Episode 331: Composition Part 4, Forms 3-4

As our children move into middle and high school, we can ask them to write in various

styles and genres.

Join us today to learn what we can do as teachers to support them in their composition

lessons while not diminishing their unique voices.

Living Book Press provides carefully transcribed living books, not just scans, and almost every

physical book includes a free digital edition.

With over 400 titles, LivingBookPress.com makes it finding resources for your Charlotte

Mason journey easy.

Use code A-D-E for 10% off everything.

Welcome to a delightful education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason

Method.

I'm Emily Kaiser and I'm here with Liz Catrill and Nicole Williams.

Charlotte Mason says, if we would believe it, composition is as natural as jumping and

running to children who have been allowed due use of books.

They should narrate in the first place and they will compose later readily enough, but

they should not be taught composition.

As we have discussed over the past few episodes, narration forms the foundation and is really

the training ground for composition.

But as students move into middle and high school, they are asked to do more.

Nicole, can you tell us what composition looks like at this level?

Yes.

So in form three, composition expands to many new forms.

Students are still going to write straight forward narrations and short essays, but they're

also tackling narrative and descriptive poems, often in the meter of the terms poet, which

they were doing some of in the previous form, but often tied to history or current events.

That was an odd one to me.

They may write balance on heroic deeds or historical events.

As I read these things, scenes for a play inspired by literature or history, they aren't

narrating the scene, they are writing the scene for the play.

And you question the current events, hello, I'm thinking charge of the library gate.

That was a current event at one time, right?

A lot of poems, time from things that they have a lot more fun with their current events

when they make it into a poem.

Letters, now they already wrote some letters in the last form.

But now they are going to write letters both real and imagined, such as from one literary

character to another.

That's so fun.

They're also going to write dialogues.

Again, this isn't narration on dialogue they read, they're going to write the dialogue

or conversation between historical or fictional figures.

Still subjects such as current event, nature observations, literature, history, Plutarch

geography, they all provide the subject matter.

Even their Sunday readings at this point may lead to a composition topic.

Resetation continues to feed their writing poise and prepare dictation and grammar lessons,

support spelling and punctuation and increased awareness of sentence structure.

Then in form four, the variety continues.

Students begin to work at greater length at this point and some new forms of writing appear.

They may write essays in the style of, in quotations there, and author studied that term.

And this is the first time they're going to write summaries of readings, which seems

a little like narration, but maybe there's some home, yeah, maybe closer to that original

full text.

They're going to write diary entries as from a historical figure, I liked that one.

They may write orations or speeches modeled after examples in their studies and more advanced

verse forms, such as blank verse or heroic meter now, it's very exciting.

This is also a time when analysis and creativity often blends.

Students may be asked to imagine a conversation between, I saw this example between Cromwell

and Christian from Pilgrim's programs or to compose a ballad about a current event.

Throughout both forms, Charlotte Mason still warned against correction or instruction, however,

she does clarify that exercises in scantian are necessary at this point.

Scantian's the act of scanning a line of verse to determine its rhythm.

Students are now required to write verse in that scans, she says, right, such as that

poem that scans, meaning they must follow the guidelines for whatever type of verse they're

composing.

So by the end of form four, the student has an impressive toolkit, the ability to write

in multiple genres, adapt their style to match an author's, compress an idea into a clear

summary and even develop a topic at greater length.

So they are, they're really doing some stuff at this point.

Well, as far as the lesson format goes, so this is a turning point here.

Form three actually has a lesson time for composition on the timetable.

In form three, it's once a week for 30 minutes, form four has 40 minutes once a week.

So these lessons are for their writing apart from the narration, of course, that just

occurs during their other lessons. They can also be used for writing delayed narration,

which is this is the first good age that they are asked to read something and then two days later

write their narration on it. And that is just stretching our intellect and remembering our memory

much more. Oral narration, however, I just need to underscore this, is never given up entirely.

Forms three and up were to write at least two written narrations a day.

And usually they have at most three book lessons a day. So maybe they would write all of them,

but not always, right? And then informing, I mean, sometimes they would say an oral narration,

not that they just wouldn't correct them. Of course, they're narrating every lesson.

Yeah. And then form four might have up to four book lessons a day. And so if they're writing

at least two, there would be at least one that was an oral narration. So the majority,

but not all lessons are going to be written narration. They're still going to be room for oral

narration. And then Sean Mason is adamant that until the student begins noticing a need for critique

and revision of his work, we still do not do any formal teaching or training of composition.

We have our students read essays, they read letters, and of course they read lots of poetry,

and they get their understanding of these forms pretty much organically without us pointing out

the characteristics of what makes an essay in it, right? Right. We do, however, as you said,

Nicole, start training them in verse, scantian at this level, but that occurs during their grammar

and lessons, right? Yes. So it's not part of that composition time, but it's aiding their ability

to do the composition prompts that Sean Mason now composition time is just when they get to practice,

what they've been learning the scantian, put it into practice as they write poem that scans in

the meter of Tennyson or whatever it is. Okay, so yes, they're composing their own verses that

must scan. And then apart from their narrations, Sean Mason tells us that at this level, she said

they should only be asked to write upon subjects which have interested them keenly. Yes. So the topics

of the compositions that we set for them are becoming a bit more abstract than in earlier forms,

right? Now we're kind of starting to bridge that you've got a blank page before you, right?

Yeah. A little more just instead of retail this or tell me what you know about this,

they're having to do some more abstract thinking. And so they need to write on things they've

actually had time to think about, right? Yes. So I think that we'll talk about in a minute,

but it is a responsibility we have as teachers to consider that as we set these. So the objectives

for composition are developing the habit of attentive reading, right? So they're using

their attention to read and that is coming out in their composition. And also to express their

ideas clearly and fluently to communicate well with writing. So our teacher prep, as I mentioned,

is to take some care to select writing prompts that they're going to be excited about, right?

I think this is such a core idea, Sean Mason, we're never trying to catch kids up about what they

don't know how to do. We're trying to give them opportunity to show what they can do, right?

And it's the same here as we're helping them develop their composition skills. So they need to be

on, we need to set questions on topics that they're interested in. And then also our teacher prep is,

we need to include scantion in our grammar. Yes. And if you don't know what scantion is as I did not

until my husband wrote a teacher resource for us. And I read through it and learned it myself.

We do have one available on our website. So as far as that, we have the scantion manual and then

now some additional scantion exercises. And we do have our composition planner that can help you

with all of the list of things you don't have to pause this podcast and try and take notes.

This can help save you. This is just the highlights. That includes pages of prompts and ideas.

Basically, it tells you everything we just had. Okay. And more and more.

So what are some challenges of teaching composition at this level, mom?

Well, there's so many probably. Nichols always thinking of those children that are just coming

into the Charlemason way of doing school, maybe at 12 or 13 or 14 years old. And they haven't had

years of narration. And I guess I would just encourage you to start with the oral narration. But

don't overlook the written for a very long time because they will catch on quicker than a six year

old well. And so they will catch up. And I don't think there's any reason to hesitate on the

composition because you don't have to have narration skills to be able to try to write.

Basically, they're given this 30 or 40 minute lesson at this age. It's a time limit. But in that

time, for once, for the first time, they're kind of set free to roam where they will and put

their ideas on paper. And a lot of them take to it quite readily, especially boys who are perhaps

reluctant. I shouldn't, some girls are also very reluctant to write. But

it is helpful, I think, sometimes when Nichols said, have them write about a character,

have them write about what they don't like about a character or, you know, because teenagers

love giving their opinion on negative things. And also, even if you didn't have that wonderful

composition guide, if you have Charlotte Mason's volumes, you can always, because I'm always

asked, well, what kind of things? I would just say a variety of things. Don't give them the same

kind of theme every single week. And start making a page in your planning notebook and jotting

down ideas because when the day comes, you don't want to be trying to scratch something out,

you know, at the last minute, when your mind's on a lot of other things. So write down some ideas.

ahead of time. I was thinking that those could come from some of the things the kids seem to be

talking about. Well, that was what I was saying. If you have a really reluctant writing boy, it's

have him write about his latest soccer game or something he's really interested in. That will

help him to start feeling more comfortable about putting ideas down. He'll have lots of opinions,

maybe, about sports or other things. But also, if you look in the back of volume three, Charlotte

Mason's school education, where she has sample exam questions or even our exam planner on our

website, any of those sections, she gives lots of. She does in volume six. So I guess what I'm saying

is those are good ideas. You might not be studying Napoleon, just substitute Churchill or whatever.

You are studying in those questions because exams basically were the writing of compositions

on things that they were assigned to do. Yeah. And that's made clear. And the notes of composition

is assessed not just in the subject of composition, but throughout the whole exam. Nicole, I was thinking

about when your son took literature and composition with John O for the first time. And he had to write,

was it a sonnet? Yes. And you were like, he can't do this. I've never asked him to do it, right?

But what did he do? Yeah, he did it. So he, we had never done scanthing because I didn't know what

that was. And John O would much prefer you have done that before you get to his class. Let me tell

you, but, but he learned it quickly through John, because he had been reading a lot of poetry. So

that came quickly. And then so he had to use those rules for this on it. And then rhyme his, you

know, certain ones. And, and he did it. And my son severely dyslexic. I thought there's no way

you can do this. But so maybe that's something to keep in mind, too, is that don't underestimate.

Yes. It's kind of the balance of what mom was saying about, you know, like definitely give

him time to do narration, but don't neglect the composition, because we don't know, they don't know

what they have in him. And I love it that Charlotte Mason actually waits till they have the skill

to write comfortably enough, you know, but they're becoming young people who have lots of ideas

and opinions. And they might even be contrary to yours. And the thing that's valuable about the

composition over a regular written narration, which is just summing up what you have just read,

they're actually allowed to bring in their own thoughts to compare to other information they've

gotten somewhere else and all that. How much should we help our child, as Emily said, Mason,

didn't want us teaching them how to write their, and it is a big temptation to interfere.

Let them experiment. I mean, you may get a wide variety of kinds of writing. They're practicing,

they're trying things out just like they might be doing in their wardrobe at this point in their life.

I have been told by so many composition teachers that they can help a child learn how to do all kinds

of things for writing, but no one can teach you your writing voice. And this is what they're learning

how to get comfort with at this age. It is how to put down their thoughts. And this was a weekly

subject, right? You already said that. Yeah, so let them struggle and learn how to do it and just

be an encourager and don't critique and hand them back to them. Make notes for yourself and work

on their paragraphing or things that you think are important in the other lessons. But this isn't

a time to really be working so much on various forms and styles of essays. It is a time for letting

them learn how to put their thoughts on paper. And I just think some of you might be

daunted by all the talk here about writing verse. For this time, you might be shocked.

You know, when I first timidly told my son he was going to have to write whatever it was for

composition that day in verse, I was shocked at how he just readily said, sure. And he did it and

that was even more shocking. So, but honestly, reading poetry is the best help you can give a future

writer. And the value of this Gantan lesson that gets tackled at this stage is I don't even know

how to estimate how valuable it is because they're really learning to analyze. And the best authors

that I've ever read were those who are extremely acutely aware of the sound of words as well as

the content. So I just, you know, encourage you to dive in. Most kids think Scantan is great fun.

So we'll be right back. Do you wish you could see how to teach lessons using the Charlotte Mason

method? Or do you find yourself in a simple read, narrate, and repeat rut? A delectable education's

demonstration lesson videos can help you find joy in living lessons taught by homeschooling parents

and college school teachers with their students. These videos show real life lessons in a variety

of subjects. From early reading lessons to so far, paper-sloit to math, you will come away encouraged

and equipped to teach your own students. Demonstration lessons help you see exactly how

Miss Mason's philosophy can be applied. Watch them to gain confidence in teaching new or challenging

subjects, and you may even want to show them to your students who need some inspiration to try

something new. Visit a delectableeducation.com and continue your training today.

Next week, we will wrap up our look at composition lessons and dive into the rest of high school

lessons. In the meantime, check out our show notes for the links to all the resources we mentioned

today. We hope you'll join us as we continue to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason method.

Thank you for joining us today. We hope our discussion serves to equip and encourage you

as we seek to explain the Charlotte Mason method. You can find the show notes in your podcast app

or by visiting a delectableeducation.com slash episodes. There you'll find links and quotes we

mentioned in today's episode. We'd love for you to help others find the show by leaving a rating

or a review wherever you listen to this podcast. This takes just a few minutes of your time,

but helps others find the show. We are so grateful for our loyal Patreon supporters

who helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to partner with us in our work here at

a delectableeducation, you can join our Patreon community and receive exclusive and early content

as our thank you for your monthly support. Find out more at patreon.com slash a delectable education.

We'll see you next time.