Character Discussion: Mary and Adam

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There's a place to be living in a distance of three

One round for one, there's a place to be living in a distance of three

I'm supposed to, I saw, it's me, I saw the prairie

We're chasing us to watch the day

Hello, this is Mark and we're listening to one of

Crave cast. I'm on today returning to the show Christina. How are you Christina?

I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you doing? Right? Things we have things we good good

Not great. Not great

It is

So I really like this idea. It's a little bit of a departure from doing episode discussions where we

Choose a couple of characters at first. We were going to tackle. I think I was just feeling more ambitious the other day

And to tackle a for some of Mary Adam Laura and Almanzo

Why say for some I'm not being disgusting like this fan fiction things. I'm talking about

Just a two-sum, which is totally normal and Christian

No judgment. No judgment

But I mentioned this in a previous episode with somebody that I

Really want to do something with the fan fiction that's out there because it's twisted and don't google it

No, if you're under 18 don't google it

But I'm archive I'm currently archiving at all because I've a feeling it's going to vanish, but I really I

Really want to make it's going to be like a rated R maybe even like a rated NC 17

type of thing

for standing over 17

I am over 17. All right, so you're okay for conversation

But I know you but I know your limits

So I'm not going to like push them

But there are things in these writings that exist and right now people like I would never

read that but

There are certain things in these writings that are beyond any limits, I think like I'm like one kind of sick mind

comes up with

ancestral

storylines

Or G's tentacle sex a lot

Okay, the over abundance of a discussion of both control

It's a very

interesting

Collection of fan fiction that's very poorly written. I would say it's written on maybe a 4th or 5th grade reading level if that

Or is it written by AI?

No, it's written by that guy Lennel

I'm leaving his name in it's it's written by that creepy guy

We'll see the guy who has like orders of protection with other people

Like seriously, they you know, he's to the point where

Cast members would do appearances and they get nervous if he shows up and

Other times where there have actually been like physical skill but

It's anyway

But I do want to do something in the future possibly some type of dramatic reading

Which I think would be really funny. I'm talking to court your race about this and she's in

I think it's one of those things where you just have to like

And just read it

I'll keep you in on the loop on that and see if we can find a

Less disgusting role for you

Thank you, but that's not what we're discussing further today

We're discussing a discussion between Mary and Adam and the relationship between these two and how they met

What they think of each other and

And all of that kind of stuff, you know, it's really a loosely based discussion about these two characters

Yeah

That sounds good

As we know Mary

Will she was like the pretty one, right for almost almost a total of four seasons. She was always a pretty one

But you know, it's she was always considered like

The prize. Who's the appellator of teacher's eyes?

Yeah, and she would lose her vision towards the end of season four

Yes, and all of a sudden she you know lost all

Thinking of a better word than vision. She lost all hope I think

I think that's that's one of the sad things about Mary is

Yeah, it is

You know one day we're you know moving forward and we're doing this and

And then the next day something happens and you feel like you're really kicked down and you're like I can't I can't get up

And I think that the characters

um

Rock bottom moment

We get to actually witness and I think it's I think it's a really phenomenal. So I think it's why a lot of people

Why it's resonated with so many people

Where you have no choice you have like you can sit here and wallow and die or you can get a redo something about it

Yeah, we've all had those moments. I certainly have oh yeah

Um, and then of course with any sort of physically limiting disability that suddenly comes upon you

I can't imagine it you know trying to get over that I try not he have to go through this

uh

Like out of maybe even depression and hopelessness and all this other and then you got to try and push through the other side of that

has there ever been

Another that you recall you watch a lot of old TV like I do

Has there ever been a moment where

Intellivision a character has

Gone through a disability. I call it disability people might criticize me on that one

But they go through the through something that's life changing like this

And the public cares, you know like it's all of a sudden. It's the storyline

I mean, I could think of like who shot J.R. That might be way before your time

Yeah listeners know what I'm talking about Larry Hagman who shot him

Um from the TV show Dallas

So and I didn't even watch the show in it. It was it like I knew about it

Yeah, and I think I think of people were to list their top five

Like moments where

Something tragic happened. They actually give a crap about I think Mary might be on that list um

Good times you had the the loss of the father Johnny um Amos

Um, he had a heart attack or yeah, I think he had a heart attack and died. He's a heartbreaking moment

Uh, but there are there are moments where

Shows

Do

Do things like this and people care, but I can't think of the time where somebody goes blind and people care

Um, it's a newer show, but in uh, it's a show called Heartland. It's a Canadian show

It's like a west type of show, right

Yeah, the main character works with horses for a living and she gets kicked in the head by one and loses her sight for

I don't know if it's like a couple three four episodes

See, and that's another thing. So when Benanza Michael Landon's character little um, little Joe

He

He lost his vision in a similar way. He got kicked in the head by a horse

I actually have a clip here. I have to dig through it of where he's struggling to learn he has to relearn and care

I don't need you and I know what you you here

So you lay this clip because it's ridiculous, but he goes to run he trips over a chair and it's like

Silly and he regains his vision by the end of the episode spoiler and

But yeah, I can't think of too many times where people care they actually give a crap that

somebody um is sick of course and dr. Quinn reverend would lose his vision

But it's not it didn't become like a thing. It wasn't like a point a plot point where

We know that the character marry angles

Based on a real person is going to lose her vision

We know it's not going to come back at the end of the episode or next season

Right, so it's kind of crazy when you really think about it like that

It is

Um, and then you wonder like they've taken so many liberties. Are they going to give her her vision back?

I mean, they're going we know that they're going to give her a husband, so

Well, I didn't when I first watched this show I didn't read I hadn't read any of the books

So I didn't know that she was prominently blind. I didn't know you know

I didn't know that maybe she wouldn't get her sight back

When I was watching this for the first time

Yeah, and you watched it when you were much younger when you were a kid, so it's almost like

You know, what am I going to go read the dictionary to watch the show?

You know, I'm not going to look it up and do you know a historical study that's much for future Christina to do

Right

Do you do that? I

Almost ruins shows for me

Like I'll be an IOTB and I'll miss the whole plot point because I'm doing a search on like

Whether this is factual, you know

Like we started watching Twin Peaks the other day from the 90s

and

I don't know if you ever watched it, but Twin Peaks is a really out there show and

I'm like, oh, I wonder if Twin Peaks is a real place. What state is this taking place in and I

Next thing you know, I'm a few minutes into it. It's a fictional town, and I've missed a complete plot point

But now I know it's not real

Who killed Laura that was another thing from that show who killed

The character and it is murdered and they don't know killed it

So

Going to Mary, you know, Mary

Had some relationships throughout her entire life. Um, I'm not sure how many boyfriends Mary would have just maybe three

I mean like the major one of course was John Jr

I like there was one or two others before she met Adam and boys already seem to like Mary, you know

Yeah, which is pretty smart and

Yeah, tall and developing

As Laura would compare herself to her in the future

Right one of the sadder things in the books. I think it's sad anyway is even in the books. They would refer to Mary as

Like Laura kind of craps on herself a bit and they're in a mercantile in

Sleepy. I don't I don't remember where they were in the book, but you know positive trading

Pelt and stuff like that as one doesn't and

Do you have any do you have many pelts in your house? I don't have many pelts

No, I don't have one belt one. I don't know if it's a belt, but I have one lime skin. Oh

Well, there you go

Not that I did not procure myself

Maybe all of you're like all of a sudden like

Yeah, I'm gonna make her sheep

I'm gonna make I'm gonna share my sheep and make a rabbit coat

Yeah

so

The mercantile owner

Basically comments how pretty Mary is and everything kind of a creepy old manway and

How cute Lynn L and

We

I don't know and then just kind of looks at Laura and goes oh yeah, you too. Yeah, that type of that

Oh

But doesn't um in I don't know if I don't remember because I read the books a while back, but

Doesn't Laura ask could her parents or something about

Like what they love her more of shoes blotters really bad or something along those lines

I don't remember that line, but uh

You know, I just read the books a couple years ago again, and I still I mix the

Show in with the books like I really have meld them together plus having this show

I'm always discussing this and then I read the fan fiction and my head's just elsewhere

So

So yeah, I mean it's

Mary grew up like having this, you know, she's pretty and she was always the pretty one, right? I mean

It was almost like they cast her as this and successfully

But maybe people who knew a little bit better and I would say that was probably 30% 40% of the audience

knew that eventually Mary's has to go blind

Right, and I wonder if they thought that a number of times because Mary gets sick remember she gets kicked by the horse

We're just talking about that storyline being used with Michael landed and using it

Um, then she had scar did you have scarlet fever on the show?

No, I'm on the show they they say when she's starting to lose her sight the doctor the eye doctor asks Paul like

Did she have any you know, was she sick or whatever and then she he mentions that she had scarlet fever

And of course, I think that we at least I grew up kind of connecting that directly to her loss of it

Even for us, you know like there's always been this

connection then with

Like foreshadowing

You know her hating her glasses and then the glasses starting a fire you know

Yeah, which is kind of a weird

Um, but yeah, we get that one episode where we get that blood curling screamed don't worry. I'm not gonna play it

Oh, I can't see I can't see and she's all upset um and then the angles do one of the weirder

Um things they set up her bed in the

Um living space. Yeah

And I just still don't understand why they didn't put her in carry's bed

Right and swap them. Let's be real here with Mary in carry's bed and carry upstairs

My mom finally have a little privacy

You know, nobody's stay I mean they might look at her and she could be staring right at them, but

What do you say?

They would still have grace baby grace. Yeah, we'd be down there. Yeah, we're in a great sleep

I'm between them

This is a good question. Where the where the hell do grace sleep? We're on a crib like at the end of the moon

A whole life in a crib? No, no, not a whole life, but I don't remember

I know carry would eventually graduate to the loft

But Albert you know had come in by that point

Yeah, I think they when they get like all the kids like James and this I don't know what they're all up there and then graces dance

I don't know I get I don't know where grace slept

kitchen

Mary's old living room bed

Yeah, they pulled out extra trundle bed. I don't I'm not sure

You know, I'm really dumbfounded. I bet you there are people like no she slept here

I mean, maybe she slept at the foot of their bed

I think at least when carry goes up to the loft and then she has that bed with

Cassandra and they have the divider with the boys on the other side. I feel like

The grace would might have taken over carries on bed at the yeah, but they're we're talking a couple of seasons at least

Where Albert's living there now we're up there with Laura

Yeah, where they have their like blanket

fort

Yeah, hey, if you if you know

I have to go and look now it's one of those things. It's like

A fern it's like you have to like pay attention to these things sometimes and

Yeah, it's where grace just kind of appears everyone. Maybe she slept in the high chair. It's about the only place where I ever really saw her

Right

I mean

all right, so

So like I was saying in the in one of the weirder choices they set up a trundle bed

I think it was a trundle bed in the living room

Which I just don't get like I really at least you know squeeze it in behind the chimney or something

um

But don't you have to be all out in the open

It's very very odd and we have that like John Jr comes over to be like hey

What's it? It's not yeah, you're right. I'm sorry

John Jr. is gone. Yeah, John Jr. never really

Um

Yeah, like what when did Chicago air

That wouldn't be until season six or something much later. No, no, no, um season eight eight or nine eight

I think it's season eight

So like

John Jr. gets caught two timing and then they just split up

We never hear from when we hear from him, but it wouldn't be until years later

Yeah, when Victor French returns

I think I should have rooted that a little closer to

To this season because it's like really far out and people maybe are like who's Joe Jr

You know, I don't know. Oh, yeah, yeah, oh the guy in the sketch

Yeah

Um, I still think one of the craziest things was where Rodamus

Para went to

the set

Right after they finished wrapping and

Michael Landon's laughing because we just killed you, you know

He was hoping to get back on the show

And I guess unless you're gonna be nobody one can no be ghost you're not gonna really get back on the show

We're gonna be part of a flashback or something

right so

So Mary loses her vision. Of course everyone is like holy crap. You know, like this is crazy

Um, everyone's trying to help. She's really really rejecting all help which is a lot of self-pitch

Involved which is exactly what I would personally probably be in line with. I don't know about you

Um, I don't know. I say to people. I've had a number of blind people on the show reviewing

Show with me

I said right to them. You know, it's one of my fears

It is one of my fears

But I think when I talk to blind people and I hear about their life and everything

It doesn't give me hope that I've got forbid something like that were to happen

It would be a path to

Yeah, overcoming it

And that is there's so much um, like there's so many aids and technology and things like that

I mean, it's not like you know in the 1800s

Going blind man, you just it's not

What would you have done? You sure enough

Well, I guess what you would have done is you would have um headed over to independence, right?

All right. Oh, no, no, I wasn't aiming independence

I don't think I was a blind. No, I wasn't a man. Oh, yeah

The Burton School for the Blind in Iowa. That's Iowa. Yeah. So what is that distance? I would want to grow up to Iowa

I don't I'm terrible with

Anything outside of New York for the most part

Are you like you know, like you know, you're on place, you know, you know, yeah

Like in Norway like do you know like where a certain

Town is if it has less than like 50,000 people

Well, there are probably a lot of towns that have less than 50,000 people

You're right

Actually, I mean, it's far, but it's not

Painful. I don't know if there would have been a train at the time. It's roughly 300 miles

It's probably like 550 kilometers

Won't they they took a train they took like a train or like where they took a wagon

Then they took a train and then they took another wagon

I'm looking to see if there's a current

train route that

Because those two locations and there's no one

One pod drops her off and they say he gets he has to catch in early because they tell him not to stay around

Just go because it's easier or something and then he says oh, I got to take an earlier train

I'm going by I mean, I think that that particular you know, it's interesting that

Yeah, I thought that there would be a train line that existed

Maybe not like direct, but maybe he took like you know the stage to

Another town or a place where they had a train that goes

You know to sleep the eye or whatever

And then take another stage. Sleepy eye is only like a few miles away from one a grove

Missy so sleepy eye

is literally

Oh

Take 40 miles from one a grove

Yeah, that's a good wagon ride, but yeah, it's

Let's see if you're walking I tend to like if you double the walking time

I tend that's my new calculation

If you're going to go maps and put the two things in the amount of time that it would take to walk I double it for a wagon

All right, and that's 14 hours to walk. So I would say seven hours by wagon

Yeah, you have the time, you see it again

You have for the time not double. I have it

I double it's 28 hours to

I'm sorry

Um

Oh wait, no, I would have to double it so be

Yeah, I have it all right still early people

So going back to the Mary and Adam discussion

Of course, this all happens in a crescendos into the episode um the two-parter, which I think is a series this season finale

Yeah, I'll be waving as you drive away, which is beloved episode, right?

Where she goes and we're introduced to Adam Kendall

She thinks you can see at first

She thinks he can see well, it's interesting because it's

I think we also think that did you

No, I thought he was blind really right off the bat

Yeah

Somebody who I would like to refer to as observant

Because like he was like like feeling that feeling

But like you know

Touching the wall for guidance to get to the room

I think if you watch it again

Right

When they first introduce Adam

I don't believe we're supposed to believe he's blind there are indications like you could see even running his hand on the wall

Yeah, there are certain things

But I think that we're supposed to be slightly fooled, but you know what I can also be completely wrong you were not

I just assumed he was

Maybe you watched part two first

So yeah, so we all of course know this

Back and forth. I mean

She's also a bit younger. I mean, this is like an angle's trend right with how do you think he is when she first made to

Was she's 15 right?

Yeah, yeah, she's 15, but how old is he now I'm trying to think so I'm gonna say he's like 21

22

And then when I have this amazing quote from Adam when she turned 16

16 years

Yeah, so it is there's a big age difference of course

The it's not brought up. I don't believe it's brought up how old he is

No

But he certainly carries himself like like an adult

But for some like at least for me

But there's not as big an age difference between Mary and Adam and I know we're not gonna talk about more than all of it

Just as

Because to me like more still seem like a little girl compared to

Among so even when she's transitioning into like leaving her hair down and whatnot and then putting it up into the fun

Whereas when Mary and Adam meet it seems more like

Reasonable or like the age gap is not reasonable then I wonder if it's because we are always

Having a younger person to compare Mary to that we think but then she kind of

She looks older you know like when you watch those first two seasons you're like oh, she's like a baby

But she does grow up pretty quickly and I think that her look by the time we get to season three or four

Doesn't change much in terms of she doesn't get too much older looking

No

She grows her hair goes to hell

Oh, yeah, yeah, I'd all ignore that

Some are like in terms of

Like facial features and whatnot

What do you think of the way that Adam approached her with teaching her

The basics of like eating remember like it was like based on a clock

And not eating with her hand that type of stuff. I mean, I think it

I think it's good that you learn that from the ghetto. It's must you know if he feels difficult maybe but

Um sort of like tough love type of thing. Yeah, just do it. I think that's exactly it

And that he you know when he she threw her plate or something and then he said well you clean it up

You make the best you clean that up. Yeah

Um

You know, it seems maybe harsh, but I think it was good. You know, you got to snap the person out of this

Like swallowing

Because they got it, you know, she's young so she's got her whole life to live so she's got to snap out of that and just get on

You know, I mean, not get off. Where's this you know tragedy? They like, you know, you know, it is what it is and it's kind of like this

These are the cards who are dealt. I think that's the kind of

Attitude he kind of went and I wonder if they would ever revisit that in the future

You know kind of like hey remember when you first came in and

Wasn't he he was much younger when he lost his sight wouldn't he he was like

I want to see because he's over 13

Yeah, a little younger

I was he kicked I forgot what while he was jumping on the rocks in a lake or something and then he slipped and fell in his head. She's

Um

Which is why he has that fear of water wouldn't he have the course right which is kind of cringy. I don't I don't really

Um, but I guess I get it

Um, and of course all right, so

We end with them kind of like the sparks are flying like we have

Um, Mary, you know, basically learning that Adam is blind of course and we

We just have two episodes of I think a really good connection between these two characters and the actors

I thought we're really good

I like the storyline of course this is probably the biggest up to this point of little house in a break the biggest work of fiction

Mm-hmm, right. I mean, this is diverting a crazy plotline like I think we can we can maybe

Have delusions that the mercantile had a gossipy wife, but there was a mercantile of course

Um, we can do a number we can

We leave we go or broke their storms all types of crazy things

Um, and Mary of course goes blind, but to have her in a relationship now and it's like blossoming

Is just a complete work of fiction because the real Mary. I think she wouldn't she would not marry

I believe yeah, she was mostly at home when she like they she didn't go to

Well, she got all plants on her life. Well, she found the mariongles um blind school

Which I reached out to years ago and they've yet to get back to me

I wanted to find some stuff the Iowa College for the blind

Um, no, that's where she originally went

I kind of sworn there was

Because I feel like when she goes blind in the books she just

Is at home

I could I know that there's some blind school that has

Some connection with her and I don't see it here

So let's see um, so moving on we go we come back into season five and we have they're established

They're like, you know, the new you know, um hot couple of of welcome

They both have really grown they're they're flirting like crazy, right? I mean they have really

They are genuinely

Onscreen

seemingly to have fun, you know like

these two characters are really being developed really seamlessly and

Kind of organically

Yeah, I think

Um

We finally will get to the middle of season of um, yes season five

And it seems as though Charles doesn't really have much of an issue with Mary getting married young

All right, well, I mean he didn't have an issue with her getting married at with John junior at what 13?

Was she?

But that had been 13

I think she was 13 or four. Yeah, because it was season three

So that was 14 maybe but still

Still, yeah, 40 younger than Laura was when she wanted to marry um

But I guess um, do you think Charles is like well, you know what

He seems like a nice guy

She's blind. Let's put this all aside

Um, the episode the wedding of course is a lot of

Chaos going on because we have that crazy dust storm

Susan gets lost. She's like, I'm

Susan the flower girl like dropping the flowers and running off and they all kind of hide basically the equivalent of Albert stairs

That's basically what it's hitting head with a glass thing or something and then she would be in

It would have been interesting if she

Oh my oh, she went blind. Yeah, yeah, one episode, you know, yeah, just for one

But there are moments where I'm not sure you know, we were kind of

Going back and forth of whether they're even going to

Get married, right? Yeah, she's worried about what if they have children what are they gonna and the children are cited

How are they gonna handle that situation?

And there's no reason why they wouldn't be cited, you know, it's probably the odds are that they would be cited

Yeah, cuz Mary and Adam both had sight

Before you know, they weren't good. It's not a true redditary thing

Yeah

So yeah, I mean these are all things that I'm sure are genuine

Issues that would come up with a blind couple

You know, what do you do? What do you know? How do I do this? How do I do that? And of course later on we learn

That tragedy does strike

unfortunately

Um, and I have to wonder that if

Even though they had a few cited people in the blind school during the fire

Would it have helped and I think it would have

Yeah

So that's really really dark to really think about but

It's really

Like maybe their bedroom should have been I mean, I guess you could say now like your bedroom should have been on the main floor

No, right, but no one had a bedroom on the main floor or all upstairs

The main

Miss or sort of mistake there is not grabbing the baby right away and going

Yeah, like if they grab a baby and then go out with the baby and then go back in to help the kids or whatever

How did it play out?

So Mary got up and ran past the baby to help the kids, right?

Yeah, I think so

It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but they me to help the kids get out of the

of the um

of the school

and

Then they

Can't go back in really because there's too much fire and Alice is left there

So she tries to grab the baby and then get stuck because there's fire at the door now at this point where you know the

um

The kendals aren't established couple

You know like all right, they met at the end of season four

Throughout season five they would you know do all their stuff and they get married during it

Um, and she gets

Sading up once she gets pregnant once the husband is carriage

You know, I forgot about that

Yeah, they're throwing every tragedy at Mary and then she thinks she's gonna see again, but she doesn't

Yeah, like

Which is a which is ironic because when later on when

Adam would

Get regained his sight she definitely has this kind of

I don't know fits

Maybe just envy

Yeah, well, I think it's um, I don't worry because they see it a bit in this episode where she think she's gonna get our side again

Adam goes through that

I think that he's worried that when she sees maybe she sees he's not you know both

Visit like physical appearance and then also she can see and do so much other stuff now. She doesn't have to be a teacher of applying school that type of thing

um

Those types like thousand fears since self

lack of like self-confidence or something like that

And of course, of course

Professionally marrying Adam do very well with the school from when I can tell like they the maybe not do of well

But they certainly make a living doing it and it's their profession

but it's really the

Um all of these tragedies that follow them

Like you brought up the miscarriage

There there would be the wagon fire right there that's later

But of course having the baby and having this joyous occasion of um, what's the Charles junior? What was the name of the baby?

It's a well-known name. I think it's like

Charles yeah

Yeah, it's something

Kendall

I can flip it up. Like well, I'm gonna ask um croc

Are you typing? All right

Adam Charles Holbert Kendall junior. I knew it was Adam

um

Holbert after Caroline's

Parents, I guess it's a freaking long name

so

Yeah, having him and

All of this stuff. It's kind of like working out for Mary and everybody's so happy about this

And everyone else is growing up and then

we have the

Well, I do want to mention in the beginning of series. I mean season six

We established the blind school where we have the herodos in school of the blind which is um either near or

in Walnut Grove

And we bring Hester Sue in which of course she becomes a completely important part of the whole storyline even having her own storylines

and

So I mean right now we're telling the you know timeline but

So I say we finish up the timeline quickly. Of course this the

The blind school fire um ends up with Alice and Adam

Both perishing in the fire

So that of course makes the Garvey's move away

We have

um

Old was oh yeah, the baby is only a month old

Yeah

Yeah, which is pretty crazy

And I don't was maybe we make them proud was that that was not a season finale, right?

No, it was in the middle like it was a two-parter in the middle

What was the season finale for little house seasons?

Well, that was he loves me. He loves me not when they rebuild the blind school

That's interesting

Or like we're trying to rebuild them and they move to sleep the eye right

All right, then Laura then we introduce Houston

Yeah

so

when

They're they are established in Winoka right and

In the middle of season seven a little bit of blast in oil goes off and Adam regains his sight

What's so interesting about Adam is

I don't know I feel like he was well-educated um

Before he went blind

But he wasn't you know everything he learned was through the time when he was blind

Yeah

And he decided to follow a career in law we have that moment

Where um he has to take the exam and marry convinces him you know to make an exception for Adam

Which is really interesting

Yeah

And finally, you know, we have

Moments where they're barely on the show we they finally show up in season eight

Of course, I do want to mention blind justice. We get the

the attorney episode where Adam is

Defending this property salesperson

We're selling swamp land, I believe

Yeah

But then episodes um

Season eight episode 11 we have a Christmas they never forgot which is genuinely a throwaway episode

Even though we reviewed on this podcast often

Right where it's a flashback episode and

Yeah, we we have Mary and Adam together

They never have another kid

Which is kind of interesting

They kind of adopted it like why wouldn't they have adopted a blind kid or something

Right, I mean, I mean, it would have been it would have been in line with the Ingalls way, you know, yeah

Don't I think I mean imagine losing two children

Yeah, no, I couldn't you know, it's it's terribly and then

Yeah, I guess choosing not to and I guess the blind kids are in a lot of ways of replacement for them like they're very close with the blind school kids

And vice versa the kids are very close with them

Even Susan

What are your thoughts in terms of the whole dynamic so we have we have Adam

Who's really kind of fairly well put together and we're guessing early 20s when they first meet

And we have Mary who's completely unhinged because she's so upset over the loss of revision

And then it kind of there's um

There's an equal like she quickly picks up

This you know, she becomes a teacher for the blind and she kind of fulfills her

Life goal. She always want on the show. She always want to be a teacher. She wants to teach her

You know, I mean we have the misspeel moment

Where she um we we see she could be tough when she needs to be tough

She can be um

Speak up time

I wonder they should have misspeel say you know put a curse on her that she goes blind

I mean women at least someone interesting, but

The misspeel character's such a dark woman like she's so horrible

That I almost think that that would have been like whoa, that's crazy, you know

Yeah, she maybe she was a witch. Yeah, you look back. Yeah, like what maybe she was a work

Thank you

She put um some type of voodoo on it

So at that point Mary kind of regains her own self worth in a lot of ways and she becomes more the Mary we know

and

But we do have those you know very powerful moments where

um

Like for instance where Adam can't take the exam

So she goes and she makes a case for him to the professor and he

agrees

You know these are it's interesting dynamic to have the the wife

You know in the 70s are actually probably 80s when that aired it

It's really a role reversal where the woman's like well, let me give you a piece of my mind

And it's not probably not something you'd see

At all really in a relationship like that in the 19th century. I don't believe

No, I don't think so either. Yeah, like I don't think um

They had as much moxie as

Or they were allowed to where we have that much moxie

Yeah, I think they have they could be tough and strong in other ways but not in terms of like standing up for

Other people particularly up to men

And of course that's written into the show, you know

It's really fun to watch that type of stuff where you help you know you have Mary help him achieve his goals

And he gets to take the exam again and I believe he passed

I'm guessing he passed

Even though back then from what I understand like you do a little bit of research into this

I don't think that there was an established bar exam until like the 1890s or even later

And you could just call yourself a lawyer kind of like on doctor Quinn medicine woman where

You you literally as long as you

Can I think it's where the whole point in the states where you're given the option to represent yourself

I think that's where it kind of comes from like you know it well enough. All right, you represent yourself

Or you can go to a professional. It's kind of like you can install this

Um operating system on your computer yourself or you can go to the

Geeks squad and spend like 10 time, you know

Like five hundred dollars for them to do press update, you know

All right. So is it our attorneys technically

The Geeks squad. Yes, I think so

They just have they passed a few exams

I'm not encouraging anyone to represent themselves

That would be so scary

Yeah

So yeah, I would have to have my clips if I'm just gonna represent myself

It's reputable

That's the most terrible thing I've ever heard

So

Um, but Mary does become a bit of a muted character

Yeah, I mean that yeah, I think like

At first she's a very strong character and then she can get very um, I think she's very

Like she has like deep emotions about things and gets you know deeply upset get deeply happy

You know, but then after like

I think even before I don't get to sit back she becomes kind of just like oh, she's there

You know like oh, yeah, there's Mary

No, to get on the relationships of these two characters

Do you think like Mary would I mean she of course would disclose

What you know John junior and the relationships of other people and

All of these things to Adam and I'm wondering you know Adam

I would guess that would have had some relationships as well

So it has a great personality

Yeah, I mean I am

Wondering um, I think that

Adam

Seems like mature enough to have been engaged at some point

Like it's almost like he's worldly that's why I think he might even be younger than I'm saying

But I'm gonna look up how old lindwood boomer was

During the airing that could we just go by that

Yeah

Um

I mean if Mary had a failed one failed engagement. I'm sure he must have had at least one

Failed engagement

What year would he be on Little House, do you know

He's one of 55

He would uh, it would have been I'll see you soon. Yeah, it's

37 77 28

Is age right now? He's 78. No, no, no

He was on Little House in the year 19

Oh, I see I'm 1978 something like that. All right, so they make him 23

Mm-hmm. So yeah, I think we're we're kind of on the money when it comes to that

Um, how does that make him now that makes him 68? I ride

No, six, what was he born 55

So 45 plus 25 is 70

Yeah

Linwood boomer 70 is that right? Yeah

Added to 70

Yeah, how's that possible

It's my math wrong. All right. I want that's right because my my dad was one of 56 and he's gonna be 70 next year

So

Well happy birthday to um

Linwood boomer who just turned uh 70 years old on October 90

Well, we're all getting old all right

Not you though

So

That's just crazy to me when I think of Adam as being in today 70

Well to me he's always that the age that he was in the show

Yeah

At the very least like the one in the Christmas episode

Yeah, but that's not too much, you know older but you think Mary would cover up like you think Mary would be like well

I'm not going to

Um

I want to disclose all of my personal stuff like that. I was gonna get married and we have a little bit of an an Alice Garvey moment

Oh

Who are you talking to um

The like

I was talking about John junior. Who's John junior

So a little bit of a story about a cattillion

I feel like she would have disclosed

That if if if not anything else she would have disclosed that because that was a key

There's a lot of cover-ups in the world of little house in the prairie

We have i mean Harriet

Harriet has hers, you know, she was engaged. Everybody was engaged. Yeah

Nelly was you know nelly was married then it was an old

Um, I know the piece of paper was done up

Yeah, I don't know if that's an old but yeah, it's an old enough, right

Think about that that's technically I mean

There's there's a little bit of polygamy right there

Because it would have to be a legal action right you would have to

I wonder

But what if they didn't consummate I think that that also allowed it to be an old I think that's the

That we're aware of anyway

they

I think if you don't consummate it can be an old but otherwise it can't be I don't know enough about this stuff

What now it is yeah

Oh, I don't know I don't mean anything as possible now

Um

I think if anything should have disclosed uh

John Jr. Yeah, yeah, I agree

Because they feel like we share you know a lot of

You know background and history and with each other and in that Christmas episode we don't get

Um and Adam's story

Oh

Which is really sad because he's one of the few people we don't have a backstory on I mean we got Hester Su's back story and she didn't exist

Um yeah

What have been the end there also would have been nice to have him more because

When the story of going blind or something. I don't I mean not exactly Christmassy, but

Well, yeah, but we get that story in blind journey when he crosses

Um, but the I think that it would have been nice to have him and very more presence or have seen more

interaction with them and for example a monsollum mora because they are there

At least for some time and want to grow

Um, then they're nearby you know, they're in sleepy eye

But when a monsollum mora get together and his whole law thing does kind of falls flat

Yeah, you know, it sees we want to see him work once work one case. Yeah

Like he's like going to be a lawyer one case stuff. Bye

And then now I tried it, you know, not really for me

Um, did they move to New York? Was it?

Mm-hmm, I know that the um

Yeah, John, but it's still there's New York farm

So they moved with uh, Nellie and personal to New York. Yeah, so they establish, you know um

A Caroline's franchise

Can you picture those two those four in New York?

You know like

That'd be kind of interesting. I mean because Mary's still blind

Yeah, that would have been very interesting to get to know a new place

Um

Like well, I guess like it helps to have like Adam has his sight back right so he can be like look after

Uh, in a sense

Um

But that must have been really disorienting to like move to a place

Yeah, especially about them. Yeah, it was definitely going from

Going from like um, even like what they consider to be a busy city to New York, which is a real crazy city

Um at the turn of the and you know living there at the turn of the last entry has it's pretty bananas

There all that pizza

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Any sort of nice that we'll go back to the show

I think that the end of being one of the more memorable couples which is

fictional

Yeah, but I think it's nice that what we what we walk away with is

A celebration of the Mary person like the human

And we celebrate her with a really beloved character and we give her this you know of course fictional

And dramatic life that is just a black cloud over her the whole time pretty much

Right down to like being a four eyes and then

And

Can't kick by horses and

Yeah, mom's cheating on her death

Almost

And she's yelling at Gil Gerard and the ending man

And her sister's imaginary and gone sister

Yeah, she's

Yeah

Grace doesn't even have a bed

We don't even know where she is

Yeah, but you know there's a lot of tragedy with Mary

Individually like that has nothing to do with all of them

Yeah, definitely

It would have been interesting to see them come back like Mary and Adam

Come back or have they gone yet um or appear anyway and like one more and a wands ago through those

That tough time where you know where he gets like when he gets a

He gets diphtheria and then a stroke and then

Or gives birth and then all that like the thing if they had come in

Because they were still in sleepy at that time what they yeah, I mean they're really not that far

So it would have been interesting to see them come in and try and help out

I also think you know it would have been so interesting if

We had more of a connection of Mary in the telephone

Because

Obviously it would be a great way for her to communicate over a distance and it would be

It would be a great way just because she's blind, you know, it's like the same you know and

I don't know I just feel like she would have actually ended up being like she could have run like a switchboard

Maybe she did at the blind school. I doubt it she'd have to like

Be grabbing all the levers and stuff. I don't know if you'd be able to control that if you're blind

but

I don't know I just think um we could have done more with these characters and I feel as though once they

Once we got to about season five they just thought all right, we need to like start phasing these

This character

Yeah, but after season six, it's more focused on more in a manzo and not so much

I'm marrying Adam and I wonder if that was dictated um ahead of time or whether it was dictated by the fans

um

Yeah

If they wanted to see more of because we know that

Or if you had read the books before you saw this then you would have known that or I would get together with a manzo eventually

um

And maybe they wanted to

Where was it dictated by something that wanted to go back to more source material

I also one of the things I think it's really kind of an oversight with all of this is of course finances are discussed here and there

But for the most part

they're really not like

All right when Mary needs to travel somewhere they're like all right how are we gonna pay for this and we're gonna like you know

Do kind of um or go fund me or type of thing which is essentially what happens but

When it comes down to it

we don't know how

Mary and

Adam kind of

Pay for their life

Yeah

Because from what I can tell the school is like they're not paying to be in the school right

But maybe they are

Do you think there's like a tuition

Like I don't do the angles pay to have Mary that's out there maybe

I think they did there's no discussion really

A little bit like we have the owner

He says he's kind of like Lee he's not gonna do this anymore

And he wants to give the school to Adam

Yeah

But he's even broke too like so I mean that's it really um

They're doing it for the goodness of of um mankind not really for profit

Right and then when they move to one that growth they have to ask

To borrow or to loan a couple horses and they give them those

Remember they buy yeah they buy this creatures they're going to standish is

Yes, saloon

Um but I think I

May like I maybe it was enough to cover

Like the students maybe they paid enough to cover

Like for expensive like you know food costs and like

Textbooks or you know like I mean a Hester Sue has to be taking the salary right

I mean it's not too much for free

Yeah

So

It must be there to have a budget remember we did talk about like this is how much it would be to

I don't know whether they were gonna rent or buy the

Blind school they were gonna rent it right so yeah you're right

They must have been paying tuition. I don't believe government was giving grants to blind schools at this point

Not at that time. No, I don't think so um because they were when they're discussing the rent part

I think they can ship in some and then like

Laura chips in you're trying to ship in not the carol and chips in

You know family chips and you know everyone chips in

Um a bit for the rent but they have to have had some kind of income to cover that rent after those two months

But they prove

And we also have this like turbulent relationship between Adam and her his father

Mm-hmm, and then he dies leaving

nothing right yeah

He leaves yeah because he he has owes

Money so they have to use whatever he had to pay the debt

But I don't understand that like you shouldn't be like you're not responsible for someone else's debt

Well, no, no, but the father's money whatever was left of it

All they had to use to pay for his debts first before they can inherit anything right right and they don't end up inheriting

As much as they hoped we should have had that episode called the inheritance too

Spoiler it's gonna be all fall

All right

It's a story that happens to often in real life and in um fiction is the

How much are you gonna have left nothing?

Let me count not say negative

Yeah

But then they have the father

He comes in the first time I think we see him as when she's gonna have that first baby

And then she ends up having a miscarriage and then he leaves in a hurry. I don't remember why

But I think initially he's interested in having this you know air type of thing

Um, and then when he finds out he's not gonna have one he like leaves

Yeah, he's like by and then that's like where you leave me

We're gonna come with you to New York and he's like no, no, you stay

It's better that you stay lots of difficulties in New York. It does seem like a real jerk

Yeah, yeah

Which is kind of amazing that you know Adam turned out as um balanced as he ended up being

I know right um

And then he would meet a

But I guess you know when I do compare Mary's past um relationships

Which really just probably at the very most was kissing right like we're not right um yeah

We

To Alice you know where it was a marriage. So we have I think we can presume that you know they did the deed

Yeah, and I think that's it. I think that's the um upsetting nature the difference between these two things

But I wonder if Alice was that same age like very young

I forget the age that she was young

Because she's still when she's living it out like great because her parents or mother is running the boarding house

Yeah, like that whole situation is really crazy

You know that's a discussion for the future because the whole Alice

Getting married young and her mother having a boarding house almost seems like a madam type of situation or

Some type of financial understanding

Yeah, something sketchy about that whole thing because that dude was a lot older

Yeah, yeah, he was way older. He's old enough to me or the way they

To trade out who's old enough to be your father

Like he he should have been dating the mom

now

Yeah, it's crazy, right

But now don't for pretty little Alice

Well, Christine, I think that kind of sums up what we wanted to talk about

I appreciate taking the time this morning to discuss it

Yeah, of course

No problem

If you're listening at home and you have any suggestions of other pairings or ideas or things we might have missed because I'm sure we missed a whole lot

This is just about a casual conversation about two characters

Um, this one, you know, this one's a little bit closer. So

um discussing two characters that for the most part we're in every scene together after

Season five

Sorry

I remember that one episode where these escape prisoners or whatever take over the bindings line school

Adam is not there for that he goes off on some

Yeah, I will be it would have been interesting to have a little coverage about

After like when he comes home and he realizes oh this thing happened

Yeah, what would my child and my wife would have happened had you been there

Yeah, what would he have done and those type of issues? Yeah, I can believe you forgot about that

Yeah, which is a strange storyline

Doesn't really do so was there either she was was she also like she was also the way I think

Yeah

So it would have been interesting. I mean Laura's there

Yeah, I think the whole point was that Laura was going to

Stay there or she was gonna help out

Yeah, but then things take a quick turn

That's crazy

Yeah, the kidnapping um or kidnapping or home invasion type of things

I always felt as though they kind of felt flat

Yeah, but like um, but that particular episode does have a couple of really dramatic moments

Yeah, she uh, she was

Taken sort of hostage by one of the names remember in season two

Yeah, the two

before yeah in that same house

Um

So it would have been interesting to tie those

Together or something and then have her and I have a discussion wasn't the blind school handsome house

Yeah, but the building anyway was used

Yeah, as that other building where they go and they rent the place

And then she's working for them and then she's yeah, so caught up in all that

And then it's

Yeah

So it would have been interesting to have some kind of post discussion between her and Adam or something about

Yeah, those two and it's really the one incident the one reason that's it

It would have said something stupid and like 70s style like

Well, I got to be there next down or like yeah, well, it's so bad doesn't happen again

And then it's like

I feel like they do give Adam like little tiny

Goofy comments sometimes like to say stuff like that to end it

Um

Like what would he say in that thing at the end um

So

They will marry next time you're coming with me

I don't have so stupid yeah

But um, thank you so much

We better put a bell in on the door

Well, that's it. Yeah, put a bell like when you walk in belting

But Christina, thank you so much. I do appreciate it. Maybe she had an open a walnut Grove cast calm

To find all of your

Special

Episodes and um, yeah, thank you so much and um just stand on it

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