Forgiveness is a journey – Dave Ryerson

0:00Hi, I'm Bill Arnold. Thank you for listening to this podcast. There are many more podcasts available at myfaithradio.com. Your support makes this possible. Thank you. And now the show, that's only half the price of those brand name shows. Oh, don't you know it's the Bill Arnold show. It's Bill. And a warm welcome to the Bill Arnold show. So glad we can spend some time together today. We're going to talk about forgiveness. And that is always a topic that I love to revisit. My guest is Pastor Dave Ryerson. I'm speculating that in the course of this next hour, he will take us to Colossians 313 that says,

1:01bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. Now, I don't know if he's going to go there, but that's just a thought. He might pick that verse out because it is a powerful verse in Colossians and we are commanded to forgive one another. And that is not an easy thing for a lot of us to do. So we're going to talk about that. If you have any questions or comments throughout the hour, let us know because forgiveness is a difficult subject and topic. You can send your comments or questions over to 877-933-2484. That is a text only. Dave is an associate pastor. He is a licensed counselor and he's a former radio pro. So he's got it all. Dave, so glad to have you back. Bill, thank you, sir. I do have to ask your forgiveness because I'm not going to be using Colossians today. Dave, I was just rolling the dice thinking you might use that, but if you don't, you don't.

2:01So this is the problem with being a pastor. I'm going to come clean every now and then like somebody will bring something up and you're like, oh, man, I should have used that verse. That's even better. Yeah, I know. That happens to me a lot. Well, what I actually, it's interesting, the verse that I use and you're going to think, well, what does this have to do with forgiveness? To me, I want to go with that. I want to take you all there today. It's Romans 520 and Paul writes this, now the law came to increase the trespass, but we're sin increase, grace abounded all the more. And to me, as I want to talk about forgiveness today, forgiveness is a journey. Bill, you hit on and thankful that you hit on that, that forgiveness is a mandate in scripture, but it's a journey to get there. It doesn't come easy. And so I want to share with you guys kind of how I came about because what a lot of this is tying in is a lot of my counseling background that I've started over the last couple of years

3:02as you sit with people and you realize the hurt that a lot of times people are in counseling all honesty because something has hurt them and usually another person. Sure, it might be anxiety, it might be depression, but those manifest itself because usually a hurt has happened to them from somebody else and so how do we get there? And as I bring that up, I want to put out this initial warning that that really put me kind of on this path of I had done a sermon a while back on forgiveness and what got me started thinking about this. So I'm going to take you guys a little story, something happened to me not long ago. And it's not about forgiveness, but it flipped the light bulb. So I had I was preaching one Sunday and you know, you're tired when you get done preaching. We do three services here and so when you're done, you get home and you're like, okay, I'm ready for it now. And I started taking an app and it's one of those those days when you want to take an app and you can't because your phones blowing up with all these work texts and all these things are going on and you're like, just give me some peace people and then finally peace happened,

4:06right? It happens. The phone stops buzzing. Everything goes quiet and I'm like, I'm going to close my eyes and the doorbell rings. And I'm like, oh, you got to be kidding me. And fortunately, my wife got up to go grab it because with the mood I was in, if it would have been little girl-scaling girl-scout cookies, either would have probably just started screaming at them or I would have bought the entire inventory. It would have been one or the other, okay? And so I was glad to hear my wife go get the door. And you guys will know this tone. You've heard it before. I can't hear what she and the person at the door are saying, but I hear an immediate suddenness and seriousness in her tone. And we've all heard it. You'd all know it if you're like, oh, wait, something's going on, okay? And so I hear her say, let me go get Dave. And she comes upstairs and I go downstairs and there's this younger guy at the door. And it's the son of my next door neighbor, Jeff. And I had met Jeff the previous fall. And our neighborhood was doing a big neighborhood gathering and everybody sits

5:07out and we'll kind of, you know, just talk about life, get to know each other. And they were talking about Jeff. And I didn't know Jeff at all. And he comes out finally and he makes a B line right towards me. And I've never met him. And he says, you're a pastor, right? And I said, yeah. And he says, hey, can we do communion? Would you give me communion? I'm like, of course, why? Well, he's going to Mayo in a couple days for four months, extensive blood treatment, cancer stuff. And so anyway, so I get to know Jeff. I brought him a communion. We met a few times. And then he came back after four months and I brought him communion a few times and he'd even sent my wife a text one day and said, hey, can Dave bring me communion? And I'm really busy. And I haven't brought him communion. And every time I drive by his house and the way home, I got to bring him communion. I've got one of the community cups of the homes ready to go. And I just got to get over the one of these days. And one of these days kept being another one of these days and another day and then a week. And I'm you know, it got to be a long time. Well, this young man at the door was Jeff's son saying he had passed away unexpectedly. And I thought to myself, man, Dave, you know better than that. You know

6:11life is short. And for some dumb reason, we all know life is short. Yet we all think like there's plenty of time. You know what I mean? Like we're all like, I'll get around to that. Well, if we know it short, why would you say that unless you know when you're going to get around to it? And so here I now have, and I'm going to leave it on my cupboard sitting there that communion cup as a reminder always to me that life is short. Don't assume you'll always have time. And that can't be thinking I'm like, and I don't. I'm very blessed and fortunate in this, but it doesn't mean that I don't again sit with a lot of people that do that have been hurt by somebody that have been hurt by family members. Now, mine was just to fail. You're honestly as a pastor and his friend to go over and see Jeff. But for a lot of other people, you've got somebody in your life, like I said, whether it's a family member, a long lost friend that that may be wrong to you at one point in time and you're not letting go of that. One of these days, I'll get around to it, right? Guys, you don't know. You don't know when that day is going to come. And so it hit me with that. And I just really

7:14started working on this. How many people, like I'm just going to have a regret that man, I had a a neighbor that was a good guy that just really, and I enjoyed my time with him on a communion. I filled him in that. But imagine if you have a family member that an estranged parent or sibling and you haven't talked to for 20 years and something comes up and they pass away, you're not going to be at ease with that. Oh, Dave, I just got a pit in my stomach, hearing that story. And that is a very vivid reminder of have a sense of urgency to have, to reconnect some bridges that might have been blown up. And that's the key. And so what I want to do today is kind of why I call it a journey, why I chose that verse. If you know, we're sin abounds, grace abounds all the more, because it's what, when somebody hurts us, it's a sin they have committed against us. And how do we let that grace abound? And I think it's a journey to get there. And so I'm going to play into that

8:14now and build into that because we have things in life that we'll never forget. And a lot of times if somebody's hurt us, we always remember those things. You know, we remember the good and the bad, you know, we have the funny things in life that have happened and burned in our brain forever. Let me do a quick radio story if you guys don't mind back when I first started in radio. This is secular radio. And I'm a new guy and I'm in small town, America. That's how it always works. And I'm brand new and I'm excited and my station had done a big contest and a giveaway. And my boss said, okay, Dave, I was done the afternoon show and he's like, you know, here's the winner. And why don't you call him and, you know, record the interaction and then we'll play it on the air and people can hear his excitement and we'll run it as what's called promos, you know, throughout the week. And all right, here we go. So I called the guy up, hey, is this, you know, so and so build the entire conversation. All the guy did was meow at me. He did what? Meow, like a cat. Meow. I'd be like, hey, is this, you know, Bill Arnold, meow. And I'm like,

9:16did you enter a contest, meow? I'm painful. Like, I'll never forget that. Okay. I had another radio story. I'll share it right. I'll never forget this one. This was just a bizarre incident because we have things that we remember in our lives. And bizarre incident, it's one morning. I was doing morning show back when I was in Christian radio of phone rings and a guy calls and he says, hey, I don't think you should be using that kind of language on a Christian station. And my coach and I are just baffled. We kind of look at each other and I'm like, um, what language? Sure. And he's like, no, that you know what you said. That's very inappropriate. And we don't know. You know, and and folks that may not know in radio, you you air check, you're always what's called recording your show. And you know, we're kind of going back and forth a bit. And I'm like, we didn't say any swear words. This is a Christian show. I think we were talking about like praising God even whatever. And he was insistent. And I'm like, do you have another different channel? Absolutely not. This is my car radio. Nobody ever touches it. I mean, he's doubling down and and I said, well, I'm going to listen to my stuff and you know, we'll talk

10:19later. And I go back and listen, not us where we're not at all. Totally clean. And it was so funny because like 20 minutes later, the phone rings. And it's this guy. And I'm like, you know, and I say the station name and need an all he says he goes, oh, my kids have changed the station. It wasn't you guys. And hangs up like he's still mad at us for something we didn't do. It was just the weirdest thing. You know, so so things like this are burned in my mind. And I kind of got a little goofy here because there was one more I want to share that burned in my mind about this. And this ties into that forgiveness point and why we need to act now. Again, back when I was in Christian radio. And I was talking in the air about the importance of forgiveness. And this is when I was in seminary and and Bill, I'd so appreciative what you had said when you started out the show with the mandates that scripture is that we aren't to forgive others. It's a mandate in scripture. And I so I'm talking about this on the air and the phone rings. And I I answer the phone. And I'm not kidding you. The guy starts out the colony says,

11:23that's the problem with Christians. It's always about forgiveness. And I'm thinking to myself, my thought must be, okay, well, this guy must not be a Christian though it's weird that he's listening to a Christian music station. But okay. And then so I kind of started explaining Christianity and I'm like, well, you know, the essence of Christianity. And he cuts me off. A really terse cut off. And he says, I know, I'm a Christian. So now I'm confused because that's the problem with Christians. It's all about forgiveness. But he's a Christian and he's angry about it. And so we're kind of going back and forth. I'm trying to to gauge where this conversation is going like what's going on. And eventually in the middle of the conversation, it comes out that his wife had left him the day before for another man. And in that moment, he doesn't want to forgive Bill. He's a angry. It hurts. And unfortunately for me, you know, he never called back and followed up later. I'd love to hear where he is in that journey. And I hope and pray that in that moment,

12:23of course, forgiveness is the last thing you want to hear about or think about because the wound that he had suffered that this person whom he had pledged his life to had left him for somebody else. Of course, he's going to feel that way. But I'd love to know like, you know, friend, did you find healing and peace later on in life? Because I would be so sad to think that he's still walking in that kind of anger. And again, understanding empathetic in that moment. Of course, he's feeling that way. But if he's still hanging on to that or anybody listening today that's hanging on to even a wounding that serious, it's still harming you. And so that's why I referred to it. And I chose this verse as you did. Yeah, Bill, you're versus a tundra is 10 times better, right? But the reason I like they were sin increased grace abounded all the more because grace is the solution to the forgiveness that we can't find that we struggle to find. It's all about getting to the point where it's about grace. And man, that's hard to get to, okay?

13:25Dave, the idea of not forgiving is not only against what God wants for us to do, but it can also start to become part of your identity because you're so filled with constant anger and rage. And possibly for the rest of your life. And I love that point that you said it's part of your identity. It does. It transforms you of that's who you become. And nobody wants to get to that point. And you never see it coming either. You know, it doesn't just one day of flip a switch. I'm going to be angry and bitter the rest of my life. It's that slow poison that eats away at you. And so to me, really, there is only one solution that will free you from that. But it's a process to get there. It's a journey to get there because it does take you realizing the part that you have to play in this and what you do for it. But it's for your own good. So I will tell this much. If anybody's listening right now and they're struggling, I don't want to hear this. I don't want to hear this because I get it. I'm not going to sit here for the next 40 minutes and lecture you why you need to forgive and you're bad for not. The goal is hopefully to help walk you there

14:28to see the importance of what it is of how it frees you and allows you back to be a bill. As you said, the person that God designed you to be, not with the bitterness is turning you into. All right, Dave, we're going to take a little break. And why I think we need to do a five-person survey. Okay. Is there some unforgiveness you're holding on to and have been holding on to for a while? Just a simple yes or no? Simple yes or no. I'm curious to see if the listening family is holding on to something and have been holding on to something for a while. Maybe at the end of this hour, we're going to get some release. Yeah. So if you have been or haven't text yes or no to that question, the text line is 877-933-2484. Is there something you've been holding on to that you need to either forgive or let go of today? Some unforgiveness. Yeah. Yeah. And answers are already starting to come in. Okay. All right. So we'll take a break and be right back with Pastor Dave Ryerson. We're talking about forgiveness.

15:40It is my deepest desire that you take the very first step of faith by placing your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. If you've got questions about what it means to begin a relationship with Jesus, text the word faith to 4124. I guess today as Pastor Dave Ryerson, we're talking about forgiveness. Dave, the results are already in the five-person survey. The first five responses were yes, I have things I'm not forgiving or things I've been holding on to. How did I phrase that question? What? That was kind of is there forgiveness you need to let go of or offer essentially? Yeah. Unforgiveness. Yeah. So there's there's there's folks holding on to stuff out there. Yeah. And again, it's hard. I understand that you would sit with counseling. There's there's so much of that. And the steps that I think that I believe get us there is the first step in this

16:40guys realizing that first up you are forgiven. We have to start with that that we've been forgiven by God. And I'm going to let's scripture speak for itself here. James 1.9. And this is our first James 1.9. A lot of churches use this in their confessionals too. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all on righteousness. So everybody listening today, I need you to understand the first thing on the journey of forgiveness is understand that God has forgiven you of all of your sins. That when you go to him asking forgiveness, again, he is faithful and just to forgive us from all our unrighteousness. Like it's not just some. And I know it's a maybe that's a hard pill to swallow that God can forgive all of our sins, especially if you've got some kind of nasty stuff hidden away in that internal vault that you keep inside. And we've got that that nothing's ever coming out of here. And you're like,

17:40there's no way God could forgive me or maybe you're like that gentleman that's that was really hurt by his wife leaving him. And the thought of forgiveness isn't there, but understand that no matter what you're holding or what somebody's done against you, God has forgiven it when it's asked for and sought after. And so the first thing I think we do have to address always is though for those of you that kind of have that inner vault of of thing that you have hidden there there that just fills you with shame and remorse. It's that that vault internally, those secrets that are locked up so tight that I think, honestly, like most of us, we'd rather give our nuclear launch codes to the Chinese than we would like spill that vault even to our closest friend, right? We're like, no, nobody, nobody can know about this. And I'm going to tell you something right now that you are going to hate to hear. If you've got that inner vault that you're like, no, nobody's ever getting in there. Bad news for you. God is fully aware of it. He knows. He knows what's in there. He saw it when it happened. He knows she's still hanging on to it. But I'm going to tell you something you need to hear. If you have repented of that sin, if you hate that that part of your

18:45life ever existed, and if you so desire instead to walk in a manner in which God has called you to walk, you've asked for forgiveness of that. That sin has been forgiven that. I don't care how deep and ugly it is. God's grace and love and mercy far outweigh the ugliness of that sin. Scripture does not have asterisk in there that say, well, everything but that sin. It's washed clean. The blood of Jesus washes a clean. Your faith in Jesus does that. So you know, first and foremost that he's washed you of your sins. I want to I'm going to do like a quick one minute divergent just because sometimes we can hear about when I said you're washed free of all your sins. What about when Jesus says that thing called the unpardonable sin? I talked about in Matthew 12 and Mark 3. And this isn't really what we're going on today. I just want to clear that up if you've ever heard that before. And you're like, well, what if I've ever committed that? Okay, well, what the unpardonable sin is and this is called blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. And here's why it's considered the only unpardonable sin. You see in the context of how Jesus said at the religious leaders at the time, we're attributing Jesus' work to that of Satan. But it goes deeper

19:49than that. What it is is they are refusing to see the work of God and they're doing so because they had hardened their heart from seeing God. They had rejected the Holy Spirit and the work of the Holy Spirit. And so if you have rejected the Holy Spirit, if you've hardened your heart to the Spirit and the Spirit is the one that draws you to Christ, then how can he lead you to the only one who can ever forgive you of your sins? And so that's where it is why it's considered the unpardonable sin because without the blood of Christ's washing of your sins, you can never be forgiven. But if you have rejected the Holy Spirit, the Spirit can't draw you to knowing Christ. And thus that's why it's called the unpardonable sin because ultimately what it is is you're actually not even ever asking for forgiveness. You have no interest in it. Good example, this had a friend that asked me one time as a teenager. He had a rough upbringing. A dad was an alcoholic and mom just avoided all of it by working 24-7. So he had a very dysfunctional home life. He was 16 years old. He's angry at the world and he says, you know, I kind of knew about

20:50faith and I knew about the unpardonable sin. So I prayed one day. I said, God, I want nothing to do with you ever. I reject you in your Holy Spirit. And he's asking me this later in life. He's like, man, did I commit that sin? And I told him. I said, friend, listen, I'm not God. But again, the point is it's the Spirit that's drawing you to God. And so I believe if you truly rejected the Holy Spirit, you're not going to be wanting to connect with God. And he's active in his faith and was just more lamenting that. And I said, God understands when you're angry and when you're struggling with life, the Psalms are loaded with our struggles in life. And he would see that. So a rejection of a Holy Spirit, if you're ever wondering, have I ever done that? It's you literally closing your heart off to what the Spirit could do to lead you to Jesus. So anyway, I wanted to just put that out there in case somebody was wondering because it is important to know your sins have been forgiven. If you ask forgiveness, you will receive that. And I want everybody to know that part as a pastor that's always our heart. I was joke around. If I ever get, you know,

21:50somebody that comes up to me and says, well, pastor, I've done too much. I can never be forgiven. I want to smack that person and be like, yes, you have been forgiven. But guy is the funny thing is I go home and I look in the mirror. I'm like, there's no way to have God forgives you. It's like, I've found the asterisk conscripture that applies to me, right? We still struggle with that as people. We struggle with that, that sin nature that we have and the shame that we have. And if I love Christ and he's so good to me, why do I act this way? Things like that. But that's the first part. Is I want friends you to know on this journey that that you are forgiven of your sins. And it's important that you have to know that too. Now, the second part that I want to share in this is this much, okay? And why I have the assurance of God's sin and why God's forgiveness rescinds and why you have it too. Second Peter 3.9, just taking part of the verse here, not wishing that any would perish, but that all would reach up repentance that's talking about God, all right? How God is patient towards us, not wishing that

22:51any would perish. In 1 Timothy 2.4, it says about the Lord, he desires all people would be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. And Ezekiel 33 11, God says this much, he says, turn back, turn from your evil ways. I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked. It's him, my point with this is God isn't looking to punish us, okay? He's not desiring that people would walk this path and he can smite us down in Matthew 18 12 to 14. We know this when Jesus says about the man that goes after the lost sheep. What do you think of a man as a hundred sheep and one of them is going to stray? Does he not leave the 99 in the mountain and go in search of the one that went astray? So this is God's love for you, saying that in this part, if he finds it, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than the 99 that never went away. So it is not the will of my father in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. And I bring up how amazing God's love is, how precious every last sheep is to him,

23:53that you have to realize that because the second step of the journey is if you have a God who desires that numb with perish, a God who goes after even the one lost sheep and celebrates when it's found, a God that puts his own son in the cross to ensure that we can be with him, how then can you justify not forgiving somebody who's wrong to you? Amazing. And so that's that amazing point. Yeah, really good. And so in knowing his tremendous love for us, it's like, well, we kind of have to apply that to ourselves, all right? And so if you know about, there's a parable in scripture, about this kind of guy that owes the king and really frankly, an unpayable kind of debts. And the king calls him in and the guy follows it his knees and is like, you know, please forgive me and the king takes pity on him and forgives him. And then, you know, that same guy leaves the the palace and he sees, you know, his buddy that owes him 20 bucks and he, you know, throttles him and give me back my money and has the guy thrown in jail. And, you know, we always kind of laugh about in that parable about, you know, how it's

24:57supposed to be about God's forgiveness, how great it is and how petty we are to not forgive. But stop and think about that parable for a second. Why would the king continue loaning money to a guy that clearly hasn't even begun paying it back and never could? Well, who's the king of that? It's God. Meaning, that's again, how God's graces. It's this unconditional grace that he shows to us. He doesn't ask for payment in return. He continues to pour his grace on us. So back to that text that I mentioned, Romans 520, we're sin increase grace abounded all the more. The God is so amazing in that part that he's forgiven us of our sins, but that we have to realize that forgiveness that he gives to us is expected of us as well. It is a mandate in scripture. So important to remember that. And so geez, what's the going to bill? No, no, go ahead, continue. Well, I realize it's rambling forever. I mean, so I didn't want to cut you guys off.

25:57I like when you ramble. It's always good rambling. There you go. I appreciate that. But, you know, if you look at God doesn't hold debts to us. Grace is this continued, you know, the agape love, the endless love that God continues to give. And so his grace isn't something that's meant to be hoarded. It's this abundant spring and it's supposed to flow through us. And so if God shows you more grace from your sin, what would it look like for you to show more grace to those who have wronged you? But it's easy to preach it. It's not easy to hear it. And really, I don't want, you know, the the Pat answer to be so just forgive as if it's that easy. A lot of us know that, you know, I'd be curious. Do you guys have a percentage or did you cap it off at five? Is that what you're saying about folks that said yes and no? There were a couple more that came in, but it was still yes. Yeah, everyone was yes. Yeah. So we've all got that. And listen, I know those folks right now, I don't know them personally,

27:02but I know for a fact, if they're listening to a Christian program because they know about Jesus and they know about God's forgiveness and they know the call to forgive. And they're admitting right there. I struggle with it because it is hard. And so if somebody comes up and says, you just need to forgive, we're not understanding why it's hard to do. We need to understand how to overcome what it is that's making it hard to forgive. And I think it's it's that that right to understanding of what it means to forgive and how that looks. And I'll be honest, as a pastor and as a counselor, I get asked that question every time when somebody's come in because they've been wounded by, you know, a spouse or a family member, whatever, they'll always ask, well, what does forgiveness look like? Because if I was to say to you guys right now, Bill, or why it can, how would you guys define what forgiveness looks like if somebody has grievously wounded you? Boy, that's a tough question. There would be humility and there would be a straightforward

28:05apology without a lot of, a lot of things surrounding that. I'm sorry, but I think I'd skip the butt part. Yeah, that wouldn't be as good. Those three letters negated real quickly. That says a lot. And so what I want to do guys is when we come back for this break here is I want to hit on the main things that I have studied that Christians wrestle with about forgiveness and why it's so hard to do so that this isn't just a, you need to forgive kind of radio program. We're just slapping people on the wrist, but instead saying, hey, I understand this is an obstacle in the way. Here's how you can see this differently. Yeah. All right, Dave, let's just before we go to break, let's say, I owe you $1,000 and you've been asking me over and over and over when am I, when am I going to pay back and I keep coming up with one lame excuse after another. And then I say, let's meet for coffee and the night before we meet for coffee, you win the lottery and $100 million is wired into your

29:08bank account. How much do you care about me not being able to pay back that $1,000? Right. But yet I should still care just equally. Well, I mean, you care about me as a person, but let's just say that we have that kind of grace put into our bank account every day. Yes. And so why are we not forgiving for a small amount of, well, small or large because God commands us to forgive. And we have grace poured into our account every day. Man, that was really brilliant. So we'll come back guys and Bill's going to share with us then more about how we can forgive. Oh, I think I want to talk for another 10 minutes here before we go to break, but I'm just kidding. Yes, that was great. You're a radio pro. You know when we're supposed to go to break, Dave Ryerson is our guest. We're going to continue our discussion on forgiveness. If you have a question or comment, it's so welcome. 877-933-2484. We'll be right back.

30:11I'm back with Pastor Dave Ryerson. He is the associate pastor at Abiding Savior. And he's been there since 2021. He's also a licensed counselor, a pastor, marriage and family therapist, former radio professional. He's got it all. And we're talking today about forgiveness. And before we get to your wonderful content that's coming up, David, I got a text that said, it's easy for me to forgive things done to me, but I struggle with wrong doings to others. Is there something your guests can comment on? Yeah, let me get to that in a bit. Yeah. Because I want to stay on the journey steps, but that's a great question. I love that one. And I haven't actually been asked that one a lot. But ultimately, we'll get there. But dynamite question. Yeah, I love those when you're like, oh, that was really good. So when we're talking on the steps and the journeys of forgiveness, and like I said, there's a kind of that question. We'll do first when somebody's wounded us. And one of the

31:14main things that I always hear, and I guarantee you guys have heard this from others too, though, people will say, well, I want to forgive, but I can't forget. And I want to just, I'm going to struggle forgiving the person that ever coined the phrase, forgiven for gets because it's such a flawed platitude. I'm like, what were you doing? Because it's actually confusing people. Guys, forgiving does not mean forgetting. Okay. The two are two entirely different meanings. What did Jesus tell Thomas? He told them to touch his scars. And what are scars? They are literal reminders of the times that you have been hurt. So we can't say forget because you have a scar that shows you were hurt. But guys, what are scars? They're also marks that show that you've been healed. And so forgiveness is how you view your scars. You don't forget that your hurts. It's what you do is you realize, but I've been healed from it. And you can't heal without forgiveness

32:18because when you don't forgive, it's you keeping that wound open over and over and over again. Because I'm angry, but I'm upset about it. And so it's still stirring in you and it's still brewing in you. And it's keeping that wound wide open. But it's there. You're not going to forget it. But the healing says, but I have recovered and moved past it because for whatever reasons, whatever the thing was. And so that's the thing when we hear that part is understand you're not going to forget. But what you should focus on is the healing that you've done and how you've grown stronger since the wounding happened. Well, then that can lead other people to asking this. Well, doesn't that make me a doormat? You know, am I allowing other people to walk all over me? I just always turn the other cheek. Again, that's a wrong understanding of forgiveness because forgiveness doesn't mean that you're a doormat. You just get pummeled all the time and walked all over. Forgiveness means and it has to do with you being in control of how you allow yourself to feel about the offense that was done against you. I think this is one of the, when I was putting

33:20together the sermon a while back, I came across this verse and I loved it. I was like, whoa, that was really good because guess what? This is God describing how he chose to feel about the offenses against him. Isaiah 43.25. This is God speaking. He says, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake. And I will not remember your sins. What are your God saying there? For my sake, he blots out our transgressions. I don't want to sit there guys and keep stewing on these things. God has even seen that right there that he is choosing to not remember them. It doesn't mean he forgets if he doesn't happen choosing to not remember. It doesn't mean you forgotten about it. It's choosing to not remember it against the person that brought it up against you. And so if God, excuse me, if God doesn't say I blot out your transgressions for my own sake and I will not remember your sins. If he's like, oh, I'm hanging on to those, all of us are in constant fear than of God's wrath and his destructive power because he's choosing to hang on to it,

34:21but instead he doesn't because he's so good and he's so gracious that again, he is choosing to blot them out and to not remember them. Even God is showing us how it looks when we've been wounded before. I choose to not remember it again. Forgiveness thing, I forget about it as if it didn't happen. No, I just choose to not remember it. There's a scar there. I know it happened, but I'm not going to continue to relive it and open it and open it up again. Yeah, I was just going to ask you about that because we can recycle these thoughts and torment ourselves. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. And that's what we do is we torment ourselves. And that's the thing, right? Is if that's our approach to forgiveness, I love one God said, the he who blots out transgressions for my own sake because it's for your own sake when you choose to forgive. What do you want to do with the wrongs that have been committed against you? And I know the human condition wants to believe that somehow, maybe if we hold onto the hurt longing offer, if we wish ill on the other person, then somehow,

35:24we're going to acquire some satisfaction or reprieve. Like, or we think to ourselves, maybe there has to be a limit to forgiveness that's, you know, that we can at some point see the other person suffering. But if you go back to that parable of the unforgiving servant that I mentioned, you know, it was he had his limits. And so he was still angry about it or look at Peter asking this question here in Matthew 1821. It says, then Peter came up and said to him, Lord, how often will my brothers sin against me? And I forgive him as many as seven times. And Jesus said to him, I do not say to you seven times, but seventy seven times. Isn't it interesting? And I'm not saying he was doing this. I maybe the Greek is clear on this. I was no Greek scholar. Trust me. I struggle with comic books. Okay. But what I thought was really interesting in this is depending on the tone of the Greek. And again, I don't know. But is Peter asking for the bare minimum? Because isn't that kind of our human condition? Like,

36:25well, how many times do I forget like seven? I'll do seven, but I'm not going to do it. Like, you almost, is he asking it that way? Or is he asking kind of open ended for Jesus to teach him? I don't know, but knowing the human condition, we're kind of asking for what the bare minimum is. You know, all right, God, tell me how many times I have to forgive because then after that, I'm going to hang on to it. And Jesus is kind of saying there's not. Jesus is challenging. There's no number to it. Because, guys, forgiveness is not an action. It is a heart condition. And one of the most beautiful examples I think of forgiveness is found twice in the Bible two entirely different accounts. Yet you had the same response. Both Jesus on the cross and Stephen as he's being stoned to death. And what do they say? They ask God to forgive their executioners. Forgive them, God, for they do not know what they do. Like, that right there is a reflection of a heart of empathy and compassion for their persecutors. Like, they are not asking for forgiveness. The persecutors aren't. Those are people who even thought their actions were outright

37:27justified. You guys have heard me talk before about Victor Frankolo, this book man searched for meaning and the brilliant psychiatrist that he was and his time in Auschwitz. And he developed this understanding as well that it's a heart condition. And it got to the point where he started actually feeling bad for his captors, realizing they're the ones that were actually in prison. They were in prison in their own hatred and justifying themselves that this kind of behavior towards the Jews was somehow good. And yet Victor Frankolo had the same type of response that Jesus and Stephen had in they don't know what they're doing. I mean, such empathy and compassion. And so it's a heart condition is what forgiveness is. And so when you step into that that pull of empathy, if you will, what you're able to do is you're I doesn't make it right, but you're maybe you're able to understand why that person that hurts you has done it. And that's a big thing towards the journey of forgiveness is not saying I have to do it as a

38:29box of check, but looking at your heart and saying, I need to let go of this because for whatever reason, even they had a reason for it. And the second you can even start feeling bad for that person, it makes a difference. I think a great example of this. And I know you've got people listening that that walk this road right now where you've got somebody in your family. That's an addict. Okay. And that's a big one. If somebody has any kind of an addiction, you probably get to the point where you've just said, I can't do this anymore, right? And that's not a lack of forgiveness. It's an awareness that there's only so much I can take, but you still love that person that's battling the addiction. You you pray for them to be healed. You empathize with the struggle, but you're not going to let them hurt you anymore. So by separating yourself from somebody who's hurting you, not being unnecessarily abused, that doesn't mean it's a lack of forgiveness. That's I'm protecting myself from continually being harmed, but I still love and care for and empathize with the person in their struggle. So that suddenly starts, we start finding that healthy divide

39:31there about I have to protect myself, but in the process of protecting myself, I don't continue to beat myself up or hurt myself. And I go to Paul's words in Romans 12 18, if possible. So as far as it depends on you live peaceably with all. So how do I have peace and empathy is going to be that really big way to do that. And listen, as our culture gets more and more goofy and more and more irrational. And families are ostracizing and condemning each other for different political views or whatever. Like it gets harder and harder to main relationships and family connections, but this is where Paul's words I think are so true just to live peaceful with everybody. And forgiveness is a big part of that. Yeah, you hurt me. I didn't love it. But I've healed from that hurt. I understand why you thought it was necessary. Again, I didn't agree with it, but I just choose to have that forgiveness in because it's easier on me. It's not only what God has called it, but I'm not carrying that weight anymore. And I'll say this much, guys, like getting there, you know, this was the hardest sermon that I'd ever written when I wrote this. It was

40:35Saturday nights, and I'm still working on it because I again, as I said when I started the show, I sit with clients all the time that have had that kind of incredible hurt, that gentleman that I started the show off with who had called in, whose wife had left him. And I understand, and it's hard to get there. And I hope I haven't put anything out there to this point. That's just a pad answer or a bumper sticker. You got to forgive. You know, like that stuff is the worst form of Christianity. Hopefully it's been able to try to walk you in these first two steps of seeing that God loves you and forgives you. And too, you're freeing yourself when you recognize forgiveness is how you want it to affect your own heart. And that's why you go that route. Dave, do you think some people are reluctant to start the forgiveness process because they can't control the outcome or they're still strategizing the outcome they desire? Because you can't control that. You just got to put it out there. The only thing you can control is you. And so whether

41:35said situation happened or not, what is what will happen guaranteed is how you respond to it and what you carry with you. And that's the big key to all of this. The situation was bad. Do I want to make it worse by carrying anger or do I want to let the anger go? Whatever situation harmed you is not going to go away. It's just how you respond to it. It depends on how you carry that weight. Okay. We'll be back with Dave Ryerson. Thank you for the comments that have come in and the participation in the survey. It's all very helpful. We understand right now that there are a lot of people carrying some pain and some unforgiveness and stuff that's been bugging you for a while. So we're going to give this to God between now and the end of the hour. So we'll be right back. Welcome is a word said universally all over the world. Every language on the planet has their own way of making a friendly greeting. At Faith Radio, when we welcome, we really mean it.

42:39Learn more about us by requesting a free Welcome Pack gift. Text the word Welcome to 877-933-2484 or visit myfaithradio.com to request your Welcome Pack today. And a warm welcome to you. Back with Pastor Dave Ryerson, we're talking about forgiveness today. A text came in day that said, I have trouble forgiving myself. Go back and listen to the first segment. I'm not just forgiving you because like I'm with you, I say that kind of jokingly. I struggle with that too. But like understands God's forgiven it. It's Satan that's making you hang on to it. Christ has washed you clean of your sins. And so why sit there and look at the dirty you would be like, imagine you're here. Go roll in the mud and then go take a long bath and get out and then say, boy, I'm still dirty. You're not. You're clean. And that's literally when you turn it over to Christ,

43:41you've been washed clean. So stop seeing yourself as dirty. That's been washed from you. But I listen, I get it. Remember that interval that I said that we had. But that's the beautiful thing about God's grace that he continually endlessly forgives our sins. It goes back to the verse that I mentioned, why to me it's all a journey when sin abounds, grace abounds even more. Now again, Paul saying don't keep sending to collect God's grace, right? We don't want to do that. But that's the point is God's grace just continually piles on. And that's that final step to all of this is grace because in what unforgiveness is is a prison. Forgiveness is freedom. And you're going to get there through grace. And I know it's hard to get there. We've got that stupid thing called flesh, you know, our own body and our desires and our pride and even that person talked about that just text like his was his own self, you know, wrestling wrestling with that because our flesh loves to keep score and to remember all the wrongs. It loves to inflate our own value. It wants its own form of justice. It's filled with wrath like on and on and on. It can describe all this

44:44stuff. But you're imprisoned when you're hanging on to that stuff. When you can't forgive, you are literally locking yourself in this prison of resentment and bitterness. And that's why grace is the answer because think about Ephesians 2, 8 to 9, the most important significant verse in scripture for by grace you have been saved through faith. It is not of your own doing. It is a gift of God. Not a result of works of no one may boast. Notice grace comes first. God leads with grace. And so with this unmarried grace that God gives for us that were sinners. Because remember Romans 5, 8 says, you know, while we were still sinners Christ died for us. God didn't say, well, get it right. And then I'll die for you. It was your sinful, but my grace is bound to get even more. So my point is now, imagine what this would do to your hearts. If you do to others what God has done to you to show that unmarried to favor for those who've wronged you. And I know probably half your audience is driven into telephone pole right now. Like what? No, I'm not about

45:46to do that. But but think about this for a second. All right. If that's a struggle to hear about showing grace to those that have hurt you, let me ask this. How is the whole not forgiving thing working for you? Tell me your benefits now of hanging on to that anger and resentment. How is it made you better? Because those ultimately lead to bitterness. And I love in the book of Hebrews when it warrants when it says the root of bitterness. Because what's the root? It gets in way deep and it's hard to get out. And it changes. Bitterness changes people to the core of who they are. And it's not for the better. I, you know, bitterness when it changes you, we also know people who have been changed by grace. And aren't they beautiful people? It produces two different type of people, bitter people and grace filled people. Grace is an absolute beautiful trait. It probably explains why guys. So you guys have what? Probably is it 300 million listeners around the world? 400 million? I think it's way more than that. Yeah. Sorry guys. You know,

46:48I want to keep on salt us. Yeah. But I guarantee you have a lot of grace is listening. And I'm pretty sure you don't have any bitters listening. Like nobody names their kid that it's not a beautiful trait. Grace is a beautiful trait. And so why would you want to be in a prison of bitterness where you continually live in that hurt and resentment? And again, you're probably thinking, well, yeah, but I was hurt so bad. I'm not saying you weren't. When somebody hurts you, you don't want to relive it. It's hard to do that. But that's exactly what you're doing when you won't forgive and let go. You're staying in that prison, reliving it over and over again. When you show that unmerited grace to somebody who has hurt you as much as you don't want to, it is freeing you from that prison because grace takes something bad and makes good come out of it. It's exactly what God has done for us in Jesus. And so when we emulate that same mindset that we're sin abounds, grace abounds even more, what would that do for your life? Right? I mean, think about that. That

47:48it's 100% your choice to choose grace. That's complete freedom. If somebody has hurt you and you choose to bless them, when life hurts you, you choose to grow from it. So back to that friend that wrote in, I have trouble forgiving when others hurt others. I hear that. But you know what? That's life hurting you. So how can you grow from it? How can you be the better you to serve God's kingdom and bring the God's kingdom that Jesus talked about to earth more to help it look like that? That's where we grow in that. We can't just sit to there. Then we don't grow and do anything. That's the prison of resentment. And so grace will rock your world to the core if you choose to live it out. It's interesting. And Godman's, Godman's sound relationship, Hollis and how they deal with marriage, counseling and stuff. And they deal with us a lot too. They actually encourage you in a fight to say something nice to your partner. Nobody ever does that. But boy, does it change things quickly? If you're really mad at your spouse and you stop and say, you know, I don't like this fight, but I love the way you make me laugh. And I love that when we can have

48:50those good times together, that whole argument's going to end on the spot. Like it will diffuse so quickly, right? It's basically the point is with grace, try doing the opposite of your natural reaction when you're wronged. Show grace, respond in love. And even if the other person's a hoser and they don't take it, you know what? It doesn't matter. They're imprisoned then. It's not transactional. It's not limited. It's you being completely free with an unmarried action in your part. Because again, that's how God is towards you. Beautiful. Dave, thank you so much for this great teaching. I just enjoy you so much. And I appreciate all the good work you're doing and the outstanding presentation you gave today and forgiveness. Well, guys, I appreciate being on and thank you so much for just talking about this. Yeah, I have a great rest of your day. Pastor Dave Ryerson has been my guest from Biting Savior Church and the Sioux Falls. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Dr. Brian Warren in just a minute.

50:01Thanks for listening. Programming like this is made available through your support. Information available at myfaithradio.com