Cómo regular el salvaje oeste digital (CARNE CRUDA #1617)

0:00I'm RJ Decker, the private investigator, uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets. Tonight, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show. RJ Freakin' Decker has that live-embrie. He's a private eye. It's an upstandard murder. Some bigger. And a public mess. Trying to get some back to prison today? You're gonna prison one time, and suddenly it's all the jokes. RJ Decker, series premiere. Tonight on ABC and stream on Hulu. Asunto. Por fin, me hago productar. I want to thank you very much for joining me and inform you about this periodism you're doing. Human, massacred, critical, worked. I'm living in Australia and I've been living in Spain for years. But back home, through your voice, reconnecting with the idea of revolutionary and critical. With dreams and hopes of a better world in each of your little ones, I'm going back to the assembly of the institute or to the bar with my friends and comrades. It's hard to live in a so white and capitalist place

1:02like being in Australia or the United States. But thanks to you, I keep my feet in the ground and with my thumb up. Thank you for the Diyotina. Well, here you have it, friend. You're going to put the Diyotina in the door of the sun. Well, if it's me, the Diyotina, the Diyotina, I'm going to follow all the Diyotina, I'm going to write a pamphlet, and I'm going to export it to the Volvo, if it's me, the Diyotina. Fast, Diyotina, the Diyotina of the Kingdom. Fast, Diyotina, the Ministers. Fast, Diyotina. The Swiss, because of the Rodean. Diyotina, Diyotina, Diyotina, Diyotina, Diyotina. Everything Diyotina, if it's me, Diyotina. It's over, friend. Yes, sir. Let's eat. We have a president capable of leading the transition and the extreme right in the world, but unable to do it in his own country. A president who regulates half a million of immigrants in the U.S.

2:02who publish an impeccable article in the New York Times to explain why it's better to legalize them, but who doesn't get the fascist aura in Spain and who doesn't get to understand many Spanish that immigrants don't come to take away our packages, but to guarantee that tomorrow we can pay them. A president capable of planning the techno magnets that want to dominate the planet and destroy our democracies. Who manages to take advantage of Elon Musk and the telegram owner to announce that he's going to prohibit his debts to the younger ones. But he's unable to connect with the younger ones and with the electorate that goes to the right. Not only because of the intoxication through those debts, but because he sees his problems in corruption or in his government, but he doesn't see that his government puts solutions to his problems of living or precariousness. Obviously, it's easier to have good income outside of the house, because here the income is close to you and you have money. With your effects and if you don't see them, that is, we live in a country in which the vice president closes his telegrams with a corrupt, against the government. We live in a country with a toxic ecosystem of media and networks that live to end up with Dirty Sanchez,

3:03the tyranny, as he has called it, the cretin and Elon Musk. Obviously, the networks, as the owner of the X, are part of the problem of democracies because the democracies destroy them for their businesses and want to destroy them. They've said it without mistakes. All this is true, and that's why it's necessary a law of media and networks and apply the European directives that already exist to control the algorithms and punish the bubbles in order to avoid the media and networks following the polarization and manipulation of electoral processes for the convenience of the extreme right. There are already mechanisms of transparency and rendition of accounts in Europe that are not applying, although Sanchez announced that it would be. Now, the prohibition of access to networks of the smaller 16 years. Although prohibition is always problematic and there is the prohibition of access to alcohol to porn for teenagers. Today, it is published in a study of the ONG Plan International, which tells that eight of every 10 men suffer in networks. But we also know that in networks there are vulnerable people who find refuge, so there will have to find an intermediate point between the parental control, the status and education.

4:05There is more to come. There is no prohibition of freedom if there is no persecution of intoxication and in the creation of an intoxicated ecosystem for which the tools exist. If Derti Sanchez wants to face the political issue, there is not only that, but here inside, which imposes public and public networks of the common people, with an open code, which applies to the norms of transparency, European, and which offers a well-being that shows why democracy is better than its contract. This week, something unprecedented in the history of our democracies and it is that a technology has occurred in the telephone of millions of Spanish citizens to tell them what they have to think. So, Pedro Sánchez, the ingest of the owners of a social network that the tools have become in a kind of salvage, or this digital, or state-owned. He replied the message of the telegram co-founder of the Durov, who, following the Elon Musk owner of X, criticized the measure to prohibit the access of social networks for less than 16 years. The Government of Pedro Sánchez is impulsing new dangerous regulations

5:05that threaten your freedom in the Internet. Announced yesterday, these measures could become Spain in a state of surveillance under the pretext of protection. Here I explain why they are a signal of red weapon for freedom of expression and privacy. Durofemvion, massive and intrusive message to his users in Spain accusing Sánchez of wanting to censor and creating deco-controlled cameras by the state. We remember that telegram is today the most used message for the cyber delincuencia and the disinformation. Thanks to its political action of content. And that, it is imposed by complicity in Pedrástia, traffic of drugs organized and denounced by his ex-wife by violence against one of his children. Leave the technical legal letter in Sánchez. It is a signal that we were talking about. It was written in the same networks, the leaders of the PSOE. Before, Sánchez had already answered another attack of Elon Musk with that, Mars can wait for humanity. No. The average Sánchez is also content. To continue

6:05penalizing the executives of the platforms to keep content and legal. To become part of the state with the investigations to Grog, Tiktok and Instagram. But the most generated debate is the prohibition to the minorities, something only approved in Australia and France. Pelea, who is also being introduced against Tiktok. Tiktok's executive design of Tiktok is infringing the law of digital services. This is the opinion of the commission after a minucious investigation. Of the 170 million users of this platform in Europe, most are children and children. They use it at night between 4 and 5 hours in the platform. Europe could take Tiktok up to 6% of its annual $10,000,000,000 euros. Open Eye, also in front of all over the world by homicidio culposso or incite to suicide of adolescents such as Adam, 16 years old, who took his life after maintaining long conversations with ChatGPT about his intention of suicide. Would you like to apologize

7:05for what he has done to these good people? Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Unfortunately, everything that has happened should happen for what his families have suffered. That said, in 2024, Mac, Zuckerberg, was of micro, of stone, in half of a room of the United States full of families that suicide had a mental health problem, even sexual exploitation by using Facebook and Instagram family. By the way, I didn't think of any way. Meta, if for the first time cause addiction or not, will mark one day and then with this phenomenon, strategy to see what happens with social networks is something that is very striking. And it's just the beginning of which is called at the moment the addiction that provokes. 1,600 people of 350 families and 250 districts of 40 states have presented a macro-demand against the addition of general networks of Meta and Zuckerberg. So today we analyze

8:05what was called the digital digital chip or geringue of a generation but also drugs for adults. About how the network, the AIA and the opa algorithm controlled by mega-corporations have more and more in a world hooked on the screen. A collaboration with SomosConnexion, the telephonic operator who works to combat the tyranny of the big platform. And we really put free to these industrial companies, technology, that are... We have to put this industry that is basically absorbing the brain of our teenagers. Yesterday on the night of the radio in Barcelona, the director of the poverty series, to pick up the first cultural personality of the year. We talk about two weeks ago. And with it, we started this analysis that with Carlos del Castillo, private specialized in digital rights and social implications of the technology that works for our social media daily. Carlos, Good morning. What do you think about the provision of

9:07social media? Well, for a part, I think it's been a long time since we have all the negative impacts that social media have. Not only on social media, but also on its brain, on its cognitive development. There are studies that have been evidently identified that using social media and an intensive use, every hour of social media that use perjudicate its brain. And it seems to me that, well, in the end, it has never been and that, I think, as a society, we are matured to face some of the debates that are going to get rid of this, as, for example, the economy of attention, which is, in the end, what is behind all this, and if we want, as a society, not to pay for digital tools, which has changed all massively and use the science cognitive and the neuroscience against us and to make us more vulnerable to the announcements.

10:07And from that front of Sánchez with the Oligarca we could say that he is doing it in a mature way. That is a more difficult question, because in the background it is very easy, now, to confront the Oligarca technology. It was more difficult, for example, when relations with the United States were less tense. These companies, in the end, have to realize that the most powerful of the United States are one of its most powerful economic sectors. They occupy, practically, the 30% of the financial value of the main indice-bursatile of the United States. So, now, that there is a confrontation with the United States, it is easy to attack them and, that is, one of the main economic sectors of the United States is doing it every year. But, well, we will also take advantage of it. Yes, on that macro juicio, called the Tobacco Moment, which we talked about before, that accuses the great platforms of making addicts to children and children with the infinite scroll, the automatic production of videos,

11:07the intermittent notifications, or the filters of beauty and realists. In addition, many other technical techniques to generate the addiction. What do you think it has? It is quite... It is quite interesting. Today, we are going to present the government in the Ministry of Ministers, we hope to propose for Spain. Yes. To propose for Spain. The plan of Sánchez incorporates five measures, there are some that would have to be regulated through that package of measures of the government. There is another that is negotiating right now in the Congress, which is precisely the one that includes the bet of the 16 years. I think it is possible, it is simply to imply a cultural change and also to imply to recognize that there is to establish structural changes for structural problems. Right now, we are delegating in the families that establish enormous families of how to use the mobile phone, for example, in the smaller ones.

12:07But this is very difficult, because if you take the mobile phone to a 14 or 15-year-old child and all his group of friends use it, in the end, it is an extra pressure of an individual decision for the families. It implies to establish a prohibition for every 16-year-old because, in general, nobody will use it. Therefore, the individual decision of the families is very simplified, but if one of your friends uses it, well, it is less drama than you can use it. Of course, but I think it has a judicial record. It is intent that the platforms have a limit. Tiktok and Snapchat were accused initially, in the United States, but they will reach a agreement, while Google takes the accusations and puts their investments in security. Yes, yes. I think the limit is possible to do it. It is complicated, technically, and adults we have to be aware that it will require sacrifices for our part. Because, we are going to have to testify that we have more than 16-year-old, we are the ones that we have more than 16-year-old. So, the platform that is preparing the government,

13:07sure that it is private, well, it is a debate that we will have later when we have the code of the platform forward, because, indeed, it has a few dangers about a state-of-the-art vigil that is there and that it will have to debate. The point is that, identify if the person who is looking is smaller or bigger. No, no. The objective is that it is not an artificial intelligence and that the platform that gives service never has access to the data. This is the objective of the government and, in addition, we have to remember, in this case, because it will come a lot of information from now on this tool, that it is not an idea of the government, it is not a thing that has been invented in the Ministry of Digital Transition of Digital Transformation, but it is an idea European, that arises from before this debate about the networks and the smaller ones, it is that we are not giving data through Internet and we lose any access to it. If I put a very simple example, right now, when you are going to drive a car to a country in Europe and the agency of Alquiler asks you to drive by WhatsApp. From what you have

14:08driven by WhatsApp, you lose the capacity of dominion about those data because that car already has an Alquiler car that knows what happens with your data in the future and how it will deal with it. The objective of this tool is to establish a system that tells you to that Alquiler agency of electronics. If this person has a car but you do not have it because you know your data and because you know where you live, nor any data nor have your photography or any data that that company is not going to drive at that moment. Any prohibition is always a debate and worries us any prohibition of freedom, but for the families or the ones the prohibition seems not necessary. We are very positive that the focus of the debate of the new in the production of the smaller in the networks and in the digital environment, we are totally in agreement and totally aligned. For the families that we have contacted, André Oleh

15:08a few days ago, who did we listen to? A few days ago, Maria Jijón, mother of a 12-year-old and president of free adolescents of furniture. She has tried a family association that took from 2023, and she has tried to put the money into the bags for the smaller and as she said, it depends only on the decision of the parents. So, will you be satisfied with the government's announcement? Yes, even with but first, because it is not the first time that today the cinema singer that later does not end up materializing. We have a new measure, and we do not say it is a new measure. This was already planned in the previous project of the idea of the protection of the smaller in the digital environment. Second, because it is the expectation of seeing that there is an effective data verification system that can not be skipped and that the platforms are really obligated to implement it. And for this, it is necessary that there is an organization and control regulation and that can work in the platforms that do not work. And third, because they think it cannot be a isolated measure,

16:08but it has to come accompanied by others. We defend, for example, educational centers and furniture free in the same way that are free of adults. And we also defend that it is an education that respects the recommendations of Spanish education of Pediatría, right? Zero screens of zero to six. Maximum one hour and even ten to twelve. And maximum two hours from thirteen years. But the question that arises cannot be counterproductive, leaving the kids totally in the margin of the work of a basic tool that will be hung and present in their lives. Of course, but as they explain from essential and mobile they do not only have to go parallel to educate in the good use of the screens. The families have opted to delay the entry of the smartphone, which also means, of course, to delay access or social networks, and that they do not imply in any case that they do not educate, and that they are taught much more things about the digital environment, but without the device in hand. Which, priori, you can be complicated, but with examples,

17:08I think you understand better, right? To teach them to drink alcohol, it is not necessary to put a bottle in hand, that we teach them education with examples on the street. We can do the same with social networks. Maria does not remember that the kids are not stupid. What we see is that, as much as you explain, and the effects, and all the situations that are produced in social networks, with specific examples, well, most understanding because they delay that access, right? And they understand much better, that they are protecting and that it is not a question of prohibiting prohibiting, but a question of protection. Of course, but then the other melon, and the other one, because, how do you explain certain things to your children? And then, you see you, every day, hooked on a screen. Maria told me that, creating the association is also generated changes in the parents and mothers, which form part of it. Well, we have also made our reflection about the use of mobile, and, for example, we must use it a lot less, right? So, within the association, we have our own

18:09normal between meals, right? Well, not to use multiple screens that take us to the positives, nor to the rooms, that we must not mark our daily but, at the same time, it is a tool of use and that we do not prohibit of being connected with other people. That is, to give an example, to your creatures and be consequent. Exactly. The same as from associations, like yours, they ask for the government. More protection and less double measure, or double... Well, sometimes we see things that do not have a lot of sense, while it is said that it is going to protect you on the other hand, it is induced to make a responsible user when it is known that it is not possible, right? Because of its own neural development. So, we have made less normal clear, effective and efficient and that it is implemented as possible. Less news on the Internet and more facts. I really like that, Andrea, thank you. Ah, you too. Normal clear, effective and efficient, which is an logic, but this is how it is done.

19:09It is possible, really, implement that prohibition. And in a sense, it is said that we see how it is the current phenomenon. The minor steps in front of the screens a average of 4 hours a day, according to the annual study of the App of Parental Control Custodio, based on a survey more than 1,600 families in five countries, including Spain. The daily use of social networks of children and adolescents in our country has grown 15% in a year, up to 77 days. Tiktok is its social network 15 minutes a day, and YouTube is the first video platform with 43. The use of chatGPT has passed 9% to 30% in only one year. The adolescents use it not only for babies but as a therapist. Prohibiting the networks is the end of the road or just the beginning. It is technically effective. We are going to ask Marta Gefranco, more known as Teclista in networks, journalist and activist expert on Internet and digital platforms and author of the book the networks are ours. Marta Gefranco is

20:09a little bit here. Again, welcome. Thank you. Today, despite what we just heard, you share the post of the prohibition. In an article in the jump, you said that prohibiting the networks is a better remedy than the disease. Why? Well, because the networks are something very broad, right? The networks, undoubtedly, are something toxic in networks, but the networks are also what allows us what allows us to hear this program or the networks right now in the recent times it is the only place where you can enter the activity of the trains, which is how you are working, what do you have? Or the networks are also the only place where you can enter many things, which you need to know to participate in the social life. So, have you made a couple of comparisons between analogies, between the networks and the alcohol, and I think it is a bit questionable because no one can sustain that alcohol is positive, no one can sustain that is something that the number of alcohol is zero but social networks, besides,

21:09of course, as I insist, all the things that happen, there are many other things that you have to see with Acederi, to participate in the society in what you live, right? So, I think that you have to be very careful before excluding a significant quantity of the population from a very relevant part in the society that we live. Of course, you explained very well in the article that there are certain collectives, the GTV collective that, suddenly, find tools and references in the social networks, which can be good for the development of those adolescents, but we were also listening to all the problems that the parents saw, that live with them or those who commented Carlos, that is to say, there are number of studies, although in your article, you say that you have to put that in quarantine, but there are many studies, one, I mentioned it today, that talks about all the suffering of things that occur through the networks. Yes, I do not have any doubt that there is suffering to things

22:09that occur through the networks, but there are also positive consequences, or relatively positive for the people who are there, as I said, who are listening to us now through social networks of this program. What happens is that we do not talk about the adults if we are not talking about the smaller ones, to protect them from the information. Okay, then, a greeting to a 15-year-old who is starting to listen to you. We have to think about it. Obviously, it is not the same. Some of the 7-year-old who is from 15, we would have to think about where the age is, etc. I insist I do not have special affection to these large companies, but I think we have a real problem all over the world, not only young people. So, this provision of, well, as we are not able to free ourselves from the digital salvage which is called Pero Sanchez. Because we are not putting all the measures that we can put to regulate it and to put all the other things that are happening for the rights of all the citizens. We are going to explore the young people. It seems to me a way

23:09of not assuming the real responsibility that the government and institutions have in the regulation of the social networks. And simply, penalize a part of the society creating them from them. Why does it matter? For you, it would be the model. The model passes to apply the regulation that there is. If we have a fairly large body that is already in the European Union that is not applying, and that in fact is thinking about discharging. You know, the GDPR, which is the regulation of this, so we have to accept cookies every time we enter a web. It has sufficient tools to end up with this business of data, of privacy, which is what is in the base of the model of capturing our attention in the field of all this. It is not applying. And in fact, it is now fighting in Europe to discharging it if it is still a few minutes of control and privacy of the companies. In that framework, instead of continuing pushing there, now we decide that, well, we are going to renounce to counter those companies

24:09and we are going to prohibit that a part of the city entered. I think the model is insisting regulation, insisting in more education and in more construction of alternatives. You can't be counting this battle with oligarchs or oligarchs, exclusively from Twitter, which is what is being done, but it is not. We have to invest in digital digital technology in the future, so that it is a digital space where we can do all that good that we do in the social networks now. In a very much more. In that we are totally agree. I also do not follow Judit Membrives and Jurenz, a specialist in technology and power in the FB and some rights and mother of two teenagers. For you have the sense to prohibit the use of more accompanying the prohibition of education? No, no. So, I agree with a companion of education, but I agree with what I commented on the partner, Marta.

25:09We have significant macro-normative both on the European level and on the European level. As for learning or more, these social networks and then I also worry a little this social networks are this. So, we have alternatives to these social networks. And not even the own presidents who will be announced in these alternatives. Then we also have a foundation of all critical thinking in schools. Obviously, I agree with education, with introducing much more technological perspective, but I worry a lot that the debate continues to continue producing users and not people with critical technology or even producers of technology. But we are taking to how the children and children from the 16th will become users.

26:09And then I also wanted to point out a topic that happened yesterday. And while we are thinking about improving according to social networks, Google is doing a lot of things in all our states. And there, there are spaces where you can see things. And I would like to also explain a experience just 20 years ago. When I was 14 years old, I felt for the first time in a group of basketball clubs. And I want to look for the way of social networks open the door and, for me, the most problematic to this verification of the internet that we don't know how to do it. Because yes, there are initiatives like the European passport that has been

27:09closed for this year. And the passport that the Spanish government had to be in the past and we continue to do what cannot be done. Anoncios grandiloquentes, while you are still doing contracts with Google or with Palantir. Carlos, do you want to say something? Yes, I, especially, the fact that I think super interesting, the contributions of Judith and Martí that they think they are very at the point of the issue. Because I think that we, as citizens, should be very vigilant, of course, in a way that is the culmination of the economy of the attention. This means that technology points more developed than we have ever in the history of humanity to extract our data, to take advantage of our abilities, to sell us anoncios. That is what is being compared as tobacco. That platform that seeks

28:09to make us addicts so that we spend more time there, not internet or networks. And, of course, of this type of platforms or even prohibiting them from termination. Because here, nobody is talking that, for example, you can't use internet from an computer that is situated in the living room of the house. If not allowing not to give to children a mobile phone that is now converted by companies in the definitive of the economy of the attention. And, that is taking them in the kitchen. It is generating a lot of problems. Which has nothing to do with closing completely the use of networks. If not, do not enter in the logic. That is what they seek in these platforms. One hour of cocaine is good. And then, wait, the brain of the smaller

29:09can gestionate that only has a hour of cocaine or tobacco as citizens that this is what is pursuing a total prohibition of networks that, effectively, would not have a sense. We want to ask for concrete tools because the European Union has some measures in the manga. The digital letter is to say the app that will make sure the majority in the mobile and that the right could be operated in all the end of the year. A tool in which the platform does not know anything more if it is the majority and the validator does not know what platform connects you Judith, do you think a verification system seems effective? Well, we should see how it will implement and about what it will work. Because, for me, the main concern is that, although it can be a European system, we are not citizens in the matter of data centers.

30:09For example, then, if at the end all that information will end being in infrastructure of other countries or other companies, we can have a few of our problems that we have now in relation to sovereignty. Marta, do you however say that this system can eventually end with the privacy of all the citizenship. Why? Yes, because it is what Judith said, that we do not have the ability to control everything that happens with our data. The European law is that in other countries or people in other countries presidents with orange hair that decides not to respect any type of equality. And we do not know what will happen. There is something that we have learned in all the history that the only safe data is the data that is not registered. Because, once you register it, you will see what will happen. So, obviously, you have to wait for the small letter to see if this accreditation is going to do. Obviously,

31:09it is more safe and safer. We have to see what happens. But, open the door. It is problematic. Speaking of open tools for your parents. In Denmark, for example, you want to accompany the prohibition with the promotion of public and socially responsible. That is, there is alternative, real, effective, good to all the bad. Judith? Yes, of course. For example, we have the examples in relation to the tools we use in services for the cloud. There are very powerful tools and, despite it, the vast majority of people continue to prefer to use tools of that company that starts by hei, and that I don't want to give it to the public. I keep insisting that, for me, the problem is that the design of interaction, as we know it, as we interact, is very determined by a concrete ideology. It has come from a concrete ideology

32:09from a concrete ideology. Apart from being able to put certain parts, which is what I think is planning right now. We also have to reflect a little bit and, really, we want to continue with those dynamics of designing any interaction platform with that. And then, we have other problems in relation to this, which is still what we commented before, the sovereignty, and the fault in general of all governments, except some concrete in Europe, to stand for proper tools, not only from a perspective of sovereignty, but also how we really want to create these tools. And I think as a society, we have not participated in the debate of how we wanted the furniture, the networks, none of all these digital infrastructures we use in our day-to-day and that we really now have the opportunity to do it.

33:09We also have other tools that can be very wonderful, bots like ChatGPT, CharacterAi, or Clot, were part of the day-to-day of the less, of course, with films, as we already know, Carlos would have to put this also. Well, it's a very interesting question because, of course, if you look in the scientific evidence that there of how social networks have impacted the massive social networks and platforms of the economy of attention. Because it is that, I think, that the debate has taken place. They have impacted the cognitive development of the less. Well, one can be asked how it can impact the fact that the less are used to use a tool that gives you the right absolutely at each point of your speech. And how it can affect your ability to socialize or your ability of that in the real world someone will present arguments that their ideas sometimes are not adequate. But that is

34:09something that will never happen with artificial intelligence. What happens with a less that takes eight hours chatting with a machine that gives you the right always. This is an idea that the answer can be a change of the people that we don't know our cognitive development has not happened with this tool, compared to the people that, yes, it happens. It is that impact of not having grown natively with the tools to find them and sometimes not knowing how to handle them. Because we are already saying this is not just less. This is all about us. Emelene is the first Love Sense AI-2 to give you company. The girl does not exist. And the people love her. She has more than 500,000 followers. She is called Tana. She has 25 years old. commitment for an event in the lower abdomen in a flash. Metas about her

35:09names and her anxiety stares ל� guiding Her primary Facebook Facebook Facebook How to sign applications When direct To the system that perpetuates the culture of the diet amplifies audio-censorship speech the genocidio in gas and the repression of the ice is a dystopic use of artificial intelligence to generate false profiles of knots, its plantations and other more dangerous traps of our networks. And the question of Judit, how does that relationship between the algorithm, the application of artificial intelligence, and the platform? Do you think that this mountain is a qualitative jump in its capacity to perpetuate sexism or racism or clasimism? I think it's a topic of scale, mainly, in the final, yes, it's a qualitative jump, but in scale, it does not change any of those structures of power and oppression that we already had.

36:11And in fact, for example, now with everything that came out in relation to the generative diet that denotes knots, the knots of knots that we call here, it's already two years ago, in fact, under the three years ago, at the end of the year, under the Presidency of Spain in the European Council, we were insisting on the civil society that the regulation that was being planted of artificial intelligence was not including all these new applications that could arise and it was putting a legislative part, and that it was necessary to see what systems could be prepared for this type of tools. Well, two years later, we have this wonderful functionality to put a name of GROC, which now is also from Pago, on top of it, it is not that they have removed it, but that they have put it from Pago so that it can allow it to continue to grow. So I also wanted to take advantage of explaining this a little,

37:14that traditionally to the collective that we come from the activism of cyber feminism, or digital rights, we don't know how to listen to them when there are discussions, or we don't know how to take them, as if we were the bricks of technology, that we don't have to know about all this, and we came to announce that these types of things could happen, not because we know more, but because we understand the digital environment and we understand how it works, and above all we understand the businesses which is what we investigate more generally. The organization of Bulimia Project, that has been documenting how the network impacts people against food industry, asked for three years ago, to various artificial intelligence models, images of perfect bodies, and almost half were very realistic and were sexuality. Marta, the women are the perfect victims of the day. Yes, but if we put the TV and see a project, or we are going to the cinema,

38:16we are also going to see those bodies. Yes, I think it's a bit more there, and that we are being a bit technophobic, and being the last technological game, to detect the problems that are given in society in many other ways. There is bullying, there is racism, there is normativity, there is a lot of things that happen to many social levels. Of course, Marta. And not only in the networks, where there is also, for example, Karnekruda. Yes, yes. And many other things that are also very common. I agree with what you are saying, but it's true that it is a massive intoxication tool, that is, the power of virality that the social networks have, they did not have it in previous media. No, no, no, no, no. But there are many things. For example, I had tried other studies, and I have already tried several, which came out yesterday of a Ministry of Defense Ministry, that says that the number of teenagers has a program related to internet and a program related to internet such as that they interfere in their daily life, that they use too much, that they are hooked, they have lowered the levels of 2019, prepandemia. That is, it is better to help them to leave the streets,

39:18not to say anything that they did, that the people, because they have less hooked. What I say with this is that there are many things that happen and that life is much more complex, that they simply have that attitude. And we have to expand the look and not to be able to relate, because it has been a very easy way, because there are many studies, there are many things that happen, but this is what it is said, that the relationship is not causality, that two things happen at the same time. And without doubt, there are many problems that are suffering the teenagers, but it is a bit like that, easy, to get rid of all the social networks and think that proving its access we have already removed all the others. Carlos, you have told you in the diary.es that thanks to the infiltrations of old employees and periodistic investigations, we know that corporations know these negative messages about them. How did they perpetuate them? And what tests exist at the same time? Well, the messages and the effects. This is the problem,

40:19they are the first ones that realized that all these negative effects were happening in their own platforms. And in fact, these evidence that certain workers who had responsibilities for example in Meta collected a documentation and were able to present the United States that is now being used in the macro of the demand that you have commented as proof that they already knew that they were doing that damage. That's why I insist a lot in separating this type of corporations from the internet, because it is different. And they already know that they are different. That is, they have been for many years. They have touched me many times to tell it from the diary with a lot of frustration, because they were serious issues. And that many times they were away from the public. A great corporation that has a massive tool that they use absolutely all over the world that knows that it is producing a series of damage that knows that every hour of use

41:19is associated with greater propensionality or depression. And it doesn't do anything. That's why my interest in separating both debates and the internet from social media and insist that there is something to do because the state was the same only benefits the great platforms. If you try to do what you are doing and others, we are all aware that we have to control these platforms and the mechanisms that they use. Right? Yes, yes, of course. We are aware. And well, I have a title that is viralized a couple of years ago that talked directly about that is, I mean, I consider that it should not be a private infrastructure, this type of networks and I also insist that despite the fact that capitalism is low and has ended up seeing thanks to its processes of capital accumulation and so on.

42:19In these macro-gigants, technological ones, well, if I, for example, could follow the 15M that I was very surprised thanks to someone who pushed to emit in direct the different assemblies through the network we knew like Twitter, right? So, I think that we should also be clear that it has never been a public space and that maybe we should be able to become in a public space or what mechanisms that regulations to the children, to the children, to be able to fall, right? So, for me, the reflection would be a little that. And what is the answer to that question that you just planned? Well, I think it has to be an auditable infrastructure I think that everything that is the additive design that is not just the design in the platforms of social networks, but that it is a little

43:20the trend in general, in everything that is digital platforms, video games, platforms of streaming, etc. And that we can put the code to this type of systems, because we can define how this interaction has to be designed and then I think it is very important to have transparency of how they work the different algorithms and the different artificial intelligence that are used to moderate content as to make recommendations to make this hyper-personalization that we have been basically and will return to the common. Europe has its mechanisms, we have already said several times in the program that we are applying, because this lack of control is possible, thank you very much for the pressure that these corporations have, institutions. According to the European Observatory of companies, the 10 main technologies of the world invested 151 million euros in 2025 only to prevent

44:20Brussels from taking decisions against its interests. Pay attention, a superior to which they spent the pharmaceutical sector, the automotive or the financial together. Carlos, this is a opportunity to operate the technology in Brussels. Well, it has a lot of resources, thanks to great economic resources. For example, a very serious aspect, but it will be in many occasions, is that as you can see, they present parts of the law, I am going to simplify it a lot, it does not work exactly like that, but we are also going to put in bureaucracy in detail. They present them as parts of the law in slow-moving something that interests a certain political So, in those slow-moving data, they introduce details that benefit a lot of their business, and that they can create these legal spaces that have been created, but in such a way, this is not the only

45:20measure. For example, it is also documented that they organize protests against the measures that they are good at. Not protests of them, but they organize users, try to generate a technique that is called Astroturfing, which is artificial, which means fingering that an cooperative that comes from above is to generate a kind of image of social repuls towards this kind of normative. All of those are tactics of lobby, which are funded directly with the accounts of these companies. If you are in a bad mood, you are starting to break out. The French police here in Paris has recorded the offices of the social network of Elon Musk, for manipulation of algorithms, extraction and legal data, and also for all the European democracies reactions. We listen to the Minister of

46:20Consumbo Palo Boutindouille, from Paris, there the French police is investigating the artificial intelligence of X, for the diffusion of the negative and deep-fakes of sexual character. I believe and shared at least three million sexualized images, 23,000 of them in only 11 days of December. A process of the European Commission and in Spain the Ministry of Infancy was aimed at investigating it. Yurid, this is a realist, is viable, is investigated in the artificial intelligence of all this? Yes. But we will probably need more resources. What was said at the end of the work, we are in front of corporations that have millions of users who would be if we were in ranking, then apart from what is necessary that the efforts have been coordinated and that Europe decides what it means if it continues to be a market or if it really wants to

47:22build its alternative, we also need the civil society and the researchers who are pushing this issue, we are also financing it, because we do not have access to financing and at the end it is a counter-agorance, we are talking about the companies that support the rich, you just have to look at the list of forms and you will see that from the first 10, 7 are companies of this technical sector with concrete, social networks, then I think that we really have to think that this is a counter-agorance and that if we want to have something to say, we must coordinate better and above all, to finance this type of proposal in this type of actions.

48:22Whenever you do that comparison of the civil society, remember that the one who won was David. I tell myself in Vibres and Jorens, we leave you there, precisely to your wishes, thank you very much, I really like the shirt Make Hip-Hop Antifascist again. The rapper Masta Cuba, who promised to say hello to her. Very good, a very big hug. Just like that, bye. More to continue judicial or read relatively this platform, we want to see what we can do in the future the civil society to achieve a better internet. And for that we wanted to hear Merce Botella, who is the coordinator of SomosConnexion and provides the program to grow in a world of screens. Merce Bon dia, Cruz Díaz. Hello, good morning, Cruz Díaz. I am glad to see you again. Since SomosConnexion, you defend that the half of the government are a reaction to a sector that has not wanted to self-regulate, but we can trust the sector after what we have analyzed. No, it is evident that we have not had here a very interesting participation

49:26of people who have not explained very well. We can not be too much of the politicians in general, that is, they are tactical, political contributions that also vary a little. Yes. And what would be your opinion? What is the most positive alternative to those tactical announcements and a so toxic and manipulative ecosystem? Our position is always that it is better not to prohibit, to prohibit, in all ways, if we feel that all the family movement, the citizen, society, in general, feels a certain relief that speaking, putting this in a political agenda that is in the middle, it feels less rare asking for this at home, as it is normalised, think that the networks also have negative impacts, which is very little, it was very rare when you said these things.

50:28And really, the family movement has taken to the political agenda, all this will be a reclamation from the families. There are evidence that this is not good and we are alone. And in addition, they use it in the schools, that is, we are fighting against, that is, we can not do at home what we want to do, because society does not allow it. I think that the prohibition, as temporarily perhaps, can be good, because put in a limited agenda, not for always, but for this moment of so much confusion, of so much information, in the families there is no sufficient clarity of all the information that lies in this digital complexity, and you have to take decisions each day at each moment with your children, right? That is why we are in connection, we are only giving it a service of internet connection and mobile phone, but in addition, we offer and collectives.

51:31That is, we mobileize collectively to give support to a program like this, which puts us a little clarity on what to do. Thank you very much because as you have come out, the program is very interesting about this topic. And then I want to ask you for those who are not listening to the families that have doubts about this debate. How to put yourself on the day, that is, from the civil society, what tools can we put into practice to, well, redesign this digital architecture as toxic as possible? I think it is fundamental. We have to go out from the individual, and we cannot face the social challenges that we find. We have to transcend the individualism that has led us to capitalism. And as individual people, we cannot do anything. We can only do it in collective. We are one of the many options, but there are many entities and there are many proposals to be able to act in a collective way because, individually, you cannot process everything. And this is our proposal.

52:32A proposal that has already appeared in other programs. That is why I recommend that you listen to some of the previous versions of Somos Connection in Carne Cruda. Marta, I will be back with you. How is that public internet that we have talked about several times already in the program, a public and democratic internet that is not dominated by large magnets? How does it work for us to give us an idea of this wonderful utopia? And if it is possible, also to go back to the Internet. Well, do you agree with that? Yes, yes. Of course, it is possible. It has to do with financing the development of alternative software and infrastructure so that those software books are laid out, that is, within data centers. And it is very important to say that it is not only public, but it is common. We already have tools, obviously, not to mention it, but this is all the software that allows the software to be of all and of no one. Yes. Because if what we create is a large of our public, it is better not to like it. I want to tell you that they send Pedro Sánchez or the one that I have to send from Turno, it is not always the best idea. But internet, the way that there are internet from the beginning,

53:34that is, this architecture distributed between many universities, research centers, and so on. It already has, technically, the answers of how to make a network decentralized, where there is no nuclear power, which is not, or these large companies are re-centralizing the internet, saying that everything goes through them, but there are ways, already developed techniques, that we have something that is, well, of all, that is collaboration between companies, bigger and smaller, more or less responsible, we hope that the best of the most responsible between government, between citizenship, between hackers, and between all kinds of people. It is about that from the government, if they want to help in this, financing, all that ecosystem, that free software and open code so that there are many more alternatives that work better, and that we have more access to them. And, on the other hand, if we are going to do that, we are going to leave at the same time, as you have said today, to finance more effectively to the technological ones. I mean, it does not make sense that it is a money there to give a hacker to pay his thing,

54:35while he is giving thousands of millions to Google to buy the cloud, which is using, for example, all the students in the public school. Yes, all the reason. One thing that bothers me a lot, is that in this program, it is said that many of the tools already exist, that they have already created them, and then they never put them in the work. And what do we do? Well, I don't know. I mean, what is going to happen to Sánchez, the program of the program of... Carlos, we don't want to be... there is no way to say it, there is no way to say it, there is no way to say it, there is no way to say it, there is no way to say it, there is no way to say it, that they are legitimate, so they are based on free software and in a good way they don't use it. Because we have not done it additively, because our money is in the platforms of the economy of attention. That's why we don't have incentives, because what stimulates the center of the brain with advanced techniques of neuroscience,

55:35is on Facebook, Instagram, and social networks, and the others, because they are not designed with that reason. That's why, this is starting to move, for me it's a good signal, and what we have to do now is have this wide debate, of how we want it to be done, responding to the artificial intelligence. This is a very difficult question, because we have to take into account that artificial intelligence is not born in the Internet good, that you said to yourself, it is born in this situation, and it is a technology that, it would not have been able to do. So it's complicated, it continues to be a very powerful tool, and I don't recommend people to use it, of course not, but you have to have that digital advertising in terms of artificial intelligence to know which are also their risks. And here, unfortunately, I don't want to be an algorithm but I have to remember one thing. The artificial intelligence

56:35we have had until now, the best artificial intelligence we have ever had, because OpenAI is already announced that it will be incorporated. It means that it will be incorporated from the attention economy, artificial intelligence. It is something that San Alman, his CEO, had always denied doing it, because the same thing was known that it could be a combination of that strong inquiry for the imagined tool, but we can't say that if what you are saying is your base of data, if it is what you are saying, or because you want to try to buy something, or that we have determined behavior that benefits to your announcements. It is a reality that is absolutely horrible, thinking about it, and that we already have OpenAI here and it will be announced that it will be announced in 10 years that we are having this same debate

57:35and that is why it is necessary to act now as it is. Sanchez, listen, the people have it in the tools of the fight. Another recommendation for Sanchez and for everyone, I can't leave to recommend the big notification of Amiga Date cuenta and the internet series in this search to recover our attention economy. Droga de la Buena. Droga de la Buena. As well as the articles and thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We will continue that we have found a refuge. Pass it. Don't be afraid. The black house is safe. The black house is a palace for dogs without pedigree. Here it does not arrive.

58:35It puts the love in it. It saved the press. From the avenue. It is not a set. It is a space. For the immense. The power of the cow. The black house. It is a palace. It is a stone. It is a hole. This black house, which is the independent of the radio, does not reach the voice of its love. If you want to protect it, you really need to make producers to make programs like this, or like tomorrow. Tomorrow we will go back with a program at the end of the afternoon that will present to us by yesterday and the director and director of Teatro Sergio Perimmenceta

59:35talking about the multiverse and palace for dogs without pedigree as we are. It is already completely all the entrance thank you for joining us for being our home. It is not a mystery that is going to take tomorrow we will see then Cheers from the audience and that the radio is going to be accompanied.