Debbie Collier: "They Won't Let Me Go" // 638

0:00Support for Unwell comes from Uber. Uber just introduced a new feature called Women Preferences, which lets women riders request a woman driver directly in the app. It's honestly an amazing feature that gives women more control over their rides. Sometimes we all just want a ride that feels a little more comfortable and chill. So if you haven't used it yet, Uber's new Women Preferences feature is available now in the Uber app. Learn more on the Uber app. Consider lunch solved with Landofrost Premium Lunch Meat. It's the smart choice for families. It's packed with eight plus grams of protein per serving, so you can fuel your day without overspending it checkout. There's no artificial flavors or byproducts. And Landofrost has a variety of flavors that everybody in the family can enjoy. From Black Forest ham, honey smoked turkey, even hot honey ham and chicken. Shop Landofrost Premium Lunch Meat at your favorite local grocery store. Nowadays, you have certain expectations when you fly, like people napping on the airport for or flying in your pajamas.

1:03You know what you don't expect? Free drinks. But now, team mobile members get a free premium drink when they fly Delta Airlines. So just sit back, relax, and switch to team mobile today. Visit teamoble.com slash membership for details. It's better over here. Get a free premium Delta drink with eligible plan and link SkyMiles. I count 24 hours before qualifying for requirements between one or older CT life returns. What is going on true crime fans? I'm your host, Teez. And I'm your host, Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Hello, everybody. I hope you're doing well today. We have a case that has a lot of conspiracy for you guys. This is one that we've been wanting to cover for a while. But before really diving in, we didn't know if it was a great idea just because of all the conspiracy. But after diving in,

2:04I'm so glad that we're covering it because there's really two sides of the spectrum. Like you're either on one side or the other, but I feel like the one side weighs a little heavier than the other. Yeah, I agree with you. Which is why we're talking about it today. Yeah, there's a lot of theories, a lot of speculation kind of swirling around about this case because it is so mysterious. And I think a lot of people are just very confused. Very confused, but we do have a really clear timeline, which is something I appreciate about this story because there's like, we have timestamps, we have text messages, we have app messages, we have surveillance footage. Like there's a lot to pick apart, which definitely helps a lot of the confusion surrounding this case. But then it also just adds a lot more questions. Oh, without further ado. All right, guys, this is episode 638 of Going West. So let's get into it.

3:14In September of 2022, a 59 year old woman sent her daughter, a Venmo payment accompanied by a cryptic message before disappearing from a strip mall about an hour away from her Georgia home. When she was found dead, less than 24 hours later in a secluded wooded area, investigators were left with more questions than answers to her mysterious death that involved strange purchases, a complex cause of death and a fire. This is the puzzling death of Debbie Collier. They won't let me go. Deborah Marie Todd, better known as Debbie, that's what we're going to call her today, was born on September 2nd, 1963, in Onionta, Alabama. Debbie joined a large southern family, born to parents Marie and Eugene, and growing up alongside sister Sheila, Susan and Diane,

4:15and brothers Jimmy, Terry, and Bobby. After marrying a man named Joseph Beardin and welcoming two kids that's Amanda and Jeffrey, they drifted apart and they eventually divorced. She then met Steve Collier, who also had two kids. So they both had two kids and they got married in 2013 when Debbie was about 50 years old and happily blended their families together and eventually welcomed grandkids. Her son Jeffrey later described her as vibrant, strong, kind and empathetic and said that she had the ability to see the beauty in everyone and everything around her. According to her kids, her greatest joy in life was cooking for, caring for, and hosting her large extended family. She was like a real mom's mom, you know? But outside of family life, after spending her career working for a bank, Debbie transitioned into working as a realtor's assistant at the time of her death. 59-year-old Debbie was living in Athens, Georgia, which is just northeast of Atlanta.

5:15On the day she disappeared, Saturday, September 10th, 2022, Athens was excitedly preparing for the University of Georgia Bulldogs football game that afternoon. Go dogs? Yeah, this is obviously like really big for Athens. They all love the Bulldogs. This was also a period of time. I mean, the Georgia Bulldogs have been a very good team for the last, well, I would say they've always been a pretty good team, but they won a national championship. I think it was maybe 2022. So there's a lot of die hard Georgia Bulldogs fans out there. Yeah, and this is the second game of the season. So even now, you are so excited for football season, which is just around the corner. But you've been thinking about it and talking about it for months. You're waiting for football season. So this is the second game everybody is so excited for this game and it's a home game. So if you're a football fan, then you know exactly that feeling of like going through June to July to August,

6:17and then you're like, we're so close, it's almost there. And if you're in Athens, you're excited about this particular game. So Debbie actually was also very excited because she headed out to run a few errands and was decked out in her Bulldogs jersey. So she was rep in the Bulldogs that day. That day, she was driving a rental car after her own had sustained damage and was at a mechanic. We're going to talk about that a little bit later. There was kind of an accident that occurred so she had been using a rental car in the meantime. So in this rental car, she drove about 90 minutes north of her home to Clayton, Georgia for an unknown reason and stopped to pick up food at Chick-fil-A for lunch, then headed into a family dollar store inside a strip mall at 2.55 pm. In the parking lot of this strip mall where the family dollar store was, she pulled into a parking spot and then decided to move closer to the front, right in front of the entrance of the store. So first she parked in one spot and then she decided to park

7:17in a different spot that was right in front of the store. And I say unknown reasons, like for unknown reasons, she went to Clayton because there is a Chick-fil-A and a family dollar in Athens. There's actually like right now there's three of each. So it's like she didn't go to Clayton because that's the only Chick-fil-A in the area or there's no family dollar near me. Like we don't know why she would've gone all the way over there. And that kind of adds to the mystery a little bit of why not just go to the family dollar in the Chick-fil-A in Athens. Yeah, why are you driving so far away? Because this was like an hour and a half away. So it's quite far, especially even in LA. I'm like everything's far in LA, but I'm not driving 90 minutes anywhere. Yeah, exactly. So especially in this type of area, that's really far. And obviously I just mentioned that she moved her parking spots. I'm flagging this for myself. Actually, I was going to say that. I was going to say that's absolutely something that Daphne does. If I park too far away from the store front,

8:21Daphne is like, I have to walk an extra 10 feet. Pull up to the front. No, this is a thing, though. And I'm not the only woman here. You men, I don't know what it is. You like to park on the other side of the parking lot from the store. I'm like finding the closest spot. You're like, yes. Well, parking at a different state. Literally, you're like, I don't even want to be in the parking lot, park across the street. But no, I want to bring this up because I'm going over this again. I think I have a comment regarding why she might have moved the car. I'm just saying that aloud for. So I forgot. So put a pin in it. You put a pin in that place. OK. Well, Debbie could be seen on security footage inside the store. She was acting totally normal. And of course, sporting that red bulldog's jersey shorts and a red visor. Now, at family dollar, she bought a torch lighter, a red tote bag, two rolls of paper towels, a rain poncho, and a blue tarp before exiting the store at 309 PM. Really interesting collection of purchases.

9:22Yeah, so strange. Well, then she got into her car and moved it to a different spot in the parking lot. And then she just sat in her car for a few minutes. But what she was doing inside her car still remains a mystery. So we don't know. So again, she parked her car in a different spot originally. Then she went to the front. Then she moved to another spot again to not be in front of the store. Just recapping that interesting note. Well, though it seems like at least part of that time was spent on her phone because at 317 PM, so eight minutes after getting into her car, she sent her 36 year old daughter Amanda in a alarming message alongside a large payment from her Venmo account that she shared with her husband, Steve. So the name on the Venmo says Steve Collier. Yeah, it doesn't say Debbie. It says Steve Collier. Because they shared it. Right. So this was a payment of $2,385.

10:25And Debbie wrote in her text where daughter quotes, they are not going to let me go. Love you. There's a key to the house in the blue flower pot by the door, which obviously is very cryptic, very eerie, especially knowing what's going to happen. And with that message accompanying like in the Venmo payment, that's the message attached to it. Here's this very specific amount of money. They won't let me go. Yeah, very, very concerning. Well, later, in unsent text message drafted to her son, Jeffrey, was found on her phone. And it read simply quote, I love you. And then just two minutes later, her phone was powered off. At 319 PM, she exited the parking lot and drove south on Highway 15 back towards Athens. So alarmed by this Venmo in the attached message, Amanda called her mom multiple times in hopes of figuring out what her message meant. She's so confused by this message, but Debbie actually never answered. Now, initially, Amanda remembered being more confused

11:27than panicked, but as her calls continued to go to voicemail, she became more agitated and decided to just head over to their house and see what the hell was going on here. And it's pretty interesting because Amanda had actually spoken to her mom earlier that same day and claimed that she seemed like herself and that nothing seemed wrong at all. They'd also seen each other the day prior for lunch. And Debbie was in good spirits then too. Well, back at the home, Steve was also looking for Debbie. He last saw her at 9 PM the previous day when they were headed to bed, but they slept in separate bedrooms because apparently Steve was like this chronic snorer. He woke up early the next morning to work as a car parker for the Bulldogs game from 9 AM to 406 PM. And there's actually surveillance footage of him there doing this job. And when he left that morning, he just figured that Debbie was still in bed, noting that her car was still parked out front, which it appears it likely was because remember,

12:28she didn't start running these errands until about 2 PM that day. Yeah, so she probably was sleeping before 9 AM. Right. Saturday morning. Well, one neighbor claimed to have heard commotion coming from their home the night before, which was Friday, September 9, 2022, when Steve says that he last saw Debbie, which of course was at 9 PM. But this claim could actually never be substantiated. This neighbor described that the yelling, which we don't have a specific time for, involved quote, somebody who comes up to visit on the weekends, and that on this particular evening, there was a loud screaming match and a lot of fighting going on. Which is interesting, because the house that they lived in is very rural. Like, when you look at the street view, which we'll post photos of, and we'll put here on YouTube, it's like, they're on a hill and out in front. It's like this winding road, like in the middle of the woods. Like, when you look at the winter street view, it looks like Blair Witch Project vibes.

13:29Like, it's barren woods. And so around the time that this case is occurring in September, it would have been a lot more lush and green. But it's definitely very rural. So they do have neighbors. But this isn't like a suburban neighborhood. So I think it's interesting that the neighbor did hear this, and that this is a question in the case, because they absolutely could have been arguing before bed. Sure. And it could have nothing to do with this story. But are you saying just because, like, you wouldn't imagine that the neighbor would hear it, unless it was like, really loud, because they weren't right next to each other? And like, voices carry in the woods, I guess. Sure, yeah. But I just wanted to make sure everybody knew this is not a suburban neighborhood. It's like near more of a suburban neighborhood. But this is like a rural area. So definitely something worth noting. Yeah. Well, the game, the Bulldogs game that day started at 4 p.m. And it was a home game, like I said, right there in Athens, Georgia, against the Samford Bulldog.

14:29So Bulldog on Bulldog. This team is from Birmingham, Alabama. But in case anybody's like, well, then why was he working? Why was Steve working from 9 to 406? Heath, why don't you explain that to us? Oh, that's just, there's an easy explanation for this. It's because people tailgate. And that's just, when I would go to Ducks Games, we would get there super early, so that we could hang in the parking lot. There's people with tents. They're barbecuing. They're watching TV, other games on TVs that they bring with them. So yeah, people start very early. Yeah. So he's helping with that. And then, of course, he leaves at 406, because by that point, everybody's in their seats. The game is starting. He wants to watch the game of Bulldogs. Yeah, oh my god. Yeah. So he's going home. Again, Debbie was wrapping her jersey that day. Like they were anticipating watching this game. It was a very exciting game. By the way, the Bulldogs, the Georgia Bulldogs won that day. They dominated. Well, of course they did. Sorry, sorry, Samford Bulldogs.

15:31But everybody knows Georgia is a really good team. Well, yeah. So they absolutely won that day. But when Steve arrived home that Saturday, again, expecting to find Debbie home so they could watch the game because he was just at the football game, parking the cars, Debbie's car was gone, which, to us, makes sense, because we know an hour earlier, and a little over an hour earlier, at about 3 p.m., she's an hour and a half away running errands, which makes it even weirder that that day she had gone that far away considering the freaking game is on. Like you, you want to be home. If you want to run errands, go to Chick-fil-A. Go to Family Dollar. Do it in Athens and be home to enjoy the game with your husband, right? Again, one of the biggest mysteries of this case today is the fact that she was so far away. And we still don't know the reason. Yeah, it's truly weird. That's why this is really important to emphasize. Well, after waiting for the rest of the afternoon for her to return, the game comes and goes.

16:32He called the police after 6 p.m. to report his wife missing, which was about 2 and 1 half hours after she was last seen at the Family Dollar. So even Steve is like, she's supposed to be home. She didn't tell me she was going to be out all day. And then of course, with Amanda, also there, like you said, she was trying to get a hold of her mom Debbie. Debbie's not answering. So she just goes to the house. So then suddenly Amanda shows up and Steve is like, wait, you're worried about her too? What? She sent you this Venmo. I haven't seen her either. Yeah, what the hell is going on? So with that, this gave Steve fuel to call 911. And here is a clip of that call. That's for hanging on the one. Yeah, came home, a wife was at home, or driver's license is still in there. The red car is gone. And her daughter's here. And we've kind of worried about what's happening to where she's at. I was wondering if you could send somebody over here.

17:35Do you have any medical issues? Is it all some sort of stuff like that? No, no, she's 59 years old. No, she has no medical issues, so I guess. And according to her daughter who went up and she'll first still here with her driver's license. The only thing is the phone is gone. And she kept her daughter's text about two hours ago saying they won't let me go. Whatever that means, we don't know. And I've been gone all day parking cars for the football game. And that's where we are. What's your address, sir? OK, so she sent your daughter a take, man, to send that. I think that daughter. That daughter said they won't let her go. Yeah, they know she's got text message, saying that. What's your name, sir? Steve Carrier. And your wife's name? Debra. Before we call it, Debbie, but it's B-E-B-O-R-R-R-A-H. How old is she? That's 59? 59. Just turned 59. You just returned home, right? Yeah, I just returned home. I was parking cars until about 430.

18:35And when I came back, the van that she had rented because of Carve and Shopped was gone. I think that she was shopping for food. What else did she leave for the purse or anything else? Yeah, she left her purse. And her credit cards are here. OK, your stepdaughter, did she see her? No. No, nobody has seen her. I was put in the car last night. What kind of thing? Not a clock last night? Yeah, by nine a clock, we went to bed. Was she me going to somebody's house or? That's a good question. I thought she was our shop for food. Her daughter came over with that strange message and then went upstairs to her bedroom and found out that her driver's license and credit card still here. So that doesn't sound like her leaving the house to go shopping like I thought she was. She used to shop for food on Saturday. So on that call, Steve says that Debbie left her purse at home, but upon further inspection, she seemed to have taken her phone and a single card,

19:38like a debit card out of her wallet. So she didn't bring her whole wallet. She didn't have her driver's license, even though she's driving a rental car so far away from home. She doesn't have that with her. And she doesn't have her whole wallet and anything else in her purse. Yeah, just the debit card in the phone. Which is also really strange. Well, by this time Amanda had also reported her mom missing because she really had a lot of the reason to after that Venmo came in. But later I will say both Steve and Amanda were deeply criticized for waiting over two hours, especially after that Venmo came in to call the police. But I just want to say, imagine you receive this text. Hindsight, everything that we're about to find out and the fact that we're talking about the story on a true crime podcast, you might be thinking, oh my god, I would have called 911 right away. But would you really have? Because if I care about my mom so deeply and I talked to her all the time, if she had sent me that, I absolutely would have been like what is going on. And if she's not answering the phone,

20:38I would have investigated it. I would have gone to my stepdad. But I don't know that immediately I would have called 911. I would have investigated it. And that's what Amanda did. She investigated it. And after a couple hours when she learned from her stepdad, wait, I actually don't know where she is either. Then she's reporting her missing right then and there. But I think it's like calling the police is a really serious thing. You, this is a big deal. Yeah, I think that a lot of people don't take that lightly. It's kind of like they're in a situation like this. It's like the last option. It's like maybe because you don't want to seem like you're overreacting and then it's like, oh, I'm so silly. Like you were just doing this or doing that and like you're fine. And to be fair, like Debbie is this sweet Southern lady, she's not the kind of gal who's going to pull a prank and be like, they won't let me go. Here's some money. The key's under the flower pot. So yeah, for Debbie, that's a really concerning message to receive or from Debbie it is. But still, I understand the hesitancy of being like,

21:40wait, this is serious. There's some things going on with her. Well, actually Steve and Amanda weren't the only people to call 911. Yes, because Debbie sister Diane also called 911 fearing that something was seriously wrong. And she actually on the phone wondered allowed to the operator about whether Debbie's disappearance was the result of the car accident that she had been in months prior, which was the reason for her rented minivan in the first place. Because according to Diane, Debbie had been driving behind a truck when something flew out of the truck bed and hit her car, which worst nightmare, I feel like that's the fears instilled in all of us by final destination. Yep, that log truck. Yeah, but this wasn't a log apparently. According to Diane, Diane remembered it being like a can of paint, which is also like a really scary thing to hit your car. But this was later called into question by alternating reports, which documented

22:40that the item was a metal object, also very concerning. Either way, something big and heavy hit Debbie's car. She pulled over, so did the driver. This is a guy named Miguel Martinez. And he requested that Debbie not report the incident to the police because he wasn't permitted to drive. So Diane, having gotten all this information from her sister Debbie after this whole incident occurred, Diane explained that this guy had been out on parole following a domestic violence incident, and that his license was suspended. But further investigation revealed that his license had just been expired, which is like, imagine telling a woman that you're trying to gain sympathy from, that you are essentially a woman beater, and instead of just saying that my license expired. Yeah, it seems like Miguel is not a very good guy. And he's obviously not very responsible either.

23:41So he's kind of like, just pump the brakes. Please don't tell police because it's going to affect me. And it's like, I don't care. I don't know who you are. Yeah, but like that reasoning is just so weird. She's got to be like, oh, I'm so sorry. She's like, I have so much sympathy for the woman beater. Let me just. No, no, that's why it's like, what a weird thing to offer up anyway. Debbie reported the situation anyway. And Miguel was cited for driving without securing the load in the back of his truck, as well as for driving without a license. So Diane is wondering if he may have retaliated against Debbie for her reporting it as she had the right to deal. It is an interesting theory for sure. Because of course, a few short weeks later, Debbie's missing and calls to her phone continued to go unanswered. But as we know now, her phone had been turned off and unfortunately could not give away its location. So they're not able to track her whereabouts at this time.

24:41Well, here's where the investigation gets even more strange. So on the afternoon of Sunday, September 11th, so one day after Debbie mysteriously vanished, the Talu LaFaul's police department came upon Debbie's rental minivan, which was a black Chrysler Pacifica. And the car was actually spotted after being located by the serious XM satellite radio feature, because the car's radio could be pinged by serious, and the police actually requested that they do this. Her rental car was parked about 13 miles or 20 kilometers south of the family dollar, where she had been shopping before her disappearance. Her car was parked on the northbound side of Georgia Highway 15 in Clarksville, in a pull-off that led to a logging road, located alongside the Chata Huchi. Whoa, this is gonna be a good one. The Chata Huchi O'Connie National Forest, which is a really random place to find her, the way that it's just pulled off the highway,

25:41and then it goes down to a logging road already in this area that's so far from her home. Like it looks like somebody just kinda dumped it there. And it's never a good sign when you find an abandoned vehicle on a logging road. I just, we talk about that so often on this show, you immediately get bad feelings. Yeah, because it just, it just like wreaks of a disposal. Right. Well, the car had been left unlocked, but there were no discernible signs of a struggle nor anything that would indicate what, to what may have happened to her or where Debbie had gone. But then, cadaver dogs were dispatched to search the surrounding area. And shortly afterwards, they came upon her body. So officers first saw what appeared to be garbage abandoned in the woods spotting the red tote bag first, the one that she had purchased from family dollar. But upon further inspection, surrounding that red tote bag, where there remains of a fire. A blue tarp had also been burned, and just as short ways down the embankment

26:42was Debbie's body. She was partially nude and lying on her back with her feet facing downhill, and she was clutching a small tree with her right hand. Her body was burned with significant charring to her abdomen, according to the police report. Her body was found down this steep hill in the woods surrounding the highway, and it was over a quarter of a mile or about 400 meters walk from where she had parked to where her body was actually found. Which came as a shock to her family, of course, who noted that she had a bad back and that she couldn't really walk all that far. This is kind of weird too, because walking this distance would have taken, if it's flat, would have taken you maybe 10 minutes to walk. But this is a lot more physically challenging because she's having to... You're in the woods. Yeah, and there's an embankment. You're watching your steps. So it's a really strange place to find her, and the situation surrounding is, well,

27:44the scene is so weird. She's a few yards away from this burn site, and she... I mean, like you're saying, she's partially nude. This is painting such a weird... There's random items kind of strewn about, parts of them are burned, weird. So basically, Debbie was found lying next to a large uprooted tree. We're gonna post pictures of this for everybody to see. It's like a huge, frickin tree that's laying on its side, exposed roots, and then there's the scene where Debbie is but also scattered by her body, like scattered around her body, were burned paper towels, scraps of the blue tarp and red tote bag that she had purchased at the family dollar, and multiple pairs of discarded rubber gloves, like those blue ones. Which is weird because... I don't know. When you think about like a scene where a body is located, remains are located, the fact that there's rubber gloves there

28:45also gives you kind of a bad feeling because it's like, was somebody did somebody potentially do this and they're trying to cover up the scene? You know, they're trying not to get their DNA on things. Well, there was also a gas cap burned wood and the melted remains of a plastic gas container. Just so bizarre, but also painting the picture of that, you know, like especially with the paper towels and the wood and the gas can. Like it looks like somebody was starting a fire and there was a fire. So it's like it makes sense, but it still feels like such a random collection of objects. Well, Debbie had sustained second and third degree burns to about 80% of her body. While the detectives were surveying the scene, Debbie's 36 year old daughter Amanda arrived at her mom's vehicle, hysterical and terrified, hoping for details as to what became of her mother. And officers informed her that her mom had passed away. So she learns that her mom's car was found

29:47and she goes there hoping that her mom's is gonna be there and then they explain that they just found her deceased in a very strange scene in the woods. So obviously devastated and shocked and so confused, Amanda told investigators that her mom had never suffered from suicidal ideation, at least not as far as anybody knew, staunchly believing that whatever happened to Debbie had been done to her. In the aftermath, Amanda offered an interview in which she maintained, quote, somebody took my whole world from me. She was a beautiful, kind, giving woman and she didn't deserve any of this. I want justice for my mom. Debbie's son, Jeffries, so of course Amanda's brother took to social media to write a very touching tribute to his mom and urge the public to allow police to conduct their investigation because some dark rumors were really circling this case, including that someone in Debbie's family had killed her. Jeffrey wrote, quote,

30:47I am writing to request respect and privacy during the darkest and most harrowing time for my family. I have been incredibly hurt and disturbed by some of the reporting and information shared regarding the investigation into my mother's death. I ask that all attention on the tragic story of my mother's death remain focused on aiding the police investigation. There is no place for the court of public opinion in the pursuit of justice for my mother and this speculation continues to be traumatic and hurtful for my family during the most difficult time we have experienced. I will never be able to fully articulate the loss of my mother and what she meant to me. She was my longest source of love, support and encouragement. My mother was a very vibrant and strong soul. She was a person who valued kindness, empathy, and understanding throughout her entire life. She went through life recognizing the beauty and grace and everything she saw and experienced around her. Daily life was filled with joy and beauty.

31:49She spent her time enjoying and making art. She valued dancing and singing along with listening to her favorite music. My mother consumed herself with the holidays as her focus remained on family and the value of being together over a home-cooked meal. My mother was persistent in her love throughout my entire life and I will persist until she is given the justice she deserves. Our lives have been irrevocably changed. Our grief is here and our pain is deep. Again, that is why I am asking you to please respect our privacy while we learn to cope and adjust with our loss. The police were honest with the public about the baffling circumstances surrounding the case because they too were baffled admitting that they couldn't yet be sure of the direction that the case was gonna take. They were like, we're really trying to put this strain puzzle together. They're stumped too. They don't know what to think of this whole situation. So in a press release issued at the end of September 2022,

32:51the Habersham Sheriff's Office announced, quote, in an attempt to address suggestions of this being a suicide or the work of a serial killer, we want to reiterate that there is nothing that has come from this investigation thus far that would support the theory that this was self-inflicted or that it was a random act of violence. At this time, the investigation is leading us to the proposition that Mrs. Colier's death was personal and targeted. But this story felt complicated from the beginning because based on the eerie tax and that Venmo payment, the initial assumption made by most, including Debbie's family, was that she had been abducted and then was killed. Hence, the justification for the text, they won't let me go. But police also noted that there was no evidence of an abduction taking place. A few weeks later by October of 2022, the FBI had joined in on the investigation, but this unfortunately didn't bring them any sort of new angle to the story.

33:51Then on November 18th of 2022, the Habersham County Corner revealed their shocking final conclusion. Debbie Colier's death was believed to be a suicide, citing her toxicology report and the fact that the fire seemed to have been started by Debbie herself. Her autopsy concluded, quote, thermal injuries of the external body surface and of the tracheal mucus a windpipe, no deposited soot in the airway, and no significant elevation of blood, carbooxahumah, what the fuck in, what? It's the fucking word. Carboxy, carboxyhumo, oh my god, carboxihumoglobin, oh my god. No significant elevation of blood, carboxihumoglobin. So essentially her body and the lining of her windpipe showed burn damage, but there were not the usual signs that she had been breathing and smoke for very long,

34:53or possibly at all, while this fire was still burning. Which is really suspicious. Yeah, so critics of this ruling have noted that, you know, if she did set this fire by herself, she would very likely have inhaled some of that soot, but none of it was found in her lungs, but there was actually some found inside her nose. But which is weird because if there's not any in her lungs, if it got in her nose, but then it didn't quite make it into her lungs. It would indicate that she was probably already dead by the time that this fire was raging and creating that soot. But as we're gonna get into, this was apparently a very quick fire. So if she set it herself, but she didn't breathe any of the smoke in from this fire, it's very interesting. And also, I think very suspicious. Well, a forensic pathologist in retired New York City chief medical examiner, this is Dr. Michael Baden, which many of you guys probably know from the show autopsy. We've talked about them on the show many times. Yeah, we have because, you know, he's very intelligent

35:55when it comes to these things. So he actually evaluated the results of the autopsy and stated in the press quote, from a forensic point of view, that would indicate that she was dead before the fire started. Dr. Baden also noted quote, you usually need clothing to set yourself on fire, but of course, as we know, she was partially nude, which also can't be explained. Now, according to the corner, her cause of death was due to thermal injuries from this fire, hydrocodone intoxication, and the inhalation of superheated gases. The investigation determined that she had ingested a lethal amount of hydrocodone before abandoning her rental car, walking through the woods to her final resting place, and using the supplies that she had just purchased from that family dollar in order to set herself on fire. And yet Dr. Baden thinks it's a lot more likely that she was killed and not that she did this to herself. So I think it's interesting that he's pointing these things out. He did not, you know, he didn't do the autopsy, of course,

36:58but he reviewed it afterwards and had a lot of things to say. So that cause of death is really interesting and that hypothesis is too. Yeah. Well, one other interesting thing that they found here is that although she did have an active prescription for hydrocodone, she'd ingested four times the dosage on the day of her death. But this entire announcement came as a shock to her entire community, her family, and everyone who had been following the case in the news and they all began to challenge it. True crime has made Heath and I super paranoid over the years, so home security is very important to us. But what do you think most home security system brands do as an intruder approaches your house? Really not much until the window breaks. Then the alarm goes off and you get a notification. But what if the whole point was to stop that chain of events before it even started so you can feel truly safe?

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39:03You know what you don't expect? Free drinks. But now, team mobile members get a free premium drink when they fly Delta Airlines. So just sit back, relax, and switch to team mobile today. Visit teamobl.com slash membership for details. It's better over here. Get a free premium Delta drink with eligible plan and link SkyMiles account 24 hours people qualifying for like required must be 21 or older CT life for terms. So the scene investigators were suggesting happened to go something like this. Debbie drove herself to this particular remote area that was over an hour away from her house for an unknown reason, consumed hydrocodone in excess, set herself on fire, and then died from the combined effects of the heat and fire exposure and the drug intoxication. All after sending a strange Venmo with a very specific dollar amount to her daughter, suggesting that somebody wouldn't let her go.

40:04Well, to the dismay of her family, like I hinted at earlier, suspicion fell on her daughter Amanda almost immediately, but it also fell on her boyfriend. And there is a pretty, I would say a pretty good reason. Why there's some suspicion going on here, but go ahead and get into that. Let's talk about it because Amanda had been living in Maryland with her brother until two days before their mom disappeared, giving people, you know, kind of a lot of fuel to theorize that she might have moved back to Georgia just to carry out some sort of planned attack against her mom because it happened right after she got back. This is one thing that people were immediately pointing out, but the reason they were suspicious of her came from something else entirely because basically, Amanda's on and off again boyfriend Andrew Guy Gritch is a former MMA fighter with a very complicated past because about two years into their relationship in May of 2021. Andrew was arrested after having been physical with her, bruising both her right shoulder and her right arm

41:06in the process. According to Amanda, he also told their friends that she had been cheating on him, even though she maintained that she never has cheated on anybody, including him. And then he was violent because of that. Her family maintained though that the violence between the two of them had been constant during the two years of their relationship. And this was the second domestic violence complaint stacked against Andrew. So in June of 2021, Amanda placed her restraining order on him. Furious at this, he left her a handwritten note that read, have a nice life, you lying as bitch, don't ever contact me again. If you or your family ever come near me again, I will hurt them. I like the way that you said bitch there. Thank you. Lion as bitch. Fucking bitch. I figured that was maybe how we said it, you know, I mean, a pretty aggressive note to read because he doesn't want Amanda to leave him. So he's kind of being like, which I think is interesting too that he decided to mention if like he's he wants her back,

42:10but he's mad at her, but he's writing her the letter. And he's saying if you or your family come near me, but he doesn't want to be away from her. So actually on September 4th, 2021, one year before Debbie died, he arrived at her home, banging on the door and accusing her of stealing from him. And this is actually when Amanda was living with Debbie. So Debbie called the police about this during one of these situations where because he was doing this multiple times. He's coming to the hall, he's banging the door, he's going to have to go to her bedroom window. Really erratic. Yeah, so Debbie actually called 911. And here is that call so you can hear what a sweet lady Debbie is, but also how much they were dealing with Andrew's erratic behavior. I'm from Park County now and one. Hi, my name is Debbie Callier. I own the property at 1332 Tallahsey Road. Andrew Grygritz is there breaking out the windows in my property.

43:16Trying to break in on my daughter. I am so sick of him destroying my property. Please arrest him. And if I need to meet you out there, I will. You shall reply breaking out the windows. Yes, he's out there breaking out the windows. He's broke my daughter's bedroom window. What nail? I look like your daughter's off the call one and about it. Okay, good. All right, but we got him on the way, okay? All right, honey. Thank you so much. So after this September incident, police were summoned to the home by Amanda after she called 911. To report that Andrew had violated his no contact order by, of course, showing up at the home. But he countered that she had stolen money from him to buy drugs and that he simply wanted her to pay him back. Which actually did appear to be true because as much as $600 at a time were skimmed from each of his weekly paychecks

44:20in order to fuel her drug habit. Andrew later explained, quote, I don't have a phone because my phone broke. So this is the dumbest mistake I've ever made. We linked our cards together so that she can send herself money from my card. The first person to touch my money is her. That's the only reason we've had any contact. Because every week she takes $500 to $600 from my check. And I just don't see how that's right. And she goes and she does dope with that money. She's probably on drugs right now. But Amanda maintained that Andrew was trying to break into the home and that she was terrified for her safety. So he was arrested at the scene and told that he would need to pursue the matter in civil court rather than attempting to recoup the loss in person. So they're saying, you got to deal with this in court. Don't go after her for the money in person. Because obviously you have a no contact order. Yeah, you need to do it the right way. Well, that same month, he was arrested again for DUI

45:21and reckless driving charges. And January of 2022, he pleaded guilty to the domestic violence charges against him and he was sentenced to probation. On August 26th of 2022, he was arrested for a probation violation. And this time, he was sentenced to just six days in jail. The judge also mandated that he complete a substance abuse treatment program. But then came a very surprising development. Amanda and Andrew appeared to be trying to reconcile. After her return from Maryland, maybe because she was, you know, grieving her mom, she and Andrew reconnected. And they were seen together at Amanda's home in the aftermath of Debbie's death. Amanda has been very open about her past in the media. And that she has struggled with bipolar disorder as well as drug dependency. But back in both 2008 and 2012, she was arrested for disputes with two separate boyfriends. So it kind of seems like she has a little bit of a dotted past as well. But the former charge was eventually dropped after she was able to complete

46:24a drug intervention program. On the latter charge, she wasn't let off so easily. And she wound up being saddled with charges of criminal trespassing, misdemeanor battery, and disorderly conduct. So her boyfriend at the time allegedly told the police that he had to physically hold her back while she broke a video game of his. He also sustained scratches to his chest, back, and arms. So she pleaded guilty to a charge of disorderly conduct and she was placed on probation. She was also issued court-ordered anger management courses. And she later served jail time for battery and defrauding a drug test in order to pass that drug test. So again, you know, she's, she has these disputes with a lot of different boyfriends of hers. And you know, the day that her mom goes missing, she gets this very suspicious Venmo payment for three grand, which by the way, Debbie's other child, Jeffrey,

47:27didn't get any sort of payment. He just got a, I love you. So that's really not even that. Yeah, it wasn't sent. Right. It wasn't even sent. But that's why it's so weird to me. Well, let's get into that. But actually because first and foremost, their home was served with a search warrant and the possibility that the pair or at least Andrew was involved in Debbie's death and attempting to steal money from her. Andrew later reported that their phones were seized in the warrant and said in an interview that all members of the family had been interrogated extensively. So he's like, yeah, I'm being interrogated, but so is everybody else. It doesn't mean I did anything. But it's strange because according to local news coverage, the amount that Debbie sent via Venmo, $2,385, is nearly to the dollar what Andrew owed in probation fines. And this was by the way allegedly discovered by the Grizzly True Crime podcast and then reported about in the news because we've all been wondering why it was such a specific dollar amount

48:31and this might just be the explanation. Yeah, that part is so suspicious. The fact that before Debbie disappears, before she's found dead, Amanda and Andrew, they're broken up. They're not together. Amanda goes back to Georgia, her mom. It appears in my opinion that her mom is murdered and then she gets sent, Amanda gets sent $3,000. And it's the perfect amount. It's the perfect amount that Andrew needs. And then after that, Andrew and Amanda get back together. Mm-hmm. Fucking weird. It is weird too, though, because in that 9-1-1 call of Debbie, calling about Andrew, she sounds like so fed up. She's like, will you just arrest him like she's been doing this so often? She doesn't like Andrew. She doesn't want to pay his probation fines. She doesn't want to help him out. So the weird thing about that to me, though, is I can't imagine that she would have willingly paid those fees for him,

49:35which I think makes this more suspicious that the numbers could be the same, because it's like why in what world would she want to pay his probation fines so that her daughter could be with a piece of shit and continue to make bad choices in life? Like she wants her daughter to be safe and healthy. So that's really weird. And also that part of the message where it's like they won't let me go. It's so vague and it feels like if somebody was trying to make it seem like somebody... There's no organization after me. Yeah, and they abducted her. They would be probably pretty vague like that and say something very cryptic and short. Well, both Amanda and Andrew maintain that they were afraid in the aftermath of her mom's death and that they were barricading their door at night. Andrew stated, quote, we sleep with stuff in front of our front door and our back door because we didn't have anything to do with this. We're a little scared ourselves. That sounds like me every single night of my life, but for a different reason.

50:38So they're saying that they're scared of... That someone's coming after them because people think that they killed Debbie. So they're like, we're scared that someone's gonna come after us. Yeah? For something we didn't do. Should've got some simply safe. Well, despite her checkered past, Amanda has maintained her innocence in her mom's shocking death. And she also says that she doesn't have any reason to have wanted her mom dead, so she's like, I didn't do this and why would I have? Thus, without more evidence of another person concretely being attached to this, suicide remains a plausible theory for multiple reasons. For one, Amanda recalls that her mom was giving her possessions away the day before her disappearance and that she saw her mom have tears in her eyes at this, which is something that confused her at the time because her mom was always bubbly and vivacious. So now she wonders if she was giving her things away because of what she was planning,

51:38which take that for what you will. Now, people who believe this suicide ruling are really looking at the fact that, okay, well, Debbie, send her daughter a Venmo and a message. So she was able to do that, but she wasn't able to call 911. If she was being held hostage in her vehicle, like, why would she send a Venmo and not call the police? Like, that just makes this whole thing look a little bit more phony to them. Yeah, and also it wasn't some grand amount of money. It wasn't like $20,000 or she's dead. It's like, she gave money away. She didn't ask for money. Right. And for what? Well, that's another thing too, is that this Venmo was sent to Amanda while Debbie. Like, we essentially have video of the text being sent or the message being sent and the Venmo being sent. We don't have a video of her doing it, but as we played for you guys earlier, and what you can find on our socials is the surveillance video where her car is in the parking lot. It moves from being parked out front of the dollar or the family dollar.

52:41And then it kind of moves to like the spot behind it that's in the middle of the parking lot. And it sits there for like 10 minutes. During that 10 minutes, Debbie sends that Venmo with the message. So the only thing that would really make sense is if somebody was in the car with Debbie forcing her to do that. And this is what I wanted to bring up earlier, the pin, picking the pin out now, when why she moved. So she parked in the middle. Then she moved her car to the front. Then she moved her car back to the middle and then she left. So in my opinion, it just playing devil's advocate. If there was somebody in the car with her, not sure who, not sure how they got there, then maybe she parked in the middle and they said, no, I want to watch you while you're in the store and make sure that you're not going to tell anybody anything and you're not going to act suspicious. So I want you to park right in front of the source so I can watch you. And then move back to the middle so we can figure out what we're doing next and that nobody sees me. Like that's the only way I could explain that if it even needs to be explained. Yeah. But yeah, it's also hard to explain again why, why the money is being sent.

53:47When usually in situations like this, we've covered cases before where Venmo and CashApp is involved. You're usually asking for money or you're sending it to a suspicious person like a ransom. Yeah, and that doesn't, it's, you know, it's again, it's just such an oddly specific number. It's not like, hey, Amanda, I'm going to give you $5,000 so long. Yeah, hopefully you can use this with your life. It's like so specific with the dollar amount and like who could possibly be holding Debbie hostage, who could benefit from Debbie sending Amanda money and then they kill Debbie. Like how is that going to benefit somebody to force Debbie to send Amanda money and then kill her in a really obscure way? It's like it can't be explained. But I also think that there's a lot of suspicions on the other side. Like her cause of death, the way that she was found, the choices that she made leading up to it, why she went, where she went.

54:49Like when I was looking online because I really wanted to see like where the general public is on this story. Almost everybody, every comment that I read on Reddit, every forum I looked at, everybody, nobody thinks this is a suicide. Like there are of course people who do, but everybody is fighting against this ruling, it seems. Yeah. And a lot of people are also pointing out the fact that Dr. Beaton, who is very well respected, doesn't think it was a suicide either. And the fact that he leans more likely to this being a homicide. And she gets ready for the day because she wants to watch her beloved Bulldogs game. She's wearing the gear and everything. But why go so far away when again you mentioned there's a family dollar and a Chick-fil-A in Athens. Could have easily just done that. But also somebody brought this up online that was kind of a good point. You know, they said, oh yeah, she had to stop by Chick-fil-A and get some lunch to eat because you don't want to commit suicide on an empty stomach.

55:52It's like, you know, and it makes you think like, would you really go through the effort of feeding yourself if you were planning on just... You could also look at like a final meal. Sure. But again, why go to Athens or why go to Clayton then? Why not stay in Athens? If we're thinking again, I know this might sound crazy to some people, that there was somebody in the car with her. That would maybe make more sense to make her leave the area. But then also why let her go to Chick-fil-A? Like, I just, I can't figure it out. I can't figure any of it out. Well, what I want to know is if Clayton is something, is a place that, you know, Debbie has like a personal relationship to. Like, if it means something to her in any sort of way... I'm apparently not. Because typically, like, if you're going to take your own life, I mean, this isn't always the case. But a lot of people choose a specific place to do that. So I just wonder why Clayton? There is no public information about her having any ties to Clayton. And as we know, she's from Alabama. So it truly feels so random.

56:53If she did often run errands and Clayton for whatever reason or had any friends there, that information has not been released at this point. So there's no answer to that. Just like there's no answer to why she was partially nude, though she was wearing her Bulldogs jersey, which had obviously been heavily burned by the time they found her body. But every piece of information in this case comes with at least one question. Well, let's go back to the family dollar. So she was also clearly seen on the security camera footage inside the family dollar alone. So it's possible that, you know, if she was being held against her will, she was ordered to go inside and pick up those specific items. But it seems surprising that she would have done so without, of course, like covertly asking for help. Unless it's because they were watching her or whatever, but then we also have to think about what she bought. She bought a tarp, a tote bag, which is like what I came swaying that rain poncho, a rain poncho paper towels. She brought a torch lighter, like a lot of really strange things that could point to somebody setting a fire.

57:57But was it her or was it somebody else? But it's still really strange items to buy. These are just really strange items to buy if you're going to set a fire anyway. Why did you get a tarp? Why did you buy a tote bag or tote bags? Well, the fire is, of course, the most shocking detail given that self-immolation accounts for only about one percent of suicides. So it's not very common. Obviously it does happen, but yeah, it's a really terrifying choice. Strange way to go. Though no one can be sure of her exact motivation or her mental state at the time, maybe the entire ruse was constructed in order to make it easier for her family to stun her. If it was, in fact, suicide or to grant the case enough reasonable doubt that no one would feel that they hadn't done enough for her in her final days. But her family also claimed that she had no history of mental illness and that this development came as a complete shock. And that this entire suicide story of how she set herself on fire and essentially overdosed on hydrocodone is wholly unlike her.

59:05It just doesn't seem like Debbie. I do think it's interesting as well, though, that Amanda herself has pointed this out. And she is like, I think somebody did something to my mom and she did not have suicidal ideation. And then everyone's pointing the finger at her because I feel like if she was involved, she wouldn't say that. She would have been like, yeah, my mom was struggling. She would have probably lied. Well, maybe not. Maybe, you know, in order to kind of divert because obviously in that message, it's like they won't let me go. Debbie's sending money to her Amanda. So it's possible that she, you know, not saying that this is the case, but if Amanda did have something to do with this, maybe she kind of thought about that. And she's like, well, I'm going to go with the abduction angle that somebody else abducted my mom and killed her. You know what I'm saying? I bet as far as we know, Amanda was not in Clayton when this was all happening because of course she was trying to call her mom very shortly after that Venmo was sent. She was calling her mom over and over again until she eventually reported her missing even before Steve did.

1:00:08So we know that her phone was seized. Assumedly, they also checked her phone records. If they determine that while she's calling Debbie, their phone is pinging in Clayton, they probably would have arrested her. Yeah, they didn't. And same thing goes for Andrew. Of course, there are many cases that we discuss where somebody leaves their phone at home so that they're not tracked. Well, yeah, that's where my mind went to as well that, you know, you could easily just leave your phone behind. But the fact that police did extensively investigate them and other members of the family and they didn't say, Oh, well, we caught Andrew's car over here and they were both on surveillance footage passing each other or whatever. Like none of that came out. So I'm not saying that it means that they're not involved. I understand why people have their suspicions. But I don't like I don't have I don't really have a theory with this, but I do want to mention the flower pot part. I think that's really interesting that in the Venmo, she said that the key was under the blue flower pot. Essentially knowing that she wasn't going to be coming home.

1:01:11But why even mention that? Because as we know Amanda just went to the house and Steve was there anyway and she's known Steve for almost a decade at this point. So it's like she didn't have to she didn't have to use a key. She could just go knock on the fucking door. And so what's that about? It's just there's so many questions. Yeah, a lot. Well, now four years later, suspicion still persist that Amanda was involved in the death of her mother. Amanda has said that the suspicions against her have deeply affected her life and her relationship with her family. This even extended to their behavior at the memorial service because at the memorial Amanda recalled that multiple family members told her of their suspicion that she was involved in Debbie's murder. They're like, hey, we think that you are involved in part. She blamed her family for what she described as a witch hunt against her. You know, which is she also recalled with this stain quote all my family turned against me. So I get it thinking you know this girl's crazy.

1:02:16Amanda added that the public speculation that she was facing, especially given her past brushes with the law was excruciating in the aftermath of losing her mom ahead of the suicide ruling. She stated of her online critics quote, they're horrible, awful human beings. And I pray that the trauma and the pain that I had to go through when the police do make the press conference, which they told me that they will. I hope you don't do this to another family. Well, the end of Debbie's life is incredibly strange to say the least, but it remains a mystery whether or not it was the result of a crime. Because to this day, nobody has been named a suspect and officially the case is closed with the ruling of suicide. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. I mean what an interesting story.

1:03:17I don't know where to go with this. I really want to know your guys' thoughts on this case. Please leave us a comment on our socials. We're on Instagram at Going West Podcast. We're also on TikTok as well as Facebook. I just it's hard for me not to lean more towards this being suspicious versus this being a clean cut suicide. Just because of everything that I already mentioned with Dr. Baton and how there's still so many unanswered questions. A lot of people have also really quit a criticized the sheriff's office and saying that they don't believe that they did a good enough investigation and that they're not a very good sheriff's office who is used to cases like this. I mean, it's too investigating homicides. I think at the very least they should maybe reinvestigate the case. They should reopen it because also there was a lot of pressure on this case and so many people also believe that they just wanted to close it and that they're like, okay, we can't figure out who did this and we don't know how to close it.

1:04:19So we're just going to say this was a suicide even though they themselves at the beginning was like, there's no evidence that this was a suicide. It's clearly a very strange story. I mean, we have seen that in cases we've seen sheriff's departments. They just don't know what to do so they either try to railroad somebody and they pigeonhole someone or they just commit a ruling and they say they stay committed to that ruling. Oh, it's suicide. We're just going to leave it at that. Don't ask any more questions. There's no need to keep investigating this. It's over, right? Well, let us know what you guys think because I know like I said in the beginning you either fall on one side or the other you think that this is suspicious and might be foul play or you think that it is a suicide. So let us know what you guys think. Check out the photos online if you want to see beautiful Debbie and everybody involved in this case as well as the crime scene, the car, everything, the surveillance footage, etc. Also, make sure that you subscribe on YouTube so that you can see us hanging in the studio talking about these cases every week.

1:05:25And follow us on Instagram. We are at going West Podcast. We're also on Facebook. We just hit 100,000 on Instagram recently. So thank you. Yeah, appreciate all of you guys. Yeah, we put a lot of fun videos on there like clips from the episodes, but also other little things of Keith and I and our house and talking about cases and giving our honest opinion. So check us out. Thank you guys so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time. All right, guys. So for everybody out there in the world, don't be a stranger. You know those tiny back to school emergencies that somehow become your problem. That's why I love Uber Eats. You can order school supplies, snacks and lunch box essentials for $5 or less. So when your kid casually drops, I don't like peanut butter anymore or I need five green highlighters for a project due tomorrow. Uber Eats has you covered. Get everything you need for back to school today from your favorite brands like Albion Staples on Uber Eats. Order now.

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