Dr. Daniel Hai on Healing Beyond Labels: Connection Over Diagnosis

0:00It was only a few versions ago that women having a job was a disorder. This is like, shut up! No, I'm not shutting up. I missed it. Yeah, okay, and it's like a bunch of white dudes get together in a room and say, here's what everything is. No. If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement. That's 888-831-1581. And if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. One call placement is affiliated with Carrera treatment, wellness and spa, and one method treatment centers. Today's guest is one of those rare people who actually understands what's going on under the hood. Not just emotionally, but neurologically.

1:01Dr. Daniel Hai is a clinical neuropsychologist, founder of the neuroassessment center. The guy people go to when everything else has failed. Dr. Daniel Hai, how you doing? I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Well, thanks for joining us today. Where'd you come from, in Sino? Yes, that's where my office is. I really wanted to prop myself for you. But it is actually really true that I do see the cases where people don't seem like they have any hope left. Good. Let's get right into it. Sure. You call what you do neurocognitive therapy. Break that down for the audience in plain English. What are you actually doing to people's brains? Neurocognitive therapy is holistic in a sense that it works both on what's happening neurologically and emotionally. So basically, you'll come in. I'll do an assessment on you.

2:02Then you'll do actual treatment. And we'll do cognitive rehab. And then after that, I show you and I graph your results in terms of the improvements that you've actually had. So instead of actually just coming in and saying we're going to talk about our feelings, it's a little deeper than that. And I like to show evidence demonstrating the results. So through the testing, through the testing and through real life. So it's ecological, which means my lens is based on what's happening in real life, not on tests. I'm also not traditional in that sense with that clinical information of what's happening in the client's life is way more important to me than what's happening on the test. Okay. Let's move on. You're blending neuropsychology, mindfulness, attachment therapy. Sounds like a lot of science and soul. How do you keep that from turning into mumbo jumbo? I think that we, as psychologists, have stolen a lot of

3:02people's philosophies like Buddhist philosophy, Judaic values and all those things. And I think I really like to get to the roots of it. And most research does dictate that the therapeutic alliance, meaning the attachment that you have with a person, determines how well you do. So I could throw five different therapies at you. It doesn't mean anything. No, unless you have the trust of the patient, you have nothing because you're not getting anything. And that's what's the most important thing for me is that there needs to be an alliance. That emotionally corrective experience of actually trusting someone that's here to help you and actually getting to know you and pushing you is way more important than I'm doing DBT CBT right now. Right. And they see that in my office and I think that's more important. Yeah. Okay. But it's true holistic treatment is what it is. Yes it is. And if you're going to put all those things together, okay, you're treating the whole person, right? Got it. You talk about treating the whole person.

4:05There it is. What does that mean? Like what happens in your office that doesn't happen anywhere else? So I look at things of all scopes, whether it's actually your blood test results, nutrition, I look at your emotional results, I talk to you about your family. There's no stone that doesn't get unturned in the office. Yes, holistically speaking, I like to look functionally at the root cause. I only know one doctor who does all of those things, including working out with the patients, right? Teaching them how to sail on the surfboard, right? Whatever that's called. Check all their medications to see how they're interacting, looking at the blood work. I know one doctor named Kenneth Speel Vocal and he works for us.

5:08You're the only other doctor that does that type of thorough evaluation and treatment. Oh, I think that guy is particularly special. I'm not as special as our guy, but what does make me special is I do do exposure therapy. And I will go to people's houses and explain exposure therapy. ERP, exposure and response prevention therapy. Oh, that really helped everybody. Okay. It just means that I'll meet you where you're at in your life. I will go outside of the office. You're not just going to sit in my office. I'm going to go outside of the office. I'm going to meet you where you are in your daily life, whether that's, you know, I've attended classes. I've prolonged, long time helped with an adult community integration program, meaning I helped autistic adults date. So basically exposure therapy is if you've got an agoraphobic, someone who's afraid to leave the house, okay?

6:09Then you'll make certain that you take them out of the house to give them exposure to the outside and little increments so that at some point they're like, oh, this isn't so bad. In a way, I will meet them in classes. If they're having a hard time doing school, I will meet them in nightclubs. I will need them where I need to meet them to make sure that they never met anybody at a strip bar. I have. Really? I do things that are uncomfortable. Do you get a lap dance? No, I did not. You were in a strip bar and didn't get a lap dance? Absolutely. You know, that was an exposure therapy for me. I have a germ. A phobia. You have germaphobia and you made it up in the strip club? I did. Yeah, that's bad. Can you imagine how he mendel in a strip club? Unfortunately, I can. No disrespect to how he mendel. Love knowing men. Yeah, no. I put myself in uncomfortable positions. They put themselves in uncomfortable positions. Why shouldn't I? There it is. Good for you.

7:09You've got people out there saying functional medicine is BS. What do you have to say to that? I think it can be BS. I think anything can be BS. As we talked about earlier, it's the trust that you have with your provider that determines the symptom relief. Well, let me just go in there because I am a huge believer in functional medicine. Good. I think what you mean is and you do functional medicine. So it can't be BS. What's BS about it is there are so few psychologists, therapists, psychiatrists that actually have the ability to help anybody. So when they try to do something, okay, it's not top notch. Yes, it's really, it's quality to determine is really what you're, yeah. Let's be real. Most therapists barely understand trauma. Let alone the brain. What do you see them missing every single day? I think a lot of people haven't done their work. Like your own personal work and they don't look in the mirror.

8:10I think having your own therapist as a therapist is crucial. I think consulting with other people is crucial. I've been in therapy since I was four. I'm still in therapy. Being aware of myself knowing my limitations and understanding what I can't do is important. And I think that that's really the differentiation there is really knowing those differences and also understanding that maybe you're projecting your trauma on someone else. Maybe this time you don't know. Maybe you need to look a little deeper into what you can know. And maybe you shouldn't write someone off right away or maybe that person just doesn't want to help themselves. And maybe you just need to accept that. When someone's been through hell, trauma or addiction, relapse, whatever, what's the first thing you look for neurologically? That's broken. I think neurologically speaking, I am looking for not just executive functioning,

9:12meaning for instance, there are certain tests that see how often a person is obsessively, compulsively, like not willing to let something go. They get stuck in a thought pattern called preservation and they can't let things go. And sometimes that's a thing that a lot of people mislook and don't spend enough time looking at. It's not just working memory. It's not that at all. Sometimes they really can't let something go and that I think is a big part of me looking at. How is this affecting you? And what's the difference between how you were in terms of pre-morbid intelligence? What I mean by that is that someone reads and through their reading I can tell what their intelligence was before any injury, before any addiction. It's kind of like reading has shown to show with people at least that are English speaking what your pre-morbid intelligence is. So if your pre-morbid intelligence

10:13doesn't match your actual fasting. Describe to the viewers what pre-morbid intelligence is. Pre-morbid intelligence is what your intelligence should have been, would have been if you didn't get through experiencing the trauma that you went through. So it was basically before you had your drug use or your trauma where you were right beforehand. Exactly. And what your capacity was, what you're capable of. And now why doesn't it match? No, no, no, no. How the hell can it tell what your capacity was? That's horse shit and I'll tell you why. Okay, that's complete horse shit. I couldn't read when I got out of high school. I mean I could read but I couldn't understand what I was reading and if I read out loud, I couldn't understand any of it because I was too focused on the actual reading to deal with the comprehension. It's not reading comprehension. It's reading out loud. Okay, reading out loud.

11:14Reading out loud. I still sucked at it. I could barely read, I taught myself to read at 18 with the sports page with studs like Jim Murray and Scott Osler and J.A. Adande. And you know, that's how I taught myself how to read because that was pretty much the only thing I was interested in at 18, right? Now, I'm clearly not that. I mean, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed for sure. Okay, I may not even be the smartest man in any room I'm in. That's fine. Okay, but you know, I am the chairman of a healthcare corporation. So I'm not completely devoid of talent. And if you would have checked pre-truck use what my capacity would have been, I'd be homeless. Yes, I think that you have to use the proper norms and the clinical history is a play. If someone has like reading issues, you certainly wouldn't use that to determine their capacity,

12:17so to speak. Excellent. What would you use? You'd use a clinical interview. You'd use basically some people use the Toffle. The Toffle is a test that basically asks you about your childhood and asks you about where you grew up. It asks you about what your parents did or didn't. And I'll be candid about... That's good, my wife. Yeah, the limitations of neuropsychology. Call that again. The Toffle. The Toffle? Mm-hmm. So that's the free mode. They're only available from like October through November. They're available all the time, but I do love white truffle. But no, it's not as good as actual act truffle, even truffle. Not to me, but I'm a snob. Right. Okay, go on. I do think that being able to determine someone's pre-movered intelligence is a grandiose task. I think that you can't really tell what someone really does or what their intelligence is just through testing, which is why I go out of my way to look at advanced norms

13:20and look at people's families' histories and things of that nature as well. And I do know the limitations within that, definitely. Nice, nice. Okay, that horse shit thing might have been a little harsh. No. It's chill. Right. Can the brain actually heal or are we just learning to live with the damage better? Both. Some of the brain actually can rewire through the neuroplasticity. Some say it's through neuroplasticity. Some call it a higher power. Some things we just don't know. But yes, I do believe that there are ways for the brain to not just heal, but get better. And there's also ways for it to just stay stunted for where it's at and it's case-by-case dependent. I certainly think that there are some people who just, you have to accept that that's where they're at. And some keep them and stabilize them there so that they don't atrophy. Harm reduction. It's all about understanding what someone's limitations are ethically, absolutely.

14:22Okay. What does ethics have to do with it? Well, you know, a lot of people who are per se neurodiverse on the spectrum, all these other things, they think that there should be functioning at a certain level. Sometimes they're pushing these people beyond their comfort. They have all this weight on their shoulders or supposed to perform a certain way. That doesn't help them. Ethically, really means what do they want? They want to perform better. They get to make their own decisions. Right. And sometimes they do want to perform better and sometimes you have to tell them where they can and where they can't. And if they do want to perform better. Oh, you tell people that they can't do something. Sometimes I do. Yes. Like giving an example. You know, maybe someone wants to become a basketball player and they're, you know, five one. And you're struggling with grandiose, do you? I do. You have a guy who came in at five one who wanted to be a professional basketball player. I worked at treatment settings and I had someone really just think that that's what they wanted. He was trolling you. Give me another example.

15:22You are in a treatment setting. This guy's in rehab and he's not trolling you. Go on. No, I really truly believed he was all about basketball. That's all he talked about. I don't know if he was trolling me. I really believed that that's what he wanted. Okay. Oh, sweet. What else do you use? What else do I, you mean what other cases? What have I said? You know, sometimes, you know, it's even like when I counsel other therapists. So some therapists come to me for therapy and I have to acknowledge my own limitations. You're not going to understand what it's like giving birth. You're not a woman. I am sorry. That's something that maybe a woman can only experience. You have to know what literally are your limitations. I am not going to become a astronaut. I wish I could. I don't have the capacity for it. There are some times you have to tell people what your limitation is. What's the difference between being in recovery and being recovered? Now, this is an excellent question. What's the difference between being recovered

16:24and going through recovery? I'm going to get past the semantics here. I think you're always in recovery. I think every day is a fight. And that's what it's like for me. That's what it's like for you. Yeah, it's over. No, but every day is a fight. Well, you're going to see if people are coming to you in crisis. They're not coming to you on a winning streak. Okay. So every one of those people that you've seen, right, is, you know, in recovery. They are in recovery. Do you believe somebody can be recovered? I think you have to fight for maintenance. I think that's something that you have to hold on to. Okay, so you haven't read my book. It's called Transcendence. Okay, okay. And it's about you can recover, right? Let me give you an example. Okay. I was in Italy a couple of years ago, four years ago now, three years ago now. God, this is good TV, isn't it? So three years ago, I went to Italy.

17:28And I was in the most beautiful place with my feet grounded in the sand. Looking over the Mediterranean, it was sparkling like diamonds were dancing. I mean, it was, and then I turn around and I look at the marble mountain, a mountain made out of marble, okay? And I was just in there. And this whole scene just made me wella. And that's why I call the Treatment Center Carrera Treatment Wellness and Spa because I named it after the town Carrera that I was in. It was one of the most magical times I've ever had. Now, I had a glass of wine, okay? And I'm sober, right? But I asked the guy to pair my food. Never had it. I wanted to pair the food. And well, there was one dish, but he did it.

18:29And I'm drinking the wine and about halfway through the glass. I feel it and I went like this. I pushed the glass away to the center of the table and my thought was, this feels nice. This is nice. Now, what the addict brain does is this feels nice. More is better. That's the addict mind, okay? So the fact that you can do that, right? And Sans, I've probably had 10 glasses of wine. Never went to a second glass and I don't think I've ever finished a glass. But it feels nice. And so I do it. No wreckage, never a problem. Help everybody I can, right? Don't harm anybody.

19:30I think that there is a point where there is no struggle. And I know many people who have transcended addiction and alcoholism, that's a thing. And it doesn't get talked about because everybody wants to adopt the disease model. And that's a lie. There is no tumor, there is no virus. Where's the disease agent? There is none. Am I wrong? I think that that perspective is a good one because it brings some positive change, but I think some people don't get to transcend. Most people don't get to transcend. 90% of the people don't get to transcend. And the reason they don't get to transcend is because they didn't do the work in order to transcend. It's something that you've got to work on. For example, I've got therapists back in the day.

20:31I found out that one or two of them didn't have their own therapist. And I told them they had a week to get their own therapist or they were gone. Because you can't give something away that you don't have, okay? Same type of thing. I think being transcendent as you put it also requires a certain level of respect and maintenance. I do know that heaven forbid, you don't maintain routines that brought you there that you can fall back. Absolutely. And that's what I mean by never fully recovered in my opinion. I think that it's something that you can get to, but I do think you need to maintain it. Well, you need a healthy lifestyle, right? So when I wake up in the morning and I roll out of the rack and I do my prayers and I get quiet for five minutes, I get in the shower, I come out, I work out, don't worry, I don't get sweaty because I don't do it hard enough, okay? And I take my medication, I give myself my shot

21:36and I have my coffee and go to work. Now, that's my routine in the morning. It's been my routine now for 15 years, at least. Can you imagine what would happen if you didn't have that routine for a year? Yeah, I'd go insane because if you don't move your body, you get sick. And that's my point is that you always have to work at it. And I think that's something that people get to remember have to know, you don't just get somewhere and now you're fine, right? Look, you're in great shape, aren't you? You're in great shape. For 59, I'm not pissed. Well, just for a human, you're in great shape. That requires maintenance. If you don't maintain that, it's gonna go away. Right. And that's the point. There is a gray area here. There's color, it's not just recovered and not recovered. There's something more here. There's a process, good. Okay, we're saying the same thing. We are different ways. Beautiful. Well, that's how people learn, right?

22:37They hear it in different ways and they get clarity, clarity is power and then they can use it can actually be applied. Do you ever get pushback from other doctors like, who does this guy think he is? What's he doing? Yes, I do. And that's an example. I like to stay partially employed and contracted. I do what I think is best. And I do. Wait, you work for yourself. I do work for myself, but you can't be canceled. You're top notch. People are gonna come to you because they want the finest of everything. I try to maintain a humble stance and understand that I'm not at your level. And please, first of all, I'm not a big shot. I'm at nobody's level. Okay, I'm fine. No one. Okay, easy to say from where you're sitting. I'm sitting in the same chair you're sitting in. Yeah, but you own it, dude. Come on, if you want the chair, you can take it with you on the way home. Well, it won't fit my car, but I appreciate the gesture.

23:40Go on. I don't get along with everybody on blunt. That gets me into trouble. As you can tell, you are a blunt person as well and you just sort of say how you feel. I don't mince words in that way. And I do get in trouble for that. Sometimes there's treatment team that has like 20 different chefs in the kitchen. It's like, oh, this person said this. That's, you know, that person said that. This person said this and it's like, you know, I understand, but just like in a restaurant, there's a chef. Have you ever gotten to a room with a team of people charged with treating one client and sat there in front of the client and the doctors and said, you're all idiots, listen to me? No, I should try that. It feels really good. I don't know if, sometimes I think I'm the idiot, honestly, but I don't know if that would be good for the client because I think the client needs to trust the treatment team. I also don't like triangulation. The treatment team is horse shit

24:41and they're not serving the client. Wouldn't you tell everybody in public that that's what's happening? No, generally what I do is I have a discussion with the team. I don't wanna humiliate anybody or myself or the client. No, no, of course you would have had the, listen, of course you would have exhausted all of your identities and you would have had the conversation with them, but I'm just assuming. No, I've, I've, that doctors, a lot of them have God complexes. Right? Yes, and I try to put mine in check all day every day. I look in a mirror and I try to make sure it's not my baggage, but at the end of the day, yes, I've gotten there and I have taken people that I have been with me for years out of treatments to different places that I thought were better for them because the team wasn't aligned in a collaborative approach. That's right. That's exactly right. The client is my boss and I, that's how I do it. But you have a therapeutic alliance with your client. Absolutely, so do the fact that you are the psychologist and he's got medical doctors or whatever the hell he's got.

25:43Right? You're the psychologist. You're the one with the therapeutic alliance. You're gonna get what you want. I want an egalitarian approach for the client learns to trust themselves and I don't tell them what to do with their own life. I don't want them dependent on me. I want them to leave me eventually and come back later and if they need maintenance work with me, that's fine. But that's the word ends. I am not an enabler and I will never be that therapist. That's a grandmother that's sitting there petting someone who's stuck in the same circle their whole life. Who are the five pillars? The five things you build, every person around when you're rebuilding a life. And if it's a horrible question, you don't have to have five pillars. You could have two or three or whatever it is, yeah. Five pillars or two or three. I think I have to look at first of all where they came from and what it is that they want in order to build a proper foundation. To me, that means a strong support system.

26:45A, no support system, forget it. Well, don't you create the support system? I try. It's show me how. What would you do? I go to comes in, no support system. I go to 12 step meetings with them at times when they're scared to go. You've, there's some 12 step meetings that maybe the client doesn't agree with them. Maybe I don't either. So we leave and we try to find the ones that actually vibrate with the client and I try to meet people there. Like that's the exposure I'm talking about. You know, I connect them with case managers that can actually bring them the right kind of people around them and I try to make a collaborative approach. Cause I didn't. Let me ask you a question. If you have someone that all they want is that being a relationship, do you ever send them to like sex and love addicts anonymous to look for the week one or no? Maybe that's where they come to me from.

27:46Honestly, if that's all they want, no. I'm just, I kid, yeah. No, no, yeah. No, we talk about why that's so important and why they can't find that inside and why they think that that's going to like save their lives all of a sudden and why that sort of approach may lead to deep code dependency and why that's not a great approach. Just, I just need a relationship and I'll be happy. Right. I'd be happy before so you can be happier and wholly together with another person. Don't expect the other person to make you happy. That's way too much pressure on a human being. You know, I didn't have a successful relationship until I learned her love language. If I would have understood that principle, right? That just means love her the way she needs to be loved. Right, give her what she needs, right? For example, I don't want anybody to cook for me.

28:49If I had somebody, you know, if I wanted somebody to cook for me, I'd be getting Julia Childs, okay? That's not my love language, right? So I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you ever teach them how to have a successful relationship and how to be a real man or a woman? I do my best in terms of helping them understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and that it's the truth, you know? Grandiosity's a bitch and someone needs to pull up a mirror and say, hey, you have to see past yourself if you want to connect with someone else. And in order to do that, you have to listen. And in order to listen, that's how you find out what someone else's love language is. You know, taking a step back, looking at the bigger picture, that's a huge thing. And I think it's fundamental and good therapy. And that's something that's good with not just

29:51relationship therapy, but, you know, people who struggle with that struggle at work because they don't understand what other people want or what other people need. You're exactly right. And they don't know how to be vulnerable either, a lot of the times. And so we have to work on that. And again, that comes back to trust. You don't trust me, you can't be vulnerable with me, we got nothing. I'm gonna send you to someone who you can trust or we can work on trying to trust. But beyond that, if you're unwilling to take off your mask, forget it, go get lost, go to another office because I'm not gonna work with you. Good, that's integrity. What's the most misunderstood concept in neuroscience right now, something people keep quoting wrong on TikTok or podcasts? Oh wow, it's a loaded one, contentious. Look, people keep labeling things over and over again for the same things over and over again. And it's just continues to happen over and over again. Whether it's being on the spectrum

30:52and quoting neurodiversity is being on the spectrum and neurodiversity actually means that you don't have a regular neurological functioning. But then, you know. Okay, but wait, go ahead. When you're neurodivergent, you're gifted in a lot of areas, but you're weak in a lot of areas, right? It just means you're wired differently. Okay, fine, you're wired differently. But are you or are you not gifted in certain areas if you're neurodivergent? You're more likely to be, but not always. You're more likely to be sure. You know, I think that's also a misconception is that you think someone that is neurodivergent is automatically has that and sometimes they don't. What I hate about that is when you label them as being somehow less than it pisses me off because a lot of times they're better than in a lot of areas

31:54and then they're weak at other areas and you build up the weak areas. You know, diagnostics to me, they don't mean a lot as compared to functionality. Okay, let's go. Yeah, you want to do it? Yeah, give me a rant. It was only a few versions ago that women having a job was a disorder. This is what, shut up. No, I'm not shutting up. I missed it. Yeah, okay. It's like a bunch of white dudes get together in a room and say, here's what everything is. No, it's for insurance. It's diagnostics are meant to guide clinicians, but what if our obsession with diagnosis is what's stopping us from getting better, right? And I'm a glorified diagnostician, but I try to practice functionality, right? First, what does this mean functionally? And I'll share a small story if you permit me to. Would love you to. I started out in a field, 18 studying music, musician,

33:00state run home, adolescent kids. I met a kid and we built a very strong attachment. At that time, he was 11, he was nonverbal, no eye contact. He had diapers and I learned how to change his diapers. His hands were pretty bruised because he, you know, self-injury was hitting himself. They told me he would never talk. They told me that he just was what he was. And I just worked with what I got. I sang to him. I changed his diapers. I helped prepare his food and held you. 18. And we got to a point where one day as I was changing his diapers, I blew up the rubber gloves into balloons. And he took these gloves and he started hitting them. So it became a ritual where every day I changed his diaper and every day he would take the glove

34:01and hit them. Now fast forward a year later, bruises are gone. Fine, he's hitting these gloves. They're telling me that this home is closing. And I have to say bye to this kid. Now you have to remember I'm so uninvolved at this point. It was a very, very delicate time for me. I was attached to this kid. I didn't know how to say bye. I went to go make him a balloon. As a parting gift, one final time. There were none left. I broke down. Snoddy, a 18 year old kid with like a Jew fro looking completely unprofessional. He took my hand, which that on his own was special because he doesn't touch people. He took my hand. He took me to his closet. He looked at me and he said, okay, he talked.

35:04He said, okay, for the first time. And then he opened up his closet. There were like 300 freaking balloons in that closet. He kept every single one. He gave me one. That moment, like that made my, my, I was like, I'm addicted. I want to do this for the rest of my life. That's how I got started. I love that, I love that. What's the one thing you believe about the human brain that most your colleagues would roll their eyes at? Don't worry, I get that all the time, okay? I believe that there are senses that we're unaware of. I believe that intuition is greater than you know. I do believe in a higher power. I don't believe that everything is science. I believe there's some things you just don't know. And I do believe that there are things that some people are able to do, that some people aren't. I don't think, I don't think science explains everything.

36:06I really, really don't. And I don't, and I do think that our cases were spirituality overrides it. I think because it centers you. It centers you, but it also does things to you that maybe we can't explain in the brain. It connects you to people and ways that you can't explain. And I think it's really dramatically disrespected and not looked at enough. Yeah, if God wants to get involved, the kit's fixed. Okay, what's next? Where is this all going? Are we on the verge of a total revolution in mental health? Or are we just dressing up old ideas? I think that people are tired, you know, the client calls I get. People have been through treatment.

37:06It hasn't worked. They played thousands of dollars. What's different this time? I don't think we're necessarily at a place where things are getting better all the time. Some people are looking at ketamine, some people looking at psychedelics. I think that those are interesting, but I think at the end of the day, we are dressing up old ideas in some ways. I am not happy necessarily with the advancements. I think we're still, I think we don't know that much about people in the brain. I think that we pretend we do. I think that good healthcare is what it's always been. A person who knows themselves, knows their limitations, and actually can give that help to someone. I think those are the real differences. I think mental health and the treatment of mental health is getting infinitely better very quickly.

38:08I really believe that. And I think it's important to be on the cutting edge of everything and every new modality. And I also think that the reason people, look, the science is always 15 years roughly ahead of the practice. Sure, right? So I think that's the problem. And I think it's getting better. I really do. And I think with the addition of AI, and as that gets better, it's going to assist you and other physicians, and it already is, okay? By giving you, you know, your first draft, right? And you're looking at it like, yes, yes, no, no, yes, yes, no. And you, I think it's, do you use AI to assist you in any way? Absolutely, it checks my grammar.

39:09It checks your grammar, it's to check your grammar. I have atrocious spelling and grammar, absolutely. Hold on. Your AI is your English teacher? Yes. God damn it. I'm 100%, you know? I'm not, you know, I want to get an idea out. I want it polished and organized. It helps me do that. I do think that we are AI can be useful, but I do think that sometimes, the thing that's overlooked is that, like not everyone and everybody is good at pairing people up with the right person, and I think that that connection with a person is the most important thing. I do too, but I do, but they're not mutually exclusive. I'll take it. All right. If someone listening right now is barely hanging on, what's the one thing you want them to know about their brain, their healing, and their hope? What you're experiencing right now is temporary. It feels like forever.

40:12There are probably people in your life that you don't know of enough that would, you really matter too. And even though you're worn out and even though you feel stuck and where you are, don't give up. That was perfect. That was perfect. And we are going to end on that. I think if we take one thing from today, it's this. Your brain isn't broken, it's adaptive. It's protecting you in ways you might not even see. But the same system that kept you alive can also keep you stuck. And that's where the work begins. We're not talking about coping anymore. We're talking about transcendence. I'm retreating.

41:12You already know. We're out of time. See you next Tuesday. Yeah. We're out of time. Please subscribe on YouTube. Click the thumbs up and leave a comment. Please subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify and leave a rating and a review and share the we're out of time podcast with others you know who will get value out of it. See you next Tuesday.