Chapter 4 Ep. 7 Road to the Top

0:00Take your seat, the cars are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the ACES light. Long as running, show you we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call. Hello, A team and welcome back to another episode of the Annie at Poker Podcast, where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host Joe Scales, and A team, we did it. For the longest time, Annie has been sitting at number three, sometimes number four, in this leisure and hobby category of podcasts. We've knocked on the door, we've hovered. I've refreshed the charts probably more times than I should admit. But we just couldn't quite climb over that number three spot.

1:03But as of today, we're number one. Number one, I'm not going to lie. When I looked at that this morning and saw us sitting at the top, that was a moment. I literally sat there and smiled for a little bit, because that's not me. That's us. That's the community. Now, even though getting to number one is incredible, staying there, that's the new goal. And we can only do that the same way we got here. So keep doing what you've been doing. Keep telling your poker buddies about the show. Keep sharing it in your home games. Keep leaving those comments and ratings. Every review, every download, every share helps us reach more and more of the everyday poker player.

2:03I read an article the other day about knowing your place in your business, about understanding exactly who you are and who you serve. We know who we are. We are for the everyday poker player. We are our audience. Hi, Roller, Crusher. Flying private from stop to stop. We're the ones squeezing in a tournament after work. We're the ones planning the poker trip months in advance. We're the ones grinding one, three, or two, five, and loving every minute of it. We're not going to change. We like it here. And honestly, there are a whole lot more of us than there are out there. That's why this works. We've already had people reach out about meaning up with us in Arizona, and we cannot wait to see each and every one of you a healer river. And some of you are

3:04cruising with us in August, and that's going to be an absolute blast. Poker, glaciers, friends. It's it doesn't get much better than that. You guys are what makes Andy go. You're what built this thing way before I got here, and you're exactly what got us to number one in the charts. So cheers to all of you. Seriously, thank you for taking the time each week to listen, to engage, to share, to be a part of the A team community. That's all I've got for now. So let's get on with the show.

4:06Ellen, I are back around the poker table. And you got a new haircut. I did. I did. I told you on the way home. I don't know what it is about a haircut, but it just makes you feel better. It's always a, it can be a stressful thing for women. But once we find the right girl, or guys who are here, fair enough. I look forward to it as well. This is like one of our favorite days on a cut day. I, I wish I could do without the washing of there. That's you're the only person I've ever met. Never said that. But other than that, yeah, I, there are, there are holes along around just going to get your hair washed for women. So I cannot relate. I cannot relate. That is like one of my favorite things. Maybe it's because I'm the only one in my family with hair. So I'm trying to make sure they don't massage it. Okay, fair. Anyway, did you, I'm sure you've seen that the big talk has been the LAPC.

5:11Yeah, this didn't grab my attention because I didn't know the history because I've paid close attention to WSOP and WPT events and MSPT events. And of course, our A&E up tour, there's a lot of different tour stops and events happening. There's so much poker to be played across the world. Yeah, right now. That I hadn't heard of this tournament as frequently. So, but it is a big deal. Yeah, the LAPC used to be the place, the place outside of the World Series. For a $10,000 buy-in. Yeah. So, you know, pre-COVID, they were getting around 500 players. They had 490 in 2020. Then last year was only 145. This year, let this sink in for a minute. This year, they have 50. Yeah, so what is that, is that just, they don't want to travel to LA, is that $10,000 buy-in is not in my bankroll.

6:15Yeah. What's the chatter? Because I haven't read all the posts or seen all the articles. Well, there's a lot of things factored in here. One being that this used to be a WPT event. It's not anymore. Always separate it. Okay. And they don't offer a guarantee now. Well, that's tricky. That's huge. But also, it's a $10,000 buy-in. Yeah. And I think people are a little more bankroll conscious. I am. Like a better word. That's for sure. You know, I don't know who is it right now. Yeah. I mean, honestly, for mid-stakes players who would go and take a chance, or for high-stakes players, they're still making sure they're playing pots that they want to play. Right. I don't know. Yeah. Does that sound silly? No, it doesn't sound silly. I

7:15think you're in the same boat in me. Even if we had the $10,000 to spend on an event, we would rather spread that out to six to eight events. Or right now, I would, yes. Yeah. 100%. And I think travel is getting more expensive. You have to factor in eating out hotel. You don't have to eat out the whole time. I mean, we all know poker players are eat on the cheap sometimes. But like, really and truly, there's a lot more invested in going and playing poker at a destination than meets the eye. Sure. So it's just not a $10,000 trip. It's way more than. Yeah. But we've also talked about this with other poker room directors that this gambling tax law has changed things for a lot of players, right? You know, if the fact that you can only claim 90% of your losses now. I think there's been some revisions

8:19in some states and people that are going to bat for this, though. Yeah. There are people that are going to bat for it. Nothing has been passed. Nothing's come through to help yet. But they are working on it. But right now, that's still a factor, right? So you're going to play lower stakes. Take less hits. Yeah. Yeah. And plus, we've talked about this before on here. Just the mid stakes events are exploding right now. Yeah. That's where it's at. Massive guarantees are being hit regularly, you know? So this doesn't mean poker shrinking, which I think I think people love to point to that. You know, that love to say, we'll see. Poker's dying. You can't take one example. Look at the look at where it is exploding. I mean, the WPT is worldwide now. I mean, they are all over the place. I love following Matt's average and seeing where he's going to be next. Love hearing about his experiences recently in Asia. And where are they now? Oh, this is this falls on me. I was just watching and the name went

9:25right out of my head, but they're everywhere. They're going all over the world. The European, I think there is a WSLP European event that's going to be happening shortly. That was the chatter this morning. You know, if you got a pick, you got a lot more options now. I just think it's the biggest factor to me. And I may be wrong about this because our world is the everyday poker play. Sure. So I feel like there are just so many more people that are bankroll conscious. And so they're in 10,000 at an event like this is only going to be a select few. Well, let's keep our eye out and see what's happening because we do have something that's really exciting that I cannot stop talking about. I'm not going to. I'm not going to stop talking about our last and cruise August 11 to 21. We are partnering with Ladies International Poker series as well as poker player cruises the brand new poker cruising brand on the scene.

10:28Brand new, but with some familiar faces. Yeah, very experienced dealers, tournament directors, concierge service. It is going to they they are not going to have the park where you're going to be on a princess boat, the Ruby princess. Yeah. Which is a smaller ship if you look it up. However, the reason we are doing that is because you can go further into the inside passage of Alaska. August is an amazing time to be in Alaska. The more researching, the more positives. I made a pros and cons list. It's on my computer. Yeah, there are way more pros of going in August. I know what's back to school. I know it's college moving. I know it could be a crazy time. You are not going to regret going on this 10 day poker vacation. Yeah, poker vacation. I mean, you're just not. This is one of those things that so many people have told us. This is on our bucket list. Yeah. So now's the time to do it. Surprise. It could be in 2026. And we would love to have you with this. We also got an amazing details about our our poker room. It's going to be on deck six. So if you

11:31want to look at all the plans, it's going to be on deck six next to the elevators right next to the casino. Poker player cruises is working really hard to like get maybe a buzzer system. So yeah, that's right. You're there to sign up for cash or you bust out of a tournament and you want to play cash. It's going to be where you're waiting for your tournament to start. Yeah, like we're all used to looking on poker at lists and such. That kind of thing. We don't want to expect you to have the Wi-Fi package. So we're going to see if we can't they are working. I should say they are working to see if they can't get some sort of pager system. So pop over place and blackjack way, which play cash. First 100 cabins are supposed to get something special. Right. And let me just tell you we're a third of the way booked. So if you are considering this, reach out to us if you have any questions call poker player cruises. Get online into your research not to mention there's flash sales this weekend. I was I say one going on right now. Yeah, you want a balcony room? There's massive sale. If you take the flash sale, I'm going to give you one caveat warning.

12:36You don't get to pick your room. But if you're getting a balcony room, I don't know that they're backwards. Right. So if you want to take a really gamble on your room, take the flash sale. Thank you so much. Take the flash sale deals. Sign up for emails from Princess Cruises. I'm finding out about a new one like every four or three or four days. They're running something. When you call poker player cruises to book, let them know you are with anti up. And then also if there's a flash sale, be sure and you want to take a risk on not being able to pick your room, tell them tell them. Yeah. I know I sound like a broken record. I'm just trying to get it out there. Yeah. We're going to have four bull sea days, which means nonstop poker while we're at sea. Yeah. And I think there's a welcome party. And I think poker kicks off like 45 minutes after we are moving. We're going to go into the Golden Gate Bridge too. Okay. That's fair. But we're leaving from San Francisco. So yeah, make sense. Yes. I didn't think about that. But yeah. So Golden Gate Bridge glaciers. We'll see all the wildlife.

13:43I mean, yeah, the excursions that you can book off of the cruise when we're hitting those certain port dates are going to be really fun. There's going to be a tag team event. There's going to be a ladies event. There's going to be an anti up mean event plan to have fun. Right. That is and meet people. Yeah. Meet more poker players. And that's true. You're going to see a lot of the same faces that you've probably seen that you've seen before, whether it's the staff or players. Right. But also new new players and new faces because with this new venture, you know, we're joining with, like you said, lips and we're joining with poker player cruises. Right. So it's going to be some new people, but there's going to be a lot of the same faces. And yeah, it's all about community. It is. It is. And I'm excited to get there. And go on vacation. Yeah. Just honestly, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really looking

14:45forward to unwinding. We can't be offline, but we still have a podcast to put out. We're going to be fine. That's it. That's going to be we've put the podcast out in a lot of places. Yeah. Never from a cruise ship or Alaska or Alaska. Yeah. But also if you want to brush up on some poker before you head out. Yeah. I'm sure. Yes. This is something that I also, we cannot not mention. Yeah. Octopus poker is doing a training 90 days for 90 dollars. I'm signing up today. I'm going to do some math here. Hold on. That's with a dollar a day. 90 days 90 dollars. Let me just tell you, there was a free, which you can go back and watch this on YouTube, like a YouTube live today. Yeah. It was 10 a.m. Pacific.

15:48One full hour of walking you through. What is going to be happening for the entire 12 weeks, how it's going to be scheduled. All of the tools on Octopus poker that you are going to get to have at your fingertips. There is a new challenge every single day. There's going to be a discord community, which some people are like, yeah, I've been on discord. Nobody's talking. You have to participate. Right. Yeah. You can't just be a observer in a discord channel. Yeah. I am doing this. I'm excited. I'm a little overwhelmed because there's an assignment every single day. However, if you don't get to one, they give you another day. I mean, it's not like it. It's self-paced. Yeah. And there is a there is a instruction every Friday. And then there is a new challenge or a new lesson that's like assigned or released every day. Yeah. And there's there's some prizes that they're giving away for. Yeah, they're not sure what those are yet. But listen, I've got poker delivers. So I'm not even worried about that. I'm not worried about the prizes. I am excited because the focus of this is not just online player. Right.

16:54Because that was that was a big question. It is it is sharpening your poker game in general. If you're playing poker in person live or online, it's still poker. You are still having to adjust or predict your opponent. And so that's what Matt was saying today is it's really increasing your game. And the whole hope is this is tournament focused. Is so you can walk into the summer season prepared. I'm I'm saying I'm walking on to that cruise prepared. Yeah. And excited to possibly participate in some bluffers. Tournament that are happening online. Yeah, but yeah, because I'm trying to get to win a seat out to make them play in a lift tournament. We'll see. But long story short, I'm ready to study. And I think this is an easy bite way bite size way because I've been overwhelmed. Yeah, and where do I go? I'll say this, you know, yeah, I'll say this for a lot of us, recreational players, right? $100 a month is a lot of money to invest in learning.

18:02It can be yes. So this is $100 less than for yeah, less than $100 for 90 days. Yeah, three months. So it's a different entry point for us. And it sounds like a great structure for for novice and intermediate players as well. So I'm excited. I want to see how this how this looks for sure. I'm nervous, but I'm looking forward to Emily nervous because I haven't done super study. Yeah, this will be for sure. This will be your first for right. But I think that that it's good that you learned the game. You've gotten comfortable with the game. And now you're ready to take that next step. Well, because I can feel it. Yeah, even even at our home game when we had two tables going last week. That was hilarious. And I was a ping pong ball making pizza rolls and hurting dogs around and you know, all that. But I'm learning how to host and not have to feel like

19:04have to do anything. I don't know if you guys ever host a home game and you feel like, oh my gosh, I gotta do all this stuff all the time. You know what? Just make it easy on yourself. Like get all that stuff done in advance. I did I did pretty well until about halfway through and then everybody's getting hungry. So yeah. But anyhow, I digress. I made a point where I know there's more I need to know. But I don't know what I don't know. Right. And I'm getting frustrated. So it's been a really good challenge for me up until this point. But now what I'm doing is not working. Right. And now I'm getting a little bit peeved. But but you are starting to think about the game differently. And this is going to help you grow that part. So I think it's huge. It's going to be huge for you. I think it's good for listeners. Yeah. Well, in the 12 weeks is laid out where it's not going to be. I think some of these study courses have been overwhelming to me because it's like, they just jump right in and I see him. And I'm like, I don't know that that's I need some

20:09bites. And it's like the first two weeks is going to be getting used to how to use the platform and how to do the challenges and how to get on the chat boards and all that. Like really just basic things, pre-flop study, that kind of thing. And then it's going to build. So the whole point is when you get to week three, then they're full on it. Yes. So we're not spending a long time walking into the pool. But we're also not getting pushed off in the deep. And that's what I need it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's it's I'm really interested to see how this works out. And I keep us posted here on on the podcast too so that people can see maybe keep keep an eye out on the socials. You might be putting some stuff out there as well. But what else we have? What a shout out to all my ladies get ready to play in the Arizona women's championship. It's happening. Yeah. They're on their way. If you go to WPAs,

21:10socials, there's a lot of good info out there right now for signups, that kind of thing. I think it's a talking stick. Okay. This year. And so I'm going to be paying close attention. Yeah. Yeah. See if you know any of those names. See what's going on. I think there's some fun stuff going on. Thoughts woods this weekend. That's my chatter. Okay. I'm excited. That's what I've been hearing from the everyday ladies. We're there headed this week. I'm excited because we're adding something to the studio this weekend. Yeah. You're going to be hanging them. Wasn't going to tell them. Oh, but cast out of the bag. I know. Yeah. It's going to be back here. We're going to be able to have some fun with that with some different things behind us. And so yeah. I'm looking forward to that. I think you're also looking forward to the fact that all of our grandchildren are coming to make cookies on Saturday. So there's going to be a lot of sweet treats in this house. I can eat for sure. Yeah. So with all that in mind,

22:16that's always a pleasure being around the table with you. Likewise. To say how he would rule on situations that come up in your games and he's with us again this week. Elliott, how's it going, man? Oh, thanks. Going pretty well. Thanks to one last week. How you doing today? Good. You know, we get a little taste of the warm weather and then gone. So I'm in hibernation mode again. Sorry. It gives me more time to catch up on podcasts like this one. So we have a call the floor this week sent in by Max Durham. He says, I'm playing a local tournament. Blinds are one, two,

23:24with a two K big blind Andy. I have about 85 K stacks says he's got about 85,000 and villain has him slightly covered. Action folds to me and I open for five K. And it folds to the big blind who tanks for a bit before grabbing a tall stack of one K chips about 20 of them. He says clearly more than a call. He moves the stack forward toward the middle starts the lower them. He's about to put them into the pot, but they never touched the felt. He pauses while still holding them in the air and asks me how much I'm playing. I don't say a word. I just lift my hands off the felt so he can see my stack. He studies my chips for a little bit, then pulls the stack of one K chips back to

24:25his own stack and says, okay, I just call. He puts that stack down and throws out three K more to complete the total to 5,000. The dealer says nothing. Action proceeds, but he has some questions here. So this is more of a rules question. He says, what constitutes a raise? Do chips have to touch the felt? Does crossing the betting line matter, which we've talked about before, or is forward motion enough? He says, I felt like this was an angle attempt, but wasn't sure of the rules enough, so didn't say, didn't call the floor. But after the fact, I thought maybe I should have what do you think? So he's got a lot to kind of sort out there. Let's start with what actually does constitute a raise? Like, at what point does all of the, you know, that stack of chips at what

25:26point is that considered he's making a raise? When they're move forward and left on the table, betting lines are not universal. Moving chips out and not touching the felt generally doesn't obligate one to a bet, especially in rooms without a betting line. Even in rooms with a with a betting line, it's not a hard and fast line in most places is generally a courtesy line, which makes you put your bets out far enough that people can see them separated from your stack and they're close enough to the dealer for the dealer to reach them. So very rarely is it a hard and fast action line is generally a courtesy line. And going through the TDA rules, this very specific action is not covered, especially heads up. If the chips don't hit the table, generally there's no bet or obligation of a bet. So

26:32playing doubles, doubles advocate here. On those times when somebody picks up a big stack of chips, they go out to the middle and they just start cutting out chips. And then you pull back, however many they have left and they set them down. There's no there's no rule against that. There's no way of of keeping them from from just keep putting chips out until they get a reaction or something like that. Well, if you're cutting chips into the pot, especially forward of your stack, you can't take back any of the chips that were cut. You can only take back the chips that were not cut into the pot. So there's only so much reaction you can get. Some people try to elongate this procedure to get a reaction. But again, they're still putting chips in the pot. It's still their turn. The key is if there's an actual pause. And once again,

27:33this is much less applicable heads up. This is multi way when you're trying to get a read on people who haven't yet acted on their hand. Right. I mean, it's pretty common to get a read on the guy who's put the bed out. You want to see how they're going to react to a raise or not. And yeah, that happens. Sometimes it's right. Sometimes it's not right. But that role again is not universal. In some rooms, once you move forward with chips, all the chips in your hand have to play. And in some rooms, you move forward with chips and you just get to cut out the amount of the wager. So again, that's not hard and fast. And let's face it, it's very hard to pick up the exact amount of chips you need to put into the pot to constitute a call. If somebody bets, say they bet 12,000, well, it's hard to pick up exactly 12 chips.

28:39And if you're taking the time to count out exactly 12 chips, you're wasting time. It's easier to pick up the whole stack count out and cut out 12 and bring them back. That's fast. It expedites the game. It's fair. It's very rarely as move or angle being played. So again, it doesn't always have to apply that when you move forward with chips, all the chips have to play. There's a lot of cases to be made against that particular rule. And there are plenty of cases to be made in favor of the rule. I mean, again, and it all has to do with reaction, string betting, angle shooting. That is the drawback to having a broad set of codified rules. When you define the rules very well and keep adding rules to the rulebook, you are very explicitly and more broadly defining the gray area and the places that angles can be shot at. So again, this is certainly in that category.

29:49And this is a pretty blatant abuse of one's ability to get a read. I mean, it would have been more reasonable to ask what the betting player had behind before any chips were moved forward. That's much more reasonable. And I would hope that whoever was running the tournament and noticed would have said something to the player away from the table. Again, that's not adding anything to the game and doesn't really need to occur on a regular basis. Right. And that's to the point here that he makes at the end. He didn't call the floor, but after fact, thought maybe he should have. I don't know that, and you jump in here too, but I don't know that he needed to necessarily call the floor for that, but at least, you know, ask for a clarification of that rule. Like if you're not, if you're not clear what

30:52constitutes betting, there's no harm, especially, you know, after the hands over, you can say, so just here, just so I'm clear, just so I'm understanding, what constitutes a bet in that situation? Is it going across the line? Is it dropping the tips? Whatever. There's no harm in asking a question after the fact. Right. Yeah, you feel free to go up to the floor and ask. It's definitely good to have the clarification and to make sure that if what happened shouldn't have happened or should have been policed a little better, then yeah, the tournament directors need to know about it. If it's a pretty laissez-faire room and generally that's pretty common too, especially in Las Vegas, the floor is going to say, hey, his chips didn't hit the pot, it's still his turn to act. He's acting. So yeah, but you still would like to get clarity in the moment. Yeah, so yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. Please, I mean, that's absolutely part of our job

31:56as tournament directors and operators is to have these conversations, let people be heard and give the right advice and consultation. I feel like if you think something is an angle, the way you combat somebody angle shooting is to know the rules so that you don't react to them in any way. If you know that he doesn't make a bet until he lays those chips down, then you're not going to give him any information. Exactly. So the more you know, well, isn't that NBC or something? Yes, it is. I can't remember the actual jingle, but yes, that is exactly it. And again, it's good to know whether the betting line is an actual hard fast line or whether it's merely a courtesy line. It's good to know those things and it's never printed on the felt and it's

32:56almost never in the actual printed rules on a tournament format sheet. So those are good things to ask. Those are good things to check with even if you're just asking the dealer before the cards get in the air. Forward motion, again, is more of a multi-way thing because generally it applies when player A bets, player B is moving forward with chips, but it hasn't done anything in player C's caller. So his forward motion, especially in a limit game, is going to be counted. And in no limit, it may not be counted at all because let's face it, in no limit, it's especially important that somebody's hand doesn't, somebody's turn in the betting does not end until they have completed their bet because obviously they can bet any amount in limit. That doesn't matter. They can only bet one amount or arrays to two bets or three bets. So again, forward motion is

34:02definitely not going to be identical across the various games, but how does forward motion get enforced? So yeah, those are good things at all. Yeah. Yeah. And so it sounds like in this case, there probably was no rule broken per se. It may have been an angle that they were trying to shoot here, but knowing the rules helps you combat that. And so yeah, you should probably talk to the floor, even if it's after the fact, and get a clarification. And that also allows them to keep an eye on the player and say, oh, well, he's pushing that limit. Maybe I need to have a little conversation with him. Absolutely. But yeah, Max, that's, that's a good, good point. I appreciate, appreciate you sending that in because it's always good to get, I don't know how many times

35:07we can reiterate that it would be enough. There's not enough times that we can say, if you have a question, ask, ask the question, um, get clarification, make sure you understand the rules. Absolutely. That doesn't mean stop the action and call the floor every time that, um, you know, think you were wronged, but at least, uh, whether it be after the, after the hand or whatever, ask the questions, get clarification, and, uh, know what should and shouldn't be going on. Absolutely. Um, that's, that's a good one. Max, I appreciate you sending it in. If anyone has a call the floor that they would like to know how Elliott would rule, send it to podcast at any at magazine.com. Elliott, thanks again. We're welcome. We'll see you next week. Look at Farah too.

36:15Welcome to Hand of the Week. We're Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listeners submitted hands. Each week, we tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make it scratch your head, whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have laid it any better. We've got you covered. Patrick has it going, man. Quick nod. Um, you know, this is absolutely a poker podcast. I'm going to talk about other sports on here at all. Um, cheers to the US men's and women's hockey team. Absolutely. Yes. Taking down the, the, our, our friends, um, foes, whatever you want to call them from the great white North, you know, listen, you guys had one sports and one sport only and you invented hockey and we appreciate you have been in it. And now we own you. So, um, cheers. We own you. Yeah, it was a cool moment to see them bring out the, uh, the jersey. Yeah. And, um,

37:16and paying homage to sit to him. But yeah, that very cool. Congratulations to USA team, both men and women's and, um, yeah. Let's jump in. That's awesome. It's great. We can. Yeah. Absolutely. What do we got? Who do we, who, who do we got first? This one's sent in by Connor Peck. Okay. And Connor is playing two five, no limit, hold him. He says, I had been playing PLO only the last few months, but the game was full. So I joined the hold him table. He says, I may have been a little rusty. And the table was pure tourist chaos with four drunk guys on a bachelor party. One knit and a younger player in the cutoff who's been three betting any two cards all night. Hey, I think you've been playing against one of those recently. We just talked about this.

38:19Yeah. Yeah. Sure did get one of those. And it wasn't a three bet. It was just, and they were calculated. I'll give them that. But it was whatever came out of his fingers as he's over there shuffling chips. So, you know, you know, you're, um, you sat at the table the other night for four minutes and said, Hey, I need to buy back again. So there's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think in this case, he probably just saw an opportunity with the, with the drunk players and the knit at the table. And, and so I don't blame him a bit. Yeah. Connor says he's already shown down King five suited as a three bet bluff and seven doose as a bluff raise saw a couple of those. The table is laughing every time he tanks because they know what's coming. He says, I have about seven hundred and twenty dollars in this in this hand. And then in the middle position when it folds

39:21to me with the ace of diamonds queen of clubs. All right. Well, Mommy, did he say where that, uh, that three better is he said he was in the cutoff. So, Hello. Exactly. I was like, I'm targeting that young kid. Yeah, that's what I'm going, right? I mean, I'm going to sit there and be jolly with the drunk and idiots, but well, that's a good question, Joe. And I'm going to actually let you normally, you let me go first on this one. Um, I've, I've, I've written down what I'm going to bet. So I won't change. But do you already read that? Okay. Yeah. So my, the, the question on the table to you is, do you target him in the sense of coming over the top? Do you check into him? I mean, you've already said you're going to target him. Well, we can't check. We got to, well, I know that. It's all with us. Correct. Are you, are you targeting him? Are, are we going, are we going back at him? Or we just, so we've got it, we've got a really great hand. And I'm going to try and

40:27get him to three bet me. So I'm going to open small. Then hope that he raises small like 15. 15 is exactly what I was looking for yet. I'm, I'm going 15. Nice. So yeah, I'm going 15 looking for him to raise. Now the question that I pose to you, if he does come over the top, do you want to call or do you want to four bet? You know, that's a very good question. And I would say, I personally would probably call whether it's right or wrong, but I would probably call it. I'm, I'm making this move with the intention of four betting, if he, if he three bets. So, let's see what Connor does. Connor opens for $20. Okay. And the only the cutoff call. So he didn't

41:29come over the top. He just called. And he says he has about $680 in his stack before making the call. So the pot is $47. And the flock is the ace of spades, eight of hearts, five of diamonds. Connor says, dry as the Sahara. All right. Who would be there? Good kicker. Push the action. 30. Okay. Um, maybe actually a little less, because if, if this guy is notorious for that, let's go a little bit less and invite it. Um, that's what I was thinking. 20. That's where, that's exactly where I was thinking. See the fact that this is what I was getting at earlier, Joe, what I'm sitting here, I can think through it. But when I'm sitting at the tables, man,

42:35I just get all the thinking goes out the window. Yes. Well, that is just too much thinking. One of those, one of the two. Um, all right. So we're on the same page 20. I like that fact that just called the fact that he just called makes me think he has some fun hands that he wanted to get into the mix with. He didn't want us to fold. So makes me think of suited connectors, um, suited Broadway cards, maybe some medium pairs in there. So if we check here, then I feel like that saying, oh, we're super strong. And we get the check back because this is a typical Seabed situation. So if we don't do that, then it just sends alarm bells off. I feel like, right. So bet the $20 and hope that they come along or raise. Connor went with your first number. He bets 30

43:36and our villain just calls. So it is fun too. I mean, I, you know, yeah. I mean, the fact that he called us is good because I still feel like we're ahead. The pot is $107. The turn is the two of spades. So the board is ace of spades, eight of hearts, five of diamonds, two of spades. It's a second spade and three, four makes it straight now. See, there's a great point right there. All I saw was three, four. Didn't even don't know me about the spades. I gotta use this big old brain. I'm on, okay. That being said, I mean, I feel like, you know, playing Conner's Hand, I feel like you lean into him again. You know, $107. I'm going

44:37less than half pot. I mean, I'm still very pretty confident. So I'm probably going, I mean, playing Conner's Hand, he bets 30. So I would say probably 45, maybe write that 50 if you wanted to. Well, I'm thinking I definitely still want to put money in here. But now that so much more has opened up, then I want to start making it hard, giving, making a decision hard for him and making them make a mistake by just call it. Gotcha. So I definitely think it would be a mistake to like check for pot control or something like that. But I'm probably going a little bit bigger now, like 65. Okay. Because another point to that, if we check here and he bets big, right,

45:43then we're in a guessing game. But if we bet and they raise, it's a whole lot easier to interpret. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Couldn't have said it better yourself. Check in here and you know, to catch another check, then so be it. I mean, I guess that maybe kind of leads into your pot control. But if you check here and you catch up, you know, of 65, 75 pot bet, then you're literally just going, okay, well, you could have anything, you know, and yeah, definitely. Seven doose unsuited. I this definitely tells you a lot more. You know, you consistently continue to tell the story. You push limits a little bit and you push him to the edge. So yeah, I liked that. Connor goes even bigger than than I did. He bet 70. Okay. In parentheses, he puts continued value. Villain raises to 200. Connor says tough spot right here, top pair, top kicker on a dry board

46:51versus it's not so dry anymore. But versus a guy who loves to raise light, sets two pair straight draws, pure air that he thinks could get us a fold. All of those make sense to me. What do you want to do with that? That's a really good question. There's a lot more on here. I mean, don't get me wrong. I straight could have gotten there, but I don't think I'm coming back over the top, even though I know you are. I'm not actually. Oh, really? Okay. Well, I'm just calling. I was just kind of formulating what I was going to say here. And I think three, I think coming over the top is bad because then we just fold out bluffs. We get called or shoved on with sets or better. And then we're kicking ourselves for overplaying top

47:55pair. Yeah. So I think raising is off the table for sure. It's fold or it's call. Yeah. I think I think I'm comfortable enough to call against that kind of player knowing that, yeah, I mean, he could be sitting on three, four. I think of another spade comes out and depending on how things play out, I don't mind folding that one. You know, if any combination of you know, three, four, six, you know, anything around those numbers, you know, we'll see. I'm calling them. Well, the other side to what you're saying is if we call here, then the pot's going to be over $500. Yeah. And neither one of us are going to have 500 in our stack. No. So it sets up a river shove, which basically means if we call here, we're playing for stacks.

48:57So you're thinking now, are you changing your thought process? Are you telling me that I should make sure I think about this? I'm just I'm just throwing out the possibilities here. Aggressive players, especially ones that show bluffs are typically doing so in order to get paid when they have it, right? Yeah. But that two of spades that didn't change anything really. I don't see them having three, four. I'm really not either. I think if we fold here, what are we continuing with if we're folding here, right? Ace King. Ace King only. That's too exploitable. Maybe Connor tanks and calls. Pot now is $507. Connor says I have about 450 left. Villain has about 410 left. And the river is the jack of hearts. So the board is Asia Spades, Eight of Hearts, Five of Diamonds,

50:05two of Spades, Jack of Hearts. Well then. Well then. I mean top pair close to top kicker. Spades aren't there. Hearts aren't there. The guy's not over three, four. Maybe he's got pocketates. Maybe. I feel like before this came that he could have been holding Ace Jack, you know, Queen Jack, maybe. I'm thinking the only two things that be this realistically are Ace Jack or Eats. And I don't know that he has either one. But I might check here with a, I'm just going to call. And if I lose a little bit, I lose a little bit of money in here first, because if we're, if we do, if we bet now and he's bluffing, then we kind of let him off the hook,

51:12great, because then he can fold. Yeah. If we check and he's bluffing, then he may shove. And if he jams, and we got a decision, I'm not going to, I'm not going to feel great about it, but I'm still going to probably do it. I check. Yeah. So check, check, Connor also checks. Villain bets 350 into 507, leaving himself $60 about behind. If he's called, Connor says another tough spot. Do you hero call top pair top kicker against the sessions, biggest over better? Why does he keep saying top kicker? You're right. It's not the top kicker. It's, it's a good Connor. Let me tell you, I'm not calling you out, because I get called out

52:15every single week. Joe and I have a laundry list of complaints about how Patrick uses terminology wrong. Um, I just want to make sure I wasn't missing anything. So I'm not calling you out. Um, I'm calling. I, I, I, again, I don't think he's got, I mean, if Ace Jack gets there, I gotta see it. Um, let me, let me ask you this. What do you make of the $60 left behind? A lot actually. Okay. Same work. He's trying to, in my humble opinion, push us off of this. And if we decide to go ahead and call, because he's got, you know, King Queen and never hit anything of spades or, yeah, I don't think he thinks he has the nuts by any means. And I think he wants some leftovers. So you think he's, he's doing it for protection for of himself. Like, he's not all in. Correct. Okay. In a lot of spots, I think this usually

53:19means that it's a, a bet for value, because if someone is bluffing, then they're, they tend to go all in or just give up. Yeah, but that's a big value bet. If you're just leaving yourself 60 out of 410, right? What you, if you're, if it's a value, wouldn't it be lower? Well, if, if his, if his goal, if he's bluffing in his goal is to get us off of the hand, then he's gonna want to put all of his chips to use to make that happen. And 60 dollars isn't necessarily going to help him later. Like, in a lot of cases, it's, it's more, that shows that it's more for value than for a bluff. However, that's the only part of this equation that gives me hesitation. We were all expecting this dude to raise, right?

54:25Yeah. And, and when spaves turn into an actual draw and then a straight draw gets there, even though it's not a good one, it's all that he needed to try to steal the hand. Is that what he was doing here? I don't know. It's, it's a close one, but I'm leaning. I do, I do want to do something with you, though, Patrick. Let's, let's. Okay. Get you to look at this from a math standpoint. Break out my Excel spreadsheet. No calculator, because I want you to do this just like you're going to be at the table. All right. And we're not going to go through all of the math reasoning part of it. But, we can do that off of the air if you want to do that. Fair. But, what percentage of the pot is the $350 into 507?

55:29I think that's 75. If you, if you to make it easy, but yeah, I mean, you're close. If you take the 300 into 500, right, if you just round them, then it's around 60%. 400 into 500 is about 80%. So it's about 70 because it's in that middle, right? This is where some of the memorization part of it will help you as well. So write these down and bring them into every hand of the week until you know them by heart. Quarter pot, if somebody bets a quarter pot, you have about 16% equity or you need about 16% equity. Okay. Third pot, you need about 20% equity. Half pot is about 25. Two thirds pots, about 29%, three quarter pots, about 30%. Pot size is about 33%. And what else do we

56:39have? If somebody overbests the pot like two times the pot, then you need about 40%. And what we have here is what? About a two third size pot bet, right? Yeah. So if that's the case, then it's like 29%. So we have to be right about 30% of the time for the call to be profitable. Does that change your mind at all in this particular case? Actually a little bit. Yeah. Look, when you put it like that, yeah, I think it does a little bit. Yeah, I think it does a little bit. But again, I think, you know, and you can, I don't make them on three, four. I really don't think it's an ace jack, but it's definitely within

57:39the realm. Aids are there. I really think it was, you know, I like I said, you know, a king queen, even a king jack, king ten of spades, they kept to go when they missed. And I think I'm still making this call. Yeah. What you have to look at is, is this person bluffing 30% of the time? And it sounds like he's capable of doing that, right? It does. So in this case, I probably make the call, but also know that against a two five player, I find a fold here most of the time because turn raises and the river follow through are way underbluft at this level. So normally, I'm probably folding, but in this particular case,

58:41I'm probably calling Connor ends up making the call as well. And the villain in quotes sheepishly tables, the seven of spades, six of spades. Open ender on the flop, right? Yep. Yeah, six, seven. Yep. Flustre on the turn and the river breaks both. He says the table erupts and the bachelor party loses their minds, but they did what a call. The young player ends up tilting and spears off two buy-ins by the end of the night. Ouch. Live by the bluff, die by the bluff. Oh, absolutely. Hey, Connor doesn't ask any specific questions in this one, but I think it's a great hand that's,

59:47this hand is a great reminder that that poker isn't usually about whether you're right or wrong. You know, it's about whether your decision making makes money long-term. And if this guy is bluffing here 30% of the time you have to call. If he's bluffing 10% of the time, you have to fold. Yeah. The key is knowing your player pool. And you have to be honest about it, because just because somebody showed down a bluff one time does not mean that they're bluffing all the time. Right. And so you can't you can't convince yourself of that, but you also can't convince yourself that they're never bluffing. So know your player pool. I think that's the final piece of advice for this hand. Any closing thoughts there, Patrick? No, I think, Connor, you played this one great.

1:00:49I think it's a great pot. It was a great call. I like the thinking through this. Myself and the rest of the novices have some homework to do on pot equity. Yeah, memorize that chart. It helped you a lot. And yeah, if anyone has a hand of the week, that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to podcast at any at magazine.com. Patrick, we'll catch you next week. Tell the good play. We'll see you then, Bob. The Boots with Deal in Stories Act 3. Do you ever notice how bad poker players are at living in the moment? We're either replaying the last hand or stressing about the next one. We're wired for results.

1:01:56We bust a tournament and spend the drive home redeling the same hand in our head. Or we bagged chips and immediately jumped to. So what's our plan for tomorrow? Very rarely do we just sit in the hand. We're actually in. And it's funny because that's literally what poker demands from us. Play the hand you're in. Right now, we've got some big things coming up. He'll a river long but it'll be our first time in Arizona, a new poker room, new scenery. Then it's Alaska with glaciers and wildlife, poker on the open seas. It's easy to fast forward. What's the turnout going to be like? How will I run? Will it be worth it? Or even to drift backward and focus on the past results?

1:02:58But the only thing that exists today, the packing, the planning, the excitement, the conversations, the preparation, that's the moment. Think about the first time you sat at a final table. Before the cards were even dealt, there's the electricity. The lights feel brighter. The chips sound louder. Your heart rate ticks up just a little bit. That moment before anything is decided is alive. And too often, we waste it by jumping ahead to the payout sheet in our minds. You know, what if I bust first instead of just thinking, this is pretty cool. Living in the moment isn't soft. It's not passive. It's discipline. It's the ability to say, I don't control the river card and I don't control the payout jumps and I don't control variants.

1:04:03But I do control this decision, this breath, this hand. Poker punishes you when you're not present. And if you're still mad about the last pot, you miss play the next one. If you're obsessing over the trophy, you skip all the small edges right in front of you. Life's the same way. We miss the first time in Arizona because we're worried about how the event will end. We miss the beauty of Alaska because we're thinking about the social media posts. We miss the joy of sitting at the table because we're calculating what it means instead of feeling what it is. But what if we flipped that? What if the goal wasn't to rush to the result, but to fully experience the moment? There are only a handful of big moments in

1:05:05life. The winds, the trophies, the headlines. But there are thousands of small winds. The shuffle of chips, the first step into a new poker room, the sound of laughter at the table, the quiet confidence that we can have before the cards are in the air. Those are the in-between hands. And they do matter. You don't have to ignore the future. You don't have to pretend outcomes don't matter. But you can choose to be present while they're still undecided. Enjoy the first time. Enjoy the build up. Enjoy the unknown. Because once the river card hits, that moment's gone. So as we head toward Arizona, as we count down to Alaska, as you think about your next tournament, your next shot, your next big swing, don't live in the last hand. Don't live in the

1:06:15final payout. Play the handry in and don't rush through the in-between hands. That's today's one-outer. That's today's show. I'll see you next week, 18. And until then, I'll see you at the tables. 3-3-9-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editor at anyupmagazine.com.