Dogman Stares Down Two Brothers in New Jersey

0:00Earn your Farm D in as little as 33 months with West Coast University's hybrid program no bachelor's degree required. Eligible transfer credits may be accepted. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. Your path to pharmacy can be closer than you think. West Coast University's hybrid doctor of pharmacy program can be completed in as little as 33 months and no bachelor's degree is required to apply. If you've started pharmacy coursework elsewhere, WCU may accept eligible transfer credits to help students keep moving forward. Learn online, train hands-on at our Center for Graduate Studies in Los Angeles, and prepare for real-world pharmacy practice. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. Welcome to the From the Shadows Podcast. I am your host, Shane Grove. And before we get started with this episode, I just want to remind everybody, go check

1:00us out from the shadowspodcast.com. If you have an experience or a sighting that you want to share with us, hit the contact button and send me an email. If you want to come on the show and share with all the listeners, that's the best way to do it. I'd love to hear from you. Why are there? Go check out all of our social media. And if you want to help support the channel, you can become a member through YouTube or through Patreon. Get episodes commercial-free and early. And then there's bonus episodes. So go check that out and help support the show. Now with that being said, long time listeners will know we just had one of my favorite guests, the father's son duo that came on to share their evidence of maybe a New Jersey devil. We did a live with them. So if you haven't seen that, go check it out. But I kind of challenged everybody in New Jersey.

2:01I want to hear some more New Jersey stories. And you know what? Vinny answered that call. And I think everybody's going to be glad that he did. So Vinny, I'm going to turn it over to you and let you tell this story because it's probably one of my favorite dogmaid stories I've heard. So let's know. Yeah, no pressure. She's having me, I'm seeing. No pressure. No pressure. Yeah, no pressure on me. Yeah, so essentially I'll set it up like this. So I don't know if the I did watch the first episode you had those gentlemen on it. Some really cool looking evidence down there. I didn't I honestly never thought to look into that, but I'm glad those guys did. But I think they'll tell you, you know, growing up in Jersey, like I guess the New Jersey devil is a thing, but I grew up in the central portion of the state. And we never talked about cryptids or heard about cryptids. I think I mentioned to you, we definitely saw the end search of show that had like the

3:05Patterson Gimelon episode. And I think there was another episode they did maybe at Loch Ness or something like that. But it's one of those things where you see it and then you just kind of forget about it. You know, when you're a kid or when you're an adult, there's just I never was around anybody that talked about this stuff. But you fast forward to it was 2001. And it was just starting to be summer in 2000. I believe it was like June early June. And my brother had been doing some camping from April on in the state parks up in Sussex County, New Jersey. And there's four or five of them out there. But the one that's all the way to the top of the state is called High Point. And he hadn't been there yet. And he wanted to go. And you wanted someone to go with him. So I went with him the first time, the second time and then the third time we went was when this incident occurred. And I had taken off. We both did.

4:06We both took off the Friday and we were going to hike in for Friday, Saturday and then leave Sunday afternoon and come back. Now we did it. We would take the Appalachian Trail. Like there's actually a trail in High Point State Park that leads to the Appalachian Trail. And then you could either take it south or north essentially. We would jump on it and then like it was like a northwest, the early direction. And then we would come off the trail. And he would walk us into usually like a patch of a laurel or something and then we'd like beat a circle in there. So we could sit up in the laurel because his theory was always like a bear won't walk through the laurel. So, you know, and if it does, we can hear it. So you want it to be in. That's where you wanted to make camp. So that's what we did. And I think it was he had gotten. Oh, he got even to this day.

5:07I don't even know. No one could have texted him because we didn't have cell service, but it was a call. I think he got what you get calls. I think and he found out that there was like a no-easter coming in something happened where we weren't going to stay anymore. This was the Saturday morning. And instead of staying till Sunday, this was about eight in the morning. He's like, let's eat, hang out a little bit and then we'll get out of here today because there was some weather. I think that was supposed to come in that next day. So as we're probably going out there two, three hours. So we're walking out now. It's probably between 10 and 11 a.m. We're walking out. It was broad daylight. Beautiful day. It was like 70 something degrees. And I was in front of him making a path towards the looking for the trail. We only had been walking about 10 minutes when I hear my brother say, dude, I seen a dog. And I'm like, okay, what do you mean you saw a dog? I was like, all the way out here. I'm thinking, oh, my son, it doesn't even make sense. And he goes, let us not the issue that it's out here.

6:08I'm like, well, what the hell is the, you know, what's the issue? And he goes, it was on two feet. Now, I told you when we talked, Shane, I literally thought that he was just messing with me, you know, because I'm so even hearing it today, even though that happened, it just sounds so stupid. You know what I mean? Like, you saw a dog on two legs. Like, because that's when that, when that's your first exposure, I guess, to the subject, it just seems so ridiculous, you know? So my whole time I'm taking, he's messing with me. But I turned around and he did look, he did look, you know, I'm known my brother and he did look pale. He looked like he saw something. So I stopped and I walked over to him and I'm like, well, show me where it was. And he just gave me like a direction. And there was, there was a couple of big trees. And then behind those trees was like a little bit of a clearing. And then on the other side of the clearing was back to thick woods again. And he said it went behind that tree right there.

7:12So I had streamed to the, I was carrying a pistol at the time. And after I realized that my brother wasn't kidding, then my mind went to, it's like a dumb ass and a costume. It's got to be, you know? So I'm yelling at the tree like, dude, you need to come out. I'm going to shoot you. You're freaking us out. That kind of thing. Just hoping that it was scary to come out. It didn't, but I did all of a sudden see a giant black head peek out. And I was, I'm six foot. And this thing was definitely tall. Like the head was higher than me, not by a substantial margin, but I was thinking like six inches maybe. And that general area. So I know it was definitely bigger than six foot. And the head was, you know, pretty large. And the one thing that really stood out to me was the white teeth. And it's had these bright yellow eyes, you know? I'll never forget the eyes on that thing because they were just like, it looked like somebody painted like bright yellow eyes on it.

8:18And then it just kind of ducked back in. And I'm at this point, even though like I think half of my mind's in stolen oil. And the other half I could feel my left foot twitching. Even though, but there was still a part of me thinking this is just some idiot. So now I'm talking, I'm discussing it with my brother. And he's like, dude, I'm telling you, I've seen the whole thing, you know? There's no way it was walking naturally. There's no way like that's a guy in a costume. So long story short, a few minutes went by, but my brother had thrown something at that tree. Now I thought it was either a pine cone or a rock. It was something like that. And it landed to the right of the tree, but it made the thing come out. And it came out on an angle to us. So it was like belining towards that clearing. I told you about, but keeping us on its side. So we started walking with it, you know? We just, because we just wanted to not towards it, just parallel.

9:20Because we just wanted to see it before we couldn't see it anymore. And all the time that I was doing it, it was just that deep, growling sound. I'll never forget. And we had pressed the canaryos and conicors, excuse me, conicorsos growing up. And this growl was even scarier than what they can do. And I'm looking at this thing and I'm like, it has like the dog. This is the part that really trip me out. The bottom part of the leg. So from what we would call an e-cap to the foot was like that backwards dog park. But the thigh looked more human-ish. Like, you know, like you see soccer players, like it is leg. It's like a soccer player's leg. Like that type of muscle tone on top, which was like a human. Like it literally looked like somebody put it together like an elab or something.

10:20Like, yeah, we'll put this here. Or we'll put this here. And you know, that really stood out that backward dog like thing, man. Just it really freaked me out. Because again, I never heard of anything remotely close to this. And so again, yeah, the whole time it's just growling and mean mugging us out. And then it eventually disappeared into that tree line. And the only other we start we're like arguing about it. And because I'm still saying like an idiot, I look back on it now. And I must have sounded so stupid, but I'm still telling him it's a guy in a costume. And my brother's telling me what an idiot I am. That I just saw something on the end of the aisle and we're going back and forth. And we never saw it again. But it did start shaking trees. Strip trees a little bit. And I think that was just kind of like a shoe thing, you know. So when my brother saw that, he was like, we're out. Let's go. And we laughed.

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12:28Your path to pharmacy can be closer than you think. West Coast University's hybrid doctor of pharmacy program can be completed in as little as 33 months and no bachelor's degree is required to apply. If you've started pharmacy coursework elsewhere, WCU may accept eligible transfer credits to help students keep moving forward. Learn online, train hands on at our Center for Graduate Studies in Los Angeles and prepare for real world pharmacy practice. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. I became enamored with this subject like I had to I just I thought about it all the time. And that makes you want to talk about it. And I made that mistake. I started trying to tell people like, dude, you're never going to believe what happened to me and my brother and you know, you could tell. I think I told you, Shane, like these are people that know you're not a liar, but. And they want to believe you, but you could just see it in their eyes.

13:30There's just something about the story that they're not going to let that. You know, be real and I got to be honest. If it was, you know, if it was vice versa, I probably wouldn't believe the either, you know, because like I said, no one in my circle that I knew of even talked about that kind of stuff. Like it would have been hard enough if we saw a big foot that day to tell people never mind this freaking thing, you know. And the internet was at its infancy back in this time, you know, there was nothing on this subject. I never even heard the term dog man or anything. I tried to get my brother to go back as it did rain for a couple days after we left. And I figured maybe there'd be tracks, but I couldn't get him to go for like a month. He just didn't want to go. And yeah, we did go back a bunch of times and not just that state park, the ones to the south of it too, but we never ever, ever saw anything or heard anything again, ever

14:33like that was the one and only time, you know. Now, I don't think you said, but you guys were quite a ways off the trail into the woods, right? Like you guys, we used to go between a minimum of a mile and a half and like a maximum of two and a half miles off the trail. He wanted to be away from everybody. Now okay, so I'm that big hiker and I'm not going, you know, that's not some, is that kind of frowned upon or is that just, I don't think we're supposed to do it. The reason he started doing it was he was, he was joining the Marines that next year. And I think he, you know, he wanted to be through that like survivor crap, you know, because I think when he went by himself, because he would tell me that he was like one time or two times like five miles off the trail by himself, you know.

15:34So I think when I went with him, he didn't do it as dramatically, but I think we're far enough. I think where people wouldn't see you, you know. So, so obviously whatever this thing is, it's not expecting you guys probably even to be out there. Yeah, we've, that thing probably crafted as much as I did, yeah, for sure. Holy so. Now, so you're out there with the gun, but you never thought of using it because you thought it was a dude, is that what, is that what I'm getting? Yes. Yes. And honestly, this is going to sound even more stupid. I'm more I talk to you probably going to look at this guy as an idiot, but I actually love dogs. I don't think I could have shot it. You know what I mean? Like I, we grew up breeding dogs and keeping dogs. And to me, it was just a dog on two feet. I don't think I could have shot. And I mean, obviously if it's trying to kill me, I don't, not that I, I don't even know what that would have done to it, but because it was definitely, you know, six and a half, I mean, six inches taller than me, like so six foot six and probably it was over 200

16:40pounds. It had to be because the legs and chest were thick. The long, the arms were long and skinny, but the legs, the not so much the bottom part, that top thigh part was like it looked like it did leg curls its whole life. And the chest was very thick. So now did you notice the, the other, the front paws are the front legs? Like what a day. No, I never saw the hands, but my brother did. My brother did see the hands. I never saw the hands. I was, you know, that was another thing I didn't tell you that I, I was fixated on how black it was. I could not believe it. It almost looked like a lake. It was, it was nighttime and everything else was daytime. Does that even make sense? But to answer your question, he did see and he said it looked like, um, what did he call it? He said, it looked like you'd take a raccoon hand and stretch the fingers out and put nails on. And this is what he said. He said he saw it wrapped around one of the trees and he got a good look at it.

17:42Now, I didn't notice that. I think because I was so enamored with those eyes, I was looking up there. Just think we'll come back out, you know. And see, that's what a lot of people say when they see these creatures is number one, they're blacker than black. If, and, and, you know, if people can even understand what that means, but, but I mean, if you've seen, for instance, like, if you've seen like a shadow figure that gets caught on, that's what it looks like. A shadow figure. Yeah. Yeah. A shadow figure gets caught in the dark. It stands out even on camera because it's darker than the, yes, than the dark. 100%. Yeah. If you put one of these and daylight next to a black bear, you'd know what black was. You know what I mean? Because it's, there's black bear in our area. And I've seen them in my lifetime, maybe five, six of them. And they are not even close in blackness to these things. And in the hands, a lot of people describe it looks like raccoon hands and get stretched

18:43out with long nails. That's what you said, yeah, I didn't understand what he meant by that. A lot of people say that. Well, you see, you brought up bears. So you, at my time of getting reports and talking to eyewitnesses, it seems like you have gotten some of the best time to really look at, at this thing. Okay. I don't know if it's 10 seconds, 20 seconds, whatever. It was probably more like 10. Okay. That's a long time. And it felt like, it felt like 10 minutes. But, yeah. But you can say without a shadow of a doubt that wasn't some black bear walking out and looking at you. And then, I mean, you said that about the time because my brother referenced, there was a comedian that did a joke. Like years later, and he goes, yo, it's like our encounter.

19:45And basically, the gist of the joke was like, he got the guy eight shrooms or something. And he said, he, he listened to his whole CD collection and mode that one o'clock and mode the lawn. He came back. It was 110. It was, he said it was like that. I was like, you're right. Yeah. Because I think it felt like we did have a huge conversation in that, that window, but we really didn't. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Now, did the, in the other thing that is crazy is people do mention how white the, the teeth, but do you, but I wonder are they, do they see that white because they're creatures of that black? That's a great point. I wondered that forever because I said, did you, I kept saying it? Did you see his teeth, you see how white they are? And I remember even he was like, yeah, that was weird. Like, you know, they don't want any brush in their teeth out here. They look, they definitely looked like perfect teeth. And then the teeth in the eyes were like blinding almost.

20:46So, so what point then was it later on in life that you kind of came across then what this thing that you saw actually was? Well, glad you asked me. So I had been looking around on a Saturday night and I found the BFRO website and I started looking in Jersey and I went back, I forget how far I honestly I'd be making it up if I told you how far like the site went at that time. I can't remember, but I was digging into Jersey hard. And then I saw in 2000, it was either 2011 or 2012. It was a guy, a doctor walking with his friend. In the daylight, again, probably like from where we were as far as the crow flies 10 miles and he saw one. And in that article, the term dog man was in there and that was the first time I had heard that. And I remember I couldn't wait to call him. I called my brother later and left him a message like, I know what that thing was that

21:51we saw. You know, when he called me back, I couldn't wait to tell him like, it's a dog man. That's what they call them. So that was that day. So literally, you know, 10 years later, we didn't 10, 11 years later, we knew what to call it. We called the thing, you know, that thing. Stop wasting your nights on a mattress that doesn't get you. Experience the most comfortable mattress in the world. The sleep number smart bed at the touch of a button. You can personalize your comfort, choose firmer or softer, adjust cooler to warmer. And right now, save up to $2,500 during our massive Labor Day event. Hurry into your local sleep number store today because we have your number. When she said I don't dance now, I make money moves. That was a mission statement for our whole new generation. Respect, but that's not the amount rush more.

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23:56was this a werewolf or not? Oh, yeah, because he started calling it that because one of his friends said, oh, you see no werewolf. And I immediately sounded dumb to me because I'm thinking like there was nothing about that thing that looked like a guy. You know, I guess how would I know, right? But I don't know. To me, it just can look a wild animal, but who knows? I don't know anything. You know, yeah. What's the feeling? What's funny, like in the moment, your mind's convincing you that, oh, it's got to be a guy in a suit. Yeah. And then when you look back on it, you're like, it's not a purr. Then you look back on it's like, well, it's not a purr. It's not a person that turned into you know. Even though you know it can't be a person, you really wish it was. Because it's so much neater in a box to say, oh, I saw a jerk off in a costume and just never think about it again. You know, but that was no guy unfortunately, which it was.

24:59Now, as the years have gone, have you been able to track down any other than the doctor, anybody else in the region? I find, I think I told you the brother that I had the encounter with, he passed away in 2015. And then it was a couple of years after he passed, I had found a guy that was researching the topic of cryptids in New Jersey just in general. Now when I met this man, he was in his 80s and I met him at a local park over here and he just wanted to hear what I saw and I saw I told him. And he said that he had been taking verbal. What you're doing basically a verbally and then he had a note. He showed me his notebook. He had a big, thick notebook. And he said he was doing it since the 70s in that area. And he said that he, I can't remember how he said he came up with this theory, but he had a theory that these things, I guess, meaning big foot and dog.

26:03And then we're coming from upstate New York, cutting through Jersey on its way into Pennsylvania in that northwest corner of the state up there in that park actually. So he felt like I guess when they're in this area, they're there for like a week or two and then they continue their migration. And I guess he was saying that because, excuse me, all his encounters were within like a three month stretch and then there'd be nothing, you know? I think that's pretty much how he came to it. It had to be more to it than that, but. So he wasn't easy there. People were either seeing them coming or going is basically that or like they would see him in that area and then they would see him against the following year around that same time, that kind of thing. And did he have any more insight on like people seeing the dog and creature or did he not get into that?

27:05No, he did. Yeah, he said that he had a few, most of it was Sasquatch, but he did say he did have a few people here in there telling about the dog. Yeah, I don't think they're from what I gather and like, you know, now that I've been looking at this for so many years, I don't think Jersey is like a hotbed for that. I think where you are, I think, is infested. And I think East Texas is probably infested, probably Pennsylvania, Michigan. I think there's a few areas where there's going to be a lot more. I think here it's like real sporadic. I don't think you can make a living here, find it. I know, I can be honest with you. I don't think you should try to make a living finding. It's a good point to be me. It wouldn't be me, but I don't think they're here a lot, you know what I mean? Well, speaking of that, did you, like, did you feel in danger at all? No, I never crossed my mind. That was the other thing. I never, never felt worried. And one of my good friends said, that's because you live, you grew up a crazy ass dog.

28:10He told me, and maybe that's it. I don't know, but no, I never felt like it was going to, like, to me, it wasn't threatening us. It was kind of just being like, stay there. Like don't come over here, you know, type of thing. That's the impression I got. Like if you stay there, I'll be over here, ground it you, and then I'm out of here. And don't follow me kind of thing, you know? Wow. I think we would have went up to it. It would have been better. So. Yeah, I don't, I, I don't think it's probably a good idea to go and engage. It's not a good idea to go up to a bear, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's not, it's not a good idea to go engage and have to people you see walking down the street. Let, let alone, you know, somebody, um, well, I, I certainly, like I said before, I certainly hope that people hear this and understand like where the park is that it's high point,

29:10it's high point, high point, say park. And the county is Sussex County and there's, um, there's a couple real big parks that do you got stokes? You got Jenny Jump Forest? Uh, well, Wattia State Park. And there's another one too. I can't remember that other one, but yeah, there's a couple big ones up there, man. Well, I got to think that there's other people that have had experiences that just didn't number one know who to report it to or or I bet. Yeah. Like you guys didn't know what they saw. It just doesn't make any sense to, um, to see a, a wall for a dog on a time, on a time legs. I think I told you right, like when I gave up on telling people myself, you know, if I was ever anywhere and I heard somebody telling like a fishing or hunting story, I'd be like, Hey, man, you ever see anything weird? Yeah. Yeah, and they'd be like, what do you mean? But I forgot it because I figured if they knew, you know, if they knew what I meant,

30:14they would know what I meant. If you know what I mean, so yeah, they ain't forget it, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, and it's only natural. I mean, those are the people you want to ask because they're out most hunters and fishermen are out in the woods and in those places a lot more than people hiking, you know? Yeah. So I hope, I hope people see this and, uh, yeah, and I gotta give you credit to, you know, Shane, for you to do this for people, you know, give them, uh, give them a place where they can talk to somebody that doesn't, you know, call them a liar. I think that's, it's, uh, it's really good to get mad because there's not a lot of places like that, you know, and, and it does suck when you're, when you really did see something and you want people to know it, you know, and they just can't, you know, but that is what it is, you know? No, I mean, I, it goes, it goes all the way back to the judge, you know, having his, his experience when we were kids and him not being able to talk about what he actually

31:15saw for 30 some years. Yeah, that's crazy. And it was just, it's similar to, you know, once the light goes on, like, you know, you guys had that light go on where he saw the doctor's report and like, that's what it, that's what it is. Yeah, I had a name. Yeah. And that's kind of what, and that's how he reacted because I remember the phone call he made to me. Dude, I know what I saw. And it's like, holy, holy, holy, holy, you got to date from a, from a Linda, from a Linda God for the job. For the job tree over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the one that wrote about them in Michigan, right? Uh, Wisconsin. Oh, Wisconsin. Wisconsin. The beast, the beast of Bray Road. That's right. That's right. But now, and that's been our mission is to give a, to give a place for people to come and share because the only way other people are going to, I mean, no one reason you're sharing is because you're hearing other people share, you know, and, and hopefully other people will come forward because they heard you and especially, especially from your area.

32:21So, so I appreciate you reaching out and I appreciate you coming on. I'm going to go on to those guys with the Jersey Devil. Everyone will link up again. Cross it over with the dogman up here. Oh, he's good. Listen, don't challenge us. Get the challenge. Those guys, those guys, they're going to step and step and Michael be there two seconds. We were in the car. That's why I'm asking. You ready? Yeah. You ready to go. But that would be, but that would be cool though. They would be the guys to take back out there to that spot. Yeah. And, uh, and check it out. So maybe, they know it's true. So it'll be fun to have them. Maybe that's the collab we didn't know we needed right there. We're taking Jersey to my store right now. Uh, well, Vity, thank you so much for, uh, for sharing this. Yeah, that's interesting. So, I hope that's your brother. I hope it reaches the people it needs to reach for sure. Thank you, and I wish you all the best now. I appreciate that. Appreciate that. Don't you wish everything was more rewarding? With Rakuten, almost everything is. You can earn cash back on those new shoes you've been wanting.

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34:23resist cracking, and help block moisture. Chosen in over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms, Party Backer Board, what the best build on. Shop now at participating Home Depot, Lowe's, and floor into core stores. For more information, visit JamesHearty.com slash Hearty Backer. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of The From the Shadows Podcast. Until next time, never shy away from the darkness or what may be lurking in the shadows. We are out. Go to Only Knows were tidying ourselves. Go to Only Knows were tidying ourselves.

35:28Go to Only Knows were tidying ourselves. Go to Only Knows were tidying ourselves.