Blindboy, Part 1: Unmasking the Evil Elite Cabal

Hello and welcome to the Coating New Gurus podcast where anthropologists and psychologists

in the greatest minds the world has to offer and we try to understand what they're talking about.

I'm the psychologist Matt Brown and with me as always is the co-government anthropologist Chris

Kavanaugh and I join you Chris back in God's Own Country, Queensland after being down at the

hellhole that is Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. You went to the big smoke it was like crocodile

on the internal version. Yes, internal version. That's right but it could well be the same.

Everyone down there it's raining, there's multi-story high rises, everyone's wearing leather or

black or gray. Were you confused by moving escalators and ripped out that's not a knife,

this isn't a knife. Not quite that far. You said evil, don't know how to wrestle now like you

watch this. That's my Australian accent. I know you've offered it by the bronze,

even orange coloring that I have. I stood out in the same way in Melbourne, they're like rates

hardly kissed by the sun. Probably that's all relative because I feel what you regard as a

reef in Australia would be a swarvy town. Let me put it this way, I think they're about as

understanding as you can get while still being technically Australian. Oh that's good.

I like that you're annoying no Australians after upsetting the Northern Irish in Scotty. That's

right. People last time. Nobody's safe. That's safe. You'll all come to hate me. That's right.

I'm speaking off. You'll come to hate me. No, that's not fair. That's not fair. We're looking

today at a beloved figure among some quarters. Actually, somebody that I enjoyed quite a lot

back in the day when they were primarily part of a satirical Irish comedy hip-hop band.

We're looking at Blind Boy Book Club. So originally was one half of the band, The Rubber Bandits,

which is where I came across him with a famous song. I've got a horse outside, right? That's

if it's so famous, why haven't I heard of it? You will have heard it. The other thing that they're

known for that band. I don't think they still perform. I think they've kind of went their separate

ways, but they were plastic bags on their heads, like shopping bags with high holes and my

holes. So this was a signature look of them. Sorry, it was horse outside. That was the title of

their song. You probably didn't get it because of that. You would know it as horse outside.

Look at my brother, he's mad and she's looking back at me. I went to the store since a last

girl. She was a lift up back to the hotel and if it goes well, finger on a shift, she says

15. She's a minty and he out on me to swim. Ain't that behind us? So I might just go with him

and don't give me city to bring me in and so I roll. So I don't fuck with me. You'll think I'd

want to go with you. So you're right. That's it. Good. The heart's on time. Fuck your

silver row. I have a heart's on time. And fuck your mental bitch. Hey, the heart's on time.

If you're looking far away, the heart's on time. Oh, yeah. And also, Matt, he is a fellow Irishman,

right? He's from the south, you know, the real Ireland, as you would predict. Yes.

From Lenrich and, you know, I'm a, I'm a pretender. As you like to say, my, I'm just a

northern man, you know, so I probably don't, I don't read, you know, the CM level of Irishness,

but I'm just saying that, you know, we're from a related background, shall we say? Yeah.

You're from the same led mess. We can agree on that. The same one. That's right. We're all from

the Emerald Island. Okay. Yeah. So like I said, kind of a satirical comedy stuff. Some of it

is specific to Ireland. It's like Irish humor, you know, making fun of different counties and

this kind of thing. But, but some of it was just also broader stuff. And this is one half, right?

So this guy goes by blind boy book club after the band. He started a podcast. The blind boy

podcast, which is apparently very popular. Lots of people listen to it in Ireland and the rest of

the world. And you, you might see him pop up on like Novara media, left wing media. He

mainly features in or some talk shows. But yeah, but we are looking at his podcast, the blind boy

podcast, which in the blurb, often discussing mental health, masculinity, sociopolitical issues,

so on, right? Yeah. And he's very well regarded, isn't he? I don't think there's been

much criticism of him online. Even when I consulted with Claude, Claude was very complimentary,

I noticed. Is that correct? I think loyal following on social media like Reddit. So that

this will be fun. Yes, you're all right. He is generally very well regarded. You know,

the thing is my, in general, Irish people, you know, people like them. And when you're talking

about the stances, you have to work really hard to get people to distract me. I've carved

out of the pages. The one Irish boy said that, you know, doesn't get that. Well, be in panel,

be in panel. But yeah. So the thing is that he is often talking about like I say, mental health

awareness, but also anti globalization, anti capitalism, anti colonialism,

the Gaza conflict, right? So these are things which at least in left wing quarters are

generally seen as positives. You're drawing attention to important issues, reason awareness

of mental health issues and geopolitical conflicts that need more attention as well as

the horrors of capitalism, right? Yep. Yeah, certainly ticking a lot of boxes there.

Yes. So we had a series that was on BBC3 called Blind Boy on Destroyers the World. And it

would be familiar, you know, the kind of manufacturing consent type analysis of how the world

functions and global exploitation is not a find of neoliberal capitalism. Let's put it like that.

I mean, we're going to hear that. And yeah, and on that subject of his popularity,

Matt, may I invite the listeners this time to recall what we do in this podcast, which is we are

interested in secular gurus, right? That's the that's the hook of this podcast. And we note features

that are recurrent amongst that set. We look at people from that perspective. And there are people

that we've covered that we genuinely don't like, you know, devurban, the red scare girls,

for example, who don't fit the template very well, right? Never been critical of them,

but just because we don't like them doesn't make them a guru. On the other hand,

just because we might agree with someone politically on various issues, does one not mean that they

are not, it's a guru. So we've covered this with Gary Stevenson whenever we were talking about

is inequality a problem. Yes, does that mean that Gary Stevenson is not engaged in

a guruish things because of that? No, right? So I just invite people because I know that you know

in our audience, there's a little bit of the scary towards the left hand side of politics and

blind boy says things that appeal to that side a bit more. But don't ask yourself, do I agree

with blind boys politics? Ask yourself are the things that he's doing similar to what we've covered

with other gurus, right? That's the question. Because you can completely agree with whatever

criticisms or completely disagree. And it's, it's a kind of separate question about

weller, the person is engaged in guruish tactics and rhetoric. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

that's a valid attempt to avoid getting accused of being near liberal shield Chris, but you know,

I respect it. I don't like your chances, but I respect it. Well, we know what's going to happen,

Matt, but you just got to, I just got to encourage people. Come on, like, just think, you know,

this is like, that you occasionally happens, which is like, Matt and Chris, we're very good.

I really like what they're doing until they cover someone that I agree with. And then it just falls

apart. The whole system, it doesn't work. None of it makes sense. They're just biased assholes.

After you're like, just, I mean, is it that? It's all insane. Anyway, anyway, anyway,

we may have nothing but nice things to say about. And the baggy wears on his head. It's not

a, it's not just any or want like a shopping bag. Well, there's a shopping bag. Is it? It looks,

it looks tightly fitted, at least to the pictures, obviously, and it's almost like a balaclava,

but made out of plastic. It sort of clings to his head. Yes. So I don't know if he was joking.

He said at one point that he has like a custom one, which looks like a plastic bag, which is

more, more comfortable, but that could have just been a joke. But the general thing with a plastic

bag on the head, the main argument as to why he wears it is that he wants to maintain anonymity.

Right? If he has this plastic bag, then outside of his public persona, he's not identified.

He's not recognized in public and he has issues about anxiety and introverted person,

according to himself, right? So this helps him to remain anonymous. This is the justification,

the primary one that he offers for wearing the bag. No, a cynical person, not me, but a

a cynical person might note that it also functions as somewhat of a brand, you know, like

he grows to prominence as part of a band where the gimmick was that they have a plastic bag

on their head. And into his following career, he kept the moniker from the band and the plastic

bag. The other member of the band didn't, right? He's actually on YouTube doing these

quite weird experimental art projects, like he makes these videos about creating these very intricate

dioramas or art projects. And as I mentioned, you're one of the things that the other guy

did who goes by the name of Bobby Chrome, right? Mr. Chrome was that he transplanted one of his

ours hairs onto the top of his head in Turkey. This was like part of one of those, so like he's

very involved, but that guy is not wearing the plastic bag anymore. So I'm just noting.

Otherwise, another one is completely normal with the transplantation of us.

His YouTube channel is interesting. No, it's like it's very, you would like an avant-garde.

I won't get it. I get it. Yeah, I get it. I get the statement. I was getting made there.

Okay, so he's stuck with the bag and yes, a cynical person might say it's a it's a brand,

a bit of a gimmick, a memorable one, but he's offered other explanations for wearing it, hasn't he?

Well, I think he's talked about that the specific banks are associated with a like a local

you know, shop, which is no longer inexistent, so it's like sort of a tribute to that as well.

But I mean, the majority explanation that gets cited is that it enables him to maintain anonymity

and that he otherwise wouldn't have. He told a story, for example, where he was only got

wasted. And the next day, he threw up while he was walking down a street in Dublin or somewhere

of Lemurk. I don't know, somewhere in Ireland. And he was saying, if he didn't have the mask,

people would have been like, oh, look, that's blind boy throwing up there in the street, but

because he wore the mask, like people were just like, oh, it's a drunk Irish person throwing up.

And yeah, it's useful for that purpose. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

Okay, so in the material we listen to, and you've heard a lot of other stuff by blind boy,

I've only heard this one, you know, and they're doing just enough to get by.

But so this is a, this is like a, it was called a phone call episode. It's an off-the-cuff

riff and a stream of consciousness, isn't it? Yeah, so he refers to this as a phone call

episode. And well, let me just play it because I have the clip where he's explaining

what he's doing. Repel from the Melty Bell you sweltering Emmets. Welcome to the Blind

Podcast. If this is your first episode, consider going back to an earlier episode to familiarize

yourself with the lore of this podcast. I'm busy by this week. I'm in the middle of my Irish

tour. Tomorrow night, well tonight, if you're listening to this podcast and Wednesday morning,

I'm in Vicar Street, sold out gig in Vicar Street. I cannot waste. As I've mentioned before,

gigging and touring is very time consuming. So for this week's podcast, I'm going to do a phone

call episode and a phone call episode is where it's very kind of riff, my riff off the top of my head

and the podcast isn't rigorously researched or written. Yeah, yeah, so and you can hear that too,

something we forgot to mention, which is that this is a kind of ASMR. It's like, yeah,

there's that plinky music in the background, soft piano or whatever it is. It's going to play

for right and the delivery is like a guy whispering in your ear and telling stories and that's

that's what it's like for right, right? Some people might love that. Some people might enjoy it. I

can't say I'm a phone of this kind of delivery. I think you know, podcasts create in general a kind

of audio intimacy, if you like, right? And there are ways to ratchet that up and like whispering

with soft music playing might be one of those ways, but yes, so that's that's the delivery ticket

or leave it. Yeah, yeah. And of course, the framing there is that this is a stream of consciousness

riff. So I guess it's a it's a caveat that you shouldn't take any of this too seriously. It's not

carefully researched or anything. It's it's just thoughts coming into his mind that he's

sharing with us. Yes, that's the general disclaimer if you like, right? And I'm just a highlight

man. So that's the way that this episode gets introduced, right? This is the the next episode

that that came out after. So just to give you a comparison about the introductions.

If this is your first episode, consider going back to an earlier episode to familiarize yourself

with the Lord of this podcast. But if you're a regular listener, you know the crack. We're in the

gosses, the gosset of February. Things are getting nice and sweaty out there. I experienced my first

my first blast of decent sunshine the other day. The type of sunshine that hits your back

and lets you know that you have to start changing the clothes that you're wearing that you have

to adjust your attire because you're moving into a no-season. And the birds have started

chirping. There's no more silence in the trays. Now February, it's a greasy month. It's

dark day, it's mucky. It's very teenage. It's a very teenage month. Remember you were like 12 or

13 and you get subtle hormonal changes in your body. You come home from school and your

school jumper is sticky and so is your shirt. And you're suddenly thrust into this new routine of

personal hygiene. It's like, oh, you got to shower every fucking day now. You have to wear the

orange and you get spots in your face. And the change comes so quick that it takes a while to

to figure it out. And to get comfortable with the new things that are happening to your body,

February as a month is a bit like that. Visually, it still looks like winter. The trays are bare,

but the ground is warming up so everything's all muddy when you're walking it. And you're just waiting

for things to settle so you can finally call it spring. And I'm not going to say February's my

favorite month, it's not. But the name, the name February, by far, it's my favorite month because

the origin story for the word February came from. And he's going to go in there to explain the origins

of February. So I played that just to mention that his non-funk call podcasts don't have a

completely different feeling. They're riffing from topic to topic and going into history and

myth and legend and linking things together, which he doesn't this episode. But yeah, yeah,

doesn't seem to be a big distinction. And you get it. It was very familiar there. I guess artistic

associational approach he's got there. His main motif there was comparing the month of February

with being an adolescent, like a life stage. And then he presumably just moved on from there. So

so yeah, I heard a lot of that coming through in this episode too. It's kind of an artistic

mode, isn't it? Oh yeah, yeah. It's very based on associations. You know, it actually isn't a

million miles from the way that the sense makers or Jordan Peterson work that, you know, they connect

things thematically and that they go into like extended discussions of little stories to

real estate points. So it's it's interesting in that respect because like I think the people

that find Jordan Peterson appealing would not find blind boy appealing right because he he's

heading on very different motifs and political points of view. But in terms of the approach

to evidence to reasoning and so on, it is actually very similar. It's interesting, isn't it? How

how things could be immediately recognizable as being right wing conservative coded and left wing

coded. But as you say, that doesn't really mean anything. They can be structurally or formally

like underneath it. Very similar. But be appealing to completely different audiences depending

on how the coding is for whatever better word. Yeah, yeah. And you know, the app staying files,

my and the release have been just a gold mine. I kind of like online gold. Yeah.

Yeah. Hot takes and conspiracy takes and so on as well as legitimate art reage, revelations,

all these kind of things. But whenever you dump a huge amount of content out into the public,

you know, it's the same thing that happened with wiki lakes or anything like that, you know,

the the Democrats email right to protest the email hacks or these kind of things like

they're just is a a brush to kind of connect them to whatever your particular perspective

and interpretive framework is right. And blind boys doing an episode here because people have

asked them, you've got to give your tick on these these Epstein stuff, right? So yeah, well,

let's see where that goes. So here's the beginning of how this episode is framed.

Hundreds of you have been sending me DMs and asking me to speak about the Jeffrey Epstein

carry on, which is the US Department of Justice, the US Department of Justice is releasing some of

the Epstein files. And it's the US Department of Justice now, you see, you have to take that seriously.

And a lot of the Epstein files would suggest that a group of very powerful billionaires,

multi-millionaires, people involved in politics, the royal family, a lot of very, very powerful

people are alleged to be involved in sex trafficking of abusing people, abusing children,

things that to speak about them would get you labeled as a conspiracy theorist.

Now you're looking at files being released by the US Department of Justice, which are lying with

illuminati conspiracy theories and it would also appear. Nothing's being done about it.

The current president of the United States, Donald Trump, is implicated heavily.

Yeah, yeah. So here there are Blind Boy emphasizes a couple of times that this material was released

by the US Department of Justice. And I think he goes on to repeat that theme a bit. The

implication being that the institutional authority of the DOJ, I guess, elevates the

credibility or epistemic status of whatever is in those files. You have to take it seriously.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's a reference to the conspiracies by the illuminati have been

vindicated. And this echoes what other commentators have said about, you know, pizzeria is

noise, not so much of a conspiracy. And actually also highlighting mentions of pizza in the emails.

And I'll just say my head like, no, that's not actually true. Like the lurid claims of

pizzeria, curinon, illuminati people have not been vindicated by this. This is like a popular

narrative that you see online. It's been echoed on the right by a whole bunch of people as well.

People like Bill Moore also saying, you know, no, we know what's true. And that's not what the emails

show. What the emails show is elite networks. People being psychophantic to Jeffrey Epstein,

not caring about his crimes. People like Elon Musk asking the party with him, all this kind of

thing, right? Lawrence Christ being a creepy dude. All these kind of things, what they don't reveal

is that there's a network of secret pedophile trafficking going on. That is out in the open,

disgusting emails. No, actually the emails don't support that claim. They support what we already

knew, which is like Jeffrey Epstein abusing underage guards and people not caring about that,

right? And of course, there's a massive corpus of material release, like it's a real bulk release,

including not only emails, of which I've read that like a, like only a small percentage of them

are in any way sort of connected to the scandal, like the vast majority of communications there are,

just basically this mover and shaker schmoozing with a bunch of other powerful people, right?

Now, there's also a bunch of material like victim statements and things like that, but like a lot

of them are anonymous or there's FBI tip-offs, for example, from anonymous collos, right,

which are related. Some of them, which blind-boiled reference up, you know, were later sort of

removed whenever they were making lured claims about Donald Trump, but like in this case,

you're talking about a colon line where people are just free to say anything, right? There are also

more serious claims and so on, but it's like there's everything mixed in here. It's fertile ground

for conspiracy theorists. So with that in mind, let's see where we go here, but one thing that you've

noticed is that blind boy does constantly appeal to the fact that the Department of Justice has

released this or no, you have to ticket seriously and I'm kind of like, you know, an anonymous tip-off

to the FBI isn't suddenly valid because the FBI released it or an investigative reporter

talk about it, right? Like it doesn't, it doesn't make it valid because it comes from the government.

No, that's right. It's conflating random and sometimes totally unsubstantiated allegations

as revelations and sort of leveraging the fact that this came through the USDAJ as

implying something it doesn't. Yeah, and oh, just a clip from later, Matt, to make the point that

he actually is talking about, you know, conspiracy theorists being vindicated.

So look, loads you were asking me to talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

The thing is, right? So fair play to the conspiracy theorists. All right, you were right about a

lot of stuff. Unfortunately, you were right. What a lot of the conspiracy theorists were not

right about was who was doing it. You've elected into power, Donald Trump, right?

So the people who are are funding right wing groups around the world, that the people who

want you to turn against immigrants, the people who want you to turn against feminists,

trans people, women, the people who want you to hate walkeness, the people who

tell you everyone is a Marxist communist and they want to destroy the world.

The people have told you to turn against a walk. They're funding out of that. Okay, so those

people are actually the ones who they really want you to be against immigrants and feminists

and trans people. They really want this so that we have the type of division that distracts us

from what they're doing. I think they funded things like Q&N, the alt-right, they also funded conspiracy

theories about a shadowy global pedophile elite to make it look ridiculous so that some people

would never touch it because it is so ridiculous. Like Adrienne Crom. I think it's ridiculous.

It only just occurred to me now, but that theory has got there. It's actually incredibly similar

to one of Brett Weinstein's theories, or we could have been Eric. Do you remember Chris?

Which one? Well, he had a theory that the powers that be Goliath was actually putting all of

this, releasing all these clues about this crazy conspiracy. So it would attract conspiracy theorists

and then would delegitimize them by the way. Do you remember that? Yes, that was Brett.

Yes, Brett was saying people are trying to make this conspiracy appealing so that we can

delegitimize conspiracy theorists. Yeah, there is like a similar DNA there in Nakhlaim.

And the thing that is presented there is the conspiracies are right, but it's just your targets

are wrong. Like the shadowy elite are the right wing people and they've created all of this.

It's like they funded QAnon in order to throw you off the scent of the real conspiracies.

And yeah, that's quite a meta conspiracy theory. That is up there. I've got to say with Brett.

Okay, but you can also hear he's obviously linking this to like kind of all of the left wing

badges, I suppose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is of course the commitments of the audience.

So I think that's quite a, well, I can see that such a move would be effective, I think.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And actually, Matt, there's an old parallel. I was going to point this out later,

but I think it fits in with these clips of our plan. So there's one where he's talking about

the global elite's plans, right, and what they're up to. And he's going to connect it to Gaza,

which is something that dramatically comes up quite a lot. And again, as you say,

this is something that is more appealing to the kind of left wing audience. But when you

listen to this, I just want you to try and see how does this differ from the greed reset

conspiracies that are more popular on the right. Okay, let's see if there's a difference.

In the face of climate collapse, I think they're trying to replace a huge amount of the population with

artificial intelligence robots. I know this sounds fucking nuts, but you can see it on folding.

They're putting a lot of money into artificial intelligence robots that can perform the work

of the working class. They want to move to a type of technological feudalism where, and you can see

this now with how huge giant investment funds invest in property. So they don't want to

future where people own their own property. They want a future where we perpetually rent.

So everything is perpetually rented, not just your home, but access to resources like

food, water, the technology that you use, everything is it will be shifted towards a subscription

model. You're not ready even to consume or anymore. Everything is your subscribing or renting,

and you're tied to that. And then likely because of what Palantir is doing, which is Peter

Taylor's company, they're going to use AI to try and have some type of social credit system where

your access to the things that you can rent is denied if you don't behave properly. If you look at

this, Trump and his freedom council and some of the proposals that what they want to do to Gaza,

the city that they were rebuilding Gaza, like if you look at the plans that they have explicitly

laid out, the people in Gaza won't have cash. They'll have like digital credits like Disney

Dollars. So there's full control of how they spend. The land is treated as a redevelopment

asset, not as a homeland. Gaza would be a humanitarian zone rather than an autonomous political

entity. The population would be viewed as like aid recipients rather than citizens. Just this weird

AI controlled technology ruled by Trump's board of peace, as he calls it, right?

Well, Chris, on the surface, that does have a lot in common with the Q and on level

conspiracies, different branding, of course, different vibes. So, yes, they're replacing all the

people, but it's not the white people they're replacing. It's the working class and so on.

So the details change, but the structure is very similar.

Yeah, I just heard a lot of echoes of Jim's Lindsay type stuff, right? You'll all nothing

and be happy. They want to take everything and make it subscription services. And I looked in the

some of this stuff around like cashless Disney box in Gaza. And this really, it's through

like kind of proposals that have been made about the fact that because there's going to be these

rebuilding efforts in Gaza, you know, this is part of the idea. Because of how much resources have

been degraded there, like with money production facilities and so on, that crypto currencies or

what not might play a part in it. But it's all, you know, it's just very much in the thing of

Trump saying, will rebuild and it'll be an incredible utopia and all that kind of stuff. Like it's not

that they're not setting up that there's going to be like a techno utopia in Gaza where people won't

own anything. And this is a trial for the rest of the world. And yeah, yeah, I think there's a theme.

I mean, similar to James Lindsay or frankly, any of them, there'll always be grains of truth

in the things that I'm saying. There is a recent recent, there wasn't a recent argument.

That's right. Like the world economic forum did mention eating bugs or something, you know,

so there is, there's always raw material to build off. But you have to look at that narrative

and ask yourself, is it reasonable? I'm still a little bit stuck to about what's the great distinction

between renting food and consuming food? I mean, like, what is this? Like is it the same thing?

Like you buy the food, you eat the food, then you have food as later you buy some more food.

Like it's like, what's the big distinction between? I think the claim would be linked to,

you know, the kind of Monsanto, renting the terminator seeds and this kind of thing. Like, I think if

you got into it, you would get into it. Okay. So once again, literal seeds of truth, the seeds of

that's what I would take it to be. But you know, the general thing is like they want to,

you know, extract more money from you in shittification. Yeah, it's like this. Yeah,

and the only 20 would say this. So yeah, okay. But you know, even if you agree with that general

overall statement, I think you have to realize that our parallels with what Alex Jones says.

No, he's talking about the fact that Teal and Curtis Jarvan have these anti-democratic

wet dreams about the techno-futilist states that they're going to set up. And those are true.

Again, we've listened to Teal talk about that. But the fact that people say that does not mean

that it is actually a fact that Teal is controlling all of the government policies. Yeah.

And likewise, I think you have to take Trump's statements about turning Palestine into the river

era of the Middle East filled with gold plated hotels. I think you have to take that stuff with

the greatest soul. Yeah, I mean, he might want to do that. But you know, that's the thing. Trump

wants to do a lot of things and claims a lot of things, right? So you can't just take it as because

he posted that video on Twitter or whatever that that's that's what's going to happen, right? Like,

no, yeah, you got to be more more skeptical. But like it doesn't mean Trump wouldn't want that,

or Peter T doesn't want that kind of future where there's the tech feudal overlords, right?

It's not like that. But even in that case, Matt, like Palantir, for example, he talks about

a social credit system, but the CEO of Palantir and the various other people in that, they also

are talking about, you know, that because they are anti-communist, right? They were always presenting

that China has social credit systems. And we want to destroy that. But here, blind boy says,

oh, no, Palantir is the one that's going to bring that in, but they position themselves

as the anti-communist. So everybody's accusing everyone that they're all going to bring in

social credit systems and techno, techno slavery. Yeah, I mean, it is interesting how the same,

the same sort of conspiracy narrative actually can serve politically diametric purposes. So,

so easily, like it doesn't take much modification to do so.

Yes, well, let's return down to earth because it was about Epstein, right? Those clips that I'm

playing come later. But let's build up to those conspiracies. It goes further. I should say as well,

but here's the beginning. Millions of files were released this week by the US Department.

Here's the thing. Some of the things in these files, alleged cannibalism of infants.

It's, I believe, the testimony of a person who said they witnessed it may not be true, but the point

is it's been released by the US Department of Justice. You see, so now, see things have moved from

10 file hats, online, Reddit thread, two, released by the US Department of Justice. And you see

that massively changes things. And some information is being interrogated by media. Some information

isn't being interrogated by the media. And from what I can tell so far, like I said, police are

assessing something to do with Andrew. And police are assessing over and in England.

Police are assessing something to do with Peter Manderson. And whether or not he disclosed

Manderson was he was business secretary to the garden brown when he was prime minister of the

UK in 2009. And the police are investigating whether he disclosed sensitive government information

to Jeffrey Epstein, which is white collar. We call that white collar and that it's more serious

than white collar crime because you're talking about someone in a position of political power

and they're going against their country and they might bring a bit of sedition into it. But it's

in that white collar territory. Okay. So Matt, you heard there, you know, there's reports

of cannibalism and like, you know, they're not verified, Matt, but the fact they come from the

Department of Justice, that changes everything, doesn't it? And like, I mean, just the point,

no, it doesn't, right? It doesn't. You can get anonymous tips that are reported on Reddit or

that are reported to the FBI. It doesn't mean that you have to take it, especially, I mean,

people should be skeptical in general of, you know, authorities and so on. But in this case,

the fact that the Trump Department of Justice released something, no, it doesn't mean that it's

definitely not much more serious or that kind of thing. Like the Trump administration put out of

the thing saying, the lamb league was proven on the, you know, the official government sites.

That doesn't mean, no, you have to take that seriously. Yeah. And one of the epistemic problems

I had with this episode was that he made those caveats or just a couple around. Now, you know,

the cannibalism, those reports may not be true. But then he goes on to treat a bunch of other

equally unsubstantiated reports around, you know, ritualistic murder and bodies being buried

all over the place and golf courses as being, you know, very substantiated that they have to be

taken extraordinarily seriously. So, yeah, so overall, the framing is we need to take everything

in these files as kind of verified to some degree. Yeah. Yeah. So you brought up that there's

going to be references made to secret buried bodies on golf courses and that kind of thing, right?

And what that is in relation to is some accusations, right, which are reported in the file. So,

here's details about them. So the Department of Justice released this one and then deleted it

after an hour, which means this wasn't supposed to get released. So this is, it's a victim statement,

I believe, and it says an unidentified female friend was forced to perform oral sex on

President Trump approximately 35 years ago in New Jersey. The friend told Alexis that she was

approximately 13 to 14 years of age when this occurred. She allegedly beat President Trump

while performing oral sex and was allegedly hit in the face after she laughed about biting

President Trump. The friend said she was also abused by Epstein. There's another mention of a

14 year old girl, a big RG parties with Bill Clinton present Victoria Secret Models Donald Trump.

Another part online complainant reported she was a victim in a witness to a sex trafficking ring

at the Trump golf course in Palo Verde between 1995 and 1996. She reported Gilein Maxwell as the

Madame and broker for the sex parties with Epstein, Robin Leitch, Donald Trump.

Complainant reported participating in orgies and that some girls went missing,

rumored to have been murdered and buried at the facility. Complainant reported being

threatened by Trump's then head of security, that if she ever talked of what went on there

and who she saw, she would end up as fertilizer for the back nine holes like the other cons.

That's a quote there. That was released by the Department of Justice that was taken down

very quickly but it was released, it stayed up about two hours. It's well documented.

The only response from the White House and the Justice Department,

regarding that is that there was a release a news release with the new batch of fires

and that the Department of Justice and the White House said some of the documents contain

untrue and sensationalist claims against President Trump that were submitted to the FBI right

before the 2020 election. If you've been looking at a corporate media, their folks and

on Peter Mendelssohn, I have fucking Prince Andrew.

Oh, so this is true by the way, Ma. There was a bunch of material released,

which included those accusations and they were removed after a couple hours or whatever,

right, with this presented. But can I just mention here, the blind boy says, you know,

the media is not covering this blah, blah, blah. When I looked this up, the person who'd

reposted it with the documents, right, with the claims in it was Jake Tapper, the CNN anchor on

Twitter viewed 17 million times, right. So like if the CNN anchor is not mainstream media

reporting on it, like, you know, it's not claimed that they're not interested in connections,

the Trump or whatever. And you're like, what are you talking about? They are. Like the right-wing

media is constantly trying to downplay it. But the general media is very clearly interested in

connections with Trump. Yeah. Yeah. The right-wing media is very interested in connections to Bill

Clinton or to Bill Gates, naturally, left-wing media very interested in these connections to Donald

Trump. And you know, they're obviously incredibly lured and disturbing allegations, but they are treated

as revelations rather than unsubstantiated reports without a source from a data dump. Now,

yeah, I think he is guilty of just just landing that stuff out there without any kind of, what's the

word? You know, there should be some kind of caveat there, I think, rather than taking it, or rather

letting the emotive work of those statements just substitute for critical analysis.

Yes. And what he wants to see, what he suggests, like, what should happen in this case, right?

Is this? Now, we can't remember it because we're wondering whether or not Trump has been buried

in women and golf courses. And like I said with that allegation, it's a victim statement in the

files. I mean, here's the thing. If anyone ever says that, you then immediately expect that the

golf course gets dug up, don't you? Someone has just mentioned the murder and a specific place

where bodies are buried. Would you not just dig up the golf course then and find out? I haven't

heard anything about that. The reason the golf course thing is sticking out for me is I'm not going

to repeat the specific threat that was quoted in the files. I said it a couple of minutes ago,

I'm not going to repeat it again because it's so violent and misogynistic, but it's alleged that

Trump's denhead of security, that his threat to girls who had participated in Argy's was,

you're going to end up as far as the laser in that golf course. And I can't stop thinking about

Ivana Trump. Ivana Trump was Trump's first wife. The mother of

Ivanka and Donald Jr. and Eric, when Ivana divorced Trump in 1990. She accused him of

rape. She accused him of cruelty and abuse. She wrote a tell-all book about it. She got a divorce

settlement of 14 million in 91, which in these days of billionaires, 14 million doesn't sound

like a lot. That was a lot back then. Knowing Trump's personality, he holds grudges. Anyone who's

close to him says that he holds grudges, he doesn't let go. He's not a person who forgives people.

Okay, so there, my blind boy is like, isn't it suspicious that they haven't go in and

dug up the golf course, right, to check if there's any bodies there. But one, no, that's not

suspicious. It's like, you don't often anonymous tip. If you did that, you'd be digging up

trying things all over the place. And in this case, I went and did a whole bunch of research

for various claims of blind boy mix here, right? And he's pointy-noid that Donald Trump buried

his ex-wife, Ivana, on the golf course. This is true. Now, some things to note here,

some people have pointed out, well, isn't that a fucking weird thing to do? Like, why would you

want to be buried on a golf course? And it is, right? Like, as a normal person, it is weird. But

some counterpoints to that view that it was like intended to deserve. Is that first? When Trump

was requesting permission to create a cemetery on his golf course, the planning thing he

asked for a template course and the justification, this was before anybody died, was that he

wants to be buried there because this is his life-favorite. So this is one of the worries going to

bury his family, including himself, right, overlooking his golf course. So the initial thing should be,

okay, and this was done before his wife died, right? You can go and see the reports around him

claiming this. All the people have claimed it's because he wanted to try and get like a tax

loophole where he wouldn't have to pay tax on some land, if it were classified as a cemetery,

right? Could be as well, I wouldn't put that past them. But the other thing is that this funeral

for his ex-wife was very public. It was in 2022. It was attended by, you know, all her children.

So if this was intended as a huge insult, the her doesn't strike as odd, that it was all,

you know, done in public with Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr and stuff, they were all there,

and it was intended as an insult, but like an insult where he justified it in advance by

presenting it, but that's where he wants to get buried too. Yeah, but also that the

the argument or innuendo there is that this is some kind of proof that a bunch of murdered people

are in that golf course, and so that the reasoning is essentially the files contain an allegation

that women were threatened with being buried on the golf course. Ivanka Trump was buried on a golf

course, and then this sort of, you know, the pit of his stomach kind of stuff comes out, you know,

he can't separate these two things. They're just there in his head, and he builds this sort of emotional

case connecting them as if Trump has followed through on this purported threat, and he

disclaims that he doesn't have proof of any of this, but you know, he spends quite a lot of time

working on that framing, planting the inference firmly in the list in his mind. So this seems like

a textbook example of, you know, just asking questions, you know, conspiracy hypothesizing, it might

not be true, but what of it was true, right? And yeah, like the the other notion is like, isn't it

suspicious that they haven't dug up the golf course, and you're like, no, that's not like that works,

right? You know, if I rang up the police and said there's a dead body buried in the cemetery,

there wouldn't be like, oh, shit, we better go, well, Chris, that wouldn't be,

let me restate that, let me restate it. So leave it as funny.

If I rang up the police and said there's a, there's a murdered person, and they've been buried

in the cemetery in an unmarked grieve, you better get down there, too sweet, and start digging up,

like what does blind perfects gonna happen? They're gonna drive down and start excavating this

in the cemetery? No, it doesn't work like that. So there's an implication that it's suspicious

that they haven't done that, and it's like, no, that's not suspicious. And then, as you said, Matt,

the inference that he wants to plan into the audience is, well, come on. Oh, and a small point,

Matt, but in that clip, you heard him say that, you know, Donald Trump never forgives a grudge,

but like, how does that claim hold up with JD Vance being his vice president? Didn't JD Vance

call him the next American Hitler, or something like this, or, you know, presented he was a terrible

person, and in fact, a lot of Trump's cabinet seemed to have previously disparaged him or

claimed that he was a terrible person, and kind of do what blind boy says, which is he never

forgives? It seems more like Donald Trump is extremely transactional. If you're praising him

unreservedly, no, he doesn't really seem to care that much if you were strongly opposed him before.

The main thing is, do you bend the knee, no? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that that is his character.

Yeah, and he has interesting friends like Mamdani and from New York City, for instance,

I've got a bit of a bromance going. So, so, triple typically say a bunch of horrible things,

but if that person is nice to him, there's no barrier in Trump's brain to just doing a full 360,

and either either hating someone who was previously loyal or loving someone who was a previous enemy.

Yeah, it's not a, you know, it's not a huge point. I was just like, that characterization seems

slightly off. Yes, he's someone that told Scrudges, but he also, it does seem like you can get him

to forgive his grudges. Just flatter him, just flatter him a few times.

Yeah, and his ex-wife, Ivana, seemed to go down that road, initially strongly criticizing him,

and the choosing of reappe and all that, but in the end, you know, getting on as well as you can't

that when you're Trump's ex-wife. Yeah, I think because Trump himself is such a bullshit artist,

and totally transactional, and just says things, he expects everyone else to be the same.

So it's all part of the game. I don't know. There's no psychoanalyzed Trump, but whatever.

Okay, yeah, I'm just saying, I'm just saying. You're just saying.

Ivana died in 2022. She fell down a stairs,

and I didn't know if you remembered this, but it was very strange.

He buried her on a golf course. Do you remember that 2022? And it being in the media and everyone

gone, that's so fucking strange. Why would you bury your ex-wife on a golf course?

The fuck is that about that so strange to have a plot in a golf course? That's really weird,

and everyone noticed how weird it was, and there's just something in the pit of my belly

that when I read that thing in the files where, allegedly, women were threatened with, you'll end up

as fertiliser in the golf course, that this was the threat. This was the violent,

misogynistic threat to women. I can't separate those two things.

Ivana Trump was buried on a golf course. I can't separate those two things. It feels,

it feels like he's getting his revenge on her in death. It feels like he threatened her with that

at one point, and then followed through. I don't have proof for that, but I'm just saying.

She's buried on a golf course. Then then you have this thing in the files,

threatening women to be buried on golf courses.

Yeah, so this is what I was saying. These emotional gut feelings are elevated

to paper over the very large cracks in the analysis. Like talking about my gut feeling and

there's something in the pit of my belly, and I just can't stop thinking about it. I can't

separate these things. He just keeps repeating this. Of course, the allegations are awful.

They're very emotive, so it's an effective rhetorical approach, especially when you're dealing

with stuff that naturally sparks a strong emotional reaction.

Yeah, violent misogynistic language. He hammers that point. If you think we're being

at the Lung Fair, the blind boy in that, he's just riffing and like he's not

connecting dots that are too far apart. So this is the next part of where this goes.

The other huge thing that's standing out for me from the recent release, the Epstein-Phose release,

is since the mid-2010s, we saw emerging online, the culture wars, the emergence of the alt-right.

Like I've been using the internet a long time, and I remember, like coming across neo-Nazi

message boards, like fucking hardcore racists, and coming across these message boards in like 2009,

and it was not mainstream. They were weird racists, and these tiny little message boards,

it rarely spilled outside of that, it didn't become popular, it didn't gain traction.

And then, in the mid-2010s, you start to see the emergence of the alt-right, neo-Nazi's,

the manosphere, real toxic bad shit, starts to emerge in the 2010s, from starts on the likes of

4chan, an incredibly toxic place. Ground Zero for this was a message board on 4chan called

forward slash pall, forward slash politics, and that the alt-right emerged from that message board,

okay? And in the fucking Epstein files, Jeffrey Epstein met with the founder of that board

in October 2011, and within 24 hours of their meeting, that message board is formed, which would,

it would suggest that, the culture wars themselves of the 2010s might have been a psychological

operation, the goal being chaos, division, the chaos and division that were living with right now,

is he from that 2011 message board, you follow all of that, up until game or game 2016,

that's what got Trump into power, Brexit came from that, online radicalization,

the polarization, see before that you had the Occupy movement, the Occupy movement of 2010-2011.

So, so what we have here is, is hypothesis? A conspiracy hypothesis, if you like.

Yeah, the idea that culture wars were engineered to break the Occupy movement,

so this flowering of a unified class consciousness was threatening to the elites,

so they manufactured these identity-based division to break it. It's an elegant argument,

I don't see, what do you think, Chris? Well, so like to lay it out for people, right? There's

a thing in the Epstein files that shows that Jeffrey Epstein met with Christopher Poole,

the founder of 4chan, and that shortly after that meeting, there was the creation of the

R-slash poll board, right? Yeah. And by the way, Chris, it was like, it wasn't like within the

next 24 hours, wasn't it? Oh, no, well, the guy Poole said that Epstein had nothing to do

with the reintroduction of a politics board. There was one previously, and he said,

this decision to add the board was made weeks before the meeting, the board,

according to him, was added 24 hours prior to the first chance in conflict with a social event.

Yeah, yeah. So that's the first problem with it, right? Which is that, first of all, the

details around this meeting are not quite correct. It can very easily be a coincidental meeting,

especially given how many people Epstein was always meeting. And this slash poll discussion board,

Blind Boy Claims, is like the key thing that created the entire alt-right phenomena.

Yeah, I mean, it was a forum that fastered that, but like the red R-slash the Donald also did that,

that was like a cultural movement. And also like the notion here is this happened in 2011,

and then it created the groans for Trump to be elected in 2016. So like Epstein planned this

out, right? He met Christopher Poole. He said, you know, you better put this forum together,

so that we can gain control. And like the evidence for this is the meeting. There's only two emails

without reference, the meeting with Christopher Poole. And Poole's account is, I'm at him at a

social thing. I went to one launch. It was uneventful. And that's it. I regret meeting him, blah, blah,

but for Blind Boy, this can't be a coincidence. It's got to be connected. And it's not

thing, Matt, that like, you know, it's conspiratorial reasoning where Epstein is doing this larger than

life figure. So he has to be a very important node in all these events, right? Like it all comes

back to whatever the specific person you're focusing on at that time is. Yeah, and it's a massive

claim that the decline of the Occupy movement was engineered by by Jeffrey Epstein.

We're not going to spend all our time debunking these things, but I think most listeners can

see that this is an incredibly weak conspiracy. It's a great, it's a massive reach. It's a

conspiracy theory worthy of Brett Weinstein. Yeah. And this comes after the golf course conspiracies,

right? So the point is there's lots of this. So you've got to hear a lot more of it, right?

And there's also a predictable element of that reassess its head here. This is the connection

of where this conspiracy eventually ends up. See before that, you had the Occupy movement,

the Occupy movement of 2010, 2011. After the Great Recession, you had a lot of young millennials

gathering online and in public spaces, saying, we want to take down the bankers. Something is

wrong. We want to we want to get at systems of power here. And then all of a sudden,

just when Occupy looked as if people were unified against neoliberalism, then this division

emerges where these people are racists. Then these other people are mad woke. And now nothing,

not there's no unification because everyone is fighting about identity politics. So you get

tribalism and polarization and division. There was always a power to me that felt that.

Well, I don't know if that shit was a conspiracy or not. But it's doing the job of what a good

conspiracy would do. I'm not saying it's true. I have just saying it could be true. Yeah. I mean,

do you remember, but one state's theory about the Israel Palestine conflict? It was engineered to

foster so division amongst him a COVID dissidence. Yes. Just saying. Just saying. Yeah, that's a

seam. It's just a different target group, right? Bratz is very much focused on him and his friends.

So our plan is is more like a traditional Marxist interpretation. But the thing here,

which I want to point out to people is that according to Browning Boy, according to what he says,

this was all about protecting the neoliberal world order. So electing Trump was about protecting

the neoliberal world order has not worked out for neoliberal globalized because what I see is

protectionist tariffs, attacks on the UN, cozy enough with halitarian regimes. The greatest

attack on the neoliberal global order is Trump and his cronies, right? Like so the neoliberal's

globalists really miscalculated in this. Yeah. Look, this is a common feature of conspiracy theories.

Like the moment you stop and think about them, you know, they just fall apart. That doesn't make

sense. But I do have to hand it to Brownboy because I think his narrative is compelling and he

tells it well. Like if you don't do the annoying stuff that we've been doing and you just listen

to it, it's a nice sounding narrative. The way he tells it, all of the pieces are kind of aligning

and falling into place. Yeah. Yeah. No, Mark. One thing is that people, I suspect will say,

you're picking a very conspiratorial episode, right? He's he's saying that he's just riffing and

you know, going to float ideas are there. I just want to play you two clips from the following

episode, which didn't have the same distributors. I mean, it had the distributors, but it was a bite

various things. But one of the things that was about was the controversy over the half-time show.

You know, in America, bad money performance and the the outreach because it was in Spanish,

right? Yeah. So this is from a separate episode. But listen to this. It's like, there's the cave

over there where Rami, listen, Rames were born and now you celebrate this festival. So now this

pagan thing gets folded into a nationalism and the MAGA equivalent is like the Super Bowl there

was at the weekend. And the Puerto Rican performer, Bad Bunny, was the main event during the

fucking Super Bowl. I don't fully understand the Super Bowl, right? But it was all Spanish language.

Now, first off, the Super Bowl was also propaganda. No disrespect to Bad Bunny, no disrespect to

people in America who are oh, speak Spanish. It was controlled theater. It was the appearance of

being subversive. The NFL, the National Football League in America is not fucking subversive.

It's it's billionaire dominated. It's a car tell of franchises. It's the machine of American

capitalism. And it's broadcast on on the networks, which are also funded by billionaires. So I

would I would call the Super Bowl half-time show that everyone saw clips of on the internet that's

controlled opposition. The half-time show at the Super Bowl is one of the biggest events in America.

The advertisement slats that are purchased are the most expensive advertisement slats.

This is big money. This year, the main performance, the main musical and dance performance was by

the Puerto Rican singer, Bad Bunny. It was all in Spanish. Why do I consider that to be propaganda?

I think it was deliberately so that white American people would feel overwhelmed. And it justifies

the actions of ICE. How about that? So it was what do you call that? Yeah, controlled opposition

or whatever, but it was basically it was all a plot. They deliberately platformed a Hispanic

singer to do something in Spanish knowing that it would be like a red rag to the bull of the American

right and therefore spur them to greater heights of xenophobia.

Well, it goes it goes a little bit deeper than that, man. It's not just that. So yes,

it'll cause a kind of reaction amongst the right, but also the American people in general,

man. I mean, listen to this. ICE are operating as a Gestapo. They're illegally detaining people.

People who speak Spanish, people from Central and South America. They're doing this. They're

killing people. They're imprisoned detaining people without due process. You're seeing that the

collapse of civil rights of law and order. If you're a white person, sitting at home trying to

enjoy the Super Bowl in your small little white American town. And if for one second, you're

starting to think, Jesus, maybe this ice thing is a bit heavy-handed. Maybe I don't like this.

Two people were murdered in Minnesota and you're seeing people who voted MAGA. Now going. I

didn't vote for this. I didn't want this. Podcasters like Joe Rogan who encouraged people to vote

for Trump. They're now saying that I didn't want this. I didn't know this was going to happen.

Now all of a sudden, you're trying to you're trying to watch the Super Bowl and the halftime show

is in Spanish language. It's to make those people feel overwhelmed. It's to make those people feel,

oh my god, the country is actually being taken over by people who are not quote unquote American,

people who speak Spanish. And maybe I'm being cynical. I just refuse to believe that the NFL

and the TV networks in America are going to do something subversive on behalf of the Spanish

speaking community in America. I think it was theater controlled opposition theater to make

a white American audience feel as if they're being replaced. They're being overwhelmed.

And then Fox News theatrically were saying, this is wrong. This is wrong. We need something American.

So they did the alternative. The turning point USA had an alternative Super Bowl show with Kid Rock,

white people stuff, all white people stuff. And the turning point USA are turned of Super Bowl show,

right? Yeah, how about that? Well, yeah, that's that's kind of a wild there, isn't it? I mean, I haven't.

I didn't expect that. Look, I mean, the thing is, Matt, he says there, I don't think the NFL

were intended to be subversive. No, they weren't. They hired a very like the world's most popular

musical artist who performs in Spanish. It's it's not a subversive thing. No, it's a very

popular artist. So my boy's like, there's no other explanation. Why would anybody want to have

a Spanish singer on the figure? They're like, what are you talking about? Like, you remember the

Korean guy that went popular with Guangnam style? Yeah, yeah, like it's, I love this. Yeah,

whatever. Like people always, like whatever your political persuasion often listen to music.

Have a ride. Yeah, the lyrics will often be in another language. It's not the subversive thing

that he thinks it is. Yeah, it's a, look, let's just be frank, it's a absolutely stupid conspiracy

theory that he's proposing that. Yeah, and it's Bret Weinsteinian level, right? Like, it's a

dish notion that it's all, it's all cafe, it's all controlled opposition and secret things,

and it's the millionaires and the billionaires and the capitalists, they're all creating this

play of conflict. And you know, this is a separate episode, right? So I'm just highlighting that

this is his narrative across episodes, which is the culture wars and all that stuff,

but it's not really what it's about. And yes, there are cynical interests, right? There are people

that are interested in whipping up on the immigrant right? There are people that benefit from

culture war channels. I complain about them every week, on here and on Twitter, right? That does

exist. And yes, capitalists are interested in, you know, selling products and increasing

the thing, but this notion that it's, it's all about dividing the working class. And his

conspiracy, just to recapitulate, is that the half time show was orchestrated in order to

increase support for us by making white people uncomfortable by seeing a Spanish

cigarette talk or saying, and you're just like, no, it's at the very least, it's again

a hell of a reach from the existing evidence. Yeah, it certainly is. It certainly is.

And I think that, you know, even if people realize that that is like

par-dematic conspiracy hypothesizing alab, Brett Weinstein, the fact that he invokes ice and,

you know, ice, they're acting as a Gestapo, they're imprisoning people, they're killing Americans

in the street. You know, this is all well documented and true. And so the feeling is,

well, that's why I agree with that, right? I think that what's going on in America and the way

that Trump is using ice as a private army to terrorize immigrants is a problem. So it's kind of like

that is being into the foundation. And if you are being critical of the conspiracy theorizing,

aren't you then defending ice? Yeah, yeah. I don't know whether he's doing it consciously or not,

but it's an incredibly effective rhetorical tactic. I mean, we saw before how, you know, he

took care to mention all of the par-dematic left-wing issues. You know, people we should be concerned

about in supporting immigrants, trans people, feminists, et cetera. And the other kinds of ways

in which sort of emotion is laid into it. So I can imagine, yeah, I mean, if you're a progressive

lefty person, like I am, and you're relaxing at home and you're listening to that,

there might be a couple of warning bells going off in sort of thinking, well, maybe, but then the

sort of emotional gut punch comes in and you totally don't like those things. So you,

you not alone and accept it. I think it's effective whether he's doing it on purpose or not.

Yeah, and when you add in to this game or like, no, I don't know, you know, this is just speculation,

but it just feels right to me or whatever. And then when people respond, they can say, well, he,

he said that he doesn't know definitely that it's like that. And it's just people pick up on this

with Jordan Peterson and Brett Weinstein and Dee Rubin or whoever whenever they add in strategic

disclaimers that they don't really mean that because they're going on to outline, you know,

the truth is great there and great depth and very strongly. And it's, I just want to say,

it's the same here, right? That's the same feeling I got here. Same picture. Yeah. Well, anyway,

back to the Epstein stuff. I always had a feeling in my gut that we would one day find out that the

culture wars of the 2010s both left and right were being stalked by an intelligence agency of

some description. And the reason I thought this was because sometimes I would look at how people

become so divided online. And I just said to myself, well, if this isn't an intelligence

operation or stalked by some type of military intelligence, it's certainly doing the job of it

because what I see is chaos. And one thing I always said too, whether it be Facebook, Reddit,

Fortune, fucking Twitter, you're trying to have political arguments on a platform that's owned

by billionaires or the billionaires have decided that all discussion must take place in the form of

turn and response combat with algorithm algorithms that reward hate, fear and anger. So you can't

fucking solve anything in those platforms anyway because they're designed for conflict. But you

have it there in the Epstein files release this week. Ground zero, ground zero for the fucking culture

wars 2011 that message board unfortunate forward slash Paul that opens 24 hours after the moderator

meets Jeffrey Epstein and there it is in the emails from 2011. And then there's another claim,

but this one isn't isn't as verified. You can't see an email about it, but a lot of people reckon

that this is hearsay that Gilein Maxwell was doing the same shit on Reddit except for the left

that one has less proof that's not in the files. No, it's got less proof than the other one

and the other one had very little proof. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's tempting to

fact check this. I did fact check this. Yeah. I know you did. It's kind of boring during fact check

not. No, I disagree. I think it's necessary at times because I heard this

same thing crop up two or three times in different contexts about Gilein Maxwell stoking the

culture war on the left and Epstein involved in at the very least involved in the creation of

slash Paul on 4chan. So that's them, you know, ticking the right and the left and

pitting them against each other. And it's it's like a kind of appealing narrative, but that's

true. We've already mentioned the issues around the claims that Epstein created or was instrumental

in the formation of 4chan Paul, right? And hard doesn't really hang together. But in the case of

Gilein Maxwell, this mostly hangs around in the counter was identified that the two key pieces of

evidence presented are that it has a name which includes Maxwell in the user name and that it's

supposedly stopped posting whenever she was arrested or another key event where she was attending

something and stopped posting around that time. And that's it. That's literally the only

basis of evidence. So, you know, people on the internet might being people on the internet.

I'll put the link to it. Somebody did a very, very detailed deep dive into that account and why

it isn't Gilein Maxwell. And like the only evidence presented is not just very weak, but it's not

even convincing in the minimum form because they point out, for example, that these two specific

theaters that people point to. We have a whole bunch of records of Gilein Maxwell official

appearances and you can go and look at the kind's history and what she was doing and there's

plenty of events where it's just posting away about random things at the same time. And then on top

of that, this is a Reddit power user. It's like one of the people that got to the million promotions

or whatever before anyone else. So, it's like a head moderator on a whole bunch of different

channels. So, it's somebody like who was devotee a huge amount of their time to moderating on Reddit.

They took place in things like ask me anything, talking about themselves and describing

themselves as a middle-aged man. Now, you could say, oh, that's all disapprobation that they're

trying to do for that, but they were consistent. Also, on top of this, the account was posting

after the alleged stop time. It was just posting internally to all her mobs and those messages have

been released. So, like, when she was then going through the legal system, it was still busy being

around it, moderator. So, yeah. I know, but it doesn't work on any level. The Occupy thing happened

in about 2011. This whole thing, this board was around then, sure. The culture was emerged

like years later. So, as you said, it's just retrofitting explanations to things that don't need

a conspiratorial explanation. Well, there were culture wars before 2015 and 2016, but you mean like

the alt-right kind of? Well, I'm sure there were cultures before 2011 as well. But, you know,

like it's just looking for an explanation for something that doesn't require a conspiratorial

explanation. Like, oh, gee, people fight a lot and respond to rage bait and post-provocative things

on the internet. Anyone who was using the very early internet knows what the medium encourages.

And the only version of that, I think that is reasonable, is the version whereby corporations

that are keen to attract users and are keen to promote engagement will obviously design their

algorithms to work with. Prioritizing engagement. Yeah. Now, whether it's, you know,

cute, kitty videos or stuff that, you know, he had a lot of responses. Yeah. Unfortunately,

it's his human nature to respond to emotional and negatively railing content more than

serious debate. Likewise, Occupy fell apart for well-documented mundane reasons. And also,

that sort of shift towards identity politics also had mundane explanations. So like you said,

you know, tabloid headlines highlight that people are susceptible to art rage and demonization of

art groups and so on. But what people will be thinking about, raising country examples. Oh, hold on.

Are you saying that various propaganda organizations don't engage in the efforts to stir up social

division? Didn't we have well-documented cases from the internet research agency, right? The IRA

that René de Resta talked about where Russia was attempting to so discord prior to the 2016

election on Facebook and other social media, right, posing as either progressive or hard-right

groups and like encouraging division amongst American society. So that does occur, doesn't it?

I'm a professor Brian. Yes. Well, that structure of rejoinder is the one that conspiracy theorists

supply to literally every conspiracy. Oh, you think that the government didn't organize

for the twin towers to be brought down as a false flag operation? Haven't they done false flag

operations? Don't they do nefarious things like this? Don't they try to control the population?

The usual thing is the point to a specific historical example. But actually, somewhat interestingly

in this case, the well-documented propaganda like Russia and enemies of America and whatnot

tend to not be of much interest to the like a blind boy I don't think spends much time discussing

Russian disinformation efforts and that kind of thing. I guess the point is is that when you have a

very clear mundane for one of a better word because often the real causes are not like mundane

and the in the normal sense, for instance, it's not mundane for planes to fly into the twin

towers, but terrorism is in the sense a mundane thing. It exists in the world. It's not a speculative

thing. So you don't need to search for extraordinary answers for events that have pretty clear

and well documented non-conspiratory reasons for occurring. You kind of accept the conspiracy

interpretation of events if there is good evidence for it. And as we just discussed, there

isn't any for the idea that the culture wars were orchestrated by a secret group of people

involving Jeffrey Epstein and the person that created the poll message board as this huge long

game back in 2011 to suck energy out of the Occupy movement. It's an extraordinary thesis which

isn't required to explain the social events that have happened over the last 20 years.

Sure, sure, but I put it to you that maybe there's another explanation.

I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty of what's released in the files. Millions of them have

only seen some. What I have seen is shocking, especially some of the fucking images. Some of the

images are almost child sexual abuse material. The the Department of Justice themselves said they

did not release images that depict torture and death. So that means they exist, but they haven't

released them. What we're seeing is organized crime. That's what this is. It's organized crime,

perpetrated by the most powerful people and wealthiest people in the world. I don't think there's

going to be accountability first. I think the fact that it's slowly being dripped out to us.

The fact that the why aren't they just releasing everything at once? They're not. They're

drip feed and the other thing too is like they have to release these files because of the law

US civil procedure and the transparency laws they required that the disclosure of evidence

once secrecy is no longer legally justified. So they have to. This is evidence and they have to

release this legally. The slow drip feed. That's the bit that's quasi-legal.

And I think it's it's like what we saw with the genocide in Falcon Gaza. There's a brazenness

to us. It's a flaunting of a lack of accountability to exert control and power.

What about that, Matt? Did I follow that correctly? The drip feed release of the data dumps associated

with the Epstein files is a is a way to flaunt the lack of accountability and to sort of

send a message in the same way that the Israeli actions in Gaza were struggling to see the

connection. Well, I think the claim is that like it's psychological warfare that like the powers

that be. So here he says they're not releasing it all at once and why aren't they? But I mean one

there's clear reasons why they're not doing that which concern things around you know privacy

of victims and so on, right? If you take a very charitable thing but in a lot of cases they don't seem

to care about identifying victims. It's more along the lines of protecting people that will get

mentioned in the files on which might have connections to the Trump administration or

or all their powerful people and so on. But even with that they release three and a half million

documents so that he's like why didn't they just put it all out there and they did they put out

like a whole bunch of it. They haven't put out a whole bunch of other material. I think there's

six million documents or something others supposed to be but they have just dropped a huge amount.

Now he's saying the fact that this keeps happening where they're like shoving out a whole bunch of

documents in various releases. It's a strategy by them to do psychological warfare where they're

flaunting their ability, right? And in the same way in Gaza they're denying what everybody can see

is happening on social media because the mainstream media is just going along with the kind of

Trump slash Israeli regime. Yeah so once again there's an incredibly mundane reason for the fact

that every single document hasn't been released all at once whether you agree with that reason or

not but I think I assume that when any government department just releases information and

afraid of information there is some kind of rules there and like some human has to kind of

cite it and tick it off. There's some administrative overhead and when you're talking about

gigabytes and gigabytes of text files. Yeah there's a very mundane reason why it all hasn't been

released in one go but I guess it's just a springboard for another bit of speculation.

Yeah and also just you know incompetence. The Trump administration has all these factions and

people responding differently to requests and so on so like there's this sheer fact that they're

a terrible client car and one thing I want to make clear as well is like the the criminal

conspiracy stuff that often gets invoked around these kind of things so just to be clear there was a

primary criminal conspiracy that is very well documented you can find it in the emails and it was

litigated in court cases as well and it concerns Jeffrey Epstein, Gillian Maxwell and other people

in Epstein's orbit and employee that primarily served for him to get access to young women

for his sexual pleasure. This is the primary thing like he's a super predator in the realms of

Jimmy Savel or the Japanese idol company Johnny Kerigawa right so a super predator and that

that is well documented and the way that it operated which was detailed by the people doing

the investigations the women themselves who were coerced and did taking part in it was that it was

a pyramid scheme of sorts were young women vulnerable women and underage girls were coerced

into giving massages to this wealthy millionaire slash billionaire right and then inevitably they

would go beyond that before sent to sexual encounters and then they got out of that role by bringing

new guards new women their friends contacts and it created this horrific pyramids game which a lot

of the women involved have talked about you know the the kind of shame and stuff that's involved in

that because they also hurt other people and as a result some of them were potentially going to

be prosecuted for their the role in that. Now there's other people and there are people mentioned

in the files that were considered possibly to be treated as co-conspirators right but that's a

limited amount of people I think you're talking less than 10 people in total definitely under 20 or

that kind of thing you're not talking about the network of thousands of people trafficking women

across countries and whatnot to all these men and figures in different countries be it's on like

you know a client list the Jeffrey Epstein had that is what's not documented and that's why

the New York Times if you read they have an article which is saying you know how we're digging through

it and they're asking people and they're very clear there's all these horrific crimes going on

there's abuse of young women but they're saying but what we don't have evidence of in this material

is a huge criminal conspiracy and that that's partly why you're not currently seeing

prosecutions right the prosecutions that have started to emerge are all to do with things like

sharing state secrets Mandelson is sharing state secrets and in Prince Andrew the case that they're

going after is him improperly performing his role some official role in the government because

of what's in the emails and the you know the way that he's performed that kind of thing so

that's what they're going after Prince Andrew already did go through a court case because there

was credible evidence for his abuse of some of the girls right associated with a Virginia

referee so it's just like you know more details might emerge could emerge those wider things but

from what it looks like it looks like there's a powerful individual who had a predilection

for young women and underage girls and many many powerful people didn't give a shit about that

in some cases they were happy you know the party with him or him to bring girls and do the kind of

things that you would imagine that creepy wealthy men want to do with young women but

the way that it's treated is like that crime and trafficking that's not interesting enough

as a story that there was this highly connected and very wealthy predator that was indulged by the

people on this orbit and by many powerful and well-connected people right they didn't care

that he was doing what he was doing right relatively in the open right the joke about it and all

kind of thing that's not enough what it has to be is that that was a front for intelligent agencies

in order to gather information which ties it back to the Gaza conflict or the creation of our

slash Paul the get Donald Trump into power or you know creating the actual culture wars and you're

like why is it not like there is a conspiracy here and there is abuse of people and there are

sexual crimes but it's just not you know that's the bit that seems to be if you focus on that

you're missing the forest for the trees yeah yeah I mean and I think blind boys not alone here right of

course this is this is a massive hollow balloon in the public discourse and I think the broader point

there is that there's kind of a fuzzy distinction in people's minds between what is established

um versus the spectrum of increasingly lurid theories and narratives ranging from a

eyes wide shut type deviant any moral network and secret club of ultra rich people to the kinds of

stuff that blind boy is outlining and yeah I mean what you said is right I mean I think I think

where you and he wouldn't disagree at all is that it all reflects very badly on the so-called great

and the good in modern western culture I mean there's no doubt about that and as well it should

it's just maintaining that distinction between reality or what we can establish with any kind of

confidence and lurid speculation yeah yeah and you know one point that often strikes me in these

conversations is like there's a I think taken for granted where we're getting these revelations

map that like the rich elates you know the kind of the people in the all end podcast the people in

Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein's orbit do you realize that behind closed doors they were actually

bastards you know they're the kind of people that look down on others that don't seem to show

much concern except for like how they're going to have fun make more money and you know the kind

of people that make off color jokes and a pure aisle yeah or cheating on their cheating on the

wives you know like all these kind of things and I'm like I mean am I just unusually cynical that my

background means that my general baseline point of view towards like rich millionaires and billionaires

is that they're orsels right like that's my that's my baseline I recognize it's a bias that some of

them are not going to be and there's probably you don't like a spectrum of orceleness or shower

of bastardness but the general thing is I expected them to be you know when I see David Sark's and

Jason Colock in this and whatever talking on that show I'm not like oh yeah they seem really nice

guys I'm sure their emails are you know very reasonable and every time Elon Musk's emails or

something gets released it's full of sycophantic simpering and like people imagining themselves

the master which we listen to them talk and podcasts constantly like that so it's just I don't know

who it is that finds it a revelation that rich people are sometimes very terrible people like

I don't know I've just seen it being presented as well know we know and I'm like didn't we always

know yeah yeah yeah well I don't know it's a spectrum I mean you know Bill Gates might be might

have been having affairs but he did some good in the world as well so you know the people

are people are a mix but like but that's that's the thing there's nothing in my mental apparatus

is like Bill Gates couldn't be someone that cheats on his wife and was sleeping with young women

or underage women it's possible and is somebody that helped to eradicate polio or what is it

measles right whichever ones he's trying to get rid of like I can imagine both things are

entirely possible yeah yeah yeah entirely there's no contradictions there at all no okay well

anyway you got that official good good oh no I am sure it'll come back for them okay so

after that month next is here and the goal is to exhaust the average person so that we become

conditioned that this being the new reality and that's what the Epstein files is doing it's

conditioning us to go oh I guess there's a big elise and pedophile ring and sex trafficking ring

and nothing's gonna be done about it and I as an individual can't do fuck all about it so

better just get on with my life and hope I don't hope they don't target me see if our media

isn't aggressively calling out the things that we can see with our own eyes and then the

justice systems around the world aren't doing it like the brits are under pressure so you've got

things like police are assessing the Andrew situation you're assessing really are you if that

was my neighbor down the road I'm pretty sure that be arrested don't think you'd be assessing it

be arrested so then we are like well you can't rely upon journalism you can't rely upon the

justice system I guess this is the new reality now familiar motifs my journalists or all liars the

justice system and the institutions can't be trusted yeah and there's a secret elite pedophile ring

which is being flaunted in public and it's not going to be taken care of and also you know Alex

Jones often says that they have to do it in public right they have to leave clues because it's

like tended to rob it in your face and he's saying the same thing right they're conditioning you to

be weak well then what's that word where you demure to afford a sub-servant where you become

cowardly and sub-servant and kind yeah yeah yeah look I mean you're you're right just in purely

analytic grounds you might agree or disagree to some degree with the wide variety of things

that blind boy says but it it does fit the structure of conspiracy theories right this is exactly

the same format that you will see regardless of the political orientation and you know it's the

kind of messaging that is going to be much more appealing to you if you are like it's more on the

populous left kind of side of politics and you don't like elites and you think that the system is

is all set up to hold the little guy down then this kind of thing will work for you

but you just have to be aware that those motifs like they're doing it in plain sight

just so that they can laugh at us or you know make us feel that we're completely

impotent that they're leading clues you just have to recognize this is the structure of

all conspiracy theories so yeah you know like again the mundane reasons like there's no doubt

there is a degree of incompetence and corruption in any human institution including I'm sure the

current justice system and police in the UK but there is a more mundane view of events

which is that to the extent that people are not getting rounded up by the police and

getting charged with things is that they may not have the evidence yet to clinch a case just like

with any criminal investigation yeah and there there is there is the fly in the ointment that like

Epstein was facing trial Gillian Maxwell was convicted there supposed to be in this but if there

is so much powerful control over the justice system like the bit that is true is it's well-known

that if you have money you can hire better lawyers you can have more complex accounting arrangements

you know Donald Trump gets treated in court very differently than some random guy on the

New York subway this is true and it's known all across the world it's very hard to prosecute

leaders in international courts right like these kind of things are well established but

it's this claim that once accusations exist you know like blind boy wants to grieve yard dug up

right if there aren't people clapped in chains every time my release comes on you're like no but

that it wouldn't even work that way like Jeffrey Epstein still would have had to go through a trial

right and he says like my neighbor wouldn't get that treatment really your neighbor wouldn't

have to go through a trial if he was alleged to be a pedophile like I know people connected to friends

and family members right were accused of child abuse or involved with child abuse or whatever

they went to trauma that people presented evidence they were sentenced and it wasn't like they

just said well we don't need any evidence because you don't have very much money so justice systems

are never perfect there's always mistrials of justice and you can look at like the deal that Epstein

got in the first case as an example of a miscarriage of justice but it's it's just like that presentation

that like the whole system has corrupt nothing applies the things like on the right wing people talk

about to tear policing to tear judgments right so what's the difference in the rhetoric isn't it

just the same thing but their target is saying you know white people are not treated to see

him white working class right wing people are not treated to see him as you know the minorities and

the liberal progressive groups that are favored yeah okay okay next clip next clip let's move on

next clip okay so in comparison to the non treatment of the criminal elite class you have

country examples where they do throw the book of people and these are telling

I mean that's why Luigi Mangione terrifies them they can down hard on Luigi Mangione very hard

on him because Luigi Mangione went all on a second the US health insurance system

so people pay for health insurance but health insurance companies make money

not by helping people who need health care but by profiting from denying it

oh so you make money when the person dies from cancer that's how you make money is it

when the little child whose parents have paid for health insurance you make money by denying

the health insurance to that child and figuring out a way to let that child die that's how you make

money is this why isn't that illegal it's not illegal oh that's the system and then Luigi

Mangione went that seems like a very serious evil crime to me and the justice system system

isn't working for me and politicians aren't working for me and the media isn't working and with these

health care what these health insurance companies are doing that appears quite like an evil crime

so Luigi Mangione went I think I'm gonna have to do justice myself

and he assassinated the CEO of United Health Care and he wrote a little manifesto

and laid out very clearly not this is what this is and this is why I'm doing it I'm not crazy

this is what I'm doing and then the justice system came down really hard on him that were pushing

for the debt penalties the media came down hard on him politicians the system came down hard and

said that's a criminal see that guy Luigi Mangione that's a criminal he's a criminal doing crime

yeah yeah the system man so yeah I mean look again this he built a lot of narrative on to

a single point which is that Luigi Mangione was charged with the crime and this is a mundane

explanation which was that he clearly did shoot someone and kill them in broad

yeah so kind of an evening but I mean it was still a very good footage yeah so so that's why

he's been charged with the crime like I think if there would it was incontrovertible evidence of

such a serious crime in the evidence around the Epstein case I'd be against a particular person

let's say Bill Gates then Bill Gates would also be charged with the crime there is a there is a

simpler explanation why Mangione was charged at someone like Bill Gates or some other rich

random person who was named in the files hasn't been yeah but but if you remember his narrative is

that there's videos in the files of torture and potentially cannibalism and stuff and you know

so like I think the implication for like this has been there are documented crimes probably even

worse because according to his description or Mangione was pretty much during the right thing he

was the only reasonable thing by executing the head of the United Health Care because they are

the immoral murderers you know their goal is to make money by denying life-saving treatment

young children and you know I think you've got to realize that that is presenting a cartoonish

villain right like what's presented is elites are potentially facing on the bodies of young children

right the health care CEOs they're setting around rubbing their hands because the only way they

can make money is denying coverage to six children Chris we're also have heard the claim that the

health care system only profits from making people sick that's right so there is a there is

some overlap in the facts to be clear to be clear for anyone who's not liking what we're saying I

mean I live in Australia and I would ban private health if I could I like socialized health care

I don't like it either but it is cartoonish to then treat anyone involved in a private health

care system as being guilty of murder in the same way that Luigi Mangione is yeah yeah and you

know just to be clear as well here Matt so there's another flying the ornament fact here because he's

talking about you know they came down and like let's accept his framing for a second that Mangione

you know he killed someone possibly right but lots of people have killed many people so

why is he being singled out and even if we adopt that Mangione is not facing the death penalty

anymore the the judge for right the charges that could have led to that right so he's facing life

imprisonment but given his narrative there we're the seek to do the harshest thing that's not really

about justice right it's it's all about so yeah so I guess this is the thing when people are talking

about this system and just circulating wildly at all of this yeah um when you have a politician

or a journalist or you know a justice system or that does something good or in line with what

they think is good for instance prosecuting someone or maybe dismissing the charges that would

lead to a death penalty for Mangione like that's not the system but when when the system does

something they don't like like even the prosecutors even proposing that in the first place

or not charging someone that you would like to see charged then that is the system I think like

on epistemic grounds that's my issue here not political ones per se is that it's very easy to

just wave your hands at all of this and and it's very vague and and nebulous what you're referring to

but it only works as long as you keep things incredibly vague as to what the system is and you

have to posit these like really strong nefarious motives to this all-pervading and all-powerful

entity with your call it Goliath like the Weinstein's do or your call it the you know liberal

capitalist system it sort of functions the same way yeah and like the thing is insurance you know

like as a system it functions as a business by it makes more money than it pays out right like

you're insure your car and the hope is that you don't get into a crash but if you get into a crash

your insurance will cover the majority of the expensive but the only the system only works because

most people don't crash right this is the the general logic of insurance companies so

it's not wrong to say that like an insurance company profits by denying payouts right that's

part of it but like the primary way that insurance company make money is that most people are not

making insurance games so it's the premiums that people pay and then you know like the payouts

are less than the amount coming in so they presented as the only way it makes money it's like by

denying you know necessary medical treatments and like you say I'm not a defender of whatever

decisions are made by United Health Care or any insurance company I don't know enough about

the details although I don't think the blind boy head will have looked in detail given all the

other topics that he raises but it's if you presented as purely like the the CEOs are all just

there and they're all just plotting what is the way that we can kill the most people and make the

most amount of money I think you have a cartoonish view of how those people function and it is

the kind of view where you can then kill them because they're villains who like if you take

them out of the world it's a better world for it yeah I mean if as you say if you're going to run

a private health system or a private anything system a private telecom system or a private education

system then some of the payments will be spent on payouts or services and some will be spent on

administration and there'll be a profit margin I think the payouts for American or Australian

private health companies and I've got it too well I've got a private health insurance because

you're kind of forced to an Australia because you get taxed more if you don't have it but anyway

it's in the high 80s in terms of what the payout ratio is to what the premiums are right and

that residual of 10 or 12 or 15 percent whatever it is is going to incorporate all of the administrative

stuff for all of the costs of doing business plus some percentage profit margin I don't know

what the profit margin is but it's probably not exceptional now you know you could frame that as

them feasting on the bodies of sick children to get their filthy luca and you could think like me

just like to be clear if the government runs it you're still going to have administrative costs

so it's not going to have enough money. Well you're going to have denials as well for like

claims me now under any circumstances. Yeah that's right there are certainly denials in the

Australian system the Australian public health system will cover what it can afford and it won't

cover other things because they're so expensive it's it's just not considered to be a good cost

to benefit ratio. Yeah so you know you can frame that stuff as nefarious or more nefarious than

it is but you know again it's pretty mundane a lot of the stuff that is getting pointed to

as just the absolutely evilest thing in the world is you know you can like it or dislike it

but it's not the caricature that he's presenting it as. No and you know one of the things that I

would notice like when people want to do this like construct the you know the worst villain

on the other side for whatever it is they'll just emphasize particular selective features like when

the right wing media wants to talk about these events which blind boys talking about they will

much more strongly emphasize the family life of the United Health Care CEO the young children he

had right and so on which in blind boy story they're just not mentioned right like because

it's a better story to focus on Luigi Manjani as somebody you know crusading to help people and

they're the ones killing children and doing the evil things right so it was a vigilantly

action on behalf of the people but he doesn't spend much time dwelling about the impacts right of

the person that was executed or whatever because it just isn't as as nice as a story and in the same

way like right wing media won't want to focus on the excesses of the insurance company or like

things that they've done which have lead to them being readily vilified in the the coverage of them

on the the left that supports what he did so yeah I'm just saying you know the kind of binary

monochism and the selective portrayal of sympathetic characters yeah these are these are classic

rhetorical it's universal techniques yet that they never go out of style no yeah and you just pick

whoever's the good guy and whoever's the bad guy right um my my let's get out of politics for

a little bit I mean there's gonna be politics in it but um let's go to rituals rituals are

important things I'm a researcher the focus is on rituals right this is my Bollywick as you like

to say I'm blind boy I had some things to say about initiation rituals something which I've written

so I think what we're seeing with it the Epstein stuff is a conspiracy but I contextualize it as

it's organized crime right that is organized crime and a mass of international scale involving

the most powerful and wealthy people the it looks like a combination of blackmail and gang

initiation let's use the hell's angels as an example we can all agree that the hell's angels are

international criminal organized crime organization all right across different countries they're

involved in drugs murder prostitution everything and anything that the hell's angels and other

some outlaw motorcycle groups are they're mafias that's what they are the reason of singling out

outlaw motorcycle gangs is because because they're really strict initiations right

in order to have a successful international criminal organization where your co-workers are

not nice people not people with honor not people that you can trust psychopaths

in order to have internet a good business relationship you can't trust your co-workers because

they're murderers and scumbags so what they have to do is everyone has to have dirt on each other

so if one person falls everyone falls so do you follow the logic there is the implication that

everyone in these elite circles has dirt on each other but they can use to protect themselves

oh yeah and you're connecting it to the yes that is still it is the the broader connection but I

meant about the the criminal gangs and what they're up to like why they are engaging in initiations

and this kind of thing oh okay yeah I guess I guess so yeah I guess there's there's truth in that

and you know it's fine to make analogies right my god I think he could certainly make an analogy with

the way the Trump administration works as some kind of organized crime gang as as long as you

appreciate it's it's it's a it's a metaphor yeah and you know look my like I said I specialize

in so far as I specialize in anything in dysphoric collective rituals so I'm very well aware of

like the bonding effects of you know painful rituals and initiation type rituals I've written

about he is in the knowledge kind of thing so there are elements that are true about you know the

bonding effects of a people have talked about initiation rituals as Ilar and being self-inducing

cognitive dissonance which we discussed recently under the Code de la Academia or as a kind of

co-illitional psychology tool where you're testing for free writers right you have to go free

the bad initiation in order to be trusted enough with like groups resources and so on right there's

work by Aldo Simino on this topic so there's stuff there and it is the case that groups that are

involved with more high-risk activities have to be more concerned about the affection and loyalty

of members so you tend to find initiation events amongst military groups terrorist groups criminal

organizations secretive you know societies or whatever the case might be right so there are

these things and also sports teams similar clubs as well but these are like groups that require

tight bonds right and high levels of trust amongst members but he mentions that the criminal gangs

in particular that they get people to do this in order that they have like collateral on the people

right and that's how they're able to keep everybody in line it's a bit like what we've covered

with the cults where they're encouraged to give in criminating information you know provide

nude photos of themselves or whatever and then if they leave or Scientology you know

keep a starkest secrets if you leave the group we'll tell everyone what you've told us right so

this this is a thing which exists but no I doesn't exist where he says it exists and the way

of these he says it exists so let me move on he's still talking about the biker gangs here

so there's court reports of in order to get to the highest echelons of certain outlaw motorcycle

gangs you have to do some pretty depraved shit in the presence of other people one of them

necrophilia is one of them which is sexual intercourse with a corpse because if a person will do that

definitely not a police officer because they've figured out any police officer as a job who's

undercover even if they're in the job ten fucking years it is highly unlikely that they're going

to have sex with a dead body in front of other people in order to get to the top of the organization

so if you're willing to do that then you're not a cop so you get to get into the elite inner circle

of this outlaw criminal organization now let's move from like motorcycle gangs which

you know with motorcycle gangs you're talking about very traumatized poor and working class

usually white men joining motorcycle gangs now let's go for really really push people

so in I think it either fucking acts for their Cambridge I'm not sure which one but there's a club

called the Bullington Club so there the claim is there's court reports then in outlaw motorcycle

gangs one of the ways that you get the top of the organization has been forced to do public

performances of necrophilia and that will prove that you're not a cop not that's not true

that's not true that is not a documented or proven thing that is an urban legend and it's not

associated just with bike or gangs it's associated with take your pick right like whichever

moral panic that you want so like blind boy there this is the tone of confidence that he

explains that event right and how this is you know the kind of thing that they're doing

and we know this and this is the and this is the and this is the puzzle piece that it's going to help

us understand the behavior of Donald Trump and the all-in guys and some English aristocrat etc

the other little non-secretors that before his thesis was these terrible things are done in

order to have blackmail material prevent people from defecting because then in this one he said

no no this is this is a way of proving your loyalty proving that you know to cop that kind of thing

so it's it's a bit I guess it's kind of related yeah yeah I think it kind of it kind of fits both

by the but it's it's like there aren't gang initiations where you're required to kill people

right attack people beat people up where you have to get facial tattoos various other things right

there are like costly signals of commitment to a group but it's he goes for the most lured

example of having sex with a corpse and it's it's presented like and all of the examples that we

hear for I did so Donald Trump is murdering young women and burying them with the remains on

his golf course as an insult there's cannibalism in the files where people are being accused of

eating the the health care CEOs they're profiting off the blood of young children like every example

is always the most emotionally evocative and lured and this one struck me because I specialize

in this particular topic and I know that that is not true right like it is it is not a well documented

fact that outlaw motorcycle gangs or any group required sex with corpses as part of its hierarchy

and definitely not ones where it was a public spectacle where the the people were like well done

you're not in and you're we're not respect you as like a you know a high ranking member of the group

like it's just it would even be better as like a punishment or this kind of thing but it

it's based on the truth that there are groups and organizations which require you to perform

costly signals of commitment and these can involve things that involve breaking taboos right so

if you just don't reach for the most lured example you can you know make the argument

more accurately but it's not as evocative we'll invite the reference to having sex with corpses so

yeah yeah I think this or a good balance it was actually one of the better

in relatively speaking parts of his dialogue where you know the general thesis that you could

understand elite depravity through the lens of group cohesion blackmail and escalating commitment

that general point is is fair I think but like you say when you look at the sorts of things he

cites it is one on the less verified into the spectrum or in the case that the you mentioned

just merely urban legend when he could have gone with examples that are a bit a bit of verified

and also that he he chooses of course the most lured and the most emotionally affecting

points and this is and this is a theme throughout the entire episode that the the argument is kind

of stitched together from statements of emotion statements of feeling and evocative lured

examples with a kind of tendentious relationship with what is actually verified that that's the

common pattern yeah and he moves on here to talk about like the David Cameron story you remember

this mark about like he was accused of putting his penis inside a pig when he was at university

at that pegsmouth I should say and this being part of you know the upper elite

gyps that people get on in the Bullington club or whatever right you know whatever elite group

he was a part off in Oxford or Cambridge did you remember this story I think we remember that yeah

yeah there was a black mirror episode kind of based on the theme yes yes I don't like

David Cameron well I'm not a big fan and I'm also not a huge fan of you know the elites in

the British society the Bullington club has well documented terrible history he talks about them

you know trashing places and then paying for it after the meal again this that is something that's

like actually quite well documented and but the pig thing ma the pig thing it's not well documented

it's based on some people giving a quote that they heard from someone that they'd seen the photograph

and then nobody was ever able to find a photograph and all their people denied it it was reported

like in a book as I heard this from a a source so like while it was fun to imagine that David

Cameron did that there's actually not any strong evidence that he did but blind boy when he reports

it he's like taking it for granted and then you know why would he do that and he goes into the

psychology of you know why David Cameron would do that and why it makes him different than normal

people but he was just talking about motorcycle clubs and stuff and presented that they're working

class so in his version working class people also have sex with corpses right whenever they want to

get up their criminal organization but in his next stage it's like they've got a different

psychology than the rest of us because David Cameron and others are willing to do these weird

initiations with pigs and yeah he talks about the skull and bones society in America and so

listen to this so with the skull and bones I think Bill Clinton was in it George Bush was in it a lot

of presidents it's Princeton are one of them I don't know same shit elite colleges in America where

future presidents okay one of the skull and bones rituals again this is rumor it's not 100%

verified but I think they have to climb climb into a coffin and masturbate in the coffin

while being surrounded by other members and then listing out secrets as if they're at a confession

and if to do this for group cohesion humiliation everyone has dark on each other and then a lot of

them going to become American presidents the point I'm trying to get at is it's not satanic

worship you don't need anything supernatural here you just need horrible people with access to

power so I imagine you don't know much about this colorboards society but how do you think how

accurate would you imagine that is I'm probably guessing not very accurate yeah well so at least in

this case there is citations or one Bill Clinton no not a member okay but whatever this is a

phone call episode but the the coffin masturbation ritual comes from a single investigative article

in 1977 right and it's not that they masturbate the the accountant now almost they lie in the coffin

and recount like sexual histories and personal secrets you know the same kind of thing that we've

talked about that high demand cults get people to do so the masturbation detail has been added

in in later reports which seem to have taken this detail you know they're reporting their sexual

history including masturbation and then has kind of like a game of telephone ended up that they

have the masturbate in the coffin and you see it sometimes mentioned in articles in the Atlantic but

referencing back to that 1977 article or another conspiracy book from the it is but the actual

sources for that tends to be the only thing that they deny right they mentioned that the more

lured claims about masturbation didn't happen but you know I know blind boy is in this case just

repeating things which are already existing out there but it's again like the version of it which

is the most lured right we'll find the masturbation detail it's kind of like it's a you know dramatic

ritual but it's it's not as the pre-empt right and and this is a society that you know is like

associated with the late university a bit like Freemiasons I can imagine dramatic rituals

around skulls and and coffins and all this kind of stuff but here again it's it's kind of like

Indiana Jones you know people jerked it off of other things and it's and they're all going to

become you know the future presidents and you're like no it's not the thing is like I could very

easily imagine that at some points in time in some fancy private school I don't know Zeta Omega Delta

society or some weird back alley of Westminster all kinds of weird shit has happened

from time to time but I think you know what's going on here is pulling out you know mostly unverified

accounts if not just urban rumor and weaving it into what is a compelling narrative about the

psychology of elite depravity and yes I think it's it's fine to have a thesis and it's fine to

make analogies and you know whatever understand this psychology and stuff but the methods here

and what he's resting it on is pretty weak and it does remind me of a Jordan Peterson or a

Weinstein kind of citing these rather weak little cherry-picked things of evidence and from that

weaving very strong claims and and and building basically an entire edifice off of a foundation

that's very insubstantial yeah and often psychoanalytic in the reasons that people are you know

like with Peterson why left wing people are doing what they're doing right it's because they

they love whatever the transgressions and it's it's connected to the forward figures and their

their love for postmodern neo Marxism and you know all these kind of things right I've seen

narratives like this recently built around the idea of the feminization yeah yeah and same kind

of sight sighting cherry-picked random little things weaving it into a narrative and yeah you

could do that it's just I wouldn't trust it but I I know again you're going to say well this is

just Chris come on the pedantic fact checking but can I also mention that the three presidents were

William Taft right from the early 20th century and then George Hitch Bush and George W Bush so

there might be you know an other factor like the familial connection might play a bigger role in

their presidential run than their membership in the scullan bone society but in any case so you

mentioned about the whole goal of this is is kind of to support the broader edifice about like the

psychologizing of high CEOs and politicians are not like the rest of us and you know like I said

I share the the kind of beast line negative image of that class of people right because I think

it's it's very normal depending on your background or culture but you know blind boy is from

Ireland the definitely in Ireland it is very very normal to have a negative view of elite British

Tafts right or or elite Irish people to but I tell you a lesser extent and yeah so just listen to

I'm sure Obama rationalized it by saying look I'm defending the constitution like the CIA told

me to do it I don't know people who get into positions of extreme power they know they have to

under the system they have to create a hell of a lot of pain not even drawn strikes

someone who rises to the very top of a corporation the company can make more profits this year

if you close that factory and 500 people who are supporting their families lose their jobs but

we'll make more profits okay do it the CEOs of health insurance companies your job is to make profits

by denying people health insurance that person who's dying of cancer who has paid for their

health insurance every single year for this exact moment you have to figure out how to not pay

them and let them die because that's how this model makes money the people who rise to the top

of the system the top of that fucking global international shit they're not good people a lot of

them might be incredibly cruel sadists they might be people who have a curiosity and about

other people's pain who get a thrill from other people's pain who enjoy dominating enjoy hurting

enjoy abusing enjoy humiliating and judge them by the Epstein files these are the the roles of being

part of that club again it's it's a stretch and it's built on emotions the imagery and emotions

I mean there's always a reasonable version of this like I I read I you know was it John Ronson or

someone or John Ron Johnson yeah yeah the other way around like whether you wrote the psychopath

test or something like that yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean you know so he had a thesis there that

you know psychopaths you know rice or all corporations I've represented because because essentially

the role requires a kind of a inhuman kind of attitude you know and I think I think there's a

reasonable version of this is what I'm saying I've no idea whether it's empirically true or not

but his version is pushed up to the max right like it is incredibly lurid it is like taking delight

like stringing these things together where you have whatever some initiation rituals and some

silly elite school and combining that with private health insurer not approving a thing

and weaving it together with the Epstein thing into a thesis that they're just bloodthirsty

people who are inflicting pain and these are the people that are running the world we have

essentially vampires a secret yeah secret clan of vampires are running the world it is what is

is what is yeah yeah and it's just over the top it is and it isn't what the Epstein files present

because like what the Epstein files present Matt is people that feel that they have immunity

and also people who are arrogant entitled arseholes but they're not people who are like cartoonishly

rubbing their hands and plotting night create suffering like people will find there's a reference

to torture in one of the emails or whatever but what he's painting is that should be the primary

for at all these emails because like what they're actually about behind the scenes is getting off

on peon and suffering and abuse and they're all like like you say evil vampires but that's

not what it shows it shows a much more mundane pervasive evil right which is just people being

self-centered narcissistic abusive sexually abusive entitled prex and the other people

primarily care about like what their interests are you know can they get connected to this

other person can they have a like a nice dinner with someone and that is a much more mundane cruelty

and exploitative system than what blind boy presents which is like a cartoonish

world of an evil vampire class that is feeding on peon and suffering the reality is most people

at the top of systems including the super wealthy and whatever they don't see themselves

as evil people and they're not engaged in satanic rituals to increase their bones together

the guys in the all-in podcast think they're the masters of the universe and they think they're all

great guys yeah they're probably not cannibals probably not I mean they're not kids

I don't know that but it's it's just it's frustrating it's so frustrating I really just like them

I don't like them I don't have to admit that they're probably not cannibals

no I'm not you know that's a accounts of villains world vampires corpse fucking gang members

blood first DCOs right we're living in the the hell world fortunately in this world

there are some good guys you might be looking at two of them you're not the president on your

point of view but um you know blind boy does detail people that he thinks are doing good in the

world and it makes quite the contrast and uh it might surprise you to find out who is you know

chief in his presentation of being a good guy but um I think I'll leave that Matt because that

surprise for for next time why do we leave people on that dark note with the ray of hope

that they're gonna hear about some more good guys see if you can guess this is an exercise

can can you guess who is a good person with this otherwise terrible and fallen world

mm-hmm yes okay and we look forward to feedback on this episode as we always do yeah and uh

this will probably be a long episode so you know that this is part one part to coming soon

to a third of me you bye bye for now

you