Do Rewards Work? — The Million Dollar Nancy Guthrie Question

0:00Hey, everyone. Welcome to Crimly Obsessed. I'm Ann Emerson and there's now a $1 million reward for information about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. That is the today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie's 84-year-old mother. Savannah shared this emotional message on Instagram this week. We need to know where she is. We need her to come home. For that reason, we are offering a family reward of up to $1 million. If you've been waiting and you haven't been sure, let this be your sign. To please come forward, tell what you know and help us bring our beloved mom home. It's now day 25 since Nancy was last seen at her home in Tucson, Arizona and her family is not backing down. I'm joined by John Yanarelli. He's a retired FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge for the state of Arizona and he knows that place like the back of his

1:00hand. He's going to talk to us about how a million dollars could make a difference in this investigation. Let's get into it. I want to talk about this million dollar reward that we've just heard about from Savannah Guthrie. What is your first take on this when you heard that this was going up to a million dollars? Well, when we hear a million dollars and certainly this is money that the family has come up with, they want to generate leads. At this point, there's been what 30,000 leads estimated, but a lot of those leads are not really viable. It's people calling up with opinions or suspicions. All the actionable leads have probably been covered. Hopefully, a million dollars will spur someone to come forward. As I've said from the beginning, somebody knows who this person is. That person needs to pick up the phone and call law enforcement. Savannah Guthrie's last social media post that she did announcing the million dollar reward. Is there anything in the language

2:04of how she's expressing like looking for her mom, speaking directly to someone who might have taken or someone who may know something about the person? Is there anything that we should be reading in between the lines in this like there could be a bit of a vacuum as far as information coming out? I think Savannah's done a masterful job of keeping this not only in the public eye, but humanizing the case. It's easy to look at a situation like this from a distance and not personalize it. Here, we all are well acquainted with their mom and the emotional attachment between children and their mother and they've been able to communicate that. Hopefully, have effect. If not in the person responsible for this event, someone else close to it. Someone who knows something and be moved to why he's the pain of the children to be able to bring their mother home. I am hoping they are going to come and find out new information with this million dollars. You know, one other thing, there's $500,000 that she and I really want to

3:07mention, this $500,000 that Savannah has now and her family towards Nickmick, the National Center for Missine Exploited Children. Let's listen to what Savannah had to say about that donation. We know there are millions of families that have suffered with this kind of uncertainty. And for that reason today, we also are donating $500,000 to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for their work in helping families who are coping with loss and actively looking for those who are lost. I think that is, you know, in the back of many of our minds, as we've been listening to this heartbreaking, how many people are still missing out there, right? What will this mean for Nickmick, do you think? It certainly not only helps financially with the resources that are out there, but it brings attention to the cause. There's a lot of missing

4:09people in the world, not so away from kidnapping, although some are, some are that have gone missing, just runaways, et cetera, or been taken by other people, not so away from kidnapping, but went willingly, yet they have families who are looking for them. The families are concerned. They want resolution, they want their families reunited. The attention does good things to bring it to the public's focus. You know, I was just reading, I was looking in some past reports and basically the difference between, tell me what the difference is, if you can, like between a $1,000 award or a $10,000 award and a million dollar award in your in your mind. How does, what does that look like to the investigation on the ground? A million dollar reward is not common at all. Their rare occurrence, whereas tip lines and various rewards are commonplace and law enforcement. And generally, they'll motivate somebody for a lower level crime, the $1,000, $2,000,

5:12they will contact the authorities and drop a dime of what they know. The million dollars is really to push. It also provides the impetus for people, the want to be investigators or others out there to go out and look for possible clues themselves. I'm not talking about physically searching, but if they have information, they're digging, they've come up with something. Now, there's incentive for them to work it and turn it over to law enforcement as well. One of the takeaways with that kind of amount of money is that, is it that it gives you better leads or doesn't just generate more leads? Well, it's certainly going to generate more leads and not all the leads are going to be good. There's going to be people looking to chase that money and perhaps profit as we saw in the beginning with these false ransom reports, people demanding crypto. But there may be somebody who's on the edge, thinks they know who the person is, doesn't want to get involved, doesn't want to cast aspersions, yet a million dollars could be a huge motivator

6:16to take that next step. And again, law enforcement will check it out. If it turns out to be nothing, so be it. But it could be that one tip that breaks this case. So it is, it is a possibility that it could move the needle basically. That's what we're looking at. Absolutely. With a million dollars on the line, if there's somebody sitting on the fence who thinks they have information, but doesn't want to get involved, doesn't want to appear stupid, that million dollars could be a huge motivator to get that person to take the next step and call the FBI. Okay, so tell me what that looks like with the FBI. What are the stipulations? Because Savannah was very clear in her social media post that she was going to be following those guidelines. So the guidelines are really pretty straightforward. You have to have meaningful information and be willing to bring it forward. You can't just piecemeal it out. You have to cooperate. Likewise, the information has to be singular in nature. If you're providing something that

7:1820 other people are providing, then you're looking at a reward being split. Hopefully, though, there's an individual that's got enough information that can move law enforcement onto the next step. And then finally, you've got to be willing to be verified. They're not going to pay money out anonymously to someone. It could be the very criminal seeking information as well, and then looking to run off with the money. It doesn't mean your identity is going to be exposed. That can be kept confidential, but you have to work with law enforcement and cooperate. Well, John, I mean, is it if she's alive or dead? Is it a is it recovery even or just information that would bring us to Nancy? The goal here is obviously to recover Nancy got to be alive. Regardless, any tip or information would probably be acceptable for the reward. If it we find her and likewise, the people responsible need to be held accountable and brought to justice.

8:18All of that information is what the FBI is looking for and the Guthrie family can fund with this reward. Do you worry about it getting in the way of law enforcement, like internet slews or armchair detectives deciding, okay, well, I'm going to Tucson. I'm going to get the million dollars. This is going to be my my investigation now. There's always been those issues whenever law enforcement is working cases. We've had that in a variety of situations over time. Yet the parameters are pretty queer. You're not entering a crime scene that's being protected such as the residents. Likewise, when the FBI or the Sheriff's Department goes out, say they decide to affect the search, they're going to set up a perimeter on that. No one's entering it. But if there's somebody out there that fancies themselves as being able to work these cases, say a PI or somebody like that, they may very well talk to somebody that can provide information that law enforcement wasn't even aware of. So it could hinder, but with the parameters, the cases and the integrity of the

9:23cases kept safe, it could also leverage and help. So it's not yeah. So, you know, as you hear Savannah make this plea to help bring her mother home and we're 25 days out. At what point do you believe, you know, the chances of Nancy got three being brought home safely are diminished and it does sound like Savannah's dealing with that reality as well. I don't think there's any reason to assume the worst because what's the incentive to do that? We work this case with urgency at the way I was involved in past cases. Current FBI and law enforcement from the Sheriff's Department are doing the same today. If we operate under a brief, look, we're looking to find Nancy got three, the chips will four or they may, but not going to jump to the conclusion was so much time has passed. We've seen this before in other cases such as Elizabeth Smart granted a younger individual,

10:25but she was going for seven months before she was recovered. So anything can happen. Can you talk to me a little bit about what it looks like on the ground so we can see it through your eyes as you're watching it. You're in Scottsdale. Now, what does the FBI operations look like for for such a massive case like this? Well, formally back when I was with the FBI case like this, you'd have a massive surge of individuals bringing in resources not just from the state of Arizona, but surrounding FBI offices from California and elsewhere. People have come in from Washington to bring resources. The job there is to tackle the various leads that are in the investigation and cover them as quickly as possible. If you've got a thousand reads, you want as many people addressing those leads and they're also triaged. The FBI has an elaborate system of coordinating a lot of information. When you look at 9-11, where literally hundreds of thousands of tips came in after the attacks, every one of those was covered by an FBI agent at some

11:28point. As things get resolved and reads are covered, the investigation will die down a little bit only in the resources. If they're not necessary, people are going to be sent back to regular duties because crime goes on. But there's always enough people in place to cover everything immediately. And if more tips start rolling in, they will surge the resources once again to make sure they're addressing the need of the investigation. There's been a lot of chatter about the cooperation between state and or in county and federal, really, between the sheriff's office and the FBI on this particular case. And I think the question I have for you is the mixed messages that we're getting out there in the world. We hear that media reports are hearing from federal law enforcement. Things are going one way and then we end up getting a statement on X or we see something coming out from Pima County Sheriff saying, no, no, we're not doing that right now. No, that's not

12:31happening right now. Do you feel like they're cooperating the way you'd want it to be working? I would hope there's full cooperation. I will tell you you see a lot of television about the distrust or the angst between law enforcement agencies. The reality is everybody works on the ground level very well. I've worked with multiple law enforcement agencies throughout my career and we've always enjoyed the camaraderie because we're leveraging the resources for one another. In this particular case, I think it's really important that this investigation speak as one voice, not just for the public, but also for the sake of family. You want to show the continuity. At the end of the day, this is the sheriff's department's investigation day. Ask the FBI to come in and assist, but everything is being directed and done on a local level. So if the sheriff chooses to speak, it's his investigation to talk about it. Well, I know and I was asking about that too because

13:32I saw of course, you know, the the federal law enforcement agent C is brought in to assist. As you said, I do remember language that they were kind of joining forces that they were doing this jointly. Do you remember hearing that kind of language that it was more jointly and is that different from assisting the sheriff? Well, all of this is decided well in advance of incidents like this. They have an MOU, which is a memorandum of understanding that in particular instances, who's going to come and insist and what will the role be here with the situation the sheriff's department was initially the primary agency. The FBI brings an awful lot to the table. First of all, just the resources alone and the manpower that we discussed. Likewise, there's technical resources part of being able to get the video from the surveillance cameras, etc. That's because of the technology and the technological advantage. The FBI can bring to the table the leverage disinvestigation. At the end of the day, regardless of what we may hear, everybody has the same goal.

14:38It's the recovery, bringing Nancy Gaffrey home. Well, John, I mean, like they're also looking at some long. We don't know how long it's going to take for the DNA to come back, do we? Well, it's been a complicated DNA situation because we have heard reports through the sheriff's office that it was mixed DNA, which means it could be from multiple people. Not now. So we people involved this incident, but just people that have been in the residence. Think of how many people come into your house at any given time. Everyone is leaving DNA behind. They've already looked at the code of system and not found any recordings of persons that had prior criminal history. Now it's incumbent to take all that DNA separated out and look at the private sector entities, the ancestry, the 23 and me and see if there's any matches. Not necessarily with the person once again that was in the house, but in the co bar case involving the individual from the idol school massacre of the four students, it was the same thing. They found DNA of a relative that matched DNA

15:40found at the crime scene. And from there, they were able to ascertain who the subject was. Hopefully they'll get lucky in this case and be able to do the same. It was incredible to see that go down with co burger. You're absolutely right. And we've been discussing it on the show as well. One of the things that they were discussing was the the glove, the black glove that was found like two miles away. And the problem I have with that is I don't understand why they're looking at a glove that's two miles away unless they know something that we don't know about that glove. I think it actually says something different. I think what it says is they're not leaving anything the chance. We have the images on the camera that look like the same kind of glove that was found. It's probably not a terribly uncommon type of glove. And if you go looking through the desert, you're going to find all sorts of things. There's always being items picked up. But there's always a chance that it will relate back to something. So it's a good example of how no

16:40stone is left unturned. Hopefully something will positive will come out of it. Hopefully some of the DNA found at the home will present something positive as well. But until this case is resolved, nothing's being counted out. What do you think the next step is for them right now? They are continuing to look for any video evidence. There are not a lot of cameras as supposed to what you might get in a more urban area. But there's always a chance of video evidence, always a chance of a license plate capture or even the image of a vehicle. All of that has to be carefully reviewed. And it takes time. You can't just use an algorithm and AI. Somebody's actually looking at it as well. In addition to that, you might go back and talk to people again now that more information has come out. I could speak to a witness one day. Their memory may be jarred. And if I go back to them and talk to them later on. So they'll be a re-interviewing of witnesses. And then of course, with that million dollar reward, rest assured, there'll be new reads that are

17:41all going to have to be covered. Agents are going to have to interview. Locations are going to have to be visited. Hopefully it's all going to come to a culmination to solve this investigation. John, did they was Savannah Guthrie's family in your opinion? Were they working with the FBI when they made this announcement? Everyone wants to work together because they all have the same common goal. Now, of course, the desire to release and offer a sexual reward, that's got to be made by the family. That's not something that the government can direct people to do. We never tell people what to do with money or not to do because there's upsides and there's downsides. We've talked about them. But certainly they have been in communications with the law enforcement entities when they decided to make this announcement. I did remember. I did wanted to ask you about this. There was some chatter about money being moved in one of the Bitcoin accounts. Did you remember hearing about that a while back that at one point there was some money getting moved in and out?

18:43There was some talk about a small amount of money being moved in and out. A lot of reasons for that. It could be simply just checking to make sure that the account is accessible and operable. It could be an account that somebody who was looking to profit from this and was checking to see if they could get anything as well. But the reality is the numbers were so insignificant. It's not likely going to be something that's going to lead us to death. It could involve somebody else who's just as criminal intent. And sadly, in cases like this, there are those people out there that look to take advantage of someone else's misery and profit from it. We've already seen arrests of one individual in California that was making allegations and demanding a ransom. There may be others as well that have not been publicized. But there is that criminal element that will always look to come out and profit from a tragedy. Were any of the ransom notes legit?

19:44Was there anything legit in any of the ransom notes in your opinion? I think if there had been anything that was actionable, we would not be where we are today, unfortunately. So it's just yet to be seen. But you never know what information law enforcement has that they're holding back. And when they hold back information, it's for good reason. They don't want to scare off the bad guys. Likewise, they want to make sure that they can work without the media or others interrupting what they're doing. So there's always the possibility, but nothing that's been reported widely. What type of information should the public report if they feel like they have something to contribute? I think one of the easiest things in this case is when you look at the build of the individual, the ability to pull something like this off, somebody may say, Hey, you know what? I know somebody. He's a little odd or he's he fits the same sort of build. I recognize that backpack, those clothings. I've seen that before, especially related

20:45to this individual. And then finally, this is a fairly significant event. It's getting worldwide attention. Whoever did this is probably not acting normal right now. They probably a little out of step under usual behavior. And if they if the public notices, well, this kind of fits the description of the person and he's a little out of step, maybe that's a good lead that you want to pick up and call on enforcement. Again, nobody's going to plunge in and arrest somebody, but it may be a good reason to knock on the door and ask a few questions and check with them. That's great. I mean, as far as the FBI coming out and making any more announcements, any more press briefings, should we be expecting anything without a major break in the case? I think there has to be something significant at this point for there to be any sort of press conference, et cetera. The million dollar reward may in fact generate that. There probably should be some sort of regular press briefing just to let the media know what's

21:52happening because in a vacuum, these stories can arise in speculation. But at this point, again, it's all a matter of what's next in the case and what weeds are going to be developed. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for your time. And we are all still hoping that there will be some kind of resolution soon. So thank you, John. It's nice to talk to you. Thank you. You too. It's great to hear from our law enforcement experts on a case like this as it drags on into the next month of investigation. How is a million dollars going to affect this case? Drop a comment below and tell me what you think. I'd love to talk about it and be sure to like, subscribe, and follow us. It can be obsessed so you don't miss an episode.