An Interactive Q&A Experience with the Louhs

Well, good evening, everyone, and welcome to Live With The Loads.

We're going to be taking your questions tonight with regards to 1 Corinthians chapter 13.

What is many we'll call the love chapter.

So stay right with us here as we answer your questions on how to better our relationships.

Well, good evening, everyone, and a blessed lint.

I know we're on the final stretch of this lint in season.

And next week, we begin Holy Week.

That's hard to believe.

Can I just say that?

And how fast it feels like it's gone?

Absolutely.

I mean, I think for me, I mean, I know that we do these shows every week.

But I have to tell you, I feel like we're just going from one show to the next.

It seems like the time between shows are like it feels like a day.

And so, but I hope and pray that you're all enjoying this season of great lint that you're really taking an opportunity to really look at ourselves

to detach from the things that we let the flesh oftentimes once and really attaching to Christ.

We oftentimes will ask people even during confession is, you know, what is an area that I have stepped forward with?

In other words, an area that I've grown in my faith.

And then what is an area that I've actually stepped back if I looked at my faith over the year?

What have I stepped back in?

What have I kind of not kind of fallen short of and really make that purpose, especially as we're coming closer to Holy Week

and just be part of the services worship in those services.

The gospel readings in those services are just so powerful.

They really remind us of the extent of God's love.

And I know one of the things that we have been talking about over the last many weeks as we've been covering this chapter

on 1 Corinthians 13 is all about what is love.

And what's so powerful about this particular chapter is that in many ways you can insert the word God where you see the word love.

So when it talks about how love is kind, love is patient, love is gentle.

It's that God is loving. God is patient. He is caring. He's gentle towards us.

And I hope in prayer that we're taking this chapter and really making this a relationship series

but also challenging us to really look at not only our relationships with our spouse, but also just in general, how are our relationships?

What do people see when they see us who are in our sphere of influence?

I know that you've enjoyed preparing the work for this particular chapter, Roxanne, and the work that we've done in this chapter.

And you see it on a day-to-day basis.

It's always such a good reminder.

It's almost as if when you read it, it just hits you differently every single time.

You think about how to talk about some of these concepts.

And I think we throw around this scripture readily.

This is when you find in the pop sector of faith.

But when we really think about what St. Paul is telling us and asking of us,

it really hits us deeply.

And I guess I always had a question too for you, Nick, in terms of as we're journeying through Lent

and we're sort of listening to all of these aspects of what love is and how we're sort of meant to approach love in our life and reflecting Christ.

Do you feel as though when people are coming in for spiritual guidance or coming in for confession

that it is easy for people to see where they stray from this?

Or is that something that you feel like you have to lead people toward sort of revealing where they're struggling with this?

I mean, do you feel like this is something people really can see where they're struggling?

I think some, especially those who go to confession on a regular basis,

I mean, typically in our church, just because the sheer amount of people that are wanting confession,

I oftentimes tell people that every day I'm basically in confessions all day

and typically do a lot of the administrative work for our church in the evenings.

But what is interesting is people that will come to confession on a regular basis

and when I say regular, maybe every four to six to eight weeks,

because we're in a constant level of our constant communication,

we're able to really deal with those areas of their life.

But I think for a lot of people, Roxanne, it's one of those things

that unless you're willing to be vulnerable with yourself.

In other words, I think for a lot of people, they have these doors that are closed

that they don't want to enter in, that they themselves don't want to enter in.

So they live in many ways in denial of what is actually in that door,

what is in that area that I need to be addressing,

or they minimize it, they think it's not a big deal.

And oftentimes, Roxanne, I think sometimes as a church,

and when I say church, I think sometimes as clergy,

I think sometimes we water down what we're seeing people doing it.

We don't really talk a lot about the things that our people are impacted

why are facing, and then when you tell them, hey, listen,

Christ is very clear about what his desires are,

that he tells us that there will be those who will say, Lord, Lord,

and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

St. Paul says that I am working out my salvation with fear and with trembling.

I mean, these are the words of the Bible, they're not my words.

So I think hopefully what we'd like to do,

at least when I don't have to go to confession,

and my spiritual father oftentimes does this for me,

is have to be a spiritual mirror moment,

a moment in which I look at myself and say,

look at myself compared to Christ and say, where, what, you know,

what, you know, he's with me right now,

and we're worshiping, what are the things that he's saying

he Nick worked on?

And a lot of times people are only able to identify

what we oftentimes call the cough as opposed to the cold.

They can identify what they're doing, in other words,

the actual action behind that sin,

whether it be gossiping, judging,

being critical of people, negative voices about themselves,

negative voices about others,

it could be looking at things that they shouldn't be looking at,

whatever it may be, they oftentimes will begin the confession,

talking about that, and then ultimately what I oftentimes share with them

is that, okay, that's the cough, that's the symptom.

Let's get to the cold.

What is the underlying thing?

Because the devil would love, or the enemy of the world would love for us

to focus on the symptoms, not realizing that what we as society oftentimes do

is we'll self-medicate in other areas.

So if I'm having a problem with, you know, judging,

and, well, I mean, I may stop judging that particular person,

but I may find myself being prideful in another area of my life.

So it's like, what is that part of us that is holding us back?

Because I think, you know, likewise, I see a lot of, you know,

faithful people, you know, well-intended people who pride themselves in the faith,

but really running into some difficulty in terms of the implementation of

specifically this, you know, scripture, you know, to be loving

in our relationship's marriage and beyond, toward all people.

I would say that there's this real struggle, and the idea of sort of like

studying the resistance, you know, what is underneath this behavior

that I keep struggling with in this particular relationship?

You know, it's almost like, what am I over-identifying with in this other realm,

and this other dimension that is preventing me from being loving?

And I think so often that's just those deeper layers or where I feel, you know,

people maybe haven't been trained or taught to really reflect deeply on, you know,

what is our area for resistance?

And I think if we can all be, you know, more compassionate toward the self,

it's easier to ask those questions, and so often, you know,

there's so much judgment or fear or anxiety about what it reveals.

They were unwilling to do that, but, you know, emotions that are not approached

with compassion are typically not very well understood,

because it's just not safe enough to study those layers.

Right. And, you know, we talked about this last Sunday in our sermon,

comparing knowledge to wisdom, you know, the word ganosis in the Greek language

and Sophia in the Greek language, knowledge over wisdom,

and the Bible says that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

So, you know, it's so important that we recognize that a lot of us have information,

we have knowledge, and this is true also in the church, by the way,

we're not just somebody talking about academic knowledge,

but a lot of us have a lot of knowledge.

Like, so I think most people will say, yes, I need to be more kind,

I need to be passionate. We can understand that on a cognitive level,

where we struggle with, and what the church fathers do,

is they draw this correlation between, we have knowledge,

but the Bible says that we are, that wisdom, which is from God,

is the ability to make that applicable in our lives.

That we take that knowledge exactly, we process it within our soul,

and then we activate it in the world.

In the hardest moment.

In the hardest moment.

Right. So, it is so easy to be patient when we're not in a hurry.

Right.

It's so easy to be patient when no one's making a mistake.

You know, and I think, so the real issue is, you know,

sort of, you know, how do I do that when it isn't my intuitive

and natural reflective response, which is what makes it virtuous?

Right, right.

And this is so hard, I mean, this showed our whole purpose

and our, is to really take a break from 1 Corinthians 13.

We've got two more parts of 1 Corinthians 13 that we'll take in a couple of weeks,

but we really wanted to give you all an opportunity,

because we've been covering this week after week,

to simply ask relationship questions.

How, one of the things that Roxanne and I do,

we've been very blessed.

A lot of times, Bishop's will ask us to come and give retreats

to their metropolis or to their, to, to their marriage,

a couple's retreat that they may be having in their metropolis.

And we do a lot of talking about, some of the things that we've been talking with you

over the last several months on relationships.

How do we strengthen that?

We call this the very first church.

And to be quite honest with you, the church fathers talk about this

as our relationships as being the very first church.

And how little are we really taking care of that?

And so we're giving you an opportunity to ask questions.

You can call us at 1-855-237-2346.

That's 1-855-237-2346.

You have a psychologist and a priest who would love to,

just in part, our own experience, our own knowledge,

but also the teachings more importantly of the Orthodox Christian faith

to give you some guiding principles to live by and in your relationships.

But you can also email us a question at the lows at ancientfaith.com.

That's the lows at ancientfaith.com.

And we're also broadcasting our show on Ancient Faith's YouTube page

as well as their Facebook page and on the lows Facebook page as well.

So definitely leave comments there we already see people doing that.

And listen, friends, I know that sometimes when we're talking about questions

with relationships, we get this.

Sometimes as you're uncomfortable sharing that,

well, we're sharing your name with it.

Our producer, Michael Digand, who's the producer of our show,

is going to be taking the calls.

And if you would wish not to share your name to simply be totally anonymous,

we will obviously honor that.

Just let him know when you make a phone call in.

But there is an email question that came in.

I thought it was so appropriate, Roxanne.

It says to the point at which we're talking about it.

It says, because God answers to no one and literally made everything out of nothing,

how come he chose to suffer so brutally with discouraging and the cross

and go through so much pain for us?

What a timely question, first of all, as we're approaching this.

I think for a lot of us, and as we showed where the Orthodox Church is known

as the Church of the Resurrection, but I think sometimes if we're not careful

as Christians, whether you be Orthodox or non-Orthodox,

is that we can think so much about Easter because it's more comfortable for us

like fast-forwarding a movie as we're watching it because we don't like the parts

that really are difficult to see to get to the happy ending.

But the reality is that you're absolutely right.

The question that came in and the thing that I'm always impressed by is

the fact that the Church fathers and the Bible speaks about this.

I love how St. Paul says that God loves us so much that he demonstrates his love for us

that while we were still sinning, he came and he saved us.

Notice that word, and I want you to underline that word.

This is from Romans, chapter 5, verses 8, undone on this word that says,

demonstrate.

It's extraordinarily important to remember that God doesn't simply say that he loves us,

which in some other religions, that's how that's all that God is.

He's some distant person, distant God that's far away,

sitting there just waiting to judge people.

The God within Christianity is not that.

He loved us so much that he doesn't even wait for us to be good to come down to us.

He's not waiting for us, okay, Nick and Roxanne, you could be a little bit better

than I'm going to come down to earth.

Now he says that while we were still sinning, he showed us what love is by dying for us.

And that is the epitome of the gospels and the of the New Testament.

Is that God comes down to earth taking the form of a servant, not of a master,

taking the form of a servant to wash the feet of Judas, to wash the feet of the disciples,

to show us that if you want to be great, you don't simply lodge yourselves,

you serve other people, not just within your sphere, but all people,

and that you go out and extend that same level of service to other people.

And I think one of the things that is so beautiful about why Christ did that is because in Judaism,

which Christianity comes through, we would say that Christianity is actually the fulfillment

of the original faith, but for the sake of just our conversation,

you have there was sins that had to be atoned for.

You had to be restored at the time that that was through as Christ shares in the Old Testament to Moses on Mount Sinai after the Exodus.

He says to them that you are every year, are to go sacrifice a lamb and innocent lamb without any blemishes,

without any bruises on that lamb, to sacrifice them, to remind yourself of how the Christ or how God liberated you

when you were under the bondage of the Egyptians.

Well fast forward to the New Testament where we're seeing Christ at the Passover meal,

which was celebrated over multiple days by the way, friends, is that he's telling the people

that they're celebrating. He tells them that after today, there will be no need to celebrate.

The next time that you're going to celebrate that Passover will be in the kingdom of heaven,

he's referring to the disciples there. His audience is the disciples.

And what he's saying is that I am that Passover. I am that Passover lamb.

And you'll notice during Holy Week, if you're a part of the Orthodox Church,

the constant hemnography of Christ being the possible or the Passover lamb.

And so Christ takes upon the sins of this world all of our sins so that we will not only see his love,

not just in a far away, but that we see purposefully how much he loves us,

and how much he yearns for us to live our lives for him, to do what we in the Orthodox Church called theosis,

to continually describe, to be more like him, to look like him, to speak like him, to act like him,

and not just for us to be saved, but that we would also yearn to save other people.

The Bible says, for God so loved the world, it's important. He not just loved it.

He so loved it, and not just certain groups of people, by the way, he loved the entire world.

You'll never lay eyes on people, friends, that do not mean something that God himself doesn't love.

That's what I think, I think, so that we live in a world right now that sometimes,

even within the Christian Church, I remember once someone was telling me that the most polarizing place,

and the most segregated place on a Sunday morning, is oftentimes the church.

But the reality is, because we get in our little ethnic, sometimes little ghettos,

or even our even church ghettos, and these little areas that we just kind of stay within ourselves,

people like Archbishop Yaka was spoke a great deal about this.

He was a beautiful lady. He often spoke about that.

But the reality is, is how well do we look at ourselves as a church in loving that?

So when we hear 1 Corinthians 13, going back to our Bible verse today,

this is, that love is being shared here, is a verb.

It required an action like God did not feel good being on the cross,

but He loved us so much that He endured that sacrifice for us.

While we were still sitting, we didn't wait for us to be good first,

which we oftentimes sort of really struggle with, I would say, in marriage,

is, well, I'm not going to do this until they do that.

This just doesn't feel fair.

And so if we really look, really look at that first question as such a model for this chapter,

that is our model.

That is our model.

Absolutely. And the lens by which we're all looking at ourselves.

I think that the thing is too, for instance, that when we study the life of Christ,

and when we truthfully take it not just from a knowledge point,

like, I don't want the Bible or what I'm reading to simply be information,

we need it to be transformational.

So I oftentimes tell people in my church, when you're reading the Bible,

let the Bible read you.

Oftentimes, we read sometimes to defend our faith towards people, which I get.

Or we sometimes read it just so that we have information that we can use or share.

But what would it mean?

I mean, at the end of the day, the Pharisees is proof that people can know Scripture

and not appear who have a lot of knowledge, but don't have Sophia.

They don't have the wisdom.

They're not applying it.

That's why I think I'm using Scripture.

Absolutely.

He knows Scripture.

And he uses it during Holy Week.

I mean, one of the most powerful gospel messages says,

when Christ is speaking to the faithful people, he says,

you referring to the Pharisees, he says, you were like white washed tombs.

You look clean on the outside.

In other words, we act a certain way on the outside.

But you are hollow, corrupt on the inside.

And gosh, I hope to God, I never hear that phrase towards me from Christ.

That we just look a certain way on the outside.

Like, what's going on on the inside?

How is my transfer?

What is this transformation happening that happens only with Christ,

being more of him and less of me inside of me?

And so, you know, that's a perfect sort of segue into this other question

that we received through Facebook.

And the question wrote, why is love described so much here

through behaviors rather than feelings?

And, you know, this is something I think that is so commonly,

you know, thought of when we think about love,

we do not think about behaviors.

We think about feelings.

You know, falling in love.

You know, we think about, you know, the first time we laid our eyes on someone

and we fell in love.

And, you know, when St. Paul, you know, writes this, you know,

love is patient, love is kind.

You know, he is intentionally not saying love feels kind,

love feels affectionate, love feels, you know, patient.

And why is that?

Because feelings are so unstable, right?

They're reactive, they can be shaped by wounds,

they can be shaped by things having nothing to do with the person

or situation standing before us, they can be shaped by hormones,

they can be shaped by our environment,

they can be shaped by snap judgments that we've just made about something

or someone.

And so if St. Paul was defining love by feelings

and love would disappear anytime our emotions fluctuate

or anytime you're not making me feel good,

my love for you is gone.

And, you know, wounded people would be quite incapable of love.

And we know that people who have been wounded go on to be able to love

and to experience that healing.

And Christ's command to love would then be impossible, you know,

if it was dictated based on our feelings.

Instead, he grounds it in something, you know, so embodied.

He's revealing that love is not driven by feelings, you know,

but it ultimately can be used to transform our feelings

if we approach it with these behaviors.

So, you know, love may not always start off at the emotion

at the forefront in every circumstance for us

and what we're doing, we don't feel that way.

But if we approach it with the behaviors,

the end result will be the emotion of love, you know,

because we'll embody Christ and we'll share Christ

and you can't help but feel the love of Christ in those moments.

So, you know, love in this way is not, you know, just in emotion.

It was never meant to be just an emotion, you know,

but more of a regulated action, you know,

something that we approach, something that we are capable

and the bothering, embodying,

and it reflects a nervous system that's stable enough

and intentional enough to act on that love

rather than just act impulsively.

So, we have a lot of agency here that I think we often forget,

which is so helpful for us in moments

where we don't feel so loving.

So, you know, if you think, you think of just the start,

love is kind, right?

So, it may not be, I feel kind, I feel affectionate here,

but more, I move towards someone in a benevolent way anyways.

That's what love is kind means.

I'm going to choose to move toward you in a benevolent way anyways,

no matter what my feeling is.

So, on a brain level, I may be irritated, I may be tired,

I may be overstimulated, but because of love, you know,

I'm still going to attempt to express myself with warmth,

I'm going to watch my tone, I'm going to try to let my words

and the posture of my heart be benevolent.

And that's what it means to be kind, right?

It's so much deeper than, well, I just feel,

I feel like I want to be kind because you've been really kind.

You know, kindness isn't always intuitive,

especially in those really tough places,

especially when your spouse is sort of struggling

or less than their best or is acting irritable or stressed

or they're operating beyond the edge of capacity.

You might actually feel kind, but to have benevolence

in the posture of your heart toward that person

says, I'm going to restore that person gently because love is kind.

And that's really what it embodies.

Or if you think about love is not easily angered, you know,

it may not be, I never feel anger, no.

Instead, it means that I don't let anger control my behavior.

That anger is not going to dictate my behavior.

It's not going to make me defensive, blindly defensive.

It's not going to prevent me from wanting to understand you

when I don't agree with you, right?

So, love is not easily angered means I have to fully try to understand you

where you're coming from, even if I completely disagree

with the perceptions and opinions you have.

Right. And I'm just going to add to that too.

I think for a lot of times, going back to what you were asking me

the question about, you know, in confession, you know,

how do we approach it?

People are not really recognizing this.

Even in those situations where we get angry quickly,

where we're saying love is not easily angered,

it may not have anything to do with that person.

But when we don't have that level of social awareness

or self awareness, we oftentimes will just simply project a frustration

that we may be having because work wasn't going well.

I have a worry about a health issue or something

and within the family is not going well.

And then I project it on there.

So, when we talk about love is not easily angered.

It's not just about not being angry with the person who you love

who may have said something that offended you or whatever,

but also studying yourself as thing with him.

And what may be behind why am I so quick to get angry about something?

And again, I think, you know, one of the things I think

rocks in that I always felt so powerful when we talk about this,

you know, in our, at retreats and also just even on the show,

is, you know, asking ourselves what fruit is this producing in me?

In other words, when I am having a thought,

which oftentimes our thoughts become behaviors,

we have to always remember that our beliefs become behaviors that we have.

So, when you're ruminating or thinking about something

for a period of time, trust me when I tell you this,

you may not think that you're coming out with it,

but it is coming out.

And sometimes that behavior may not even be about the sort of

about that person.

It may be something that you're dealing with on the inside of it.

You haven't been able to, that you're wrestling with,

but that person, unfortunately, is going to be the,

is going to be, they walked into that.

And so, I think the key for us is when we are going through those moments

where we're just kind of ruminating and thinking,

is asking ourselves, you know, what kind of fruit

is this producing in me?

So that when I'm, so that when we're asking, you know,

love is not easily angered, is asking myself,

is this going to, if I respond this way,

what kind of fruit is this producing?

Is it going to produce good fruit or spoiled fruit?

Is it going to produce fruit of the kindness,

gentleness, loving that we're talking about,

or is it producing fruit of bitterness, anger?

But making a mistake, someone's eating fruit that you're producing,

whether it's good or bad,

and we have to always be asking that question to ourselves.

Yeah, so, you know, I think we study ourselves, right?

So, so in the moment where we feel, you know,

really quick to anger, you know,

I think we have to really study ourselves.

Hey, what's going on for me right before I got just got so angry?

What was going on for me right before I just got angry?

And hey, what I just got angry about

is that a familiar theme in my life in some way?

Does it remind me of something that's already there, right?

And so, that's the setting of ourselves.

And then we study the other person, like, hey,

who is this person outside of this moment?

Like, what do I know about their heart?

You know, where I'm able to sort of assume,

give the benefit of the doubt, perhaps,

that is not their intention, because I know their heart.

You know, and then we study the situation

what could have brought this on.

There's so much level of, like, when you see,

you know, studying of yourselves, absolutely,

when we can angry, like, that's so important.

You know, so when we think about, you know,

love keeps no record of wrong, you know?

When you think about the verb of that, you know,

people say, well, does that mean I forget the pain?

I had so-and asking me that, you know, this past week,

you know, does that mean I just forget the pain?

No, it just means that you don't build an identity

around the pain.

Your identity is not shaped by the offense.

And, you know, the brain wants to catalog that harm

for protection, and that's natural, you know,

that the brain doesn't forget things

why to protect us.

It's a viral evolution.

But love will interrupt that loop and say,

that will not define how I treat you, how I see you,

and I don't develop an identity around the offense.

Right.

And that's the difference.

And I think, too, I think we could probably speak

a little bit about this when we talk that,

with regards to this question,

but how do we not be easily angered in argument?

It's also recognizing, friends, that not everyone

is going to have the capacity to listen, hear,

or love you the way that you want to be loved.

I mean, the reality is that we're all broken people.

And so we give, we have to give grace to that

and recognize that, you know, most of the problems

that happen in relationships are unmet needs.

The Bible says in the book of Ephesians that,

why do we quarrel?

We want something that we cannot have that we cannot get.

And I think for a lot of us is that we keep expecting

a person to act in a way that they don't simply have

the capacity to do so.

So, yes, that doesn't mean that you swallow, you know,

or allow yourself to be a punching bag.

You share your thoughts, you share what's kind of going on,

but you recognize that because of the battles

that going on within themselves,

the spiritual bond that they are struggling with,

they may not, at this time, be able to love you

or to hear you or to listen to you in the way

which is going to be productive.

So, the key for you is creating both physical boundaries

so that you don't allow yourself to continuously be

in a situation where you feel neglected or abused,

but also a mental boundary.

In other words, how much space am I allowing that person

to occupy in my mind?

For a lot of you people listening on, right, friends,

and I mean, this is the most respectful way.

This is probably one of the bigger things that we deal with,

both as a psychologist and a priest,

is for a lot of us, we are allowing people

to occupy so much space in our mind that if they knew

how much space they're occupying in our mind,

they'd be so, they'd be amazed at it.

And we don't realize that that ability

of those people to take up space in our mind

is occupying bandwidth,

our bandwidth within each of us that's causing

emotional, spiritual, and physical tiredness,

and the enemy loves to work on us when we are tired.

That's oftentimes tell people that the enemy loves it.

If you look at the life of Christ,

when does the devil attempt Christ?

It's not right when he got baptized.

Right when he gets baptized, he goes into the desert

for his lent for 40 days,

and it's after those 40 days that he is tempted in the desert,

when he is weak, quote-unquote,

weak or spiritually tired or hungry,

is when the enemy is attacking.

So we have to be very careful about that,

about fatigue and allowing people to be occupiers,

if you will, of the different rooms that are in our mind.

And so I think people can get really black and white with that, right?

They are occupying in our mind, and you know,

some of them say, you know, they just refuse.

I'm not going to think about it at all.

You know, they take their space.

And then you've got people who are thinking about it

to the point where they're ruminating

and being stuck in the emotionality of what happened

and how wrong somebody was and what they've done

and it becomes a sort of rumination sequence.

You know, neither of those paths lead the healing.

You know, when we think about an offense

and we're taking time, you know, people say,

well, what are you supposed to do when you take space

or when you pause?

You know, it's thinking about something

in a way that allows healing.

So I'm really trying to understand, hey, what was underneath that upset?

What was that person needing?

Who am I and being able to meet that need?

Where's my resistance?

I'm really struggling.

I'm trying to figure out how to problem solve that.

I'm not trying to think about it in terms of who's wrong

and why I'm right.

And so the next time we come together,

my gun is loaded, I'm ready to tend to pour out

with defensiveness.

You know, that won't heal.

You know, so both ruminating and suppressing

and shutting down and refusing to think about

will neither heal.

You know, so being sort of comfortable

and to sort of go inside and study

and reflect as the church father is so talk about,

you know, study yourselves.

It is so important that we,

and we do this compassionately

without judgment towards self or others,

by the way.

I love that.

I want to just give a shout out to Dale,

to Amber, to all the different people

that are on there.

I want to get to one of them,

but I do want to just give a real quick reminder everyone.

You can call us if you have a question or comment.

You can call us at 1-855-237-2346.

That's 1-855-237-2346.

You can speak with our executive producer,

Michael DeGan, who, if you wish to be anonymous,

you totally can be.

And he'll definitely take your calls.

And we'd love to hear from you with any questions

that you may have with regards to relationships.

And also, you can also email us at

the lows at ancientfaith.com.

That's the lows L-O-U-H-S

at ancientfaith.com.

And obviously, as we're mentioning,

we're broadcasting on ancientfaiths,

YouTube page, on ancientfaiths.

Facebook page as well as the lows,

Facebook page as well.

And I get to them and here's a question that came in.

It says, if you don't have an ideal standard

for your character Christ,

how can you self-correct

meaning putting on Christ?

How do we do that?

How do we kind of correct ourselves?

Well, I mean, the Bible says that

you can't have God as the father.

One of the church fathers says,

as I'm sorry, that one of the church fathers says,

you cannot have God as the father

without having the church as the mother.

And so it is so important,

for instance, that we are active

in the house of God.

It is not only the Christ model that for us.

It blows my mind sometimes when we have people

that do not come to church

on a regular basis,

and then when they deal with these struggles

in their life,

their faith is weakened,

it doesn't take much to kind of

get them to go off the handle.

And I think for a lot of us,

I oftentimes tell people in a joking kind of way,

I was like, we're not playing Sunday school

on a Sunday morning.

We are receiving what Christ tells us.

He says, do this every time you come together,

and that is to celebrate the liturgy.

And what we take is not a symbol,

but it is the body and the blood of Christ.

It is literally

transformational in our lives.

And so to answer the question,

I would say that obviously,

number one is we put on Christ every day.

The Bible says,

put on Christ every day

so that you can stand

your ground against,

listen to this,

the schemes of the devil.

This is, by the way,

after Easter, after Posca,

this is Saint Paul's letter

to the Ephesians in which he speaks about this.

And so, pieces put on the full armor of God.

And the question we have,

as I think some of us are still,

kind of nursing off of,

the Christianity that we had when we were little kids,

you know, and I oftentimes

call this bottom shelf Christianity.

We're kind of just been the same

bottom shelf Christianity.

We're not really pushing ourselves,

we're not really challenging ourselves.

And the Bible says that when you're young,

you think like a young person, spiritually.

But when you're an adult, spiritually,

you start thinking that way.

And so the question I would ask always is,

when we talk about putting on Christ,

is it, am I at the same level,

spiritually,

that wisdom,

then the question I would, the response I would say is,

be careful.

You may be thinking that you're on this journey,

simply staying at the exact same place.

And the devil, the enemy of this world,

has no problem with cruise control Christians.

He has no problem with you being a Christian,

as long as you stay the same exact way.

What gets him is,

when you start moving forward and growing more,

and putting on Christ.

So I would say, within the church,

getting involved in prayer,

fasting, repentance,

is really engaged in the house,

by being involved in the church too.

Not just simply attending church,

but actually getting involved in the ministries

of your church,

so that you can actually experience what God is doing

in the house of God.

And more importantly, know the purpose that you have

on this earth is not to simply exist,

but to live the life that God has

and to unwrap those gifts that God has given all of us.

I think, you know,

really getting to know,

you know,

like an autobiography, right?

I mean, so, you know,

in school, you know, to write a report,

you know, on someone, we had to really read the book.

You know, they might have had some clip notes,

but, you know, we have more of a surface understanding

of who this book is about.

But I think to really know, you know,

putting on Christ, you know,

as I read about Christ,

and as I embrace the liturgy,

and, you know, I'm singing the hymns,

and all the while,

I'm applying all of that in my daily life,

in reflection to,

who am I in relation to what I'm reading?

Who am I in relation to,

to what we're singing?

Who am I in relation to all of this?

There's this constant reflection of knowing

what I'm not putting on, you know?

And it's really hard to read a line of scripture,

and not be reminded of what I'm not putting on,

like anywhere,

any day, like, you know,

every chapter and go,

oh, yeah, I've got to work on that, right?

So there's just this constant,

and I think we all need to be fed.

I think, you know, it's easy to think,

well, I've been fed,

but we require to be fed regularly.

You know, even when you read the same,

you know, if I do the Bible in one year,

and every year, I keep doing it,

every time I do it, it hits me

totally differently,

depending on the stage of life I'm in,

I'm fed in a different way,

and reminded of what more I need to be doing.

And so, and this is the beauty of the Orthodox Church,

there's so many, you know,

resources that sort of

help us stay accountable and reflective,

not to judge ourselves,

but just reflective of, you know,

where do I need Christ more?

And so I think it's not something to judge ourselves on,

but just something to go, you know,

if I'm not sure what putting on Christ

exactly feels like, you know,

every day, let me read a chapter.

Let me read a chapter, and as I read that chapter,

let that chapter read me,

and my life and spend 10 minutes in reflection

following what you've read and pray about,

and be able to sort of access that,

because it's the, you know,

the Pharisees knew that new things

very well, where they struggled

was in the reflection,

the humility of living that out,

and being able to see their struggle amidst,

you know, speaking into that knowledge versus wisdom.

Exactly, exactly.

And I'm just going to build on this too,

because this kind of gets to the point that you were just mentioning,

but going a little bit deeper,

this is a question that one of the people in the chat room mentioned,

and says, what am I supposed to be doing as a,

I'm sorry, let me read this other one,

there's another question that came into,

I'll get to that one too,

but this is a question that came in earlier from Amber.

Suggestions for people that want to participate in confession,

but struggle with trauma

that makes that level of trust

vulnerability difficult.

And I think that's,

I think we could spend a great deal of time,

Roxanne, maybe you could just speak a little bit about trauma,

because I think for a lot of us,

we really have this, we understand the word trauma,

but how well it impacts us,

and maybe you could speak a little bit about that,

and then I can kind of share some comments about,

you know, some ways that they can kind of

apply that in their life.

And so, you know,

when we've experienced trauma,

either, you know,

it's called big tea, we call it,

you know, the really big traumas in life,

abuse, you know,

loss, devastation,

or the small teas, you know,

like our basic needs,

not being met as children.

And these affect us in profound ways.

And to adapt,

in those circumstances,

we all have parts of ourselves

that are born in those situations

in order to help us survive

that struggle,

and whatever ways that we need to survive.

And so those,

we'll call them protective parts,

sort of come on, you know,

in relation to sort of helping us survive.

And if we haven't processed those traumas

and begun healing from those traumas,

the struggle is,

those protective parts are working so hard

that they take on such extreme roles

that we sometimes lose access

to the sort of core central parts

of who we are, you know,

the vulnerable,

the curious, the comfortable,

the person who can connect

with clarity, who has awareness of things.

That part of us is sort of like

far, far, far away,

not within our reach.

And so it's really hard to step into confession

or to step into therapy

or to step in any of these places

that are sort of asking about the part of us

or far away because what we often need

as a priest or as a counselor

is that protective part.

And so if that person struggles to know how to sort of connect

to you in a way that helps you feel safe

and after that protective part to sort of

step aside to let someone in,

it can be hard to get to the core.

And so if there's been a trauma,

you know,

counseling is very, very necessary

and needed to help heal from that

so that what you're able to come in

and talk about with your spiritual father

is parts of your true self.

And so it's great to sort of have counseling

and be seeing your spiritual father

at the same time.

Absolutely.

You know, so that you have the sort of place

of healing to understand what is happening, you know,

and to be able to walk through that

in a very healing and safe place

and to be able to sort of talk about the sort of crises

in our faith that we may be experiencing

as a result of those trials

and to learn how to think about them

as a whole.

And healing from trauma, you know,

trauma's just a really big wound.

And, you know,

it's been said that the scar tissue

gets formed over the wound

is rigid, you know.

It lacks the nerve impulses,

the neural,

the nerves that the rest of our skin has.

It's not as flexible as our skin.

So yes, it's hardened, but for a reason

it's trying to protect something.

So we really have to be careful

to be traumatizing when we're not ready.

And, you know,

and so there are barriers there for a reason,

but counseling

and walking through things

with our spiritual father, you know,

simultaneously is a beautiful thing.

Right. And there's a listing

by the way, friends, on the assembly

of canonical orthodox bishops' website

has a list of providers,

mental health providers,

that are available from, so you have

an orthodox Christian perspective

who are therapists,

on a rock stands, obviously, on that list.

But there are many other really,

really amazing people

who that you can have access to

with regards to counseling and psychologist

to go further to, I think, you know,

one of the things I would encourage people,

especially if you've experienced trauma

and being vulnerable, is to set up a meeting

with your priest, just explain that to them.

Not necessarily go for confession,

but to simply have a meeting.

I can't tell you how often people will

just want to talk to you about what is confession.

Like, let me walk me through that

so that I can really understand what to expect.

And then I oftentimes will tell them,

you know, when you come in next time,

if you feel comfortable, you know,

comfortable in the sense that if you feel like

that this is where you, you know,

in the next couple of weeks to come in for confession,

is, you know, bring a list.

Bring a list of things like start studying yourself

in a greater way, almost journal

the things that you're struggling with,

and then you come in there and talking about them,

and being vulnerable,

should be on that list.

And really sharing that with them,

that I'm very uncomfortable.

The situation is not really normal for me.

I've never really been in that situation.

You know, help me father

to feel more comfortable

other things that you would suggest that we do.

Because I think one of the things is that

you have to recognize is just like a father

has a relationship with his children.

So also, as the spiritual father

need to have a relationship with his children.

And if you even want to go to that point of confession,

it's just to meet with him.

To really kind of get to know him,

and really to explain to him,

really, you know, what his confession,

what the experience looks like,

obviously the sacredness of the sacrament,

and the, we call it the misdeedion,

the mystery of it,

and the holiness of it,

but also just kind of to walk you through that,

I think even just even studying the space

by which where you're going to be kneeling,

is so important.

And so much more comfortable for you.

So I definitely would recommend doing that as well.

In addition to what Roxanne was sharing.

And I know Roxanne, you know,

there was another question that was here

that I thought was quite interesting.

She says, what am I supposed to be doing as a catacumin

in this land?

I feel I'm not doing enough of anything

outside of morning and night prayers

and reading scripture.

Well, I mean, I think, first of all,

you know, I want you to kind of be very careful

that we're not,

that we're not just simply doing,

and I'm not saying this as you,

but maybe someone who's listening,

maybe doing this,

is be careful that we're not making a to-do list

of what we need to be doing during the land.

That kind of misses the point.

Again, we're looking for a transformation of the heart.

We're yearning for us to be much more prayerful,

but not only in my prayerful,

but much more, not just with my words,

with words,

but connecting in with my heart.

Really connecting in that prayerful.

You know, God, I love this prayer.

It says, disturb my soul.

Disturb my soul so that I,

that I never allow myself to be happy

with where I'm at.

In other words, to disturb it.

And I think that that's what we're really asking

is God, disturb my soul,

because I don't want my soul to be sleeping.

And you can easily be sleeping.

Your soul could be sleeping.

If your mind has a lot of knowledge,

because the enemy, I said,

you'd be filled with a lot of Bible knowledge

or church knowledge,

but with no application to it.

So be careful on that.

So one of the things I would encourage you is

make sure that you're praying

from your heart and praying the prayers

that are assigned by your spiritual father

if he gives you a prayer rule.

Definitely be following that.

I think a big thing too is,

you know, obviously we're talking about,

you know, lent in many ways

as a preparation period initially.

A preparation period for baptism

that they would have at Easter at Pascha.

So the question is,

am I preparing myself

to also experience my own resurrection?

Because resurrection,

the resurrection of Christ was not just

an event in our lives.

It's an invitation to change our lives, right?

And so because of that,

my encouragement for you would be,

is studying yourself and looking at the areas

that you know

when you study yourself,

and God willing to give a priest to help you with this,

that are not just the symptoms,

but are the underlying cold,

the underlying areas of my life

that I am struggling with,

that God would be saying,

hey, stop doing this.

All of us should have a list

of the stop doing list

that we need to be doing.

And then we all should have the start doing list.

You know, the things that we need to be doing,

more of,

not out of obligation,

but because we want to purify this heart,

as the Bible says,

a clean heart,

oh God, renew a right spirit within me,

create a me and a clean heart, oh God,

and renew a right spirit within me.

So in order for me to do that,

I've got to know what are my crosses.

I mean, it's hard to die if you don't know what you're dying from.

You know, it's hard to be saved

to experience the salvation

through the resurrection of Christ.

If you don't know what you're being saved from,

so I really encourage you to really look at that area,

study yourselves,

do those questions.

What am I doing right now that God is saying,

hey, stop doing this.

And what is God saying to me right now to start doing?

And, you know, on that note, as you're, you know,

contemplating that question,

I think one of the greatest gifts

that we can give our soul during Lend

is not more doing,

but it's less doing.

You know, seeking the stillness,

seeking the solitude.

I mean, if we just look at Christ's life,

how often did he step away

from all the ministry,

all the serving,

people were asking, more miracles,

we're teaching, you know, crowds,

and he would step away

to restore,

to reconnect with the Father,

and to seek his spiritual renewal.

I find it interesting

that he wasn't seeking to do that,

amidst all of that, right?

And so, you know,

and he taught the disciples to do the same.

He stepped away before big decisions.

He stepped away,

when he was dealing with, you know,

emotional things.

He stepped away after massive miracles.

And so I think, you know, so often,

we seek to do more.

And I think oftentimes in Lend,

we value less, you know,

the doing less,

and seeking that stillness.

I love this question that just came in.

How can First Corinthians 13 be of help to those

who are codependent in a relationship?

Okay, so that's a great question.

And, you know, I think so often,

when we think about, you know,

loving someone,

it's without boundaries.

And we think if I have compassion

for a struggle,

if I can see who you are,

in this struggle,

then that means I'm not allowed

to have a boundary in that struggle.

And it's quite the opposite.

You know, you know,

if a horse is down, you know,

and they're struggling,

you know, it may be,

I'm yelling at it,

either to get up,

or I'm allowing it to lay down.

And I'm just going to be codependent with that,

you know, sort of enabling that process.

You know, it's looking at the horse saying,

I need you to stand up,

but why are you down?

You know, I'm able to love it in those moments,

to have compassion for that struggle,

not to judge it for being down,

to sort of remind it of its resources,

help it understand its resistance.

But at the end of the day,

I am asking it to stand up,

and to walk with me.

In relationship,

we have boundaries over what is acceptable,

what's appropriate, what is healthy.

And you know, it's the same way,

if we were dealing with a child,

you know, who's throwing a major tantrum.

You know, we don't necessarily give in to what they're asking,

but we can certainly understand the struggle beneath their tantrum,

beneath their upset,

and completely get why they're upset.

And at the same time,

this isn't going to be the day that we give you what you're asking for.

And so I think that the idea of codependence is really that,

you know, I'm so dependent on you,

and your well-being, you know,

that I am unable to hold a boundary

that makes you uncomfortable.

You know, I think we have to be really comfortable

with making our spouse uncomfortable.

In any situation for it to be healthy,

for it to thrive, you know,

and yet we also can't take control

of those changes that we're asking them to make.

You know, you know, in Peter,

we read about, you know, husbands are changed by watching

the grace of their wives, you know.

Not only because the wife, you know,

took his hand and made him change or said,

everything's dependent on you, I'm not okay if you're not okay.

No, she just led in ways that were

in right relationship to Christ.

You know, she lived her life,

but she had compassion for him, she had yelling at him,

but she just led her life.

And the Bible says,

he's changed by that, you know.

So ultimately, we have to let go of trying to change people,

but also allowing our well-being to be centered on somebody else's,

you know, well-being.

But we also don't want to be completely disconnected

and not care that they're not doing well.

So there's this beautiful synergy

of having immense compassion for somebody's struggle,

but also at the same time,

not taking ownership for that struggle

or demanding that it change,

but having the boundary that this is where I'm at.

And a good boundary does not demand that anybody do anything else.

It just tells you what I'm going to do in relation to that, right?

It tells you where my line is,

what I'm going to do.

I'm not forcing anything on anyone else.

Right.

So loving to be loving doesn't mean we have no boundaries

and we have no expectations,

but it doesn't force change.

Right, and I think the only thing I would add to that is,

is expand your village.

I think for a lot of times when you're in this type of relationship,

because especially that codependency has been going on for a long time,

getting some help, having a meeting with your parish priest,

really kind of sharing the dynamics of what that looks like,

are going to be so helpful for you.

One of the things that I think people need to realize is,

one of the tools that the enemy loves for us to do

is to be and operate in solitude.

And what I mean by that is to deal with our issues,

even as a couple by ourselves,

when Adam and Eve took of the forbidden fruit,

what do they do?

They ran and they hid in solitude.

And I think for a lot of us either through pride

or really just not really knowing what to do,

we're trying to solve the problem amongst the two people

that are in that relationship,

not realizing that because of that codependency that you're mentioning,

oftentimes we're the last people that are going to be able to resolve that.

That's why that vicious cycle continues over and over again.

So I definitely would encourage you to make sure that you're, you know,

meeting with a spiritual father and a priest,

reminding each other that you're not each other's therapist,

you're not each other's priest.

You are co-marters in this marriage.

You are in this, this martyrdom marriage where you're,

you're dying myself to live for Roxanne and vice versa.

And ultimately the two of us are living for Christ

and challenging ourselves to do that.

But expanding that village to help you to do that is so important.

And Roxanne, I want to make sure we get to this show,

this question before we end the show.

And that is what questions should we be,

thanks by the way to the people that are asking these questions,

Jennifer's asking this question.

What questions should we be asking ourselves so that we can recognize

what really, what is really going on in our hearts

and go deeper than mere bottom shelf Christianity?

You know, I think most of the time, you know,

when we're needing to study ourselves,

we need to remember, you know, life isn't about,

our reactions are not about what happens to us.

They are about what happens inside of us

as a result of what happens to us.

Okay, so let me say that again.

Our reactions come from what happens inside of us

as a result of what is happening to us.

And so most situations are really just, you know, triggers

for the process that then happens inside of us.

And, you know, if a small trigger for you has a large reaction,

you know, your nervous system is usually, you know,

assessing, is this rejection?

Am I being disrespected?

Am I unsafe?

Am I not valued?

You know, is this an unfair situation?

Do I not deserve this?

You know, you know, even a basic emotional like anger usually means

I need something or I deserve something.

There was a value that was missed, right?

And so I think we have to sort of tolerate the discomfort

a little bit to kind of look within and go,

hey, what's happening in me as a result of this situation?

What is stirring within me?

What's an emotion I notice?

What thoughts and meaning am I attaching to that emotion?

And then what is that stirring within me?

What is it urging within me?

Like, is that a fruit of the Holy Spirit?

Like, that's the process where we take something outside of us.

We come on the inside and we study what happens

and then what it's producing.

It's this like full circle moment where I'm going from,

yeah, bottom shelf Christianity is going this happened.

Okay, I'm just not going to think about it.

I'm going to try to, to will myself to be a good Christian here.

No, if we don't come on the inside and study what is happening within,

we are not taking our thoughts captive and making them

would be the end to Christ.

We're not transforming anything.

We're not attempting to understand who we are.

And in feelings that we don't approach that we just suppress,

they don't just go away.

They actually just conquer us in more covert ways.

And so we have to be really willing to step in

as we would be talking to a suffering child.

That's the way we have to talk to ourselves.

What is this producing within me?

How am I thinking about this?

What meaning have I just attached to it?

What do I feel urged to do now?

Like, is that the fruits of the Holy Spirit?

Like, if I go back and read Galatians 5, does it sound like that?

Okay, no.

Okay, so what do I have to change within me?

How do I, how do I need to think about this in a way that does

produce Galatians 5?

Right?

And so there's this, there's a lot.

And this is what, this is what counseling is, right?

This is what therapy is.

It's not here to make you happy.

I'm here to make you holy.

Right?

That's sort of the goal, you know, for any Christian going to

counseling by the way, it's not just to make you, you know,

you know, happy.

It's to go, how can I be more holy in the way I'm experiencing this?

And so, yes, we have to study ourselves in any reaction we have.

And a really good sign and a time to study yourself.

Is anytime you have a really big emotion.

Anytime you just went from like, okay, to not okay, you know,

what just happened?

What is going on inside me?

And if you've never journaled before, I really recommend journaling.

Journaling is a powerful way to sort of identify how we're thinking about things,

the meaning we're attaching to things, where I'm heading with this thing.

And by the way, that produces your prayer life too.

Now I know what I need to be praying for because I've just identified it.

I've put words on it.

And then by the way, when I can look back at my journals,

God gets the glory because I'm able to look back and see all the ways God was present

in those things that I was so overcome by.

I see how He healed it.

So then when you wake up in the morning and you say, you know,

you give glory to God, it's not just giving glory to God in a road way.

It's going, I can see where you had where you just were so present in this way.

In my life, when I can look back at my journaling, right?

And all of my prayers, I can see all the way.

So you move through that space.

And so, you know, this is sort of where our faith comes alive.

It's in these moments where it came on the inside.

I wasn't willing, I wasn't willing myself to just be this perfect Christian, right?

In which way the way doesn't exist.

And no matter how much we know, we still stumble, right?

Which is why I say impulses.

Why I keep doing the thing that I keep trying to stop doing it.

And I keep doing it.

Because we need that constant sort of renewal, that constant restoration,

that constant feeding, and that constant replenishment.

But that comes from studying ourselves.

So I hope that helps.

There are so many questions that we did not get to on here, guys.

And I don't know how this hour went by so fast.

It went by really fast.

I think we definitely, maybe at the end of doing the last two of this series,

we can do another Q&A.

But we just really wanted to take this opportunity before,

holy week, to wish all of you a blessed Pascha.

You know, I know that all of us, you know, are dealing with

or maybe experiencing something in our hearts right now,

or maybe we know people that are going through difficult times.

We hope and pray that this show not only empowers you,

but also gives you some tools to also help other people.

We have to remember this that we're not living on this or just for ourselves

or just for our own family.

God is calling us to share His light with the world.

And so I'm encouraging all of you that as you're celebrating this Easter season,

this Pascha season, that you're looking for that one person,

that one person that you could be a better witness to,

that one person that you could be inviting to your church,

and that one person that may need to hear from you,

how amazing God is and how much God loves them.

As always, we want to thank Michael Degand for producing tonight's show

and all the great comments that came in.

It was so beautiful to see so many people leaving comments on ancient pages,

YouTube pages, as well as our The Lowes Facebook page.

I definitely encourage all of you to definitely subscribe to our daily

inspirational messages that come out every single morning at 7 a.m. Eastern time.

You can do so by going to our website at TheLowes.com.

That's L-O-U-H-S.com.

And then scroll down and just put and push subscribe and just simply put in your email address.

And also you'll be able to receive our daily, our weekly,

actually, sermons that we produce.

A lot of what you hear on our show are things that we work much like that same content

that goes into our sermons.

So definitely hang up after the, after you finish our show tonight,

definitely go onto our YouTube page, the Lowes YouTube page.

And please subscribe to the Lowes YouTube page.

It helps with the algorithms.

It helps to share our show with other people.

We just want to Roxanne.

And I just simply want to serve Christ.

That's not the end of the day.

It's what we're doing.

We don't need it for ourselves.

But just using the gifts that God has given us as a present psychologist

to try to make it some small way a difference into this world.

So God bless you, everyone.

Have a blessed Pasca and say strong in your walk of faith.

Father Neck and Dr. Roxanne are the authors of their books renewing you.

A priest, a psychologist and a plan.

And six hours, seven lessons.

How Christ Light transcends our darkness.

Which can be purchased at store.AncientFace.com.

Their daily inspirational messages can be found at the Lowes.com slash subscribe.

Be sure also to search for the Lowes on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

Live with the Lowes is a listener supported presentation of Ancient Faith Radio.

Thank you.