Discovering The Law

0:30Welcome to Discovering the Law. It's good to see everyone after this big year and good to be together again. Today we have a very special guest, Maureen Boyle, author and journalist of Ghost, her new book and shallow graves. My name is Lucy Rivera. This episode can be viewed at www.bienanmedia.org and at www.discoveringthelaw.com. Maureen, welcome. Welcome. Oh, thank you so much for having me. We appreciate you being here and despite circumstances. Yes. Please tell us a little bit about your book. Who is your target audience on your first book, shallow graves.

1:31Shallow graves, the target audience is everyone. And the reason why I say that is because this is an unsolved serial killing case in Massachusetts. It happened in 1988. The killer is still out there or has not been identified. He and its belief to be a he can be anywhere in the state. I believe that someone out there knows who he is and for whatever reason they're afraid to come forward. It's interesting indicating it's a male. What are the general characteristics of a serial killer? Generally, you know, there's two types of serial killers. There's something called a organized serial killer and a disorganized serial killer. A disorganized serial killer can become an organized serial killer. A disorganized one who is someone who will just attack and kill the individual and

2:36leave their victim in the kill spot. An organized killer is a little bit more organized, if you will, and plans and the victim is brought to maybe some place else other than where the person was killed. The New Bedford Highway serial killer could be a combination of both based on when the victims were killed and where they were found. Speaking of the psychological profile in general, what would be the general characteristics of a serial killer? Very often, particularly with a disorganized killer, they have traumatized childhood. There's some bed wetting might be involved, physical abuse, sexual abuse, that type of thing. That said, not everyone who has a traumatized childhood becomes

3:36serial killer. And you can't tell who a serial killer is just by looking at them. You look at considering Ted Bundy, who was a very handsome young man and was a notorious serial killer killed people throughout the country. Psychologically, referring to this individual, is there a specific common denominator such as mental illness? I personally think that there is some type of mental illness because only someone who has a problem would be killing so many people. But there are some characteristics of either they're controlling or they want to control their lives. Interesting. Now, we're speaking mostly men. Have there ever been women serial killers? Yeah, there have. There's been a number of female serial killers over the years throughout

4:39history. Most of the female serial killers that I've looked up, they've been nurses who have killed patients or individuals who have poisoned people for money. Interesting. What is your opinion as to the roots of that beginning? There's been some studies that this type of behavior, they start in childhood. Not that they're a killer at childhood, but in some cases they've been able to determine that serial killers. Some serial killers have killed small animals. There's been a pattern of odd behavior and disturbing behavior at a young age. So it's kind of scary. It's very scary topic, but it apparently it's a phenomenon that happens. And it's not just in the

5:43United States. We hear about it more here in the United States primarily because of the news outlets and crime TV and books and things like that. But there's been serial killers throughout history and throughout the world. Scary and interesting. Now, focusing on shallow graves and your first book, tell us a little bit about it. It's based on a series of killings in 1988 in New Bedford. New Bedford, as you know, is the largest fishing port in the country. It's on the south coast of Massachusetts. Between roughly March of 1988 in September of 1988, 11 women who are all drug addicted went missing from the city. And slowly their bodies began being found along the highways at Circle New Bedford. If you think of New Bedford, think of Adona, and you think of New Bedford as the

6:51community right in the center. And all of the highways at Circle New Bedford, that's where the bodies were found. They were found just outside inside the tree line and the brush line on the highways. On 195, 140, and 188. And they were found by accident too. Tell us a little bit going a little bit more into that, like the victims specifically describe them, like the demographic where they, I heard you said they're addicted to drugs. Tell us more about it. Most all of the victims were addicted to drugs, primarily heroin. They were all about one more mothers. They came from fairly close families, and that's why some of them were reported missing very, very quickly. Even though they were addicted and they weren't living with their parents, but because they were so close to their families, people knew when they were gone with a couple

7:56of exceptions. They, a few of the women had criminal records for prostitution, but not all of them. The primary linkage of all the victims, if you will, is the drug addiction. How do you, what is your sense as to how this individual found the women or targeted at this specific 11 women? My guess is either he offered them a ride on the street. Excuse me, he may have been at a bar where they may have been. For whatever reason, he may have lured them into a vehicle and strangled them. It's believed that all of them were strangled. The medical examiner was able to determine two of the cases that the victims were strangled, but the other remains were, they couldn't determine cause of death with the other sort of victims. In your job as a journalist, you detected that the modus operandi was strangulation,

9:02and then how did the serial killer dispose of the bodies? This is really interesting and you will never drive along a highway quite the same ever again. All of the bodies, it's believed that the killer transported the bodies to the highway and pulled along the side of the road and picked them up, threw them over the shoulder, walked into the brush and then just flipped them onto the side of the road. And they were deep enough where if you're driving by, you wouldn't see them. However, if you had pulled over and walked into the brush a little bit, you would. And that's how a couple of the bodies were found. The first and second victims were found by people who pulled over because they needed to, there were no bathrooms around, put it that way, put it discreetly,

10:07and they pulled over, walked into the brush and found a body. So people's a setting time line of this murders. When did this take place? What kind of technology was out there? There was no technology out there. I mean, there was technology, but not like we would see it today. My guess is that if this happened today, the case would have been solved. In 1988, the cell phone technology was very, very different. Not a lot of people had cell phones. A lot of the cell phones were in a car or police officers had them. And the cell phones at that time were very, very bulky. And the cell phones were not taking photos or video or anything like that. And even the use of DNA that was still in its infancy in terms of law enforcement. To use at that time to obtain

11:09usable DNA in a case, it needed a really large, large sample. And part of the sample would be destroyed in the testing. So there wasn't touch DNA. All of everything that we take for granted today really wasn't just a pipe dream then for law enforcement. Absolutely. It's the challenge. Yeah. Is the timeline 1988 through what would work us through the timeline of this case? At the timeline with the victims, victims were missing roughly March of 1988 to September of 1988. But they were found between July of 1988 and April of 1989. Some of them were found by accident, by people who stopped along the highway, a couple of cases. It was by a cleanup crew. And in one case, it was children playing along an 88 going towards

12:13horse neck beach in Westport. And then in a number of cases, a search dog that was called in, found the other victims. It's interesting. You're referring to this area specifically. What is your opinion or your intuition as to the perpetrator? Do you believe this individual lived in that area or how is that his area of choice for disposing of his bodies? I firmly believe that the individual is from that area and knows that area. And I found the interesting that none of the victims were found in New Bedford, which is odd. What that means, I'm not quite sure. There are two victims that still have not been found. And those two victims had ties to law enforcement. In one of the cases, the victim was the daughter of a retired

13:14New Bedford cop and another victim. It was the youngest victim. She was 19 years old. Her mother was engaged to a Dartmouth police officer. And those are the only two who haven't been found. Particularly this serial killer. To fit the profile of a serial killer, there is a connection as to the victims, all being drug addiction, for example. Yeah, that's what it seems to be. However, the last two women whose bodies have not been found did not suffer. They did. But the reason why I bring up that the last two also, they had ties to law enforcement is people, many people will say, well, if these were relatives, if these women were related to police officers, the killer would be found in two of them were. And their colleagues in law enforcement really did want to find the killer. It's a scary psychology. But if you could tie up

14:22the thinking of this individual, does he want to get caught? Is this why he disposes the victims? Somewhat obviously, not really hiding them, but evidently. But in some ways, he is hiding them, but it is also still kind of in plain sight. And it is, why do you say that? Because it's right off the highway, but yet it's not. It's hidden, but not all that hidden. That's scary. And that's why I say, you will never drive along highways the same way again, because to this day, I still, some driving, I'm looking along the side of the highways to see what is there. If there's anything there that we're missing. Now, I know you indicated they were all strangled. Yes, it's believed all of them were strangled. Is there a sense as to whether this man knew the victims or how did they, he selected them?

15:28Maybe they knew each other, I don't know. If there was a connection, or is there, what's a little bit of the profile of this individual? That's a really good question. Now, New Bedford is a very, very close-knit community. And there are some people who believe that the victims, if they didn't know the killer well, the victims may have been acquainted with the killer. I'm interesting. Now, what motivates you to write shallow grapes? During, at that time, I covered this story as a reporter at the Standard Times of New Bedford. And I had always, in the back of my mind, thought, okay, I'm going to do a book on this. But I was waiting for the killer to be found. And then one year passed, and then another year, and then 10 years, and 15 years, then 20 years, and then 30 years. And people started forgetting

16:30about what happened. They began forgetting about the victims, you know, the general public, not their families. And some people, even in the Greater New Bedford community, they, particularly those that are younger, hadn't even heard of the case, or they misremembered things. And I really felt this was the time to write the book, and to get more attention on the case, and hopefully that will encourage someone to come forward and say, I know who the killer is, and this killer is. And even if the person is dead, at least, people will have any answer. Well, we have 10 minutes left in the show, but tell us a little bit as to what is the sense of this individual? Like, is there, is it, did the police have an idea of what this individual was like,

17:33where he lived, what, what he did? Well, what, how he interacted with society? What they had done as part of the case is they looked at dozens and dozens of suspects in the case. And it ranged from fishermen. They, people who were in the drug industry, if you will, drug dealers, men with criminal history of attacking women, men who had were convicted of rape, or suspected of rape. Those who were out on furlough from the sexual, the center for the sexually dangerous in bridge water, they looked at truck drivers, they looked at individuals from the coast guard. And when it comes to the fishermen that they were looking at, they were looking at

18:33particularly fishermen who were coming up from the south, and then when returned to the south, because they're trying to figure out why it appeared that the killer stopped in September of 88. Interesting. There's questions answered. Is there any clue us to the tying of the end to dissolve the center? Yeah, and over the years, they have, one enforcement has got, they've gone back and re-interviewed people. They have sent certain items out for testing and retesting, because technology has greatly, greatly improved since 1988. And they won't say exactly what evidence that they have, because it's still technically an open case, even though it's over 30 years old. But hopefully, one of these days, they will have that answer. And when they have that answer, then we'll know why this man picked these women, and what was that motivation, and why did he

19:37kill so many? And where are the two missing women? How can society combat this bad seeds? And that's a very good question. I've always felt that you have to pay much more attention to children who have been traumatized, children that are acting out, children that are in psychological distress, and try to get them help early, early on. Whether that would change their behavior, I don't know, but at least that's a start. Interesting. What, on a different note, what intrigued you most about this case? Well, as I was covering it, I really became obsessed with it, because I got to know the families of the victims, and they were just so, so lovely,

20:38and so pained, and at such a loss, and this was something that, you know, they were average people who were suddenly thrust into the spotlight, because there was a serial killer in all places, their hometown. Speaking of the hometown, the community, what is the reaction of the community to this case, and has the community forgotten this incident? Yeah, I wondered about that, whether people had forgotten, and whether I was in my own little bubble, surrounding myself with people who have not forgotten about it. But when the book came out, first came out, the reaction was very, very positive, and people still want to know more about what happened, and people have not forgotten, because it's a community that does not forget the victims. What are the lessons learned? The law enforcement learned a lot from this case,

21:47and one of them, a major, major lesson, was to take the report of the disappearances of adults, much more seriously, and to take the disappearance of those that are addicted much more seriously. Initially, some people in law enforcement had thought these women were just out on a binge. They're getting high, they'll show up again, and of course, they didn't. Today, law enforcement, particularly in New Bedford, if a family member comes in and says, my son, my daughter, is missing, they're addicted, they will take the report right away, and they will be on the lookout. How did this book inspire you to write your new book?

22:48No, well, and what's the name of your new book? My new book is called The Ghost, the Murder of Police Chief Greg Adams, and the hunt for his killer. With shallow graves, I was intrigued by the concept of secrets. Someone was holding the secret of who this killer is, and in The Ghost is another story of secrets, details, The Murder of Pennsylvania Police Chief by a man from New Bedford who's sort of like a low-level mobster. He killed the chief during a routine car stop and took off, and it was believed that he returned to Massachusetts, but police couldn't find him, and it took decades before they could figure out what happened, and it went back to someone holding a secret about the whereabouts of Donald

23:51Webb who was the killer, and that was a case where they knew who the killer was, but it was where is he, and in shallow graves, they know where the victims are, but not who the killer is. So shallow graves is unresolved, and ghost is that a result? That's solved. That is solved. And that was a fascinating case and story that took me from Massachusetts to Saxonburg, Pennsylvania, which is about 10 to 12-hour drive, but it's a lovely community. Well then that begs the question, what drives you to the stories, and to write two books about such gruesome activity? I'm really not sure. I just feel the need to tell stories, and because I had spent so much of my career covering crime, I appeared to be drawn to telling

24:55the stories of the victims, and the police officers, and the families, and sort of the pain of what they experienced, and let the public know what's out there. For the public right now, in front of, on your screens, you can find the book that more, more in his book, shallow graves. Thank you. And so we have four minutes left. I just wanted to ask you, talk to me a little bit about your journalist career, and your, I guess your ties to these cases, what did you, what was your role in this thing? For decades, I worked daily journalism throughout New England, covering primarily police and court cases, and I worked down in New Bedford, and I worked in Brockton. So I've got a wealth of these types of stories, and they can be kind of

26:00haunting. And now I teach at Stone Hills, teach journalism at Stone Hill College. Well, when you are ready to share with us your new book, you have a home here. Oh, we have a minute left. But I just wanted to thank everyone for watching this episode of Discovering the Law. Today's guest is Maureen Boyle, author of Ghost and shallow graves. This episode can be viewed at bnnmedia.org, and also at www.discoveringthelaw.com. My name is Lucy Rivera, and I'm very happy to be back with all of you live in the studio. We missed you, and thank you for watching.