Freedom in Bowhunting

Welcome to the Bowhunter Podcast. All bowhunting all the time. Now, here's your host,

editor Christian Berg. Welcome back to the Bowhunter Podcast. We are all bowhunting

all the time. Here once again on the floor of the 2026 shot show in Las Vegas. I am excited

about this episode. This is kind of like a rules collide mashup because as bowhunners,

sometimes we can be a little bit insular. We think of ourselves in our own little community,

but the tentacles of bowhunting stretch far and wide throughout this whole show floor.

And I'm happy to be here with an old friend from Pennsylvania, a fellow Pennsylvania,

my buddy Matt Jettis, Matt, you're a pastor, you're an international hunting consultant,

and you are the director of camp freedom, which is an organization that serves our men and women

transitioning out of the military with outdoor experiences. Oh yeah, yeah, I've been very blessed

in life and just a great opportunity to serve so many different people in really cool ways,

so we're going to talk some bowhunting and camp freedom today, and then we've got a guy, a young guy,

how old are you, Chase? 17. 17 years old, Chase Buckenberg, and I knew Chase is dead as a business leader,

a very successful businessman from Pennsylvania back when I was a newspaper reporter in my former

life, and Chase, you weren't even born probably back then, I just met Chase. Chase's dead Bill

Buckenberg is the president of the National Rifle Association, so how cool is that that his son

is sitting here with me today? You're a relatively new bowhunter, that's a couple of years, yeah,

three years, but you've had a lot of experience. Yes, I've done a New Zealand, South Africa,

all over, yeah, it's awesome. And you love bowhunter, I'm addicted. What are you shooting?

I'm shooting, so I started off with a bear, and now I've transitioned to a dart, and so I'm using

dartons right now, yeah, so fantastic. So we're going to have some fun, and I want to tease,

Chase has something in that case that is on a site that we will get to as well, so I guess I'll

start out like this, Matt. We're here at Shot Show, I saw a Facebook post from you, you know,

we're with all the big names, I saw you were hanging out with Uncle Ted, Ted Nugent yesterday,

obviously you're here representing Camp Freedom. What's it like, Matt, at the show this year,

and like, how's it helping you to do what you do? The show, this show is always great because

it brings together, like you're saying, everybody from all the components of not only the hunting

world, but the entire industry that's behind it, and so it's really great. And I love the capacity of

being here to talk to people who can support Camp Freedom. I mean, that's really, I'm here on the

floor, building networks, building relationships, talking to people who are already support camp,

and people who we would like to support camp. So from that aspect, it's been great because

you're starting off with people who generally have the same mindset. You're talking with people

who are generally pro second amendment from that aspect, who are pro conservatism, conservativeism,

who are pro hunting, who are pro outdoor. So it's a great start point because you know you have

those things in common already, but it's been awesome. The show has been great, people have been great,

yesterday we had an opportunity, you know, to talk with, we had Danny Coker with us,

who's been a spokesperson, the count has been a spokesperson for nine, for, he's done nine

builds for Camp Freedom. We connected him as Ted Nuget. So we connected him in Ted Nuget because

they both love music obviously. And Danny has a band that's incredible. So we got to put that

all together. We're here with a bunch of really special operators who've come through Camp Freedom,

you know, and who have given a lot of our country. And they know the benefit of Camp Freedom. So

that helps when they're with us talking about Camp Freedom. It's been incredible. And then

I just love everything here. I love everything about it. So it's been great. It's been great.

The cats back up with you. I mean, I was trying to look back and remember when I first met you,

but it's a lot of years ago when I was still doing some writing. You helped me actually,

yeah, I mean, I started and I launched some of that. I bought some stories from you back in my

Peterson's following days. And then I think even though you're from Pennsylvania and you're

back in Pennsylvania now, gosh, I think at the time that we first connected professionally,

you were still in Colorado. I was you had gone out again like in another role as a pastor.

I think you were leading like a sportsman's church out there, weren't you? Yeah, we did. Actually,

we ended up doing four different churches out there while we were out there. The one that was our

base that we went out there for was basically a new church plant. And when we started that,

three ran that and that from there, we launched other churches. And then we started doing a sportsman's

banquet, you know, which you're very familiar with. Yeah, done them all over. But we did a sportsman's

banquet where it's just an opportunity to share the lords with men and women and love the outdoors.

And then yet another kettle of his sort of rainbow of outdoor involvement. You've got an

international hunting consultant called Journey Hunts. Yeah, yeah. So in 2009, I went to Africa.

And I had a great safari. It was a great trip. But really, I was booked through a booking

agent. And that word, a lot of times make people kind of do this, you know, because booking

agents have a history of not doing everything correct, not doing everything with integrity.

So we had a great hunt. But at the end of the hunt, $4,000, I find out on the back end of the hunt

that I owe for cost that was never told to me and the three other guys with me. And so it was a

bit shocking to say the least on the flight home, I literally built a business plan for Journey Hunts,

what became Journey Hunts to just say, why can't we do this with integrity, with character, with

honesty. And since that time in 2009, we have taken people all over the globe, all over the world.

Our strength is international. That's our strength that what we do, bow hunting and bow hunting

international. We do rifle hunting everywhere also. But that's really our niche is international

bow hunting. We do it all over the world. I love it. And we treat people right. We tell them the

truth. We do all the information. And we go nowhere where where I or one of my staff has not gone.

Yeah. And I know you spend a lot of time over in Africa, other like what other countries and

areas and species do you sort of offer? Yeah. We really, I mean, we do it all. We do Greenland,

we do Spain, really all over Europe. We do everything in the Middle East. We do New Zealand. We

do Australia. We do South America. I mean, literally we do the globe. And it's really good. And

we try and find the best of the best. There's a lot of good outfitters. There's a lot of good people

in this industry. And we just really try and find who are the people that are going to do things right.

And that's what we find. And then that's what we work with. So do you get this guy over on your

trips with me? Yeah. And we chase was one of those guys that when he picked up a bow, I knew it was

done. Like just when we were shooting out like he's done. He's finished him and his brother bow.

Yeah. Like we love this. We're in. And you've done Africa. Yeah, with my Africa the first two years

right after picking up the bow. And then I was trying to go a third year. My dad wouldn't let us go

three years in a row. That was too much. So we took a break from South Africa. Maybe next year we're

going to go back to South Africa again. Last year was New Zealand. So yeah. So tell me what it's

like going over to Africa for the first time. Yeah, it's and what what did you hunt and what did

you experience? It's crazy. So the first year I did just an Impala on a work haul. I started out

with that. And then the second year I was a lot more committed to bow hunting. So I did everything

pretty much with the bow except the cape off below. So I did Eland, golden wool, the beast,

water buck. What else did I do? I don't know. I did I think five or six animals on the first

or on the second trip with the bow. So and then New Zealand was red stag, tar, fallow deer,

and ram. So that was an awesome trip. And yeah, just keep going. One of the nice things about those

kinds of trips is it's different than hunting at home. Because if you have, you know, if you're

hunting deer, you're home in Pennsylvania, you can only kill one buck. Exactly. Where if you go on

out west, you can only kill one bull. But when you go to the other countries,

it's awesome. And shoot a lot. Yes, exactly. And it makes it, I know you've been preaching this to me

for years because because Matt's been trying to get me over to Africa. And I was just telling Matt

before the show, you know, I think we're going to finally be able to make that happen. I love it.

Well, one of the things that you've always been pitching that to me is that it's it's the multiple

animals. It's the international flavor and experience. It a camp atmosphere. And honestly,

last but not least, it's the value. People don't realize what an actual good value, especially

Africa is, right? Africa is simply the best value in the world. Like for the price of a now

white tail hunt in the Midwest, which I love, you know, and you're rich people to do. Yeah, which

can be like easily seven, eight grand. Yeah. And for $4,600 or $4,800, you can go to Africa

and hunt five animals just to put it in perspective. Good animals. You know what I'm saying? So

it's really the best price point in the world. And what's neat to me is I love hunting. I love shooting

my bow. I love hunting, you know, all kinds of different animals. But what's so cool about Africa

is you're going to a cultural experience where it's new food. It's new animals. You never know

what you're going to see when you're sitting in a line or when you're riding on a safari truck.

But it's the people. I mean, the people are great people. And you're really doing a great service

for the basis of conservation, which people don't understand when they're looking from the outside

in is the people that work in the industry there and the hunting industry. If it's not for that

hunting industry, there is no work. Next to mining in South Africa, for instance, hunting

industry is the second greatest input into their economy. And there would be thousands and thousands

of people with no opportunity for work, no opportunity to provide for their families. And you get

to see food donated to people in real need. You get to participate in all of the aspects of the hunt.

And you get to see these people really have an opportunity that they would not have without

our industry. It wouldn't exist. And so it's just, it's everything. It's all of it. My favorite

thing now is sitting around the fire every night in Africa, looking at the southern cross in the sky

and just seeing things that I can't believe that I am having the opportunity and being blessed to see.

Nothing. Yeah. So you got me excited to talk about it. Nothing beats South Africa. It's now,

if I could go back anywhere countless times it would be South Africa. Yeah.

What's your favorite part of like the camp experience? Everything. Like the food sitting around

the fire at night, everything. It's awesome. The people there are great. So yeah.

So if people want to learn more about that kind of an opportunity and experience,

you've got a website for that journeyhunts.com is where they can go. Just go to journeyhunts.com

and all of our hunts are listed there. And I honestly, I do a really horrible job of updating it as

often as I should, but the contact information directly to me is there. And we can literally get

you to anywhere that you want to go in the world with people that are trustworthy. Another nice thing

that I wanted to mention when you're putting groups together because most of us, let's face it,

if you're going to go to Africa or New Zealand or Australia or Spain, you're not going to bite yourself.

Yeah. A lot of these hunts in Africa, I would think, it's not weapons specific.

A lot of them. So you might have a whole family or a group of buddies who want to go and it's like,

hey, Chase and I and that, we all want to shoot our vertical bows. But there's another guy,

Grandpa wants to come to and he's going to shoot a rifle and then maybe your wife is going to come

and she wants to shoot some things with the trospo and that can all happen as part of the same group.

Yeah, it's really freeing there. Like it really is whatever weapon is your choice,

whatever you want to use, whether it's fire or arm, whether it's vertical bows, whether it's

trospoes, literally, it's open. And it's really great because we can introduce people who've never

hunted to hunting there in a very easy way and it happens all the time. I can't tell you how many

spouses come, children come and they're not hunting at all. And by day five, they're hunting,

all of them are hunting. And it's also increased over the last 10 years. Families come like crazy

now. And the cool thing about who we worked with in South Africa, in the midby also in Zimbabwe is

when we have the camp, it's just us. So a lot of places you go, you know, you don't know who you're

in camp with. If you put a group together of a family of four or four buddies who are going,

it's only you. You're it. And that's how we've chosen to take care of things just because it makes

it special, really makes you dig. Yeah, that's great. You know, it's, again, you got me kind of

fired up to get over there. And I wanted to transition over to camp freedom because you were telling me

real quick before we started like how long you guys have been around and then you mentioned how

many veterans you've served. It was like an incredible number. Yeah, this has been camp freedom.

Thanks to Chase's father and mother. At the Bokkenbergs are two of the most generous people I've

ever met in my life. I mean, who has a 2300 acre property and decides, I'm not going to use it

for my family and for my own purposes. I want to use it for the good of others. Like, let's just

start there. That's absolutely incredible. So camp freedom is 2350 acres. We started in 2008

June, January 1st. That's when Kelly and I hit the ground running. And that first year we brought

49 guests, which was aggressive. We had to renovate the building. We had to work the ground. We had

book food plots in like we launched and just said, let's go. So we had 49 guests. And that first

year was really life changing for us. We knew that we had this group of people, disabled veterans,

disabled first responders, their families and gold star families and now gold shield families,

which are the remaining family members of first responders who died in service. We knew that

there was a great need. We knew that these men and women suffered from trauma. And they also suffered

from transitioning out of that lifestyle, you know, at the end of service. And so we knew the

problem, but we didn't know what the impact would be. So we brought in 49 guests that first ball.

And one of those guests was a Navy veteran who was medically discharged from the Navy,

names Kyle and he games at camp freedom. And he came to actually pitch me for a Jeep event,

which we ended up doing. But I could tell he was struggling with opioids right out of the gate.

We talked. He came back the next day. I addressed the opioid news. Kyle ended up staying at camp

freedom for six months. We just moved him in and then he went on to volunteer and then he went

on to work for me. And then from there, he's out in the world now married, working, having a

productive life again. But his life was drastically different than that when we met him eight years

ago. And I'll never forget he's that camp for about two to three weeks during that that six

month stay. And a newspaper journalist was there and said, hey, would you do an interview?

And we said, sure. So we did this interview. And they said, do you have any guests and Kyle was

in the other room? I said, Kyle, would you mind talking to the journalist? So Kyle comes in and he

said something that changed my life. He said three days before I came here, I had my pistol loaded

and in my mouth. And I had already heard that too many times by that point. And it's really heartbreaking

because one suicides too many. But here's what he said next. And this was the change point for me

where everything became very real. He said, and I even failed at that. So the greatest decision he

had ever made in his life to not squeeze the trigger. He viewed as just another failure in a

litany of failures, which he thought everything he'd done since he got out of the service was just

a failure. And that really exposed me to the depth of what we would be dealing with. Since that time,

we've had over 18,000 guests, disabled veterans, first responders, and their family members

on the grounds of camp freedom from 48 states. It is amazing what happens. And we watched these

men and women find purpose, hope, and mission again. And they realize that there's life to be lived.

And there's hope out there. And there's an opportunity for them not only to live, but to excel.

And we watch lives, we radically changed sauce. So how do you work with these people? He says,

is it all hunting? Is it fishing? Is it a combination of a variety of experiences? So we do

outdoor adventures. So we hike, bike, walk, fish, hunt, shoot, cross country, ski, snow shoe. I mean,

literally whatever it takes, we just built an 1,800 yard range, which you need to come see. It is

unbelievable. That's a little longer than we need for our boat. Yeah, it is. We have a liberty

bell out there at 1776 yards. So it's cool stuff. What we do is we know the activity needs to be

something they love. Because if the men and women love the activity, that activity could become

something that could be part of their healing process. But the activity alone is not enough. It's

the relationships. And so they're building relationships with other guests and with our staff.

And through those relationships and the outdoor activity, period of period interaction,

it turns into camaraderie. The moment they give us trust. And from there, there's no limitation

on the healing process that takes place. And ultimately, in all of that, we know that the Lord is

the creator of everything we're experiencing in the outdoors. And that's where the answer really

lies. And it's just, it's awesome to watch lives be transformed. Yeah, that's an awesome work that

you guys are doing. I really appreciate that. You know, I mean, it's not anything like I talk about

at Polher regularly, but like we have a big military component in my family. My dad's a retired

lieutenant colonel. My brother was a Marine. My son right now is a contracted OOTC at the

Citadel. So I mean, this stuff gets me. I get choked up even hearing me talk about it because I

just know how important it is and change for you. You're around all this. You're a young guy.

You're seeing these guys coming out of the military. The sacrifices that they've made.

What kind of an impact does it have on you watching all this and thinking, how is this going to change

how I live my life or what I want to do? Yeah, definitely. It's special to see everything that

happens at Camp Freedom and watch people's lives get truly saved and see everything. So it's awesome.

Yeah, I'm a softie for this stuff. It helps me out. Well, here's the thing. I wake up every day

and I say I have the greatest job in the world and people think I say that because we do really

cool things. You know, we get to do great things. In fact, we just built a program that in 2014,

I did one time and then couldn't figure out how to navigate it until this past year. We're

actually taking veterans on a scholarship to South Africa after they take their course in Colorado

for the Colorado outdoor adventure guide school on hunting exotics. Yeah, we take them to Africa

and we have a donor that donates so they can go there and give them a practical life changing. But

that's a side note. So it was that to lead them towards employment and filling in the end because

you know, the hunting industry, we need people. I mean, there's not an outfitter I talk to. They don't

get the U.S., it's hard to find a good guy and it's even harder to keep them. Yeah. So now you get a

military guy or a first responder who already understands service. They love the outdoors. You

get them trained and man, they're great employees. They're just awesome employees. So we're working

that aspect also. But the great thing is I have this great job because I wake up and I get to serve

true American heroes every day and we use the word hero a little lightly. You know, a hero to

me is not a rock star. It's not a movie star. It's not an athlete. A hero to me is somebody who

signed a dotted line to say I will run towards danger. Not only will I not run away from it,

I will run to it and I get to serve those incredible men and women every single day. Like literally

here at this event, I have talked to so many people that have been impacted by camp freedom

and by what's happened there either directly because they've been here, you know, they've been

to camp rather or because their family member has been to camp and it's just so rewarding because

we played this small role in watching their lives transform. And none of that happens without the

bucket, the bucket birds hire me and saying, here's the opportunity. Here's a blank slate essentially,

let's build this. And it's just incredible when you see all these different aspects of life come

together to an opportunity to serve other people, true American heroes. So you have obviously

a lot of bow hunting as part of this, do you need more support from like the archery industry,

from individual bow hunters and how can people, you know, maybe help to be a part of what you guys

are doing? Yeah, so every year we do 33 four day one on one guided veteran first responder hunt.

I mean, it's a lot of hunt. And obviously in Pennsylvania, you know, with our regulations,

we have six weeks of bow hunting soon to be seven of every we'll see, but six weeks of bow hunting

and then we have two weeks essentially of rifle hunting. And so we're doing three to four hunters

every week during that archery season. And it's incredible because people will say to me things

like, how can a hunt change somebody's life? And my answer is how can't it? You know, you take

somebody and we really target people who don't have opportunity veterans and first responders that

don't have opportunity who have never hunted. So we're bringing them in, teaching them how to shoot

a vertical bow or a crossbow, teaching them how to shoot traditional archery equipment and then

taking them out and hunting that same week. And it's awesome to watch what happens. The testimonials

that come out are our hunts because you're spending four days with somebody. You cannot spend four days,

you know, 12 hours a day in a blind and not have impact on each other's lives. And so we definitely

need support. You know, we need equipment. We need financial support. We need people to get behind us

on the ground and volunteer for all of the hunting aspects. But for what we do every year, we've had

over 41,000 hours of volunteer hours long. That's how you get into that. I feel like we need to do

something with bow hunter. We need to highlight some of these people. We need to get some of these guys

over and film one of these hunts. Let's do it. Let's tell this story about how you're your impact in

these people's lives. I would love that because again, what we're seeing is those who have been through

trauma or transitional issues find victory again, find hope again, find mission again. And the story

needs to be told. It just needs to be told. We do it all. Women's Week every year with during both

season. It's incredible. I mean, it's just what happens there is so amazing. Well, when you talk

about supporting cam freedom, this is going to bring us into the last segment where we're going to

highlight this guy. And there's some things that he does. Some incredible talent and skill that

have helped to raise a lot of money for your organization. Right? So chase. Yeah. Okay. Before you open

this case, don't open it yet. Okay. Chase, Chase is a knife builder. But like he showed me this knife.

This is like something that is unbelievable. Thank you. We're reminding you guys. He's 17 years old.

Yeah. You just got. How did you get interested in building knives? So actually, there's a guy that

makes them for camp freedom. Sean and he does great work and originally started. So I'd see his knives

for sale and they'd be around $400, $500. And I was like, that's a lot of money. I don't want to pay

$500 for a knife. So I watched a few YouTube videos, bought some equipment and slowly kept investing.

And the knives turned out terrible at first. The first knives I was doing were terrible.

You still have them though. Yes, I do. Yeah, I kept the first three or four that I have. And then

I started selling them. People wanted to pay $20 for the knife. So I was like, sure, that's a lot.

I'll sell them. And I went from there. And now two years later, I'm selling knives for much more.

I've raised over 62,000 for charities. 62,000. Yes. Yeah. Matt, you were telling me a couple of

the most recent knives that he made. You auction them off, right? Yes. And what did they go for?

The last one went for $15,500. Yes. Tell about that. Yeah. So that knife. So it was Theodore Roosevelt's

Rough Rider Booy knife design. And the handle on it was wood from the tree that Theodore Roosevelt

planted in front of Sagamore Hill. And it had a very nice Damascus. It was Damascus core with copper

cladding. And that knife raised $15,500 for camp freedom. So yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah.

So go ahead and open this up. I want I want people to get a good look. Tell us about this.

Yeah. Another one. Yes. I do. Yeah. It's I think it's in here actually. So that knife there.

The handle is mammoth tusk in the front part of it with carbon fiber. And then it has true stone

spacers. And the blade is nitro V stainless steel core with copper cladding.

And you do all everything. So yeah. So I'll buy just a bar of steel, the billet of steel,

the billet of Damascus. And then I'll take it. I'll shape the billet or the, yeah, the billet.

I'll do all the profiling, grind the bevels, hands and the blade, etch the Damascus, glue the handle

up, shape all the handle, polish the handle, sharpen the knife, laser engrave the knife. So it's quite

the process. But how long does that take you from start to start? So that particular knife right

there takes around 30 to 35 hours. It all depends on the size of the knife. If it's Damascus or not,

there's a lot of different factors about how long it takes. But yeah, that one's around 30 to 30 hours.

This thing is awesome. Grab that other one because that other one. Yes. Maybe just because it's a

little bigger. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really, really an eye catcher. And especially what you do with the blade.

Yeah. So this one. Okay. Go ahead. Or you can do it. Yeah. It's really good. Hold it.

Shutting it here. That thing is incredible. Yeah. So this one here is ADCRV2 high carbon steel core

with a copper clouding and it has nickel shims. And then that handles mammoth husk in the front

of it with carbon fiber in the back. And that carbon fiber actually has copper specs in it

to kind of go along with the blade and kind of match with the blade. And then it has, yeah.

Where do you go like to the local store to get mammoth dust? So there's a guy in Virginia actually

that does that does the mammoth husk. And he puts so you'll put the handles together if you'll

he'll actually glue the handles together. And then all by him is just a big piece of handle. And

then I'll drill the holes in it for the pins or shape it to the knife. I'll glue it to the knife.

And then I'll do all the finishing and polishing. So yeah. This will be spectacular. Yes.

He's made a knife out of two out of one of the leg bones of a giraffe that took an African

Yes. Yeah. And I have some from the giraffe that I got in South Africa. I have the bones coming

back. So I'm going to make a bunch more knives out of that. No bones smells a lot when you work with

it and grind into it. It smells terrible. But it looks nice when it finishes. So yeah. This is really

impressive. I've been he's making me feel relatively unannomable. I feel my way off. All right,

let me ask you this chase. I assume, you know, this is a great you could probably do this

whole time. But I bet you. Yes. Some other ideas. So I always like to ask young guys like,

what's your what's your goals? What's your goals? So right now. So I'm a senior in high school. I'm

not planning on going to college as of now. I think I'm going to keep going with the knife company.

There's so we have a sporting play range also in the I Valley. So my brother Hunter, he's he's

working at the sporting play range right now. And we'll see if there's something there in the future

or camp freedom or whatever. But right now I'm going to keep going with the knife business and see

where it takes me and go. You're actually turning. I think that's the plan. What's the name of it?

A custom knives by CW. So yeah. Awesome. Yeah. How many knives did you build this year?

This year, I think I did around 30, 38 for like main like custom ones. And then I've done about

15 other ones that have just been I've made and sold them individually. And then probably

done around five for for fundraisers. So yeah. So we're going to see this guy. You're going to have

like Benchmade knives. Yes. We're here behind us. It's going to be custom knives by CW. Yes.

Yeah. Is that W? Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, I almost my middle name. So that's just someone had CB

custom knives or something like that. So I wanted to do CW. So that way there was no confusion. And

it was. Yeah. You can't be I'm CB. So you got to be exact. Right? Yeah. There you go. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Guys, this was a fun one show. Yeah. Thank you. I was saying we got to get chased.

You can get him into the traditional archery. He'll be building custom broadets. I'll tell you

that. Let's do it. You lost. Yeah. I can see you do some for sure. Yeah. It was so fun. It was so

fun. Like you're an interesting guy. You do a little bit of everything. This guy you bring along.

I didn't even know like, oh, yeah, this is the NRA president's son. And then I had that

tie and just have haven't been from the area. Pennsylvania is a crazy state. I tell everybody

there's no state like Pennsylvania to produce sportsmen for hungry to go somewhere else for a

better quality. Yes. So we export people to Africa and the Midwest and out West because

because we're all on top of each other by phone. You're right. Yeah. You know, it's really

cool to about Pennsylvania and hunting. This year on Camp Freedom, we've managed our grounds now

for eight years. And on our 2350 acres open, which we took a 152 white tail this year.

So that wasn't so really. That is a giant. Yeah.

Yes. Eastern Pennsylvania. I found it. Yeah. 52. I mean, I couldn't believe it.

Well, that's a, that's a festival. That's in your management.

And Jason. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you what, like you got a gold

mine there. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Again, it was, it was a good time.

Everybody, I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. So last of our,

try them for it of episodes here from the 20th to 6th shot show. So I'm glad we could squeeze you

guys in. And we will see everybody next time on the poll on our podcast. Thanks for downloading the

bow hunter podcast, all bow hunting all the time. Pick up the latest issue of bow hunter magazine

on your local newsstand or connect with us online at bowhunter.com.