Finding Courage in the Dark: Darin Kinder & Sam Eaton

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1:03Welcome to the Jesus Calling podcast. This week as the country remembers the 25th anniversary of 9-11, we're talking with Deer and Kinder, a retired secret service agent who survived the September 11th attacks and was later awarded a Medal of Valor for his actions that day. Kinder recounts the chaos of that morning from treating the wounded on the street to making the choice to go back into a collapsing tower to help others get out. Later in the episode we feature Sam Eaton. After enduring years of severe depression, the former music teacher had made plans to take his own life on Christmas Day in 2011. However, a single pivotal question intervened at the final second, steering him toward a new direction and a mission to support others through their own darkest trials. Let's begin with Deer and Story. My name is Deer and Kinder. I'm a former secret service agent. I retired not long ago. After 25 years of service there, I'm a survivor of the World Trade Center attack.

2:07I'm a Medal of Valor recipient for my actions that day. On September 11th, 2001, I was assigned to our New York Field Office and I was in my office and our office building was seven World Trade Centers. That was part of the World Trade Center complex. We had just finished working out a group of us and we were in the gym getting in the locker room, getting dressed, putting on clean suits for a long day. We were told to evacuate immediately. At that point we didn't know what was going on but the moment I dumped out into the street and looked up, I was 20 yards or so across the street from the north side of the North Tower. That's the first tower that was hit and I looked up and saw flames just spewing and pouring out of the building and I didn't know what it was. I didn't know exactly all that had gone on but I knew that wasn't a mistake. That wasn't an accident. That first plane hit with brutal precision but little did we know that was just beginning.

3:08We went in to our first responder mode and we grabbed our first aid kits and everything that we had and we just ran as a group about 30 of us to an area where there was a bunch of ambulances, treating patients and we just started treating the wounded. After our evacuation and subsequent rendering medical aid and care on the west side highway there, after the second plane impacted, that's when myself and two other co-workers, colleagues, entered into the North Tower, Tower 1, to try to help people escape. Moments before the impact of the second plane, does that plane King screeching over my head slammed into the South Tower. I was about 80 yards from the base of that tower and I can feel the heat on the back of my neck. Debris falling everywhere, raining jet fuel that's burning and we all just at that point scattered like ants and at that point myself and two other agents decided to enter into the North Tower to help people get out and as we went into the North Tower we found a

4:13stairwell that people were evacuating out of and we just went up. We entered in and got up to about the 10th floor of the North Tower, Tower 1 and we encountered a woman who was, she could no longer evacuate herself, she was exhausted and I carried her down with the help of another man and I told the other two agents I was with that I would see them at their next point of need and I carried her down and then decided when I got to the bottom as I handed her off to some paramedics that I needed to go back up because at that point I was unsteady, I was timid a little bit, I was even a little afraid, I was unsure and that's because that was the first time that day I was alone and I needed to be of my brothers and I went back up and I got to about the 30th floor of the North Tower and that's when I encountered a large group of New York City firefighters and I had a brief conversation with them and I was not able to find my other colleagues, the two other agents that I had been with and I decided at that point to go back down, look for my

5:16friends, look for my colleagues and at that point I heard the firefighter commander say something like this, get your gear together boys were going back up and I will forever honor the firefighter community, the first responder community when I tell this story because I didn't know all the circumstances, I was still kind of ignorant, I was blind to all the facts, they knew the threat, they knew the cost and those men and women went up anyways and I have no way of knowing for sure but I can only assume that they're part of the 343 New York City firefighters who died that day, answering the bell, answering the call or running to the threat so that others may live, they embraced the embodiment of what we all must as ambassadors of Christ, as witnesses for Christ, we do that work so that others may live in Christ and they were doing it that day when they went back up. I was standing outside the complex, when I looked up I heard a noise, I looked up and I saw the top of tower two buckle and begin to collapse and I was, gosh, a hundred yards

6:22or less from the base of that tower and here comes a 110 floor building on top of your head and I thought I was dead, the Holy Spirit told me to run and so I started running and as I was running each floor, I was pancaking on the next and I was like a concussion, a thunder clap and each one's getting louder and closer and at that point I heard the roar, the roar that huge stormed debris cloud coming my way and I tried to outrun it, large chunks of debris started to fall all around me and just as that started happening that beautiful crystal clear blue day went to a dark night of horror, honestly. My eyes, my lungs, everything was filled with pulverized concrete and other materials and I was still sprinting and running because large chunks of debris were still falling all around me and after I got a few more seconds I was out of that kill zone but I'm still in the blackness and I see sunlight out of the corner of my eye and I run across the street, I stagger across the street to the sunlight and I'm looking north up in alley and I see

7:22that there's sunlight that way and my first thought was sweet, let's get out of here, let's go to the light. But I stopped because that blanket that suffocating debris cloud, it just suffocated all noise except for the screams, the cries that people in the darkness and they were just yelling things like I can't see somebody help me, I need help, someone come here, where am I? I'm lost, all these cries out into the darkness and so I stood there, I stood there in the mouth of the alley with the sunlight behind me and I just shouted at the top of my lungs, follow the sound of my voice and there is light this way, follow the sound of my voice, come this way to the light and about 10 to 15 people made their way to me over time and I would send them up the alley and shoot them up to the light, is that not the perfect spiritual metaphor for how we are called to live in the stark world today, we are called to be that man that woman standing in the alley pointing people to the light of life, those who follow me will not walk in darkness but will have the light of life said Jesus and that's our mission as witnesses of

8:26Christ, as ambassadors representing Christ, to be the man, to be the woman standing in the alley, pointing people to the light of the world and I wasn't thinking that at the time but as I reflected on that time later, I decided that's what I was going to spend the rest of my days on this earth doing. I've heard it said sometimes God creates miracles but most of the time he creates people, he creates his followers to address the hurt, the pain, the suffering in this world and so I like to say that this world is full of problems and you and I were created to be part of this solution for at least one. So what does that look like and how do you discern that and how do you follow the will of God so that you can be used for his glory in your joy? At the end of the day on September 11th, I was rendezvousing with all of my other co-workers, it was four of us, we had served and fought together as a team all day. We finally found out where everyone else was rendezvousing and we went

9:26up about 30 blocks north and we entered this large room and the four of us were beaten and bloodied and destroyed. We have been rendering aid and carrying people and we have been fighting fires with fire equipment and all kinds of crazy things and my pants were like three inches shorter at the end of the day because they kept keptching fire. The souls of my shoes were malformed and melted from the heat and we just looked at Haggard and Horrible and there's a large group of co-workers and colleagues and they looked just like we did. They had answered the bell they had been in the fight. I want to encourage people to get outside of the walls of their church and engage humanity, engage the problem, bring the love of Christ, bring the light of Christ into the dark places. You don't enter a dark room, open the window and kind of shovel the darkness out. No, no, no, you got to bring in the light and so what is it? What is that arena for you? There's just so many arenas out there that are waiting for their gladiator just to show up. Enter the arena, shoulder to shoulder with brothers and sisters like-minded people that bring skills and talents and abilities that you don't have. There's no better place to get your suit dirty.

10:29I was sitting on my sofa on September 12th the next day and as I'm processing this and I'm grieving with my wife and we're praying and I made it in mission to the Lord that I shouldn't be here but I said I fully understand that you could have taken me at least three times the day before and so I made a promise that I was going to spend the rest of my days serving His purposes and He started to put on me a heart for men's ministry for discipling and educating men and raising them up and equipping them to live lives of courage and integrity and He gave me four sons along the way, started in 2006 and that was tremendous and so now yes 25 years later after that day I have this ministry fierce faith that encourages and equips men to live lives of bold courage pursue the God-given purpose the purpose that He has placed upon them the reason He created them

11:31for this time and this place in this world and that's what we're doing at fierce faith and raising four sons sending them out into the world it's it can be a dark place and so Jesus calling in other devotional type books I love them because they can be conversational starters around the breakfast table or around the dinner table which is great and that's how my wife uses them in our house I use them more for hey let's get a nugget let's get an arrow of God's truth open it up to any day in the devotional because my wife likes to go through it I'm more random and open it up and say what's the truth here what truth about God about Jesus about faith is this scripture is this passion speaking to and now take that out with you as you leave this door and go out into the world arming yourself with the truth so that's why I love Jesus calling and today when I pray I focus out loud on the promises of God his book is just full of one promise after another all his promises are true now that I've recently retired I'm in a new world I'm

12:36I'm swimming in new waters now my prayer is okay Lord I'm here I'm here because I feel like you called me here what's next what's the next little thing you want me to knock down what's the next thing you want me to address what's the next stronghold you want me to bust and if you want me to bust this stronghold how am I going to do it like give me the power give me the wisdom give me the discernment to be used by you and so although many would say my 25 years in the Sikh of service was navigating high-risk environments in a threatening world and that was true this new world feels a lot scarier to me and so I'm also praying for courage for boldness to be a man that walks the walk not just talks the talk to learn more about daren kinder visit daren kinder calm and be sure to check out his new book bury me in a dirty suit discovering man's valiant purpose in the aftermath of 9-11 at your favorite retailer stay tuned to Sam Eaton story after a brief message hey listeners it's Kelly from Life Audio we know life gets busy and sometimes it's

13:43easy for your faith to get pushed to the side that's why we created the good word a free weekly newsletter designed to give you a moment to slow down be encouraged and reconnect with what matters most God's word inside you'll find devotionals guided prayers podcast recommendations and other faith-built content we think you'll love no ads no clutter just good content to help you stay rooted in God's word throughout your week sign up for the good word today at lifeaudio.com forward slash the good word that's lifeaudio.com forward slash the good word these uncertain times bring anxiety and fear but Jesus listens prayers for every season gives you daily prayers of comfort with seasonally inspired illustrations this beautiful book includes prayers that speak to your situation whether it's a time of stress or strength look for

14:46Jesus listens prayers for every season wherever you buy books our next guest is Sam Eaton a former music teacher who wants planned his own death on Christmas day and instead chose to stay and to spend the years since helping others find a way through their darkest moments my name is Sam Eaton I'm an author speaker and founder of Recklessly Alive and the work I do is really focused on helping people who've lost hope and who feel like maybe life isn't worth living I've had some deep struggles with depression and suicidal ideation and out of those struggles there's just always been something in me that wants to help that wants to love people that wants to reach back into the hardest parts of my story and help somebody who is where I was I grew up with an alcoholic father who as a result of that disease just caused a lot of pain

15:48in my life coming home from school I didn't know if it was going to be a laughing jokie kind of a drunk day or a chair throwing day and it created in me this kid that was just really afraid of the world my kindergarten teacher actually recommended that my mom hold me back for a year because I used to hide under the table in kindergarten and I was very timid and afraid of everything afraid to live afraid to try one of the gifts he did give me was he would take me and my sister to Sunday school if we asked him and so church became this really safe place amid the storm outside it was this place that felt calm and peaceful the people there were a bit different than the people I was used to encountering I didn't really know god or or even know if I believed in him then there was just a warmth and a love that I felt from a place like that even in those hardest parts my dad left when I was 12 I haven't seen him since I haven't had a relationship with him he had been having an affair he was a part of a murder investigation there was just lots of financial trauma for us a

16:50lot of emotional trauma but on the outside I was doing fine like none of my teachers really knew what I was going through even in middle school I had straight A's I was on the basketball team and I I've really felt like oh I have to hold this together for my mom and my sister I have to be the one who kind of get us through this storm but when I got to high school things really fell apart for the first time in my life I couldn't concentrate or focus I started writing on my math papers I hate my life suddenly I found myself at night thinking you know maybe I shouldn't have been born maybe I was a mistake maybe I should have never existed and those are thoughts that I've had to work on and challenge even through my adult life and thoughts that a lot of people regardless of if they've shared we'll say that they've experienced it some part you know sometimes in the church world we say oh I'm just waiting for God to take me home right but we have all these little ways of saying like oh man I'm ready for this to be over and and they were so loud and so intense but nobody told me what I was experiencing has a name and it's called depression it's a common and serious medical illness especially in the church nobody ever talked to me about

17:52depression and suicide until I was the one encouraging the church to have these conversations I had this really pivotal moment in November 2011 my life had really hit rock bottom I was in my first year of teaching I graduated college with over $90,000 of student loan debt I didn't understand the world of college I was the first person in my family to go to college and I felt so stupid and ashamed that I had made that choice and that I didn't understand what that would look like especially as a new teacher making $30,000 a year I'd ended a really important relationship that I had in college someone who just meant the world to me but even then I knew in my mental health I felt like I wasn't good enough for her that I couldn't give her life that she wanted and then I watched her very quickly fall in love with somebody else and marry somebody else which really hit the core deep feelings that I wasn't worthy of someone else of a healthy relationship I had moved back home where some of the most traumatic moments of my life had happened

18:53and I hadn't been to therapy or done any work around letting some of that stuff go and so that was kind of rising back up in me I started drinking a lot to cope with that and I truly kind of craved some of those moments of forgetting who I was but of course now I know how much worse that made it how much that worsens anxiety and depression but this kind of perfect storm led to this moment in November of that year I was driving around in my car and I was just screaming at God which is so angry and crying and so mad because so much of the messaging I had heard in my Christian journey was you know God has great plans for your life you know we hear that so often and of course I believe but in moments of extreme pain when you can't see hope I was like oh God wow you must really hate me if this is the great plans that you had for your life so much pain that I'm not even sure I want to be alive how can you be a good God how can this be it and with that we're experiencing suicidal thoughts our brain is sick they've actually done brain scans and parts of your brain aren't

19:57lighting up the way that they should so it's a multitude of things it's like you don't feel the hope and the love of your family and friends because your brain is sick and on top of that I was resisting a lot of the things that were good or that could have helped me and I didn't have the strength of the courage to open up about it I kept it really internal and so as I'm driving through that car and I'm crying and I'm I'm thinking about when or if or how and finally I just I gave a dangerous ultimatum I said God on December 25th I'm either going to end my life or I'm never going to think about this again and at that point I had been living already 10 years almost in that amount of pain I just said I can't do this for another 50 years so I wrote that in a journal I went home and I spent most of that next month not always every day thinking I was absolutely going to do this you know we hear a lot about the selfishness of suicidal thoughts and it's funny because even in those moments I was deeply thinking about my family I was thinking how could I make this easy for them again my brain being sick I truly thought their life would be better off without me

21:05I woke up on Christmas day I got out of our family Christmas stuff and I I put a note on the bathroom door I said please don't come in I didn't want anyone to have to find me and I spent most of the day wrestling with this and and I describe it as just the closest thing to hell that somebody could experience like imagine so much pain that you can't even think about your friends and family I would lay down on the cold tile floor cry I would stand back up and the voices in my head were so loud and you know I'm having all these flashes of just really horrible things these moments of bullying and abuse and so I started counting backwards from 10 10 9 8 I saw that the most painful moments flashing before me and then 7 6 I saw these really happy moments things I would miss my family and friends and then 5 4 somewhere about 3 this question or this feeling really broke through and the feeling was have you really given life everything you've got

22:06because if you have Sam it's okay you can give up this can be the end and but I'm not sure that you have tried everything to heal and to create this life that you want to live to get help to go out into the world and and be bold and be the kind of person that you want to be so in the bravest moment of my whole life I grabbed the things I grabbed the note off the bathroom door I got my car and I just started driving and I sat in this abandoned parking lot downtown Minneapolis I watched the minutes tick by 1158 1159 midnight I had made it and I had decided to stay and I I went home I caught in bed went to sleep woke up the next day emotional stability restored I wish I could say that everything was healed and the life was perfect from then on out it's been a long journey of therapy of getting help of learning how to care for my brain and my body learning how

23:07to connect with God learning about the truths that God says about who I am and who I made to be but ultimately I've used that question to save me time and time again it's have you really given life everything you've got because I I think that's the life that Jesus calls us to to be brave and courageous and to give it what we've got you know no matter how hopeless we might feel there's always a little more in us especially when we have him on our side unfortunately depression and suicide of thoughts are something I still battle there's so many parts of the Bible that talk about depression and suicide maybe they didn't have the language but so many of those stories talk about people feeling like they don't know if they want to still be alive if they can continue you know God take my life you know the Psalms they're crying out to God about how painful life can be and strangely that's so comforting to know that what I have experienced it's part of the human story I'm not messed up I'm not a mistake like I was made on

24:07purpose for a purpose and that there's been this good God who's been this quiet and gentle voice that's willing to meet us when we make a little time for him Jesus calling has been a big part of that for me I've had that book for years something about the way that Sarah Young wrote that book that feels like just warmth it feels like a hug it feels like someone whispering through the strength we lose almost 50,000 people a year to suicide in the US we just have to be willing to talk about it to have these hard conversations and to encourage people to seek the medical help that can help them like it has helped me create a life that they they want to live and that they can love I spend a lot of time focusing on high schools and university and those moments is so hard to see you can't see what 30 is going to be like can my story just give someone enough chance to not make a rash decision and try to keep moving through it I'm reading from Jesus listens March 26th ever present God the most important fact of my existence

25:15is that you are perpetually with me taking care of me I'm thankful that you are not limited by time or space and that your presence with me is a forever promise so I have a good reason to face the future calmly trusting that you are already there your word assures me that when I make the quantum leap into eternity I will find you awaiting me in heaven since my future is in your hands I don't need to worry about tomorrow whenever I start to feel anxious help me hear you saying my child do not worry lord I want to live this day abundantly seeing all there is to see doing all there is to do instead of being distracted by future concerns I'll try to entrust them to you each day of life is a glorious gift from you but I confess that I struggle to live within the confines of today often my energy for abundant living spills over the timeline into tomorrow's worries or past regrets

26:16when I waste my precious energy in this way I limp through the day instead of living it to the full but when I keep my focus on your presence in the present I can walk confidently living exuberantly in your trusted name Jesus to learn more about Sam Eaton visit recklesslyalive.com and be sure to check out his book you can do this daily affirmations to live recklessly alive at your favorite retailer if you'd like to hear more stories about binding hope through depression check out our interview with Jay Louder next time on the Jesus Calling podcast we'll hear from David Pollock who heard a doctor tell him you broke your neck one play into a second NFL season then who later learned to trust God with something even harder his wife's cancer diagnosis there's going to be a time in your life

27:19to carry across you didn't earn you didn't deserve and you don't want and and here's the thing how you gonna carry it thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith podcast on the live audio network every week we'll bring you stories from people who share their journeys of faith and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives be sure to follow us on apple spotify i heart or wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review so others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith finally you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus Calling website at jesuscalling.com this is Chris Christensen back in 2006 i started a simple project a project to try and introduce more people to the bible through bible study called the bible study podcast it's a simple day and a simple idea each week

28:21every week we study one chapter of the bible talk about what it says and what that might mean for us today to listen now go to lifeaudio.com or search for the bible study podcast on your favorite podcast app the historical Jesus podcast is the sweeping saga of the life and times of galalean Jesus of Nazareth as well as the faith religion and church founded to honor and disseminate his acts and teachings join me mark vnet on this fascinating journey through time exploring the many great works of christian theology literature architecture music and art inspired by the words and deeds of jesus christ