Are You Going to Touch Them All?

Hi, I'm Jessica St. Clair, and I'm June Diana Reveal, and this is The Deep Dive.

We're about to do what women have done for centuries.

We're crowding around the fire with our generous haunches.

We got babies hanging off our tits, and we're going to share with you our fears.

That's right, our joys, our tips on how to stay alive.

Now, Jess, we are heating a call that no one has made.

Not a soul, but you're invited to listen.

Absolutely, because we make one promise and one promise only.

We will not Google a thing, because frankly, we're too damn tired.

Please get ready to go on The Deep Dive.

I just like, I know you've had a day of it.

Tell me what happens.

OK, so as my, I've had a day of it.

I'll get into it, but it was my turn for dinner.

And instead of making it, I like scrolled on Instagram for like 50 minutes.

And then I just like threw this bizarre frozen like eggplant lasagna in there.

It's so gross looking.

It was like wet, you know what I mean?

And I was like, here's your wet, here's your wet eggplant.

And they were like, this is dinner.

And I was like, I got to get upstairs.

So like, they're down there pissed.

And I'm not there, you know, I'm up here with my rosé and with you.

And, you know, it can be happier.

It's better up here.

And I'm going to say something about eggplant parm.

I don't want to spend too much.

I know if I give you the opportunity, we'll be on this for 55 minutes.

Save it for The Deeper Dive.

You get three lines about eggplant parm, three lines.

I was told early on in my life that eggplant is the least nutrition,

like nutritional, nutritious vegetable you can eat.

Like it basically holds no value, no nutritional value.

And like, it's essentially like water with skin.

So that's something that's always struck me as a vegetarian.

So that's one thought.

Now I get two more thoughts just like, okay, one other thought is as a vegetarian,

it's often my option, right?

They love to throw an eggplant parm on the menu.

Yeah.

And they also try to do too much with it.

Because they're trying to hide that it's just a wet piece of water.

And I think, okay, so that's thought number two.

And number three is, I don't know how you prepared it.

It sounds like it maybe went in the microwave,

but I have had just on maybe one or two times at a good Italian restaurant.

If I've tasted in my life, the way an eggplant parm should taste one or two times.

I've got that's happened one or two times.

That's right.

That's like the elusive triple orgasm or something.

You know, there's always that girl in college who is just like,

like we're all eating like our rice crispy treats.

And she's like, I mean, don't you guys all have six orgasms in a row?

And you're like, wait, what?

I don't even understand.

It's always the most boring friend.

It's like, also that feels like too many.

Though like, that's what it is, right?

It just never stops and goes on for 45 minutes.

And you're like, oh god.

Oh god.

Who has the, again, I asked who has the time.

But Jessica, I just want to say that I don't know

why it's so rare.

And I've never tried to make it.

So I guess it is.

I didn't make it.

I got it frozen.

And then I properly defrost it.

I like, you know, whatever, it doesn't matter.

They're down there.

I can't hear them scream.

And I don't really give a fuck what they have to say.

I'm so glad.

I'm happy to see you.

I want to hear all about your day.

We had a couple of text exchanges where you said,

I want to be done with working on myself.

And I said, there's still a little more meat on the bone.

So to speak.

I know.

That's just like, there's still enough is enough.

But it's true.

And like I just like rolled into therapy

and like fell down onto her couch.

And she was again, like, it was kind of like when you were

in a nutshell, she's like, you choose to be here.

I don't know why every time I hand you the buzzers for like EMDR,

you say, like, good luck.

Like that's your, I'm not, you're not here under duress.

But anyway, yeah, so I did that just like begrudgingly.

And then I had to pop on over to a repair place

because my lease is going to be up soon on my car.

And I've done some damage to it.

You know, it's so hard.

I've been thinking about you and in your items,

like in sort of the computer, what's

been going on at the computer?

Yeah, the computer that was under the cushion.

And you know, I for months, that's right.

And also the car, the car feels like we need some new products.

Well, no, I think we need products.

I don't think I should be given, like just like with the toddler,

you wouldn't give them, you know, like a diamond and crusted

chalice.

Like I was given a very beautiful car.

I wrecked it.

I wrecked it.

And I didn't just wreck it.

I wreck it, Ralph'd it.

I wrecked it.

And I have been putting off.

And I thought, surely, how much could it be?

And this old Ukrainian man, he's a great grandfather, actually,

run this shop for 30 years.

And he said, I'm going to take care of you.

Because I did something that I'm going to confess this.

This is not, I'm pretty sure Casey does it too.

But this is not my best look, but I do it all the time.

When I know something's going to be bad,

and I'm going to need a discount, I say things to whatever man

I'm talking to, I say, oh my God, I just hope.

I hope I'm still married after this bill gets given to me.

He's probably going to divorce me.

I mean, you don't know how upset he is with me.

Mind you, Dan, whatever, his base is upset with me

about what I do to our cars.

Like he's not like something new.

No more or less.

Yeah, it's a Tuesday.

It's an average.

That was going to break him.

He would have broken him 29 years ago.

But I say, like, oh my God, I go just, just give us a grasp.

Yeah.

And he says, honey, and I always make sure I'm by myself.

I don't want Dan anywhere near this.

And he's like, I said, he's on his way to pick me up.

So just give me your worst.

Well, he handed me a cold bottle of water

before he gave me the bill, which I worried.

Yeah, it's like, take another sip.

Have a sip.

Yeah, hydrate before this comes down.

Well, you know, OK, go on.

And go on.

Surely, surely it can't be water sip worthy, the shock.

And then his grandson gave him the estimate.

And he said, we can't.

I think it was in Ukrainian.

Something that the effect of we can't give this to her,

it will make her pass out this estimate.

So he's like, we're going to have to go back and see

sharpen your pencils.

What can we get away with?

What can we fake?

Is there a man we can call in who buffs it out, buffs it out?

This isn't, this isn't going to stand.

So then the grandson went back, handed it back to him.

And he said, I'm going to knock another couple thousand

off this.

That's where it's still, geez, and still, and still with that.

It was a tough hilt swallow.

And so I got it the estimate.

I said, do it.

You got to do it.

You do it.

And I got it and Dan was waiting in the car.

And I got in.

And I said, I don't want to ever speak to you about this number.

And he said, OK.

I believe there are certain numbers.

There's certain things we spent money on that we take to our graves.

I can't speak this number.

Don't go looking for it.

No, and I talked about the Tracey Andersen classes.

There's certain things that you just don't ever,

you wouldn't dare speak aloud.

And we put in a place.

Yeah, I think it almost didn't happen.

Yeah, it didn't happen.

But I decided I'm not going to take it on.

Our week started as a group with a very intense experience

that told us about life.

I can't take this on as you shouldn't.

I just can't.

No, no, no, no, no.

And by the way, what I'm to understand

is these are the repairs that just send the car back

to the dealer.

That's right.

I won't ever see that much.

You won't see the fruit of your labor.

No, that's hard.

And in fact, in fact, the guy said,

if I could give you a recommendation,

this old man, he said, family is everything.

He said, family, that's everything, quite a recommendation.

OK.

And then he told me, have all the places he's visited in Europe

and he's from the Ukraine.

He's seen them all.

Croatia is really the best swimming.

Well, you know what I love to swim.

And I love to swim.

Croatia is unbelievable.

So OK.

So that's what he told you.

But did you just never think about the car?

OK, go ahead.

He said, if I were you, I would not drive this again

until you turn it in.

Because I don't, with all due respect,

I don't think you can handle keeping this.

Then I said, you're right, so I'm not doing to it.

bumps and bruises and dents and nobody knows.

There were dents on the roof.

And I've driven that car.

Yeah.

No, it's not that car.

It's a different car.

Oh, it's a different car.

No, that, yeah, I already wrecked that first car.

And then this is one that, anyway, let's move on.

But the point is, we don't have to take, you know,

and I think one of your, if I was thinking about what your legacy

would be like June and what I would say at your funeral,

the best advice, and you've given me a lot of great advice,

has been, I'm not taking this on.

It happened, but it doesn't have to define me.

That's right.

And you know what this Ukrainian guy said to me?

I said, I'm just not good at cars, sir.

I'm not good at keeping the car.

And he goes, but you're good at other things, right?

And I said, I'm a good comedian.

And he goes, say, let me be good at cars.

He said, yes.

And you're keeping him in business.

He needs people who aren't going to cars to be quite honest.

Now, I want it to talk to you because I have an interaction today.

No, I had an interaction today, Jessica, where it really was to me.

I want to get your opinion on it.

It was a great example of small talk gone awry.

OK.

Love to hear it, OK?

And I can't impress upon you enough how the, I was the recipient of the first line.

OK.

The balls come over to my center.

OK.

Great.

The doctor is in.

Yeah.

But I was at the Delta Sky Club.

OK.

Obviously, there's a buffet.

We all know there's a buffet.

And I agree with that.

And Delta is our airline of choice at the Diet of Academy, OK?

Love it.

Sky Club.

They always have like a minestrone that I'm like, oh, I don't know where this came from.

OK, something great there.

I had loaded up with, because it was early, wasn't that early, but it was like 11.

I really hadn't eaten breakfast.

So I was like, oh, wow, how wonderful that there are some breakfast items out.

Maybe it was 10.30.

And I laid it up, some oatmeal.

And I'm like, it's always there for you.

I think you for leaving this out because for us travelers, we're not keeping normal

six to nine breakfast hours.

That's right.

That's right.

We're all over the place.

And thank you for recognizing that.

And seeing us through it.

What is this love story?

Yeah.

But she shows up and she sleeps through breakfast.

OK.

Very nasty about it.

OK.

Interesting.

So I see there's tons of breakfast options out.

And there's tons of lunch options out.

And I just appreciate that.

Now, I start off with the oatmeal.

And then I'm like, because in my mind, I'm like, oatmeal's going to get me through.

Because I know as soon as I land, I have to go do a two and a half hour fitting.

And I'm like, then I got to get my mind going to be able to eat.

No, you're not.

As a volume meter, you're always thinking, when is the next time I'm going to eat?

I'm always thinking two meals ahead.

Yeah.

And I think to myself, June, this oatmeal's going to stick to you.

They always say oatmeal sticks to you.

Sticks to your ribs.

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

And I do find that.

Like, if I have some oatmeal with brown sugar, like, I'm kind of good for a while.

Yes.

I think that's going to take me through to maybe until six p.m.

seven p.m.

Well, then I look over and I see a gorgeous spread of scrambled eggs, scrambled eggs, but

nicely scrambled, nicely scrambled, not from a powder.

Not from a powder.

No, no.

And then I see little like egg bites.

Oh, you love an egg bite.

I love an egg bite.

And I thought, oh, I'm thinking of things I'm going to serve.

But your funeral egg bites is going to be one of my funeral egg bites.

But I see those little egg bites and I think, you know what?

Because I'm a Delta Sky Club member, I don't feel badly about throwing out my oatmeal

and just making a totally different choice.

It was like Vegas rolls like I wouldn't want you to eat something you didn't want.

I felt that.

Throw out the oatmeal.

Go over, get my eggs, plate full eggs.

And then I see, oh, I don't have my silverware.

OK, I go over and the silverware is nicely laid out in between two of the main sections

of the buffet, where it's a pretty central location.

And I sort of stand a healthy distance from the gentleman who's there first.

Now how to explain this, the handles of the forks, knives and spoons are all sticking

out of their containers, OK?

Now I see this gentleman pick up by the handle, one, two, three, four spoons, not realizing

that's a whole, my brother in Christ, that's a whole section of spoons.

What did he think that was all spoons?

OK, so many.

And now my mind's racing is I'm like, can I eat after this?

After I've won this, though, OK, because I'm already like, you have to have some cognitive

distance to like, go to the buffet and even at a place like Delta, it's just like, you

got to be OK with certain things.

I see him picking up that many spoons.

And now he turns to me with the light of small talk in his eyes.

Yep.

And he looks at me and I see he wants to engage.

And he goes, I can't believe how many spoons are here.

What's that?

It's all spoons.

There's some of the spoons here, now I see and I go and Jessica, I was in such a great

mood before this.

It's like, I know that could really ruin it.

Wow.

And I looked at him and I go, and are you going to touch them all?

Oh, no.

Oh, God.

Oh, God.

Oh, God.

I'm drunk.

I did.

Not a bad way for this.

Oh, God.

Casey is somewhere, she feels it like a twin of mine.

If I get cut, she gets cut too.

This hurts her so much.

I did fucking say that.

Oh, you're going to touch my mom.

God.

And he goes, I only touched the handles.

And I just look at him like, you don't want me to engage any further.

I'm going to wait for you to get the fuck out of here.

And he goes, and then he huffs and puffs away and goes, wow, well, that was unnecessary.

Oh, God.

And I'm like, oh, God.

I wanted to hear your opinion because of course I was like, I didn't want to have to

do that.

And I didn't, I had he not said a word to me.

I would have gotten my fork and knife and napkin and I would have left.

But the way he wanted to engage me like, isn't this fun?

Isn't this fun?

How many students there are?

It's not fun.

I was like, motherfucker, no, it's not fucking fun.

Get your hands out of the cutlery.

And then when he said, it's only my handles.

I can't even like address this because you went so far off our script.

Okay.

Let's take a quick break.

And Jessica, I really do want your feedback because I actually, I felt very unhinged and

I did think like, I got to check in with my community.

If you need to call me in, call me in, you know, but we'll be back in one, we'll be back

in one minute.

To hear your justice today.

Sure.

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Go ahead, I am open to feedback, sure.

So with small talk, you're always gauging your safety, really, emotionally and physically.

And we have a whole chapter in the art of small talk where we talk about pulling the

rip cord.

So as an expert small talker, I'm very good at knowing quickly who to engage with and

who not to.

Now, in saying, are you going to touch every one of them?

You engaged with a potentially insane person.

And so even though you think that we say, oh, average, it's always a chance, really the

best thing you can do is shut that down with a, now we talk about a Mona Lisa smile we

give to open ourselves up and to communicate, we're down to the cloud, smile you need.

And it is still closed teeth.

And it's more of like a, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

And it's conveying, I'm not going to fight you, but I'm not going to talk to you.

And I want this to be over before it begins, or hey, because often you just, it's very

hard to know and it's because some people who start small talk can seem unhinged, but

they're actually lovely, but it is a big deal to cross the Rubicon of strangers.

But the what he was up to was so wild.

And it's also, there's so many spoons is not like at all a casual entry into small talk.

So that's my first ding ding ding.

First, he's doing something crazy.

Secondly, he's saying something so weird and specific that that's not what, what the

only people that are safe are the ones that go, is this a nice spread or something like

that?

Or just always count on me too, you can always count on me too.

They give you very banal, non-specific things.

If anything is too specific, it's dangerous.

And we don't know how that guy would have responded.

Now you're in a small, those lounges are not big, they're small.

I'll tell you what happened next.

Now you're in an enclosure with a potential Velociraptor and now you are on safe happening.

I know.

And I think a part of what was happening for me, because I didn't look back as I heard

him huff and puff away saying, wow, and that was unnecessary.

And I didn't turn around, I just got myself aware, but I positioned myself.

The Delta Skyland LX has a section where you can sit, basically facing a wall.

Yeah.

It's sort of like a little bar, but you're just facing a wall.

Yeah.

In that wall, there was some reflective glass.

So little did he know, but I was struck, even though I wasn't facing him, I was struck

like, hey, you think, yeah, my guy in person in the mafia is not going to sit with their

back to the door unless they can see it coming.

Yeah.

And I could.

I had eyes on the back of my head.

So I was like very much so, trying to send the message like, I so don't care.

I don't even need to look at you.

That motherfucker was up and down and here and there and he there and there.

He was alone.

He was trying to start guarantee you he's trying to start something with a lot of different

people.

You were just one of the many that unfortunately bit.

And you know what though, and then I guess this is what I put to you.

I didn't want to have that interaction.

I was actually like, it was one of those things where you are sort of bearing witness to

yourself.

Like I was five seconds behind what I did.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

I had to catch up with myself.

Right.

There was a lag.

Yeah.

And so once it had come out of my mouth, I have nothing to do but to stand behind it.

No way I'm saying.

Of course.

No.

Please.

And I think that there was a part of me, Josh, a part of me that thought, yeah, I'm

the one who has to now go through the silverware and take my own silverware.

But also I did it for the community.

Well, yeah.

And that's you are a watchdog.

It's like when you see those guys with the berets on the angels on the subway.

What are they called?

The guardian angels.

I don't understand.

I don't understand.

They are by gang, I think.

But yes.

They are.

But I think they ride.

I always love to see them because I think they are volunteering.

Something's going on with them.

I will say, at one apartment I lived at on St. Mark's Place, they held angels.

They had a headquarters right next to my entrance.

And there was a bench in front of it and I sat on the bench.

I didn't know I wasn't supposed to.

And a hell's angel and a lady angel or his girlfriend came out and the way she stared

at me was so chilling.

And as they walked away, she turned around and looked right at me like, get the fuck off

our back.

I never sat.

And again, smart.

And I'm talking about different things.

Hell's Angels is in motorcycle gang and they often are contracted by the mafia to do

bad things.

Okay.

The guardian angels are the ones who wear the purple berets.

You'll sometimes see them in a purple beret and like a silk jacket.

And they are a self-appointed community group that rides the subways.

And I don't know what they do if they saw something go down, but they're there to just

kind of support.

Exactly.

It's like, we are the unarmed response teams.

Yes.

And so like you took a hit, you took a hit for the community.

I think he will think twice about touching all that cutlery.

So that is what I did.

Well, that's reflecting on all day since it happened, which is like, did I make a difference?

You know, will he continue on his, he's a Delta Sky, he's a Sky Miles member.

We know that.

Okay.

Like he's going to be interacting with many buffets.

Because once you are a Sky Miles member, like you're going, honestly, you're going to

tear apart even a little early to get just to get there.

And he was looking for, yeah, now it's interesting because yes, I, this is where people really

get confused because we say any amount of interaction and small talk is good and gives

you a dopamine hit.

That's just simply not true.

It isn't true because if you can't be too open, you always have to look alive out there.

It's true.

And I, you know, but here's the thing that the reason again, I will tell you had he shut

the fuck up and walked away, I wouldn't have said a word.

I would have been disgusted, but I wouldn't have said a word.

Now, the way he said it was with such, it was such an invitation.

It was with so much glee.

It was so on Vivaan to energy, yeah, and end the energy of like, we're going to have

a laugh.

We knew it.

Guys, Sky Club members, you know, Delta Sky Club members, we, we are going to have

a laugh.

No, that's, and that's not a normal thing to laugh at.

We really only want a small talk with normal people.

That's the truth.

We got to look for the normals.

And that's why we say like, don't smile with full teeth.

Give just a Mona Lisa smile because full teeth means you're mentally unwell.

And if you ever see someone give you full teeth, please, no.

But they aren't somebody you want to deal with.

You have to be careful.

That's, it's, it's a dangerous business.

It is.

Now, I do wonder.

The last thing I'll say about this man is when the words, it was only the handles came

out of his mouth.

Did he pause at all?

Like, did he hear, because I, again, I was a couple of seconds behind my own words.

Did he later on think like, oh, that's, they are the handles of silverware people.

Other people are going to be handling my mind.

I'm hoping that he did.

I hope that he had some reflection.

And that's all we could hope for and that, but you, yeah, I, I, listen, we're all

afraid, you know, we're all dealing with our own kind of bandwidth.

And that one's a tough one.

Dan O'Brien, most likely would have said the same thing.

And I would have, I would have become a puddle of goo of liquid magma because I do the opposite

where I, yes, and people's bad behavior simply because I don't want them to feel bad.

I would have been, if he had said that, I would have been like, I know, right?

So many spoons, like, because I am codependent.

And that's why I have a fat dog.

Okay.

I am codependent.

Wow.

Well, listen, I think it depends.

First of all, he was a man, okay.

And so that's going to play into this.

I think that when we're entering into a buffet situation, there's a social contract.

We all have to hope for, you know what I mean?

Like we have to hope.

Well, if you're Dan O'Brien, you're not even in that buffet.

I'm sure.

I'm sure.

I'm barely there myself.

I know.

But if I know travel experience, it's like, you get caught up in the, the whimsy of it all.

And it's like these calories don't count.

And I don't know what was going on with me.

But when he asked, when he said they're all spoons, no, he said they're so, so many spoons.

And I, what I am also reflecting on, because what I said was a question.

It was, and are you going to touch them all?

Well, you're going down, your reflection goes down, you know, like, and are you going

to touch them all?

It's like, and you're going to touch them all?

Question mark, maybe we're safe.

Maybe if he's just like wants to keep it up in the air, but it's not words don't matter.

Honestly, I don't want to get you to know it because it's his fault.

He started this insanity to be clear.

I wasn't looking for small talk.

I was not asking for this interaction.

I happened upon it.

Let's listen, had I just taken my oatmeal?

I would have gotten the first spoon out.

I made the first spoon when, you know, I used to, the hell's angels used to ride through

New Hampshire to the town in New Hampshire that my parents are from.

And they would stop and do their laundry at the laundromat.

During the summer, New Hampshire is a big place where people ride because there's a lot

of open road.

I, from a very young age, as young as my mom, my dad can remember, I would say, I would

look wistfully at them outside of the laundromat.

And I would say, God, I wish I was a hell's angel.

And my dad said, why?

And I said, because then I'd never be alone.

Oh, God, immediately to the child therapist, immediately, immediately.

Oh, God, I was like, what?

And he said, you know, some of these people do very bad things.

And I said, yeah, but they have each other.

But they have each other.

He was like, is it the jackets?

He could never really drill, but what is it?

But I, that is something that, for me, I'm not an only child, like, but I just was like,

no, you're not, we belong here together.

We have jackets and we know what we're up to and we know who we're hanging with on a

Saturday night and we know what bench is to sit on.

Like, that is very, like, I never joined a sorority or anything.

We didn't have them, but like, I, I get the appeal.

I constantly sent DMs to my two best friends, daughters who are both

juniors for like, bam, a rush video.

And I just, just open your minds to this.

And they're like, absolutely not.

That looks elacious.

You know, never forget it.

AC was part of a secret one to secrecy, swan to secrecy, swan to secrecy.

They were all from Long Island and they swear to secrecy.

She was the only only person I knew at NYU, no less drama school who pledged a sorority.

I mean, it was so not the thing to do there.

Did she have to wear a hood or anything?

Something, something, there was something.

She was blindfolded, walked in.

Makes sense to me like Casey did.

She could say, of course, to belong.

Well, especially, especially when, like, I mean, I remember it seeing grease and seeing the

pink ladies uniforms and being like, they had their jackets.

And if you can get a jacket out of something, great, matching jacket.

That's powerful stuff right there.

That's the building block of, yeah, that's belonging.

That's where we're wearing our jacket.

I mean, I get it, you know, I get it.

Oh, Jessica, I know it's, again, we started off this week confronting life's greatest mysteries.

And so I do believe that everything after Tuesday really honestly is not our business.

How we interact with people at buffet lines, the amount of money we have to pay for a car

we don't own.

It just isn't our business right now because we are at one foot in another world.

Well, listen, I think the other thing I reflect upon is, because here's the danger, right?

And in confronting someone like that.

And the nasty way that I did.

It wasn't that nasty, I was fine actually, but when he said, wow, wow, unnecessary.

That's scary.

Okay, walked away, huffing and puffing.

And I was like, the problem is, I could push him further into his behavior.

I could be set up now as a, you know, he could, he could need to double down to restore

his sense of self because I took it away from him.

That's right.

That's right.

You changed him.

You changed him.

I shamed him bucked.

And shame is usually not a motivator for people.

Hmm.

So is there a world in which I said, hey, there are a lot of spoons, it doesn't make a lot

of spoons.

Listen.

No, Eddie, any interaction is just not going to work with this guy.

I'm so weird about this stuff.

Could you stop touching all those?

I think like, I know it could upset.

I know you don't mean to do this at all, but like it could upset some, I know it's just

the handles, but it could upset some people if you touch all the handles.

And I know you don't mean to, that's another way it.

Of course.

And he's available.

But it will.

That is another life for thought.

That takes a lot of for thought, you know, what do you, how can we can't all live in that

moment?

No, I can't.

I can't, we have to watch just like my bill, please, like, we're going to let him go

because we're going to let him go.

And I don't even want to give you notes because thanks, Jess, he was doing something

insane.

So whatever followed afterwards is honestly not our business.

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I think you're right, Jess, and thank you for that.

I was scared to bring it to you.

I was scared of it all, you know, but I think you're absolutely right.

At this point, I've seen it all.

I really have.

I've seen every piece of small talk, you know, that has come my way.

Now, I will say this, I was inspired this week to hold some doors for people.

Hold some elevators.

And that was an inspiration that came from earlier this week from somebody we know.

And I have to tell you, nothing better.

We're never going to lose holding a door.

I'm going to tell you, Jess, and I don't, I don't mean to, this isn't a brag.

I'm a door holder.

It's who I am.

I'm an elevator door holder.

Absolutely.

I've never not held a door for someone.

Yeah, yeah, I, that's my culture.

Even if they're far away, because here's a thing, fire you talking.

Well, so I was inspired by this person who was so kind and always held doors.

And so I said, you know what?

I'm going to do the same as a tribute.

So I was in Whole Foods with BB, exhausted.

And I saw a woman kind of far away, but she kind of gave like a, do you mind?

And I, and I held it normally, I don't know if I would have even looked out to see if

anyone.

Anyway, she got in and she goes, Oh, God, what a day.

Thank you.

What a day like that.

And I go, I know, right?

It's so hard.

I pulled my calf muscle twice in the last two weeks.

And she said, barely walk.

So I want to thank you because that, I, I was in so much pain.

I just have to get to my car.

And then she goes, I know this sounds so silly, but it just makes me, makes you feel cared

for, you know, when someone holds it.

Now this is when I realized that the person who has passed to the other side was with

me in that moment because I was like, wow.

And I said, I got to, here's a good, this is great small talk that I did.

If I can pat myself in the back, I said, I got two words for you.

Take out.

And she said, you know, I was going to go home and try to cook dinner for my kids.

And I can barely.

No.

I said, honey, take out.

She goes, thank you.

And we left.

No, I felt so lifted by that.

So beautiful.

And, and I, yeah, and I don't know, I don't think I would have held it from that far

away.

But the one she needed to feel cared for.

So that was really beautiful, you know, never going to lose, except when you held the door

for that guy with all those, with that people that almost killed you and that elevator.

That was a tough one.

But, you know, I let the wrong.

Don't hold the door for a psycho.

That's, don't do that.

But, but I just think about, you know, letting people in when they drive past, you know,

when they let them into your lane, you know, it's just this is a small thing, those are

those were emerging orders.

And from, from the service we were at, and it was beautiful, you know, again, I did, that's

why I think I was so fraught with what happened today with this business, because it felt so

opposite.

It felt opposite.

It's not the mission.

It's not the mission.

Yeah.

But, but, you know, that's okay too.

Well, I'm so glad you did that, just like, you know, I'll tell you this.

I'll tell you this.

And I'm so, and you're absolutely right.

I think this is what people, maybe they do understand, maybe I need to understand it more.

Those interactions feel us for our day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They are, well, butrin.

They are so loft.

They are, you know, they really feel us.

We're not alone.

We're not alone.

We're a part of a gang.

We might not have the same, we might not have the same jacket, but wish we did.

I'd love to have some jackets for our friends.

I'm actually, I am getting us all matching journals, but that's wonderful.

But yeah, no, it's, I, I think that's true and it's, but it's so, especially in these

hard times, but I was inspired by that, by that, because somebody had lived their lives

with that in mind.

And also, the one thing that really stood out about her too was that she always gave

someone the benefit of the doubt.

Like some, like somebody, it's hard, I don't know what I could have thought about.

It was, like, you were looking for some things or you dropped something in there and said,

what benefit of the doubt?

Oh, sign on him.

I don't co-sign on him.

I honestly would love to follow him.

I'd love to do a documentary where I followed him in his life because I actually think

he's a rabble rouser and I think he's causing problems wherever he goes.

I don't, don't get it twisted.

There's something not innocent about that.

There isn't.

Right, Jess.

Yeah, there was something.

Something that, when, when my sister was bitten terribly by a dog, she had, I think it

was, like, I don't know if it was like a dog psychic or someone come over.

And the dog psychic said, this isn't about, and she had met the couple whose dog bit

her.

And she did think that they were friendly, but that there was something like you're saying,

something's off.

Well, the dog psychic told her that the man was a sexual deviant, the owner, okay, a sexual

deviant.

Very odd.

Very odd.

So, but, but as I think back into the clear three canisters, three canisters, it's a weird

thing to say and it's a weird way to behave.

It's a weird way to behave.

It's how many do you need to pick up?

You've picked up, honestly, four too many.

You picked up, you only needed to pick up one, maybe two, to understand the pattern.

That's pattern recognition.

They test children for that.

Yeah.

That's pattern.

No.

Don't get it twisted.

No, that's something's up.

So I do think he was saying strange interactions.

Yeah.

You just took the bait, unfortunately.

So that's when I say be careful because weirdos will try to get you to take the bait and

you have to be careful.

Now Dan asked, why were you hugging that Ukrainian grandfather when I arrived to pick you

up?

Why were you hugging him?

And I said, well, because we had a connection and he knocked a couple foul off, but I really

wanted to give him a hug because he recognized that I wasn't all there.

That obviously something's not quite right with me that I'm doing this to a car.

Oh, Jessica.

But he really, Dan goes, why are you hugging that man?

I said that.

That's a fear of question.

Because you are.

Because you are.

Because we're in the same gang.

We're in the same gang.

We just don't have the right same jacket on, but we're in the same gang.

Now, there's another thing I wanted to discuss with you and hear your take on.

And I know this is becoming like Emily Post, podcast, like Mr. Gunners, Oscar Wilde,

and a comedy of manners, but they're all in white playing croquet.

But I've been doing so much travel.

And there's one thing I've really noticed, which is obviously there's an etiquette to how

you get off a plane.

I don't think I even need to say that you go row by row and you always let the other

row go first.

Never in my life have I forced myself out.

And that's not what happens.

Well, it's not.

But that's how I try.

That's what I do and what I teach my children to do.

You wait until the two rows of clear in front of you and then you put a hand out to your left

to your right, saying you first, it's like when you're in church, you don't jump the

line to get communion.

You wait.

Some would argue it's a little bit like people want to get off that plane way more than

they want to get.

That tastes the way for the as way for a thing is, but yeah, you're already dehydrated.

So I have instilled this in them.

You don't rush off.

You wait.

You hold your arm out and someone's also holding their arm out.

You say, thank you so much.

That's very nice though to say, because on the end of a long journey to say, please go.

That's nice.

That's a nice way to end things.

And I also think it sets the tone for everybody behind you, which is we're all going to get

off this plane.

We are all going to get off this plane in due time.

Now, someone calls out from the back, I have a connection.

Please go ahead.

And I hope we all make that commitment to let that person go ahead.

What I'm working on for myself is calming down my nervous system in the moment where,

well, now it's my turn.

Oh, and then you got to go so fast.

You feel like you have to apologize for how long it takes for you to get your thing out

of the bin.

It's like, why are people make, like, I'm sorry, and like you're almost hurting yourself

by jacking it out and leaving things.

I had to go back and get my coat today.

It's like something comes over and it's weird, right?

It's very strange.

It's like, you take your face and every other place, it's like, I feel like I can hold my

head up high and yeah, take my time.

Take my time to do what I hate, not there.

Why is it so sad?

Up moment.

Gary, it's like this side on air lift.

You're like, I've got to get out.

I know.

I feel that.

I've never noticed that.

Oh my God.

I pull down my away and I put it down and then the bag that I'm using, my nude, you

know, carry on or whatever it's not carry on, but personal item, whatever the fuck it

is, has a side that slips right on the handle.

I know.

It's hard to do when your hands are shaking.

I know.

I put that.

So I was so fucking nervous, put it on the wrong.

It flipped around to the other side.

I put, I put, the side was just a big pocket.

I was trying to force on.

There's nothing to go on.

Okay.

And then I realized I was like, and then I turned, and the pocket's getting stuck at the

time.

Because my computer's in at an angle and I can't get it.

Oh, it's so horrible.

And finally, I just say, fuck it.

You're not going up.

You're not getting secured on.

You're just going to ride.

It's sad.

All right.

You ride it raw down, and it's knocking into things.

And you're just like, and then you're causing a side on the gateway so that people can go

by.

It's horrible.

I'm slowing the entire line up because of how unruly my situation is, you know, we should

calm down.

You need to calm down, you really need, we all need to calm down.

We don't need to calm down in that moment.

And that's my work.

I'm really going to say to myself, June, give yourself the permission that you would

give any stranger.

When I see people fumbling, I think to myself, oh, no, buddy, we're also close to the

finish line.

It's okay to take your time.

Now, I do follow somebody on a really weird account on Instagram of a woman who teaches,

it started with her teaching women how to walk in heels.

Wow.

She's the heels expert, but it what it's now expanded into.

So she does this whole thing where women in New York City, you know, they like learn how

to, you know, how you're supposed to walk like one foot in front of the other, not like

tongue, tongue, tongue, tongue.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a whole, it's very hard to do.

Yeah.

Then she's expanded it to what elegant women do.

And most of it is they do not rush, I knew it, they never rush.

They are in control.

When they sit down, they take their time getting their napkin and placing it.

They don't.

Oh, it's not.

Her hump.

Her hump down.

They take the jacket off very slowly.

It's like they're like living in like, like slow motion.

And she does like, this is what not to do, her hump, and then this is what to do glide.

And I'm like, I'm her rumping all over the place.

Jessica, I must tell you too, when I'm softly holding my hand out to say, you go, no, please

go.

You first.

I am so calm.

It's when all I got the energy, yes.

I'm sending out the energy to the rest of the community on the plane, like, let's all

take, we're all going to get off.

We're all going to get off.

But then when it's your time to shine a moment, you're going to never let it shine and

not going to get one shot.

It's an unwieldy, first of all, one handed, unwieldy move to get the suitcase down, which

like, it's very dangerous.

It's always like a tiny woman nearby, who you old woman, there's always an old woman

who could get clobbered, but I'm doing it one handed.

And I'm frantically, like, picking up everything I have, and I'm frantically, because someone

had moved my coat, so you can only imagine what that did to me.

I know.

I know.

And I've left so many things on place, like, you can come on.

Imagine.

Well, that was the other problem with today is that where my coat had been moved to was

behind.

Nothing.

So you can only imagine, you've got no choice, honestly, but to like wait till every single

person's off the plane to get your coat, which you just couldn't do.

And no one would want that for you.

But then you have to be like, excuse me, could somebody grab that coat?

I've got to work on this, and I'll report back everyone.

This is an area I want to work on.

I want to work on it too.

I think we all need to work on it.

Like, we need to give ourselves the grace we would give others.

And honestly, if someone is upset that I'm not moving fast enough, like, that's on them.

I know.

You know, if they don't know that it's a bucket of spoons, that's on them.

But we, yeah, trying to behave like a normal person, like an elegant person is something

that would be great.

And that also means like, you can't drive a car that looks like a rodeo clown has

used it and jumped over a bunch of other cars with it.

You can't love to get that.

That's a real final.

Just like I said to you, when the fuck do I, can I be done with therapy?

And you said there's more meat on the bone.

The car is the final frontier.

I told the story about the hamster in the back of the car, right?

Yeah, you did.

On the deep dive or on the deeper dive?

At that.

I'm just excited.

I remembered it at all.

Jessica, I don't know which platform it was on.

Listen, forgive me, but this is what, this is the person I don't want to be.

And I'm, and you don't want to be that person grabbing that suitcase.

Here's who I don't want to be.

Both of our cars suck.

One of them sucks a little more than the other.

Unfortunately, that's a car that I had to buy after I leased it because it was so much

money.

It wouldn't have made sense.

Poor Dan has to drive that around.

And he says he calls it the candy van.

He keeps one.

Any candy.

Oh god.

Okay.

So during the termite experience, I had to get peaches, the hamster to safety, as she

would have been, unfortunately, put the sleep by the amount of toxic gas, okay?

Part of me wish that I forgot.

But I remembered.

And so, unfortunately, I had to drive for an entire day with the hamster in the back of

my car.

And I was meeting my book agent who is a very, very fancy man.

He's a fancy man.

He is...

Oh, they're ready to put it.

He's fancy.

Yes.

This man is meticulous in his work, in his dress.

Yes.

And meticulous.

And I was meeting him for lunch.

Now, often my outfit looks normal.

I look elegant, but the inside of my car tells a different story.

So I hope to God.

Sometimes I don't valet simply because I don't want to be waiting with that person.

You'll often see me not valet.

That's not because I don't want to pay the money.

It's because I don't want anyone to see my car.

So I had conveniently, I was going to park somewhere nearby.

We're meeting at this restaurant.

But as I pulled up, I see the valet guys saying, stop, stop.

And they said, we've lost power.

So the restaurant's closed.

Oh, God, I said, oh, God, where is fancy man?

So I texted him and I said, hi, the restaurant.

And he said, yes, yes, just pick me up, I'm around the corner.

Oh, no.

What transpired is me.

I always know it's Dan.

He's an arms link the way from a baguette and some wet wipes.

So I knew I could locate a wipe, a wet wipe, I get a wet wipe, I wipe down the passenger

seat.

I'm not even thinking about the hamster at this point.

I'm wiped down the past.

God knows what's on that passenger seat, okay?

But now it's wet.

Now, is that wet wipe doesn't dry very quickly?

Like, it's wet.

It is not a dry wipe.

It is a wet wipe.

No, it's a wet wipe.

It's a wet wipe.

And you know, the leather of the seat is peeling off.

This is not good.

So I then have no choice but to take a jacket and lay it down.

That's just horrible enough, right?

I don't know which is worse, to not know what's underneath that jacket.

Exactly.

Like what?

On the wetness of a wet wipe.

Genuinely.

I'm genuinely like, I don't know.

It's the last time you've been asked to sit on a jacket.

Oh, it's horrible.

This is horrible.

So he gets in and I can see he's so lovely.

But I, how can not clock the state of this car?

This is, so yeah, it is what it is.

And I say to him, oh, God.

I'm so sorry.

Please, this is our bad car.

And he's looking at me like, what?

In his life, there is no bad car.

No car.

Yeah, that's not a thing.

And I said, there's a hamster in the back seat.

And he laughs like, oh, it's like, like an old Vodville joke.

The car's so bad, there's a hamster.

And then I said, no, no, no, no.

There actually is a hamster in the back seat.

And he turned around to see.

Peach is there, pressed her like, what?

I was hoping lifeless body pressed up against the glass.

And then I said something like, I've been leaving her

without the window, you know, I was just hoping she's dead.

Anyway, it all, so that, to me, it's like you can do all that work

and you can write a beautiful book and still, there's still,

there's always a little meat on that bone.

There's always a thing.

You know, listen, and I really do think that's also the wonderful thing

about being alive.

It's like we can still continue our journey and evolve.

You know, I think all this whole conversation is becoming

so familiar to me because I think I told you about that movie.

If I had legs, I'd kick you with Rose Byrne

and what happens with her in a hamster.

Do you want to watch that movie just for that scene?

If I told this story, if I told this story, I'm going to have to cut it.

We're too tired.

We'll never cut this out.

I'm sorry if you had to hear that twice.

That's okay.

It's a contrary story.

It's a contrary story.

It's a contrary story.

And honestly, I beg you to also give yourself the grace that I've asked for,

which is like, I listen to a lot of stories two times.

Yeah.

I love to listen to your story.

I'll listen to them all the time.

Thank you.

Like that's what I'm saying.

It's like, let's bring back storytelling as an oral art

that we can return to again and again for the same stories.

It's folk.

It's folklore.

It's like, we're going to move on.

Like, we can tell the same stories.

We really know.

It's nice too.

I told my father that he was horrified by the story.

He loves my agent.

And he said, Jess, at what point is your life going to stop being a collection of crazy stories?

Like, at what point does your life just be like a normal life that doesn't have this insane

story to go down?

Like, and I thought, yeah, that's, is that a goal?

I don't know.

It'd be a lot less interesting.

I guess.

But yeah, I would have much preferred to have a normal car that day.

Well, and by the way, this is the thing about repeated stories.

I didn't have the detail about you lying your jacket down.

I didn't tell that.

I didn't tell that.

That was a really important detail.

That's a crazy detail.

That's, if that alone was what had to happen, it would have been awful.

Horrible.

And it's like, I also know the smell that hit him.

The smell that must have hit him when he got in the car.

And then to know that a member of the, like, rodent family is with us.

It's all too much.

Jessica, we have to wrap it up.

I want to let our community know.

If you're thinking about joining us at the academy, we did host two deeper dives this week.

I know a lot of people were saying, well, why didn't you release them to the deeper dive suit and portal,

which we usually do after we do.

We do.

We don't need to do that.

Normally.

And everybody, the whole community is at buzz saying, like, what did they say?

I missed the live show.

What did they say?

It got real.

It was real.

Yeah.

But the truth is it's not anything sexual or salacious.

It was just too much information.

And we did make the decision like these two, or it's going to live live.

And, but this is the kind of thing that's happening over there.

You know, some live shows we can't release.

We don't feel they're sick of that.

Well, it's, I think that if the deep dive, the podcast has become really, obviously,

there is no, it is just us and whatever we are in.

The deeper dive is so intimate.

That's what's so beautiful about it.

It is a conversation between you and I and them.

Yeah.

But I don't have is everything.

I'm going to say this.

I don't think I don't know what other podcast has that opportunity where we're all doing the podcast.

We are all.

And of course, yes, we are all doing the show.

And the truth is, of course, there's many times in the chat where I'm like, well, these people,

all of our students, they are funnier than us.

We should be doing a podcast.

Those moments are heartbreaking.

But they're real.

But also to June, somebody shared something in the academy about a decision they'd made regarding their child

and a difficult one.

And everybody started chiming in.

You are a wonderful mother.

Like, just so you know, we got your back.

Like, it's both hilarious and also the most soothing support.

It's like the hell's angels.

The deep dive academy has jackets.

That's true.

We've got sweatshirts.

We've got hats.

If you want to join the academy, head to deepdiveacademy.com.

Use code listener for 25% off all tuition levels if you want to buy some merch.

For the deep dive, you can head on over to the deepdiveacademy.com and click on campus store

and you'll find all of our merch.

Just we have to wrap it up.

I love you.

We'll see you next week.

Love you guys.

Bye.

Let's go out of deep dive.

Let's go dive in deep.

Let's go on a deep dive.

No secrets will we keep.

It's due to the death of Govindee.

Happy, there you go.

Oh, bloody.

Let's go out of deep dive.

Let's go dive in deep.

The deep dive is produced by lemon out of media, Jessica Stinclair and June Diane Rayfield.

Special thanks to Anne Getty's for our cover art and Lenin Parham for her sweet, sweet vocals.

The best way to support us is to rate and review.

Follow the deep dive wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad-free on Amazon music with your prime membership.

Thank you.