BUCKEYES BUMMER with BRIAN EVANS

0:00If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off. And Granger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1800 Granger, visit Granger.com or just up by Granger for the ones who get it done. From the halls of the sampling, you hear a screaming shout. I love how the theater is mannequin about where everything I you we discussing in manner. We won't be satisfied until we heard another banner. Was the goofy guys go by names of ordinary and as you probably know by now who's your aesthetics? Who's your aesthetics? Who's your aesthetics? Who's your aesthetics? Hello, Ward. Can we just get this over with? Yeah. I mean, look, we are minutes after

1:05Indiana got dog walked, boat raced, embarrassed, taken to the woodshed, asked beaten by a mediocre Ohio State team, a team in a program that would he had no trouble beating for the last four years, a program that is not good. And we're going to get into that, but before I'm angry, I'm angry. I'm like, look, man, I'm pissed off. I am. I've been really good this year. I'm not being pissed off. But Northwestern game pissed me off. And this game pissed me off. And the only thing that's keeping my head on my shoulders is the fact that I'm wearing this hat on top of it, which says national champions, because that's what Indiana football is. But before we get to any event, Ward, we are powered by

2:12fade out community cars. You know, in a world where you can't rely on beating teams like Northwestern at home or Iowa at home or shitty teams like Northwestern or you're talking about basketball, not football. I am. I'm saying in a world where you can't rely. I'm sorry, because we beat all those teams in football. I was just remembering how wonderful that was. But you're right. You're right. We're here to talk about basketball as that is. In a world where you can't rely on those things that you thought you could rely on. It's good to know you can rely on community cars to take care of you if you've got to buy or lease a new or used car. You know who's undefeated all-time national champs, community cars, undefeated national champs, number one on our hearts, number one in all the consumer polls, all the consumer polls, when they take polls of people who are satisfied with their car dealership in Indiana and central

3:15southern Indiana and the Midwest and the Continental 48 and the North American continent, writ large. Community cars comes in number one in the polling all the time, unanimous. They are the 76 team or, and if you saw me just now, I looked at my hat because I remembered our conversation about what do we call the football team and I took the side of how crazy can you be that you don't know? And I completely forgot. Do we say we're the 26 champs? Are we the 25 champs? Well, how could we be the 76 to 26 champs, the 50th anniversary? Like everybody's like, oh, it's exactly 50 years, exactly 50 years. But if you say it by the names, it's 49 years. It's just we got to get on the same page here people. Yeah, it was 50 years by the calendar year of the year we won the game in. I mean, let's just let's just get that on a t-shirt. It was we won the basketball championship in 1976. We won the football championship in 2026.

4:19People are trying to make this more complicated than they should. I agree. So that's what community cars is. They are the 2026 1976 teams because my Rose Bowl hoodie is 2026 Rose Bowl chips. I know, but yet this hat says 2025. It doesn't make sense. Eric just like this basketball team being so shitty doesn't make sense. All right. Well, look, we got a lot to say about it, but it's been a while since we've had on one specific particular guest to weigh in on basketball. We have not had him on this year to weigh in on basketball since the very beginning. We had him on right at the top of the year. Didn't we? Because he was talking about what he saw and what he liked. Uh, yeah, and we and we talked to him right after the championship in football or was it one of one of the bowl games? I think so, but just about football. I didn't think, but it's been a while since we talked to him about basketball and he is of course. Oh, number 34. Oh, lefty. Big 10

5:20player of the year NBA draft pick NBA career. One of the best players to ever wear the candy stripes. Big 10 champion made the final four made sweet 16s made lead eights. He is none other than Brian Dutch Evans. All right, man. Well, look, first off, how are you? It's been a while. How are you? Good. Very good. Thanks. Very polite, very professional. All right, man. So it's been a while since we talked to you about basketball. I think more than I were just talking about. I think the last time was more of a football. Can you believe this is happening? And we were comparing Kurt's dignity to Bob Knight and talking about the similarities there. You know, this season, what's your take, man? What's your initial take? Because I think we can all agree this season is over now after losing that game in horrific fashion to a mediocre Ohio State team. What's your take on what we saw this year? Well, the preseason schedule didn't tell us a lot.

6:31You know, at the Marquette game, I was kind of flying high, you know, thinking Marquette would end up better than they were. And we played better. I mean, we played, I'm thinking from like, right now, what we've been seeing, we were playing a lot better back then than we are now. That's disappointing. And we how do you mind, Brian, just like what you saw then, compared to what you see now, like where the day, right? Gresham was. And some of it's the big 10. I mean, so I think it's the best scouted league there is. Yeah. And they make things harder. You know, but again, didn't know who Marquette would be. And at the time, you know, flying a little bit high, then we had that stretch. The West Coast, you know, with you guys read the games and winning out there. It felt like a big deal. And the team just, you know, the ball was moving better and more people were involved. And godly in the last couple weeks, it's just kind of gotten

7:33worse and worse. Starting with the Northwestern game. That was the one that I think when we look back on the season, we'll just circle in the calendar. That's when the season came off the rails because you win that game. I feel like we were, you know, easily going to be in the tournament. And you just can't have a loss like that at that point in time when the other team had nothing to play for. Yeah. I actually, to back it up, I actually think it was the USC game is where the wheels started to come off because we did grind out a win at UCLA. Not granted. UCLA was playing out without their one or two best player, but we grinded out a win at Pauli, which was a big win. And then we shit the bed against USC, which was a bad team, a mediocre team. Then we, but actually you're right, Brian, because then we did come back and beat Wisconsin. We beat Wisconsin. We beat Oregon. And then we just got boat raced by Illinois Purdue, lost at home Northwestern, boat raced by Michigan State at home, never in the game for moment one.

8:38Minnesota doesn't even count. It's a JV game. And then we got boat raced again by Ohio State. I guess my question is, I'm trying to be positive. Why? Because I don't want to be negative. I don't want to be, I don't want to be angry about the program after year one of a new coach. I don't want to be angry. I don't want to be. I am. Right. And that's why I'm like, I don't know why you're pushing against your, your natural state of being, which is the same as pretty much everybody else who's in Indiana basketball fan at this point. Those of us who remain because we're not just angry about this season or this game or this last stretch games, we're it's we're we're pissed off because it's a different coach and it's the same result. Like we saw this in year one of Archie and year one of Woodson and throughout their 10 years, very similar hovering around 500 in the big 10 just below a below just above on the bubble just in this land of mediocrity with the Minnesota's

9:46and Ohio States of the world and nowhere near where we were when Brian Evans was playing for us. Yeah, fair. So I'm going to turn it back to Dutch. I guess my question is, why is this different than Woody's last two years where we went 10 and 10 in the big 10 each of the last two years? Why is it different than three of Archie Miller's years where he was nine and nine eight and 12, nine and 11. It does feel stylistically different Dutch. It does feel I don't know why, but it does feel a little better, but is that just bullshit? Are we kidding ourselves? Well, it is. I mean, it's you can't deny it is like those seasons, you know, where you're on just on the outside of the tournament looking in, you're within a game or two of the bubble or I'm sorry, is the plan. And you know, those are those are really mediocre seasons for Indiana, but now they become the norm. You know, that's that's just the reality.

10:49Dutch, I put this stat out. Warden, I've talked about it a little. In the last 30 seasons of Indiana basketball, 30. So it does stretch back to the end of the very end of your tenure. But the last 30 years, Indiana basketball has won more than 11 games in the big 10. Okay, just more than 11. Four times in 30 years. Four. Wow. And one time in the last 10. That was Woody's second year, 12 and eight with Jalen Hitchfino and Trace Jackson Davis. Four seasons of more than 11 wins in the last 30. However, I keep thinking back to that interview with Kurt Signetti, where they asked him about playing at Penn State, right? And your team's record is, you know, two and a hundred against Penn State. And his immediate reaction

11:49was, my team's never played here, right? This team's never played here. You remember that quote? I mean, that quote, to me, goes up there with, my team is on the floor. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, and I can't, I mean, that's just epic. The fact that he said that, I got the chills. I was watching it. And I saw it live. And I mean, my way, I was just spinning around going that he just say that. That's all he had to say and walked off. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. It was and it's true. What what the program did before does not affect how you play against Penn State. And no matter what word, and I get it from fans perspective, we're upset because of the accumulated failure. But nothing that happened with Woody or Archie or Tom or Mike Davis or Kelvin, none of that affects going into Ohio State in a game that means everything and laying a fucking egg. None of it does. It doesn't matter what happened before. Lamar Wilkerson doesn't know

12:54who can miller cop is. You know, he doesn't know who, uh, I don't know a Devon Dumises. Like, he has no idea. It doesn't matter. None of that shit matters. So why? Why are we back to a 10 to 12 million dollar payroll for a team that goes into Ohio State where everything's on the line and at half time, we're down 50 to 33. We gave up 50 and only scored 33. Why Dutch? Why are we here? Well, I am excited about next season. And excited about personal changes. So I think instead of trying to hash, you know, hash this thing up, we could. I mean, I may be up for it another time, but you caught me off guard with the podcast. And so I'm not ready to, not ready to do that right now. But I think it's fair

13:58to be excited about personal changes because, you know, the way it worked is there and gets the job in the, in the world of the portal, he got it kind of late. I mean, deals have been made, deals have been done. And, you know, he's taken over, he's moving it, you know, there was no time, you know, he had to go get a staff. I mean, it was behind the eight ball with this group. Um, other than, you know, certainly getting his son, he's building it from scratch. And I think a little bit late have a lot of resources. There's some winners, you know, and they're on our, they're on our team. You know, they won, um, in a lot of ways. And so I mean, I don't feel like we could look at what are you talking about? What do you mean they're winner? You mean, guys that just cashed in and got money? Is that what you mean? Well, I mean, the way I look at it is, you know, we had a lot of resources to put towards the portal. I don't think we, um, you know, we got, I'm trying to think the way I want to say this. We didn't win. I mean,

14:59we didn't win. I mean, we paid a lot of money. And I, I would say we've got to have one of most underperforming rosters as it relates to money spent in the portal. Is that fair? As it looks, by all reports, a top two payroll in the big 10, roughly top 15 in the country. So to come in in the bottom half of the big 10, when you're top two in payroll, NIL, and I'm sure the coaching payroll is right there too. And then in a 68 team tournament to be looking well on the outside now, when you have a top 15 payroll is like, maybe you've got a couple of week late start, but I don't really buy the argument that that is enough of an excuse when you have that kind of money, that kind of resources that you, you can't finish in the top half of an 18 team conference. And you can't just be wondering what your seed is on Selection Sunday as opposed to gosh,

16:04I can't believe we didn't get in again. And, and word, he didn't even have to finish in the top half. He could have finished 10th and gone 11 10 and 10. He could have finished. But for a top two payroll, I don't care if you get the job in August, I want, I want to be in the top half. Oh, no, I agree with you, but I'm saying just make the tournament. We all said just make the tournament this year. And he didn't even need to finish in the top half of the big 10 to make the tournament. And look, Dutch, I know every situation is different, but Virginia is one of the top 15 teams in the country. They have a first year head coach and he had to build it basically a brand new team. And he's a top 15 team in the country and going to be a top four seed in the NCAA tournament. Iowa is in the tournament. North Carolina state is probably in the tournament. Texas is in the tournament. First year coaches. There are a handful five six Miami, a Florida first year coach. They're in the tournament. Like there is no, let me be clear.

17:05In no way, I want to be as clear as possible. In no way am I or ward saying, get rid of the guy, any fans who are on Twitter who are saying that it's ridiculous. It's just absolutely ridiculous. But it is equally ridiculous to spin this season as anything other than a failure. Like multiple things can be true. This season can be an abject failure and he still could be a lot better next year and be on the right path starting next year. But this year did not put us on the right path. We don't have a bunch of guys that we can count on for next year. We didn't make the tournament. So there's no like momentum for the program. It's starting from scratch again next year and he's got to go find a new starting lineup. Like do you think Dutch, Sicily or Dorn, would you would you pencil anybody in to start that's on the roster right now that'll be on the roster next year? Josiah Miles, would I mean, would you be comfortable with any one of those guys being a starter next year? No, no, I don't think so. I'm watching other games,

18:09I'm watching Duke right now, Duke and Carolina. And you know, you see guys come off the bench that are, you know, they're fighting for playing time on these top tier teams. And man, they would be starring for us right now. And you just get bits and pieces of them, you know, and you're looking forward to the next season going, hey, I can't wait to see what that kid does over the summer, right? You get to know their names. I don't feel like we have that guy, you know, or guys like that. You know, it'd be nice to have a stable of, you know, three or four of them that are developing that everyone's excited. You know, you see flashes, you know, like Ella Deepone his first year didn't play a lot. But when he got in, you're like, whoa, what was that? You know, that was a tornado. And that guy was athletic and raw. But, you know, and then you then you find out he's, you know, in love with the game addicted to the game. And that's just a ton of fun to watch guys develop like that. And no, to answer your question, I don't see it. I mean, we're losing all those seniors.

19:09And, you know, I don't see a deep bench of guys that, you know, you're watching and getting excited about watching them develop. Well, wait, let me take a step back. First of all, because I have heard as as Dutch, you chimed in with the late start theory. So I want to take that idea to combine with a lot of the programs Eric, you just mentioned. Darren de Vries was hired on March 18th. Now, Miami hired Jay Lucas, like a couple of weeks before March 6th. But then de Vries was hired on March 18th. Automate Virginia March 22nd. We'll wait at NC State March 22nd. I will hire Ben McCullum on March 24th, because we didn't. And Texas hired Sean Miller on March 24th. So of all those teams you rattled off and I might have missed a couple. Only Miami got their guy before we did. So I think that theory is out the window and and and not something to hang our hat on. Now, Dutch to what you were just saying about flashes of like oladepo and who we're

20:13looking at for next season. I saw some athleticism and some exciting things later in the season from Josiah, but obviously he's all over the place and not reliable. And and while I would be excited to see his development just based on his athleticism, I don't have a lot of confidence in it for him to be a starter next year. But to your point, a bigger point, I think, is that we got to watch Vic develop from year to year to year. And what this season was for us was a bunch of strangers, a bunch of strangers who showed up less than a year ago. And now a lot of them are gone. And we're going to have to do it all again next year. So I'm afraid the era of watching these guys develop while upper classmen sort of carried the load. I think we've all sort of accepted that's gone. But we're living it now. We're living it now like, oh, all these guys who did everything for us this year are now gone. And they didn't do anything. And now and now and at least when we we're

21:16seeing football do it, these guys have come in for a year or two over the last two years. But because they're so good and so exogenous and we won a national championship, we're going to love Fernando Mendoza forever. I think we'll all be we were all impressed by Lamar, but because it didn't come with real winning. You know, he's just another guy that came and went for a season and has a couple of records. No argument. I mean, I think that's really well said, well stated. And the evidence you provided was top shelf. I'm just going to leave it at that. You nailed it. So thank you. But I do look, I do want to go back to. It feels different than Archie and Woody. When we had Archie, the offense from year one from moment one looked terrible. We enjoyed that Marquette game. We did when Evan Fitzner went crazy. This is what I'm saying. Marquette, we got to get them off

22:20of the precon schedule forever. It's misleading forever for all time. But the offense was terrible from day one with Archie. It really was. And with Woody, we knew we were playing a style from day one that was left in the 90s, bigs, post up, backup, five dribbles, and just run everything through the post with Darren from the from the jump and granted it was against shitty competition where you're able to do what you want more. And to Brian Dutch's point, you're not scouted as well as you are when you get to the conference portion of your season. You're able to go through the motions and do your stuff. And we looked better. It felt like modern basketball. And even in losses and even in under achieving this year, it still felt better to me overall than watching Woody's teams player Archie's teams play Dutch. Am I wrong about that? Am I just grasping its draws?

23:22Or are we at least seeing a foundation of the system he wants to run that can work with the right personnel? Whereas before, we didn't even have the right system and we did have better personnel. No, I think that's spot on. I mean, we did not like that style. It did not look good. It was not going to win anything. And again, I don't want to give him any credit for TJD being there. I mean, at he not stayed twice, I mean, I just don't know how bad that would have been. But yeah, I mean, I think the style was more exciting. The ball was moving a lot of deep threes. Even early season, I wasn't in love with it. Just because I, you know, I just know that's not going to play. You're not going to win consistently in the big 10 with that style of ball, you know, just chucking deep ones and typically just two different guys. But the ball is not going to move the same in the conference as it did in preseason. Number one, I don't know. It just got

24:28stagnant and just got all like it just didn't I go back. I just don't think it's enough personnel. I've been watching a lot of college hoops this year more than I have in a long time. And I think it's, you know, there's a lot on on this higher with Ryan Carr. He's definitely the guy that can that can do this. The resources are there. I want to get excited. Back to you. I don't, I don't want it to be the case. Yeah, I don't want a new batch of guys. Be nice if you had, you know, a quarter of three or four or five every, you know, every team you, you bring in through or four out of the portal, maybe five, but this whole nine, 10 men roster, we're going to rebuild every year. It's just that's not going to be any fun. I hope that's not, I hope that doesn't continue. I agree. And yeah, well, I did nine is important, right? Real quick, just to follow up on that. It's like you could almost stomach bringing in seven guys from the portal. If three of the guys that you're bringing back

25:31are starters minutes and playing 25 minutes a game and you can rely on them. But we have to go now get like five, six guys who are going to dominate the minutes. So it's like it's just now and we have three people in the recruiting class and hopefully it changes. But yeah, it's just frustrating. Well, and Brian, I want to come back around to your excitement about Ryan and we will momentarily. But first, I was just thinking yesterday, why, why when constructing this roster and we thought maybe there was more of a like, hey, let's get a little more depth. Let's be able to go eight or nine instead of maybe paying all the money to a couple guys up top that we still probably did that to a larger degree with Lamar and Tucker. So anyway, why hold on when constructing the roster? Could you tell I lost it? Yes, but I am. Well, while you think of that, I will say, and this is going to be unpopular, but it is the thing that

26:34has been talked about in behind closed doors and amongst friends. Tucker hurt him. The fact that he brought Tucker over and had to bring Tucker over hurt the overall makeup of the team because you had to dedicate roughly 20, a little less than 20% of our personnel budget went to Tucker. A little bit more than 20% went to Lamar. So you're at 40% for those two players and Tucker has severe limitations at this level. Severe. He can't defend. He can't guard fours or fives. He can't guard threes. And he doesn't get the space that he likes to have to get his shot off at the big 10 once he was scouted. I mean, today he went one for seven from three. I mean, like that, I do think that hurt him. And I think it hurt him to coach his son the first year at Indiana. I wish his son would have come next year or something. Well, I think it hurt him. I think, look,

27:36that was an odd situation. It is what it is. He's coming off an injury. We never saw that kid play more than eight games at the high major level. And whether it's the shoulder injury or just the way he's built, he wasn't built to be a big time performer. He could have been a solid contributor and was often throughout the season. I think more once he found his role. I did rediscover my point was Tucker being an exception and you have a talent like Lamar, you can get get him, but that you consciously went through and brought in a bunch of these one of your rentals that you knew were going to be gone. And then like, why weren't you thinking in the last recruiting cycle, bringing people in for the portal? Why weren't you thinking I need to be really disciplined and make sure at least half of these guys, half of my main rotation, say six, seven dudes, I have to feel really good that three or four are going to be coming back for year two. Otherwise, I'm just going to be right back in this same position. And he is. And I think anybody who has any experience

28:38and this has got to know, like you need to plan ahead, you can't just say, Hey, and I'm going to win 25, 25 games my first season with all these season to dudes. And then the rest will work itself out. But now we have Ryan car coming in. Wait, wait, though, I want to stay on that point work because I think it's a great point. And the really weird thing is the guys that we do have coming back are just some are that have eligibility to come back. Who knows if they'll come back? We don't know. Yeah, but it's just side miles. Nick Dorn, Josh Drake or Jason Drake, Josh Harris. Exactly. And the two foreign guys, one of Bristol who barely played a couple of minutes here in their guard. And then a big man who we never saw the entire year, that's you do have like five, six guys that have eligibility to come back. I'm not counting Sicily in that who did show promise early in the year. It is a freshman has to develop. But you have five, six transfers, mostly transfers that you took that you cannot rely on. You cannot rely on those guys to give you big production.

29:42So it's almost the worst of the, it's a worse situation than you painted because not only did you not get impact players that you can count on for another year, you got a bunch of non impact players that you may be forced to bring back because you can't bring back. You can't go out and get 10 more new guys. Definitely not. Though you might have to. Yeah. Can't you just like, so these, these other guys, I don't even know their names. Can you just tell them it was a one year deal and a hundred percent you later, you can Dutch, but then you're in a situation where it is really hard to do a wholesale change. It is really difficult. I mean, look, Darren didn't do a good job of it in your one, a wholesale change and granted. Sissy, you keep, but you don't want to do 12 new guys, right? You don't want to do it. And what did we hear? What did we hear, Jimmy Jackson say on the broadcast today that everybody knows who ever watches college basketball? It's, it's about

30:45guard play. And in particular, point guard play. And I think he hamstrung himself again with, with Connor. And I know he was beloved by the fans for his grit and ability to get under the skin and, you know, make some smart plays, but very limited, much like Tucker. But that's okay. Those are your blankies. You're going to bring with you to make you feel good and establish your culture and the way you want to play to your other guys. Fine. But then you also bring in Tate and, and, you know, and, and obviously that didn't work out. And he got injured. And then he was very, very much persona non grata for the rest of the season. So now also you have, we have nobody handling the ball next year. Nobody, word, no point guard, no big man, no two guard. Are those important in modern and, and, and no four because Tucker was your four basically. You don't have any of them coming back. You have, you have nothing coming back. You have to replace to your point. You have to replace all of the production that you had this year. At the

31:47production you had this year wasn't good enough. And look at what I'm sorry. This is that you live in Bloomington now. And this is the comparison you're going to draw. But with Signetti, you look what he did in year one, which was remarkable. And he did lose some dudes. But like a lot of those jam, you guys, people he brought, they were around for year two. Aiden Fisher, you know, Elijah Sharat, the, the, the Angelo Ponds, like a lot of those do. We're like, yes, they're not just going to be, you know, took this sort of transition period. In his case, it was a two-year transition that ended in an undefeated match from championship. But I'm like, Tucker wasn't that. Connor and Wright wasn't that. These aren't guys that you can, you can count on, not that we necessarily would. And it might actually end up being to our advantage that they have to go away because they're out of eligibility. And now you're forced after a year and the big 10 to be like, now I know what big 10 competition looks like up close. And now, hopefully, Ryan Carr and my assistant coaches, some of which have experience in the big 10 can help me better assess who's going

32:51to be effective in conference play. Yeah. So, Dutch, talk to us about Ryan Carr. What do you know of Ryan? I know you know him a bit. What do you just know about him as a guy? Well, he's been doing what he was doing for a really long time. We live in each other's backyards not too far from one another. I see him often a couple times a year for coffee or whatever and talk probably four or five more times a year. And that's through a lot of years. So, I mean, the guy knows player evaluation but he's super organized at the core, you know, in talent scouting and looking for talent at the high school level, at the college level, organizing efforts and, you know, building a team around him. I've got a ton of confidence in him. You know, I just know I don't know there everything there's to know about how this portal works when it actually starts. Does it ever close? I'm very skeptical of the whole thing. I think deals are going on right now. I don't know how

33:54programs like Purdue and Matt Painter made a comment the other day that he doesn't need to hire somebody like Ryan Carr. And I didn't hear him say it but I've been told that he said it. I don't know how I think he's at a crossroads myself just with what's going on there. I mean, they're losing everybody and they're they're not looking good, very good right now either. So there's six of there's six and seven in their last 13 games. Just think how hard it would be though. I mean, I would need I would need so much help because I would not be able to recruit people to produce. So like if I was Painter, I would need like a huge staff of people trying to recruit for me. Just imagine how hard it is to get people to come to Lafayette. Oh, I'm okay there. He needs Sydney Swini as his recruiting coordinator. Yes. Like that's what he would need to get people to come to Purdue. I mean, or just whoever you like at Purdue that would consider Purdue, go out and get their first cousin and that one might might help you. That might help you.

34:56But he's going to do it himself. I mean, I think they're at a crossroads. I think he's I don't know who he has coming in, but he's got a good recruiting class on paper. He's got a good recruiting class. But look, the guys that have ignored the portal for the most part have not been successful in football and basketball. Davos Swini made a big deal about I'm not doing portal. His teams have sucked the last couple of years. Shock a smart at Marquette that said, we're we're not doing portal and his team sucks this year. So like it's just the world we're in and you can't ignore that huge influx of old talent. You just can't ignore it. You got to be smart about it and good about it. But to ignore it seems silly and arrogant, truthfully. Yep. Yeah, it was spot on. It's here to stay. And I think if well, we don't know. Donald Trump is apparently releasing an executive order this coming week that he says will fix college athletics.

35:59Now he even said in the statement that they're going to get sued because the president cannot like grant tax cannot grant antitrust exemptions. He can't. It's clearly laid out that the Congress has to do that. So it's going to be a nightmare and create more chaos, but you know he's going to rattle something. He's going to rattle cage and who the hell knows what's going to fall out. What I do know is there will be more chaos. There will be more chaos. Well, he has somebody now that can run the portal and that's going to that's going to be able to rank and file the talent that's available. I'm sure he's going to he's he's got all these relationships with the agents. That's critical. And he knows the game. I mean, I know I know for certain the guy knows the game. That's why I always reach out to him is just to talk about players. I see whether it's NBA or college because he's got everybody in his I mean, he he's he knows all the names and he has forever

37:00that he's a ton of fun to talk to for that reason at least for me. Well, and when you look at who his mentors were from Larry Bird, Derek Carlisle, Kevin Pritchard, these are these are Hall of Famers that have brought home a lot of success to the great state of Indiana. And I love that he is a cream and crimson Hoosier to his very core and that he's been following team and watching the team. And I think when you look at again, a lot of success that's going on in football, it is about organization and it is about recognizing that talent developing that talent. Now what we saw on the court Dutch because Ryan can get it all organized and can help whittle it down. So Darren only has to look at the best of the best that would be good for his system. We assume Ryan's going to be looking at fit as as much as that and and who can we actually get? Who can we afford? Who's worth this? Who's worth worth that? I would say as a positive, if you're trying to get in scorers, guys who can shoot the ball, wouldn't you Brian as somebody who was a scorer who could shoot

38:04the ball. There would be a lot more appeal and pitching Darren's system than it would have been for Archie or Woody. You know, all you'd have to do is really run the tape of Lamar this season or a couple games of Dorn or a few of Tucker. And that's a relatively easy sell to a player who's considering your school despite what your win loss record was this year. Would you agree? I think the shooters would want to come if they watched us, you know, at times if we could pick the highlights, I think you could attract shooters. I think he's shown enough with his offense of how he wants to play. I don't think we always executed that and we got stagnant and you know, had a lot of stretches with no scoring. But I think for the most part, it's more of an up tempo kind of offense, push it ahead, take if there's opportunities, take them as shooters, you know, that's a pretty cool environment. I mean, but again, I think it's a ton of pressure at least

39:05for his career, a ton of pressure on this portal. I mean, I know if we were in this same situation next year, it won't feel like this. I mean, people will be upset. You know, as we look around, we see other teams kind of rebound, you know, hire a new coach, rebound, jump in the game, you know, be in the tournament, maybe advance in the tournament. You know, I can only be so jealous for so long, you know what I mean? Why can't we do it? And if we see, you know, we go for two, say we do this again next year, I mean, people are going to be fed up. Yeah, you have. Yeah, well, and the apathy, it didn't just all go away when Woody got fired. You know, the apathy is still very much at its right there. These and this wasn't the kind of season to bring people back into the fold. We all just woke up from this football dream, realized, oh my God, it's February and we have another, I think mediocre basketball team, but then we be Purdue and then we beat UCLA and double overtime at Polly and we're like, oh, wait, no, this is the best month ever to be a Hoosier

40:09and then that that dream was was really awakened. And we're like, oh, no, no, no, we're going to go back to not caring about Indiana basketball. And though I watched every minute of every game, I still in my heart, like you said, you can only be so jealous for so long. I'm the same way. Instead of being jealous and looking at the top 10 and seeing Calvin Samson and Matt Painter and Dusty May, I'm just like, we want in football. I'm just going to think about that because I know, I don't think I'm going to allow a basketball to really hurt me again until we're good. Well, that makes one of us because I am hurt and angry and pissed off. And I've tried to be good this season, but I'm just, you know, good, not even good teams, but what you hope about your team is that you're better in March than you were in November. We are six and 10 in our last 16 games. We lost six of our last nine. Yes. I mean, and that includes losing at home. We lost four home

41:17games this year and two of those were to Iowa and Northwestern. We lost on the road to Minnesota and USC. We got blown out this year by Ohio State, Michigan State, Purdue, Illinois. We got blown out by Michigan and Iowa and Michigan State twice, I should say. We got blown out by Kentucky, who ended up beating us by 12. We got blown out by Louisville. Like we talked about we're tired to get blown out because Woody would get us blown out. We got blown out just as much this year. We did. He's like stylistically, there's something to be excited about. Performance, there's nothing. There was nothing this year that makes me feel good about this season. And the, if you're spending 10 million plus on a roster, you got to make a tournament that includes 68 teams. I mean, you just got to make the tournament. And we couldn't, we're not going to make the tournament. Well, it's just we're not going to make it. And all right, Dutch, we don't want to keep you all night. It's late for you. Any last words from you and then Ward and I will commiserate some more.

42:20We're not going to make it. You're just, you know, you said it three times. I think you hammered at home. And I think I should just close with we're not going to make it depressing to hear that. Dutch, we love you. All right, boys. That was a guest. That was a guest. I just go back to the fact that you look at this team. We lost five of our last six, six of our last nine, six of our 10 of our last 16. This team got worse as the season went on. It got worse because we got into the big 10. Yeah, I think that no doubt. Everything was pretty hunky during until we played real themes. Well, so we can talk about two things. We can talk about schedule, but we can also talk about Ward 20 point loss to Illinois, 29 point loss to Purdue, four point loss at home to Northwestern who is awful. You said early on, it might have been before the season or near

43:21the beginning of the season, you're like, there's no reason we shouldn't at least be competitive in every game. And of course, you know, and maybe and that look, that's a little bit for hardy, right? But, but, but, you know, you go to Michigan and you get wax. You go to Illinois, you get wax, understandable. What happened to most teams in the country? But guess what? Like game after game after game against top opponents, we got embarrassed for stretches of the game, often in the second half, we were like, we're not, we're not in the same league as these teams. And it wasn't always necessarily Illinois or Michigan. Michigan state, okay, pretty good team, Purdue, okay, pretty good team. Should we just be, you know, they made us look like we made Penn State look like there's that big a gap between us and them as there is between us and Penn state. Yeah, I think it's eight games we lost by double digits, but Louisville ended up being a nine point loss. We got blown out in that game. It's just, it was an, it's been an ugly season.

44:24It's been an ugly season. And nine and 11 in the big 10 is as bad as Archie, well, I mean, a couple years worse than that. But Woody, his first year went nine and 11 in the big 10, and he made the tournament. He did enough to win to make the tournament. I just think the big 10 has good coaches. They have good programs. Indiana always has at the most or almost the most money and resources and connections and history and everything else. So we're, we're, we don't finish at the very bottom because there's just too much of an infrastructure around the program to let you, you can't too big to fail, right? Too big to fail. But with too big to fail big. Yeah, too, too big to fail big is the story of Indiana basketball for the last decade. And, you know, same, same result, different coach. And, and I want to go back to this is a more pleasing style to look at. It just needs better talent.

45:29Okay, how do you get better talent? You're bringing somebody like Ryan Carr. There should be enough money there. And if you have this guy helping you both assess the talent and spend the money, that is a real move by Scott Dolson and and coach Devries to address this issue. But that's like it is so often the case for Hoosier fans. That is the hope for the future. The present is another disappointing season where you declared over and over and I agreed with you. You have to make the tournament or the seasons a disappointment. We're not going to make the tournament and the season is a disappointment. Mike Davis six years at IU had one season where he was seven and nine. The rest 10 and six 11 and five eight and eight 10 and six nine and seven. The year he got fired. He was nine and seven and finished fourth in the big 10 and went to the NCAA tournament and won a game. And and it was a five alarm fire to get rid of him, which which we agreed with.

46:36It wasn't good enough. It was and the future wasn't good enough. What were we are? I'm just just curious just to see how far the mighty has fallen. What was the what was like the post-chainier post-private years under coach night? What did those big 10 teams look like because we were there and we were starting to freak out. You know, and this is yeah. Nine and nine was the worst year. We tied for six in the big 10 and we went to the NCAA tournament. Then nine and seven tied for fifth in the big 10. Nine and seven tied for third in the big 10. Ten and six tied for fifth in the big 10. One at one two NCAA tournament games during that time and then lost in the first round his last year. So and I mean, look, you're hovering around, you know, two to four wins over 500. That's not so far above and beyond what we've been living with ever since. No, but look, but it's all the difference in the world, award. It's all the difference in the world. You can't go nine and 11 in the big 10. You can't go nine and 11. We're paid. We got $10 million or more for players.

47:39You can't be spending a million bucks a win in conference. Yeah. No, I agree or or it's slightly slightly, wait, how much slightly less expensive if you go by losses. We're paying less per loss than we are per win. That's what happens when you go nine and 11. Yeah, man. It's it's just super frustrating, super frustrating. And you know what's really sad. Wisconsin and UCLA could have easily been losses. Wisconsin gave us the game with the turnovers they had at the end when they could have they could have like milked the time away and they fucked up and gave us that game. But when you look at our losses, there are no outside of Northwestern, which was a home game that we blew. Everybody beat us by more than two points. Like they, you know, like we were up a few of those games. I think I'm forgetting. Yeah, no, but we ended up losing, but we ended up losing to Iowa and Nebraska. We were up by 16, but we ended up losing by like seven. We lost by seven in

48:41that game. Like it didn't come, I guess what I'm saying is the losses didn't come down to one possession except for Northwestern. So it, well, it is interesting that there weren't a lot of close games. We were either clearly better or clearly worse and holding some sort of middle ground that just is Indiana basketball, just a mid program with mid results for, you know, yes, a decade straight, but for the most part for over 30 years. Ward, we went on the road to Ohio State in a game that meant everything, everything for the season. And if I told you before the game, we're going to shoot 55% from the field. We're going to have more assists than the other team. We're going to have only 12 turnovers compared to the other teams 11. We're going to shoot 17 of 21 from the free throw line. It's good. And we got we weren't even in the game. Yeah. We were down by we were down by three points with seven and a half minutes left in the first half. Three points. And by half time,

49:45seven minutes later, we were down by 17. I blame myself because what we were at we were down like 28 to 20 and maybe a little bit before that, but that's when I took notice. No, we were 25 to 23 at one point. No, no, no. At one point, it was it was 28 to 20. And then we got it to 25 to 28. 25 to 28. You're right. With seven minutes left. Yep. And and we've been down double digits, but it was it was like, that's when I started noticing like, hey, we're on a bit of a run. Oh, we've got it all the way. Now we've closed loosen three. I was like, I thought this was over. Good on us. And then boom, they exploded honest and the half thorton gets the record breaker. And I knew at that point, it was over. And it was about that time I picked up my phone. I got onto a website and I ordered the t-shirt that Instagram has been feeding me, which is Indiana football school. Yeah. I know. I know a lot of people are going there. Yeah. I just it was it was my well, I guess it's not a silent protest anymore because I'm talking about it here. But but that's that's

50:47how we're coping. And I think not that's legitimate. Like it is really easy to feel better about being a Hoosier just turning your attention to a piece of clothing or all the beautiful memories we have of being undefeated Big 10 national champions. And and I will keep saying that out loud on a basically on a daily basis. But it also gives you more of a sober clear look at how bad basketball has been since the mid 90s. Like all of a sudden any sort of spin you like to be like, well, we were the best team in the country in 2012, 2013. And and Yogi senior, that was really fun. And and hey, Trace, like all that just sort of gets put into its proper perspective of a few freak good seasons or good players. And what's otherwise been 30 years of being I want to say shitty because compared to what we were the previous 30 years, but it's not shitty. It's mediocre. It's mediocre. Yeah, it's one elite eight appearance in 33 years. That's what it is. One elite eight.

51:55And how many sweet 16s? One, two, three, four sweet 16s in 30 plus years. Like it's just, I'll tell you I want to I have to talk about this because it does piss me off. We did a lot of gaming. The metrics this year. A lot. We did it with the schedule at the beginning of the year where we ran teams off the floor and we kept our starters in longer than you would normally keep starters in when you're up by 20 or 25 points. But it helped our metrics both offensively and defensively, which kept us afloat a lot through this year on the net rankings, which take into account metrics. We also did a lot of in blowouts like Louisville and Michigan. Keeping our starters in at the end of the games to tighten a 20 point lead to 12 or 10. Watching tonight's game and seeing Tucker with like seven seconds left sprint the length of the court so he could put in a layup. So we lost by 13 instead of 15. It just pissed me off.

52:57Like why? Why are you doing that? It's just stat. It's just stat hunting and we did a lot of that throughout the year. And that's what shit programs do. That's what non top programs do. I want to see us play real teams in the non-conference. What? That's what dignity does. But no, no way. I disagree. How many fourth quarters can Fernando sit out? Yeah, well, but they're still putting points on the board. But you're right. He was with your backups with some of their backups, with some of their backups, particularly Albert with your Heisman on the bench. The guy played the fourth. He didn't play a fourth quarter like multiple times. It's just dignity talks about needing to do that. And and I think probably he knew it was becoming less important. He do that because of how good this team was. But that's when he's certainly like just boat racing, you know, the. Okay. There are fewer games. You've got it. You've got fewer chances

54:02to show off. But I look, I guess the greater point is great. Do that. Sure yourself up. Do your metrics or play to the last snap the same way it's the first snap and here to all that. If you win, it's like, yeah, that's amazing. You're being dominant and then it's wonderful. And if you're being shitty and losing and you're just trying to get these table scraps so you can maybe eat your way in to the tournament at the end of the season, you know, that's looking at it's putting lipstick on a pig. It's lipstick on a pig. And I got to say the basketball schedules are very fungible, not like football. Football is very difficult to plan ahead. I don't really understand maybe just because there's fewer of them. I don't know. It's. There's such bigger events. They literally have like, yeah, but there's a lot fewer football teams too. Like so I don't, I don't ask about teams. They better have a schedule next year that's got a handful of real games

55:03in the non-conference. And don't book a Kansas State for your one lone home game. Yeah. Don't do that. I mean, how many, how many do you think is the right amount? Because we do a Kentucky Louisville, Marquette and Kansas State. They're declining, but we thought they were going to say it was not real. That was a buy game. We bought them, Ward. Okay. All right. So our lead head, I'll give you Marquette. That's that's three. How many do you need? You need five as minimum five as minimum. Okay. Look, look at Yukon. Look at Duke. Look at Michigan State. Look at Kentucky. Look at Louisville. They were playing seven. Some of them ate real games. Okay. So we need five. We need five real ones to be minimum every year. And I do think those will help you. I think find play neutral side games that helps you. At least you're not in a home environment. You know, but playing Lyndon Wood and Kansas State does not help the team get better. That's it. And that's the point rather than gaming the metrics and trying to like build your teams confidence. It's like no,

56:08go against at least five other legitimate top 25 programs, which which now I think, you know, I mean, the fantasy of being like the best basketball program in the country or even top 10 seems so far detached from reality. If it hadn't just happened with football, I would say that dream is dead. But we can be back there at some point someday, but it does feel like let's let's walk before we run. And in this case, if you want to get into that, that always ranked always making the tournament routine that we use to take for granted is get yourself ready in the preseason. Be like, this is what it's going to take. And either you have the the personnel, and you have the the scheme. And more importantly, like the heart and the grit to dig deeper, be like, we got to work harder, we got to find some stuff. We got to grow individually and as a team, because we just got waxed by four of those five teams. But we learned in everyone,

57:09we're going to take that into the big 10. We're going to win a few more games in the big 10 because of what we learned going against the top teams in the country. And then we're not going to be quite so dependent on on wins against bubble or bark, or what ever else the committee looks at on selection Sunday. I was like, no, we just won 12 or 13 or 14 games in the big 10. So we're definitely getting into the tournament. And I would say like, we can't think that year two should be let's consider it year one. No, making the tournament, just making it isn't good enough next year. It's not what you just said. No doubt you're in the tournament and a team capable of making it to the second weekend. Now I get it. Things happen in the NCAA tournament. You know, I mean, somebody goes off a matchup is weird. You get an injury. Somebody on the other team goes crazy for a game. But so you can't guarantee a sweet 16, right? Like that can't happen. So what you

58:10better have a team that when you look at you go, this is a team worthy of being in the second weekend. That needs to be the bar next year. So you're probably looking at that. If you're not a seven seed, maybe an eight seed, but like, you know, because top seven seed next year, top seven, which I don't want to I don't want to be in a situation where we're playing the number one seed in the second weekend or the second game. I mean, oh, yeah, yeah, fine. But but but to be to top seven, which means you're top 28 in the country. That's what I'm saying. That's top 28 in the country. And it's again, I don't think anybody would say with the resources. Let's just say it with a huge, huge, huge amount of cash that there's any reason in year two, you shouldn't be a top 30 team in the country. No doubt. Like no doubt. That's what needs to happen. That's what needs to happen next year. This season was a disappointment. Yes, a failure. Yes. It was a failure. And we'll see how big of a failure. It is because

59:13as of right now, we cannot look at the roster and say there is anybody that we can rely on to be impact next year. Dorn had like a handful of games where he looked great. That was so weird. I don't I I cannot remember. I don't know a comp to what Nick Dorn did this season, which was, you know, non-existent shows up works his way into the rotation. And a few games in goes crazy. And looks like he might be the best player on the team for two or three games. And then vanishes like a ghost. And Rabi had said something. I'm going to paraphrase slightly, but he's never seen somebody who has so much, um, basically confidence when there's no real reason to. And there's there's a term for it, you know, that it was basically because Nick had not done it on the court against big time opponents. It was like, where, where does this confidence come from?

1:00:16Like the term is arrogance, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, like unfounded, you know, or no, I mean, and this is when he's scoring 20 plus points of game and pouring in three pointers from everywhere. And you're like, oh, well, he, he just knew all along that he had this confidence even though it was never shown to anybody at least outside of a practice, right? Nobody in the general public ever saw Nick Dorn coming the way he did. And then he did it. And you're like, oh, okay, well, this guy knew and apparently Darren de Vries knew. And now we're all finding out and then he's gone. And that's that's so bizarre. That's such a bizarre thing because immediately when that's that starts happening, not only are we beating Purdue and UCLA, but we're also looking like, well, there's there's our leading score next year or at least at least one of your three guys you can rely on every every game. Like he's your third score, one of the top three scores. Because I don't know if I ever say like he's the Lamar for next year, you still got to go find

1:01:22the guy in the portal or two that's going to be that who's hopefully a junior. Yeah, exactly. But you know, it's like I just look at these three point percentages. Connor N. Wright finishes the regular season at 33.8%. Tucker de Vries finishes the year at 34.2%. Nick Dorn at 37%. Lamar Wilkerson who had a sensational year as we talked about finished at 30, 38.4%. Like we just Tate and Connerway finishes the season at 27.9%. Like we made a volume of threes. We enshoot them at a crazy high rate. Not enough to make up for the lack of rebounding, the lack of defense, the lack of athleticism. Like that was good. That was supposed to be the trade off. And that's what we were all hoping that these guys are going to shoot the lights out. Not only at home, but on the road enough to make up for what were these glaring, glaring shortcomings

1:02:27for a big 10 roster. And unfortunately that that hope, you know, here it is against top 100 teams in Bartorvik. We finished the regular season six and 13 against those teams. And our three point percentage as a team was 32.5%, which means it is an inefficient shot for your team. That ranked 175th in the country. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. That's that is good enough. And that's what's so disconcerting because they made the decision at some point. We we missed out on the big guys. We didn't like the big guys that were in the portal. They didn't fit what we wanted. So we're putting all of our eggs in the shooters basket, right? That's what the team was built as. That's what Darren talked about. That's what that's what the offense is built around over 50% of our shots are three point rate against top 100 teams was 50.8% more than 50%. Well, if you're taking more

1:03:30than 50% of your shots from three and you're not even average at it as a team, you have misevaluated, not developed. Don't have the right team. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And just a really another in a long line of failure, disappointing seasons. And I just never thought this year. I really did not think even five, six games ago. I did not think this season would end in the same way that Woody's last two years ended. And it did. Yeah. Like I want to I I'm not recalling the the that stretch of games, but it was it was the stretch of games where we lost like three or four out of like five before we got going against Rutgers, Purdue and UCLA. But we we had a losing streak there, right? I don't know if you have in front of you. I do. I do. I'll tell you. So it was. Yeah,

1:04:30it was lost to Michigan. Then we beat Rutgers on the road. We came home and beat Purdue. It was we beat UCLA. It was it was losing to Nebraska at Michigan State, Iowa at Michigan. And I was like, oh, yeah, we're missing the tournament. I just knew it. Like you like, but then we win five of six. Right. And but but you and but it was like Rutgers to your point. That's like a JV team. That Purdue. Great. Okay. But it's at home against our rival. And Woody was like at least 500 against Purdue. Okay. At UCLA. That was a favorable matchup. You know, but but of course, of course, getting to watch the double overtime victory against a good a solid UCLA team granite. They're missing pit players, whatever. I can conveniently ignore all of that and be like, well, I was wrong. But ultimately in that four game stretch in the middle of January, when we clearly could have beaten Nebraska at home, we were up by 16, you know, but then just getting humiliated at Michigan state and at Michigan. And then obviously the Iowa game, that was that was a blowout. And

1:05:36that was against the coach. We didn't hire. And that was like, oh, no, at home at home. Yes, at home. Yes, at home. So so I don't know why I went off on this tangent. I guess it's because I did feel you were like, I could never have imagined this year. I was going to end up like this. And I didn't mostly because I was so distracted with football. When those four games happened in my heart of hearts, I knew this season was going to be disappointing. And then in this stretch, though, let's say from from from the end of football to the end of basketball, I did start to think. And I think a lot of that has predicated on how much outside shooting we were doing and how deadly Lamar was. And when Nick got hot, we started showing that we could we could do some stuff down low through Sam an occasional game and occasional play read would do some stuff. And he was terrible, terrible, terrible at finishing at the rim. The worst person over five foot 10 to finish at the rim. I think I've ever seen play college basketball. But there were

1:06:42moments where it was like, Oh, because teams are spread out and they are closing out, Lamar can get by him or or if maybe Taten hadn't fallen off the cliff, he could get by him. I started seeing things in the system that I think could work with better players. But it became very clear as the season went on against some of these better teams. And even against some just net teams, we were never going to string enough possessions together in a row on the offensive end to keep up with the disaster that became the defensive side of the ball. I couldn't agree more. I was I was just looking at when we what was the date of the championship game like the 19th something like that right. Yeah. So after that, we had a game like the next day against Michigan where we got blown out at Michigan. But then immediately went on the road beat Rutgers came home beat Purdue came

1:07:43went on the road beat UCLA. And it was like all of the focus that was on football goes to basketball and we rip off three wins. It felt good. Yeah. And then the wheels came off. I mean, although it's yeah, man. But we saw we saw it there at the USC game. It's like this is not a team that is locked in. This is this is or capable of being locked in. Yeah, I guess I get yeah, because if you're not going to be locked in at that point in your season when your season's very much on the line, like, oh, you've just like you're you're it was looking bad or you just won two big games and that you can't you can't just come out and kick USC's ass. After you've had two days of relaxing in LA eating steak and getting massages. And you're just kind of like, I mean, we were we were 10 feet away from the court. Like this was like, this was not a team that was serious about winning that game really at any point. Yeah. I mean, look, you and I have had this kind of back and forth

1:08:45the whole time about the mental toughness, which I have come around to to understand your argument on that. I don't think it's about effort. I think it's about that's meant for the point. Yes. This team played hard virtually all year. They really did. They just weren't good. They weren't good from a construction standpoint. And look, we talked about it ward in the off season. I was worried about the amount of talent on the team. We talked about it. Yeah, I was worried before the season started. Did we have enough talent? Well, guess what? We didn't what but let me let me just finish this point and then go for it. What I was banking on ward was that everything we heard was whatever you think the talent is, Darren is a good enough coach that you will be a few notches above that. Right. We heard that. Yes. That was the hope. And we weren't. We were exactly or a little under what the talent was because this talent was good enough to win at Minnesota,

1:09:47win at home against Northwestern and win at USC on the road. It was good enough for those three things. And if you win two of those three, you're in the tournament. We're not even thinking about it. And so we didn't perform above our talent and we may have performed just under it. And that is upsetting about this team again, not saying anything about Darren going forward. He could turn it around all next year, but just looking at this body of work this year was a failure. I think that's a great point because what what is maybe the ultimate sign of a good coach is the some greater is the some greater than the parts. Yep. And we know there's so much more into being a great head coach in college these days than just that. But if you're talking about Purex's and O's, you know, nobody was greater than the general Robert Montgomery Knight at taking the talent he had and elevating it to a place so much above and beyond what anybody else

1:10:48could possibly do. You are more insightful than most following this program when it comes to, well, let's let's say most things. I'll just lavish you with praise, but you were a part of a very loud chorus that was concerned about the talent on this team going into the season. There was a lot of people who felt that way. I guess I did because I was just going along with the herd. I wasn't watching tape on any of these guys. I was I was hoping it would be a significant situation where here are these kind of overlooked guys from smaller schools who are very productive, but this coach will just really maximize what they do individually and as a group. But a lot of people are like, yeah, I don't know about this. And you guys were all right. You were all right. I said it from the beginning. Grabby was like just looking at the team on paper. This is a bubble team. Yeah, yeah, Trevor said it too. And and those guys, I guess what really bugs me if I'm going to get into the weeds schematically and I'm not going to go that deep in it because I do

1:11:50think stylistically that we're really good things. We space the floor well. We move it well when we're when we're doing what Darren wants us to do. Yeah, it looks pretty. It looks pretty and it's fun and it's effective. Yeah, but the team was better when Tate and Connerway was playing more. They were better. Now granted it was the first part of the year. I get it. But Tate and brought I think the team ceiling up and him getting benched and look, we've heard stuff behind the scenes that Tate didn't give his all in practice. And you know, you'd see it on the floor sometimes. He has a bit of a lack of daisicle attitude and doesn't look like mentally. He's locked in, which may be some of what you've talked about and that and the coaches know more about that than we do. But the team performed better when Tate and played more and Conner N. Wright, who gives his all and plays his ass off is limited. He's totally limited. And when he played against bigger, faster, stronger guards, he got abused. He got abused and he can't shoot consistently. So the

1:12:50other team scouting report from what a third of the season in was do not guard him. Don't guard him. You almost didn't even need to guard him when he drove to the bucket because too often he would just drive to the bucket and then kick it. You know, he had a good game today. But today was an academic. I mean, like the game was over with five minutes left in the first half. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What else you got? Man, spring practice. I mean, we're football school, baby. I mean, this is it. Like I think the most merciful thing about this season was that it was so short in the time that we had. Right. When we weren't just totally infatuated watching college or college football because, you know, those weeks in between the games, because we won every football game we played this. So from week to week, the dream just kept getting more beautiful and more surreal and more magical and more destined. So yeah, you'd watch the basketball game on

1:13:52Tuesday night, but it could not get you down. And you know, I'm going to have a good night tonight, knowing that I got an Indiana football shirt on the way. And that as we turn to the off season now of both, I will be thinking a lot more about football in the immediate and long term. Because yes, there is spring practice coming, but we got the NFL draft coming. Let's talk about that for a second. That's a great point. I look, you're a huge Colts fan. It is near and dear to your heart. You mean Raiders, you mean Raiders fan? Yeah. I have adopted the Colts largely because of you. I will root for the Raiders because of Fernando, but I've never been more excited about watching the NFL draft. Yeah. You know, I typically will tune in a little bit, but I don't care all that much even though it's become a major event. It's become a pop culture event, truthfully. It's a huge television event. And I just love it's so great for the city of Indie. And I know that you always talk about maybe going somewhere else, but I hope that never happens because it's such a.

1:14:53You're talking about the combine. Oh, yes. Sorry. Yeah. I was talking about the draft. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I jump back to the combine, but I know we're headed towards. No. Look, there's talk about trying to do the draft in Indianapolis that they're on the list of cities. Because it's Pittsburgh this year, but have they never had the draft there? No. Because for a long time, it was just in New York every year. Right. And I think they did Chicago. But I'll gladly never have the draft in Indie if it means the combine gets to stay. Because honestly, I think the combine, you can't just sit there and watch it all day. It's fairly tedious. But I feel like the draft is pretty rough too. And I end up watching a lot more overall of the combine than I do the draft. Yeah. Look, the draft is more of an entertainment event. And the combine is more of a sporting event. They need you to produce the draft because it is it is pretty rough watching most of the draft after the combine, the draft. Oh, interesting. Look, I'm really excited. Not just for Fernando, but like like with the Heisman, like, there's less stress about the draft because he's going to

1:15:55be the number one pick. Totally. But I am stressed and excited about where Omar Cooper is going to get drafted. Well, then I want to hear Elijah Sarat's name. And I want to hear some of our other players. D'Angelo Ponds. We're going to hear his name. Yeah. And there's some talk about like six to eight guys of Indiana, maybe being drafted. So this is what I heard today at the barbershop, where you know, all the good information is the shop. Yep. The shop, um, haven't been to a barbershop in about 20 years. My guy, Rocky was like, he's hearing that the Raiders, because they just traded, they got rid of Max Crosby. I'm like, well, who you think, what are they going to look to do now that they have another first round draft pick? Because we all know who number one's going to be, who they're going to get in that first round to go with Fernando. And he's talking about a wide receiver. And you know, what it's number the 14th. And I haven't looked at the big board that was high. But, but what when you look at not, I hope they draft a fucking lineman. Well, yes, me too. I think they should only get linemen and undrafted free agents get them 12

1:17:00linemen and let them offensive linemen mind you. The defense can wait till next year. I don't protect Fernando at all costs. But if they are going to get a wide receiver and you're there at 14. And some people have Cooper mocked in the top 20. Even if you have a receiver or two, maybe available that is slightly ahead of Cooper. Like, do you want to make your quarterback feel good? Do you want your quarterback to have instant chemistry with your new wide receiver? Because you know, it's going to be fine with Bowers, you know, John T, you know, you know, in the backfield is going to be able to do what he needs to do. So it's not off the table that Cooper could go off the board as their second pick in the first round. I'm not saying I would bet on it, but it could happen. That's interesting. I also read that they met with the Angela Ponds. Oh, I did not read that. Yeah, I read that. So I don't know where their second third round picks are. But if they've got a second round pick and Ponds is on the board, like, the Raiders could become

1:18:02the Hoosiers. I mean, they really could. Here's another one for you, hitting closer to home. So the Colts traded aways at your Franklin today. He's there. Their middle line back, right? He's the guy with the green dot on the helmet. And it was for, you know, a rotation. Well, he was a starter in Minnesota, but a defensive tackle, right? Basically, somebody maybe to spell Buckner, maybe Buckner doesn't come all the way back from the next surgery. Who knows? In fact, is we need a middle linebacker who can run the defense. And where is he? I haven't heard much about Aiden. Where is he? Hearing two Colts talking heads today, they mentioned two middle linebackers ahead of him. And they didn't actually even mention eight. So I think that gives you some idea where he was invited to the combine and some people talking around the combine coverage was like, I don't think anybody's terribly impressed with him physically, but he's so brilliant mentally that it's like, it's going to be really hard to keep him out out of a team, like a little bit like my comic fat.

1:19:05Yeah, like some some teams going to invite him in. And I hope it's the Colts. I hope it's in the draft, if not as an undrafted free agent. And he's going to get some reps at that middle line backer position, diagnosing what the offense is doing. And they're going to realize, well, who cares if he's not the fastest or he's not the strongest, he is a brilliant quarterback for our defense. And in a day and age where the linebacker position is generally undervalued in the NFL, like literally, they're just not paying that much for linebackers. And one position group that ballards pretty good at at both identifying and drafting or bringing in is linebackers. I would love to see fish show up in that spot next year. You know, maybe we get somebody from the NFL to talk to us, somebody that follows the draft a little to because, you know, Roman, Henby's name has been mentioned as a potential late round draft pick. But no, and Kaelan Black wasn't even invited to the the combine. It's crazy, right? Kaelan Black was every bit as good as Roman, Henby, if not maybe a

1:20:09little better. I mean, I just felt at least 60% of the time, if not higher in the back third of the season, all the way through the championship. Kaelan was just always a little bit better in any given game or the biggest plays or the biggest moments more times often than not. It was Kaelan. Yeah. So I wonder what is it in the NFL that they see with Roman that they don't see with Kaelan? I would love to, I'd love to dig in. Let's look. I'm going to look for an NFL guy that a draft guy that can kind of come on and talk to us about Aiden's size. It does seem like linebacker is that position where there are so many athletic freaks like guys that run a crazy 40 and are bigger and stronger that they tend to go with those guys in the linebacker position. You know, Mike McFadden's made a career in the NFL, but he's not a star in the NFL. So I would just be curious to get into that. But to your back to the bigger point, the draft is going to be super fun, super fun as a Hoosier fan. Well, and I just because so many people have made so much about

1:21:14D'Angelo's size. And yes, if he was six feet tall or even five, 10, he would be probably the first guy off the board from from the quarterback spot. But because he's such a freak and what was that a 43 and a half inch vertical? Like one of the highest verticals in the history of the combine certainly at his position where it's just like, yeah, he's fine guys. That's how he's going to guard a six three wide receiver is because he's got six inches on him and vertical jump. So it'll I have no idea where that's going to be. It would be awesome if it's Las Vegas too. Let's make it the Las Vegas Hoosiers will road trip over there two or three times a season. Also, the fun thing about that being in the Chargers division, they're going to be coming here every year too. So we'll be able to see people get a Rams game if they on the schedule, you know, they play them once every few years. I don't know how that works. And then I will say, I'm going to be super excited and interested and focused on the portal when it opens the day after the NCAA tournament because it's everything. I mean, it is going to be everything for this

1:22:17program. What we do next year. You know, there was a lot of argument before this year started about how important is year one. Rabby and I went back and forth. I sent year one is important. Rabby didn't think it was all that important. Okay. Your ones behind us. I don't think you can make the same argument with year two. Yeah. Your two is super important. Uh, I hope Rabby was right. Well, time will tell. Uh, but you know, and all these, I think, as stated earlier, not strong arguments that Darren got in late and you can lay the blame at that. Okay. Well, I think those are our negligible anyway. But now they're gone. Now that's, that's completely off the table as any kind of pre-excuse. And to Dutch's point, negotiations undoubtedly are going on now. Like our guys, our staff, if they're like every other staff in the NCAA, they have been talking behind the scenes, figuring out since December, who's thinking about leaving, who's thinking about

1:23:24and to your point, the moment, the NCAA tournament is over. It's a shotgun start. And I think we'll find out very quickly in a number of a few days, how effective this staff has been over the last few months at positioning themselves. And also with Ryan Carr, part of his whole introductory thing is like, well, I need to, if this is going to happen, it needs to happen now. So I have enough time. Well, I mean, how much time we have till the, what, what month, a month, a month, a month. So a lot can happen in a month behind the scenes when you have good people and plenty of money. Well said. As always, follow us on Twitter at Hoosier hysterics for the Sterex. No, E, no, I, sometimes, why? Here's two happier podcasts in the very near future. Hold on. I got one more thing. Are you ready for this? Yeah. Annie was coming back from the mall today. She's like, I'm stopping by the Lego store. Does anybody want anything? I said, yes. I want a undefeated Big 10,

1:24:28a national championship in the Annie University Hoosier football set. And she said they don't have any. And I said, are they sold out? And she said, no, they don't have any. And I just want to just point it out the disrespect that continues for our football program even after the season we had is unconscionable. Lego has always hated us. Go by means of one dynamic. And as you probably know by now, Hoosier hysterics, Hoosier hysterics, Hoosier hysterics! Running a business means checking a lot of boxes. Let's see payroll, check, inventory, check, insurance. Ah. Good thing Simply Business makes getting small business

1:25:31insurance fast and easy. Check insurance off your list at simplybusiness.com.