Coach Chris Bennett on Starting to Run—and Getting Better

0:00Let me introduce you to something I'm really excited about. FICY FIT Fall Edition, a seven-week program that combines structure running and strength training in the same program, built to progress together, week by week, all supported by a community of like-minded women and a feisty coach. Registration is open through September 6th. The program runs September 7th to October 26th. For all the details into register, click the link in the show notes. Welcome to another Mother Runner, your best running friend and podcast form. We do all the talking even on the up hills. I'm Sarah Bowen-Shay, joined by co-host Tish Hamilton. Hello there, Tish. Hello Sarah. I am talking to you today from beautiful Lake Placid, New York, one of your happy places, I think. I know and I am just so impressed that you brought your microphone with you and your headphones. What's your phone ahead? I tell you what, coming up to Lake Placid for two weeks

1:08with all the different activities here, speaking of packing, right? Because you get we've gone for bike rides, gravel bike rides, we go on runs, we go on hikes, and we go on podcasts. There's just so much to pack. But did you drive or fly? We drove. I have two dogs, so the dogs are with us. Yes, and it's an epic drive. I know you have done a lot of epic drives this summer. Yes. You'll know what I'm talking about. It takes two days. It takes us two days. We drive my sister lives in Reston, Virginia. We drive up there and stay with her for a night and then do the second part. We're reverse that, obviously going back home. Yes, and when you say we, you mean you and your partner Rick? Yes, my partner Rick. My partner Rick was super excited to come here. We've been here before just to Lake Placid, the Lake Placid area. We're actually staying in Wilmington, which is the town just past white face, then the

2:14ski mountain. Okay. And and some other dear friend of mine, my fast running teacher friend. She and her husband had come up here. Their son works here at the High Peaks Information Center. And they have opened. They told us about a new trail, the Adirondack Rail Trail. Do you know that? I do not know. I tell me that. You don't know the rail trail. It's right. It's right outside. I mean, it's like one or maybe one and a half miles from Mirror Lake in Lake Placid. It's 34 miles one way. So yeah, it's beautiful. Beautiful rail trail. And it just it finally, I think parts of it opened in 2023 and the whole thing is open now. So anyway, my partner heard about that. He's like, yes, we're going up there. I want to ride on that. So sure, let's do it. It's a break for us because I'm living Savannah, Georgia. It's been hot and humid since June. And it gets tiresome. So

3:20coming up to Lake Placid is a real nice treat for us weather-wise. We've had a couple of just like pictures or postcard, early fall, low humidity, sun, glinting on the assable river. And it's just been really, really, really lovely. Oh, so nice. And so you did a gravel ride this morning, I understand. Yes, yes, yes, we did. So my friends did the whole trail, whole gravel ride, which is 68 miles well, round trip. We're not quite up to that yet. So we're doing section biking. So we can handle 20 miles at a time. So we go out and back to Ramy and then we'll go to the next part, the frog to the next part, do that. And then we're going to attempt to finish it before we go back to Savannah. That's very methodical of you because the thing that I think when I go somewhere

4:20where I don't live is that I think, well, I don't get to see this every day. So it's okay if I repeat it because, you know, so it's not like something I do Monday, Wednesday, Friday, every week. And it's like, oh, okay, I did it Monday and Tuesday. That's okay because next week I'll be back home and I can't do this at all. This is very true. In fact, we did repeat a section today just because of the timing was working. And I thought, that's exactly what I thought. It doesn't matter if you repeat because it's a pretty new experience. And it is so gorgeous. Yeah. It's been really a treat. And I know you have also been traveling. I have. So I jetted out to New Jersey once again, this time with my son, John, who goes to school out there at Montclair State. And he had a very, very, very exciting opportunity. He got hired to do a one night show with two huge Broadway legends

5:21that being Sutton Foster and Kelly O'Hara for folks who know their Broadway stars, both Tony winners. And if you know, if you watch TV, Sutton Foster was in younger and Kelly O'Hara has a reoccurring character on the Gilded Age on HBO Max. So anyway, so he, Kelly and Sutton do these one night shows that are based on Carol Burnett and Julie Andrews shows from back in the 60s. And they have a full orchestra on stage with them. And it's, I don't want to say it's a, I guess it's a review. I guess that's what you'd call. So they do kind of a pastiche of singing and dancing and, and, you know, different types of numbers. And so at each place they do it, you know, San Francisco Boulder, Red Bank, New Jersey, in this case, they hire, they have two male ensemble members and two female ensemble members. One of the male ensemble members is always the choreographer who's this guy Eric,

6:21who John worked with in Wichita this summer. So that's how John got hired for this. And then one of the women is Bridget, who is John's best gal pal from school. And then this other young woman from writer, University Savannah. And it was just an absolute thrill. It was a packed theater of the most avid theater goers. These people were just engaged and enthusiastic. And they did, they danced and sang with Sutton Foster for they being the ensemble, not the audience members. Gotta get my collective noun, right? John and his cohort, they dance with Sutton Foster for anything goes, the for which she won a Tony. And then they did Big D, which is, I don't know where that's from. It's kind of a cowboy type thing. And then the gals did a duet, just the two of them,

7:24which was exquisite. And then the ensemble came out again for a finale number where they sang and danced. And Kelly and Sutton were super gracious. They introduced the young people by Ann Eric, by name, told you know kind of what the deal is with them. And so that really got the audience engaged. And my gosh. And when so the first number that came out was anything goes. And I just tears start just streaming down my face the moment he gave one stage. And I mean, John always gives 100% and he found an absolute another gear that I don't think even he knew he had. And he was just giving it like it was just an absolute delight to witness. And he was so much in control. I mean, he really was, you know, just executed it perfectly, but he was literally ecstatic on stage. Like the energy coming off those young people was almost audible, let alone palpable.

8:31It was just amazing, just amazing. That sounds like such, first off such a great show to begin with. And opportunity for John, of course. And I also love what you said about the audience being super engaged because it just creates an electricity, right? And I'm sure that they feed off of as well the performers do, right? And it's so exciting to be in the audience when that, you know, symbiotic energy, you know, super upbeat. It's so fun. It's so fun. Yeah. And Kelly and Sutton are both very vibrant, very alive, positive people and known to be as such. So to see them in real life. And somebody afterwards a guy from the audience talked to John outside and said how he really loved the energy that the young people were giving. And he said that he thought it was even more so than what the stars were giving. And which did not please John, but he did not, did not show that.

9:32But he said that it was John said it was just so natural because it was impossible to not be that happy and alive, you know, while with these two women on stage. And yeah, it was it was amazing. And it was, it was just a wonderful opportunity. I was so glad I used miles to go out there. I stayed with John in his house. So it was very low cost. But I mean, it was even if I'd had to pay gobs of money, which I don't have, it would have been worth it. Yeah. It was just super special. And it just really felt like like it was the start of his true professional career. Right. Right. Because he's got one more year in college, right? He does. He just started senior year. Yeah. And so, and I mean, people were telling him that afterwards. I mean, Kelly O'Hara told him, you know, she said, I know I'm gonna see you on stage again soon. I mean, security guards are like,

10:35Hey, man, you were so awesome. You're totally gonna be back here again. And I just seeing young people is so life affirming. They just, they just have so much energy. And they're just so alive. You know, they're like, they're like, leaves on the trees in early spring. There's just so much promise and vibrancy in them. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Where do I feel like the leaves right about now? Yeah. I'm tired. Pretty tired. Getting kind of pale. So yeah, it was, it was a joint at Delight to behold. So thank you for asking me about it. So, and I know this is going to be a joy. We are talking today with Coach Chris Bennett about his brand new book. It is, this is about running. This is not about running. Coach Bennett is the Nike

11:37running global head coach and the familiar voice behind the guided audio runs on the Nike Run Club app, as well as the host of his own podcast called Coach Bennett's podcast. He's well-known for his upbeat philosophical and empathic coaching style that treats running as a mental and emotional practice as well as a physical one. Coach Bennett is a dad of three. Welcome to the show, Chris. Thanks for having me. I'm psyched to be here. So, Chris, Bennett, was that with me? You were talking to me, right? I was, I kind of jumped in there for a moment. I was suddenly realizing like, is my name Chris? Quite sure. We have the whole conversation pre-recording. Do you want to be Chris or Coach Bennett? You told me, Chris, you told me Coach Bennett. What do I call you? But Chris, okay. If it's a question of who I want to be, now that opens up a whole other story. So, can I pick anyone in history? All right, we're going to talk about who you are. Okay, okay. So, right now you're a, you are a former professional runner.

12:41He ran track and cross country and college and high school before that. Can you remember, can you take yourself back to when you first fell in love with running? How did you get started? Oh, when I first fell in love with running. Well, I had been running for a long time. I think trying to convince myself I was not in love with running. I think that was the beginning of the relationship was me. I don't know if it would be hard to get or just being a really terrible partner to running. I'm not quite sure which one it was. If running had the ability to dump someone, I think running would have dumped me. I was lazy. I was just a really lazy kid. I loved competing. And I was introduced to the sport as a team sport, which I think is really important. I was on cross country teams and track teams as a little kid. That was important. That's what kept me in the sport, basically, were teammates. It's a tough sport until you are okay with admitting how much

13:44you love it and why you love it and all of the other things that come with it. I really think running is like any other relationship. The difference is in this one, running always wants what's best for you. Running is kind of like a perfect partner. I think if there are issues in the relationship, it's not the running. It's the runner. For me, I wasn't willing to commit. I think I would rather be with basketball. Basketball is like, I don't want you. Stop calling me. This happened with a number of different sports, oddly enough. But I always came back to running. I always loved it. Just wasn't willing to admit it until I was in college. It was an epiphany I had right after Christmas where I was back at the track. I just done a workout. I was like a milder, like a middle distance runner. My girlfriend at the time was a true distance runner, 5K, 10K runner. She was

14:45walking off the track. The first workout for the Milders was like, I don't know, like six by 400 or something, 8 by 200. It was pretty short and fast. You can kind of cheat your way through that if you're not fit. You can't do that with 5K, 10K workouts. She came off the track and she had a rough workout. She looked at me and said, this BS that she had said it in its entirety has got to stop. I realized she was getting ready to break up with me. It was because I was dragging her down. I was making her worse. I was lazy. When she was hanging out with me and she had to run, there was more of a chance that the run wasn't going to get done because of me. It dawned on me. If I want to keep this relationship going, I have to change. Then I suddenly realized, wow, I'm probably letting down all the guys on my team because they can't count on me. They can't rely on me. I'm not doing the work I'm supposed to be doing. Then I think I realized, I don't want to be seen as that kind of a teammate. I don't want to be seen as that kind of a boyfriend either.

15:49I thought I'd fix something. It wasn't as hard as I thought. I think it was because I suddenly realized you actually love doing this. You've been telling this story to yourself for a really long time. It's like anything else. If you repeat the same lie enough times, you can even convince yourself that it's the truth. I had this realization that I actually love this sport. I would really love to be a better teammate. Literally the next day, I went on a morning run with my girlfriend. I hadn't gone on a morning run in a really long time. My entire relationship with running changed. She didn't dump me. I ended up marrying her. It works out really well. There we go. Happy ending. Happy ending. That's right. You'd have to bring her on to ask her. She may be like, all I had to do was be quiet. One day, I just had to be quiet. I could have broken up with them two weeks later. I don't know. How did you morph from being a high school teacher to the

16:52renowned running coach that you are now? I was a high school teacher and coach. That was my dream job. When I was 16, 17, I realized because I really was lucky. I had great teachers in my life that I came across. I had fantastic coaches that I came across. I really distinguished them from a lot of the adults I saw was that they weren't just as hard or harder than the adults that I saw. But they weren't empty or wandering around like they had a hole in them, like so many adults that I saw. I knew they were exhausted at the end of every day because I saw them at the end of every day. But they came back the next day, like filled back up. I thought it's because they're doing something that they believe matters and matters to them. I thought there's something there. So I knew I wanted to teach and I wanted to coach. When I was running for Nike post-collegedly, I was good, but I wasn't great. I was trying to make the Olympic trials, not the Olympics. As you can imagine, there's

17:55not a lot of money floating around for people that are trying to make the Olympic trials. There's not Wheaties wasn't lined up. We don't know your schedule, but we heard that you might be the 30th best myler in the country. We'd like to put you on the box. So I had to get a job. I worked in finance for seven years, but I was constantly putting in basically resumes to teach and coach. Specifically back where I went to school. I finally got the opportunity to do that. I went back. That was a real gift that I started by coaching kids, teenagers specifically, 14 to 18. There's a different responsibility with kids. I was really lucky to also teach because you notice things differently when you're with people day in and day out. Whether they're sitting in a chair in front of you in the first period world history for freshmen or whether they're coming back from a warm-up before a

18:58duel meet, you suddenly realize you've been really quiet today. What's going on? I took that responsibility really seriously. For me, the running was like a byproduct of everything else I got to do. It's not that I didn't take the running seriously. I absolutely took the running seriously. I just knew that if they left practice and they were just faster and could run further, I had failed. I also knew that if they were in a safe environment and they were open to being really vulnerable, which is tough at 14 to 18, that's how you can be your best because you hear all these like you know, we're cliches. You've got to give 100%, which sounds awesome. But if you give 100%, that means you're vulnerable because you're not siphoning off any percent to be on the defensive, to block punches. You have to be wildly vulnerable to give 100% to anything. So I know if I'm asking a 16-year-old kid to give 100%, the only way they're going to do it is they feel totally safe

20:00at practice. And they have to have enough guts to fail because if the goal's good enough, the odds are we're going to fail. That's just how it works. Things probably won't work out, which means you may get your heart broken, which means now you've got to be really courageous, which means I'm not just building runners. There's a lot more that has to go on to practice to achieve those things. So that was kind of where the philosophy or at least the foundation for how I coach started. And I'm eternally grateful that I started at that level because I think, and I'm biased, okay? I think high school coaches are the best coaches in the world. And it's because they have to introduce the sport to people. They have to guide people through a tumultuous four years. I mean, the example I always get if you imagine the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show with the suits on and the little, you know, the short hair singing, I want to hold your hand. That's freshman year. Four years later, they're singing Haltor Skelter, okay? They've got long beards, the long

21:03here. That's literally four and a half years. That's how long high school is. So you've got to navigate that with those kids who are now becoming adults and a lot of these kids by the time they're leaving high school, they're like elite athletes. And again, elite doesn't always mean time. It means just how smart they are about the sport. So if you can guide someone from showing up a practice with a pair of Chuck Taylor's on having never run to someone who's now placing at a national championship about to go run in college, that's extraordinary. So the coaches, the coach, the world's best athletes, they might not be able to introduce the sport to somebody. But a high school coach has to. So I was very lucky to start there. I love how you bring that kind of experience of introducing people to the sport, to the page in your book. And that conversation all-town that is very engaging and engaged with a person who is coming to it new. So talk to us a little bit

22:11about your tone and how you write in your voice that sounds so conversational. Yeah, well, thank you for noticing that. And I got to thank my editor at Day Street for letting me write that way. Because I knew it was not going to be a normal book. When I was first talking about it, it was important that I was only going to be working with people who realized what this was and what this was. And you know, right off the bat, I was like, this isn't a bunch of training plans. Like if you're looking for a bunch of numbers, like we're probably not going to have any numbers in there. That's number one. And number two, it should be conversational. I don't enjoy things that aren't, I think, back and forth. And even though granted I'm the one writing, I want the reader to be engaged. It's similar to the guided runs I do for the Nike Run Club app. I write all the scripts. And early on, you know, one of the, I don't know if it was rules or requests I had

23:15was that there isn't going to be a middle person. There isn't going to be somebody in between. I'm going to write them. I'm going to record them. I'll edit them with an engineer. But no one can get in between a coach and an athlete. If we suddenly have a translator in there, you know, or, you know, somebody with like the sensor button that's like, that maybe a little bit too soft. That maybe a little too aggressive. You're going to be watering down the truth. And there's no such thing. You can't water down the truth. It's either the truth or it's not the truth. And on top of that, I wanted it to be really human, which means if I'm going on a 15K run with you, I'm probably going to ramble a little bit. You know what I mean? This efficiency is not a word in my vocabulary that gets used very often. But there's also a rhyme and reason to it. If you think of some of the best runs you've been on, you don't remember a lot of the run, but you remember a lot of the conversation or you remember a lot of what you were seeing. It's not the, did I breathe in on every third stride? Did I breathe out on every fourth stride? We had such a great argument

24:16or we had such a great laugh. Those are the types of things that get you through a run. And from a coaching perspective, it really helps. I mean, you know, sometimes people will say, that was a really epic ramble you had in the middle of the struggle run. And I'll say, yeah, no, where did that come from? Or why did you do that? And I'll say, well, it got you through seven minutes of the run, didn't it? Like, you didn't know where it was going. And to be honest with you, when I wrote it, I didn't know where it was going either. I just knew we were in the middle of the run, where some people can tend to panic. And if I can get you to disappear and wonder, what is he talking about? Where, how is he going to, how is he going to wrap this story up? We can get through a thousand meters or two thousand meters. And that's what really happens out there on the run. And I used to do that when I was with the high school team that I had, you know, I could tell that it was very hot out. People were starting to panic a little bit. Like, can I really do this? And I 'd be like, I've got a story. And sometimes it would just be every line would be one line ahead

25:16of me making it up. I mean, but the point was I had to get them over this hill and within sight of the water fountain, because I knew if they could see the water fountain, I knew we were going to be able to stop for 30 seconds. We're golden. And what's amazing is just sometimes getting through those little bits, open up the rest of the run where I can accomplish this. And from again, from a coaching perspective, you never know which kid on the team and by kid, I mean, it could be a 36 year old or a 56 year old. It doesn't matter who's who's one run away from having confidence in themselves, believing like, Oh, I actually can do this. So I knew that everything was important sometimes. And sometimes the way to get through those important moments was to seemingly talk about the most unimportant things imaginable. So the title of your book, this is about running, this is not about running. Can you talk for a minute about that because I know it's one of your aphorisms?

26:17Yeah, it again started back when I was coaching kids and just the realization that in my time that I had with them, I had to prepare them for what was after practice. Like if I had done the original job, which was to make practice a safe space, okay, which allowed them the freedom to fail and to succeed and to go after great things and also come up short and realize, you know, I'm going to find another starting line. I had to make sure that when they left that they were prepared to take on what was waiting for them. And there's so much that you can learn during practice on a run in a race that you can take into the rest of your life. I mean, it seems odd that I bring up failure quite a bit, but I think if you're going to be open to success, success is dancing partners failure, you know what I mean? They're, you're not going to break those two up. They've been together forever. So you have to invite both. And the reality is that if a kid can realize that they can put everything into something

27:20and come up short and still come back again and that they can celebrate and look for small successes that they can compete with and not against the people around them. What a disaster would be if they didn't take this into the rest of their life. So it was back, I guess it was 2007. I started coaching. I was very upfront with the kids that that's a very big truck going by somewhere. Okay, prop. Hopefully carrying lots of my books somewhere. This is visualization. Let's make it happen. Manifest it. Manifest it. So, but it was one of those things where I realized that if I could give them the tools or the lessons at least that they could then internalize and take with them as they head into class and they're taking on a subject that maybe they're not that comfortable with. Or they're going to apply

28:23to a couple of schools. Even the school they really, really want to go to, but they were about to not apply because they were thinking, what if I don't get in? Will I be able to handle it? You know, to be able to be like, well, guess what? We put all of that into that season and we wanted to win states and we didn't. And you know what we did? We took some time off. We came back and were better for it. You know, like those are the types of things that I thought this is what it should be all about. Now, here's the cool thing. I like to win. You know, I mean, that's I think we all do. And I want the kids to experience success. I also know they perform better. If their lives outside of running were better because of running. So if they were more confident outside of this practice, if they were more courageous outside of this practice, if they had more self-worth, they could get out of relationships where they weren't being treated very well. When they come to practice, they're going to be better. So I realized that if you could take care of the runner, then the runner's better able to take care of the running. And it led to better performance,

29:26which is something that sometimes I think people don't pay attention to because a lot of times, people are like, oh, this sounds so. Oh, you're so nice. And you know, you're Mr. Rodgers or something like that. And I'm like, well, Mr. Rodgers would have been a rock star coach. I'll just tell you that much. And the reality is the performance was there. I mean, the team that I coached when I had left him is back in 2014. That was the best boys distance program in US history. And what was most satisfying was they all kept running. They're all still running today. It's all a part of their life. And it's not, they're all still running today competitively. Some of these kids are 30 plus years old. They're running because they have stressful jobs. And it's a way for them to deal with stress a little bit better. Or when they travel a lot, they're like, it's the best way to see a city. And I think this is why you ran from 14 to 18. It wasn't to have a really awesome personal best. That was a part of it. But the real reason is that this could be a lifelong sport for you that will help you for the rest of your life.

30:31Yeah, I really love that. And I love how that informs one of the aphorisms that is a title of one of your chapters, which is you don't need to run every day to be a runner every day. And so many people have struggled with this idea of like, I'm not a real runner. I love that idea speaks to the identity of running threaded through life, you know, through everything you do in your life. Absolutely. I agree. And it's a lot of times these notions that we have. That we kind of drag around with us for the rest of our life. They're not tied to us as strongly as we think. And usually it's just a conversation that is like two or three questions deep where suddenly you can cut these ties entirely. I mean, when people talk about that, they'll say, well, you know, I'm not a runner. You know, I used to run, but I don't really run that much anymore. Or, you know, I run, but I'm not a real runner. You know, all of these things were

31:34just, all you have to do is ask and follow questions like, what's a what's a real runner? I'd love to know because you've run a marathon. What's a real runner? I mean, it's, it's fascinating to me. What people need to accomplish in order to feel accomplished. It's like you're in the one percent on the planet. What are you waiting for? Like, and a lot of times you have to remove the person from themselves to get them to realize more about themselves. So like, for instance, if we're talking about like, what makes up a real runner? Or if you're talking about being kinder to yourself out there on a run, it's too much for people to do it for themselves. But if you say, okay, you've run a marathon or a half marathon, or you run two days a week and you run for 20 minutes, that's not a real runner. Whatever people's crazy definitions are of what a real runner is or isn't. I usually say, imagine you have somebody who just did their first run. They're super excited. They've run five minutes in a row, which is a bad ass first run. Okay. They finished it. They want to run again. Like,

32:35woo, like, and they're walking by you at the water fountain. And there you are and you're talking to somebody else and you say to them, well, I mean, I've run a marathon, but I'm not a real runner. And they overhear that. What are they supposed to do with that? I mean, they were just so excited. They ran their first five minute run. And they're like, I can't believe I ran five minutes in a row, which is awesome. Okay. And now they hear somebody who to them must be a real runner because they've run a marathon or a 10 care, whatever. And they're diminishing themselves where yeah, I've run a 10 K, but that I'm not a real runner. I've run a marathon. I'm not a real runner. I only run 10 minute pace or 12 minute pace or four. I'm not a real runner. Just imagine someone is near you. And if you really want to make them hurt, someone's near you that you care about. And they over hear you. Is that what you want them to hear? And if not, why? If that's the truth. And they suddenly realize it's not the truth. But they're doing is they're trying to beat other people to the punch.

33:36Before you tell me I'm not a real runner, I will tell you I'm not a real runner. And that's just an awful merry go round to be on. So I just brought the whole mood down. I'm sorry. There we go. All right. Well, that was coach. I don't even care anymore. The point is at the end of the story, they start acknowledging their own awesomeness. All right. So now we're back into the Rob Rob. And that's how you be a good coach or a support of teammate to yourself. Amen. And you can't support others unless you're supporting yourself. I think that's it's an important thing for I think everyone to hear. It's especially true. I think because I saw it amongst other coaches and other teachers because one of the one of the mindsets you have to have as a coach or a teacher is that you're the least important person in the room when you're with your students or your athletes. It doesn't mean you're not important. It says you're the least important person in the room. And that's not a bad thing. It's a it's a wonderful feeling because

34:38you're in there to serve. The problem is you end up thinking I don't need to take care of myself either. And that also can bleed into the rest of your life. So you know, your point of being your own best coach and your own best teammate, that is absolutely essential if you want to be a better runner. And if you can do that, when you're done running, you've got more energy to be a better partner, friend, nurse, whatever it is that you are. All right. It's time for a short break to hear about some great deals from our sponsors. Take care of your eyes. Enjoy 20% off at tophosieoptics.com with code feisty2026. And click on the link in the show notes to enter a giveaway for a free pair, one winner each month with each year that passes the more my eyes demand I protect them from sunlight. That's why I have tophosie sunglasses stash pretty much everywhere in my car, my pickleball bag, my running gear drawer, my carry on bag. You name it. Tophosies are my go-to glasses because they are

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37:44That's currex.com with code AMR15 for 15% off. Curax.com AMR15. I'm a grab-and-go gal. Whether heading out the door for a workout or looking for a mid-afternoon snack, I don't like to slow down. So I'm so happy that I recently discovered a Tasty New Bar called Jam Bar. And it's created by a woman who knows her stuff, Jennifer Maxwell. Jennifer's name might sound familiar to you. Back in 1985, this nutritionist, ultra-unner, and mother of six co-founded the original energy bar, Power Bar. Jam bars are certified organic bars made from clean, wholesome ingredients to provide sustained, easy-to-digest energy. These Tasty Convenient Bar's contain ancient gluten-free grains, only sweeteners found in nature, dried fruit, or premium chocolate, and 10 grams of high-quality protein. Whole-food jam bars contain no oils or highly processed sugars. They're available in five yummy flavors, including gluten-free and vegan options. I just enjoyed a chocolate chachach-flavored bar

38:44to fuel me through recording ads. And a detail that makes Jam bars even more appealing to me, the company donates 50% of after-tax profits to organizations that support sports and music. Jennifer Maxwell is also a musician. Grab some Jam bars for yourself. Get 20% off by shopping at jambar.com and use and code AMR20. That's J-A-M-B-A-R dot com and code AMR20 to save 20%. Again, jambar.com code AMR20. Okay, so talking about making things a little uncomfortable, this is sincere when I say that. Yeah, so for some people listening, there's an elephant in the room, and that's Nike, between the mistreatment of Mary Kane under the Nike Oregon Project, and more recently, the Nike Schims suspender shorts that were widely mocked on social media, there are women who have real frustrations with the brand. I hear from a lot of them on social media. They text me, talk about in person. Yet your book feels almost like the opposite of that. It's warm, it's

39:48supportive, it's deeply inclusive of women. So how do you square those two things? Well, I square them the first way is by being true to myself. I mean, that's the most important thing, and that's been since 2014 when I came back. I mean, my first conversation when I realized that they were trying to offer me a job was I wrote down a number of things. I said, this is my coaching philosophy. And if you asked me to go against it, I'm going to tell you no. So if you're okay with that, then great. And they said, okay, now granted, that doesn't mean that's how it's going to be, but that was the first step in me saying, okay, and I've been able to stay true to myself. And as my platform has kind of grown, as I've gone deeper and deeper into the 2020s, and my role here at Nike, that's been the constant kind of foundation for me is this is how I coach, and this is how I'm going to treat people. And that's always going to be the

40:52way I do it. I'm in a unique position because the role was made up when I got hired. It didn't exist. And it started in New York City. It was specific to New York City. And then I grew, well, could you do this in Boston and Chicago also in LA and then it kind of grew international. And then I had to move from the land of Melcon Honey, New Jersey, and go to Oregon, and live out there for 10 years. And each role as it kind of grew, it was a made up role, which is good and bad. I mean, there is no one saying like, hey, this is how you do it. On the flip side, there was no one to say, this is how you don't do it. So I was able to kind of create the role. And for me, I think it's it's like anything else I've done, whether I was working in finance and I was working in education, and both of those have issues that they've had to get through. I worked for seven years in finance and then seven years in education. I knew that being on the inside, this is where if I stay true

41:53to who I am, I'm going to be frustrated a lot. But I'm never going to go to bed and feel like I've let myself down or the people I care about down. And that's kind of how I've always operated. But I would also say that, you know, if people have frustrations with a Nike or with anyone else, I mean, I can understand that because I can understand that having frustrations in this day and age with just about everything and the key is to not dismiss them, I think it is. I think we should always be asking for more. I mean, one of the reasons why I wrote the book was I simply believe that we collective, we a billion, we can be better. Period. Now, if you believe that, you're setting yourself up to be frustrated a lot. I mean, that's just the reality. But I would much rather be optimistic and let down than pessimistic and right. I think that's because there's more action in the optimist. Pessimism is an apathetic worldview. Optimistic is I think much more action oriented. And that's kind

42:58of how I've always operated. And that's how I'm going to continue to operate. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know if that entirely answers the question because sometimes I kind of run myself around in circles and I kind of forget what the question was. But I mean, that's kind of how I've looked at it is the best thing I can do is try to get my voice as loud as I possibly can and then use that responsibility to say the right things. So speaking of being true to yourself, in your book, you talk a lot about important qualities for a runner and that's definitely one of them, right? And as is like being real, so can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, well, you know, it's the foundation of, I mean, if we want to talk about like a coach athlete relationship, it's got to be honesty. I mean, that's that's first and foremost, that's what matters. So I mentioned the book that the most important question a coach can ask an athlete is simply, how are you doing? And you can't

44:02do anything until you've had that conversation, you know, if you have an athlete that shows up in front of you and you haven't asked them how you how they're doing, how can you possibly tell them to do anything? I mean, you can have a training plan, but coaching isn't about writing a training plan, it's about adjusting training plans. I mean, that's that's the key to coaching. So it's it's a question though that I like to use because it gets used all the time and it never really gets answered. We ask each other all the time how you're doing and we give the same default answer. Good. How are you doing? Good. And then we just before we even finish answering the question, we're already moving on with the rest of our lives. We don't stick around. I mean, God forbid somebody says not so good. And you're like, I'm already in the elevator. I'm sorry, I don't have time. You answered something that does not compute. I don't know what you're talking about. We're just supposed to say good. I only want to stay in the baby pool. Why are you going in the deep end? But from a coach athlete relationship, we have to be in the deep end. If if you're stressed out, I need to know if you're uncomfortable,

45:04I need to know if you've had a couple nights of bad sleep, I need to know. I mean, because that's the only way I can coach the athlete that you are. I don't want to coach the athlete that you're not. It's a leap of faith for a lot of people because it's uncomfortable being honest. I mean, it really is. I mean, it's it's much easier just not letting people in. I mean, and that's that is again, the easy path to take. But the easy things to do sometimes make everything else you do harder. And that's one of them. And if you can't at least be honest with your coach, you have to at least be honest with yourself. And if you're not doing great, you don't grind your way to six. I mean, there's that we we're in the stage right now where over the last few years, we've got a lot of people that have these coaching philosophies or work philosophies or work life philosophies. Like, you got to grind to get ahead, which I couldn't disagree with more. There is no sport that is about grinding all the time. None. There are times to grind, but the only reason why you can grind

46:10through those times is because you have recovered and healed during the other times. There's a reason why you have hard workouts surrounded by easy runs. Because if you line up enough hard workouts, you're done. It's over. Like, it's just there, there isn't, you know, the idea of law of diminishing returns or everything gets a little bit less, a little bit less, but it's always above zero. And if you go negatively, only way to get out of that hole is to stop. That's the only way. So it's that question of like, how are you doing is absolutely essential, because one of the verbs that are involved in great running is healing and recovery. And sometimes the best run is less distance or less duration or less intensity or no run at all. And the true is on the other side, though, the pendulum swings the other way. Sometimes you've made fitness jumps that your confidence isn't ready to take on yet in the coach's season. It's like, I think you need to move to a different group because you've made a jump in your fitness.

47:14Everyone always thinks adjustments are negatives. Like, well, you make adjustments in your training because you're tired or you're soft. And it's like, no, that's not it. Sometimes it's because you've made a jump and you're not ready to accept the fact that you're ready to do something greater than you've ever done before. But that's why a coach always has to be honest, because that's the ultimate conversation. When a coach says to an athlete, I believe in you more than you believe in you, but do you believe me? And that's everything. And if you've lied, well, then the athlete doesn't. And then you never get to see that jump. Well, right there, you bring up a word that that you talk about in the book. You stress how important it is to be believed in as an athlete. So even as someone with a healthy ego, I know that it can be tough for middle-aged women in our society to be believed in as an athlete, to be seen as an athlete, to be seen and as an athlete. And so any advice on how to cultivate a supportive network, particularly for people maybe who

48:16aren't in a coaching situation, you know, don't have a coach? Absolutely. I think the first thing I would mention is probably going to be the most difficult is you have to see yourself, which is really, really hard. I mean, because if enough people don't see you or you believe don't see you, like I said, you can start to believe you're invisible even to yourself. And that's the hardest part right there. And it takes the most strength and the most courage and the most, you know, self-belief to actually be like, no, I am seen, I deserve to be here. I am a vital part of this community. Whether the community acknowledges me or not. And I think that's really difficult. Now, one thing I will say that's exciting about this, as runners, we're not usually afraid of the great challenges, which is why so many runners start running because that's hard. I mean, that is really difficult to start running because most people who start running, they don't start running from a good place. I mean, we see it at the end of December and we see it at the end of May that people start

49:18running, not because I wish they would start running because they're like, you know what? It looks awesome. And runners seem like just such great people. And I want to challenge myself. No, it's usually I don't like who I am. I wish I was who I used to be or I wish I was someone I'm not yet. All I know is I don't like who I am now. And I'm going to run because I'm going to change. Running's going to change me and make me a better version of myself because we hear that term all the time, but it gets kind of misconstrued. One, that's a very dark place on the starting line, to be starting with that. You know, you're someone who doesn't like yourself. And then on top of that, to think running's going to fix this. Because what happens is is you finish that first run and if you're not running the right way, okay, which means you're going too fast or trying to go too hard. I mean, if you did like a family feud style, like what's the distance of a first run? It'd be like survey says number one would be like 30 minutes or 5K, which is wild. You know, you're like who told you this? Who told everyone 30 minutes or 5K? Everyone thinks that you've been that's so far. And

50:23it's not that's about what happens. People run too hard for too long. And then they come up short and they think they're not enough. And we all know that voice inside their heads during the run. I'm not good enough. I'm not a real runner. I'm not who I used to be. I'll never be who I want to be. I mean, so you have an awful teammate and an awful purpose, which is I have to change who I am. That's really dark, but it's also should be acknowledged, you know, because that's the only way we're going to be able to deal with it. So I usually tell people like from a coaching perspective, I just want you know that you may have been a great person. I don't know. I didn't know you might have been amazing. I have no idea who you're going to be, but I'm sure you're going to be remarkable. So if you can just own your fitness right now and respect this athlete, because this is the athlete is going to do the work always this one, the one in the present. We can do something. And then it's going to take a lot of humility, which by the way is a superpower. A lot of people think being, you know, humble is like cowering in a corner. Oh, no, it's one of the essential ingredients to

51:27greatness, because humility means that you have upside, you have potential, which is again, one of the things you need to have to be great. And what it means is who I am right now is enough. You may not be running what you think is enough, but I can assure you it is if you want to get better. There's so much to celebrate when you come to reality. Like we're only going to run two minutes today. And the first thing an athlete will say is like that's not even a real run. You know, you you show me the literature that decides what a real run is because I'm going to bring the dictionary out. And it says a run is the activity of a runner. There's no duration. There's no distance. There's no pace. Are you going to argue with the dictionary? I didn't think so. So we're going to do two minutes and we're going to run so easy. You're going to think I have no idea what I'm talking about. And as a result, they don't think I know what I'm talking about, but they finished the two, three minute run. They feel great. And they're now mad at me that I that they can't run further. And I'm like, let's just stop for a minute and pause and think about what just happened. You just

52:32did a run. And now you're pissed that you can't run more. Are you kidding? Like this is this is a breakthrough. This is massive. But it's going to take patience. It's going to take humility and it's going to take some honesty and all three of those things again, they take courage. So I find that if you can challenge an athlete to do those things suddenly the two minutes or the five minute run is put in the right light and they're okay with doing it. But again, a lot of it comes with with seeing yourself for who you really are. And I'll tell you what if you find yourself in a starting line, you are a badass. You got to own it. And the hardest part of the run may just be that owning the fact that you're a badass. Amen to that. All right, it's time to learn a bit about the brands that support this show. As a runner, you know, there are certain aches and pains you can ignore and others that start making wonder whether they're going to affect your next run. I've had a bothersome left knee. So when my fellow feisty podcast host, Selene Yeager told me about Prevenix joint health plus. I was intrigued. Selene had been dealing with arthritic toes that

53:38actually sidelineed her from running. She started taking joint health plus, noticed a real difference, and now she's training for an ultra. Since Selene knows her science, I decided to try it myself. A little over a week after I started taking joint health plus, my knee felt significantly better. My feet and toes also felt more limber, especially when I first got up in the morning. I shouldn't have been surprised. There's good science behind it. Joint health plus contains a clinically studied ingredient, natural eggshell membrane, that's been shown to support joint comfort, stiffness, and flexibility with benefits seen in as little as seven to ten days. It also contains buzzwellin for additional joint support. Selene was right, and now I'm also a believer in joint health plus. If you're dealing with joints that aren't quite as happy about running as the rest of you is, I really think it's worth trying. And there's very little risk of giving it a shot. If you don't feel the benefits with your first bottle, Prevenix will give you your money back. No questions asked. You can get 15% off your first Prevenix order at Prevenix.com with code AMR15. That's PREVINEX.com code AMR15. Prevenix.com

54:45code AMR15. Head As. Running shoes built from the ground up for women's biomechanics. Save 20% with code StayFistie at headas.com. As a taller, heavier woman, I'm really hard on my athletic shoes, so durability is super important to me. So I was intrigued when my FICY teammates introduced me to head As, a Canadian brand that only makes running shoes for women. Most running shoe outsoles start breaking down within a few hundred miles, to offer a long lasting outsole in its alma line of shoes. Head a ditch standard rubber instead using polyurethane, which has roughly double the abrasion resistance of traditional rubber. And it's not just a marketing claim. Two elite runners ran more than a thousand miles on a single pair each, with one runner going nearly a thousand miles and the other nearly twelve hundred miles. Wow. Head As. A women's founded Canadian brand builds a shoe with a women's specific last that locks your heel in place so you're not sliding around inside the shoe. That's the Alma from Hedas, a road shoe built to

55:46last and built for women. Be sure to order a half size up. Try and save. Go to headas.com and get 20% off using code StayFistie. That's StayFistie for 20% off at headas.com, H-E-T-T-A-S dot com with code StayF-E-I-S-T-E-Y. Summer throws routine out the window. And by the time September hits, getting back into it, sometimes feels like starting from zero. FicyFid is your reset. Not a random challenge you white knuckle through alone, but seven weeks of real structure. A program that tells you exactly what to do, a coach who's in your corner and a community that keeps you showing up on the days, weeks, you don't feel like it. FicyFid is a hybrid program built for women who want to see progress in two places at once on the run and in the wait room with a coach and a community to keep you consistent along a way. What's included? A varied running plan, three days a week of full-body strength training, bike or machine alternatives for every run, three live community calls with the

56:47coach Linda Rowan and a private Facebook group. Registration is open through September 6th. The program runs September 7th to October 26th. For all the details and to register for FicyFid, click the link in the show notes or visit liveficy.com and click on the training tab. Again, that's livefefeistdy.com and click on the training tab. So coach, before the break we were talking about middle-aged women and running and as a coach you are coaching people to be faster. But for women who are of a certain age, I'm going to arbitrarily say 50 and up, that's me. I'm not going to get faster. I've been running a long time. Fast is not, that's not happening. It's just not realistic. How we can get caught up in this idea of we got to get faster or if we're not getting faster, we're not a good, a good, now we're not just not a real runner, we're not a good runner.

57:49So can you talk a little bit about that, about how we define success? Yeah, well, I like to say I'm coaching them to get better because they can define what better means because not everyone's running to get faster. I'm with you. I will never run a faster mile ever. That ship has sailed. It is gone. I can run a better one though. I can run a better mile. I can run a smarter mile. I can have a funner mile. I can have a more exciting mile. There's a lot of different ways I can define better. I can enjoy my running more than I ever did. There's a lot of different ways you can define better. Faster may be one of them. I can run my fastest in events I've never run before. I can run my fastest mile at a different course. I can run my fastest mile in the rain potentially. There's a lot of different ways that you can do it. I think we narrowly define running success by the clock and that diminishes so much potential for success. So my challenge for

58:49people is why do you have to so narrowly define running? And when you do that, and this was one of the things that I actually wrote down when I first started running for Nike is one of my philosophies. You have to measure success as many ways as you can. That came from coaching at the high school level. So yeah, one of their goals, all of their goals was to run faster. But I had to challenge them. The better you get, the harder it gets to get better. So if you're only measuring it by getting faster, I will tell you this, you will only achieve less and less success the better you get if you're only defining it by faster and faster. All you got to do is look the world's greatest athletes. If the benchmark for success is faster, then they are all the most unsuccessful athletes in the world. In fact, the most successful athletes are the new runners because they're constantly breaking through. So if you start running at 55, you are a far more successful runner than the

59:52world's fastest athletes because they almost never experienced success by that benchmark. So for me, it's an inclusive of those athletes that want to get faster and faster and faster. The key is you have to widen the aperture of how you define success in this sport. If it's only going further, if it's only going faster, you will be limiting the amount of success you have, which means you're going to limit the joy you experience on the other side of the starting line. Because if you're finishing every run saying that wasn't a success because I didn't go further, I didn't go faster. Like, I'll tell you what, it happens fast. Eventually, it's like, that's about it. And I mentioned in the book, I had this jump where I think from like 14 to 15, I brought my like mile time down by like 40 seconds. And then from like 15 to 16, it was 25 seconds. And then from 16 to 18, it was 15 seconds. And then it was like from age 21 to 26, it went down two and a half

1:00:54seconds. That was the best I ever was. It was the hardest I ever trained. It was the, like, if there was a picture of me that I wanted in a book of pictures about me, I wanted it during those years. But if you were measuring success by how much faster I was getting, if you looked out, you'd go, there was almost no success. You ran thousands and thousands of miles to cover 1,609 meters, two seconds faster. What are you doing? And I'd say, I don't know, but I equate that as my most successful five or six years in running, even though I never want to race. And I only got two seconds faster. You know, so if you don't know anything about the sport, people would say, this guy really should have quit a little bit earlier. But so I think you, we have the luxury of defining what better means. And that's why I like to differentiate between a PR and a PB. A PR, your personal

1:01:57record find that's metric base, that's a number, but your personal best, you can have an infinite number of personal bests for any distance you run. You just get to define them. Love that that's not just a, you know, US Canadian differentiation. Yeah. More PBs people, more PBs. Okay, so, so let's get a little frivolous perhaps here. You mentioned in the book that you have a playlist. You refresh every two weeks that's called Coach Bennett's Mixed Tape. Mixed tapes are definitely have a moment. So, and as someone who loves a well-curated running playlist, I'd love to know what some of your current favorite running songs are and any advice you have on making it get grooving and moving playlist. Okay, well, first you will notice that there, there's no beats per minute rule on my playlist. My playlists are all about what I want to listen to and the run will fit the song or the song's going to fit the run. I don't know what who's in charge or what until we get into that

1:03:00moment because I can, I can throw down to a really sad song and I can totally zone out in the woods to some punk rock. Like it's just I'm, I'm not one of those people that's like, you know, the beats per minute have to fit the pace and the stop it. Like just give me a break. Like we don't have to, you know, become robots with everything. I love mix tapes. I grew up with mix tapes. So, for me, a mix tape has diversity, a mix tape has spontaneity and a mix tape should challenge you a little bit and a mix tape should also be comfortable. So, you have a little bit of everything and I think it's the same thing with training. You know, I think in the, if I remember correctly, I should remember, I wrote it, but I think in there's a chapter called Mixed Tapes in the book and but I use it as the example of what your training should look like. It should look like a great mix tape. It should be diverse. It should be hard runs, but there should be easy runs. There should be longer runs. There should be short runs. There should be like speed work, but there should also be kind of runs where you just play and you go into the woods because, you know, GPS can't follow you in there. Like that's

1:04:05what a great mix tape was to me. It was something that was exciting and fun and made me want to dance and sometimes made me want to, you know, get into, you know, a ball in the corner with a blanket and cry. And then next thing you know, there's a rager that comes on and you want a party, but that's what kept the mix tapes fresh for me and that's what keeps your running fresh for you is you have to have that diversity. I mean, that word, if you put it in almost any situation in life, it makes life better. So, diversity in your training and diversity in your playlists, now we're getting somewhere. So, you have a fairly extensive book tour, taking off I believe tomorrow, as we're recording tonight. Tonight. How exciting. All right. So, your book is called This Is About Running. This is not about running. So, you got a good contrast going on there. Are you doing anything non-traditional in your events? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, it's, so the first one tonight is actually near and dear to me, it's starting at the high school that I taught at and I coached. So, yeah,

1:05:09we're going to have about like 300 people in the theater there and yeah, I thought, who really wants to listen to me the entire time? So, I brought out the big guns. There's a coach Bennett, the greater in the family. That's my wife. My wife is known as Coach Bennett, the greater. So, she will be the MC because the reality is most people just want to listen to her anyway. And then we're going to have a couple of people, a student, a teacher, an administrator from the school. They're all going to read the passages that resonated to them and kind of personalize it. Like, why? And they're not all runners, you know? So, some of them it was, which I don't want this book to only be for runners. And yeah, we're going to celebrate the local cross-country team while we're there. Yeah. So, to me, I look at these as excuses to kind of celebrate the community and I kind of, I'm lucky I kind of cross over because I spend a lot of time in high school running. I spend a lot of time trying to break into the elite side of running. And I work with the great

1:06:14masses of people that make this sport so awesome. So, it's rare though that we get everyone in the same room together at the same time. We kind of silo ourselves, say it sadly, you know? You'll have track athletes probably don't cross over with road runners and people who race on the roads don't think they belong on the track and trail runners are off with their granola bar over there judging us. So, I mean, like, there's, there's all sorts of different little silos that we put ourselves in, but we're able to cross over. And each of these places love each other, you know what I mean? That's that's the part that's so wild is people that do run the track would love more people to run track. And people that are on the roads would probably realize that it is a beautiful addition to the repertoire to spend some time on some trails, you know? And I'm trying to get as much crossover as possible for people to realize like there's, there's not just room on the starting line, there's room on many starting lines for you. And you just have the guts to show up, but they'll be there. They'll be people there to welcome you. And if they're

1:07:20aren't and you're the only one there, then your job is to be there to welcome the next person who shows up. That's lovely. Well, Coach Bennett, we wish you great success with the book. I hope that was a truck going by with loads of your books in it. I think it was a garbage truck actually. So we're going to hope my book was not in there actually now that I caught a little view of it. It's not even out yet. What's going on? So yeah, so and have great fun on your book tour. I appreciate it. And thank you so much for having me on, but thank you also for what you do, because I think right now we're, we got to stop calling it a running boom. It's just the reality, but there's a lot of noise and there's a lot of really bad advice. And with that bad advice, comes a lot of people think they don't belong. And you all do the complete opposite. So please keep doing what you're doing and just thank you so much for having me on. I really do appreciate it. Oh, you're sweetheart. Thank you so much. What a lovely man. What a great coach he must have been

1:08:26with his high school athletes too, right? I love that he was in the classroom with them and also on the track with them. And like being able to see their all the personality, right? And what's going on in their lives? He must be awesome. What you did, my coach. I know. I did that optimism. Team optimism. Yay. I know. That's you. Guilty is charged. This podcast is a production of another mother runner and feisty media. Remember to check out our newly reintroduced training programs. We have plans for distances from 5K up to marathons. And if you aren't looking to run a race, I feel you. We have you covered as well with our feisty fit fall edition, which kicks off on September 7. Find all this running guidance at livefacy.com and click on training. Again, that's livef e i s ty.com and the link is always in our show notes. Stay feisty.