FKN Classics Double Feature! Doenut - Techno-gods | Paul Sheldon - Dream Beings

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2:05But as you very well know, there are layers and layers of deception to peel through when looking into these operations. I'm really looking forward to hearing some of your insights and theories. But before we get too deep, it's been a little while since you've been on. Remind the audience just a little bit about yourself and let them know where they can find you. Oh, yo, okay, it's doughnut. I am. I don't know. It's a big cat, man. Is that a big cat, Chan? I covered the occult symbolism and I like to get creative. You know, you could find all my work at DOE and UT. Don't know it. I'm just waking up right now. Well, right on. Well, as we progress and you wake up, we'll get a little deeper and deeper. But let's just start out with how you're feeling about everything since we last spoke. It's been

3:12an interesting year. It's been almost about that, I think, since we last spoke. But some very interesting things have been unfolding, especially with, like I said, the political theater. I've discussed this quite a bit. My audience knows how I feel about the whole thing. I think it's all theatrics. I think that we are being subjected to a massive sleight of hand right now. But I hope to be wrong. I really do. I hope that all the promises being made and all the wonderful, glorious things that the quote unquote white hats are promising will come through. But my gut and history tells me better. So I don't know. How do you feel about everything? Politically. Every start with politics because that's at the forefront right now. And then we'll, we'll delve deeper as we go. Yeah, it's a big reveal in happening right now because of what we saw during the lockdown.

4:13It was mostly the people that brought in revolution with protest on streets and uh snitching on the neighbor, yelling at you and applying the the mentality of yes, lock me down. So when it comes to the political theater, I think about the ideology of the people, right? Everyone's looking at the leaders. But what about this ideology that's carried on with the people? And most people, they, there's like two different mentalities of they want to be ruled. All throughout history, people have been wanting a king or queen to rule them.

5:14And this is no different than today. The experiment of America, she's so young. And retaking over of America back when it started from like the British empire or whatever. That we claim and happen a long time ago. And so when I'm looking at this political theater, I'm looking at people and a lot of people revealing their ideologies. And you got this far left ideology that's been on the rise with the woke movement of the woke left. And now we're seeing that same type of ideology creep in with the woke right as well. And what really broke my brain from studying

6:17the symbolism, because what I do is I look at symbols and symbology as you can see, I sound like a dumbass when I'm talking, I'm like positive, wake it up. I'm a video editor, so I show symbolism. And I started off showing new like, end of you all illuminati symbolism. And then you get deeper into the heraldry and then looking into the symbols of socialism, the symbols of world communism, that the great Jordan Maxwell would speak of of the sun rising over the mountain. And the bringing in and ushering in of this worldwide communism. And you just see the symbols and studying them. And then once you figure out this is this broke my fricking brain a year ago or before Trump was elected or maybe a little after I don't know. But once I realized the ideology of these like leftists,

7:24like socialists, that it just broke everything down into different camps. I'm like, wow, so much of the the movements that I grew up in kind of listening to rage against the machine. Or you know, stuff like that. These different movements that are sort of pushed by hot topic and manufactured. The same thing goes for Andrew Tate and Greta Thumburg. That the this ideology of the the saloon atik left that we saw with the screaming, uh, when the person got elected with Trump and she was screaming. And we're just seeing that whole system now on the rise in the the right that's absolutely huge. And like they call the woke right now. But I've been just the whole political

8:28theater of things. I haven't I've been just watching the people the crowd because that's who's under the hypnosis is that you're correct. You said the right word hypnosis. And I've been watching the same thing. I've been noticing friends turned against friends and family members cut off other family members and spew hate at each other over all this nonsense supporting the most evil disgusting people on the planet. And since when did conspiracy theorists ever support the government? And now we have I have longtime friends who have been deep into the conspiracy world. Now they're completely on the Trump train supporting everything they do. It's wild to see this. First there was Trump derangement syndrome. Now there's like you said, Trump hypnosis syndrome. And the man can do nothing wrong. But I see a lot of concerning things that are being hidden

9:30with the left hand as that right hand presents all these shiny things to us, right? Well, you know, the thing is I've been studying geopolitics for many many years. And I would argue that a lot of these conspiracy theorists and whatnot don't actually like the macro movement at all. And I believe it's a camouflage where they say they're supporting him. But then you look at their actions and they're not conservative. So that's why things have changed where there are people who are people who don't allow anybody to have their own religion, to have their

10:32own political choice anymore. We've gone to the side of instead of deep study, work, books, symbolism, research, live and let live. It's all turned into emotional manipulation and rhetoric for views pushed by an algorithm of hey. So the whole thing is it just seems, it's just the new social like the social media influencers, including myself, right, up on the stage. It's very cold like and it's driven not by the comfort of the books and the truth and the research and the mystery. It is all the narcissism algorithmic basis of likes or attention, even bad attention like bad attention.

11:36And narcissists love it because it's called narcissistic supply. This is something that I wanted to discuss as well as what we're seeing within the community. There's a lot of people saying that there are infiltration agents that there are people intentionally being inserted within the community to spread misinformation and they prop them up, which I'm sure that's happening. But I think it's more along the lines of what you're saying that there is this subconscious energy that is emanating throughout this conspiracy community that people are latching onto and it's a very toxic thing. It's a very narcissistic thing. It doesn't even matter if the information is true. They will only go to a surface level of research and present that regurgitated information that others have already put forward. But now it's like a game of telephone and the information is all shitty. But still people who haven't heard it, this quote-unquote conspiracy yet will eat it up and it goes viral

12:43and these people become the forefront of the community, the faces of the community. And it's all just mostly nonsense. There's a lot of good information. There's a lot of people that do great work like yourself, but there's others that are just recorgitating, looking at surface information and just wanting that attention. Right. Right. So the parrot, the mocking bird media, the social media influencers, every single thing in the mainstream, Joe Rogan, for example, that is not a diss to him. I'm just saying, he's the most mainstream podcast on the planet. More people watch Joe Rogan than any other podcast. So that equals mainstream. That's where the stream of consciousness is going. So you'll have characters up on Joe Rogan or wherever engaging with Elon Musk, Elon Musk sharing out

13:46tweets and Twitter posts, Fox News, the BBC, all these different corporations that have a conversation and then we're told we're the media. At the same time, this movie, The Civil War came out, which was all about the media that we are the media that we're going to cover the war and the reports. And then bam, that's what happened. Right. A war happened. And now we have all these new media figures that give us drips of information that the conspiracy world already knew. The conspiracy world already knew about the revelations that like the doge is revealing. We all knew that with the G Edward Griffins and whatnot out there. What was going on, how there's all this corruption in America. And I could go on for days about

14:52and people are just being manipulated. But if you present them with the truth, if you present them with the facts, the logic, that's going to, it doesn't take anyone anywhere. I'd accept for like real, real, like real people that want to know everything is just what's going to make me feel comfortable at night. Oh, I could blame this group of people. Oh, perfect. All like all the anti-Semitism on the rise. This is a weapon of the NWO to it's worked for thousands of years. That you blame one group of people, whatever that is. Oh, now I don't have to think. I don't have the research and I don't have to look at the other culprits that are involved in the brand conspiracy. So the whole, this whole thing has just been fricking from the lockdowns. It was like the Trump election to the lockdowns, to the Biden, the wars. And it's just been nuts.

16:04What do you think Trump represents? Having looked at all the symbolism that you look at and Musk, since you mentioned him as well, a few guests that I've even had on recently postulate that he may represent an archetype of the anti-Christ. I don't know what like much about the anti-Christ. I'm Jewish. So like the anti-Christ, what I've heard from, so I'm not an expert on what that is. But I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of close friends and movies and research. The anti-Christ, it's going to chip everyone, right? Or they're going to give you the mark of the beast. You can't be able to buy and sell. So there seems to be like a parallel to like with everything going on. But also everybody is the anti-Christ whenever that is. I remember when I remember in high school,

17:11when Obama got elected or out of high school, my girlfriend would be like Obama. He's the anti-Christ. Check out this video. So everybody saw it. I'm not sure. But symbolically, it's interesting because L is the Elohim. It's the gods. So L being God, going back to Al in an apology, the the Elis, a joint Maxwell wrote a book on it about the the Elis. And the Elie, that's where we get Florida Elis, Elis or your pro-zac from Lily Corporation or wherever,

18:20you know. All these words go back. So the the Elie ruled on top of the hill, the hillie. And the villains, the Vili were in the village at the bottom. So in the anemology of Elan, that goes deep. And with Trump, there's a lot of Apollo with him, like his whole the son, the son sort of symbolism. He's even bright orange like the sun, you know. Yeah, right now I'm just a right now of researching orange. Yeah. And orange symbol. The orange symbol is going to go wild. And the fun symbols. But yeah, I don't really, no, I kind of don't go where like my brain's not really there right now.

19:26Right. Well, what do you see in our their concerns about what you see being rolled out for this administration? The concerns of this administration and what's being rolled out. My concerns always the crowd. Like it's the crowd that ushers in. My that's my worry. It's it's it's the the crowd. That's more so. Well, it's always us. They present us with the idea and we bring it to life. We manifest the outcome. If it weren't for us, they would not be able to achieve any of it. Yeah. And also, I guess if the strangest thing is the whole, you know, PayPal, mafia, really ruling everything.

20:30And this is the new illuminati. Right. It's the new money. So looking at it through a power struggle rather than politically, but just trying to look at through a lens of history of power instead is kind of where my head's out where you got Peter Till Elon Musk. Why not? This is not old money. Even Trump. He's not old money. So it's more new money. So I'm just labeling that new illuminati. Right. Then you got old money. And these are bloodlines and families and heraldry that you like won't really know about. They're not going to be in the headlines. You'll hear a Roth child here and there, you know, that that seems to be put in the forefront. But there there's families that they married into and they were allowed to marry into and who left them all their money, who gave them that money. Right. Right.

21:31Those are just when you go more deeper into the bloodlines going back to these families, these older families. That's old money. Like that is like illuminati. Like so we got this new illuminati making power move into power because the plans of the illuminati roll out every century like every hundred years. We're so stuck on TikTok and Reels, which is just fast food for the mind. There's no substance and it's not deep long form podcast like this or whatnot. That Peter Till in the PayPal mafia of Silicon Valley, which is the military industrial complex, where toilet, where computers or whatever, but no, it's not just like when Trump rolled out the wireless communication systems in rural areas during the lockdown.

22:32That was for high-speed internet. So the farmers could watch HD naughty videos. That was in the lay-made papers for a national security concern for American and her allies because this is fifth generation warfare. And Peter Till, who really runs Elon Musk with Palomiteer and whatnot, he's the head of the steering committee of the Builderbird group. I always look at what about the family bloodlines, what's going to happen in a hundred years from now in their kids. It's an rebranding, a changing of the guard. And it's rolling out the technology. Everything that you said is our worst fear of being ruled by AI robots, every dystopian

23:40movie that you see where there's drones policing the skies and can kill you in an instant. If they believe that you might commit a crime in the future. So this is what they're rolling out right now, right under our noses, as far as what I can tell. But something else that I wanted to get to is some of the current events that have been unfolding, some of the strange things. I haven't really been able to pay attention to much. I've been wrapping up production on my film. I've been really out of looking at anything that's being presented in the mainstream. But I did see that Jean Hackman died and there's extremely weird shit surrounding that whole thing. And I saw that you did a little video on it, but any thoughts on that? Yes, yeah. So Jean Hackman, though the words, right? Jean Hackman. It's like Jean jeans. That's our code. This is the whole oracle part of it. I

24:47guess that would be the concern, right? You're asking about the concerns or whatever. It is like the the technology as well. And all these big rituals that go down, which are the Super Bowl ritual, the halftime show. I was showcasing over the years how these are sex magic rituals go, you know, dedicated to Ishtar usually. And going back to the weekend, so during the lockdowns, during with the weekend, they were showing all these it looks like all these different sperms that just collapsed on the field. It was all meant to there was no women at all. So I was saying this

25:51is a same-sex-attracted ritual. And so there was no fertility. I was laugh that, you know, I mean, like this is what are you talking about? That's ridiculous. Then the next year happened and then watched it all connected. Rihanna, she was pregnant, you know, and everything was about the egg during that ritual. And you gotta remember, so many eyeballs are watching this. This is the most popular television show of all time. And then you had usher, you know, with this sexy abs and on the next one or whatever, you know, get everyone. All the the you got the hot cheerleaders, you know, the imitation of warfare, blood, fertility, organ, energy, just all this different things charging the field, you know, for the crops and the big distraction or whatever for the pleaps.

26:54And then this year, we had Hendrick Lamar. And I was showing in one of my videos on rumble how they are showing, they see their sperm or the blood cells, but they're showing the new man how we are being transmuted in a sense to a new man, which goes into like the 2045 agenda of the transhumanists going by Julian Huxley, this technocracy to be worried about the X Club. Interesting, it's called X, you know, Elon X X Club going back to this Darwinism in Eugenics, which the left loves, you know, whether that's the national socialists or plan parenthoods or whatever, you know, that's what I'm talking about. And so I'll get to the gene hack. It's all hard. So Gene Hackman, he passes away

28:06right before the Oscars. And they it was a ritual for the Oscars. And at these ceremonies, Oscars, Grammys, VMAs, all this, they showcase the new technologies, the new quantum computers, even fashion shows and whatnot, even beyond say the clothes that they give her are showing the new technologies that are being like implanted into like, yeah, I'm trying to, if you put this on like, you know, I'm trying to say words. It's all good, man. Correct. Yeah. So Kendrick Lamar is singing the song, wearing these weird jeans, right? Singing the song about, I got loyalty, I got loyalty in my DNA, you know, so we sing in about these songs. So they're showcasing the new human that's being built. And Gene Hackman, ritual there. The weird thing is is also, I don't know if

29:13you read about the whole Epstein connection yet. See, I haven't really looked into it either, but Epstein was a ritual hanging because they hung him on August 10th. August 10th is the day for the helical rising of Sirius, the dog star. And we got the star in this dog who died, Gene Hackman and the dog. But Sirius plays a huge role, according to the guy who really created the KKK and and morals and dogman, the free masonry, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, or Pike. He dedicated his astrology room to the date August 10th and the day centering upon it. August 10th is when the son of Sam, who had the dog talking to him, he was locked up. August 10th

30:15is when zero day was announced by Jack Dorsey on Twitter. You see a lot of rituals go down on August 10th in the day centering upon it as well. So there's a lot going on. So the whole Gene Hackman thing, I think, plays into just the ritual with the etymology of what they're, what we're heading is towards transhumanism, this type of accuracy, like you're talking about. You mentioned that these are ritual and I can see the Super Bowl, I can see the Oscars, I can see these pre-planned performances, 100% being a form of a ritual. But some of these other events that seem to unfold simultaneously or around the same time like Gene Hackman's death or other high impact events, it seems like the planning is so elaborate, almost impossible to pull off at times.

31:20If you look at the way ritual magic is done, you have to be under a certain blood moon and astrological sign and all these elements have to be in place. And for this to be occurring on a large scale and a global scale as many believe that it is, it seems that they would have to be some grand intelligence orchestrating this, something possibly nonhuman. Or what I lean towards is times is there's this energy, this synchronistic intelligence energy that when these parasitic sorcerers tap into this energy, they can manifest things and somehow cause events to unfold in our reality that link up in certain ways. I'm not sure, but what are your thoughts on that? I know that the thing is there's a mystery to life. So we're not going to know everything, that's just the mystery.

32:28And my work in my own life is to be okay with the mystery, which is hard because it's scary. What's going to happen? What's going to happen if I ask this girl out or what's going to happen if I make this video or if I say this thing that I know the audience will not like, you know, what's the mystery or maybe they will love it. It's like it's in being okay with that mystery. In the world is mysterious and there's this phenomenon that does happen and that's what I do like to look into is these 40 in phenomenons and that you do get a glimpse of, wow, there's something going on that is higher than what we can see. There is, I believe in God and there in recovery as well, like I can't stay sober without doing certain, like praying to God or whatever, like what is that?

33:32That totally changed my psyche. That was crazy. So when I'm looking at these rituals on the world sometimes you get a glimpse of, you know, they could not have planned that. That we're tapping into something with the phenomenon here. So there's phenomenons that I do like to study and I think you're absolutely correct the way that you said that. That was like beautiful. It could be like some sort of working where they're working with the phenomenons. They know, you know, at this certain time, what during this blood moon, which we're coming up on one and I made a public prediction. I always do public predictions the whole everyone that I had podcast with don't do that. It's going to ruin your life. It's going to ruin everything but I'm like, I fit like I've got the balls. I'm going to do it, you know, I'm pretty profited in what I'm saying. I've done it a bunch of times where I'll say, yo, tomorrow's the 201 day look out for ritual than the most massive blackout.

34:39In real history. So like it's easy to to point that dates and I do it on purpose to put it on a ledger in a sense for my own research and study because it's it is a pattern recognition. How come on August 10th? These rituals happen or what not? And we're coming up on a blood moon on 313. This is a very interesting time. This month, I believe there will be a big ritual. I think it's going to happen in two days from now. Today's 3 8, which is like the murder number. But March 10th is the day they created the $100 bill and the Economist magazine, which does this future gazing that shows us what's going to happen, has Trump lighting a $100 bill and setting it on fire. And that's paying homage to the 1988 version where there's a phoenix rising from the ashes. So March 10th,

35:45that issue was released with him lighting the $100 bill. While that is the date the $100 bill was created on March 10th. And that is right before this eclipse, this moon and the energy of the ritual of the moon is three days prior and three days after or the day of. So these rituals, they got like a pretty much like a whole week window of energy. But usually we see a death the day before the full moon. So I'm thinking the ritual will kick off on March 10th, which is going to be connected to money. And then I think that's a Monday, which Monday is the moon, moon day. And so it's all connected to money. And then the bigger ritual will happen for the spring equinox on March 20th. So I think that is because I'm not looking way too far like a lot of people are, you know, look, they're actually

36:50astrologers. Then they look into people's charts and stuff. I don't do that. I don't know how to. But so there's other time periods that are like May that are. It may be a good possibility that the players that we are aware of like Trump, like Elon, like these politicians may not even be aware of what they're participating in. They may be unwilling actors in this. They may have a level of awareness, but not to the extent of what they're connecting to what they're bringing about into our reality. Or they might some say Trump is a cabalist. And he's studied this his whole life. And then we have the strange thing with his uncle and the testlophiles and the Baron Trump book. So there's definitely some high strangeness that surrounds all of it. Could it be just this synchromistic energy connecting everything once again? How aware are they? I don't know. What do you think?

37:53I absolutely think that all politicians, they all got court magicians like John D in the queen in whatever, you know, Steve Bannon is the very aware of all the different magicians that he like studies with chaos magic. And the absolutely like on the battlefield, their enemies like for example, US, they're like, oh well, Russia is using this frickin astral projection, you know, so we're gonna get on top of it and do the best to have to protect. You know, so like, and using astrology for certain dates to go into battle. So it does become a study and it has been a study for a long time for warfare, for inaugurations. You got Biden who came out on 222, Pluto's return at 222 pm to kick off the war.

39:03And so it's absolutely being utilized the times and dates and magic and all that for sure. 100%. Everybody's using it. Everybody's doing it, man. Everybody's doing it. Now going back to the events and the rituals that we were just discussing, like the Super Bowl and the Oscars, you did a video about the Oscars. Is there anything that you've seen in that that you'd like to share? Oh, the Oscars, I watched the whole ritual was very painful. It's just all just garbage. It's just the big political get the crowd wild, get everyone distracted. It's idol tree. It's the same thing that people have with politicians, with social media influencers. The it's all idol tree. People worship these means and images of their leaders on their phone

40:11or whatever. And that's that's what it all out the end of the day is. We saw all the symbols that are always there, the all-seeing eye, the free Masonic compass. It's always there. It's my focus has been more on the crowd lately, just because the lockdowns, just seeing just everybody's mentality move into a crowd. The crowd doesn't have its own consciousness. It's not the individual. And stepping away from the crowd. It's hard. I get caught up in it and it's I'm a human, you know, everybody's human. But I'm doing my best to the step away slowly, but as much as possible away from group think, which is social media, that's the crowd. So those are little echo chambers. Elon looks at everyone as an algorithm. And the algorithm is feeding people

41:17based off of there what they like and who they follow. And to these digital silos and echo chambers like you were saying about the parody. There's there's no eureka moments of thought of going against the the crowd. We don't know how to think today or read or or any of this. I have been so socially engineered and getting out of that. The the big thing is is just not participating in the crowd. The thoughts, but that doesn't mean to be alone on an island. So you got to also like observe and go in and talk and all that. It's just been strange. It's just this also gets into the manufactured movement that you were mentioning earlier. Unfortunately, we can't find much in our modern reality that isn't a toxic manufactured movement. I always asked a question. Did it always

42:20start out that way? Were all of these things that seem to be beneficial for humanity? Did they ever originate with someone with good intentions? Are all these things being manufactured to Steerus in certain directions? I know for a fact that probably since the 60s and 70s since we had the MK Ultra experiments and then they started implementing it into our mass culture. That is definitely when we started seeing everything being manufactured from our food, our air, our water, everything we see on television, especially everything we interact with on social media. The only authenticity that will get in our lives is with nature and with each other on a one-on-one conversation. So this has apparently been intentional for a very long time, but these movements have been infiltrated most likely since the beginning of time, since the beginning

43:24of these rulers at least. They understand this. They understand that when I say they, the rulers, the people in control, they understand these movements throughout history. There's always been these political movements all throughout history and you got misinformation and disinformation. Misinformation is just like, I don't know. I never read that book. My bad. Disinformation is usually you get a bunch of truths, but they'll meet a lot of other culprits involved in the grand conspiracy, which this is exactly what we see today with the rising of the secrets in a sense or religions as well. So the controllers understand from when you're a kid, you're going to have

44:26angst. That's great. We got hot topic for you. Here's hot topic. Here's this type of music. You're not an individual, though. You're part of a collective crowd that has been created by corporations and elites for you to join like a hippie movement like you brought up as well. We've seen the military industrial complex hands all over that. Then we think that we're because they understand the psychology from a kid, even when you're seven, the famous quote, show me a kid at the seven. They'll show you the man. I think Aristotle said that. I don't know who said it. There's a lot of different. But so that goes back even further to the womb when we're in the womb. So like the mind control starts off in the womb and that goes all the, which means the matrix.

45:26And then when we're teenagers, we were angry and we want to rebel. Here's Greta Thumper. Here's Andrew Tate. It's funny because both of them align politically. They're both politically aligned. And even though there might be some things that they don't agree on, the bigger picture they do agree on. Or you'll get a political movement as well. Oh, you're upset with what's going on here. Here's another crowd to join. And so the controllers, they understand this process throughout life. And even to our 30s as well, they understand where we're going to land. When we're all sick of it, the whole process of psychology of growing up has been studied for so long that that will get these different movements. So for sure, 100%.

46:32Yeah. I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier. That is the transformation of the human, the transhuman movement. This is something that has been occurring for a very long time. They've been altering humanity for a while. But the intended outcome is becoming more obvious. It is a person who is completely disconnected from God spirituality, but will also follow orders blindly. And will just be a hive mind like you were just mentioning. And it seems like that's what they are trying to create this hive-minded society that will just be worker bees. No creativity, no imagination, and no connection to source or spirituality. You look back at the TED Talk that Bill Gates did in the 90s about vaccinating against spirituality, vaccinating against the God gene. You fast forward to the recent vaccines, the COVID fiasco. It makes you wonder.

47:37Oh, it's this technocracy goes back to eugenics, Darwinism, and all that. The Huxley's, which also were part of this whole hippie movement with all this Huxley. It is creating this new man, a new human species, the evolution, the Darwin evolution, which is all a scam. It's survival, the fittest is a scam. But this psychopathic culture that we live in America, the rest of the world as well. America, this is what's interesting about the difference between the old type of researchers to this today's social media TikTok influencers is a lot of them did love America, did love the Constitution and freedom and whatnot. In this experiment of America, which you can see,

48:39then there's also Knights Templar hands up in their Masonic hand, secret societies or whatever, experiment or not, this idea of individual rights and sovereignty is a good thing, freedom. And the most of the world does not agree with that. This is not okay. We need the kings or the queens, the rulers. It's better for the society as whole. Everything is about everything, the society, the crowd and not the individual. And with the individual and freedom, this is where we get these Eureka moments of going against the crowd in the group think, where we get create creative thought, creative movies, whatever. Why does all the people watch American movies all over the world at a time? I wouldn't say so much now, but throughout history, because we were

49:43free somewhat to make art and get creative. Yeah, it's a it's a yeah, man, you were mentioning the echo chambers a little while ago. It makes me wonder how much of the awakening community, the people that are perpetuating the notion that more people are waking up and becoming aware and participating with the truth movement than there really are. And this is something that could be possible since all we have been subjected to is echo chambers in this community lately. It doesn't matter what you're looking into. Once you get sucked into any specific algorithm, that's all you're going to see. That's all your news feed is going to bring to your attention and it's not going to go anywhere else. It's going to keep you in a specific box. And it's going

50:46to present you with things that it knows will give you hope will make you continue looking at those things. And I wonder at times if this entire movement that people are becoming aware of this, people are awakening, people are not participating with these dystopian agendas could be blown out of proportion to give people more hope. Yeah, it's yeah, for sure, for sure, I think it's all nuts. It's my mind right now is just the whole collective thing, you know, and given the collective hope and the cathartic experience and whatnot, well, they'll elect someone. It's like the left right paradigm of control. It's just like, here's a movie for you. Here's a video game. Get your anger out.

51:53Here's, oh, we'll give you this politician. We'll give you that politician in the selection rather than the election. These different cathartic experiences and hope in despair. And yeah, I, I, it's weird. It's weird. It's all manipulation. It's emotional manipulation, psychological manipulation going on for sure. And we see the micro macrocosm of stuff. So like the big picture, we can see it in the little picture as well with just everyday lives of relationships, family members, people out on the streets. We can see there, most people are tyrannical. Most people live in this master's slave dynamic where they want a rule, especially in this narcissistic will to power. So I'm always going back sort of away from looking as of since the lockdowns at society in general. Society has, they, everyone wants to control what you eat online.

53:03Yo, only eat meat. Yo, only eat vegan. Yo, only believe my dogma. No, this dogma, no, believe what I say to the point where you got movements telling people if they can master better or not. Like, you know, you don't master, but it's like this whole will to power is very evident. Just the way people treat themselves as well internally. I live in like the most bougie place in America pretty much, you know, and it's so fake and it's so it's so robot and everyone is a clone. And most places I move to, everybody just is a clone. It's, it's, uh, it's very strange. It's unfortunate in the best way for us to decipher where people are at, where the collective consciousness is at is to go out and actually interact with people. I see it split down the middle

54:04as far as my own public interactions. It does give me hope because there have been instances where I'll be having a conversation with one of my friends about some of the topics I'm covering. And it'll attract other people who are interested in it and they'll join in. There have been an increase in things like that occurring, but there's also been a regression, especially just in the past few months, it seems. People are slipping back into this hive mind group think right left paradigm because of all the hopeium that they're being offered. And I believe that this has all been manufactured from the beginning. It's all been a sleight of hand to get people pushed over to that more conservative way of thinking because of all the ridiculous crazy woke stuff that we were subjected to. So it pushes those who are still participating in the system to that state of mind.

55:09And bam, that's where you get Trump. And this is where we're at now. Yeah, yeah. So this, this, this is what I'm looking at. And I've been looking at for a while. The, the crazy leftists, the, the woke mob, they're still on the, they, they move to the right as well. And I don't think this is an, this is an infiltration by the controllers going back to these royal families and the crown as well, where you get these Russell brands. And you know, but look at the audience, they could be robots, they could be bot farming. And look at their leaders, they're irrational. They're, they're, they're more feminine like a leftist. They're always screaming. They're screaming at the top of their lungs telling telling us how to, they're behaving just like the, the, the, the, the, the woke left the woke right because it's this ideology. Once you uncover the

56:12ideology of the left, which is like the socialist communist type ideology, you'll, you'll see it on, on the right as well. And it has infiltrated because none, like a lot of these people aren't conservative. What, what, so ever. And I'm talking about social media influencers. And it's, it's, the, the left thing, the woke thing didn't work. Well, let's implant this whole left ideology in these actions. Like it's just all emotional. It's all crazy. It's not coming from place of neutrality. And it gets me into it where I don't, like, I, it's hard for me to, I want to like, sweet and talk about stuff. And, but I usually get so emotionally hijacked by the amygdala, because that's what's going on. It's all rhetoric. It's all emotional. There's nothing like the old researchers, like picking up the books and like, and reading the books and, and showing the facts and being okay with somebody if

57:17they're wherever they're at, you know, and having acceptance. That doesn't exist in a lot of the world today on the right. Right. And I will say that I know a lot of great researchers who still do that, who still dive deep into books and good information. And they present it logically. But it is very difficult to find people there much fewer and far between these days. But we got a few minutes left. Is there anything else that you would like to share with the audience that you've been looking at, noticing lately any thoughts and encouragement? Hope for the future. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you're optimistic, you live longer, according to, that was what Robert Anton Wilson talked about a lot of his interviews. And I got to interview the author of his book,

58:20where of his life story. And he went through a lot of hard times. And he still showed up optimistic for his interviews and gave that message of hope. There is hope and optimism. If there wasn't, then we wouldn't be here now just kicking it, you know, and talking about these topics would be like, okay, f everything, you know. So there, there is hope for sure. And the, what I, I finished working on an illuminati comic, it was just big, it was very successful, worked really hard on it with my friend, paranoid American. And we're wrapping that up by next month or so and sending out all the, the stuff I may like the like the VHS boxes that I do, try to make some cool, you know, inspirational kind of stuff out there. But I'm looking, I'm always just, you know, research and looking at stuff.

59:24It's a, I just got back from traveling the entire world. I went to Japan. Nice. And I'm back now. So I'm working on like a samurai documentary right now on the hugger Curie. Yeah, yeah. So that's not much, you know, I know this, my podcast today, I'm kind of out of it. I'm jet lag. Well, I appreciate you making it, man. After being on a world tour, basically, and coming on a podcast, I really appreciate you being able to make it. But man, this was great. We're going to definitely have to do this again. One more time for the audience before we close out. Let them know where they can find all your wonderful content. You can find me on a social media. I'm Donut and that's spelled D-O-E-N-U-T. Right on. Donut, we will definitely do this again. And until next time, everyone, have a wonderful evening, we will talk again tomorrow. See y'all then.

1:00:35Today on a welcome, Paul Sheldon, he is an internationally recognized authority on dreaming and lucidity. He is the author of the guidebook, Wisdom of Dreaming, a guide to a more effective dream life. Paul, welcome. How you doing? Just fine. Thank you. Thanks so much for coming on. I've been looking forward to this. Today we're going to be discussing your book, Wisdom of Dreaming, a guide to a more effective dream life. Now, I just completed my second film, Doors of Perception, and it has a section on dreams, particularly contact experiences, prophetic dreams, and the information that dreams can provide for us, as well as the synchronicities that can occur in our waking life that may be connected to dreams. So I'm looking forward to getting your perspective on dreams. But before we do, this is your first time on. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and what led you to write the book.

1:01:43Well, I'm actually an aging flower child, having lived through the 60s in California, and in college, I did inhale. I've spent the better part of 60 years exploring consciousness and awareness along the way. I picked up bachelors and master's degrees in human development from a little quaker college out in Pasadena, California, called Pacific Oaks, where I was allowed to study pretty much anything I wanted to that had to do with growth and development, psychology, philosophy, human biology, anthropology, sociology, really had a fun time back in the 70s and early 80s, just studying everything I can get my hands on that had to do with consciousness, spirituality, paranormal phenomena, went to Mount Shasta in 1975 looking for the Lemoreans and trying to find the UFOs going in and out of the north side of the mountain. Lots of stories to tell. And along the way, I've always been interested in

1:02:44dreaming, and I encountered some guys in Southern California who had a community of people who's called the Center for Feeling Therapy and their community was centered around dreaming. They published a book called The Dreammakers, which was about 21 days to break through dreaming. And I went through that process. I'm a slow learner, so they said 21 days it took me a year and a half to go through their process, but my entire life changed. I started out living in a junky little apartment above my mom's garage in Southern California, no job, no relationship, no vision of where I was going in life. And in a year and a half, I was married to wonderful woman who went on to get a PhD in education, living in Aspen with a beautiful four-bedroom three-bath house for the view of the ski slope skiing 100 days a year. And the man who wrote the book,

1:03:44The Dreammakers turned out to live literally around the corner from my house in Aspen. So we met and became friends, and he had moved on. There's more story to tell there, but I asked him about the material that had gone into The Dreammakers, and he said, oh, yeah, I'm not working with that anymore, you could do whatever you want with it. So that was the beginning that led to the book Wisdom of Dreaming, which contains that almost the same process that they developed in Southern California, as a 18-dream sequence that guides people to a deeper, more integral experience of their own relationship with their own dream lives. So I hope that was too long to answer. We love long answers here. So perfect introduction. When we're talking about dreaming, how would you best describe what is occurring when we're dreaming? What's the purpose for dreaming? It's a big question, but we'll kind of break it down from there. Sure. The purpose of dreaming is a mystery. No one really

1:04:46knows. I am not a fan of the brain theory of consciousness. I don't think that consciousness originates in the brain. Consciousness originates from a mysterious source, and we came in with consciousness. We'll go out with consciousness at some level. And dreaming is a human or mammalian phenomenon that seems to have evolved to keep bodies still during the night. The consciousness does not need to sleep as much as the body needs to be still during times of darkness when mammalian species would tend to get eaten if they moved during the night. And so dreaming is an opportunity to enter into a state of pure consciousness, and nobody really knows what it's for. Steven Leverish has done a lot of speculation. He's identified nine different purposes for dreaming, specifically

1:05:51Lucid dreaming in his case. And I'm open to any opportunity that anybody wants to propose, except that dreaming is an accidental byproduct of electrochemical reactions in the brain. That just doesn't hold water for me. Now you wrote about how the Kennedy assassination played a role in your interest in dreaming. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, as a child, I woke up one morning with a dream that puzzled me. I was running down a dock being chased by a band of savages. And in the water beside the dock was a canoe. And in the canoe was a corpse with flaming red hair. It was really bright red. And I woke up wondering what was that about? And that day, President Kennedy was assassinated, and he was shot in the head. And so I was really

1:06:54surprised wondering, gee, what was going on there? And that kind of started my interest in dreaming and precognitive dreaming and correlations between dreaming and waking. And of course, led to a lifelong fascination with the Kennedy assassination. What happened there? Now some are of the belief that when we're dreaming, our consciousness is accessing realities that aren't normally accessible during our waking life, that our consciousness may be experiencing a different reality that may coincide the one we're in now. And it may also be connected to the afterlife. I immersed myself in psychedelic experiences in research for this film that I was doing. And there seems to be profound connections with that as well, especially in a sense that when you have these profound psychedelic experiences and you're immersed in that experience,

1:07:59it seems more real than this reality. But when you come back, it's extremely dreamlike and difficult to remember, even though you may receive profound information or interact with different intelligences. And at the time you're doing this, it seems very real. But when you come back, it seems more like a dream. Talk a little bit about your understanding of where we're going where our consciousness is accessing. Wow, thank you for that opening. That's way more than question. That's an invitation to a PhD. Let's do it. The first of all, I think the words that we use are not only important, but determinative of what we experience. So how we describe the phenomena of consciousness in many ways determine what we experience because our taken for granted assumptions influence our experiences. For example, if we say reality, the origins of that word are in things.

1:09:08So reality literally is the world of things, the physical world, the tangible world where you can knock on something and touch it, feel it, smell it, taste it. I don't think that dreaming is a reality. Dreaming is a state of awareness. And as you know, back in the 70s Charles Tart wrote a book called Altered States of Consciousness. And then he revised his title to be simply states of consciousness because he realized that there's no normal. If we really study how people experience the world culturally and phenomenologically, we find that there's no standard. It's all largely linguistically determined. The language that we speak influences the way we experience the world and the way that we describe our consciousness literally defines what we're describing. And so it's difficult to come

1:10:14up with a normal state of consciousness. The title for your movie is beautifully historical, given all this Huxley's work by the same name, which I also read in the 60s and it influenced strongly my experience as states of consciousness and states of awareness. His book Island is a wonderful access to what I think it was Terence McKenna coined the phrase Enthiogen. And so although consciousness is not, does not originate in physical brain matter. Clearly there is an electrochemical component to our ability to experience this world. Because if we put like searchic acid, diethylamide or psilocyte mushrooms or extracts from the mescaliero cactus into our bodies, it profoundly affects our

1:11:17experience of the world. And so I prefer to use a world or truth or consciousness or awareness very rarely we'll talk about reality because reality is a social consensus. And when we're talking about these different states of awareness for the sake of this conversation, let's call it the imaginal realm where we can interact with seemingly an intelligence or field of information that it seems we don't normally again subjective, but we don't normally have access to. It also suggests that our imagination, what we put out there are thoughts and feelings can affect our reality in certain ways. They can affect other people in certain ways. If you look at thought forms and aggregors that we may be creating this intelligence just based

1:12:23off of our own experiences, our own emotions, the energy that that puts out there may put this intelligent imprint into that imaginal realm that then takes on a life of its own. Do you think that that is possible and that could be occurring? Absolutely. It is possible that consciousness is an illusion and it is possible that we're imagining all of this. We have very little way to know in one of my favorite questions is how do you know that you're not dreaming right now? To which the answer is you can't. There are ways to verify that you are dreaming because there are certain experiences that are possible in the dream stream that are not possible in the waking world or not common at least. If I can jump up in the air and levitate and not come back down,

1:13:25then I'm probably dreaming. If I can pull my finger and have it stretch, then I'm probably dreaming. But I can't be certain that I'm not dreaming because there's no way to verify whether or not I'm dreaming that I'm not dreaming. Insomniacs have trouble with this a lot because they say, oh, I didn't sleep at all last night. But that's because they dreamt that they weren't sleeping because when you put them in a sleep lab and monitor their brain waves and their pulse rate and their respiration rate and their responsiveness, it turns out that they were sleeping quite well and just dreaming that they couldn't sleep. You said that there are ways that we can tell if we're dreaming. And you mentioned a few techniques. This is very interesting to me and it's something that I'd be interested in exploring more during my dream experiences is being able to be aware of when we're dreaming. I've heard a couple of things that one, we can't decipher

1:14:31words or letters or sentences or rubber band trick that I've heard where you can wear rubber band during the day and flick yourself every once in a while. Maybe we could go over some more of the ways that we can become aware that we're dreaming. Sure, let's distinguish several kinds of dreaming. What most people refer to in dreaming is they're asleep, they're dreaming, they don't know that they're dreaming, whatever they're experiencing, they assume that it's real and that's the remembered dreams. There are vivid dreams that are particularly intense and many people call those lucid dreams because they're so intense. My definition of lucidity begins with recognizing that you're dreaming and so a vivid dream may not be lucid unless you know that you're dreaming.

1:15:32And then I coined a word onyodonosis which some people pronounce onyodonosis. It was given to me in a dream and so I don't know how to pronounce it. You can decide for yourself. But Steven Labaris talks about onyodonosis being the Greek god of dreaming and so onyodonosis is knowing that you're dreaming and knowing yourself as the dreamer which is another level of lucidity. It's fine to know that I'm dreaming but if I know that I'm the source of the dream or if I assume or propose that I am the source of the dreaming or if I have some role to play in the creation of the dream that creates a whole other set of experiences. I decided early on that my interest in exploring dreaming was in divine states of awareness gaining insight into the essence of what it is to be a

1:16:39conscious being and there's a whole set of traditions in the tribal societies and in the ancient worlds around incubation of dreaming, invocation of conscious dreaming, invocation of prophetic dreams or inspirational dreams and it's pretty much worldwide. The Aboriginal peoples in Australia have an ancient tradition. They say that the dream time is where we come from before we enter this world. It's where we go to when we leave this world. The Tibetans who as far as we know have had no contact with the aboriginals for tens of thousands of years say the same thing. The Navajo, Denet people and the Hopi say the same thing. So the Siberians say similar things. So world-wide there seems to be a consensus among the ancient peoples that what we call dreaming is a state of consciousness that's non-physical in nature. It's where we came from before we had a body. It's

1:17:41where we go to when we're not in our bodies and we can invoke that consciously and intentionally what you call the imaginal realm. That's an option all the time. Many people who go through deep levels of trauma whether it's UFO abduction or being listed or having the victim of a violent crime or war can go into that imaginal realm. Victor Frankl talked about it from his experiences in the concentration camps during World War II of being able to access the state of awareness that is almost divine in the insistence on seeking out and experiencing beauty and kindness and forgiveness and comfort even in the midst of circumstances that are horrific. Let's explore more of what I mentioned a minute ago. Ways that we come become aware while we're dreaming that we're dreaming. Yes, thank you. I had a step over that question. So my book Wisdom of Dreaming is not specifically

1:18:47about lucid dreaming. I feel that there's a lot of literature on lucid dreaming that's quite accessible and quite exhaustive. I didn't need to revisit that. Wisdom of dreaming is more about what do I do once I become lucid and even without lucidity what can I do as an explorer of my own dream world. But to arrive at that I went through a 15 year process of studying and practicing lucid dreaming. And so there is a small variety of techniques for recognizing dreaming what you're dreaming and you were talking about the wristband that you can snap when you're awake. I sometimes carry a coin in my pocket that has on one side it says is this a dream and on the other side has a symbol. Stephen LeBarris recommends using light switches or doorways as triggers of asking the question am I dreaming right now. And as I began to practice that this would be around 1978, 79 up through the mid 90s.

1:19:56I found that the waking mind is quite insistent about saying I'm awake right now I'm not dreaming. So I for example gone on elevator rides in the dream stream where in the elevator I give a 20 minute lecture on how to become lucid and how to recognize that you're dreaming when you're dreaming without ever doing it and waking up going I could have had a V8. I went for years doing that fairly commonly or Stephen LeBarris recommends using digital clock as a verification using a technique developed by Paul Toulier called state testing or reality testing. So as you mentioned earlier the dreaming mind is not very good with details. So if I look at a digital clock and it says 10.05 and I look

1:20:58away and I look back at the digital clock it's probably going to say something different. And so one morning when I was practicing that I looked at a digital clock it said 6.45 then I looked away and I looked back and it said 6.75 and I said oh good it's a quarter to seven I can keep sleeping. Or I was in a hotel room there's a very at the time it was a holiday in a very distinctive building in West Los Angeles that did not burn in the recent fires that was a holiday in it's a round building kind of like the capital records building in Hollywood that was maybe 10 stories high and I was in a hotel room at the top of that holiday in and I used to manage hotels so I know that it's not proper protocol for a housekeeper to be in the room when a guest is present

1:21:59because forbidding that prevents prostitution and accusation of theft and all kinds of things so most hotel managers just don't allow it and this housekeeper was in the room and I was surprised and I thought gee I wonder if I'm dreaming so I found the guest orientation letter in the nightstand of the of the room and I took it out and I read it and it said holiday in and I looked away look back read it again it said housekeeping services so I said oh I must be dreaming so I ran out to the balcony and dove off the balcony on the tenth floor and as I was falling I remember thinking wow I sure hope I'm right yeah fortunately I was I started flying and went off on a bunch of adventures but that whole process of what do you do when you wonder if you're dreaming begins with practicing asking

1:23:00that question and I found that when I hit about 14 or 15 times during the day when I was awake when I asked that question I wonder if I'm dreaming and for me the reading test works really well except when there's nothing to read which is a clue if there's no writing anywhere that doesn't normally happen in our waking light but if I if I asked that question and then did a reality test whether it was finding something to read or pulling my finger or jumping up in the air to see if I could stay in the air 14 to 15 times when I was awake then I started asking that question while I was dreaming and the problem was when I asked that question when I was dreaming almost always I said yeah I'm awake and then when I woke up I was like oh no and so then actually testing once you practice and develop the ability to ask the question am I dreaming right now and then finding

1:24:01a little repertoire of things that you can do to verify one of my favorites is putting my hand up against a wall to see if I can push my hand through the wall or to imagine that it's spongy and I can put my hand into the wall or putting my hand against a window to see if I could put my hand through the glass without breaking the window you have to do that carefully because if you're wrong you know you don't want to put your fist through a late glass window but do it gently to find out if it's something you can do without entering yourself or others I found that to be quite reliable and then the next step is intention setting so when I'm practicing during the day and I ask the question gee I wonder if I'm dreaming and I read something look way look back read it again it's exactly the same I go darn I'm not dreaming then to say okay but if I was dreaming I would make love with a beautiful woman or beautiful man or whatever your imagined preference is I would

1:25:07fly I would breathe underwater I would inquire into the living noses I would ask a profound question of great teacher practicing what is it I would do if I were dreaming then increases the likelihood that I will remember that when I'm dreaming and that leads to a whole different world because then if I recognize that I am dreaming while I'm dreaming and I recognize myself as the dreamer then a world of opportunity opens up because prayer works inquiry works I can imagine walking around a corner and meeting someone that I need to talk with I can speak with my loved ones who've died and I can speak with my unborn children you know anything you can imagine becomes possible I I have I'm not a prolific lucid dreaming lucid dreamer I spontaneously so I have one or two lucid dreams a month when I really work at it I can have two or three a week but I have to work at it to get there and I have a number of friends who are simply gifted lucid dreamers they pretty much know that

1:26:10they're dreaming whenever they're dreaming and they have a whole different repertoire of experiences that they've had because I cherish those moments of lucidity and I specifically want to engage in inquiries about consciousness and no system those kinds of topics so you're saying if we can become prolific enough in knowing when we're dreaming we have the opportunity to get access to information based on our own intentions and a whole world of possibilities just based off of anything that we would like to learn anything that may help us grow in our lives can all become accessible if we can just become more tapped into that awareness right yes and there are a number of people who are prominent public fingers who are prolific lucid dreamers my favorite is Amina Mara

1:27:13of the Dreamworld podcast and she has a podcast called the Dreamworld podcast that you can find on YouTube and other podcast platforms and she just pretty much always knows that she's dreaming when she's dreaming and she does all kinds of outrageous things to verify or to stay in the dream world that which is a whole other topic about once you recognize that you're dreaming how do you maintain that dream state without waking up because most people get so excited that they wake up another there's a young woman named Zoe Maldenado who's in South Africa now who's also a very creative spiritual dreamer there was a whole gaggle of people around the lucidity institute at Stanford in the 1980s who were exploring lucid states of awareness through the dream world

1:28:13and on and on you know Robert Wagner and various authors have really spent a lot of time and a lot of experience and a lot of intentionality over decades practicing and developing their ability as lucid dreamers and I recommend all of that literature you know Robert Moss has wonderful stuff and and on and on the Carlos Castaneda books were probably fiction they were a conglomeration of what he had learned in his anthropological studies and he developed into into a whole imaginal realm of what would be possible but on and on and I spent a decade or two buying every book I could find and reading it and practicing everything and trying it and I highly recommend doing that right on what would you say the difference is between lucid dreaming astral travel and out of body experiences once again nobody knows it's a matter of

1:29:16definition I know the Monroe Institute is very interested in lucid dreaming as an access to out of body experiences the eck and car people are very interested in lucid dreaming as an access to what they call ecstates of awareness the Tibetans recommended as a form of spiritual development astral travel is whatever you say it is but typically the research by the folks who do remote viewing and the folks who've tried to verify whether or not astral travel is real or valid or truthful try to do things like going inside a box with a random number generator and reading the number and that coming back and telling the researchers what the number is or going to a place verifying what's on the other side of a building that can't be seen from your original vantage point and then coming back and describing what was there of course the astral part of astral travel

1:30:21I think that phrase was largely popularized by the theosophists in the first half of the 20th century the notion that there's this astral realm that is like the starry realm that is in like an imaginary realm but has a consistency and a truth and a validity in its own right that we can leave the human state and go into the astral realm and have experiences there past lives you know Shirley McLean's endless cascade of past live memories and that sort of thing that would be astral travel that goes beyond time that we can go out into that out of body experiences it is one kind of what would also be described as astral travel and I kind of side with Stephen LeBarrer's it's pretty much impossible to distinguish between out of body experiences and dreaming the out of body experiences that I have had have been largely when the body was lying down and I couldn't verify whether I was awake but I could verify that it felt like I was dreaming

1:31:25you know I lifted up out of my body turned over and looked at my own face which is a very startling experience or walking into a mirror and turning around and looking at yourself looking into the mirror those kinds of experiences have a lot of validity you can't generally people who have had those kinds of experiences you can't persuade them that it was fantasized right it for them it's a true experience what a lot of people would say it was real but I don't say it was real because it wasn't a thing or yet an experience it was true it was valid for them something I've been exploring a lot lately and I'm fascinated by is how much our perception can affect not only dreams and these altered states but everything in our reality including paranormal experiences and quote unquote contact experiences all these things seem to be filtered through the lens of our perception where we're at emotionally

1:32:31how we view things what we're afraid of all seem to manifest through these different experiences whether it's dreams like a delic experiences near death experiences or even paranormal experiences they seem to pass through that perception filter would you agree? yes the theosophists and others call it the veil not going to the other side getting out of our quote normal taken for granted states of awareness the existentialists in the late 19th and early 20th century use the phrase opriory assumptions are taken for granted assumptions that before we experience we assume that these things are true and in the english-speaking world the subject object distinction is basic in that regard that there is there is a thing that is out there I am a point of consciousness experiencing that thing

1:33:35that's a cultural assertion that is not universal and that is not easy to experience as it turns out because whatever we are experiencing is alive conscious and responsive Candice Odinver from the balance view great freedom movement uses the phrase awareness manifesting as and that's a Tibetan Buddhist phrase the Zogchen Buddhist people say brief moments of awareness repeated many times become continuous and one of their assertions is that everything that we experience is awareness not only me but what I'm experiencing is also aware and responsive and so when we allow that as a possibility and don't keep ourselves stuck in this notion that there are things that are inanimate that are rocks and water and trees that that have no life

1:34:38when we let go of that assumption then we can begin to experience the world in a very different way and the circumstances and the direction of life and the relationships and the communications that we have become much more open because we've opened the doors of perception to use it's like there's layers of perception and once we can come to accept one thing to be real in our reality it opens up new layers and there's seemingly infinite layers yeah holographic in fact like a barbershop hall of mirrors and what seems to be most determined determinative in that regard is what are our assumptions what are our assertions about what is that we're experiencing and that determines what we're capable of experiencing now it's not limitless I can't just decide that I can jump off a building and fly in the waking world and the same in the dream world there are limits to our ability to be the source of the dream

1:35:46most people who have explored that possibility find that there is a not self other or many not self others present in the dream world in the dream stream there are other beings who will communicate with us the dreams dream itself or herself will communicate with us about who we are I one of the reasons that I turned away from lucid dreaming in the mid 90s was first of all I had some experience that were peak experiences that were culminations that I felt like okay I've got what I came for but also because I received a number of communications from various aspects of the dream world that said who I take myself to be when I'm awake the the Freudian nature of an ego or the yoga definition of an ego and an individualized self this cis-hat male American English speaking presence that I take myself to be most of the time is not welcome in the

1:36:49dream stream my notion of who I am is kind of a pollutant in an imaginal realm where anything is possible to limit myself by my normal assumptions of who I am and what the world is is such a trespass it's a violation of the freedom of the dream stream that I don't I don't need to aspire to bring that in there are other ways to experience dreaming and that's what the wisdom of dreaming my book is about is how do you deepen your own experience of the dream stream in ways that have profound meaning and depth and possibility regardless of whether you know that you're dreaming because waking world we can never know that we're not dreaming it's so fascinating let's talk a little bit about dream philosophy what is this sure because I've at the time that that word was given to me I had

1:37:54been studying and exploring dreaming for 30 years and I threw my explorations in consciousness have developed some points of view and some opinions and assessments as a professional as a as an academic which is not a title to which I aspire by the way to be an academic I'm not really an academic I'm an artist my degrees are in the art of human development and I think to take consciousness and try to fit it into science is fraught I don't want to say it's bad but it's very limited I've to with that as an example I have developed points of view that I think are unique and so I began asking the question as I was asking the question it wasn't really a question it was more like an declaration of an intent to explore the living noses let me digress for a moment about noses

1:38:57and the nostic tradition I met a woman who was is a nostic priest which is a form of heresy in itself because she was ordained by a bishop in a Catholic tradition that is more conservative than anything coming out of Rome and the ancient Catholic traditions very much ordained women women were prominent in the community at cum ron that was described in the Dead Sea Scrolls and this woman had known one of the translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls and she known one of the translators of the Nakamadi library and some of the editors of those ancient texts and she taught me a lot about noses about noses being the assumption that it's possible to directly experience divine states of awareness to know God to know goddess to know the sacrament of all life directly without the interventionist intermediaries like saints or Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad blessed be his name or

1:40:03and anyone who might act as an intermediary we don't need a step down terminal in order to experience divinity the divinity of all life to be in the presence of a divine being most of the divine beings are not dangerous to pure consciousness so when we're in a conscious state of awareness to be present to a divine being it doesn't mean we're going to get blown away the old testament definition of an awful God that we should be an awe of God because when if we really were in the presence of pure godliness we would get blown away that's not necessarily true and so I learned about that and also the manifest world and the sacrament of things like lilies and pure refreshed water and the things that we can experience when we're awake in our quote normal states of awareness as sacrament so I was learning about all of that and and I was very interested in

1:41:06inquiring into the living noces what is noces I went through a series of dreams which we may or may not have time to talk about but coming out of that process I was asking the question what is my work who am I what is if I think about pivotal thinkers in the history of human consciousness and the secret societies and the ancient wisdom do I have anything to contribute that is unique that is valuable am I just a consumer of information or do I have something to say that is the expression of something maybe new maybe ancient but maybe unique that that is pivotal in the history of human consciousness and if I did what would it be the phrase that I was given by these angelic beings of love and light in a dream was on your own no stick wholehearted limnoscopy the acronym is

1:42:12OWL and the symbol of the owl came along with that over a period of decades so I started talking to marketers about okay I got this ancient tradition it's called on your own no stick allhearted limnoscopy I want to get it out to the world and without exception they all said it'll never happen you will not be able to communicate that to anybody who isn't already interested that might be an advanced level but you need an introductory level you need an entrance point for people who don't even know what dreaming is or don't recall their dreams or you know you've got to have something that if you want to make a living at this you have to have a phrase that people can understand so the first suggestion this would be around 2017 and there's a whole 20 year history to get into when we have time one of the marketers in St. Louis said how about dreamology you know why don't you just call it dreamology so we went out on the web and checked out dreamology and there's only like a hundred thousand people using the phrase dreamology so that obviously wasn't going to work

1:43:17but then I was thinking about philosophy and theosophy and anthroposophy and in the monastic tradition the most holy Sophia is the feminine incarnation of wisdom the life of the world the logos is the christ the expression the logic and the the definite part of it Sophia is the aliveness of it all she's what gives life to the world and so having that meaning of wisdom I suggested what about dreamosophy we checked that on the web and there was one person selling jewelry on Facebook using the word dreamosophy and there were no other occurrences of it we contacted her and she said I'm not doing it anymore you can have it same like the guys who had developed the wisdom of dreaming process she she said you know don't worry about it you can have it so we chose dreamosophy as the wisdom of dreaming because it was an entrance point that people they don't totally understand it generates inquiry but they know the word dream and they know the

1:44:20word philosophy and so it's not totally foreign and it's not as complicated as on your monastic whole hearted limnoscopy so that's where dreamosophy came from right let's talk a little bit about the intelligences that we can communicate with you mentioned that angelic beings helped to provide this information for you and you hear this quite often I have my own experiences with benevolent intelligences or guides during these experiences altered stage dreams synchronisities but there seems to be a duality within this as well often people come into contact with intelligences that seem to not have their best interest in mind tricksters manipulators intelligences that seem to be very service to self and my question is are these part of our experiences are these negative intelligences supposed to be here are they for us to learn and grow from in a sense or is it a

1:45:26parasitic infiltration of some sort what are your thoughts no way right again no way to know complete mystery no no way to know whether the person in front of you it's a person or a shapeshifter and it's a benign or an evil or manipulative being I only know my own experience which is a spectrum that I periodically encounter a presence of absolute evil and almost always in the dream stream and the only thing I know to do when that shows up is wake up there are lots of people who say oh well you should confront that being and you should engage in a dialogue and you should transform it because it's a part of yourself no not interested in going anywhere near that because what if I'm right right what what if that actually is an evil presence and by and it is out to not kill me but end my existence as a distinguished self and and and if I went anywhere near it poof

1:46:32that's it I'm no more me I'm not ready to do that yet so I just wake up I running doesn't work you know transforming shapeshifting doesn't work it's just terrifying to me to be in that presence fortunately I've only solidly experienced that in the dream stream so that I can wake up in between that is a level of what I call impish awareness that are these kind of playful but not entirely benign presences that are sort of mischievous that are going to they're like hackers like 12-year-old hackers that just sort of get in to find out if they can get in and and mess things up by accident around purpose within no sense of the consequences of what they're doing and kind of like the character q in the star trek series who was a you know this omnipresent omnipotent god presence that had been kicked out of the continuum because he was not in harmony with the nature of

1:47:37universe that's done orderly good I would did one of my out of body experiences I raised up out of my body and I turned over and I looked at my face and this is in the early 90s when I was working with Stephen LeBarrish at the the city of the institute and I did a cosmic zoom I raised up to where I could see the whole area that I was in and then I could see the whole consciousness and then I pulled out into space and I could see the earth and I pulled out further into space and I could see the solar system and then as I pulled out into the milky way and moving out towards the edge of the milky way and the earth was not even a dot of light you know our solar system wasn't even a dot of light I remember thinking I'm not sure how to get that so I was just thinking and as I was thinking that these two impish consciousnesses went zooming past me at something like the speed of light you know at the speed of imagination at a really really fast pace and they

1:48:37said we're in and I knew that in that moment I had let go of my place in the manifest world and they were going to take it and so once again the only thing I knew to do was wake up and I made it back before they did but I fully believe that if I had not done that I would have been abandoned in outer darkness because I wouldn't have known how to get back to the solar system. Essentially this consciousness would have taken over your physical body is what you're saying? Yeah like a walk-in sort of thing. Exactly and so you know we hear a lot about that about people who go through these life crises and then and they almost die or they do die and then some a very different quality of being comes in and takes over their life like Ruth Montgomery talked about like there's it's almost like one individual's role was to prepare a body and a personal history and a cultural context for work to be done and then that preparatory steward leaves

1:49:44and the person with a mission comes in and pursues that mission. That's yes like that. Well while we're in and I wasn't ready to have that. I can imagine while we're in the deep woo-woo waters here let's talk a little bit about the possibility of entering different realities that multiple realities are unfolding at the same time we live multiple existences and it may be possible for us to hop over to that timeline through altered states or dream states and I've had a couple of guests that have actually claimed to do this and one that claimed to have done it through a near death experience where they died came back but the reality was slightly different in many different ways. What are your thoughts on that? I said either work of Elizabeth Kubler Ross for a number of years and did some work with her on fundraising and concept development and she

1:50:49had compiled over 3,000 incidents of near death experiences with children. Unfortunately someone else stole her research and published it without her permission and it broke her heart and she never actually published her work on life after life experiences and one of the things that she had done was she studied children who had had near death experiences and the familiar sequence of going through the tunnel and the buzzing sound and being greeted by a loving presence of being of light and having a life review and then being given either the choice or the instruction to come back is so consistent across cultures it's quite eerie. She documented for example that when you greet this being of light if you're three years old who would you most want to see

1:51:51if you're alone? Mommy or Auntie or whoever your primary caregiver is and she said in 3,000 incidents of children having these experiences she never once heard from a child who was greeted by Mommy if Mommy was still alive. They were always greeted by their grandfather or their sister that they had never met and the parents had never told the child that there'd been a crib death and that they had a sibling that they had never heard about and they come back and say mommy I met my sister and she said to tell you that I'm fine. I had a corrections officer in Ohio tell me an experience that she had I was training corrections officers how to deliver the wisdom of dreaming process to people who are incarcerated as it was a course called how to be free in your dreams

1:52:52and this woman came up to me at a break and she said I'm a Catholic and my family's Catholic and when I was younger my brother committed suicide and she said that some kids in school came up to me and said you know your brothers in hell right because suicide is immortal sin and she said I was really really disturbed by that I was like not sleeping well and I was so terrified because I loved my brother and I didn't want him to be in hell and she said I dreamt his name was David they called him Davey she said I dreamt that I saw him sitting in this chair that was his chair that we called it the Davey chair Davey's chair and he was sitting in his chair and he stood up and he came towards me and he was wearing this pendant that was gold and shimmering and so bright that shone like the light of the sun and she said I could smell his cologne and he gave great hugs we call them Davey hugs and he came up and he gave me a Davey hug and he said don't worry Michelle I'm fine and I woke up

1:53:52and she said when I woke up I felt this tremendous sense of relief to know that he was okay and almost all people who have visitation dreams like that where they meet a loved one who's died they say it's real it's true it's a valid experience it's not imagined and she said after a few weeks I started to doubt myself I thought maybe I had made it all up and it was just wishful thinking and it was just a dream and then I started to send back into this disillusionment and despair and she said my best friend came to me and she said Michelle I haven't wanted to talk with you about this because I didn't think you'd believe me or I thought you might think that I'm interfering in your process but I had this dream a few weeks ago and I saw Davey sitting in his Davey chair and he stood up and he was wearing this pendant that shone so brightly that was like the light of the sun and I could smell his cologne and he came over and gave me a Davey hug and he said tell Michelle I'm okay you know I almost can't tell that story without crying because it's such an

1:55:00affirmation of what our world so desperately needs to recognize that there are other states of awareness and there are living beings who are present there who want to love us who can give depth and meaning to our lives in ways that we can't find in the waking world and that really is has been a hallmark of my life's work for more than 60 years is to identify and document those states of awareness where we can know that it's okay now do you that all of this is part of a pattern of some cosmic universal pattern of harmonious movement and rest and we fit in that pattern we're not observing that pattern we are that pattern 100% you know that's okay I was just going to ask if you believe that there are multiple versions of us and our realities unfolding at the same time maybe slightly different what do you think about that yeah I don't think so to me it's holographic and it's like snowflakes I just don't think that there are replicas

1:56:07uh and quantum physics might imply otherwise you know parallel universes and and any possibility that is possible that could happen is happening in some parallel universe it doesn't feel like that to me and I honestly I don't know but my sense is this is it there's there's one of you there's one of me we never have been before we never will be again but we may be persistent the a lot of the Eastern traditions that that posit reincarnation uh say that it takes a thousand incarnations to to become human and that if you don't cherish the moment of consciousness that is being human and use it to develop morally and ethically and to deepen your sense of self and to to know who you are as a human in ways that only humans can we can lose it and the next time we get back to individualized

1:57:11consciousness it may be as a cockroach or a rock and it may take another hundred thousand years to get back to being human that kind of has a ring of truth to me it feels like this is the point of the cone you know where there's this nexus point that everything comes through this moment and if we recognize that then we can evolve a sense of self that will persist if we don't master knee-watching says then you will be bound to your biological destiny then when the body dies you die that's it all that's left is a bunch of habit patterns and we see that in dementia as people descend that they become less and less individualized and more and more just an archetypal old human and all that's left is habit patterns and at some point you know they just go away but then you talk to somebody who says yeah grandma died but I saw her last night right you know my mom

1:58:12came to me and my dad came to me so I you know I don't know what to say about that it just feels like there's a continuum of consciousness that maybe persists beyond the death of the body. Well we've got a few minutes left and I know dreams is just one of the many things that you research and immerse your work in tell us a little bit about some of the other things that you're involved with. Well thank you for asking about that because there is a lot more to life than study some consciousness and my father was a sociologist my mother was a probation officer also a pilot and that lawyer they were incredible human beings and they instilled in me two things one is to leave the world a better place than we found it. I don't think that I'm just here to make contributions to the local sewage treatment plant. I think that we we can make something of our lives that represents being a positive contribution and I've explored many ways to do that I started out with social

1:59:17change and racism and justice when I was five years old our dance teacher at Pacific Acroir Friends School in Temple City California was at Chirochawa Apache Princess and she had us writing letters and drawing pictures and sending them to the Peabody Coal Company to ask them not to mine the sacred maces of the Hopian the Navajo for coal and to destroy their sacrament and I've been on Navajo mountain and it's an incredibly spiritual place and it's tragic that they tried to mine it for coal and a lot of those sacred maces were destroyed that was one of my earliest memories and then working on racism and integration in the 60s and you know people talk about Kumbaya moments you know I was there and we sang Kumbaya and we thought that was all it was going to take and we didn't finish we didn't get it done but we got it started and so I think it's important to recognize that we all have an opportunity to move the process of an emerging culture of harmony

2:00:18and kindness and respect for each other and life that we do what we can to bring that forth in our own way and it's an iterative process it's a spiral not a circle and so it gets better and better so I've always had an affinity for prison reform I think that social criminality is a mystery but it's one that we don't put enough attention to early childhood traumas and what does it take to create a culture of child rearing where children are taken care of their fed and their clothed and their loved and their given opportunities to express themselves so that they don't become criminals so that they don't become cheaters I think we I would I'm much more interested in that one then whether or not an asteroid is going to hit the earth or how to make a better weapon you know one of my favorite bumper stickers in the 1960s was what if education had all the money it needed and the Navy had to have a bake sale to buy to build a battleship

2:01:19and I think we've got our priorities upside down and so I spent a long time in environmental education and protecting nature I still work on prison reform I've been in probably 20 prisons in the last 10 or 15 years talking with wardens about putting gardens on their prison yards and introducing dog programs and recycling and using energy more efficiently and giving treating people with respect and having the opportunity for corrections officers to be safe and cared for and properly paid and taken care of but also then giving them the license the freedom to treat people in their custody with respect and how different the world would be if we started treating each other with dignity and respect I'm not a prison abolitionist I think we right now the way society as we need prisons there are a lot of people in prisons that I don't want as neighbors but that doesn't mean that prisons have to be places of punishment their process of separation

2:02:20whereas we we we don't feel safe having somebody around so we create a place of dignity and respect and kindness where they can live safely and not present a danger to the rest of us so that's that's an important value and I've always loved international folk dancing I don't know why particularly men's dances from Bulgaria no cultural ethnic heritage connection there at all I just feel an affinity for it a bunch of communists in the 1930s started international folk dancing as a way to promote cultural exchange and bring peace through dance and song and I stumbled onto that in the 1950s and just loved the spirit of dancing together holding hands moving together all doing the same pattern of movement that has an ancient history that goes it's those old as the campfire and I've just I've taught dancing to over 150,000 people I have two little groups in Ashland that I promote one is my octogenarian group on Friday nights we have eight octogenarians who get together to

2:03:24dance and been dancing together for 30 or 40 years and then on Sunday that same group of people opens up a little wider we have live music and we have maybe 25 or 30 people who come together in Ashland or again just to sing and dance together and that floats my boat it gives me the the strength to keep on keeping on as we just get together and sing and dance and then I go back to work on protecting nature and reforming prisons and protecting pollinators and things like that during the week thank you for asking excellent one more thing before we close out how do you feel about the collective state of spiritual awareness at this time on a scale of one to a hundred we're at a one or two there's so much opportunity first of all for personal experience and then to identify precepts and morals and ethics that can allow us to

2:04:29live together in harmony and that will be contextualized when we formally establish communication with other conscious beings who are not human who take us down to a level of humility that being human is not the top of the food chain and is not the most advanced or developed state of consciousness that there is the beings who do crop circles and the some of the beings who are known as unidentified anomalous phenomena the new phrase for UFOs is UAPs the work that Danny Sheen and others are doing to bring forth the scientific knowledge and history about other beings that have visited us when we pierce that veil and it won't happen until humanity is ready and we have a long way to go to develop peace and cooperation and harmony to be ready to meet other beings but you know we're just not even getting started we're getting ready to get started in on the real spiritual development

2:05:34well right on Paul thank you so much this was fantastic definitely love to have you back on in the future there's so much more we could get into before we close out remind the audience how they can find out more about you and pick up your books sure dreamosophy.com is the website it rhymes with philosophy dr-e-m-o-s-o-p-h-y.com you can reach me as Paul at dreamosophy.com and if you google dreamosophy you'll likely find something about us and me and so i'd love to hear from many of your listeners who who feel an affinity for any of the topics we've discussed today and i would jump at the chance to come back anytime you want to invite you. Excellent thank you again Paul great conversation and until next time everyone have a wonderful evening we talk again tomorrow. Hello friends at some point in our journeys we all need guidance and direction one thing I've

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