge wig, that's often where they would put the microphone. So they put it in your hair line. So sometimes if you see someone on stage and it looks like they've got a bit of a big mole on the corner of the head, that's usually the microphone that they try and cover up with, with makeup and stuff, instead of the traditional side down the cheek. That must be so much more difficult in stage because you can't, like in film, almost create a wig or something like a static piece of hair. It still moves. You have to have moving hair on stages like that. And it seems interesting that all of this is something that's so behind the scenes that we would never recognize. But if it went wrong, both of us would realize it immediately. Like if it looked off, we would realize it. But I wanted to ask her as well, what was the hardest part of her job? I think that most difficult thing with everything is to pair back. Because I always want to take it really, really to an extreme level to the point where it doesn't work.

17:44And then pair it back so it works with the story and the character. And that is for something that is very, very simple. And there is also for something that could be very crazy, like Bridgerton. I have to pair back and Bridgerton even. My team is incredibly talented and they feed off each other, which is perfect and lovely. But it's really difficult. And I think that is really difficult to sort of keep people super excited about what they do. And then just trying to kind of orchestrate the looks so that they work within the families. And or doing the opposite. I was doing something called the Coral with Ray Finds, where we've got very people who doesn't have a maid to do their hair to get up in the morning. It's 1817. And I've got a team who's so used to doing things perfectly, like on Bridgerton. And I will say, you've got to deconstruct. You've got to deconstruct. You've got to deconstruct the hair. And in the end, I just go in and put my hand through the hair and make it fluffy. And you know, I can see them cringing because we're so used to making perfect. But these people, you know, they get out of bed and they, you know, they do their own hair.

18:47So you have to then translate that. So I think trying to sort of fine tune that is the most difficult thing to see every detail. It's incredible the way that they match the character to the hair. They're plots. They're in surroundings the time that they live in. It's amazing that they are really creating pieces and looks that are central to the plot. And also basically create the look and the feel of the movie. But the way that she spoke about her entire crew and her entire team made me intrigued. You know, what is it like to be working with such a massive crew on one final product like a wig? I think I've talked a lot about the long hours because it really is long hours. But really is so fun. And my team has been also incredibly generous with their knowledge of teaching each other, you know. So it's that thing where, you know, hair 365 is in the wrong angle. And they'll spot it from a mile away and run in and sort it all out. And, you know, that kind of attention to detail and being able to focus on something from eight o'clock in the morning to seven o'clock at night.

19:55So hard and make it perfect. You have to be almost like a, you know, a professional athlete with your attention span, if that makes sense. Because you cannot leave it alone for one second. Because then you lose. If that makes sense. All right. So pride wise, this is going to be a pretty costly business. What are we looking at? This is interesting. They would seem like they take ages and manpower to make. But that might actually not be the case. All the wigs were synthetic. So let's say we buy a wig for 70 pounds. It's totally straight and it maybe goes down to your waist or something like that. Then maybe some extra material, maybe some loose hair, maybe some extra wefts and all that kind of stuff. So let's just say we're in 150 pounds ballpark figure. And maybe we need a cage. So it will be aluminium wire and some mesh to create that cage.

20:55Because hair is so heavy that all of these creations are usually, you know, hollow. But also all of that isn't that expensive. You know, like let's just say maximum, maximum 300 pounds. But then we're putting in somebody's hourly rate for roller in the hair for two weeks and then dressing it out for one week. And then you have quite an expensive item. Wow, I didn't know it would be that cheap to actually make it. But it's the skill, right? Yeah, and it's a manpower that goes with it. It's like saying it's going to be difficult. Exactly. It's like saying, yeah, sure. Wood is expensive, but carpentry is not. Woodworking is not, right? Like, I mean, sorry, wood is cheap, but carpentry is not, right? So it's interesting because I was looking this up as well. Like if you've ever seen Mean Girls, the movie, Regina George actually had the main character had a wig that cost about $10,000 US dollars. And Daenerys Targaryen in the Game of Thrones production had 7,000 each wig and multiple wigs were needed for each season. So they are very, very spendy, but I'm assuming that's more because of the manpower.

21:59Now that is the voice of Erica Aquist, the two-time Emmy and one-time BAFTA award winner for her work as a hair designer on sets like Bridgerton and Downton Abbey. This is the debrief podcast.