Creator Types: Desk Vs Epic

0:00I heard this moniker, desk creator. I heard this on Colin and Simmyer's YouTube channel called Creator Support. They were talking to a creator and they basically told this guy, the kind of work that he does, the kind of videos that he makes, he's in his head, right? He thinks he needs to publish every two weeks. He right now he only publishes once a month and in order to create what he creates, it takes like a long time to make. The most successful thing he's ever done was this big series that took him months to make. They were basically like, yeah, there are a couple different kinds of creators. He's like, you're not a desk creator. Trying to upload every two weeks is basically impossible. If you look at your past successes, do those, do what's all, do what's working.

1:06When I heard that, I was like, oh, okay, here we go. Yes, there are, I am a desk creator. What you see at Simmy University is desk style videos. Even though they may not actually come off that way because when you think of the word desk, maybe you think of the word work, but it's really another phrase for like talking head creators. People who do everything in a studio versus having to go out and shoot. Whether that's vlog style or something that would, and not all vlog style, by the way, takes a lot of time. If you look at a creator that is referenced more frequently than maybe I believe he should, but that would be Casey Neistat. People love Casey Neistat. I am not a fan, but the way that he does his art, the way that he does his videos is

2:08he's constantly moving. His desk is everywhere. But what he's essentially doing is not, it's not, it's a desk creator, it's what he's doing because when he was doing his vlog, there's no writing involved. There's just like, live your day, film it, edit it, publish it. A desk creator, I believe is somebody similar to me who is, who has an idea, shoots it, and then edits that. So both of these styles of creators are very easy, they're very easy to do, versus what I'm calling an epic creator where you have to go and collect footage. It's not just something that you can just get on the day, it's not something you can just create quickly.

3:09You have to go out, you have to script it, you have to storyboard it, you have to have a great idea, there's packaging, there's like, there's a lot that goes into making a very, like a documentary would be like an epic creator style video, or a video that's like fully animated that needs tons and tons of time to make, simply because you can't do it in a single day. Because you can't do it in a single day, or even a few days, this is something that takes many days, whether by nature of the subject matter or the type of video that you make, because maybe you're somebody who does high production value, things like that, and then also your subject matter could take multiple days, you are not a desk creator, you are not a vlog creator, which you could interchange those two because I think both of them require very minimal amount of work to put out a video.

4:11And I really think those are the only two types of creators. The only two types of content you really see are the content that's simple that you can do in a day, or again, less than five, and then everything else. So I've been thinking a lot about this because there's just driving force in me that keeps wanting to pull myself into the epic container, not the desk container. But I also realize that desk content is really easy to make and you can make a lot of it. So here's what I'm saying. When I look at swimming diversity and look at the videos that we make, it truthfully, if we want it to, we could make an entire video in one day.

5:11We can write a script fairly quick, probably in an hour or two. We have a pretty basic template that we use. I have a pre-built studio, I can just stick, I can just turn it on, read the script, we have the A-roll complete, at that point we could launch that video. We really could. And then we just add some B-roll, no sound, really no sound effects, and boom, we have a video out. We can do that in a day. Now there's other styles of that, we could do a Q&A style video where there is no script and all I'm doing is answering questions, right, or reacting to videos, that's basically a desk creator. So there's a lot you can do with a desk format, or shouldn't call it a format, but that style of creation, where you're kind of relying on your own personality and expertise.

6:17You can do a little bit of research, but it doesn't require a ton of research. There's the other, the creator that I love is Hank Green, he is a desk creator. When you watch his videos, he's usually literally at his desk, but his videos are long, and I think he does them once a week, about once a week, and they're well researched, and he has B-roll and stuff. That's a desk creator, it's great. And I think he puts a lot of effort, maybe, or maybe it's just, I think it's just a type of person he is, but it seems like he puts a lot of effort into the topic, meaning I think I saw one where he was like, you know, this is why the F-150 Lightning didn't work. It's like, whatever, but he like did his homework, and then film the video, and it wasn't scripted, it was just him talking, but I'm sure he's sitting there with his bullet points,

7:18and it's highly edited, meaning it's cut up a lot. And this, this kind of video, to me, I am, I keep thinking to myself, that swimming university is not going to do that great with this style of video, because I should be out at a pool, I should be fixing pools overnight, and all this stuff, and it's like, you know, my man, me, you need to chill with that. You need to chill with this idea that you're going to make these big, epic videos for swim university. swimming university, honestly, if you were to do those style of videos, would there be a massive difference in reach, in viewership, in trust, and the answer is simply no.

8:25It's no. I don't think that by going out into the wild and just putting more effort into a highly edited, shot, storyboarded, pool cleaning video, I just, it doesn't make any sense, it doesn't make sense. I think that I can get the same number of views with a desk video than some guy doing the same thing, but in real life. I do. With a desk video, I can give more nuance, I can give more other scenarios, I can do my homework. And also, I can get the best shot, because when you're out in the field like that, and you're having to do these big, epic shoots, it's kind of hard to get the best shots. Not saying you can't do it, but if you're trying to turn around a video every week, you're not going to be able to do it, it's going to be too hard, you're going to be overworked.

9:26And so there's nothing wrong with this style of creator, it's just a different style. Now counter to that, what about doing epic style videos? Why? The thing is, is like, I think there's two ways of thinking about it. I run a business. I keep thinking at some university that I am a creator. I'm not. I'm not a creator. I am a business. Now, it's not to say that a creator can't be a business, but I'm a business first and a creator second. I don't use YouTube as a place to grow an audience and become a YouTuber. I use it for marketing purposes. I am using it to attract people to our brand to buy our products, plain and simple. I do that with social media, I'm not trying to be this famous Instagrammer.

10:29There's no point to being that, that just don't, I'm not trying to make money just creating content on Instagram or doing brand deals, I don't do brand deals. My money comes from my business. And I heard Neil, I think his name is, oh, it's Nile Patel, I believe his name is from the Verge. He was doing a podcast and again, like, I kind of has like a, not, a lot of people are a lot, I don't know how I feel about him, to be honest. Kind of rubs me the wrong way sometimes, but I was watching something he was saying about the creator economy like dying or like being dead. And his take was, it was basically AI is going to kill the creator economy and he really feels bad for creators, mind you, he's a creator himself, although he, that's kind of what

11:30rubbing the wrong way is like he acts as though he's above being a creator, but I'm like, no, that's, that's what you are, right, that's, that's like, what's what journalists are. So basically what he was saying is AI, like, what's the difference between someone like me at swim university doing a talking head at desk video, telling you how to take care of your pool? One day, AI is going to be able to do that. And people are not going to give a shit between me and the AI. They're going to be like, well, whatever, information, information and all the, and brands, his, his argument, is that why pay a human, why, why would a brand pay a human to promote their product when they can just create the create of themselves? They can just make these TikToks or Instagram videos with a fake creator and just sponsor that. So it basically bypasses the creator.

12:30One, the thing I dislike about that take is that it, it basically removes humanity from the entire take. Just like, oh, all humans prefer AI content or, or all humans won't know the difference between an AI and a human. And so, and brands are just going to always choose the cheaper option. And I simply just cannot accept that as a human being living amongst other human beings. Who are artistic and are into marketing and are into collaboration. I just can't accept that. Because at that point, I would also imagine that humans won't be using the internet either. So it's like, it's just such a, it's such a hacky take. It's such a techno futurist take that I just go, yeah, all right.

13:33Like fun doom and gloom, great for, great for rage baiting, but like not based in any reality. Honestly, not based in any reality. But his argument was basically the way that, the only way creators make money is through brand deals, sponsorships. And that's going to dry up because why would a sponsor pay a human when they can just make their own creative? Okay. So, that's the second thing I have an issue with, which is like, not all creators live off of brand deals. Some creators, including myself, live off of their own products, their own products to sell. That is what I do and I feel like it makes me, if that's the criteria of a creator economy that I'm not a creator, because I don't, I don't do brand deals.

14:33So I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, what's the best option here? Like as someone who has a product to sell or multiple products to sell, what's better? Is it better to do super, super, super high quality work, right? Epic style creation, but you can only post once every month or two. Or is it better to do a desk style creation where you can create weekly? And guess what? Because I'm a marketer first in this particular field, I'm choosing the ladder. I'm choosing the desk option because I can create content consistently, more frequently, and put my message for my products out there more often because I have to sell products. Now, if I was doing brand deals, I think you could go either way. I think if that's how I was making money.

15:34And if I was trying to make money through the YouTube platform itself, which look, we do make money through the YouTube platform, but it is not our main source of income. In fact, it's only like a, I think it accounts for like 15% of a revenue, is like literally add sense. So we're not trying to go viral. We're not trying to have these big hits. We can't. No, like for one, like, even if we did, we're probably hitting the wrong audience. And so for me, I think it's important to put out good, longer form videos more frequently. And in order to do that, we may have to mess around with the desk format. So the thing is, I, as a person who is creative, as someone who I guess is slowly starting to consider himself more of an artistic person,

16:37then say a marketer, I keep thinking or wanting, I should say, to be a more epic style creator. It pleases me to think about what the content that I make to feel more like a movie than a TikTok, if that makes any sense. However, because Sunmy University is a business first, it is not required. You do not need to make movies. You're not doing brand deals. You're selling educational products. So put out the content more frequently. Do that. Do that, which is easier, build trust, and it's more consistent and frequent. That said, and something that I've already kind of done. Because I consider myself artistic and creative, I still have that draw.

17:39I still have that need to be an epic creator. It's going to always exist. But what I have to constantly reject is that you can do it, but it can't be Sunmy University. Don't drag Sunmy University into that world. It does not need to be there. And so it's been nice because recently I started doing brew cabin videos, which is my home brewing channel. And I started doing them in epic styles because I'm not doing a desk style video, although I absolutely could. I absolutely could if I wanted to, where I could come out with a video every single week easily. But for what purpose? What is my true goal? Do I have something to sell? No. Do I want to do brand deals? Not really. I mean, I'll do a brand deal, but you're on my terms.

18:44I'm open to them, but that's like the last thing I really want to do. So the goal is different. And I've been thinking a lot about whether or not I would want to take this podcast and turn it into additional content. If I want to, you know, do a YouTube channel, for example, right? Some personal YouTube channel and I keep going, I'm doing this. This is good. I don't need, I have my long form epic style content where I can spend months creating a video and I have my other brand where I can do my desk style videos. And if I want to put a little extra effort in the desk style videos, I will. But that's about it. And I think I need to just keep myself right in that sweet spot. So for Brue Cabin as an example of this like epic style creator, because of the nature

19:52of the topic and the types of videos that I do, it takes at least a month to make. Even a short form video that I'm doing is a month to make because I'm making beer. And I've decided as a creator, I don't want to make short, short, short form content that is just about one single thing about beer. I want to show the entire process, which means that even a short takes at least a month to make. Not physically, just the literal time it takes to ferment a beer, package and condition of beer. That's four weeks minimum. Obviously I can do some that are shorter, but I mean, that's kind of the average. So even if I was on a really strict schedule with creating, let's say shorts for Brue Cabin, I'm doing 12 a year max, which is kind of bonkers. Long form videos I could also do one a month, but I'm like, why?

20:54I'd rather put together something like really, really, really good and drop one every two to three months. And so that's where I'm putting my effort towards, at least on that. And I get to fulfill that side of me and I'm happy with that. Now going to the desk style videos for some university, I have been contemplating how I could improve that. Not just in the number of posts, although I would love to, part of my word of the year, more, I would love to increase the frequency in which we post. I think one a week is good. I certainly think we can do more, but maybe not have to. I think the better thing would be to do more generalized topics in a slightly different format.

21:54So some of the things I'm thinking about are, well, I'll say this, currently the way we do our videos is we take a topic, and let's just say that topic is how to get rid of black algae, right? It's a very specific topic, but we do that video. It's a talking head, right? It's a desk video with B-roll and like, you know, animations and shit. No music, no real sound effects, just kind of straightforward educational style videos. And that video is probably going to be between six to ten minutes, all right? But it's tight. It's a tight six minutes, a tight ten minutes, it's packed with information. That style of video is fairly limiting to us because, or at least I should say, not that style, but that idea is limiting because, guess what, a black algae video isn't going

22:56to get that many views. The idea alone is not going to work. So what I've been thinking about is, how do we take the information in that? We still need to do those videos because we are a company that thrives on search. So when someone types in black algae pool on Google, our video comes up. If they do it in YouTube, our video comes up. We're the only ones who've made that video. We still need to do that, those very specific searchable things. However, if we're trying to grow a bigger audience and reach more people, then we also need to do content that's a little broader. And kind of what I'm thinking is to do some type of like Dave Ramsey-esque education

24:00videos. What I keep seeing people do in my field or in my industry is they keep trying to do podcast, which are desk style videos, right? You sit down at a desk or you sit in front of a microphone in a controlled studio with cameras and you're just kind of talking, right? Yeah, some podcast prepare what have you, but that's really the whole video. Personally, why would anybody in my audience want to watch a couple of dudes or four dudes or maybe a girl in a gut who knows? Some zoom, not on zoom, whatever. Just having a conversation about pools and pool care. I just don't see that being valuable. So what I think would be more valuable to my audience would be to solve their problems. Similar to the way Dave Ramsey does it, where yes, Dave Ramsey could do a podcast where

25:06he's just having conversations about money with his own team. I'm sure he does those too, right? Obviously, I did a podcast that was like that. But well, I say that, but we were discussing specific topics, but yeah, anyway, I could see that being something. But I'm like, wouldn't it be better if people could call in or send in a video with their problems, and then I solve it? And I could do that multiple times per video or just once per video. And then the topic is a little bit more broad. I think this is a good idea. I've seen people do this. I've seen it done fine. But I kind of, every time I see somebody, well, actually, who I was just talking about condoms in me or they have creator support, that is literally what they're doing except

26:06they're doing it in person, which technically they don't have to be in person to do this. And a lot of what they're talking about is tech based. So it's like really easy content to make. Why are they not doing that every day? Like why is that not something you can just crank out daily? It's so easy. You're just reacting basically. You're just helping people. Dave Ramsey does it three hours a day. The problem is just the process. The problem is how do you get people to submit? How do you start that ball rolling? I don't know. It's definitely something we're going to look into. And part of what I would like to try this year as an experiment, and probably something

27:09I'll talk about, is when I told this to Steph, I would like to try my own videos. So within the company, as I'm doing these brew cabin videos, like I'm learning all these little techniques, I'm learning processes, I'm doing all these things, I want to be able to put that to use within streaming diversity and go, hey, I have this idea, I'm going to shoot a pilot basically. I'm going to shoot a pilot and we're going to discuss it internally. Like hey, what do we think of this? Is this a good idea? Let's put it out there in the world and see how it performs. I have a hunch that it might do well. And if it frigging sucks, then it's like, okay, it was a failed experiment. We could just go back to what we were doing, everything's fine. But I would at least like to try that this year. I think that would be pretty cool, honestly.

28:10But it's still, and I'm just going back to the topic here, it's still a desk creation. I'm just trying to think of ways to expand the type of desk content we can do. If I'm thinking in terms of money lab, like this or money lab, that's going to be a tough one to get over. It's not called money lab anymore, it's called business casual. But if I were to do my own personal brand, match of an EC, you go on to my YouTube channel, it's going to be desk content, right? What can I do? Well, I could do interviews through Zoom or through some other program like e-camera or something, Riverside, etc. I could do desk videos where I'm showing you in real time how I do stuff on my computer. I could show you a slideshow. I could do Hank Greenstyle where I'm just talking to camera about a topic like I'm doing

29:12right now and just cutting out all the fluff. And cutting out all the repeated stuff, being more deliberate with my bullet points. I could do, yeah, that's basically like a solo podcast, I guess. I could answer your questions, you know, just I could just do Q&As. I could do reaction videos like I did for a while, I was trying to do website breakdowns and people were like, I like these, but you know, I was like put 15 minutes on the clock, pull up a website, learn about it, critique it. Here's what I would do differently. One idea I've had for a long time is, oh, I'm going to I'll redesign your website, but I'll do it in real time. So I am recording myself looking at your website, going into Figma and like kind of like

30:13redesigning it very quickly and putting pieces in place and like thinking it all through and then having an editor just cut out all of the like dead air parts or speeding up all the dead air parts. And I think that would do fairly well, although, you know, people are not really overly concerned about websites right now, so I don't think that would be the greatest idea, but it would do like, but I could do like brand refreshes, things like that. So that's just, I see people do that all the time and they're much better designers than me. So I'm like, probably not my, probably not my thing, there's a creator, I forget her name, but she does these like logo refreshes and it's so, it's, I mean, I can't imagine being somebody with a logo ascending it into her and her redoing it and you're like, that's so awesome and then she's just making content all the time. There's another guy who he fixes brand, like real brand logos, like big brands and that's

31:20a great series too. Like you could do that all day, right? So yeah, trying to think of like content that you could basically do all day, which really is like, it's, the content you can do all day is the content that is user generated, where it's like, you're just answering questions, you're answering comments, you're answering, you're reacting to other people's videos, you know, things like that. So I think, yeah, that's a process that I would love to put in place. I would love to try out this year and do a couple of prototypes or a couple of pilots and throw it up there and see what happens. And I think there's going to be a lot of that type of experimentation this year. The first thing we're working on is just getting our course out the door, like updating our course and then once that's done, it's like, we get back into YouTube video land

32:24and it's going to be, we're going to be experimenting. Again, I have to remember, I'm staying in desk creator land. I am building out systems where we can crank this stuff out. That's, that's the name of the game for Brookhaven. If you follow that channel, you will see much more like free form. There's no systems there, right? I have generally a list of like templates for ideas, but I don't have a way of filming, a scheduling, you know, I don't want that sort of lifestyle to be honest for that particular brand. But anyway, let me know what you think. Shoot me an email. Currently, my email is mad at moneylab.co. It's probably going to change just something else soon. Like, mad at, probably mad at jivinesi.com or something like that.

33:25But for now, that is my email address and I will have that forward. So it doesn't matter. So shoot me an email. Let me know what you think and I'll talk to you next time.