Episode 342

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences

Listener discretion is advised

Shit happened it shouldn't happen and anyway, um, I just wanted to be known that I didn't kill John

Welcome to season 13 episode 342 of Sword and Scale

Show that reveals that the worst monsters are real

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In the early hours of May 18th, 2017, in Parma Heights, Ohio

A working class suburb 20 miles south of Cleveland

Which sounds like a lovely place I might add

Like the rest of the state

Pearl Road cuts through the town and a long stretch of strip plazas and small storefronts

Haresalons, nail studios, pizza shops

You know the kind of useless strip ball that inhabits pretty much every city in America

While those shops are usually owned by locals in these businesses

Open early close late and know their regulars by name

The strip is dark and small shops are locked up for the night

The early morning is calm except for one thing

A burglar is ready to do his thing

He grabs a landscaping stone, hauls it up and hurls it at the front door of classic hair studio

The glass explodes, the stone breaking apart in the chucks across the floor

He doesn't hesitate, he ducks inside head straight for the counter

And he yanks the entire cash register loose

The drawer jerks free

Cords snapping

And he's out in seconds

Inside the cash register, he finds almost $300 in cash

And the machine itself is probably worth a couple hundred more

Where's your emergency?

Hi, it's in Parma Heights, I'm not going to say it's an emergency

But I was driving to work and I noticed that the door on a beauty shop is totally smashed

On pro road

The address is 6412

It's called classic studio

And their front doors is totally smashed

I mean anybody can go inside at this point

Okay

And I noticed it and I turned around and went back thinking

Did I really see that and sure enough I did so

Okay, we thought I'd report it

A few doors down, he does it again

Another front door smashed this time at the nail studio

Instead of taking the whole register, he opens the drawer

This one has $50 inside

But it doesn't matter

Any amount of money is worth it

He's desperate

The glass crunches under his boots as he walks away

Leaving two shops and ruins behind him

And I'm the store manager here at Discount Truck Mark

Right next to us, there is a, it's $64.88

Your code

There's the spot in the old place right next to the drug mark here

You know, I'm in charge of

There's the glass is broken out on the front door here

At the nail and spa place

Right, I believe we just cleared there

Oh, okay, I'm sorry

I just, I didn't know if anyone was out or anything

$64.12, I believe the address is

Um, must have $64.88 on the door here

Okay, then that's a different one

Oh, okay

It's called spa in nails

By sunrise, both storefronts are cordoned off with yellow tape

Patrol officers sweep glass into piles while the owners pull up the surveillance video

A white male

Short with a bald spot and tattoos on his arms

The time stamp on the camera is wrong but they already know the crimes happened overnight

The owners are terrified and one vows to shut down the business

She wonders how this could happen in such a family friendly town

Parma Heights has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation

At least that's what the statistics say

Whoever the perpetrator is he probably should have worn a mask

His face is front and center on the surveillance camera

Not only that the outside cameras catch him speeding off in a white Jeep

It doesn't take long to bring in Thomas Nuff

For questioning

Okay, all right, get me to deal with Parma Heights is here to speak with you

No

Well, I had a couple breakings in my city at a spa nails and then another

Classic hair studios, you know anything about them

No

Nothing at all. All right. Why I got surveillance video of the vehicle and the person breaking into their business

Okay, so let me pull this stuff up here recognize that person

Looks like it could be me

All right, so let's do this

Recognize them tattoos

Ha

Yeah, do you remember doing this or no

Tom seem like your average guy next door

He just didn't have that typical criminal look about him

If they're even is such a thing

He looked more like a dad sitting on the bleachers of his son's football game

And Thomas didn't have a son

A good kid who unfortunately had to be raised by Tom's sister during the last 15 years

He was in prison for aggravated robbery

So looks can be deceiving

That's what they say anyway

You're running if you take the cash register from the one place is the cash from the second place, okay?

Um, and then you're in a white Jeep that looks like a blowing to your your son, but registered to your sister maybe okay this

Okay, but I'm more more recent photo of the

Of you this

What the hell happened to it

Yeah

Smash the window. Did you do that or

Yeah, okay, what happened. I mean

Just went off road

It was the truth branch. Did you mean to go off road? It was a kind of yeah, okay try to hurt yourself or what no just

Just uh

Went off with

Off road in a spot where we used to go off road. Okay, so we're just gonna go out there and like my heart what?

No, no

I mean, I appreciate you being honest

Tom tried to be a good dad

Well, maybe not

But he really did love his son

And old habits die hard

That included going on benders robbing businesses and off roading

This time it just happened to be that he had no vehicle. So

He took his son's Jeep

And damaged it how messed up for you during this time

I don't know sir. Okay, all right

By what there's you know what unfortunately you don't do to this and the video and stuff like I have you and then uh

How it got to you is we actually uh

The news kind of hold it because I put some on our Facebook page

And then your sister did actually want to call and said hey listen

That's my brother in my car you know me so kind of let us see you

But I had some previous things to let you look like you had a history of bronzewick

Bronzewick immediately called me says hey listen. I know that guy

You might you might want to give me call everything he did is what he used to do and uh thanks to deal with you a lot, huh?

So um what happened with you were you were in jail for a little bit you get out and what happened?

I just I don't know man. I just

Got out of them

Things weren't like it. I thought it was gonna be you know. I had nowhere to go. Okay. No family was helping here or what?

My mom passed you know like a lot had changed in the 15 years. He was on the inside

Y'all seen Shasha, right?

Think about how smartphones didn't even exist in 2002

Everybody was still using a flip phone

There was no social media at least not like today

Facebook launched in 2004 YouTube in 2005 and Twitter in 2006

Instagram came around in 2010 and uh, I won't even mention TikTok

In 2002 when he went into prison

People were still using aol instant messenger and my space wasn't even a thing yet

If you wanted to go somewhere you couldn't just tap on your phone and have directions show up or even read out to you

You had to

Print something out from a site called mapquest. I shit you not on your ink jet printer and hope that the directions

We're accurate

Kids nowadays can't even figure out what gender they are. Could you imagine if you took GPS away from them

If Tom repeated as little heist today, he'd be lucky to find one dollar in the cash register

People don't even use cash anymore

Just their clarina debit cards which they have no intention of ever paying back

Another big difference since 2002 is that we weren't all spying on each other

No one was lurking nearby to film you on their phone

Waiting to post it somewhere for the world to see

Security cameras existed, but we're reserved for big businesses

No wonder Tom didn't wear a mask

Not only was he too shit-faced to even think about a security camera

But he just wasn't expecting these tiny businesses to own one

In 2002 voicemail was still a thing and people actually checked it

Tom felt like he'd been swallowed up by time, but it wasn't just the tech that had left him behind

While he was on the inside his world fell apart

His mom died. She was the family anchor

There were some rough years between him and a stepdad, but

His mom was always there for the kids

Probably almost too much

My mom struggled for the last

That three or four years before she passed

Trying to keep the house afloat and still help my sister with bills and with her kids

And as soon as my mom dies

You know, I told my sister we'll here take my money

And

Paid a bank note off on look bar one money guessing keep the house

Over the corner husband they allowed it to go into such disrepair that she didn't want to talk with it

And so she let the bank have it and uh

Yeah, I told her I said you know, I feel like you you know, sit on their graves

You know, I mean you should have let him you should have let the bank have it four years ago

And instead of looking them out and roll the stress she then trying to

She was the only one that ever had a solid career and I'm working a steady work

You know, I mean with good money, so you know, she's paying like everybody's cell phone bill everybody's bill

Baby said a certain 80's since you and you since you got a good relationship or no

His sister took over the money and according to Tom, she

mismanaged it

She also failed to get the car Tom had wrecked from the impound because it was too much trouble

Tom was pissed because the car belonged to his son Tommy and still had some of his personal belongings in it

According to Tom his sister helped raise Tommy and had been a good influence, but

Ever since their mother passed she was all about herself

His sister of course had a different story

There was a time when they partied together as teens and acted more like friends than siblings, but

Then Tom got a girl pregnant when he was 19

And things changed

This sister had lost a baby boy and now she found herself stepping in to parent Tom's son

Tom continued to party and went to rehab at least once

It was like usually every time he went to rehab this stuff would come out missy gets everything

Well missy has a job missy went to school. I paid for it

He always I guess felt like

I got everything but in reality

My grandparents were draining their bank account for him

And our whole life revolved around

And then what was going on

But he always and he still will

And recently when my mom died he wrote Tommy letters the same old stuff like missy got this and

His sister missy remembered that their mother practically enabled him

I chose always our farm. No

And even if he stole from her could still come home

I don't remember backward. I think I told you when I found out when she died that she had all these

Check cashing was and stuff and I found all the

receipts

Commissary and adventure and to people like Latasha, McLeishan

And so my brothers grow out you know and agron and youngstown and you know wherever

And it was always well he needs

Hygiene products. It's like he doesn't need three hundred dollars

We've all experienced someone in the family like this, right

It always seems like the one who gets in trouble the most or as the least productive gets all the attention

Doesn't it? Yeah, fuck the productive one who pays his bills and

Minds his own business

Let's focus all of our baby bird attention on this idiot over here that can't get their shit together

Tom was about 25 when he went to prison and now he was 42

With no home to go back to no mommy to run to and a son who was almost an adult now

Ready to live his own life

He had a lot to figure out and even more to make up for

And yet

Here he was back at the police station

Since he got out he'd been looking for a place to stay, but his parole had restrictions

No guns no drugs on and on

His anxiety was increasing in the previous night's drunken binge was going to land him in jail

again

Things we're about to get worse. I don't see your son wanted to be bashful against you at all

You know, I mean, I think you just want to stay it around

You know, I mean, unfortunately like I said, I mean this mom was letting me stay there

And until I got a place and that didn't work out for a girl

and

Then she kind of wanted to start a relationship again and then when I didn't because I had a girlfriend

She kind of flipped on me. Okay, and then like I said my sister, you know, she and her just we said girlfriend a girl

We were looking for that was missing

Oh, I don't know. You don't remember anywhere. Do you know where she's at by any chance?

Just a old friend of mine. Okay, I've still never heard any contact if anything works you could be

I don't know she was like when I was writing her from jail. Okay

We lost contact was she stayed in touch with my mom. Okay, so when my mom died

She kind of come back in a picture than her mom died

Then she took off the taxi and came back and her and her friend actually picked me up from jail. Okay

But who was it who was her friend that came with you a whole small guy John John man

Yeah, in that clip they were talking about the mother of Tom's son

When he got out of prison. He was hoping to stay at her house, but

That didn't work out because she wanted to rekindle the relationship

And he had long since moved on with two different women

49-year-old Regina Capo Bianco was one of them

About 15 years earlier she had signed up for a prison penpal program

Where she met Tom

Yeah, she was one of those weirdos

They constantly rode each other and promised they would meet up once he was out

The problem for Tom at least was that he was looking for stability

And before he even got out he started to see that

She had issues. I wonder how he found out

Could it have been maybe the fact she was writing inmates

Maybe that was it their Tom

Maybe that was the whole problem

Anyway, Regina had been living at home with her mother

But at some point in their friendship her mother also tied leaving her without a home

Her life took a downward turn into alcoholism

This was the last thing Tom needed and besides

He had already started seeing someone else

These inmates can really pull some pus if you know what I mean

When Tom was released Regina was living with a partner

An older man named John Mann

This was a quid pro quo situation if you know what that means

A friends with benefits sort of relationship

Where she would help take care of him in his house and exchange for you know a place to stay

She was a house whore basically

Regina and John had generously offered to let Tom stay there too

Until he got on his feet

But Tom could already see the writing on the wall and

New this would be the worst environment possible for him

It was true that he accepted Regina and John's offer to pick him up from prison upon his release

But he told him he planned to find his own lodging

The last he'd heard of Regina

She was about to celebrate her 50th birthday

I'm one one what's the address of the emergency

So we have a neighbor across the street and they just got home

And there's a lady that's like on the ground and can't get up and they're like hovering over her

So in the front yard in the front yard. Yeah. She's an older lady in her 50s with dark go brown hair

Wait, you know, they're picking her up and carrying her into the room into her white female

Wife female

She can barely stand up so they're walking her and carrying her

Now it's one thing to get a little carried away or your 50th birthday

But when was the last time your neighbors called 911 on you

Because you were passed out in your yard

And I hope you weren't in your 50s

Tom remembered warning Regina to get up that day

But when she wasn't able to he and John literally had to drag her into the house

All right, if you get birthday she got trashed and was puking up her fake teeth and I'm like come on Regina

I'm like

And all lady and saw that and I told her to I'm like, please get up

You know, you're laying in your puke. I'm like it's a nice area. So I was gonna call the police

No sooner than I said the coming couple are there pops and yeah, so

And it looked crazy like you got a older guy and you got this guy

That's who's dragging this girl in the house. I mean, especially with after all that shit that happened in Cleveland

With them girls being born for all that years. You don't know

She's always been like that. She's a good heart good girl. Mm-hmm through writing like for as much as we wrote in prison

Regina may have had a good heart, but she was a wild card

Though he did stay at Regina and John's a couple of times since he got out

He mostly bounced around hotels with his current girlfriend

He was right to steer clear of Regina as much as possible

The last thing he needed was to get roped into another bad situation

But Tom the guy just trying to keep his head down and reconnect with his son

Was about to be pulled into something

A lot bigger than a stolen cash register and erect jeep

Something that would change his life

Forever

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All right, let's continue

It was late June 2017 in Parma Heights, Ohio

A Cleveland suburb with a reputation for safety

Not violent crime

In the last few weeks, police responded to a string of late-night burglaries

The suspect Thomas Nuff was quickly caught

He admitted to everything saying he was broke and desperate

Hotels were getting expensive

Thomas just been released from prison after serving 15 years

Since then he bounced between hotels, old girlfriends and temporary stays with people willing to help

Including a penpal named Regina Capobianco

She and her boyfriend even gave him a ride from prison

He stayed at her place a couple of nights, but mostly kept his distance

She had a good heart, but she was a little

Unpredictable

Then Regina stopped answering her phone

Her sister worried

I miss her every day

I miss sending her pictures of the girls of my grandkids and calling her

That was all taken from me and for if we can't do that anymore

I call Regina Reggie

Reggie had a contagious laugh

If you would ask anybody what they remember about Reggie, it will be her laugh

The police had been to her house already, but they didn't execute a full search

Neighbors had seen stickers on the door about a potential foreclosure and just assumed John was evicted

Now weeks had passed, they go back

And what they find inside is worse than anything anyone's imagined

What they walk into is a hoarder's nightmare

Trashbags boxes rotting food

The air is thick and sour

The kind of stench you think is garbage until you realize

It's not

Specialized agents are called in along with cadaver dogs

But even the dogs refuse to go inside

But the odor of decomposition is

Overwhelming

They stubbornly sit outside like

No way man, I ain't going in there

We ain't touching this

That's kind of what I imagine dogs sound like

You can get another head

Yo bro, we ain't going in there

That's all I'm saying dog

The search stops here

I think it's kind of cute

Imagine a doberman talking like that

Anyway

Fortunately agents

Come prepared with full protective masks and oxygen tanks

This is a full hazmat situation we got going on

They enter through the back door of the ranch home past the shattered window

Dead flies carpet the floor

The second bedroom is by far the worst

Fly swarm in the air

The stench pools in the room

maggots wriggle in a disgusting puddle at the foot of the bed

A puddle they trace to a mound of trash and blankets

When they start to move it

They see skin

Then bone

Then

What looks like a leg

Then a skull

The hallway carpet has been cut away and blood stains

Stretch from the kitchen into the living room

Where the carpet has also been removed

Under trash and clothing in the second bedroom

They find John Mann's body

A mire of decomposed rotting flesh

Unrecognizable

And behind him

Up against the wall they find a second figure wrapped in a wet Harley Davidson blanket

The blanket is form fitting

They can see the outline of Regina's head before it's even pulled back

She's face up

Sweater rolled up above her eyes

One foot exposed and the rest of her body hidden beneath layers of filth

A purple condom wrapper is found near her head

At first Tom wasn't the obvious suspect

Even though he had a criminal background

His crimes didn't involve violence against anyone

And he had a son he desperately wanted to reconnect with

Why would he risk throwing that all away

He already messed up by getting stupid drunken breaking into the salons

Stupid and sloppy but

Not murder

But because he was one of the only people who had a connection with both Regina and John

They started to dig

Where else had Tom been staying since he got out

Who else was helping him

And that's what his current girlfriend came up

Alicia Stoner

She wasn't just his girlfriend

She was a social worker at the prison

Imagine that

Information today most of it

Alicia was working at the same prison that Tom was serving time in

Tom was attractive to her for some reason

Probably for the same reason why some women

Write to inmates

Some particular crazy bitches take that extra step and get a job at the prison

It's one hell of a world we're living it

I'll tell you

Maybe it was the bad boy prisoner thing maybe it was his

Charming gift of gab who knows who cares

Whatever the case he was writing to multiple women including Regina and they were all

Falling for it

With Alicia

He had the added pleasure of interacting personally

That is until she quit due to an obvious conflict of interest

She chose Tom over her job

And they continued the relationship

Imagine choosing a criminal over your job

These two lovebirds wrote poems to each other

Long handwritten love letters

They were soul mates

When adictives interview to Alicia for the first time

She didn't want to say much

But after she realized that she could be implicated

And ultimately serve time

That's when she started to talk

I just want to clarify some things that I wasn't direct with

Okay, okay

But maybe this dream of minimizing some of this so that it's

Oh I did

It was her issue

I avoided I minimized I rationalized

I did all the defense mechanism I know

It just comes down to telling us the truth

On paper Alicia didn't look like the kind of woman who'd ever

Be connected to a double homicide

She was a mental health worker

And she was married

But somehow she was charmed by this asshole

After his release in April 2017

Alicia became more than just his girlfriend

She was his driver

His banker and his safety net

When parole rules barged Tom from living with her

She paid for his motel rooms

When he needed money she wired it

And when he called her in the middle of the night

She came

On May 12th 2017 Alicia drove to pick him up

After he made a desperate phone call

She remembered his left index finger was badly cut

A fresh wound he couldn't easily explain

When we discuss about initially me getting the phone call from Thomas

And he called me and he did say to me

Just by every meet you with health

And I know he gave me

This is where I'm going to tell you just

Okay, I know he gave me directions

At some point

And here's what I see when I'm driving

And I'm crossing over me under

I'm on the phone with him

And he tells me Regina and John are dead

Okay, that helps far some

memory of the conversation

Then help him telling you when you got there

Was there anything more than

There's more

Okay

So it's accurate with him with the hood coming out

And he gets in my car where I tell you

And we park where I tell you

And

Just let me say this

The story I was supposed to tell

Was that he got into a bar fight for the finger

Because he says to me all you all you know is that I got into a bar fight for the finger

Okay, so that's what I want to do

Tom's version started with his relationship with John

He felt sorry for John because Regina was taking advantage of him

What started as a partnership had turned into a one-way street that ended with Regina being the only happy partner

She came and went as she pleased

She took John's money and dead little in exchange

She even started seeing other guys and bringing them back to the house

So

When I met John, you know

He might've been dirtbagging a lot of things but

I just took him as an old hippie nice guy

He was gonna get kicked out of the house soon

But he needed some of the motorgrass and

First of all, you know, I want everybody to know that you know

I've never had any such relationships with Regina

We met in

2005 as pen pals and for about a year and a half we kind of were writing a lot and had

Ideas of getting out me and together

Of course, then I felt a lot different than I do now about what I wanted in life and a woman and

She's always been super wild told me a lot of crazy stories. I never

Realized of course. She's probably progressed and got worse. You know what I mean?

So I never realized you know

Like until her 50th birthday

How she was drinking if he wasn't convinced at her 50th birthday party that she was an out of control

Party or

An incident that happened at a gas station

Confirmed it

She'd been drinking

He says she came out of the restroom with toilet paper hanging out of her pants

When he politely brought it to her attention. She says watch this

And she pulls it out and plasters it on the chest of a little old lady who's walking to pie

gross

So

We didn't talk for a while, you know a few weeks and I ended up on

When I needed a place to stay and I knew that you know, they were still entertaining that idea when I was in jail

So I called her up and she said well, you know, she was mad at me, but I said hey, you know, what are you mad for?

You know, I mean the way you were at then and I can't have that

Well, so I've met John a few times and he had confided in me

That he kind of wanted her out

But she told them like why get mailed here. So you got to pick me

And then he was kind of like well, I've known her for a while. I kind of love her

But at the same time he's like, you know, she don't suck my dip no more. She don't do this

And for her, you know, she I'd seen her drunk like, you know, you can't get it hard right real nasty

You know, it means I'm like I feel bad for him, you know

He felt bad for John. So he started coaching him on how he could get rid of Regina by a victinger

It would be a bonus that he'd get to live there with John

In effect, he planned a replace Regina

Tom said he didn't have much, but he would help him in any way he could

Just not sexually

John wasn't getting that anyway

I ended up, you know, taking some of my stuff there because

You know, she didn't know at the time, but John was gonna try to so after the 15th birthday, he took some stuff there

Mm-hmm. Okay. Sorry

So I took my blue bed and they had my clothes in it. Okay, and I had it like a duffel bag

They had like my little homemade tattoo sheet and it moved brown tan back

And you know, I wasn't like move trying to like

Move in or nothing yet. So I didn't know what the status was gonna be as far as John getting her out of the house

I kind of was like I'm not gonna

Light you I said, you know, I can get you good bud

I'll keep you smoking. I'll give you 50 bucks a week, but I can't live here with her

And another reason why I really blame myself is just for entertaining the idea and telling him that about the stuff about being elderly and being able to

Victor that that's why I guess why she bugged the fuck out, you know what I mean? And

You know, I hear them outside yelling and arguing and the dogs are barking and the little you know, they're loud

And I'm like I could hear it outside

So the day this all went down John had confronted Regina

She laughed it off and said she was gonna go out and meet a guy at a bar

And they might come back to the house

While she was out John had fallen asleep. So she texted Tom asking him to put the dogs away because

She was bringing this guy back

Tom didn't want to be around for that. So he says he left

Well, I just chose to leave, you know, I took a walk in the neighborhood

We decided to want to be there listening to him as sets whatever was going on

well

I had come home and whoever the guy she had there was gone in her job and we're partying

and she's

drunk

I mean probably didn't take her much to get drunk anyway. She's such a little person, you know, I mean

And they're fighting and I'm outside in the backyard dogs are going crazy. I'm surprised nobody called it police, you know

And something just changed in the tone

And I come in, you know, I mean, I died. I didn't come in. I really thought I didn't want to interrupt

No, I didn't know what was said and I came in and Regina was attacking him with a knife

And I stopped her um, I actually got pictures

It took me it believe me as little she is she was pretty strong, you know, I mean hand

I had a little mark here where I had a little comic night out bunch of cuts on my hands trying to pull the blade from

And that's actually how I ended up cutting my finger so bad

This is when the lies started

Every person he saw got a different explanation for why he got this cut on his finger

From his own son to his ex at the house with his son

To his girlfriend Alicia

And finally to the police who interviewed him the night of the burglaries

By that point his finger was barely hanging on after he tried to superglue it

Gross

But he knew it was bad because it was turning green and starting to smell funny

You know what I mean? I know

Shit happened. It shouldn't happen and anyway um

I just want to be known that I didn't kill John

The one part of the story that always stayed consistent was that he didn't kill John

He freely admitted he killed Regina

Just like he freely admitted several weeks later that he robbed the salons

But he was adamant

He didn't kill John

And none of this shit was planned or premeditated or anything, but

I ended up ripping the knife from Regina and I threw a pint of chair and she took off and I went night check John

And he was still making sounds and on the floor

And

She ends up coming back with another knife and I don't know the regular steak knife

Whatever from the kitchen and that's when she ended up, you know, stabbing at me and cut my finger real bad

Again, I'm tussling with her and uh

I get it to the ground and I'm trying to hold her down and you know, or other and she's clawing at my face and my eyes

And I've had no given knife and using time, you know what I mean and I don't

I'm having nightmares about it. You know, I mean so much the fucking live with you know and

I wish I would have ran out of the house, you know, I mean because I got livid if she was a friend, you know, I mean and

I mean, I'd be stupid to even tell my pro officer I'm about to stay here at this house

Tom maintained he never met for any of this to happen

He just wanted to get out of prison and start over be a good dad

continue his relationship with Alicia

Except she was still married

And get back to what he loved to do

tattoos of course

But he also loved drinking and talking

Those two traits somehow led to him committing crimes and

Then involved the very people he loved most in the aftermath of those crimes

Even his young son

Tom's son thought he was helping his father

But every time

Tom took more

The next morning, Tommy's phone is jeep

And even his trust

were gone

When he did move there, he cut his finger open

And he said it was from the hedgehog with my mom and my ampoule said it was too clean of a cut to be not a hedgehog

But like hedge clippers and my mom and my ampoule said it was too clean of a cut

They think it was from a knife or glass or something. What do you think?

I'd like to believe him, but I don't know. I haven't seen a cut like that before. It was cut pretty bad

Yeah, it was like hanging off and stuff

Yeah, he said he was going to try to glue it back together

But when he was in the hospital, they just took it off for him

Tommy Jr would later learn the truth

If he didn't already suspect it

The story was shady

So was his story about why he needed Tommy to buy him duct tape and garbage bags for the finger

Poor Tommy

Since his dad got out of prison, he was

Invading all aspects of his life

And Tommy let him because he loved him

Yeah, since he's been out my it's my life's been so stressful

Like I've been afraid at my house

Why do I need you afraid?

I don't know if like he got dropped off by someone and he owes them money

And they're gonna like come inside or something. I don't know

Okay, I just don't know like I thought I knew him a little bit, but I guess I didn't

Okay

Tommy had a right to be afraid

His dad was a criminal

murderer

The only thing the police didn't know

Was exactly why he murdered

We think you know more time

Someone's telling us that in that conversation things were brought up about what your dad did that were pretty serious

And if he told you what he did then we need to know time

He did tell me he heard two people

Didn't say he would kill anybody he said he heard him now tell us what he told you

He said that he heard him and

He said he cut his finger on the hedge clippers and that he was trying to find him back

and

I was dead he told me that

He took Regina

They got her a hotel and then two black people came and we're beating them up and that he was trying to defend themselves

Say that again when was this didn't give you any time frame on one this happened you said it happened late at night

Late at night, they're sitting he was in the he said he was in the basement cleaning

And uh, he heard John yelling and he went upstairs and he started like

Trying to fight him with him and then they left and that's what a black males. He said to black man

He didn't he didn't use those words to use the bit like

The racist chance for them. Okay, and then he was fighting with these black males

You said that's how he had a scratch on his head. He said that's how he got a scratch on his head was from them

This was just one more version of Tom's lies

And when he couldn't cover his tracks with his lies, he simply told Tommy not to look

Like the time he asked Tommy to pick him up at John man's house

This time it was to get rid of the dogs inside

Went back to the house. He went and grabbed the dogs. I didn't see the dogs

He told me not to look and we drove out there

He had me pull around the side of the street and he shoest them out

Yeah, he just told me they were John's dogs and that he didn't want him anymore

That John was gonna hurt. I really

Kill him and get rid of him

So he was gonna give him a chance at life and just let him go

The detectives didn't want to have to press Tommy

They knew he was a good kid

In fact one officer had also been Tommy's rugby coach and had nothing but great things to say about him

Somebody did something right, but it sure wasn't his dad

And the last thing I want to see is is anything and this isn't trying not trying to pit you against your dad

But you're in this position sadly he put you in this position

He did and it's sad and we feel for you. You know I do you know what I think of you

And it's wrong

But I just want the truth 100% and you walk out of here and you know you're conscious is clear

If I tell you guys now tell us now and you're not in any trouble. He said he killed him

Kilvigina job just Regina

He said he was in the basement cleaning and he heard John upstairs screaming saw Regina stabbing him

Tried to get in the knife away from him and then he said he took the knife and stabbed her

Tommy's story matched the version his father gave police

That Regina had attacked John

That Tom wrestled the knife away and stabbed her

There were no other people at the house that day

Black white or otherwise

If they could just get Tom to admit to killing both Regina and John

It was their gut feeling and the coroner's reports backed it up

John man's body was pierced with multiple sharp force injuries including

To the neck ribs collarbone and defensive wounds on his hands and arms

Regina stood under five feet tall and didn't way much

Besides Tom's version was that he intervened after only one or two stavings

Then there was the elaborate cover-up including commissioning a guy named

Delugo to burn the house down after he'd removed the dogs and the carpeting

He used Alicia for contact because he was already in jail

Delugo said no, he wouldn't do it

And the defensive wounds on Tom indicated a serious altercation where Tom lost control of the blade

Not to mention the lies

The overwhelming number of lies

So detectives had one more card to play with Tom

the polygraph

And when the subject turned to John man

Tom's story started to crack

So

It was May of 2017 and a suburb of good

old Cleveland, Ohio, the home of the Browse, and a whole lot of killers, and even worse,

Ohioans. Thomas Knuff had been out of prison for just a few weeks. He was drifting between

motels, borrowing from his sons, and leaning on his girlfriend, Alicia Stoner, who drove him,

gave him money, and even picked him up. The morning after he killed at least one person inside the

house, Unnelwood Road. So yeah, you know, Tom was just living his best life. John Mann lived in

that house with his partner Regina Capobianco. By then, Regina had long since given up her part

of the bargain for living there, and was dating other men. She had also been writing to Tom while

he was in prison. In fact, it was Regina and John who picked him up on the day he was released.

Regina may have expected to carry on a relationship with Tom, but he already had Alicia,

and he also realized that Regina's drinking and other bizarre behaviors could land him right

back in prison on a parole violation. John was fed up with her too. He wanted her gone,

and Tom was all too happy to help. If Regina were out of the picture, it meant Tom could move in

and finally have a stable place to reconnect with his son and have a girlfriend. On the night of

May 11, 2017, something violent happened inside that house. John and Regina were both killed.

Their bodies hid in the way. Police wouldn't discover their decomposed remains until June.

In the meantime, Tom was getting rid of evidence and roping his loved ones into helping him cover

his tracks.

He actually ended up doing were two vastly different things. By May 17, his life was spiraling.

He was walking around with a finger that was barely hanging on, and his freedom was also

barely hanging on. In the weeks that followed, Tom didn't lie low. He went right back to his old

ways. He broke into two salons, leaving a trail that would put him back on police radar.

At the same time, he told everyone a different story. He told his son, he told Alicia, he told the police,

a story about a drug dealer, a fight. Regina stabbing John and Tom stabbing Regina in self-defense.

But there was one part he never changed. He swore he didn't kill John Man.

You know how you've heard that polygraphs are unreliable?

Well, police departments across the country insist they yield a success rate of 86 to 100%.

And Brunswick police were counting on its reliability.

The people we found in the house.

Okay. I told him the black people, and then when I ended up telling him the truth

after the truck incident, I told him what it was, and I told him I was just embarrassed,

because I had killed a girl, and that's when I told him the truth of the matter.

No, I want to bring this thing back up in this machine, okay? It says you're being

your failed. I'd say a day you'd stick up, all right? So I want to talk about some similarities

in some stuff in the injuries of those. We'll talk about that later.

Right.

Um, let me talk about that.

This is going to be exactly what I was told.

Okay. All right? Yep.

Okay. Regina stabbing in the back. Two stab wounds to the right side of the neck.

Crushed Adam's apple. Right carotid artery was cut.

Her left hand, your index finger, the webbing was cut.

Caused it down through two defensive limbs.

I know. I caused a sharp force injury in the Crushed Adam's apple, neck compression,

strangulation.

All of these injuries included or were in addition to the stabbings,

and the polygraph had confirmation.

Didn't you mention that, uh, you know, you know, several times that John was over there making

her going was like getting stuff like that. Okay. This machine says that you had stabbed John.

Yeah. Okay. Let me ask you something. John hit one stab on right here. Did you

help him stop everything by doing that? Is it the one? Did you do one stab on in the

John to help him out to put him on a measure? If you did, it's, you put him on a stab.

Detectives kept giving Tom an out. They told him maybe it was an accident, an act of mercy,

self-defense, and maybe things got out of control.

Any of those versions could have given him a softer landing, even a shot at claiming self-defense.

But Tom wouldn't take it. He stuck to his one line over and over.

I didn't kill John. You've got to help yourself out of this. You've got to tell us

what the hell happened in that house? You know, he, he brings up a good point. I'm going to let you

explain and have to do about it. We think something happened in the argument. I'm going to let him

go ahead with that. You know, brings up a good point as we talked.

You don't like when they get beat up to you? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your, your, your

stepfather. Right? Right? Your mom? Yeah. Be used to relationship? Yeah. Something about

that happened quite frequently? Well, when we were younger, you know. Where's your feelings on that?

I just loved my mom and I hated him at the time. You know, even though there were times where he

was a good guy and I liked him, you know, for certain things. He would drink and use drugs and

you know, he took all his aggression on her and you know, she's just such always a good person

and being a kid, you know, I really heard, you know, and to see her go back to him, you know.

I don't think you feel it hurt me, you know, to make you angry. Well, sure. I mean, who wouldn't be

angry? You know, I was angry that, you know, she put up with it, but I mean, obviously she felt that,

you know, she loved them and worked through it, you know, and it separated for like a year and

we got back together and what do you think should happen to somebody that beats their, their wife

or their girlfriend? I mean, I don't feel like they should, you know, I mean, I could understand why

some women do that, you know, because they feel like there's no other way out. Did you trip? Yeah,

you know, I feel like, you know, women even deserve that to when a man does that, you know what I mean?

They should be able to. So, so what was John doing in Virginia? What was John doing in Virginia? He

wanted her out. What really happened? He wanted her out. He wanted her out. Was he here in there?

I don't know. Was he here in Birmingham? I don't know. Did you see him? I've never seen him,

but did she tell you he was here? No, she told me many stories about

punching on the boyfriend, you know what I mean? She never said John heard her, you know, she

said he was dirty and never changed his clothes and I think you know that he heard. I think she

could fight any of you. And you're trying to protect her. And then she'd get angry with you for

old as going on with your job. Is that what happened? Listen man, I get it. This was their best hypothesis.

It was the only time they'd seen Tom get this emotional, other than when he was talking about a

son. They had tapped into his past to find a trigger. John was abusing Regina.

And Tom was going to stop him. But Regina was used to the chaos and abuse, so she tried to stop Tom.

You're going to give a press conference Monday morning before your rainman or telling everybody

you're here, you're being a rain. The news is going to be there. How's it going to be?

I mean, did you sit in this chair with us? Did you talk to the tankers and you tell us everything

that happened 100% to the team, which right now I don't believe. And your son is going to watch

his news conference. You know what I mean? Your son is going to watch his news conference.

Pretty soon, he may be watching it with you somewhere else because the trouble he's in.

And the list shit as well. They're both in trouble right now with this. Too much is going on

because you put them in this position. The only way for you to help them and not paint yourself

as a monster. I mean, come on. I know that you love your kid and your kid does love you.

Okay, he does. But he's going to get to live with this cloud of the media painted my father

as a monster. People know that you're his father. Would you rather just have them

him be known as it might might might might have been a mistake. He confessed up to it. He did

he did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. Who he is. I still talk to my dad and

jail. Do you want that? Or do you want everybody going? Look, your kids are monster.

If Tom had accepted their version of what happened, what do you have gotten away with it?

I mean, there was no way he wasn't going back to prison. He robbed two salons and killed a woman.

These were indisputable facts. But was it chivalry gone way wrong? Or was it a premeditated attempt

to secure a place of his own? It's possible no one will ever know, but the jury would seal his fate.

No matter what, Tom would probably spend the rest of his life in jail. But Ohio also has the

death penalty, which is a good thing, but they should use it a lot more. The relationship Tom

wanted with his son was never going to happen, at least not outside of prison walls.

Thomas E. Nuff Jr. was convicted of two counts of aggravated murder for killing John Man and Regina

Capobiaco. Along with multiple other charges, aggravated burglary, gross abuse of a corpse,

kidnapping, conspiracy, tampering with evidence, and theft related offenses.

There was, of course, a jury recommendation that the sentence of death be imposed.

The court finds, by proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the aggravating circumstances the

offender was found guilty of committing outweigh the mitigating factors. Therefore, on count two,

the sentence of death will be imposed upon the offender.

This meant Tom's son lost a father.

Because of Tom's actions, he would never get the chance to go to one of his kids' games

and walk him out onto the field. But his son wasn't the only one who suffered.

Two lives were lost. Regina may have been a bit of a wild card, but she mattered to her family,

to her friends. She was a person. And no matter what her life choices,

she didn't deserve what happened to her.

This monster took my sister from me.

My heart is broken. I don't know if I will ever repair.

I miss her every day. She would not get to see her sons get married. She would not get

call grandma. And it is all because of trying to help somebody that I told her that I thought

she should stay away from. I have horrible visions that I hope someday will get out of my head

of the murder. And no one should ever have to have these visions of a family member.

I am glad he has the death penalty. I think he deserves the death penalty.

He's had a chance to plead for his life. And I'm sure my sister pleaded for her life

that he chose to ignore.

John, man, son and sister both gave incredible heartfelt statements. And

John's son spoke for more than 10 minutes.

My dad was a goofy, bright and sensitive man. He loved the Cleveland Browns,

watching mash reruns and doing community theater. He had a full scholarship offer from

Heidelberg University of Astrophysics. He ended up floating into electrical contracting

for his interest in solar power. He loved the idea of cheap renewable energy.

He even studied to be an architect because he thought it would help him develop solar power

cells. Later in life, he became a computer programmer. He truly had a gifted mind and could do just

about whatever he wanted to with properly motivated. People tended to like my dad.

He had a gregarious and colorful personality with an oddball sense of humor.

You took my dad from me. You robbed him of the golden years of his life and the time we had

together. I miss him terribly. He proceeded to lay out how Tom had failed as a man, as a human being,

and as a father. He sympathized with Tom's son and thanked him for his bravery and enduring the

trial and doing the right thing by testifying against his own father, whom he loved. But then

he surprised everyone. You do not deserve to live. You do not deserve a human death. You butcher

two people for reasons I cannot begin to comprehend. I have wanted you to die, yet I am faced with a

reality that it will not and cannot be enough. In order to heal, I must accept this and find a way

to reconcile it against my own feelings. I will continue to beg for his life to be spared,

however, or possible. I want you all to hear it from a man that wanted him dead. As a son

to a man whose life was I did. His father, I will beg to anyone who will listen to spare his life.

I don't think we should do it for me or him. I think we should do it because it's the right thing

to do for our society. Of course, Tom is appealing and the legal fight will go on for years.

But what lingers isn't just the courtroom drama and appeals. It's the contradiction. Tom wanted

to be a good father. He wanted to prove he could do right by his son. He stayed in touch,

leaned on him, even dreamed of settling down in a house where they could reconnect.

But instead, he fell back into every pattern he swore he'd left behind.

The lies, the violence, the selfishness that burned through everything in his path.

And maybe the hardest part to make sense of is the question of whether Tom could have been

telling the truth about John Mann. Maybe John was abusing Regina, like the detectives had suggested.

And it triggered a traumatic reaction from Tom. Or maybe what happened is exactly as Tom

described. John tried to evict Regina and she went at him, so Tom intervened. Even if parts

of his story are true and noble, all of his following actions say the most. Tom's choices after

that night spoke the loudest. He hid the bodies, tried to hire someone to burn the place down,

dumped the dogs in the someone else's neighborhood, manipulated and lied to those he loved,

dragged them into something horrible, and most importantly, never called police.

Whatever happened in that house might have started with good intentions.

But what followed were really, really, really bad choices and only a complete fucking idiot

would make. Then again, this is Ohio. At the end of the day, we all have to be accountable for

our choices. We all have to be responsible for what we decide to do. Otherwise, what the fuck are

we doing here? Today, Tom's enough son is grown. He's built a life that has nothing to do with

parma heights or with the crimes his father committed there. He's well-adjusted, stable,

and in 2023 he got married. Whatever cycle Tom was trapped in, his son has escaped it. Good for him.

And maybe that's the real ending here. Not the death sentence, not the deaths,

not the appeals, but the fact that even if something so violent and tragic,

like a phoenix rising from the ashes, a different kind of life is actually possible.

That's going to do it for another one. Thanks for joining us. If you'd like to show head

on over to swordenscale.com, get the app, get plus. We'll see you next week's day, say.