Ep. 34: Paradise for Normal People

0:00Welcome back to Daniela Terri's Italy. I know it's been a long time since my last episode, but I've been hard at work on the Destination Deep Dive series. So if you go to my website right now, Daniela Terri, hyphen Italy.com, you will find the links to the Naples Deep Dive, the Rome Deep Dive, and now Florence. Venice is in production. What these are are video series that are accompanied by a very, very full itinerary. So you know that program, masterclass? I've recorded it in that style. So they are small digestible videos. They break down the most popular things to see in each place, why they're famous. The Deep Dive's identify the tourist traps, the highlight places that you should go. And of course, there are so many options, but I really try to narrow it down. And then each Deep Dive has an itinerary for five days in that location. And I picked five days because I know not everybody is going to have five days in any one of those locations, but you will have to adjust based on the days that you're there.

1:03For example, if you're there on a Sunday, a lot of stuff might be closed. So with a five day itinerary, you have more than enough to choose from. And these itineraries are really what makes the Deep Dive so valuable. They are soup tenets itinerary, meaning they include where you should eat for lunch, where you should have dinner. They give you all sorts of suggestions for what to see, why you should see them. The idea really is, you know, instead of sifting through all of this stuff online, I thought through how to really have a meaningful experience in this one place, you know, if you've only got a few days, what is it that's going to tell the story of this place? And where are you going to eat so that you don't go home feeling underwhelmed or feeling like, you know, you wasted a few good meals, getting stuck in a tourist trap, but you really got to the heart of the best stuff. My goal is that you use these deep dives, you take a trip and you come back and you go, oh my God, that wasn't nearly enough time. There's so many more things that I wanted to see.

2:03That to me is the mark of an amazing trip because your curiosity was peaked. You probably experienced awe and wonder, you want to go back, you're craving more. And that means you had a very, very successful trip to Italy. So the deep dives have been something I have poured myself into. Took a lot of time. They were an investment of money. I hired a video editor to help me put everything together. I really hope that you'll take a look. Just go to Danielle O'Terry-Hiven-Italy.com. They're also linked here in the show notes at Danielle O'Terry.com. They are built on the eLearning platform called Thinkific. So they're really intuitive. You can watch and stop and come back to them whenever you want. Some of them, like the Florence one in particular, has some extra PDFs that you can download. One has a list of signature foods you should try in Florence because you shouldn't really not be eating pizza and pasta in Florence. There's a Florentine cuisine that you need to try. That's very different from Roman food or Venetian food

3:04and certainly Neapolitan food. I've also included a PDF of extra sites that you can see to really dig in to the Italian Renaissance. And I'm going to continue adding to these, you know, based on your feedback because they're on this eLearning platform, it's easy enough for me to go back to upload new material to be responsive. So please do tell me what you are most interested in learning. And I will continue to make these more and more valuable. Now, if you are a paid subscriber to this podcast, first of all, thank you. I really appreciate it. But if you are, you also get an additional discount. I'm not going to say the code here for just anybody. That is something that is reserved for paid subscribers. And that will get you 50% off of the deep dives. Which is a damn good discount. This week, I am speaking with my friends Susan Van Allen, who is a writer and host tours in Italy and has been traveling to Italy for a very long time. And the last time I was on Iskia, I ran into her at least five times.

4:07And when I was in Rome in November, I ran into her a couple of times. Then it's funny because she lives in California. I live in New Jersey. Obviously, we're not running into each other in the United States. But in Italy, we quite literally bump into each other all of the time. But Iskia is a place that she and I both very much love and a place that we both go when we are kind of tired from tours and want to relax. And the last time that I saw her, she introduced me to a place that I cannot believe still exists. It's this amazing pension, I'll wait and let you hear the entire story. But this place is a fever dream. Hi, every once in a while, I go into my photos on my phone and look at it because I can't believe it still exists. And you'll hear all about it here. So basically, I want to do an episode about Iskia. And I continue to describe it as paradise for normal people, especially in comparison to Capri, which has just become such a scene.

5:07And of course, it's still one of the most geographically beautiful places in the world. But it's just become intolerable because of the type of overtourism that really proliferates there, whereas Iskia still offers this beautiful experience. And I know, of course, you are an Iskia lover. Yes, I am. So I'm so happy to be here with Daniela, who I've known for years. I think we met at the New York Times travel show. I am a New Jersey Italian American. Even though my name is Susan Van Allen on my mother's side, the dominant side, my family came from Malise and Potenza. And I have been traveling to Italy since 1976 and loving it, seeing cousins exploring up and down the boot. I became a travel writer and wrote a book called 100 Places in Italy. Every woman should go because I'm always fascinated by how Italy seems to attract us females.

6:08And obviously, it's because the worship of Aphrodite and the worship of the woman that's been going on since the Earth was cooling. And I also read tours for women only called Golden Weeks in Italy. And I lead an extension tour called Extra Golden Days in Iskia because I love it so much. And it fits in very well with a trip to southern Italy. Why Iskia versus any of the other places that you could choose to do an extension of the Golden Days? Well, we've discussed this. We see it as kind of an undiscovered island. And I think it's a wonderful place to add to an itinerary because it is full of these rejuvenating thermal springs, which is what we all could use on an Italian vacation. But it also is just it's full of history, fantastic food,

7:08great spirit. And it is not at all overturist it. And you could get things I love to go there after October 15. It's a very reasonably priced island also. Yeah, it's the kind of place where you should just take the bus around the island, you know, because it's actually one of the easiest ways to get around. I mean, you can always get a taxi. But the taxis are pretty expensive in Iskia. It's a seasonal economy. I understand why. But most people just take the bus. You can't take the bus around it. I have found myself getting attached, as well as since I've been going for years, to certain cab drivers. And you could do this even if you're there just for a few days. You meet a cab at taxi driver in the square. And you could say I'm going to be here for a few days. And then you'll get a rate. What's kind of amazing is like they'll drop me off at a spa and I'll go to pay the, oh, no, pay when I pick you up. When are you going to be done? Or I want to go somewhere for sunset? Well, yeah, tell me when you're done with it for dinner.

8:10And then I'll come get you and we'll pay them. And then the rates can go down because they love having a regular customer. Yeah, it's a place where people that work there actually still live there. What happens in Capri now? So many people that live there rent their places out on Airbnb during the high season and they go live in Naples or elsewhere, not on coffee. And then a lot of the hotels have to dorm their staff because it's so expensive to stay. So there aren't a lot of cab drivers that live there in the way you find in Iskia who also are then willing to give you that local knowledge and have conversations with you. Exactly. Like I have Andrea and he's like, well, I'll be having dinner at home too. So, you know, what's at me? Like that. Yes, it becomes very, very calming but they're wonderful gentlemen there that, I mean, I have to say that, I, you know, maybe because I speak an Italian but they all can speak Cab English. I'm very honest.

9:12And they need to, they do need to make their living in the tourist economy. So I'm not a tourist to paying. They're always happy to get a little tip. Yeah, they're great. I've been in contact with a driver that I work with on Iskia and he said in the winter, there's just absolutely nothing going on. A lot of them go, I know someone who leads hiking there. She goes to Switzerland to work. Or they go maybe to South America or something but yeah, they don't even stick around. It becomes so many places hotels close down yeah, after. It's extending a little bit because actually early November is great there too. But so many of the hotels then close down religiously. Yeah, after Santi Santi. I wish they kept, I wish they stayed open with the hot springs. You really can swim all year round. There are a lot of ways you can stand Iskia. I mean, there are Airbnb's to rent. There are plenty of hotels. I always like staying in the village of Fortio in particular. There's a small B&B where I always stay.

10:13But when I was in Fortio last, I ran into you at least four or five times. Just truly like ran into you. And you then showed me the most amazing place. And this is a place that will not appeal to everybody. But for those who maybe travel to Italy in the late 90s or around the turn of the last century will appreciate it or people who have a particular literary interest. Can you tell me about this amazing secret that you showed me? Yes, I remember the moment when I walked out the door and I saw you there with Lenu. It was fantastic. It is called the pensione di lustro. I think it's one of the last pensions in Italy. A pensione would be a place where you would stay for like a week at least. And they serve you maybe three meals a day, if you would like. Definitely, of course, breakfast, but also dinner. So the pensione di lustro is located right near the porch in Fortio on Via di lustro.

11:18It was named after the family's ancestor, Filippo, who was in the Napoleon's army. He was a local hero. And it opened as a pensione in the 1930s by this family who still runs it. And it is, it's a ten-room pensione. You walk into the place where the horses used to be kept and then no elevator upstairs. You go to rooms that have balconies overlooking the sea. They're very spacious. They're very, I mean, they put in TV. The Wi-Fi is not that great. But they're all very clean in that wonderful Italian way. They clean your rooms very thoroughly every day. And what I love about it is that it's run now by the grandchildren of the descendants who are now in their 70s. And Giorda Giusapina and Maria Teresa, who you met. And they have a great claim to fame

12:19in that 1949 from the Capote State there. He had just become quasi-famous on the New York literary scene. He had been working in the mail room with the New Yorker. And he wrote a book that was published called Other Voices Other Rooms, which was disguised autobiographical about him growing up in the South. And he was kind of a darling of the New York literary scene. And he came and he stayed in that pension for 97 days all through the spring of 1949 from March until June. And they proudly show his name in the guest book that's still written there, you know what those huge ledgers. And he stayed in room number three. And in room number two, stayed his lover at the time Jack Dumpy, who he was,

13:23was his partner for the rest of his life. I didn't realize he was there for that long. I'd 97 days you wouldn't be able to do it now with these requirements. That's true. 90 days you got to be out. You got to be on the plane. When I walked into that place, I mean, it reminded me the pensions that I used to stay when I was, you know, student in my early 20s because they were so inexpensive. But it was just, it was like the Tarotso floors, what we call the Tarotso floor, the marble floors or whatever the stone is. Right. You know, you could smell how clean it was. It was very simple. But then like original artwork on the walls, not hotel art, you know, just like quirky, truly local. And then yeah, those, the sisters that were there in the kitchen. They're always in the kitchen with the huge TV. It's TV event. That's always on very loud. And they're, they're talking, cooking, eating. But from morning till night, like in the, in the morning, you'll get a crostata.

14:24You'll get their, their jams and honey that they, they local honey jams that they, they've made, you know, a different cake every day. And then as the day goes on, the change is smell. And you'll smell coming in in the afternoon, you smell the eggplant. Sometimes they'll be frying some calamari. And it's wonderful. Yeah, you sit there for dinner and you'll always sit at the same place, the table. And they'll, you know, if you order wine, they'll order your glass of wine then the next night, if you haven't drunk the whole bottle, they'll bring you that same bottle and keep pouring your wine in your water in that, in that fabulous pension style. And the meals are delicious. Like it's, you'll make a napolitan guttol or a calamari. There's always, it's always three courses, a pasta and then a secondo. Sometimes it'll be like veal and lots of times fish, of course.

15:24And a wonderful dessert. And then you get to know the people in the pensione. I usually go there at the same time of year. So I meet this Swiss guy who's been coming there. His family came there and he'll come there for generations' detour. And he stays there because he loves hiking up to Monte Eplemeo. And last time I was there, I met another writer from Rome, who, then I googled three things, Mario Fortunato, who wrote the best selling book called Su, then he was there with some friends. So Truan was, you know, probably not the first. I mean, I read in his biography that he was headed to Sicily. But so many people also recommended Iskia. It was probably easier to get to. But as we know in our, our history of in Taramina was so famous with the likes of Oscar Wilde and they were very open to gay tourism.

16:25And I think Iskia, as I've noticed also too, was at the time and continues to be. The idea that you could stay to pensione like that and then eat the way you can there. I mean, it's so fascinating because the idea of hospitality, of course, is that you're being taken care of. And this is what now you have to pay a premium for. But you don't necessarily get taken care of that well. You know, you don't have the same set of sisters sitting in the kitchen, keeping an eye on how much wine you had and would you like. And I noticed that she really liked the Calamari. So I'm going to give you a little bit more tonight or a little less. That doesn't happen. And even in a very high-end five-star hotel, I mean, it's turn and burn. This is an experience that used to be the norm that is nearly extinct, which is why I'm also going to say, if people listen to this and they want to stay there, do not ruin it, do not complain about the mattress, do not ask for gluten-free Calamari. Go there and fully embrace this experience as it is, because it's almost completely extinct. Yeah, bring mosquito repellent.

17:25Okay, that's good advice. So speaking of Truman Capote and the literary world in general, I always go back to the talent in Mr. Ripley and the version with Matt Damon and Gwyneth Paltrow and Jude Law that was filmed. I believe in 98 or 99. It was a big, Harvey Weinstein film, actually. It was supposed to be set on a fictional town on the Amalvi coast, but it was mostly filmed on Iskia. And even the more recent version was, I think, set in a tranny, but the idea is, is that Iskia Capri, the Amalvi coast in Sicily, yeah, were these sort of very attractive places for the literati and those places, all of these places that I've named are not then at all what they are now, but you had Graham Greene living on Capri, John Steinbeck, was in Positano, Truman Capote. I love that John Steinbeck essay that he wrote, it should be reread, because he says, they will never be tourists here, because it's too hard to get to and all the stairs and all that, you know, it will always be a small, fishing village. That's good. One of the most overtourish in places there is now,

18:27it's okay. But these were places that were difficult to get to, very difficult to get to, then, that were intensely local as well, where there was nobody speaking English, and yet these expats managed to sort of, of course, find a home there, and they all stayed for extended periods of time, and were, of course, so inspired by how beautiful these places are. Yes, he writes about, Truman Capote writes about being there with a big bilingual dictionary, is the only way that he could talk, could you imagine how funny, not Google translate, like I see people do now, but going through the books, because he became very friendly with the daughter of the owner, her name was Joconda, and she was both the maid and the cook, and he writes about her a lot in this essay that he wrote in a book called Local Color, and the thrill that I had when I went to the pension, the first time, 2013, 14,

19:27was this woman comes to my table with a crostata, and I had read the essay where he talked about the maid, and I said, it's so normal, and she said, Joconda, and I almost fell on my chair, because that's who he was writing about, he was writing about being in the kitchen with her on rainy days, and trying to make things that he made in the South, like toll house cookies, and so it was really a thrill. She is now her daughter's run it, and there's a room upstairs, it's a little bit, movie where I hear their opening, they're doing their taking care of her, because she's in her late 90s, you know. Yeah. The original Joconda. The original Joconda. Oh, he's such. No, you also spend your golden days when you're hosting your guests at the Regina Isabella, which is another important literary haunt. Absolutely, the Regina Isabella is in another village called Lacaneno, which is a perfect bay, with a perfect beach, and Regina Isabella was built by Andrea Rizoli,

20:33who came to the island in the 1950s, so shortly after Truman, and he built the first hospital there. He was also the producer of a lot of Fellini movies, and he decided over the ruins of old Greek and Roman baths to build this swanky, beautiful hotel called Regina Isabella. Queen Isabella from Spain came to Isquia in the 1800s to recover from pregnancies, and she soaked in the waters and was healed by me. She was honored there. More than the same. The Sittuta, who in the third century, washed up there, but they kind of then started calling it, or Regina Isabella, then Santa de Sittuta, but Santa de Sittuta is still honored in Lacaneno. I love all the women's history. So yes, we stay there, like I say, it's wonderful to be there towards the end of the season,

21:36where there are a few days before it closes, and we have these beautiful rooms with balconies, overlooking the sea, and the food there is fantastic. We do get special attention, because we're rattling around the hotel. There are many people staying there. They have a fantastic spa. They mature their own mud, which has been studied there by doctors. It was studied by Marie Curie. I mean, it has fantastic, ischimod radioactive powers that are really good for the bones. Yeah, it's fabulous to stay in. That's what most of the waters in Ischia are famous for osteo reasons. You know, there are different spots in Italy that are famous for different things, but Ischia's waters are good for us walkers. So for those listeners, Ischia is part of an archipelago. It's all part of what's above ground of an underwater volcano. It's an extension of what's called the Campi Flegre, which is outside of Naples. And so throughout the island, there are hot springs everywhere,

22:37and there are hot springs along the coastal towns, as well as deep in the mountains. And there are some beaches where you can just sort of climb down on the rocks and submerge yourself in warm water, but then there are these incredible thermal parks. And every hotel, even the really budget hotels have their own little spa, because everybody's got hot springs bubbling up from somewhere. But then there are nicer hotels like the Regina Isabella that have them, and then there are, of course, the big famous thermal parks, Poseidon and Nogombo, which are the most famous. So do you have one in particular that you love? Well, I love Poseidon, and I have watched it really develop for English-speaking tourists. When I first went, everything was just either in Italian or German, and it was actually founded by a German in maybe the 70s or 80s or something. So a lot of it is very efficient. What's great is you'll be so key in the pool and you'll think, oh, I have a spa appointment. What time is it? And there's a clock in your eye vision,

23:39so you'll be able to find out. And the spa treatments are, I think, are great. The reflexology, I go crazy for, and so do my women. There's a masseuse there named Nino. I've known for years as for Nino. And I mean, it's like getting a doctor's foot massage. It's really fantastic. That sounds good. Just on the treatments I've gone and soaked in all of the pools and used the beach club access, but I've never done a treatment. Oh, you really should. They do take very good care of you. They're serious. It is a medically approved spa. So one of those that Italians with their fabulous health system can get doctors orders, you know, you better go to Eastia and do inhalation therapy. They, all the school children in Eastia go to spa at a certain time of year to almost get their vaccines, but just inhale the curative vapors. Then nobody gets the flu. Yeah. Wow, I didn't know that. Gizspas really are magical.

24:39And people often when they are planning a trip to Eastia, if I'm helping them do so, they're almost always planning it in tandem with some time in Naples. So we have them seeing the failed craze to treasury of San Genato or eating pizza doing this, doing that. And then they get to Eastia and they say, well, we have nothing planned. I'm like, yeah, you're good. You don't even have to make reservations for Poseidon or Nugongbo, which I think is fantastic. Which is show up. They don't even take reservations. And it's never a problem. The entire place is chill. Exactly. And even pretty much for restaurants also, I think it's amazing. I mean, it used to be there are 300 thermal spots counting in Eastia. And it was there. It was also in the German public health system that a lot of Germans were assigned to go there. That's changed recently. So generations of Germans like in the third post war would come. And that's when Eastia really boomed

25:42in the 50s and 60s. Then as playing travel became easier and generations like, you know, kids don't wanna go where mommy and daddy always took them. So a lot of those hotels are not as crowded as they used to. And that's why the rates are also lower. And you could really get the deals on fabulous stays in Eastia. And some are devoted. There's the classic story that I think everybody tells in Eastia now that Angela Merkel after she became chancellor of Germany still wanted to continue vacationing in Eastia. As she always had and staying in the same family run B and B. And she insisted on it. But it wound up being such like a hassle for her, like security detail that she had to change course but she was really disappointed because she informed a relationship with the folks at this being big over so many years. That would be awful if I couldn't go back to my pension in the industrial. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna become chancellor. Okay. I'm not on my honesty. Yeah. No, but it's so different from Capri and geologically too

26:45because it sprung up from volcanoes and Capri broke off. From the mainland geologically. Yeah. Capri is literally a chunk of rock from the white earth island. Right. Right. And Eastia, we call the Green Island and a lot of the rocks are green. I mean, just full of minerals, which is also why it's a fantastic place for wine. And the Greeks started planting vineyards there and these Guidaniara proud to say, this is where the first wines of Eastia were planted. And it was the first place to get Doc D.O.C. status for their Pieddi Pieddiroza, the red wine. Yeah. And they have wonderful wineries. I love one in Mir Lakomeno called Tomasame. And they have a great history of wine making and they serve a fantastic, I love when they serve a lunch with the tasting. You know, it's not like you're standing by the counter. You're sitting with a fantastic view

27:47and you're getting course after course that goes with the wine and it's a fabulous experience. Did it in the mountains? Yeah, it's a little bit up from Lakomeno, but you know, we take from Regina Zabello maybe 10 minutes or something. Then the vineyards are there and then you also can see the beautiful bay of Chitarra there. Yeah, the wines there are great and also let's not forget the gardens because of all the lush terrain and the most famous is actually technically in Fureo. It's very near Lakomeno, Lamoratella gardens. It's just totally exotic. They were planted by Lady Susan Walton who was the wife of composer William Walton and it was his idea in the two transfer to have a place in East Cowork be quiet where he composed and this very clever wife

28:48that didn't have anything to do. But she happened to be friends with a Russell Page who was a famous landscape architect for gardens in England and she called him into help her and they bought in plants from all over the world and you'll have orchids like an amazing blue orchid ferns from all over plantings from South America that she bought and it became her passion project and she started opening it up to visitors in the 1980s and I know travelers that went there that said she used to be there. She passed away in 2012. It's this woman in a caftan would come out, oh, welcome to my garden, have a cup of tea. And it's a wonderful experience and if you go there in season, they also have concerts there in honor of her husband, chamber concerts and I include that with my trip, visit the garden near sunset and then there's an hour concert.

29:49They support young, wonderful musicians and you get to hear some great classical music for an hour. Do you think that East Kiaz ever going to get over touristed the way Capri and the Amalfi co-star? I don't really see it, you know, people seem to be in so much of a hurry and it's just that, it does take an hour even in an Ollie scuffle to go and I've seen it become a more friendly to English speaking tourists over the time that I've been traveling there but I haven't ever seen it be like, oh, I'm in the castle, which is so amazing to see where there's a line or you have to get tickets in advance or anything like that or even to go to the garden and just show up and get it together. Yeah, the castle is such an interesting scenario for many reasons. So first of all, the castle of East Kia is one that you'll see if you arrive directly to the Porto de East Kiaz. It's close by and it's on its own island and when I say castle,

30:49I really mean sort of like an incastillated village. It's a whole network where there was church in a monastery and it was owned by various people during different times with the most famous inhabitant, another famous woman of history, Claudia Colona, largely grew up there. Right, right. Well, she went there, she was married off and then her husband died and instead of marrying someone else and you did a great episode of that, by that might not have happened. She went to East Kia and in this part of this castle, she had a salon of poets and painters. Michelangelo was one of her very good friends and yeah, she turned into that. It became very big in the Renaissance. I mean, because of all the volcanic activity, a lot of, there was a lot of people that went there to live. It was safer, it had watchtower. Of course, there were pirates, so it's a really safe place to live and then of course people started saying, like, you know, there's all this mainland, we want to live there.

31:50So it was kind of abandoned. As you travel there, you see, it says 18 churches over the centuries there, there's a convent with nuns. There's actually a, there's a monastery there and it is now open as a certain rooms as a bed and breakfast. I've never been able to stay there. That place you have to reserve well in advance because the rooms are limited. There's, there are cafes there that I've had the pleasure of eating in but I've never eaten at the restaurant there, which is really great. But what's amazing about it too is that it's been privately owned since 1911, by a family. Yes, she's incredible. Yeah, so I mean, it's wonderful that it's open to visitors, part of it. But when I was there the last time with my little group, she pointed out, you know, that guy working in the garden over there, that's part of the family who owns it and they support contemporary artists

32:50and they have contemporary exhibitions changing every time in the old Renaissance churches and things. So it really makes it so such an interesting visit. I would definitely go with a guide there because as is in many places in Italy, it's not like things are really marked that well and you can get much better feeling and knowledge of the history if you go with a guide. My friend Rita J. King, who is my, who was on that episode with me where we discussed Vitorio Colona and her fascinating life with the discovery that perhaps she did not have children with her husband because she was in fact an intersex person. Go back and listen to that episode. I'll link to it in the show notes. She is friendly with the owners of the castle and so she had set up an opportunity for me to meet them and I was just so fascinated that the current owner, Nicole, his grandfather purchased that island when it was just derelict, but they sell tickets in order to support

33:52keeping the place open and alive. But it is truly a labor of love. It's not like they are running a five star hotel there and making lots of money. I mean, they are keeping it alive for history and truth and beauty, which is rare. And I think it's incredible. Really, really is lucky you for getting to meet them. Yes, it is and it's very well kept. You know, it could look intimidating when you see like, oh my God, it's so high up. I can't get up there. They have an elevator. Where I take my guess up. And yeah, walking around there in beautiful places to sit, you know, a couple of cafes up there that have never been crowded. I mean, and the seagull swoop overhead and you could have a wonderful cocktail up there or gelato and it's, you could spend a really long time up there. It's beautiful and I'm always fascinated. They have a gift store with little crafts. Yeah, it's great. Beautiful jewelry and it's really, it's an amazing place

34:54and the history is draw dropping. So, I mean, even though I've been there many times, you've been there many, many times, I feel like we're both falling under the spell as we're just talking about it. And that's really, I think, the vibe of Iskia. I mean, you really submit to it. Yeah, like I'd love to stay there as much as I love the pensions de luce store. I'd love to have the opportunity of staying in that castle. I've never, you know, there is the modern tea beach that has hot springs in little hot places in the sand where they cook chickens and they can cook things there. And I've never been, I've never had that experience. I really want to do it. And there's wonderful hikes that you can take. I would love to do that, you know, sure at all levels. It's, it isn't a place where you can really feel, I always feel so rejuvenated and refreshed after being in Iskia. Yeah, that's where I go often after I've done group tours

35:55and I'm just fried. And I want to go somewhere where it's going to be easy to get around. I'm going to get to soak myself. I'm not going to spend a fortune. And I know I'm going to eat well without having to have done much reservation making ahead of time. That's where I go when I want life to be easy and Italian. Right. And there is nothing as speaking of eating just simplicity. The brusquetta on Iskia is famous and big. And it comes from the Pomodoro tomatoes that must grow on the islands. And if there's something about it, they make it with a little bit of celery and maybe some fresh oregano. And they serve it on a great crusty bread. And I mean, it sounds like, oh, you know, I can get brusquip and cascading. I can get it in Rome. But now in Iskia, it's on special, really delicious thing. The most recent introduction to Iskia that we've all received has been both through women and through the literary world. And that is, of course, Elina Ferrantes, Neapolitan novels, particularly book two.

36:56Right. Story of a new name where Lila and Linu are spending summers on Iskia. Because in the 1960s, that's when it really kind of became a place where middle class Neapolitan people started going on vacation. Iskia has been abandoned during different points of history because the volcanic activity was too much. But in the 1900s, it started to research again and in particular in the 60s, that's when it became a place, I guess, the Jersey Shore of Naples. It reminds me sometimes of Naples on an island because it has, I mean, especially Floreo has that spirit. They're like, oh, I'm in Naples on an island. Absolutely. You don't really hear that in coffee. No. You hear people screaming at each other. And you know, I'll go to a church tonight. There's these two old women and what are they talking about? Like what they're going to make for dinner? Yeah. Gonna make teenagers making out sunsets in Iskia. Are so other extra amazing to me. And near Floreo, there's a famous place for them.

37:57It's like the show. Everybody goes there at a certain time of day. Kézidesa Corso, the promontary there. It's written about in my brilliant friend. And you see everybody gathered. It's where everybody had their first kiss. Staying in Floreo is definitely the move. And you can take the ferry directly to Floreo. Get off the ferry and walk to your accommodations, which is amazing. That's great. Yeah. And then you can even, I go there to Kopri, which that's a beautiful boat ride from Floreo to Kopri. It takes over an hour, but it's just, it's amazing because you're really out there and middle of everything. I think I've done that. I've never been, I don't know if I'm always there in like late October when that ferry isn't running. Well, I am too. I always try to buy the ticket. And then it's canceled for Floreo and you have to take it from the porto. But there is one regularly from the porto in the morning to Kopri. Another thing I like to do is take the ferry from Floreo

38:57to Potswoli to then go see the ruins. Right. Which I think is such an amazing thing. So Baya was this ancient Roman resort. And when you go first to Poseidon and you look at it, how it's physically laid out and it's sort of tiered. It's like terraces and you keep going up and up and up and there's different pools and gardens and lookouts. And then you go to Baya and you see the archaeological site. It all makes sense. Poseidon is of course modeled after Baya. There's almost nobody there. Everybody's going to Pompeii. There's too much archaeology in the Bay of Naples. Baya is very, very quiet. And so it can be a difficult place to understand, especially if you go on your own without a guide, but if you've gone to Poseidon already, it really clicks into place. Right, right, that's great. And then you can do a glass bottom boat tour and see the water, the submerged ruins under water. You can go snorkeling or scuba. Such an interesting place. And it's a little shaggy. It's a little, if you look at the town around it, it doesn't seem like there's a luck going on, but the history there is fantastic.

39:58And it's all part of the same volcanic chain. And then you just take the ferry back to Esquia. That's great. I'm going to do that the next time I go. And maybe I'll run into you there. That's right. And the cave of the, of the civil of Kuma. Because that's near there, right? Yeah, it is. Yeah, you can do both. Yeah, right. Which is so amazing that when I went there, it really has a deep spirit. Yeah, you don't, you don't feel like you're being catered to as Americans, but it does have. I mean, you're welcome to like family. And it's true, you know, you stay at the pensions. I mean, I've stayed there when I've been sick, you know, and they knocked on my door with Sue from out very late. Well, no, if I, if I come back, you know, a little bit before midnight, come running in and that kind of things. Yeah, they pay very much close attention to you. It's great. Well, thank you so much for sharing this, Susan. I think I hope we didn't, again, if you're going to go to, if you're going to go to this pensions,

40:58and you better be nice, be nice, it's true. No, but I mean, the people who love it will love it. And the people that I meet there are people, you know, let's have a contest of how many times we've stayed. You know, there, you will, you will be treated with a lot of great attention. Tell them, Susana, Megan, don't at least send them. You're gonna at least send them. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you so much.