Effectively Wild Episode 2447: 1-2-3, WBC

0:00Facts of the wild is the only show I'm in. Posted by England, Bergen, Mac and Riley. I want to hear about show me a time where I'm trapped with free art. Hello and welcome to episode 2447 of Effectively Wild, baseball podcast from Fan Graphs presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Dan Lindbergh of The Ringer, joined by Meg Riley of Fan Graphs. Hello, Mac. Hello. Well, we will be joined in a little while by Michael Claire of MLB.com, who is about to have a new book out. It's called We Sacrifice Everything to Baseball, how the Czech Republic's amateur underdogs became world baseball classic heroes. So it's a WBC-themed book, and Michael is in Japan to cover the WBC.

1:05And so we will be talking to him in even greater depth about Met's pitching prospect, Ryan Lambert's raw egg consumption. We have called him from many times on his way. No, that's not true. Are you shocked? Are you scared that that's what we were actually doing? No, we're not. We're going to talk to him about the WBC, which seems. That's a little shocked. I mean, it's a little scary. It could have passed me. But no, he will not be weighing in on that, unless he decides to of his own accord. We will be previewing the World Baseball Classic with him since he is on the scene to cover it. And since it starts soon, it starts, well, depending on where you are in the world's Wednesday night or Thursday, Thursday, where Michael will be, Wednesday, night where I will be. So that's soon. So we'll talk about what we're looking forward to and what he's looking forward to and get you all ready for the WBC. It's just preview week, preview month, really, here, at effectively wild. Sometimes we're previewing the regular season. Sometimes we're previewing the WBC.

2:06Before we roll Michael on in here, just a couple quick banter topics. I got curious about something, which already you're so afraid. That was a very foreboding. Yeah, nothing could come of that, I guess. I don't know that this will be of interest to anyone else, but I did get a be in my bonnet about spring training ballpark naming rights. I don't know if I could even call this. I mean, it could have been worse than that. That's fairly innocuous, but of all the things I could have been curious about. But I was curious about this because I've realized that I don't really know the names of most of the spring training parks anymore. You probably do, at least in Arizona. In Arizona. Yeah, you go to them regularly. But they're more location-based. Yes. I don't know if they have names above and beyond that. Right. Yes. So that's how I sometimes, well, they always have names of some sort.

3:10Well, sure, but do they have some kind of corporate sponsorship is what I wondered about? And my curiosity was sparked because I was reading something about Atlanta, and I don't even remember what it was. But it mentioned that the ballpark, where the Braves play in spring training, is called Cool Today Park, which I thought was pretty nifty. Cool Today Park. It's where everything is cool, but no. Cool Today Park. Cool Today Park. Cool Today Park. Cool Today Park. It's during a wide question. March at the park? I don't think there's. Well, it's a fan graph's camel case style. It's just one. So it's cool. Cool Today Park. Yeah. Because if not for the formatting, you might have thought, oh, this isn't a corporate sponsorship at all. It's just a park where everything's cool today. Aspirational. Yes. If you were extremely naive and unaware of everything, the state of professional sports, etc. But when I saw this, I figured, okay,

4:12that has to be a corporate sponsorship. But I don't actually know what that is. What is cool today? I don't know. And I guess the point of the corporate sponsorship is to get people to inquire about what it is, which is what I did. So I played right into their hands. And I suppose this whole segment on the podcast is really sort of playing right into their hands. But cool Today is a local air conditioning heating, plumbing, and electrical services company, which makes sense. Yeah, I didn't know that, but I knew that. You know what I mean? I'm not familiar with cool. But I was sort of charmed by that in a way, just because it's local. Yeah, I'm not saying cool today is necessarily of mom and pop operation. I didn't really look deeply into it. You know, they signed a 20 year stadium naming right steal, which is not the kind of thing that a corner store typically does. So I assume there are a company of some means. But also that would be kind of a low budget big league

5:16sponsorship, like a local air conditioning heating, plumbing, electrical services company. That would be so great. Yeah, it's kind of quainted away. Not as quaint as just not having corporate naming. But still, it's max of spring training somehow. Yes. Because spring training compared to the big leagues at least, it's kind of it's kind of bush league. I mean, you know, often they're minor league parks. The double is spring training parks. And it's just it's a little lower pressure and lower profile. And something about that just almost charm to me. Because on my trips to spring training, and I have not been recently, which is maybe one reason why I'm not familiar with that many of the names. I just know the locations. But it felt a little bit in the way that many minor league parks do around the country. Just, you know, it feels like a little bit of a throwback. Not yeah, not taking it to an extreme here. Because everything is kind of corporatized.

6:16But still relative to the big leagues, it feels just a little bit smaller time. Because it is. It feels like a low budget sponsor. Because comparatively speaking, I'm sure it is a low budget sponsor. Yeah, it's funny. Because like in so in Arizona, the spring training facilities, they double as, I mean, the complex league is the minors. But like it's the lowest level of domestic affiliated ball rate. And so it's not like anyone's AA affiliate is here. And I haven't done spring training in Florida. So I'm not sure. But how many places double up in Florida? Yeah, because in Arizona, not all of them do, but a lot of them do. And it seems like it removes the possibility of doing like, like what the so the brewers, their spring training complex, which I just would say, like, oh, we're going out to Maryvale. No, that's not right. Lives.

7:17Their spring training complex is American family fields of Phoenix. Right. And it's like, you guys, you don't have to like, you could, it doesn't have to be of Phoenix. Like what are we, it was French. It was a franchise of naming rights. Ridiculous. But most of them can't do that, right? Because yeah, well, there could be confusion, which American family field are we talking about? The one in Milwaukee or the one in Phoenix. But that's, it's kind of, it's a package deal. It's like, hey, we're covering all the brewers, parks where the big league brewers play sometimes, at least. But I believe it's two parks double up in Florida, in the grapefruit. Only two. And yeah, and in Arizona, it's five, I think, which I guess is maybe partly a product of just Florida being older. A lot of those locations being just longer established, maybe as a home of parks, et cetera. And I don't know, maybe it's other considerations, too, not wanting to use as much water or something, right?

8:19To keep the grass growing. I don't know. That's such a nice thing to assume, you know, that's such a good thing to, because I don't know. I'll big companies care about conservation, and environmental friendliness. But this did make me wonder just what the breakdown is in the big leagues compared to spring training. And I guess as you were saying, you're probably, you're getting most of the exposure value during that month or so of spring training, because if it's just a complex league park, like you're not really getting big crowds, right? So you're kind of getting, or hoping you're getting your money is worth during a very small portion of the calendar. But I believe that 22 out of the 30 MLB parks, so 73.3% have corporate sponsors. So all of them accept Angel Stadium, Dodger Stadium, Fenway, Kaufman, Nationals Park, Oriole Park at Camden Yards, Wrigley Field, and Yankee Stadium.

9:20And among the spring training parks, so there are only 23 spring training parks, because if the aforementioned double occupancy ones, right, 12 of the 23 have sponsorships. So 52.2%, so a significantly lower percentage. And that accounts for 15 of the 30 teams, probably don't need me to give you a percentage on 15 out of 30. But half of them, the teams, and just a tad more than half of the ballpark. So it is less common for the spring training parks to have corporate sponsors, which probably makes some sense. And I perused the list to see how many of them fit the description of cool today, that kind of, oh, this is almost kind of charming to me, that it's just a local business, promoting itself to local people. So here's the breakdown. You do have just some big old companies

10:20that you wouldn't really bat an eye about if they sponsored big league parks, too. So, for example, the Red Sox play at JetBlue Park, at Fenway South, which, come on, you can't try to squeeze the Fenway in there. If you sold out, it's okay. You have lots of teams do, but it's nice that you haven't sold out at the actual Fenway, but sticking at Fenway South there, you know, come on. I mean, maybe, I don't know. It depends on if fans actually refer to it as Fenway South ever, but I kind of doubt it. Fenway South, I bet some fans do call it Fenway South. Maybe just so is not to give JetBlue the satisfaction, but there are some other big companies. So, as you mentioned, there's American Family Fields of Phoenix, Ray, the same sponsor of Phoenix. This is a regional lander. This is a regional lander. Yeah, exactly. And then there's a Good Year Ball Park,

11:21which is the Reds and the Guardians. Yes. That probably wouldn't look out of place if it were a big league park, I suppose. So, there are some of those that fit into the, yeah, this doesn't sound bush league. And I guess TD Ball Park, which is the Bujase Park in Dunedin. Obviously, banks of a big, big league park, naming rights sponsor, so that would fit right in. But there are a few that I would say fit into the cool today category or come kind of close today. Yeah. So, there's, you would appreciate being cool today, where you live, I'm sure. It's a lot of water today, but boy, boy. It's good. It's feeling, feeling nervous, Ben, making me feel very nervous. So, we've got Baycare Ball Park, which is where the Phillies play. Baycare? Baycare, yeah, not daycare. Baycare. Baycare. Baycare is a Baycare health system, which is a nonprofit organization, headquartered in Clearwater,

12:21that operates 16 hospitals across Florida. And as of a couple years ago, it was the third largest hospital network in Florida. So, it's not Bush League, but it's not big league either. I don't think Baycare is big league, probably. They're not going to be sponsoring wells. I mean, I guess no one sponsors Marlon's Park. Maybe they figured not enough people go, well, that's not true. Now they have a sponsor. I kind of wish it. We're still Marlon's Park, but no, it's of course Lone Depot Park, which we've made fun of before. Lone Depot Park with the P in Park lowercase. That's how they style. That ****. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was wrong. I was like, oh, this is a typo. This is a typo on the part of the writer who is referencing Lone Depot Park. And then I do my little fact checking past Ben. And no, no. That's how they style it. Abomination. Abomination. Because the L is also lowercase. Yeah, Wikipedia does not comply with that, though it does know that is officially stylized as that. But we don't need to be obligated to observe that.

13:24But yes, it was Marlon's Park until 2021. And it's been Lone Shark Park ever since or close to that. So we had BayCareball Park. Now the Mets play at Clover Park. And when I when I first read that, I thought, oh, isn't that nice and pastoral? It's Clover Park. Oh, it's it's so pretty and peaceful and and spring-like. And no, that's a corporate sponsor. I always think, do they get the full value of that if you could conceivably not even realize that it's a corporate sponsor? I think question. I wouldn't even necessarily look that up unless I were looking this up for some reason for a podcast, which I don't know that I wouldn't even, just probably even hear the stat blast bar. But whatever engaged in here, if not for that, it might have just washed right over me. And I might not have even noticed. But no, this came about because the Mets had a strategic partnership with first data to rename the ballpark first data field.

14:26But then first data was acquired by Fyserve, which then led to the ballpark being renamed Clover Park for Fyserve's Clover Point of Sale platform. So yeah, how many people really are being led to the Clover Point of Sale platform by Clover Park? Probably just wouldn't even, I wouldn't even think of that. I think probably very few, if you really forced me to guess. Look, I won't say this. I'm of the opinion that if you can give me sort of plausible deniability that I am referencing a corporate entity, I'm going to appreciate it. Whether it originates point of sale, you know the other thing that people say that people are being very casual with B2B on podcasts ads now. Oh, you need LinkedIn for B2B, which is business to business. No, I don't. Guess what? No, I don't. Also, if anyone ever is like, hey, Meg is ignoring my LinkedIn request.

15:28I guess I am in the sense that I'm ignoring LinkedIn like as a platform and look at it every, I don't know, three to four months. So it's not you, or at least it might not be you. It's mostly me forgetting that I have it. But it's we don't need to allow this B2B encouragement. Okay, no more B2B encouragement. I've been unable to log in to LinkedIn for years at this point. And every now and then, I don't know. It's something like it doesn't let me log in. And then every now and then I actually want to see someone's LinkedIn because I just need to look up some video about them or something. And then I have to ask my wife to send me a screenshot of them. Because every time I'm like, oh, this time I'm actually going to log in and reset my password or whatever it is. And then I realize, no, it's just not worth the effort. I'll just ask Jesse. And that's what I've been doing for years at this point. So if you have messaged me on LinkedIn, I have definitely not seen it. Yeah, don't take it personally, just like, but also, you know, maybe take the hint that I'm not actively updating it very much.

16:29But yeah, I think you should give people possible. And this was my argument at the time. And I knew they weren't going to do it because of, well, in part because of the Tacoma rain years. But I was of the opinion that Rainier beer should be the presenting sponsor at what is now T-Mobile Park because then you could have called it like Rainier Field. And that would have been beautiful because of the mountain, you know, the mountain. But I think, and you might be saying to yourself, well, why, you're going to have your, you're going to have your local logger be the, they're owned by anhyzer and hyzer and hyzerbush. There we go. I found it eventually. I worked my way into it. I just had to get a running start. But they have the resources. And you know what? If you have to rename your AAA affiliate, like, who gives even one vote about that? But no one listened to me. You know, I was like, you could have had the, you could have had, you would have had a mountain as the, as like the neon logo above the, above the stands.

17:33But they might not want that. They might want it to be glaring and garish and ostentatious because then you're more conscious of the corporate sponsorship. Yeah, pink, if you wanted to, if you were like really committed to pink as a color. But no, so they went with T-Mobile, which is generic. And because T-Mobile does all of their like free MLV TV stuff, completely like underspecified. This is always my issue with so many of these corporate sponsorships. And why cool, cool today, cool today is cool today. Because that has specificity. You know, you wanted to have specificity. And this is why I think so many of the cactus league ball parks are great. You know, in terms of their names, because it's like, you have, you know, you have ho-ho cam and, and, and Scott's so stadium and surprise stadium and Tempe Diablo. And so whatever feels and like, I, I know where all that stuff is. Sloan park, I don't know, I mean, I know where that is, because it's like pretty close to my house. But you know what I end up just saying?

18:35Oh, where are the cubs playing today? Oh, they're in Mesa. That's when I end up saying, Ben. Oh, I gotta go to Mesa today. And I'm also charmed by the ones. There's still some relics of this that in spring training parks, you have just a guy, their named after. Yeah. Like the Orioles play at Ed Smith Stadium. And that's, yeah, I love that. I love that. Yes, and Ed Smith. He's a Sarasota civic leader who is instrumental in getting the new stadium built. I don't know that much about Ed Smith. But I like the fact that I don't know anything about Ed Smith. And I don't necessarily need to. But it speaks to a certain time and place. There's a local flavor to it. Yes. And I appreciate that the personal touch, I guess, of it. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, now the Tigers, they forever played at Joker Marshont Stadium. That's what I just say. Yeah. Well, so Joker Marshont was just a local guy and like the parks and wreck director.

19:37Okay, I think that I want Joker to have his naming rights. I love that. Except that they're going with a public's field at Joker Marshont Stadium. That doesn't work. No one is saying no words. You can't have it both ways. You just can't. I guess I appreciate that they've preserved the local flavor. And then everyone can kind of just ignore the public fields, which is what everyone does. Probably. Yeah, just because it's been Joker Marshont forever. And public is a place. Yeah, well, that's a big chain, obviously. Like depending on where you are in the country, you might not know publics, but it's an employee owns super market chain. Well, no, they don't have them where I am. Well, you don't have them, but you know what it is. Yeah, I'm aware that it's a chain. It's headquartered in Lakeland, though. And you know, they're 1,400 stores or something, just mostly all across the southeast, but yeah. But yeah, at least it's a local business. I mean, it's also a big business, but it's headquartered locally.

20:37So there's a little local flavor. So that's good. And then there's some. You're right. There's some that are just extremely generic. And I very much appreciate how generic they are. Like the rays play in Port Charlotte at Charlotte Sports Park. Yep. That's just it just says it does what it says on the tip. It's extremely self-explanatory. I did consider like Charlotte Sports as this actually a clandestine corporate sponsorship. Is that gonna be, I don't know, sporting goods company or something in Charlotte, but I don't think it is. I think it's just a sports park in Charlotte, just like it says. And then yeah, like Camelback Ranch or just Peoria Sports Complex. It's a sports complex in Peoria. And Scottsdale Stadium is a stadium in Scottsdale. Surprise stadium is a stadium in surprise. Peoria Sports Complex sounds as specific as any of the restaurants you will eat at in Peoria, which is to say not very at all.

21:39I, here's my issue with the public's one and I am going back to this. You can't say, oh, we're going to publics because that makes you think you're going to the grocery store, not for the ballpark, you know? Just like if you're in Phoenix and you say I'm going to American Family Fields, they might, someone might say, in Milwaukee, where are you going all the way to Milwaukee? See, unless you said at Phoenix or whatever it is. Right, you, but you know, you would, Oh, in that case, well, that makes more sense. Well, you know, you would really say though, I'm going to Maryville today. Well, that's the thing. There are some even big league parks. First of all, when I was doing the count of how many of them have the sponsorship and how many don't, I really had to take a second look because sometimes it just becomes so second nature to you. Right. It's so associated with that park that you don't even really think of it as a corporate sponsorship anymore. Yeah, of course fields, it's just, it's course. Like I don't even think of the beer brand when I think of course I think of the ballpark and when that persists for a very long time,

22:40it does become synonymous with the park to the extent that it becomes weirdly like you get attached to it even though it's like, you might still think of safe co. Safe co, exactly. Right. And safe co is not anymore, I don't know, quinter like connected to the, yeah, like is that any different substantively from T-Mobile? Not really, but it's just that it was the first. It was especially if it's the first, like the park opens and it has that sponsorship already. Right. Then that's tough to overcome. And as we've discussed, we don't have to be bound by these things. If you're an official rights holder, if you're affiliated with the team, then you might be bound by the legal agreement to describe something a certain way. But the rest of us, we can call it whatever. We can back when there was a Coliseum. I mean, there still is, but back when the A's played there, you didn't have to call it the Oco, whatever, whatever it rings central or, you know, you could just just call it central.

23:42Yeah. And I always think, I wonder, someone who knows about sports naming rights and the pricing thereof, I wonder if that's priced in. If it's very easy to skirt the corporate sponsorship entirely, like if people have been calling to place the Coliseum forever, and you know that they're just gonna keep calling it the Coliseum, whatever it's officially called, then I wonder whether that leads to a lower price, than if it's, I don't know, like, globalized field or something. Right. Because Coliseum is distinctive. There aren't other Coliseums in MLB today. So you could just say Coliseum, but you can't just say field. Right. You're kind of obligated to go with the corporate sponsorship just to be specific sometimes. So, and then other times, it can kind of, it's camouflaged. Because if you didn't know Great American Ballpark, you might just think that's a Great American Ballpark. You might not know that that's named after a company

24:42called Great American, right? So sometimes or American family field, I guess you could even think, oh, it's warm and cozy and American families coming out to see baseball. What could be more American than that? But, yeah, but, you know too much, but it could pass muster for a moment if you didn't know any better. It might not automatically trigger in you a thought of, oh, that must be a company of some sort. And then, so the Astros and the Nationals play at Cacti Park of the Palm Beaches. And when you see that, no. Relax. Relax. That doesn't immediately sound like it has to be a corporate sponsor. You might just know. Cacti Park. It's just, it feels like a casino. Well, so it's, the thing is the Cacti, it's all caps. So that gives the game away. Oh. And it's, so in 2024, Travis Scott purchased the naming rights to the stadium to promote his Cacti Hard Seltzer beverage. And, uh, yeah, it's Cacti Hard Seltzer.

25:44Wait, wait, wait. The rapper Travis Scott. The rapper Travis, I was just about to ask you. Yes, has a hard sell to business and Travis Scott. I'm sorry. Hit, I'm so sorry. I, wait, I'm sorry. My brain is short circuiting. I, wait. So Travis Scott's Hard Seltzer company has the naming rights for the Nationals and the Astros, yeah, they double up. Yeah. Why? I guess it's paying off yet again in effectively wild podcast. But it's probably more about the Astros than the, the Nationals, right? Is he from Houston? I think he's from Houston, maybe. I guess it would be because of that. But, uh, you could just get the exposure wherever. So he is from Houston. So maybe, yeah, the Nationals just got thrown in for free. I don't know. But, uh, yeah. So, so that's one that initially you might think, oh, it's just about a cactus. But no, it's not, it's about a rapper's hard sell to print. It specifies on Wikipedia, rapper and business man, Travis,

26:47which is accurate, because he has the hard sell to our line. Yeah. Probably a lot of other lines of investment too. Okay. And then we also have Lee Com Park. I assume that's how it said, the Pirates Lee Com Park, which is the Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, which is the largest and most applied to medical school in the United States. So that's kind of a local one, not a tiny business, but it's in the area at least. And Sloan Park, which I'm predisposed to, because it's the name of my favorite band and also my daughter. But, sure, but it's named after your daughter. No, it's not. It's so weird. It was. It was so weird if you like pulled up the Wikipedia and you're like, this is named after Sloan Lindbergh. No, I don't think the timeline matches up, because I think Sloan Park predisposed. Sloan Lindbergh, but this was named after the Sloan valve company, which is, you know, that kind of feels small time

27:50a valve company. It's kind of like on a radio broadcast when, unless you're hearing the same op otaco at every time, you would hear like plumbers and pipe fitters union and stuff. But no, Sloan is big. I mean, you see it when you go to the toilet. Lots of times. Yeah, they make like a bunch of bathroom stuff. Yeah, and also they're from Chicago. So that's, or around their bouts, which is why they're sponsoring the Cubs Park too, if they're hoping to get that residual Chicago area exposure. Yeah. And then maybe lastly, this one I do find kind of charming. The Marlins and the Cardinals play at Roger Dean Chevrolet Stadium. And I like that just because what evokes the low budget sponsorship more than a local card dealership. Yeah, that's adorable. That just, you can see that just conjures images of the ad

28:51with the the athlete in a generic uniform, because they don't have the rights to the low. Right, right, right. So, so yeah, that's, I like that. And it, everyone calls it Roger Dean, but they just, it's actually Roger Dean Chevrolet. But yeah, that to me, that's very, because that's the difference right there, I guess. Like maybe Chevrolet would sponsor a big league ballpark, and it would just be Chevrolet Stadium or something. But Roger Dean Chevrolet. Yeah, I think that's amazing. Yeah, that's, that's good, I think. So, that I think concludes my little tour of spring training ball parks and their names and their naming rights. And we have learned that it is a little less common for spring training parks to have corporate sponsors than it is for MLB parks. And also, they're a little lower budget, lower rent, though not universally so. Wow. I'm glad you, you got obsessed with this because you didn't

29:52really have anything else to talk about today. I have one other thing, which is, do you think that we will see some significant unwritten rules crop up around the challenge system? And I don't, yeah, I don't mean what we talked to Maxfield and Owen last week about the tactical considerations of when to challenge and when not to. I mean, externally, I mean, inter team, more so than intra team unwritten rules, the intra team rules might actually be written or if not written at least passed down from on high, but, but I'm talking about things that will spark some sort of bad blood, some sort of dust up. Perhaps Bench's clearing, who knows, will we see players get upset about something? And what sparked this thought in me? So was it last time we, or last week we talked about will hear Abreu and his weird broken bat check swing?

30:55Yeah, yeah. And now he has made more banter because he had, I don't know if you saw the video, I will share this on the show page and also with you, but he had a challenge that was just supremely confident. OK. It was, it was a three to pitch. And so as we discussed with with Owen and Maxfields last week, that's higher leverage. Obviously, that's going to make the difference perhaps between an out and a walk. And he was rung up on a, what was it called strike initially? And he thought that's not a strike. And you could see from our vantage point, he was right. And it was a little high and it was dragged down. It was framed. And strike three was called. He was punched out. And immediately, just cool as a cucumber, unflustered. He just gestured. And it's nice because in the past, this probably would have sparked some sort of blow up from Willier Brue. I mean, he would have, he might have objected. He might have showed up the umpire and so he might have protested.

31:58He might have yelled. He might have lingered at the plate. But now he has some recourse. And he can appeal. And he did just very calmly and no hesitation whatsoever. Just tapped his helmet. And the key is that he started walking to first base before the outcome of the challenge was clear. He immediately started moseying toward first base. And he was right. The ball, it was a ball. The pitch was a little high. And this was overturned. And he got his walk instead of his strikeout. So good for you, Willier Brue. It was, it was close though. Tom Tango of MLB said it was under an inch high. I mean, it was really, it was just off the edge and the top really. 0.6 inches, I think, distant from the strike zone. So his level of confidence may be kind of outstripped exactly how confident he should have been. But I don't know. Maybe he's going to turn out to be amazing at challenges. Who knows?

32:59But what I wonder is, if we see something like this, do you think that someone will get upset about this, that he is taking the overturned for granted, essentially? And I don't know whether it'll be the umpire who feels like, hey, you're showing me up, or whether just the act of challenging is essentially already questioning the umpires such that it's not additional damage to the umpires reputation for you to start ambling to first before the call comes in. But I think it's, it's a little bit of a show up, right? Because you put it. It's a little bit of a show for sure. It is, right? So the umpire might be pissed, but then also opposing players, maybe like, hey, wait, at the plate, you're not entitled to that base yet. Right. Yeah. So stick around until it turns out that you were not actually out and you are entitled to first base. And I don't know whether it's more likely to cause some sort of uh, bruja, uh, if the call is overturned or if it's upheld, like, yeah.

34:02If it's upheld, then he's going to look silly, right? And so I could see that being punishment enough essentially like we have to take matters into our own hands because the system, he, he's already ashamed now that he was so overconfident or I don't know, maybe it could go the other way where, hey, this is even more of an affront that you took it for granted that you were going to get the walk here when you weren't even entitled to it. So do you think that we will see at some point, some bitterness, some, some john, if not actual throwing pitches at people just some sort of drama will arise as a result of this? I think the answer to that is almost certainly yes. I am, I am not sure if I know exactly what it's contours will be though. I think that some of these things will probably fall very safely into a cat into the category of like, they, they will cause a dust up because of the circumstance of the broader game. So like any time you might imagine there being an unwritten rules controversy about like

35:08trying to pull off a double steal when you're ahead by town runs or something like that. Like that, I think challenging and circumstances where you have a really pronounced run advantage where you're into territory whereby will you can bring in a position player to pitch? I think that will ruffle feathers. And as I'm going to be announced, you can't challenge when a position player pitcher is pitching, maybe, maybe to head off this sort of things, but, but a, a mop up man's out there. And yeah, when you're, when you're up to the edge of when like you might see a position player pitch, I think that will cause some consternation for folks, which like on the one hand, I understand, but on the other hand, like those stats still count for the individual player. And so they have personal incentive for the call to be right, particularly if it's going to result in either a walk if you're the pitcher, although you're no run SC pitcher challenging, or a strikeout in the case of the hitter. So, you know, I, I can appreciate why you would still want to do it, even if it might

36:09be, there might be some people who would view it as a little tacky, you know, or piling on. So there's that part. I think umpires are going to get a little shirty if you assume the challenge call. And in that circumstance, I actually think that like there's, there's something to that not because it's potentially wounding the pride or disregarding the pride of the umpire, but because like, you know, in a circumstance like this, you might not really be legally entitled to that base until the call comes down, right? And so I think just kind of maybe by rule, it would be better at a kid's away because you're not really supposed to advance, but maybe, maybe they'll take it and stride. Maybe I'm overestimating this because we do see players sort of assume the base in circumstances related to replay review. And their ability to occupy the base might be pending the results of those replay reviews

37:11also. So, you know, I might be assuming that they're going to be a little more easily wounded than the circumstance really allows or kind of a nerd to it at this point. But yeah, I'm sure there's going to be Ben and you know, it's going to be so dumb. Whatever it is, it's going to be, it's going to be so dumb. I think that if I were a player, I would approach it in the same way that I would a bat flip where you should feel, you should be really sure that it's going to go your way before you react confidently because I think it's, it's potentially embarrassing and sort of the same way if you're wrong, you know, if you bat flip and you didn't actually hit it out, well, you look like a chump, don't you? And I don't have an issue with bat flips, but I have, I have long held that if I were suddenly a big leaker who could actually, at some point, hit a home run, which, you know, a lot of contingency in that sentence, sort of front to back, but I would feel very

38:15nervous about bat flipping, not because I think it's tacky or morally wrong or necessarily showing up your opponent, although there are times when it is, but because I fear public embarrassment in a pretty profound way. And if I pimped a home run that was in fact not one, I would need to go and witness protection. So, you know, but like these guys have to be more confident, just in general, about probably everything, but especially their job performance than I am, or it's really hard to stay there, you know, their exceptions to the rules, surely, but I think a lot of baseball players are pretty, they're pretty confident guys and it's sort of an occupational necessity that they be that way. Yeah. And we talked about the possible stress points within a clubhouse. If someone's bad at challenges and also uses them, yeah, profligately and other people feel like, hey, you're wasting our challenges or a pitcher in system challenging when everyone's

39:17been instructed that pitchers aren't that good at this or I was thinking, or yeah, if it's just, you know, there's bad blood because only certain players have the privilege of being allowed to give in the green light to challenge or maybe it's a seniority thing or something like that, but that's a little bit different. And I was thinking even, well, what if someone steals a base and then you erase the stolen base with your challenge? But I don't think it even quite works that way most of the time because it doesn't overturn the result of the steal unless I guess it overturns the result of the play to appearance. But no, I don't think that actually comes into play really very much. Well, if it's an inning ending, yeah, like strike out it could, right? But you would be your, then it's the pitcher doing it to you. It's not your own teammate. You're not going to challenge in that circumstance if you're the batter. So like the number of ways in which it would really job you, I think, are pretty limited. Yeah. So as you said, it's, and I was talking to Patreon supporter and effectively wild wiki keeper Raymond Chen about this and he said something similar, which is just whatever unwritten

40:22rules exist now, substitute challenging in there and see if it fits. And I do think, yes, the lopsidedness of the score, if you're being blown out, maybe if you're, if you're on the receiving end of the blowout, maybe you could get away with it. But if you're blowing out the other team and it's seen as piling on, I think people are going to find that to be kind of tacky. Yeah, both because, hey, let's get this over with it also because you're, you're running up the score. Even if you're actually running up your stats, which probably every player can identify with the desire to do that. And yet when it's happening against you, I do think one possibility is, let's say you're challenging a full count strike out if a pitcher has a perfect game going and you're trying to get the perfect game undone by getting that strike out change to a walk. That would be very much in the vein of the, are you allowed to bump, to break up a no-hitter or that kind of thing? So I could see that possibly annoying people, but other than that, yeah, I think the,

41:26the manner in which you challenge in your body language and your, your confidence and your swagger, that could possibly provoke something in sight. I think that sounds right. Bitterness. But beyond that, I don't think there are that many scenarios, but if, if others have ideas or suggestions, then by all means, write in and let us know, I guess, yeah, like maybe excessive challenging. What if you're just like challenging all the time and you're really good at it? That would just get super annoying because Sam Miller's theory of the case of, of unwritten rules is basically you're trying to discourage your opponent from doing something that is beneficial to them. Yep. And so you want a stigma. You want to make it taboo so that they no longer get to do it against you. So if there's a team that is prolific when it comes to challenging and also effective, I guess, because if they're not effective, they can't be that prolific because they're just going to use up their challenges. Right. Then you might get upset about it.

42:27I don't know on what grounds exactly like if they keep challenging correctly. Then how can you really fault them? But if they're doing it a whole lot and you just don't like that, they're doing it a whole lot, maybe you would just be like, hey, cut it out. Let's just get the game moving or something. So I could see something like that. Cut it out. Hey. Yeah. But this is going to happen in some way, shape or form. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So yeah, please, by all means, or like, I don't know if there's a challenge against their guy, then you respond with a challenge against their guy or so, but that doesn't even really make sense. It's not quite like the plunk for a plunk model. I agree. I agree with sort of the general spirit of our conversation around this with the oyster guys, which is that like it will take a beat to sort of have the optimal strategy proliferate down to the field level. I think that there will be a very firm understanding rather quickly of sort of the general best strategy

43:32available, but that it will take a minute for that to kind of get optimized in terms of how we see it manifest on the field. But I think teams are going to figure this out. You know, I think teams are going to figure this out. I think players are going to figure this out. I do think that we are under appreciating the number of guys who just already know how to operate in this landscape and are going to be on big league rosters. Now will they have this in your to like put that expertise into practice? That'll be a team dynamic that every club has to sort out, but I really, I think it's going to be okay, you know, the most annoying challenge behavior. I think it's going to get distance and device pretty quickly because, you know, guys are going to want guys want to get out of there, you know, if it's a blowout, guys want to go home too. But guys, they're ready to get on with the bad baseball. They're just like us. I mean, they're not. But they are. So I think it'll, I think it'll sort itself out pretty quickly. And like I was going to say, the most annoying challenge behavior was the invocation of challenge

44:33when no challenge was available for recourse last year or not in that world anymore. You know, all of these, all of these empires have had time to talk to God about how they feel about it. It's going to be okay. Yeah. It might just come down to the Han Solo. Don't get cocky kids framework of unwritten rules. Just do it respectively, I guess, because you're, you're inherently kind of calling someone out just by challenging. So then do it in a way that minimizes their discomfort, maybe, or they'll get extra upset about it. So it's smooth the way, you know, and there's nothing wrong with smoothing the way on this stuff. But like, it's an inherently adversarial kind of move. But I think that the availability of the challenge system is going to in the long run, and this might take a little while for it to do its thing. But I think it is going to reduce the general level of upset because the thing that people

45:33get mad about or a big part of what they get mad about, if you're, you know, in this circumstance that we've been describing, and you're a brave, it's to your point, you would have, you would have lost it. You would have flipped your lid because you had been called out, but no, just kidding. You weren't called out. You were safe on first base. And guess what? You don't have to get surety with the umpire because you can just go a tap, tap, tap, and then confidently stroll. And so I think it'll be okay. Well, we'll find out soon enough. If there's one thing you can take to the bank, one of the banks that sponsors a ballpark possibly, it's that baseball players will find drama in every possible situation. Oh, yeah. They will develop unwritten rules where they're warranted or not, and most likely they won't be. All right. Let's take a quick break. And we will talk to Michael Claire of MLB.com and the upcoming book, We Sacrifice Everything to Baseball About the World Baseball Classic.

47:00All right, we are joined now by our pal Michael Claire who writes for MLB.com and is currently in Japan covering the World Baseball Classic and coming to us through the wonders of the speed of light with almost no perceptible delay. Hello, Michael, and thank you for joining us. Thank you guys. It's good to be talking to you. It's good to have this connection back to home. Yes, I know you've been even gone so long. I can tell you about what it's like back home, not great, to be honest, but yeah, they deliver the Japan times every morning to the hotel room and no, no, it's, it's not great. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about the baseball for now and for the moment, pretend that everything else is not happening. Exactly. Okay. Well, you are about to be a published author. So congratulations. Your book is called We Sacrifice Everything to Baseball, how the Czech Republic's amateur

48:04underdogs became World Baseball Classic Heroes and is out in less than a month. It's out on April 1st, in fact. Did you have any misgivings about people thinking that this entire book project was some sort of April Fool's joke and that it is not actually a product that you can currently pre-order? Until I actually get the book in my hands, I'm still going to talk to you guys. I'm still like 20% believing that this is a giant prank that the publisher will hold on me. So, you know, it's like when you're in middle school and like a girl calls you, it's like, oh, you got to come to this party tomorrow night and you're like, I know there's not a party tomorrow night. I know this is a prank. So, it, it, it, it feels a little like that. So until the books are in my hand and I actually see it, it's, yeah, I, it's an April Fool's prank to me. I definitely would have known it was a prank if a girl called me in middle school because I went to an all-boy school so if a girl had called me, it could only have been a wrong number. Yeah. So, that's a little bit about my life anyway, so you wrote a whole book about a WBC team.

49:08Obviously, you are very into the WBC and so are we, so tell us a little bit about the atmosphere, first of all, because I have not had the pleasure of attending a WBC event in person anywhere, let alone in Japan, which seems like the ideal place to do so. And that's what you're going to be doing for the next little while. So, hype that up to us and tell us what you're looking forward to seeing in person. Yeah. So, the atmosphere is incredible. I'm in Osaka right now for the exhibition games and already these games feel like regular season games, those are the samurai Japan versus or X Buffalo's game last night that ended on a runner thrown out at the plate with samurai Japan trying to come back, but it was sold out. Everyone is in their seats early, they want to see Otani, they want to try and get autographs which he signs. You know, when he gets out here, he takes public BP and you know, you get this even watching last night, it seems like he was taking some pretty big cuts because it feels like he wants

50:10to do something for the fans here. And one thing that's really interesting is when Otani comes up in the States, when a big player comes up, it's, you get this giant roar, but when he comes up, it's silent for a second because everyone's pulling out their phones and then the owing down, the cheering squad starts playing and then it gets loud. So, it's really kind of strange and you can't explain it, but no, everyone's really excited out here. You say Kukuchi pitched last night, it was the first time Pitchy in Japan for like 8 years and he did the press conference last night and he said, you know, we had a lot of fun. We loved hearing, you know, the horns and the cheering and you can't ask for a better baseball experience. 2023, I was here and then in Miami and you know, those DR games, those Venezuela games, you just get the greatest baseball fan experience as possible because of all these different cultures coming together and celebrating the greatest sport to ever exist. And you know, Team Japan has obviously a number of players who are going to be familiar

51:12to U.S. audience as Otani, Yamamoto, Siyos Suzuki, but you know, you also get the opportunity to sort of get to know NPB players or there are guys on that team who you would highlight to an American audience as worth watching, who they might be less familiar with. There's a few, some with more major league potential because they're young. Heroto Takahashi is someone who might come over. He was a reliever. He struck out trout and gold Schmidt in 2023. He had a down season this past year, but he throws really hard his mechanics or basically Yamamoto's because he works out with Yamamoto. Harumi Ito just won the Salamora award, which is the Siyung here. But unlike the Siyung, if the Japanese writers don't believe anyone deserves the award, they don't give it out. I love that so much. Yeah. It's incredible. So he's actually the first winner since Yamamoto. Jugo Maki, at second base, really more of a first baseman stretched at second base, but big power, great hitter, incredible clubhouse guy, funny guy, sings and dances.

52:16He's pretty beloved. And then in right field, Kansuke Kondo is an absolute favorite of mine. He let off last night, I believe Hirakazumi Bata is going to have him lead off the tournament. Just a really solid hitter. I think he's like a 300, 400, 460 type guy in the NPB and it's a lower offensive environment there. So those numbers elevate that by 10, 15% already. He was incredible in 2023 and he's going to be a huge part of the team. And then you have Teriyaki Sato, who hit 45 homeruns. I believe no one else hit more than 33. He won the MVP and he's not even likely to start. Because if Okamoto plays third and Morakami plays first and obviously Otoni D.H.s, there's literally no place to put the reigning central league MVP award winner. So there's some issues with Team Japan this year, they're a little weaker than 2023, but that is like saying, I don't know what fancy cars are, like a Ferrari is not as good

53:22as another fancy car. Sounds like you're a real car guy. Hands covered in oil all the way. So the WBC is hugely popular and important in Japan, obviously, and if they've taken it super seriously and they've won three of five thus far, so it shows. But the numbers are bonkers, the audiences, the ratings. And I envy that, really, just the percentage of the population that is paying attention to baseball at any given time. And there's more of a history of international competition in the national team and other tournaments in Asia. But we did see a real level up last time in the US just in terms of how present the WBC was in the zeitgeist, just in mainstream culture, and even among MLB fans. It was obviously just a watershed addition of the WBC. And so now the question is, can that be repeated? Can that be built on?

54:23And they consolidate those gains? What's your forecast for just how ubiquitous, how essential the WBC is going to feel this year? Because this is a huge sports year. And it's a huge year for international sporting competitions. And we're going right from the Winter Olympics to the WBC and then everyone's looking forward to the World Cup. Obviously, it's not that level of competition. But will we at least inch a little closer to mirroring the enthusiasm for this tournament in other countries? I think we're definitely getting there. Obviously, there's still some teams in front offices that they're trying to win the World Series. And therefore, they would like their guys to be in camp. But you used to see a lot of fans saying things like, oh, the WBC, it's an exhibition. You don't really see that very often. I mean, if you go on Twitter, you'll see the worst opinions from the worst people. So they're out there. But most people are really excited for this. They like the World Cup. They like the Olympics and they understand that this is a different style of baseball.

55:24I love 162 games. I love watching a game and not caring who wins or loses because there's another game tomorrow. But tournament baseball is not like that. Even in pool play, one loss can completely ruin every plan, every hope. You know, good teams, Colombia went to a had to win a qualifier and those aren't easy. So this is, you know, obviously, we see team USA has the best roster ever. I think every team is bringing their best possible roster ever. Dominican Republic, Venezuela, I mean, the people on Mexico's roster. So the players are there, the excitement's there. Now, we got somehow the cosmos came together to give us the most perfect ending possible. Shohei O'Time is striking out my trout. We had all been joking about that being the outcome last time. And then it happened. So I don't, I don't think you can top that. But I think it's going to be, it's going to be really exciting no matter what. I mean, we could have a DR Venezuela final in Miami.

56:27And that atmosphere will be just as electric. We're all assuming, you know, Japan's going to, going to go to Miami. I've heard that the Owen Don's going to be there. So we're going to have, you know, hopefully the horns and the flags and everything there as well. It's, it's really US fans. I think are waking up to how much fun this, this tournament can, can be. And US players and US pitchers, specifically, which, you know, we, we've stepped lasted about, I've written about just the enormous difference in the quality of the pitching staff on Team USA this year compared to last time around, but really compared to every previous incarnation iteration of this tournament. And a little wind came out of the sales just because it turns out tear school bulls making only one start for Team USA before he goes back to what was it, Meg Publix, feel that Joker, Marchant Stadium, we just bantered about the names of spring training parks, if you couldn't tell, but, but between that and Joe Ryan being injured and out for at least the pull-around play,

57:29that, that takes away a little bit from it. But even a single school bull start and a couple of skiing starts and a couple web starts. I mean, that's just a night and day difference. And I think that does send a different signal. It does. It just, it was harder to take the event seriously if you were an American fan rooting for Team USA when the players themselves were not taking it as seriously. And you could understand why they weren't in the financial incentives at stake and everything. It's, it's a rational decision, I suppose, when there was not that history of this event being super meaningful, but now that there is more of that history and they are taking it more seriously, then I do think that will be contagious. So that's, that's my hope at least, but you're right. We can't possibly, I don't think, get a storybook ending like last time, because that, the more time passes, we were aware in the moment of just how incredible that was and you could see it shaping up. But I think in retrospect, it really is just a highlight of this century

58:32in the sport. And maybe the fact that we've gotten to see more of Otani in the playoffs now, not Mike Traut unfortunately for him, but at the time, it was the only way we were going to see Mike Traut and Joey Otani in a playoff like atmosphere, let alone them facing each other. And now you don't have Traut playing in the WBC, insurance issues, and also maybe Mike Traut not being as good as he used to issues. And then Joey Otani is not pitching this time around in the tournament. So it literally could not happen, but also I don't think anything quite like that could happen, but I don't want to discount the possibility. Maybe the WBC will surprise us. And I think it's actually for the best that America lost last time coming so close and having that storybook end, if America wins, maybe everyone goes, well, hey, yeah, we're America. We invented this sport, whether or not that's like true. Yeah. And instead, it wasn't an embarrassment, but it's like, no, Japan gets to walk around and say that they're the greatest baseball nation, reigning Olympic gold medalist, three time WBC winner. No, we want the title.

59:37And I think, I don't watch wrestling. I'm making a lot of analogies for things I don't actually want to pay attention to, but it feels like we've got to go get in the cage and get the belt back. That moment was so electric and exciting, but I think that one of the great things about the WBC is some of the smaller successes from teams where it's not that they are really set to challenge the US or Japan or the DR or Venezuela, but they are demonstrating sort of meaningful steps forward for the sport in their country. I think about the... So much to write a book about one of those. But I think about the way that we heard stories the last time out of how excited school kids in Great Britain were for that team and their success and learning that Harry Ford was British, right? So, or had lineage, rather. So it would be funny if you showed it to camp with the next one. So I'm curious if there are sort of smaller stories that you're excited to

1:00:42track through the tournament, even if it doesn't end with that team's picture staring down one of the best hitters on the planet. Yeah, I mean, that's some of my absolute favorite stuff in sports. That is why I really love this tournament because you obviously have the big major leaguers, but we see guys who, whether they're career minor leaguers or they play in other leagues, or maybe they don't even play professional baseball, but they can have these incredible moments because they've dedicated themselves to the sport. So obviously there's the Czech Republic, and we can dive into that, but I'll leave that for a minute. Nicaragua is what I'm really excited about. I've talked to some people down there, and Fernando Rio is a phenomenal reporter there. They play baseball all year. They have a summer league as well, and in the summer league, actually, the players play for the city they're from or that they live in. So like, literally, if you're rooting for this team, it's because the guys live there.

1:01:43So Nicaragua is a big baseball-loving nation, but we haven't seen so many of those guys get to the majors. Jonathan Loisigabini Yankee was a huge deal. So the fact that Dusty Baker went down there, and that Kanga Fee Jr. came, even just for a couple days, made a big deal. And so we can see Nicaragua's baseball improved just by being in this tournament. They won the Taipei pool. That was not expected. They swept their way through it. That was really great. Chinese Taipei, they won the 2024 Premier 12. They upset Japan to do it. They ended Japan's 27 game winning streak. That is one of the, you know, it's the biggest win in the team's history, but they're supercharging their development system right now. They're using a lot of technology with pitching, but they're captain. Chiasa Chen, he thought he was going to sign with the major league team as a teenager, didn't happen. He thought he was going to be drafted by an MPB team. It didn't happen. He went back to Taiwan, and then he became the captain of this team and led them to the

1:02:45team's biggest victory of all time. He was named MVP of the Premier 12's hit 625, two home runs. Tim Cannelli, it's his last tournament. He leads the Australian baseball league in almost every statistical category. He's also a firefighter. He just retired. This is his last tournament. You know, you talked to the guys on Australia. They adore playing with him, and now we see, you know, Curtis Mead's in the majors. Travis Basana drafted first overall. They've got more guys in college at, you know, D1 schools. A guy from Arkansas was drafted last year. So we're seeing these countries grow through tournaments like this, and we're, you know, there's, there's these lifers that have have really, you know, dedicated themselves for not a lot of money of any money. And it's because they love the game, and then they give it back to the next generation. Yeah, I don't know what's better. Obviously, it's exciting to see the superstars that we all know, but it's great to remember some guys. First of all, just, you know, it's like, oh,

1:03:47D.D. Gregorius is playing for the Netherlands. We haven't seen D.D. in a while, at least a lot of us. So there's that remembering some guys. And then there's also just the charm of seeing players show up on teams that you never would have expected them to play for. Ever since they mentioned Harry Ford cultivating an accent, I'm just imagining someone just going full method with like being on one of these teams and just doing all kinds of, I guess it wouldn't quite be cultural appropriation, but kind of just like, I really want to represent the ideals and traditions of this WBC team I'm playing for. And so for the next 12 days or whatever, I am going to fully act as if I am from there in every way. That's probably bad in certain respects, but yeah, I wouldn't to be clear. I'm not actually recommending this. It seems like you could go fast in a bad direction, but it just would be fun. But those two things are great remembering guys that we know but haven't thought of in a while getting to see where guys play just surprise roster appearances. And then

1:04:52also getting to know some guys who are local heroes in whatever country they're playing for. And you might not know them because maybe they never did play MLB or whatever. And so you can then learn about their records in their countries since the part that they've played in establishing baseball and they're in their areas. So it's all good. It's what I'm saying. I guess, regardless, I'm happy about it. Now, do you think so the five tournaments that we've had thus far, we've had three winners. It's Japan, the US, the DR. Is anyone else a realistic chance to break into the winner's circle here? Because those three powerhouses are still the favorites. And this is the best US team I think we've ever seen, even with the loss of Ryan and Corbin Carol and only one start of scu-poo, etc. It's still a super team. Do you think anyone else? Maybe it's Venezuelan. Maybe it's Mexico. Maybe it's Puerto Rico, even though a lot of Puerto Rican players

1:05:54not able to go because of insurance issues. So who could possibly break in? Because you'd still think like it's playoff baseball in a sense and isn't playoff baseball supposed to be super random and unpredictable. Like, I know there's enough of a talent gap between this team and that team that you're probably not going to see an upset even in a single game. But over the course of this tournament with a talented roster, that could happen. So it's, you know, it feels like it was fate that US and Japan were to play each other. And maybe it was because we forget Puerto Rico lost five-four to Mexico. That's a one-run game. Puerto Rico beats Mexico. Who knows what happens? Japan had to walk off Mexico in the semi-final with the lunatocamoracami double. So Mexico was a couple outs from a reliever away from a spot in the finals. And it was a trade-turner home run to beat Venezuela to come back against them for the USA. So there were three games that very nearly could have completely changed the narrative if any of them kind of broke the other way. So

1:06:59I have a newsletter going out tomorrow with my prediction. I've literally changed my prediction five times. One day, I think it's USA. The other day, it's Japan, then it's DR. Venezuela, obviously, is, I think there's four teams that kind of, if we talk about tears, they're in that tier one. That lineup is incredible. Salvador Perez, Cheerio, Acunia, big loss with Pablo Lopez getting her, but having, you know, Ranger Suarez and Daniel Polencia, I very easily could see Venezuela going all the way, which would be huge because they have only one semi-final appearance in history. Canada, I think could, could surprise. I don't see them going stronger this year. It's true. Canada and Italy seem like maybe with the most improved teams in terms of MLB talent, at least, or close to MLB talent. Yeah, I think at the winter meetings, I can't remember who's the manager of the GM for Canada. He said, this is the first time we've had to tell major leagueers, no, we don't have a spot for you now. Not every position, you know, Adam Hall, he's from Bermuda. Another great story. He's

1:08:01from Bermuda to a Canadian father, Bermuda and mother. He's in the minor league. So it's not every position, but yeah, they have to say no to major leagueers this year because there was no place for them. So I can see Canada surprising. Yeah, Italy looks really strong. You know, if Jack Heglyone, you know, wants to break out here, then anything could happen. The other ones, I think Mexico could could make a run in the bracket I did last night. Again, changed every time I had Mexico in the semifinal and could see that, you know, obviously you could do it again. So those are probably the ones I think Chinese Taipei can surprise, but that's really more of like reach the semifinal kind of surprise. So yeah, that's that's probably where we're at where it's four teams that really have a chance six, seven, eight to paint on how nice you want to be that have a chance and then 12 that could have the Cinderella run of all time. We should probably let you talk about the subject of your book just a little bit.

1:09:02Which that's the Cinderella team that's that's going to go win it all, obviously. There you go. So tell us why they should be hours Cinderella team to root for. You know, baseball in the Czech Republic is really interesting, even just compared to other European countries. So Italy and Germany, a lot of their baseball history comes from World War II. So yeah, the way I want to talk about the 2026 World Baseball Classic, I want to go 80 years in the past, but it's it's, you know, it was American military and service members. It was like a literal part of American diplomacy after the war to like spread democracy through baseball. So that's where their baseball history kind of comes from and you see a lot of the especially in Germany baseball popping up in pockets around where army bases used to be. The Czech Republic was part of the USSR and they actually hated baseball. The only reason they were even allowed to play by the government was because of Cuba and Fidel Castro. So they don't really start playing, you know, they they get their first national team in the 80s. In the 70s, they started traveling

1:10:05for the first time, not official national team where they would buy money on the black market and hide it in their equipment bags so that when they left the country, they could buy equipment and bring it back and just hope that none of the, you know, USSR authorities would recognize it. One time, uh, Jan Bogin got a shipment of three bats from Eastern bat company and he was called down to the customs office to pick it up and they said, what kind of table has three legs? And he was like, yeah, yeah, it's a table of three legs. That's these are these are table legs. So they don't even start till the 90s, but unlike Italy, which obviously has a lot of Italian Americans, unlike, uh, you know, Netherlands, which pulls from the entire kingdom of the Netherlands, Great Britain, which has, you know, a lot of passport players as people call it. The checks are almost entirely born, developed and play there. And there's only 10,000 players in the entire country. So to get to this level is incredible. They all have day jobs. There's the electrical technician who struck out Otani, Andre Satoria. Martin Schneider was a former two-way

1:11:08player. He's gain older now. He's coming back from shoulder surgery. He's a firefighter. Lukash Irkali, who is a relief pitcher, is the team's media manager and comms director. So when I'm emailing them for something, I'm talking to one of the players on the team. Their manager, Pavel Hedim is a neurologist. These guys fit baseball in around their lives. Weddings, vacations, everything is for the baseball schedule. When, when the checks got to the Olympic qualifiers by beating Germany, I believe in 2020, they had to call their jobs and say, hi, I'm not going to make it. I need more vacation time for actually advancing. So if you don't love that, we all love baseball. I'm sure all of us would trade anything to be able to go strike out Otani. You can't help but love the sacrifice that they've made and all the work they've put into this program. And did the exposure they got last time around? Do anything for baseball programs in the country

1:12:10for recruiting? How's the squad looking this time around? The squad is definitely stronger than last time, but I think we're going to see the real effect 10, 15 years down the line. One of the things you'll notice when you watch European baseball is that the players are a lot smaller. It's because the best athletes, whether because they like the other sports more, they think they have a better chance of making it a career. Go to soccer, they go to hockey, they go to basketball. Now though, because of their performance, they were on TV for the first time. They're getting some of those best athletes. They want these kids now want to play baseball. They understand it. And the other thing is the world has sort of accepted the checks. We saw Otani wearing the check hat. Well, the Chibalote Marines have an official partnership with the checks where they have a coach flyover for spring training and they have a partnership. Japan and Chinese Taipei for the first time ever played at Prague Baseball Week. The checks hosted the 2023 European Championship and they set records for European Championship attendance in the tournament's history.

1:13:13Nothing to do with with, you know, Czechia, but Italy and Netherlands never had that many fans come out. So it is just, it is absolutely blown up. Merik Loup became the first Czech player in the NPB. He's the first European developed position player in the NPB. He only made it and this is where it's so heartbreaking. He made it two games and then broke his wrist and that was it. But he, you know, he did it and now there's that pathway. He just signed with the Caliente de Durango in the Mexican League. So it'll be the first Czech player there. The level is rising, the increased exposure, the number of players coming out. It's still a sport that most people there don't even know it exists. But if you love communities and like, you know, we all are in the effectively wild Facebook group, that is a community of baseball super fans. Well, I think you'd get along with the people who come out to watch Eagles Praha or Droughtsey Burnow because they're baseball obsessives in a country that doesn't even know baseball is there. Do you think that if an injury happens

1:14:15to anyone prominent in this year's tournament, that it will be as big a deal, as big an existential threat to WBC participation as it has been in the past? Or have you reached the point where the tournament is seen as just a constant on the baseball landscape? And if someone gets hurt, well, that's a bummer, but it doesn't danger anyone's participation in future tournaments. That's what I'd like. I don't know that the WBC actually increases risk for anyone, at least it didn't several years ago when I looked into that and you just have to remember how many guys get hurt in spring training. But I guess it's more galling if you're someone who thinks of this as an exhibition and what matters is MLB and your team that you root for all the time, then you're upset when someone gets hurt in service of some other team's goals, right? So do you think it's still an issue? Obviously, it's been an issue for insurance coverage and player participation. But if we get another Edwin Diaz, if Edwin Diaz himself gets hurt again, I don't wish that upon him.

1:15:19But do you think that it will cause as much hindering and we've got to go back to the drawing board and we've got to play this at a different time? Or will it just start to seem like, well, this is part of the cost of doing business because when guys play sports, some of them get hurt. I am still a little worried about that. I mean, because we saw the reaction to the Edwin Diaz injury, but he didn't hurt himself playing. He hurt himself celebrating. Things happen. People slip in the shower. Jeff Kent slipped washing his motorcycle, Winkwink. It's just life. The human body is not good at not falling apart. Entropy awaits us all. My biggest concern would be if there's a major injury, something like Tommy John, right? Where it's from the tournament, the guy walks off the field and now he's gone. I think the tournament's going to survive. I think it's gotten too big. I think there's too many players who are excited and even just from a business perspective. It's just too strong. There are so many countries around the world. If Major League

1:16:23Basel wants to grow and expand, this is a great way to do it, to bring in those new markets. So I think the WBC will continue on, but if Paul schemes, God, I'm not going on every piece of wood simply for his health and baseball's health. But if that was to happen, I would not want to pick up the New York Post or come anywhere near Sports Talk Radio for a good long while. Yeah, I don't know if I'd recommend picking up the New York Post most of the time. I mean, some of the baseball coverage could be okay, I guess. But yeah, I feel especially bad for Pittsburgh fans because they just lost Sydney Crosby for a bit because he got hurt in the Olympics, of course. But yeah, that's kind of what I'm talking about where there's this extended historic storyage tradition of international, you know, best-on-best competitions in hockey and USA versus Canada means an enormous amount and holds a lot of significance. So not that that necessarily makes penguins fans feel better if it is on the IR for four weeks or whatever, but

1:17:25it doesn't look at you. It doesn't endanger the enterprise, right? I mean, not that NHL players have been appearing in the Olympics all the time, but you had the four nations face off, et cetera, right? So like the tradition of yes, we're sending the best players to play in these national or international tournaments. That's not going to go away because someone has a lower body injury, but it still feels tenuous enough, I guess, at least for American players for it to possibly throw a wrench into things, but I hope not. It doesn't help that the active pitching literally is not something the body is made to do, you know? Your body can run, you know, all the other things and other sports are like, yeah, your body is made to do this. And the main thing that starts every play in baseball is like, oh, no, you're destroying your body a little bit every time you do this. And until we figure that out, I think it's going to be a concern forever. So if we can get doctors and, I don't know, scientists, aliens, whoever can fix that, that's that's the real

1:18:27secret, I think. I do not say this in any way to try to disrespect the current coaching staff of Team USA. But I am curious, there's this like under maybe a examined aspect of this, which is that big league managers are kind of busy this time of year. And the rest of their coaching staff is too. So you end up with staff that are largely made up of former players, guys who don't have current managerial responsibilities beyond the WBC. I wonder if you've thought of any nifty solutions to that because it does strike me as an area where we might be able to add a little bit of marginal juice to the team by having guys who have more current sort of exposure to big league methodologies and coaching techniques, not that you really have to tell Paul Schienz very much. But has any thought been given to that about how you could have the dugout in the WBC reflect maybe a more current big league dugout? Yeah, it's really interesting

1:19:29because in a way it feels almost like for coaching staffs, this is their minor leagues in a way, you know, Albert Pujols, Yadier Malina, you know, maybe Mark DeRosa has dreams of a major league job where it's like you prove yourself here. It's just really tough too because even talking to some of these other national teams where it is a bigger portion, you know, when you talk to them, you're like, hey, you're the pitching coach. What do you do when the guy gets here? And they're like, you know, we're not fixing mechanics. We're not touching that. We don't have the time to do that. You know, we can put in a training method. It seems like the Czech Republic are a little different because it's sort of top down. But even then, they're like, hey, when a guy shows up here, we're just like getting them ready to go and just like tweaking the smallest thing. So it's one of those things where it's also like in a short tournament, like if you brought in, you know, the giant staff or the Yankee staff, like what would they do differently? And that's right. I don't really know the answer to that. So it's a good question. And I don't know what

1:20:32difference they would make and how we could get around to doing that. Because yeah, if people don't like the players leaving the team during spring training, I don't think they're going to love the entire coaching staff up and leaving too. How often should the WBC be held? Because after the last tournament ended and we were all riding that high, I wrote something, just I demand that there be more WBCs or something give us more WBCs. And eventually they complied, but it took a few years. So should this be something that happens more often than every three years or even every four years, just because I guess the next one is tentatively going to take place in 2029, right? I guess subject to CBA stuff. And then was there a plan for the following one to be 2033 and go back to the every four years? And it just, it feels to me like we don't need to do it that infrequently because there are a lot of reasons why the world cup is that infrequent and the

1:21:33Olympics or that infrequent. It's just logistically. It's just such a heavy lift. And there's so many qualifiers and so many participants. And it feels like we could do this more often if we wanted to. Obviously, if it's every year, then it becomes kind of commonplace. Maybe it's not quite as special, but also people get in the habit of watching it and caring about it. So what do you think is the ideal WBC cadence? My dream is every three. I think every three is perfect because you have the tournament. And then your one is you can, you live in that glow. You know, you wouldn't want it to be the next year. And then year two is qualifiers. So then they get as much attention as you want to give them. You know, it's sometimes when it's like qualifiers and then immediately you have the, you know, it kind of gets lost in a jumble. So year two is you get the qualifiers. And what I would love is something similar to soccer where not that there's national team breaks, but maybe around the time that the qualifiers are happening, the other national teams get together

1:22:33for workouts or something, right? Just so that they feel like more of a team that that would be really cool for me. And then year three, you have the tournament. The only issue with that is then you do because it's not every four years, you start running into the Olympics and 20 30. So if it's 229, 232, well, 232 is the Brisbane Olympics. And I know I'm hoping that that is a country that will get baseball in. I know that something baseball is trying to do. And so then then what happens? Do you go forward? Do you skip it? Do you say the Olympics are the WBC? So that's the logistical area there. But for me, three years makes it feel special. It also then feels a little less like, oh, it's, yeah, it's the baseball world cup, but we're not just copying everything the world cup does. We're, it's three years, not four years, totally different, very, very different thing. I know I said at the start of the segment that we were going to try to ignore the nightmares for a few moments. I just talked about the baseball, but this is after all an international sporting competition. And if we've learned anything from recent examples of that, whether it be four nations or Olympics, et cetera, they very rarely are cleanly

1:23:39delineated from politics, right? And you've already seen, you know, there have been some teams that have had issues getting personnel into the country, which could be a larger issue for teams heading into the regular season, but has already had some effect on the WBC. And then, of course, you have the Donald Trump factor. He is a sports fan. He pays close attention to sports. He likes to step into the spotlight that sports can confer upon him. And well, we just saw what happened with Team USA, right? Where we had this triumphant double gold and great feelings and and then you have the FBI director celebrating in the locker room. You have Trump calling and insulting the women's team, et cetera, right? And the players yacking it up about that joke. And then there's a whole new cycle after that where some of them say, yeah, we shouldn't have done that. And others defend themselves and say, oh, you're too sensitive. And everyone's looking for a reason to create a problem right? We've seen this so many times. And given the political makeup of

1:24:39baseball teams, at least American players compared to hockey, it's pretty comparable. So if Donald Trump were to decide to insert himself into this tournament and try to make a show of supporting Team USA and let's say they win, you know, glory, glorying in their victory with them glorifying himself, I guess I wonder what the likelihood you think of having that happen and having that really boil over because, you know, it's, it's nice just to root for Paul Schienz as just a good baseball boy, you know, and not have to worry about what his political opinions are and what he said about the US asserting its dominance and where he and Livy done whose sweet they were in at the CFP title game. It was Donald Trump's spoiler. So will this boil over in baseball? Or do you think the fact that the WBC, at least as of yet, is not national and international

1:25:42news to the extent that the Winter Olympics are that maybe this will escape the ever-roving eye of the president? He can't predict what is going to happen there. But unfortunately, we have seen politics already be involved. There is a big question on sort of what's going on with Cuba. There's reports that are changing a little bit, but it seems like that while the team got the visas, some members of the federation, which typically just come along. It's not an issue. We're, we're unable to get visas. I can't confirm where that is right now. Unfortunately, you can't separate sports and politics. And that's been one of the issues with the Cuban national team. Regardless of of this, we see, you know, Cuban Americans choosing not to play for the team because they feel like the team is an extension of the government, where the goal of international sports is that we can all come together and enjoy the fact that we can share in this game, enjoy that we can play it and see each other's people and competitors, and we can ignore whatever

1:26:46the governments are doing behind it. That's the dream, right? But unfortunately, the way the world is right now, I don't think we're going to be able to avoid it, unfortunately. And we'll just have hope that the tournament is so good and everyone gets along. You know, I talked maybe about six months ago with Pat Borders, who was on the 2000 USA Olympic team, who beat Cuba. And it was a huge rivalry. And, you know, things weren't great between America and Cuba then. But talking to him, he said, after the game, we all went back to the Olympic village. The Cubans came over. We traded equipment with them. We hung out and we had food. And it's like, that's, that's what you want. That's, that's what we're hoping for. So let's, let's hope for that. And just because you, you mentioned the women's team, I do want to say this July and a July, the, the women's baseball world cup is back. So not only do we have soccer world cup and a July, we've got the, the women's baseball world cup back. This should be the group stage. And next year will be the finals. It kind of is, is split that way. But yeah, we're going to have international women's baseball too, which is, uh, which is going to be great. Yeah. That's a huge year. Do you think Clayton Kursha is

1:27:50going to pitch in the WBC? Oh, one hundred percent. One hundred percent. This is, this, this, do you think they're going to pitch in a high leverage moment? Yeah. I guess what I should have seen video of Clayton Kursha pitching. I just saw video Clayton Kursha pitching. He always had a dad bod. It's more of one now, maybe. Yeah, I wonder, you know, like, are we hoping that it's the ninth inning of the final and you bring in Kursha and you see the last inning for the, this Hall of Fame pitcher and better be a large lead. Yeah. Yeah. You know, is this going to be where then everyone goes, oh, we couldn't do this in the, in the world series, but he, he comes out here. But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm interested, but that's another thing too that speaks to where the tournaments that were this guy who retired. He wanted to pay his own insurance in, in 2023. But, whatever the number was, he couldn't do it. And so even though he's like, I'm done. I'm retired. I'm leaving the game. He's like, no, no, no, I, I want before my baseball career is done, before I put my jersey away forever, I want to do this. And, and, uh, I mean, I think that's, that's pretty

1:28:52cool. Alexi Ramirez is, is 44. I do want to mention he's playing for Cuba. That, that should be mentioned. He, he hasn't played in the majors since 2016, I believe. The various prediction markets and odds and such. I think have the US team about even with the field. So US versus everyone else that the championship odds are about even there. Do you think that's roughly right or do you think that Team USA is being underrated or overrated at this point? Because, you know, I, I said before, like, even though the pitching staff is better, it's not like a 92 dream team situation. You know, it's, it's much more evenly matched than that. And I'm glad because I wouldn't want us or any team to just walk all over everyone. I don't think that would be as fun. So I don't understand odds, plus whatever I don't understand what that means. Um, but, you know, what is it? It's probably like 32% chance America wins it. 30% chance Dominican Republic. 29% chance. I think others are putting it at like 50% US wins it. 50% someone else does baseball is too weird for that. You could have

1:29:56Paul ski, you know, especially with pitch counts too, like, Paul skiing's could throw five, six, seven. No hit innings. And it's a two nothing game. And then someone comes in and gives up the three run home run. It's baseball is, is, is too strange. And what's great about tournament, baseball is small ball is kind of important because one, you just sometimes just need that, that one run and maybe that one run knocks the US out in the quarter final. And everyone then in America goes, what's wrong? We brought the best team. And it's like, it's one game. You don't get a seven game series. So yeah, I think a 50% odds for America is, is way too high. I also, I just think the, I think there's three, four teams that are much closer to each other than, than America kind of lapping everyone that way. All right. Are there any last storylines that you're following that we have not discussed or any particular players or teams or just anything prominent or obscure that you care to shout out? Oh, that is such a great question. There's, there's just so much that now my mind, of course, just like went blank all of a sudden like, oh, yeah.

1:31:00Yeah. There's twins on Australia's pitching staff. Locklin and Alex Wells, Alex Wells made the majors. Locklin left baseball fell out of love with baseball then came back and is in the KBO. He just signed with the LG twins after pitching with the heroes. That's awesome. Alfredo de Spanier is back on Cuba's roster. He's the old time home run leader in the tournament and he's 40 now and he's back. Kevin Kelly for Netherlands is a name you probably don't know, but in the semi-finals of the European baseball championship, playing Spain who was the reigning winner, Tom DeBlock got hurt two outs into the game. Kevin Kelly came in, pitched the rest of the game and struck out 16 batters. I don't know if he can do that at the WBC level, but like, wow, that's incredible. Like, we should be talking about that. That's one of the all-time greatest relief performances in history. So I'm, I'm just looking forward to, to that, you know, Adam Stern for our BIs inside the park home run, Martin Musique home run to beat China. Like, who are, who are the guys that are going to

1:32:01become worldwide celebrities that we just have no idea about right now? Yeah. And which team will you write a book about this time? Give us, give us one last tidbit from your reporting, from we sacrifice everything to baseball without giving the whole store away. Just another little, illustrative little morsel that you uncovered. With Martin Musique, let's, let's talk about him, the home run he hit to beat China. His mother was in the stands and she kind of became a celebrity. You see her crying behind home plate. Well, the reason he started baseball, he said he was a chubby little kid with too much energy. So one day they just saw an advertisement for baseball. He was like five, six years younger than everybody else. His mom dropped him off there and that became his life. He swung the bat, hit the ball, fell in love, and that was everything. And so for him to hit that game winning home run and to have his mother there, not just in the stands, but sobbing behind home plate, she knew nothing about baseball when he started and then look at this.

1:33:03So it was just, my kid needs something to do for a day. Let's try baseball. That was it. That's how he started. And then we see how just how much it meant to, to that family. So that's, that's what this, this, this tournament is about. And last time Tim Cannelli, the firefighter on, on Australia, his daughter was there. She was three years all the time, started a, let's go daddy champ that all the fans and the Tokyo dome joined in on everyone is chanting, let's go daddy. So that's that specific enough that could apply probably to a lot of players on the field. Yes, they all have enjoyed it. They all enjoyed it. They all loved it. So yeah, I'm just that there's, there's, there's so much great stuff here. And to me, this is just a huge celebration of baseball as baseball. And, and that's what I'm looking forward to. Well, we're looking forward to your coverage of the tournament. Your enthusiasm is infectious. If we weren't already excited for the WBC, I think we would be now, but we were, but still even more excited now. And also excited for your book, which Meg and I already got our grubby hands on.

1:34:09So we got an early advanced copy. But you can also have Michael's book in less than a month. And you can pre-order it now and every author will tell you pre-orders much appreciated to show some interest. And it's from the venerable baseball press. Well, it's not a baseball press, but it feels like it is sometimes the University of Nebraska press, which has been interviewed on this podcast about how it publishes so many excellent baseball books. And this one is called, we sacrifice everything to baseball, how the Czech Republic's amateur underdogs became world baseball classic heroes. We will of course link to it on our show page. So let's hope we have a great tournament and good luck to your checkmates. And we will talk to you soon. Thank you guys so much. This is going to be a fun tournament. And I look forward to seeing what happens. Well, speaking of politics and baseball. And for that matter, the New York Post, I saw this quote from Monday after we finished recording. Donald Trump told the post in regard to the

1:35:10possibility of sending American troops to Iran, quote, I don't have the yips with respect to boots on the ground. Like every president says there will be no boots on the ground. I don't say it. I say probably don't need them or if they were necessary. I actually wish he would develop the yips in that sense. That will do it for today. Thanks as always for listening. You can support the podcast on patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild and signing up to play some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad free and get yourself access to some perks. As have the following five listeners, Andrew Renek, Errathorn, Father of Erragorn, Drew, Brady Miller, and Zach Johnson. Thanks so all of you. Patreon perks include access to the effectively wild discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, personalized messages, shout outs at the end of episodes, potential podcast appearances, discounts on merch, and ad free fangrass memberships, and so much more. Check out all the offerings at patreon.com slash effectively wild. If you are a patreon supporter, you can message us through the patreon site. If not, you can contact

1:36:14us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcastedvangrass.com. You can rate, review, and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Music, and other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectively wild. You can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at our slash effectively wild. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash effectively wild. And you can check the show notes in the podcast post at vangrass or in the episode description in your podcast app. Thanks to Shane McKean for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode soon, we'll be previewing the Yankees and Cardinal seasons if all goes according to plan, so we will talk to you then.