From Cop To Sheriff, His Experience With Murderers.

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2:07John Jay Wiley in addition to being a broadcaster I'm also a retired police sergeant be sure to check out our website let radio dot com and also like us on Facebook search for the law enforcement talk radio show there's a couple ways you can stay in touch and keep informed what's going on the law enforcement talk radio show number one go to our website let radio dot com signing for our email news that it's really easy to find a promise we don't spam you I send out about one email every two weeks or so and there's also a feature called broadcast channels on our Facebook page where we send messages directly to your inbox directly to your messenger we'll ease this on up for make sure you like or follow the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page and top of see broadcast channels one for free podcasts versions of the radio show and other one top post of the day so you two can stay informed quickly easily and best of all like always free kind of things from Florida we have Thomas law for now in the law enforcement talk

3:08radio show Thomas is retired law enforcement officer 51 years experience and he is in Florida now he's off to the book when crisis beats courage a sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty danger sacrifice and service from the Everglades to ground zero and his websites 846 publishing dot com that's 846 publishing dot com Thomas thanks for your service a b thanks for being guessing law enforcement talk ratio both very much appreciate it thank you it's good to have you here Thompson we're going to talk about a couple things by the way how long you've been retired from policing two and a half years so you're still relatively new with this whole retirement thing yes I am yeah you're you're you're a rookie I've been retired since 92 I got her retired young well congratulations on that that's when I started being the sheriff of a county that's my things have changed quite a bit since 92 have a day we'll talk about some of that in a moment your career you did a total of 51 years of law enforcement and you were the youngest

4:12ever officer in a state in New York how were you when you did that I was aged 20 and I was 21 when the academy and 22 and graduated I thought I was young the truth is I thought I knew everything I didn't know squat well I can relate to that team here I got educated as I went yeah I was really young yeah and we we were and I our career is kind of a laugh but I'd say this I got trained by we had a lot of Vietnam combat veteran police we had a few a command staff their Korean war veteran police and they had they didn't they didn't pull any punches they were quite abrupt of what they told you oh yeah it was different times that in fact it was you went to school hard night my head we had Vietnam people too as well and and we were like a band of brothers all right great respect for everybody we had a thing too an endeavor have on May but where they would

5:18settle disagreements in the parking garage of the district stations and they're like yeah just meet me there and we'll talk about it then that sounds familiar it was a different time and back then maybe you can wax poetic and go back on in history a little bit back then and Baltimore had a different lingo different slang New York Florida all uses different languages slang but there was a saying that they had we didn't have peer support teams we didn't have critical incidents we didn't have we had a case of beer in a parking lot and really bad nights and the famous saying that a lot of people had was suck it up buttercup your Baltimore police you can lick your wounds later on well we didn't have beer in the parking lot but I can tell you that we had to suck it up and you had to you had to find your own way and how we how I addressed that I would talk to the officers that I work with and you'd end up start laughing

6:20and so forth and you'd have a maybe better way to handle that call or a safer way and that's how we did things early on did you see a big change here career from 92 to when you retired two years ago yes yes because I was in I got the opportunity to work at other age disease it was high crime and much more than where I was in the rural county there my Amy was one of them and when I became sheriff of the whole new world and I got introduced to things that I never thought I would sometimes the real evil people are the ones sitting in a suit and in a powerful job you know oh yeah and and I could I could tell you that's everything that happened to me in my early years really shaped me for who I am now and because that program was great when I first became an officer I found my niche in investigations I just I just worked all the time serving cases and that was the biggest reward I could get and that's how it all started with me so when you were a sheriff

7:26at one point it was that in New York state it was them Florida that was in New York state and that was uh I got elected on and took off this January of 1992 wow that was a yeah and you said there was a real eye-opening experience for you oh yeah because I never you know I never mingle with all the the governors and the top politician state federal all that so I I learned how to survive wherever I went and that was one place that the good thing about being sheriff versus you were involved more with the chief the chief has the answer to the mayor right maybe politics involved the sheriff don't have to answer to the governor the sheriff's are not in New York are are they get their their budgets from the county but you don't answer to anybody from the county and then the sheriff's in New York state are the number one vocator so whenever I go to a table with a budget the public's behind me and that was really that's the best thing about being a sheriff because you don't like during COVID we didn't arrest people for not having their mass on and all that stuff

8:30it didn't some areas so so that's the difference right there so I was able to take control of our entire agency and uh we were very successful and I was elected for a current four or five years or five four year term excuse me well congratulations on a good career and by the way just personally I don't have a lot of respect a lot of admiration and what I did when I was younger for police chiefs and police commissions or what terms you want to use sheriff's a different story that the police chiefs the commissioners all those people the directors they're appointed by mayors and city managers and they quite often are very political beings and um and quite often especially nowadays they seem to forgot what policing was all about all there's no question you know the country's a mess and I remember just being and I rarely do I get political but you're brought up something about COVID and I watched police locking people up for COVID

9:31violations and I'm like what has happened to this country well in New York state the the New York state sheriff's under the New York state sheriff's association that's our that's our where we have our meetings and lobbying all that stuff they all came together in New York state refused to cooperate with and the governor actually threatened to remove sheriff but they can't remove us they don't have the authority to remove us so uh that's that's that's the good thing about being elected sheriff but the buck stops as you right a sheriff a sheriff is a number one law enforcement officer for each county and if if you get good and bad at everything including sheriff's but I was able to get a lot done because of that authority and I didn't have to bow down to any politicians with a short break we're talking with Thomas law firm Thomas is retired law enforcement officer about 51 years a law enforcement experience he was the youngest ever officer in state of New York at 20 when we returned we were going to talk about a murder

10:36involving a hitman a hitman which is very rare and he wrote the book when crisis meets courage a sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty dangerous sacrifice and service from the Everglades the ground zero as websites eight four six publishing dot com that's eight four six publishing dot com of all the radio stations in the United States there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show on Facebook there's only one official page do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the law enforcement talk British show Facebook page this is law enforcement talk British show we're going to take a short break I promise you we will be right back someone asked what's the catch what's the cost there is no cost for anything on the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast website let radio dot com let radio dot com again that's let radio dot com has the news been getting you down I'm Megan McCartle and I'm here to help

11:41I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post opinion called reasonably optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are now I am a believer in America that's worth fighting for join me wednesdays on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts did you know that parents rank teaching financial literacy as the toughest life skill that's where green light comes in the debit card and money app made for families with green light you can send money to kids quickly set up chores automate allowance and track spending with real time notifications kids learn how to earn save and spend responsibly while parents have peace of mind knowing smart money habits are being built with guardrails in place try green light risk free today a green light dot com slash try green light that's green light dot com slash try green light return a conversation with Thomas will offer it on the long force and talk

12:47ratio containers from florida he is a retired long force and officer 51 years the long force and experience he was the youngest ever officer in a state in New York at 20 he wrote the book when crisis meets courage a sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty danger sacrifice and service from the ever glazed the ground zero and a website get more details about the book is 846 publishing dot com that's 846 publishing dot com one of the things that that I'm almost never talk about policing period but I just had a co-works the registration asked me a question about a case that's going on and one of the things that I in my career in Baltimore came across was that and I always say this you know tough talk doesn't make a tough man and lots of people talk a big game when they're walking away but the real hit man the real murderers they were fueling far between I did get into scrap with someone who's supposed to murder seven people we couldn't charge

13:49but he was he was crying when it was over with it was not a fun thing you had a situation where you investigated murder then involved the hit man didn't you yeah yes he was out of a new Mexico and he traveled to our county you know his all his crimes were in albuquerque new Mexico and he came to our state and believe or not at 9 o'clock in the morning when I was just got to the office I got a call for the American America's most wanted TV show and they had they had information on this who was from albuquerque from here now we're not going to use names and I'm going to believe the names out okay oh okay yeah I got a phone call for the America's most wanted of course I had a confirm it was them and it was but they had information of a suspect a gang member that's a hit man that's in our it's in my jurisdiction in the town of

14:49Sherburn that was in a living with a girl up there and she was in how how the American most wanted got involved the girl that he was staying with mother washed America's most wanted TV and saw her new boyfriend on that show so that the American most wanted air even the even the governor was on there being interviewed he was such a so bad and in the background of this person that I got from the detectives out of albuquerque new Mexico was he he actually made a head on a high school football star on the highway and shot him and killed him and shot him in the head killed him and then he went on a 121 day crime spree all through the area and it took a lot to catch him and find him and they locked him up in the burning bill of jail in albuquerque new Mexico and a few days later he escaped and was like a glass D movie right he was the

15:5765 feet of sheets and went down a wall and somehow escaped from that jail so nevertheless he was in my county so I called my staff we had well trained people and archived people upset on the cover up there to make sure nobody's going in on the apartment and then we went up there I wanted to originally I wanted to take him down outside because the detectives says he will never go out he'll never give up he'll go out the blaze in fact he would brag about that all the time this kid it was only 19 but so we waited and waited and the mom kept calling her and he was getting suspicious and it got back to me through America's most wanted that he'd already threatened to kill her if she if she turned her men so the mother was freaking out she was at a different location and we don't know where but so I finally decided we're going to do an entry and I had my first team with me anyway and I've done a lot of lots of entries so we did entry on this department I asked we got all the plans I tried to evacuate a couple case of fire shooting started so we I

17:03led the I led the charge but these people are well trained and we went in it's not a big apartment but you went in the kitchen she was there she got she got what one officer was with her we cleared the living room this is in seconds they cleared the bedroom and we cleared the bathroom and he and I know he was there but we didn't see him so about three seconds later I saw the bathroom door which opened up into a corner he was behind that door so I hit that door as hard as I could hit it because I figured he was armed and anyway while we're pulling me in a lieutenant was pulling down to the floor he kicked the door and he had a door jam and one of my officers was trying to get in his gun discharged and went right into the bathroom wall so we got him down and you know he'd had enough because he had it not on his head from the door but we got him under control and that was it there's no blazer glory there's no gun fights in this guy all the stuff he talked about was

18:05just focus focus well no I think I think what happened he was up here in our area long enough or he got laid back that's what I think okay and there and there was guns there but he couldn't get to in that fast enough part of the thing that and you were the sheriff then was that the situation oh yes I was a sheriff and I remember doing raids as a sergeant and it's a different thing because you're responsible for your people's behavior and responsible for their welfare as well and I'm sure that ended your mind well no I'm the kind of person I've worked all those ranks and I've always stayed in touch with the people and the trenches and I don't care even when everybody got trained after we trained the whole department they were good at what they did I would come to the briefings and and the real bad ones I would go to the scenes and they just it felt made me felt comfortable but they really in many times they didn't need me it just I you know that

19:06I used to say hey if someone goes bad I'll go down with the ship right that's right here yeah and that was much appreciated by me because uh quite often when we did really scary things command staff was not around yeah no you're absolutely right about that I'm just not that guy no and that's it and I'm not saying there was a case with everybody we had a few that wrote them old that were great they were back you up they would show up but they were fueling far between the vast majority the overwhelming majority were worthless well the bigger the department is not better right I saw that Miami and I see it everywhere I thought my department these people were almost incompetent right it caused more problems than they were but that's that's life but I've always been so proud of my staff and so forth all the time I've worked wherever I went I always talked to everybody even I go around talk to everybody right and just make sure that and I always show them my support

20:07I you know I've been on the the bad end of getting blame for something I didn't do because you don't want to get themselves in trouble there's the officers you know I mean seniors and I just never did that and I didn't allow that in my department either now and there there was a main thing there are two things that we didn't tolerate we didn't if you did something wrong you took the blame for it you didn't you didn't pass blame on someone else number one number two there was no such thing as corruption there was there was unheard of we didn't tolerate it we didn't want it we didn't want it and we're nearest and and by the way if someone had a reputation being heavy handed with their prisoners they were not welcome on your calls we're talking with Thomas Lawford and he's retired law enforcement officer 51 years experience he's authored book when crisis means courage I sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty dangerous sacrifice and service from the Everglades the ground zero and a website get more details eight four six publishing dot com as eight four six publishing dot com you can find us on Facebook look for and like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page this law enforcement talk radio show yes someone's

21:12more talk about don't go anywhere we'll be right back how would you like to improve your let's get healthy tips you can use today for free they don't require any money at all you can download a free ebook 15 tips improve your health at let healthy dot com this let healthy dot com again it's let healthy dot com and let's get healthy for free has the news been getting you down i'm Megan McCartle and i'm here to help i'm the host of a new show from Washington Post opinion called reasonably optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling america right now every wednesday i'm going to talk to people who see a path forward does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are now i am a believer in america that's worth fighting for join me wednesdays on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts did you know that parents rank teaching financial literacy as the toughest life

22:14that's where green light comes in the debit card and money app made for families with green light you can send money to kids quickly set up chores automate allowance and track spending with real-time notifications kids learn how to earn save and spend responsibly while parents have peace of mind knowing smart money habits are being built with guardrails in place try green light risk free today a green light dot com slash try green light that's green light dot com slash try green light now i'd like to introduce you to meaningful beauty the famous skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford it's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin meaningful beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women it's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system leaving your skin feeling soft smooth and nourished i recommend starting with Cindy's full regiment which contains all five of her best selling products including the amazing youth activating melon serum this next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology

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24:20let's say there there's a almost as many hitman movies as their CIA movies and almost wrong and by the way every police kind of thing i see movie television show whatever they usually get it far wrong so and they just drive me crazy but policing itself it was very rare to encounter an actual hitman did were you shocked when you get the call from america's most wanted well that's never happened to me before and uh i just yeah i was pretty pretty i was i don't i remember i remember shocked but it was different and i had to digest all this and i and this guy this is his background i mean he went on armed robberies carjack and burglaries he he was a satanic worshipper i mean this guy is probably the worst person you're going to get right he didn't just didn't care and we just got him we got him we got him away from his gun he nothing without his guns most of the people i met in my career and by the way the vast majority

25:22people i met my police career we didn't arrest and even when they committed crimes we had a thing called discretion we didn't always arrest everybody but even when you did have to arrest someone 90 i'd say 98 percent of those people would never give you moments harm never never really were difficult it was a very small percentage of career criminals this guy sounded like he was a violent career criminal oh absolutely tremendous record even age 19 i know he went to prison i don't know be still in there or not but the other thing i wanted to mention about this is we got combinations from the governor and also we were on the next segment of america's most wanted that was kind of neat watching our different agency in our department on america's most wanted and not only that uh john waltz used to come to our sheriff's conferences up in New York so i actually got to know him pretty well did you ever think he'd be in a position in what county were you sheriff of i was uh i was sheriff of chanel county and that's located

26:23between big emptan and you know southwest of ciracuse and they were like that we yeah we think there's nothing bad happens in agents like that but they do oh yes they do and we had 900 square miles and and uh you we had single units except for the midnight shift and you very seldom had backup that would get there in time so you know you had uh you had to really take care of yourself that was a question i had because in my experience i was a city police in baltimore and backup was minutes away uh but quite often with uh these agencies i thought they had it made i had to have sitting in shade drinking great cool laid all that stuff there by themselves and and backward could be 20 30 minutes away oh no that's us that was us and we say have a lieutenant says one main one fight one main one fight you didn't see him out there yeah yeah but i'll tell you something i did when i when i when i graduated from high school i i was six foot six foot two i played

27:25all this work and stuff but i was only 160 pounds so i started lifting in 1971 and i still work out today i worked out all these five decades and i got myself up to about two ten yeah and that's how i survived that's what i did too and i i still do and then the reason why i do it today and and i'm in my late sixties now i go to the gym three times a week i'll work out hard i work out heavy i i pray a lot i meditate i'm not there to socialize but uh bulk and strength was something you needed in police work absolutely then you had to learn how to deal with fear that was fear right and you you you you you you goals in every scrape you have every every time you survive after a while i i'm telling you i'm the luckiest person that i know i've had 20 times or could have ended bad uh and i always walked away and they went to jail and i went home and i i'll be honest with you i don't know why i i used to think when i was in a job i'm totally different than i was now i was then but i used to think uh that nothing battle happened to me

28:30because you know i'm just that good uh well it turns out a lot of people that were good police really good police didn't make it no i know that i that's exactly right i've lost a lot of friends a lot of people uh the one you the you i had a analogy real quick when i when i really got seasoned as a cop that you're in a battle you're you're sitting on a battlefield and it's good versus evil right versus wrong and then when you really think about this that kind of bet that's been forever yeah and when they when they say to get rid of the jails and let them all out you know there's a reason why you have jails and there's there's a evil there's a percentage of evil people out there just based on their actions just they are and and by the way that hitman was for example the rare but they happened you also were involved in a a homicide investigation where 12-year-old girl was murdered can you talk about that yes i can unfortunately it's involved in a lot

29:30of murder cases but this one was this was this is a bad for me for the children to get killed and but this uh this is over in my the west side of my county which i'd feel like it's called i'd feel like and there was a there was a man there that had a house in i'd feel like but he walked it actually was uh out of jerseys somewhere down there him and his wife and they had a kid and they have gatherings in the summer there where they don't have beers in this nant blava this guy here that i'm talking about uh he already spent 10 years in Arizona jail for drug trafficking so he was there and he in his wife his wife and him were having problems because she suspected he was going out on her and blah blah blah so they had a fight at this at this party and she went home and so what he did he went to his neighbors which was about three quarters down the road and asked them if maybe his wife

30:32could babysit the kids because she he wanted to make up with his wife and she wasn't available so she she says well do you think that maybe shy and she's 12 years old she's never babysitted before gorgeous little girl and he says you think that she could and the father says okay because he knew him he says i don't want you drinking or anything else with her in the vehicle and i want her home you know early early hour well she never came home and what happened was he went back he went back to that house and the wife says why am i going anywhere with you you take her back home or she belongs well he didn't take her back home he went up on a back road and he constructed this i mean it got dark it i mean next thing you know he shows up at a hospital 30 miles away with her dead in the truck laying on the floor board on the driver's side where he had he was talking about how he had to keep try to keep her feet off her body and she was dead

31:39so he come up with a story my officers went up there took him in and detectives came in and I came in later on and uh he had this whole story he was cooperating but he wasn't it didn't make any comments at all he was saying that he took her up there to go see the horses because she likes horses and then he was doing a three-point term with his truck and he accidentally ran over and killed her so he gave us the times and all this stuff and he said he he didn't wasn't familiar with the area we knew he was but he drove all over the place all these different talents for hours and he finally at five o'clock in the morning he drives into an emergency room and his dead girls is in truck and i mean it was terrible i'm not even going to explain so our officers got we got involved i think crime scenes people over and he told us where he died and it was a bloody mess over there it is horrible and then my I still didn't stay

32:40struggled with crimes against children uh and even uh preteens early teens doesn't matter we're talking with Thomas Lawford and he's retired law enforcement officer 51 years experience he was the youngest ever law enforcement officer stayed in New York he wrote the book when crisis beats courage a sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty dangerous sacrifice and service from the Everglades to ground zero and a website get more details about the book is 846 Publishing.com that's 846 Publishing.com return our conversation with Thomas in just a few moments his law enforcement talk ratio don't go anywhere we'll be right back if you're on the clubhouse drop-in audio chat app be sure to look for me and follow me my name is John the letter j widely w-i-l-e-y you also search for at let radio show that's john j widely w-i-l-e-y at let radio show on the clubhouse drop-in audio chat app

33:45the maps app that came with your phone it's fine if you enjoy waiting and guessing and inefficient routes or you could use map quest map quest is back with live directions real-time traffic and faster routes it moves when you move best of all no prints are needed no paper no more misterds just you and the app get there fast with map quest download the map quest app on the app store or visit mapquest.com map quest still getting you there has the news been getting you down i'm Megan McCartle and i'm here to help i'm the host of a new show from Washington post opinion called reasonably optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling america right now every wednesday i'm going to talk to people who see a path forward does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are you know i am a believer in america and it's worth fighting for join me wednesdays on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts

34:46the current conversation with thomas lawford on the law enforcement talk radio show thomas is retired law enforcement officer of 51 years experience he was the youngest ever officer in the state of new york at the age of 20 by the way i can barely remember being 20 years old to happen but i don't remember it's a long time ago he's authored the book when crisis means courage or sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty dangerous sacrifice and service from the everybody's ground zero and get more details about the book and other books at eight four six publishing dot com it's eight four six publishing dot com that is the website thomas i want to go back to the story uh about the 12 year old being murdered she let me see if i get this right she was a babysitter and the guy wound up turning on her and i i don't want you to go in details but he came up with this elaborate story and he usually starts with murderers as i didn't mean to kill him as an accident oh that's correct and uh we we could charge him murder

35:53because it it it quite frankly it hit over the car so far it's charged with a reckless and dated at first which selling so we kept him in undertow and when he was at the office of the detective he tried to throw away this electrical component that we really didn't know what it was at the time and they picked that out of little garbage can because they saw him do that and we didn't know what that was well that ended up being the best witness we could ever have uh we worked on it for several days and then somebody didn't know what they were talking about says that's a GPS monitor yeah and so we got to hold the wipe the wife put that in the truck so so quite frankly when we got her app and her computer we saw exactly where he went what time how fast everything he lied about all the times and everything what he was parked at the back of a uh abandoned house here that we'd already been there and we retreated uh needle

36:54that and we also matched up the tire tracks later on with his truck so he was there for three hours according to the GPS and with that girl that little girl and and that that uh the needle had his DNA on it cocaine and also you can see where when he left there and he he took her right like he's going toward the girl's house down there that's the way they came in and he's moved around long pretty good where you can see where the truck veers off the roadway and up the bank and that's where he killed her he intentionally drove off that bank and killed that little girl no question and what was the final outcome with uh this guy? well he was convicted and he was sentenced 25 of the life and and people would use the term uh justice was served and i'm i'm not a big believer in justice uh yeah they're incarcerated whatever might be but uh do you still carry around nightmares of that incident and their family

37:58members as well? you know i've always uh said i don't have PTSD and stuff like that somehow i can cope with this stuff because i do everything i can to make it right but i will say this i've had seen so many crimes that i've been involved in there's no penalty that can get bad or not for punishment no and and by the way when they say that the biggest misconception is well at least there was closure and they got justice well no it doesn't bring their person back to life there there is no justice is only incarceration and i'm not i'm not negative incarceration a lot of people i'll be honest with you a lot of these people their lifers need to be executed i'm just saying this right now people can take what they want they're uh they're with your kids they are with other kids are low-level fenders they're with people who work in prisons uh and a lot of them get uh commuted sentences and released in public and they commit other more violent crimes they

38:58got to go i agree and i always always say this the cure for a lot of these ills is a 25 cent bullet right behind the ear that's it no we don't have to have millions of millions of dollars but that's neither here nor there i want to go into this um and by the way my personal belief is you can't do a career in law enforcement and not get dinged up emotionally you you may not be as bad as some other people but you've got your you did your time you you're gonna have the the wounds to go with it emotional physical mental as well oh absolutely and there's a reason why they call that a young person's game because the oldie get the more that he experience and the less the less tolerant i'll become i want to transition you wrote this book when crisis meets courage a sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty dainter sacrifice and service from never glazed the ground zero what prompted you to do this well i i've always been on a goal i've always been moving fast for decades and i spent time with my family and this is not to cure them all of a sudden

40:02i stopped and i i all my life i've kept journals i've got the cases i got the media i got everything and i said what am i going to do with this when i die right i'm in my seventies so i says you know and i started i just added everything up and i says you know what i'm going to write i'm going to write a book from my family the they were all as proud of what i was doing but they didn't really know everything that i did no so that that's why i did it and it stopped there but it just just taken right off and i will uh i got i got another thing i would like to discuss here if i could have mentioned it i was the president of the New York State Sheriff's Association when we got attacked on 9-11 so that that threw me in terrorism and i really uh we we and i part of the books even night there's a whole section on that how we all the departments police departments state police chiefs and sheriffs came together and we had an army that was

41:03working terrorism for a long long time in New York it was pretty impressive what we what we were doing by and still is and by the way i had a guest on the show a long time ago he's retired NYPD and part of his tour of duty is he was assigned to Afghanistan and people don't realize that american police are quite often doing a lot of things that that people don't realize well you know i didn't know that either but i i found out when i got involved in terrorism i i've served on the the state original counter-terrorism board and that's when i learned about New York City they have 37,000 cops and they had cops in all these countries and they were getting better intel on terrorists movement than than our feds yeah because we we had everybody in New York City any department they're all there on these meetings including the FBI sometimes the CIA and the intel was coming from the police department yeah i don't doubt that at all i really don't because and by the way we

42:09talked earlier in the conversation about being trained by Vietnam combat veterans they were some old school old-fashioned police and they believed in gumshoe stuff they believe in a thing called respect you always show respect they taught me that early on no matter where you are especially in someone's house until they change the tone of the conversation and then there's no backing down but they can go out and they can talk to people they were on a post for 25 years and they would come back with information they come back with details right press it and we don't we don't seem to see that too much you know i know it happens i know there are police like that but it just seems to me and maybe i'm preaching a choir here but it seems to me that we ask far more of our police than we've gotten away from their basic function and now it's more about dollars and cents and what the coverage rate is and all this other stuff how much territory can one guy cover guy means men and women and it's not about i remember my sergeant saying you're now

43:11post officer this is your post if i pull you up and i point to a guy and you don't know who he is you don't know where he lives you haven't done your job and i'm getting someone else that does oh you and i speak the same language that's the way it was and by the way i was taught that because if they ran from you you'd wind up on their porch you're right you there was none of this stuff about you have to shoot people there was none of that stuff it was like you you want to cutting them um so the book is called when crisis meets courage a sheriff's true stories of 50 years of duty dangers sacrifice and service from every glazed ground zero and by the way my hands off there a lot of people with the ground zero stuff we'll talk about another time the website for the we can get more details about eight four six publishing dot com that's eight four six publishing dot com and closing Thomas this is where you get to pontificate a little bit what's the biggest change you see in law enforcement today compared to when you were rookie they they've compromised the police the police are compromised now i'll use new york for example

44:14they with all these bail reform states uh what they do is they give you a menu they're pass a law that that actually they're taken away authority from the uh discretion of police if you for example if you commit a robbery without a gun you can't it might go to lock up for one day then the judge let has a lot of mouth you've got to give him a ticket is what you've got to do that's basically what you have a discretion we're talking with uh Thomas by the way thanks for your service and thanks to being guests on a law enforcement talk radio show both very much appreciate it and my pleasure pleasure to be here of all the radio stations in the United States there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show on Facebook there's only one official page do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page i'd like to thank our guests for coming on the law enforcement talk radio show the law enforcement talk radio show is a naturally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on

45:16numerous AM and FM radio stations across the country we're always adding more failure stations if you enjoyed the podcast version of show which is always free please do be a favor and tell a friend or two or three i'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast until then this is john j wiley see ya