Expectation is for the Commanders to be active in FA. With Dan Graziano

0:00Ampire. Hello, and welcome to my podcast. Do me a favor, subscribe to the John Kahn report wherever you get your podcast if you are watching it. You do hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, you can find us there as part of Ampire Media, Ampire Re, always much appreciated when you tune and don't forget you can read my work on ESPN.com of a story up, I do have a story up now about the Commanders of Framely and just how they're going to be aggressive. So I'm going to talk more about that over the weekend and maybe play you a Clipper 2 from an interview I have with Dan Quinn that clearly they have a good feel for their approach. Now the direction they go in all these spots, we'll see, but I am going to talk a little bit about it over the weekend. Today though, I'm bringing on Dan Graziano from ESPN of course, you know him, he's covered the league for a long time and he writes a column with Jeremy Fowler, all these news

1:03and notes like after the combine they wrote it so he can check that out. Good stuff on free agency, always plugged in. So I wanted to talk to Dan about things that he's hearing about whether it's about this team or other players, players that these guys might be interested in what the market is for them, the cost perhaps and all that good stuff. So stay tuned for that and really I don't have a whole lot else to say before we get there because the commanders as I record this have not resigned, well actually they're resigned Drake Jackson Thursday morning, that was an ex, I kind of anticipated that one because it made sense. I knew that they liked him and you know he's coming off the, he just got back from an injury and they liked him enough to keep him around while he rehabbed and went and played a couple games so the plan was always to then bring him back, see what he has and what he can offer after recovering from a really bad knee injury. I mean that was a, you get that Torrent Teller 10 and like that is a tough, tough deal but he came back and so you know he showed enough in two games that they want him back but this, so anyways, but him resigning out there is a one year deal, not a surprise at

2:07all, it's what I anticipated, they again they brought back Dieter twice, Shy Tuddle. I think they're going to address that D line for short not just edge but I think when you start to see some backup type coming in that guys you know rotational pieces for short. So anyways, just going to be a part of that, they need to build up both of those lines, like they have, you know I like the foundation what they have on their offensive line, they have three very good players in place and I think they can make, I think they can make that work very well still and I think in this offense it should help them as well. So but you've got to build up that defensive line and you know I think as we've seen in the past it's not just about talent, it's about fit but there are some guys available that are going to be very tempting for them and then also again building up that depth to fit with Dorante Jones wants from that defensive front. So anyways, I'm going to be talking a lot about that over the weekend and but I want to bring Dan on today since we had I talked him today and like I don't want any of this stuff to get old that he and I talked about so that's why I'm learning this one today.

3:10So and by the way, if you haven't checked out like Bram and Ben standing and I did like a little trilogy of doing each of our podcasts so Ben took the first leg and talked about the offense. I had the late you know part two which was about the defense that was on my that was on for my podcast and then Bram was was a batting you know batting third in this one and kind of did a state of the union. So that's on his and so you can check out Empire Media, get them all and just see what we had to say. Each one is about 25 minutes or so fun stuff and I hope you enjoyed it. So anyways, that's it for me. Here's my conversation with ESPN's Dan Graziano. The NBA and NHL seasons are heating up and baseball is right around the corner and for all of your needs go to Fandall to check out all of the great options they have for you to place your bets and get in on all of the action.

4:11How about that trade deadline flipping things around for a number of the contenders in the NBA as we head towards spring? How about March Madness just a few weeks away as well as we get set for one of the great tournaments in American sports. You can get everything you need and all the action you are looking for at Fandall, a proud sponsor of this and all of the podcasts here at Empire Media. Fandall, get in on everything. All right, Graz, so this team is going to be active and the question is where I think so it could be most active and maybe possible targets in your mind. I mean, I think it could be anywhere. I think they could look at wide receivers and running backs. I think they could look at linebackers and corners and obviously edge rusher. I just think the key thing for people to understand is this year's approach is going to look a lot different than last year's. Last year they're coming off the big first year with Quinn and Jayden Daniels and they're

5:12a game away from the Super Bowl. So let's plug a Debo Samuel and maybe we can, I don't get the sense coming out of Indy that they feel that way this year. They want to go a little younger, maybe some longer term deals with some guys they can build around. So I do think you look at where the market is deep, it's a good edge rush market this year. You try and pry Jaylen Phillips out of Philadelphia or someone like Daffa O.A. away from the chargers. You look at those linebackers like the Devon Lloyd Quay Walker types. I don't see them being a team given just sort of where they stand in terms of draft capital to be able to make a big splashy Max Crosby kind of deal. I guess you never rule anything out. But they do seem to have salary cap space and money so they can go after some of these free agents. But I think you're going to look for more younger, longer term solutions as opposed to the quick hit plug and play veteran types thereafter last year.

6:15And it's also important to remember new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme so they could be looking for different kinds of players than they've looked for the last couple of years. And that's the message I've gotten to. Let's go to some of those players. So like you talk about defensive and Jaylen Phillips and O.A. from the chargers. What kind of market do you think it'll have? What are we looking at in terms of like do you have an anticipated cost? And how big, how wide will they'll mark their market be working on that right now as we're recording this. I'm working on a piece for dot com about like what these guys might cost. You know, Kway Walker, you know, 14, 15, 16 million a year range. Jaylen Phillips is tough. Some people have him like close to 20 and some people are over 20 and some people say I might be just, I've got one year, prove it kind of deal for like the 14, 15 range. So that's going to be interesting to see where that comes in. Devon Lloyd, you know, probably in that sort of it would do well. I think to get to that like Zach Bond level from last year, which is about 17 million a year. So yeah, it really is the defense and free agent market this year.

7:20There is kind of like a, you know, what's your favorite flavor element to it? Like what, you know, what do you like, what are you looking for? What kind of player fits your scheme and then go out and get that. So it's hard to really, you know, get a sense of like who they'll target given how new everything is. But those are the kinds of names. I think I think they're, they're probably going to bring in, you know, one or two of these guys that's at the top of the market at their positions, just a question of how you allocate your resources. And then, you know, if you go heavy on defense and free agency, maybe you draft a wide receiver or vice versa. So I think they're, their plan could go a number of different ways and I wouldn't be surprised. How big that what a market be for Phillips, do you think? And or do you expect them, is there still a chance as we record this that he still ends up in Philly? I think they'd have him back at the right price, but they have a lot to do and they've drafted a lot of those positions in the defense of front seven in recent years. So he knows Vic Fangio and Vic Fangio knows him, they've done well together, but he could

8:24also price himself out of there. He's 26, which is great. He's got a pretty lengthy injury history, which is not great. And you know, to what extent do teams hold the injury history against him when they talk about long-term and guarantees? Is there a team out there that's willing to take a bigger risk, guarantee him more in future years, give him a longer contract, that might be the team that ends up talking him out of Philadelphia. If he stays in Philly, my guess is, is because the market he anticipated didn't materialize for him and he knows he can stay there and be in a good spot in a scheme that works for him. You see, Trey Hendrickson, obviously he's probably the top pass wrestler on the market. He's also 31 and so what kind of market will he have and what are some teams to watch there, do you think? So that gets the heart in terms of the commanders what we're talking about, right? He would have really well in the last off-season's plan. And I know they looked at it, right, when they thought he might be a guy that the Bengals might trade, which ultimately he was not. So yes, I mean, would it make sense, sure, but he is going to be costly and he is a guy

9:29at age 31 that the crux of the issue we had with Cincinnati was they wouldn't guarantee him money in future years. So do you want to do that for a 31-year-old? Do you have to do that in order to get him? I think it's a shorter term deal for an older veteran that's kind of like seen as an instant impact guy and that does sound like the 2025 commanders off-season, not to say they wouldn't make a move like that. But I think fundamentally they're looking at, you know, guys that they might be able to have for a longer period of time. Definitely agree with that. But like, as far as he goes, like, what teams would you say would be in on for hundreds and do you think? Look, it's the same teams you hear when they talk about Max Crosby trades, right? I mean, Chicago needs an edge rusher. New England needs an edge rusher. These are teams that were right there. New England in the Super Bowl, Chicago, a couple of games away. I think Dallas would be interested, depending on the price, they're not the kind of team that goes for the older free agent, but they do need help on the edges and if other things don't materialize for them, you know, could they get in on that?

10:30The chargers are probably going to lose two of their guys to free agency. They'll have a need, the Baltimore Ravens don't usually do free agency too much because they love their comp picks, but, you know, they need help there too and obviously they're trying to get that defense back to where it was. So he's an interest in case because he's kind of a quick fix kind of injection as opposed to like, hey, we're building this out for the long term. So I look at teams that are either contenders or consider themselves contenders who might be able to sort of plug him in to their scheme. I mean, look, the easy one is Indy andapolis because Luana Rumo loves him from Cincinnati and he know they're trying to make waves pretty quickly here. Speaking of Indy, Alc Pierce. So he's going to be anybody who wants to receive her. He gets free. Are you surprised that, again, as we recorded, he is saying that he thinks he wants to test the market and why wouldn't you if you're this close? How big would that market be for him and where do you think that number goes?

11:31I think he could land in the, you know, mid to high 20s a year. I think he could, you know, he could get like a $26, $27 million a year deal and who knows maybe more of their enough teams interested. Now, the franchise tag was $27.3 for receivers. He didn't get that because they had to put the transition tag on Daniel Jones. So he'll work off that $27 million number because, you know, the franchise tag is a guideline there. He led the league in yards per reception each of the last two years. It brings a downfield speed element that is rare. I think, you know, his competition on the market is probably what Rashid Shaheed, another speedy guy that obviously also helps in the return game. But I think Pierce will do better and get a bigger deal. And I think, you know, with him on the open market, I think you can have to pay up because, I mean, look at the price tag for receiver. Look at the bills just gave up to get DJ Moore from the Bears. I think this is going to be, I think when you have a difference, a potential difference

12:34maker in terms of being able to generate explosive plays down field, that is something that's going to do well in this market. And I know, like, I'm seeing you and Jeremy talked a lot of people. He had your column a couple of days ago, but is there a receiver? You say, okay, a little bit under radar that if you're not getting Pierce or, you know, she, I don't know if he's necessarily top, but his name is speed is there. But is there an under the radar receiver or somebody that you think like this guy might have a bigger market than people anticipate? Romeo dobs of the Packers. I think he's a guy that, you know, he's been out there the last couple of years as a potential trade target. I know the Packers dabbled in that last summer, but didn't ultimately move him. Now he'll be a free agent. Obviously crowded wide receiver room there in Green Bay. Been pretty productive when he's been on the field with Jordan Love and the Packers. I think he's kind of a, he's kind of like I do everything sort of wide receiver that that a lot of teams are looking for. I think he'd fit a lot of different places. And I, I think he's going to have a lot of offers. I think Jill and Nailer was another guy you guys had in the column too. Like is he a guy that people are kind of looking at it all as an under the radar guy?

13:38Yeah, I mean, look, again, this is, this is much like I said about the defensive guys. Like, what are you looking for? What kind of player are you looking for? So if there's a couple of teams out there that see Jalen Nailer as, you know, a player on the Ascent, then yes, absolutely. So, you know, if AJ Brown's not getting traded, you know, what maybe is 5050. Let's call it here on March 5th as we're talking. If AJ Brown's not getting traded, DJ Moore already did. Mike Evans is 33. Like what do you, like there's no like, you know, like the wide wrist, like the, like, Alec Pierce is probably the guy that's going to do the best on the free agent wide receiver market. And he hasn't been a high volume pass catch. Like he's not a number one wide receiver, right? So I think it's going to be very scheme dependent. And if there are teams out there that feel like Romeo dobs or a job. The reason I said dobs is it feels like he's kind of a guy that can fit a lot of different types of schemes. Absolutely. And then, you know, in the column again, you guys had Chris Paul as a player, maybe to watch.

14:43He, of course, as a commanders for Asian guard. What do you think the market will be for him? So that was, I think that was a Jeremy note. But, but that doesn't mean it's not, I just mean like he might have. Right, right, right. The guard, everybody needs interior off it. I taught every team I talked to the comment, interior offence of life. Chargers need three starters. The Ravens are going to need three starters. If Tyler Lindrowbaum gets loose, which I believe that he will. I think that I mean, like there are buffalo could lose two interior offensive linemen that were starters for them last year. You know, these are teams that can't afford to lose offensive linemen. They have high, high hopes. So if Chris Paul, like, so I feel like I keep giving the same answer. Like, what do you, what are you looking for in a guard? Like I was talking to the chargers and, you know, Zion Johnson's a free agent. Will they bring him back? Maybe, but also like they have a brand new scheme. Mike McDaniel is going to be their offensive coordinator. They're looking for a different type of guard than maybe they had when Greg Roman

15:44was the offensive coordinator. So I don't personally, John, know enough about like how to break down guard play on tape to be able to tell you like, oh, so into Chris Paul fits here, but not here. But I think that's the key, right? Like if he's, if they're changing things in Washington and maybe he doesn't do what they need him to do, maybe they're better off letting him go and finding a replacement on a market that I think is going to have a lot of supply and a lot of demand. Like, yeah. So I think it's a, it's a, you know, it's a matter of what you're looking for at guard. But there are a lot of them out there. There's veterans. There's young guys and there are, I think it's a good year to be a free agent center or guard because I think you're going to be able to find a lot of teams interested. So if Jay Reed were here, he would, I, he would say and he'd know he heard this too. Mike Shanahan would tell us, you don't win with F and guards and so, but you don't have him. Like you're going to get commercial for a penalty because you got to have five up there.

16:45So like, you need to put two fat guys in there around the center and, but it's just what kind of fat guy are you looking for? And I think that's going to be 21 new offensive coordinators, John, like, like, that's, that's massive. Like they're, they're all kinds of scheme changes going on around the lake. We could see a lot of turnover at those positions. Who do you think is the team to watch during this period? Chicago, I think it'll be very aggressive. You can see them already making moves to clear cap space. Obviously, DJ Moore was expendable given all the young receivers they've drafted in recent years. The tight end calls in Lovland. So they clear cap space with that, you know, they, I don't know what's going to happen with Tremaine Edmonds. They can trade him, cut him, et cetera. I think that'll be a team to watch because I think they're, you know, you saw last year when they went into free agency and, and hit it hard with the guards in the center and now they lost their center, which was a surprise. So that adds a need for them. So I think you'll see them trying beef up at edge Russia and I think you'll see them

17:45trying, you know, replace Drew Dolman with a high end option. Maybe they're in the Tyler Linderbaum, you know, sweepstakes now. But yeah, I think they're a team to watch. I think Washington's a team to watch. I think they have a lot of needs and the ability to fill them and, and I think they're going to be in on some of these high profile dudes. I think the chargers, when you talk about renew offensive line starters and possibly having to replace one or two edge rushers, I think they're a team with a ton of cap space that is trying to perennially contend in the toughest division where the chiefs wanted a million years in row. And the Broncos wanted this year. So I think those are three that kind of jumped to mind. Seattle's a team to watch. I think they're going to lose a lot of guys, but, you know, they're always kind of one step ahead of the rest of us. So I think they have a plan, they'll keep who they want to keep and they'll have, you know, they showed us last year, they have the ability to find replacements when things go sideways. And you brought like this team has one running back on a contract. So how is the running back class viewed?

18:45How is it? How is this class viewed? So with Breeze Hall getting the franchise tag from the Jets at 14.3 million, you know, if you're Kenneth Walker, you're Travis ETN, that's your, that's your number that you're kind of trying to work around. Maybe you're trying to top it. Maybe you're trying to get as close as possible. Those are probably the two guys hitting the market Walker and ETN that I think will do the best. Walker might be able to top that Breeze Hall number if enough teams are interested, ETN I think probably comes in a little bit under it. After that, you're looking at like a group that's like Rico Dowdell, Tyler Algear, Kenneth Gainwell, guys that have been, have shown the ability to, to be the main guy in an offense at times, but not, you know, consistently year over year, but maybe a team thinks they can be. And that's probably like, if they do really well, like nine, 10 million a year, probably more around the, the eight million dollar a year range, and you'll have guys that, um, get cut. Aaron Jones already cut in Minnesota and older veteran that's, everybody loves having

19:48in the locker room and has been a productive player when he's been healthy, but he's getting older as trouble staying healthy, you know, I think James Conner could get loose from, from Arizona, obviously coming off a major injury and an extensive injury history there, but a guy that went healthy has been able to be a, a bell cow type. So, um, yeah, it, it's an interesting running back market. I think the Breeze Hall franchise tag is an indication that at least at the top, and it might be a pretty good year for free agent running backs. What's, is there a position use that people think is the top to what the, the, the most depth in, in free agency? Aaron Jones I heard a lot about, uh, edge rusher. I like it's a good free agent edge rusher class, as well as a good draft class at that position. So, that's cool because that's, that's something everybody always needs. Uh, so it's interesting to see how that all lands where everybody ends up. If you're, if you're working on a Max Crosby trade and you think you have a shot at that, I think you're going to want that cleared up before you start, you know, moving on to plan B and C. Uh, but yeah, I think some of these guys, you know, that are coming off

20:52big productive years. Um, Hendrickson not so much because he was hurt, but, but the two years before very productive um, uh, oh, oh, Daffy, oh, he that went to the chargers in the trade, how to monster year for, for Los Angeles after they acquired it from Baltimore, um, could be a guy that, that appeals, uh, to some teams, uh, you know, we talked about Jalen Phillips, I'm just rattling it off. I say, you know, yeah, yeah, you know, Seattle's got four or five guys that they'd like to keep all, but probably can only afford to keep two. So, you know, does, does boy Mafe, uh, pop loose and then what do they do at the edge rusher position there in Seattle to replace him? So, yeah, I think that's, that's, it's a fun year to need, uh, help on the edge. Do you think Minnesota will be at the trade grenade or they can have to release him? Top of my head, I don't remember the contract, um, my, my guess is released because, you know, like, when that happens, when like, oh, get, get permission to seek a trade, it's like, yeah, but we're probably going to cut you.

21:55Uh, so I don't, at the top of my head, I don't have his number, but my sense of it is, it's a pretty good contract. I will say, I think it's like, well, I want to say the next two years are like 22 million each year for the cap hit, um, yeah, so would, so I'd have to check and see. Oh, maybe, yeah, yeah, it might be appealing to somebody. I mean, look, they, yeah, they're, they're in bad cap situation there and they don't really have a, their quarterback situation figured out. So I think you're going to see some, some tough cuts in Minnesota. They might not want to be without Jonathan Grenard, but they might not have a choice. What, what, what going back to Crosby? What would it, what do you think is going to take to get him? And I don't think this seems so. Oh, yeah, what they're floating out there is they want to get what the Cowboys got from Michael Parsons, which is two first round picks in a starting defensive tackle. Oh, yeah, good luck there, especially for a guy that, um, that, um, yeah, I guess the Cowboys did pretty well, considering when he was traded. But, you know, Parsons younger and, and, and, you know, not coming off an injury as, um,

22:56as Crosby is. So I don't, if I'm the Raiders, I'm not moving them without getting at least one first round pick. I mean, this is a guy who's under contract for the next two years for 59 million total. That's pretty good. If he's healthy and as productive as he's been in Las Vegas, you know, you're not getting that kind of edge rush production for 29 and a half million a year. So I would, you know, if I were the Bears or the Patriots or somebody that they were, they were that guy away, I'd be, I'd be considering it. But my guess would be you'd have to have a first round pick involved or, or another player that, um, you know, that they could help them on a deal they could afford. Last one, how do you think, and I don't know if you, how much you've talked to other people just about this team, but how do you think they're viewed around the league, where they're at, whether it's with Jayden, with Dan Quinn, et cetera? I think what you hear about the commanders is, you know, can they keep the quarterback healthy? And, and that's the biggest question around the league. And frankly, I mean, it's, it's a question, you know, they, they know they have to answer internally. Um, so the line I think will be important.

23:57I think you talk about running back, they're going to have to find running backs who can participate as pass protectors. That, that's going to be a priority. Um, and then, you know, obviously, as Jayden plays more and, and, and, and matures and gets old, not that he's immature, but everybody, as you get older, uh, you know, learns more about how to protect himself and, and make those kinds of decisions. But, um, you know, they can't afford to be to losing whole seasons to this, right? They, they've got to be able to keep him on the field. And I think that's the, everybody loves the kids talent. There's no question about it. What he did two years ago was real. It was not fluky. Uh, if he's healthy, I think we expect him to be that guy again. But they have to make sure he's healthy. And, and I think if that happens, you know, they obviously, everybody knows they had to build out the defense. It was not good enough last year. And he'd tell it at all three levels right now. Um, but you can do that. And if you make sure the line is right and the protection is good, I think, you know, you know, you probably have something special in that quarterback. Gras, appreciate it as always. Thanks, man. And anytime. Happy to do it. Thanks, John. That's it for this episode. Thanks to Dan for joining me

25:01and thank you as always for tuning in. I'll be back on, man, Friday night Saturday morning, one of these times probably Saturday, um, with another episode. So I'm going to talk to you next time. By the way, get ready for Monday. Just a day. I'll start. Talk to you next time.